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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
September 28 2011 03:28 GMT
#5
/in it to win it.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 01 2011 13:44 GMT
#73
Game name needs to be changed to "Watch Foolishness Masturbate Play With Himself"
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 06 2011 23:51 GMT
#123
Let's get this bitch started. I'm tired of being dead.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 08 2011 23:32 GMT
#148
On October 09 2011 05:06 Kavdragon wrote:
On that topic,

Show nested quote +
On August 13 2011 09:03 flamewheel wrote:
On August 13 2011 09:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On August 13 2011 08:55 flamewheel wrote:
GMarshal I'll lend you my icon when you make Pony Mafia.

This just in, FW admits his icon is my little pony!

Did I every deny it? I simply said girls love ponies.


Holy Check! FW is a girl? I will always refer to you as a she now, FW.


If that' s the case the image of Flamewheel playing with herself in this game has most certainly changed. For the better.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 02:15 GMT
#217
Let's get this thing going. I wanna make shit go boom.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 11:44 GMT
#257
If you call me getting lynched on day 1 reasonably successful then ya it was reasonably successful.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 14:36 GMT
#263
Attempting to assign value and picking order to roles is useless. Scum will take what they want in any order that they want. RoLs picking order did not work in PYP 1 it won't work here.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 15:59 GMT
#280
On October 13 2011 00:18 chaoser wrote:
Show nested quote +
One problem with "accountability" guidelines from previous PYP games has been that a scum will draft a defensive role near the top and then bury the power role near the bottom of the draft, where its identity is hidden.


This is made worse by the fact that there are different mafia factions in this game so things get even more confusing with them all going for the same roles and possibly same strats and soon you'll have to deal with the mess that happened in PYP2 where a traitor said someone picked his role in the top 5 and we ended up losing two days to that alone except this time it will probably be worse when we try to control the role list.

Sandroba hits the nail on the head. This game is about outlasting, not about trying to win the game as early as possible as town. The longer the game goes on, the more mafia will have to start worrying about each other and the more information and time town has to figure everything out. Let the mafia deal with fighting over roles, we should focus on getting as many protective roles as possible. Look at how LOTR played out: Two medics basically bought town enough time to lynch the last three mafia. I'd say protective roles are #1 picks and then investigative roles and then KP roles. Mafia will probably be going for as many KP as possible to try to overcome our defensive roles if we play like this so we can just lynch anyone suspicious that also has KP.

That was me. I wasn't a traitor. I was vanilla townie. We were supposed to follow some daft pick order. I was #6. Somebody else took the power I was supposed to pick. You all lynched me to prove I wasn't lying. So I'm not playing that game again. Lists don't work. Picking in a particular order doesn't work. Assigning values to roles doesn't work. There are 3 different scum factions that are already working on choosing roles that will compliment each other. What makes you guys think there is any thing we can do to ensure roles are denied to the scum teams? Oh I know. Scum teams put out lists of roles and who should take them when.
This is madness.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 16:21 GMT
#283
On October 13 2011 01:12 sandroba wrote:
Jackal, my plan involves no lists or assignments, are you okay supporting it?

Yours isn't a plan as much as it's common sense.

On October 13 2011 01:12 chaoser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 00:59 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 13 2011 00:18 chaoser wrote:
One problem with "accountability" guidelines from previous PYP games has been that a scum will draft a defensive role near the top and then bury the power role near the bottom of the draft, where its identity is hidden.


This is made worse by the fact that there are different mafia factions in this game so things get even more confusing with them all going for the same roles and possibly same strats and soon you'll have to deal with the mess that happened in PYP2 where a traitor said someone picked his role in the top 5 and we ended up losing two days to that alone except this time it will probably be worse when we try to control the role list.

Sandroba hits the nail on the head. This game is about outlasting, not about trying to win the game as early as possible as town. The longer the game goes on, the more mafia will have to start worrying about each other and the more information and time town has to figure everything out. Let the mafia deal with fighting over roles, we should focus on getting as many protective roles as possible. Look at how LOTR played out: Two medics basically bought town enough time to lynch the last three mafia. I'd say protective roles are #1 picks and then investigative roles and then KP roles. Mafia will probably be going for as many KP as possible to try to overcome our defensive roles if we play like this so we can just lynch anyone suspicious that also has KP.

That was me. I wasn't a traitor. I was vanilla townie. We were supposed to follow some daft pick order. I was #6. Somebody else took the power I was supposed to pick. You all lynched me to prove I wasn't lying. So I'm not playing that game again. Lists don't work. Picking in a particular order doesn't work. Assigning values to roles doesn't work. There are 3 different scum factions that are already working on choosing roles that will compliment each other. What makes you guys think there is any thing we can do to ensure roles are denied to the scum teams? Oh I know. Scum teams put out lists of roles and who should take them when.
This is madness.


Different game dude, talking about PYP2. You weren't in that game

Sorry then. Sounds like the same type of scenario though. A list is put forth. Scum shit all over it.

Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 17:04 GMT
#287
On October 13 2011 01:44 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 01:21 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 13 2011 01:12 sandroba wrote:
Jackal, my plan involves no lists or assignments, are you okay supporting it?

Yours isn't a plan as much as it's common sense.

On October 13 2011 01:12 chaoser wrote:
On October 13 2011 00:59 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 13 2011 00:18 chaoser wrote:
One problem with "accountability" guidelines from previous PYP games has been that a scum will draft a defensive role near the top and then bury the power role near the bottom of the draft, where its identity is hidden.


This is made worse by the fact that there are different mafia factions in this game so things get even more confusing with them all going for the same roles and possibly same strats and soon you'll have to deal with the mess that happened in PYP2 where a traitor said someone picked his role in the top 5 and we ended up losing two days to that alone except this time it will probably be worse when we try to control the role list.

Sandroba hits the nail on the head. This game is about outlasting, not about trying to win the game as early as possible as town. The longer the game goes on, the more mafia will have to start worrying about each other and the more information and time town has to figure everything out. Let the mafia deal with fighting over roles, we should focus on getting as many protective roles as possible. Look at how LOTR played out: Two medics basically bought town enough time to lynch the last three mafia. I'd say protective roles are #1 picks and then investigative roles and then KP roles. Mafia will probably be going for as many KP as possible to try to overcome our defensive roles if we play like this so we can just lynch anyone suspicious that also has KP.

That was me. I wasn't a traitor. I was vanilla townie. We were supposed to follow some daft pick order. I was #6. Somebody else took the power I was supposed to pick. You all lynched me to prove I wasn't lying. So I'm not playing that game again. Lists don't work. Picking in a particular order doesn't work. Assigning values to roles doesn't work. There are 3 different scum factions that are already working on choosing roles that will compliment each other. What makes you guys think there is any thing we can do to ensure roles are denied to the scum teams? Oh I know. Scum teams put out lists of roles and who should take them when.
This is madness.


Different game dude, talking about PYP2. You weren't in that game

Sorry then. Sounds like the same type of scenario though. A list is put forth. Scum shit all over it.


Okay, so you will follow it then? You cannot pick kp roles (exception is jack/capitalist) on the first 20 picks and no claiming "I was denying shit" if you get found having a role you were not supposed to have.

I'm not agreeing to follow or not follow anything. Last PYP game I did and it just got me dead.
The problem is even if everybody says they will half of them are lying. And that doesn't include scum. I will pick what I believe to still be available at the position I get placed in the draft.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 17:26 GMT
#291
On October 13 2011 02:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
Can someone explain to me how Assassin is a good role?

In order to kill someone as the Assassin you need their role, alignment, and in the case of mafia, family.

How the hell does one determine a scum member's family?

If your scum buddies have DT roles it's a great role to have.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 17:28 GMT
#292
On October 13 2011 02:26 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 01:27 JimboSilvers wrote:
Just a note for IF we decide that assigning a few roles to the top is necessary:
Thief should be forced to steal the most imba mafia role immediately, as this will both confirm that he is thief, that thief can't be used again, and whether or not the person who was supposed to pick the imba role actually picked it or not.

That being said, I'm still mulling over the possible advantages of assigning the top 4-5 spots. I originally thought that it was a bad idea, because mafia will likely deny themselves powerful combinations, but it might be a good idea to try to assign a role that is really imba by itself. (The part that I'm still looking over is whether or not there is actually a role that powerful by itself that we need to assign it.)


This is very very smart. I fully agree with having thief immediately swipe, as it confirms two dangerous roles at once.

The two roles that are imba on their own merits are: Inventor, Assassin. Inventor can give his teammates anything, Assassin has infinite immediate hidden kills. Thief and Roleswapper are assigned only by virtue of keeping track on the first two.

Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 02:04 Jackal58 wrote:
I'm not agreeing to follow or not follow anything. Last PYP game I did and it just got me dead.
The problem is even if everybody says they will half of them are lying. And that doesn't include scum. I will pick what I believe to still be available at the position I get placed in the draft.


Cool. We'll see you on Day 1, as I guess there is no need for you to participate in the next two days.

Some of us are trying to use the in game mechanics to get town on the best possible footing, some players are not. Which one are you?

Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 01:48 sandroba wrote:
NOT denying is the superior denying strategy this game. Mafia is not guaranteed to get what they want unless they get first pick AND the first picks already have a lot of focus on them. Letting mafia fight over the best roles for them will ensure we end up with several vanilla mafia. If we deny mafia the best roles they might pick roles town would want and they would be denying town instead.
DO NOT DENY.


This doesn't make any sense. We're discussing this tonight on skype as I assure you, this makes no sense. Assigning several dangerous picks to the top slots actually increases the likelihood of mafia overlapping on the other pro-mafia roles


As an aside, Mafia will not draft town roles in an effort to deny town, as that puts them at a severe disadvantage to the other mafia teams.

Mafia Team A takes powerful town roles
Mafia Team B takes powerful mafia roles


Guess which team is more likely to win?

I'm the realist that has watched scum and dumb townies shit up this same plan twice before. You immune to scummies and dummies?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 18:07 GMT
#298
On October 13 2011 02:33 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 02:28 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 13 2011 02:26 Radfield wrote:
On October 13 2011 01:27 JimboSilvers wrote:
Just a note for IF we decide that assigning a few roles to the top is necessary:
Thief should be forced to steal the most imba mafia role immediately, as this will both confirm that he is thief, that thief can't be used again, and whether or not the person who was supposed to pick the imba role actually picked it or not.

That being said, I'm still mulling over the possible advantages of assigning the top 4-5 spots. I originally thought that it was a bad idea, because mafia will likely deny themselves powerful combinations, but it might be a good idea to try to assign a role that is really imba by itself. (The part that I'm still looking over is whether or not there is actually a role that powerful by itself that we need to assign it.)


This is very very smart. I fully agree with having thief immediately swipe, as it confirms two dangerous roles at once.

The two roles that are imba on their own merits are: Inventor, Assassin. Inventor can give his teammates anything, Assassin has infinite immediate hidden kills. Thief and Roleswapper are assigned only by virtue of keeping track on the first two.

On October 13 2011 02:04 Jackal58 wrote:
I'm not agreeing to follow or not follow anything. Last PYP game I did and it just got me dead.
The problem is even if everybody says they will half of them are lying. And that doesn't include scum. I will pick what I believe to still be available at the position I get placed in the draft.


Cool. We'll see you on Day 1, as I guess there is no need for you to participate in the next two days.

Some of us are trying to use the in game mechanics to get town on the best possible footing, some players are not. Which one are you?

On October 13 2011 01:48 sandroba wrote:
NOT denying is the superior denying strategy this game. Mafia is not guaranteed to get what they want unless they get first pick AND the first picks already have a lot of focus on them. Letting mafia fight over the best roles for them will ensure we end up with several vanilla mafia. If we deny mafia the best roles they might pick roles town would want and they would be denying town instead.
DO NOT DENY.


This doesn't make any sense. We're discussing this tonight on skype as I assure you, this makes no sense. Assigning several dangerous picks to the top slots actually increases the likelihood of mafia overlapping on the other pro-mafia roles


As an aside, Mafia will not draft town roles in an effort to deny town, as that puts them at a severe disadvantage to the other mafia teams.

Mafia Team A takes powerful town roles
Mafia Team B takes powerful mafia roles


Guess which team is more likely to win?

I'm the realist that has watched scum and dumb townies shit up this same plan twice before. You immune to scummies and dummies?



The thing is Jackal, NOT having a plan doesn't put us on any better footing. We still have all the potential downside, but we lose all our potential upside. Scummies and dummies can still shit things up, only we just have plain LESS info.

My challenge to you: Give me a scenario involving my pick-assignment plan that is worse than if we had done no pick assignment at all. I'm not saying there isn't one, but I can't see it right now. Prove me wrong.

That's my point. There is no plan that is going to work. There are 5 or 6 people discussing the merits of various plans. There are another 20 or so people that are going to do whatever they want to. Some scum. Some town. My challenge to you - Get everybody to sign on to your plan. Or any plan. And then remain calm as the game progresses and you realize 80% of the people that said "great idea let's do it" didn't. I'm not saying your plan is bad. I'm not saying anybodies plan is bad. I'm saying it's not going to work because most people aren't going to follow it. It creates a scenario of false expectations that gets townies lynched.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 19:11 GMT
#316
On October 13 2011 03:21 Radfield wrote:
This means that a player tried to take JOAT at 5, but it was already taken. We should not have had to wait for his flip, as he should have immediately blew the whistle that his role was swiped by a player above him. Really it would be a null tell though, as JOAT is a pro-town choice(and coveted), and someone may have wanted it for themselves. Cops would look into the top 4 slots, and the discovered JOAT would be placed under more scrutiny. If the role that was not taken(assassin or Inventor or whatever) starts being used for evil, then we can lynch the JOAT given the likelihood that he is scum and let the role slip down. Or not, either way we have important information.

Assuming we had no assignment list though, this is a non-starter. So what if the player at 5 flips VT, it just means he doubled up with someone else. We learn nothing in this situation.

Honestly, I would say neither option has a distinct option in this scenario. Certainly does not fit the bill of a situation where no role allocation is better than a bit of role allocation.

That scenario is what got me lynched day 1 as a townie in PYP 1. I followed the plan. My supposed choice was already taken. I blew the whistle and got lynched. The 4 above me were never looked at again. Town lost. So forgive me if I have no faith in your plan.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 20:08 GMT
#324
So how are you going to compel people to reveal what their draft pick number is?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 12 2011 20:11 GMT
#326
On October 13 2011 05:11 kitaman27 wrote:
Draft pick orders are public?

Are they? I don't remember.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 13 2011 12:18 GMT
#424
9/13
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 13 2011 23:12 GMT
#476
Qatol can ban daily. It's not a one off power.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 13 2011 23:30 GMT
#480
On October 14 2011 08:24 JimboSilvers wrote:
Sorry, I've been busy in irc and forgotten to look at your plan in detail Rad, but my first thoughts looking though it are:

DT roles are not that useful to mafia (except in special cases like wbg pointed out) This means that they will be relatively easy to get. DT roles should NOT be prioritized in the top. I'd say maybe the low mid should grab these roles.

Top picks should be uber town roles and self defense (so that it's dangerous to shoot in there)

Mid-high picks should be KP, IF we want it.

I'll be back about an hour before the deadline to read more.

How do you figure? There are 3 different scum teams all trying to identify their competition. Each one of those teams will be trying to pick a DT role.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 13 2011 23:42 GMT
#484
BB may be but NKVD and Parity cop aren't.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 14 2011 13:49 GMT
#544
3 separate scum teams of 4 people each. Why wouldn't each team put forth 2 candidates?
We have 7 people running. Which one is town? Scum are pretty much guaranteed to grab mayor or pardoner or both. Scum team that gets pardoner has a huge advantage over the other 2 teams. Makes me want to vote for Ace.

I'm actually leaning towards voting for somebody that has shown no desire to run for mayor. Because I think the probability of 6 of the current candidates being scum is damn near 100%.
Scamp, Bugs, Decon, Foolishness. All good choices.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 14 2011 22:56 GMT
#613
Can the Qatol role ban the Mayors role?

Or do the bodyguards prevent this?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 00:00 GMT
#622
On October 15 2011 08:53 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2011 02:50 Protactinium wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:18 kitaman27 wrote:
Can the Qatol role ban the powers of the pardoner?

Mayor and Pardoner are not considered roles, they are considered elected offices. So yes, the Qatol role can ban the Pardoner/Mayor, but it would only remove the powers given to them by their role (the one they picked). They would still retain their mayor/pardoner powers.
On October 14 2011 02:09 DropBear wrote:
Can Framer make their target appear as third party?

There are 4 parties. Framer can make his target look like any one of them


That's what I was looking for. Not the mayoral power but the players role. I though I saw it but I couldn't find his post. (I was at work)
So if there is a Qatol role in the game he should not run for mayor. He should ban the mayor immediately though. If this scenario is well received by all of you I would suggest only vt players run for mayor.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 00:34 GMT
#628
On October 15 2011 09:23 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 09:00 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 15 2011 08:53 Radfield wrote:
On October 14 2011 02:50 Protactinium wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:18 kitaman27 wrote:
Can the Qatol role ban the powers of the pardoner?

Mayor and Pardoner are not considered roles, they are considered elected offices. So yes, the Qatol role can ban the Pardoner/Mayor, but it would only remove the powers given to them by their role (the one they picked). They would still retain their mayor/pardoner powers.
On October 14 2011 02:09 DropBear wrote:
Can Framer make their target appear as third party?

There are 4 parties. Framer can make his target look like any one of them


That's what I was looking for. Not the mayoral power but the players role. I though I saw it but I couldn't find his post. (I was at work)
So if there is a Qatol role in the game he should not run for mayor. He should ban the mayor immediately though. If this scenario is well received by all of you I would suggest only vt players run for mayor.



Who do you think is our best bet for mayor right now? Who would you like to see get lynched?

Of everybody that declared a candidacy Kenpachi is the only one I think is town.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 00:35 GMT
#630
On October 15 2011 09:23 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 09:00 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 15 2011 08:53 Radfield wrote:
On October 14 2011 02:50 Protactinium wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:18 kitaman27 wrote:
Can the Qatol role ban the powers of the pardoner?

Mayor and Pardoner are not considered roles, they are considered elected offices. So yes, the Qatol role can ban the Pardoner/Mayor, but it would only remove the powers given to them by their role (the one they picked). They would still retain their mayor/pardoner powers.
On October 14 2011 02:09 DropBear wrote:
Can Framer make their target appear as third party?

There are 4 parties. Framer can make his target look like any one of them


That's what I was looking for. Not the mayoral power but the players role. I though I saw it but I couldn't find his post. (I was at work)
So if there is a Qatol role in the game he should not run for mayor. He should ban the mayor immediately though. If this scenario is well received by all of you I would suggest only vt players run for mayor.



Who do you think is our best bet for mayor right now? Who would you like to see get lynched?

And as far as a mayoral lynch - anybody that was running for mayor would suit me just fine.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 00:48 GMT
#633
On October 15 2011 09:40 JACCUZISPLAT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 09:34 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 15 2011 09:23 Radfield wrote:
On October 15 2011 09:00 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 15 2011 08:53 Radfield wrote:
On October 14 2011 02:50 Protactinium wrote:
On October 13 2011 23:18 kitaman27 wrote:
Can the Qatol role ban the powers of the pardoner?

Mayor and Pardoner are not considered roles, they are considered elected offices. So yes, the Qatol role can ban the Pardoner/Mayor, but it would only remove the powers given to them by their role (the one they picked). They would still retain their mayor/pardoner powers.
On October 14 2011 02:09 DropBear wrote:
Can Framer make their target appear as third party?

There are 4 parties. Framer can make his target look like any one of them


That's what I was looking for. Not the mayoral power but the players role. I though I saw it but I couldn't find his post. (I was at work)
So if there is a Qatol role in the game he should not run for mayor. He should ban the mayor immediately though. If this scenario is well received by all of you I would suggest only vt players run for mayor.



Who do you think is our best bet for mayor right now? Who would you like to see get lynched?

Of everybody that declared a candidacy Kenpachi is the only one I think is town.


What? Are you running?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 01:01 GMT
#638
On October 15 2011 09:54 prplhz wrote:
i wouldn't mind jackal58 as pardoner, i don't think it's worth it for scum to pardon one of their own and we're gonna have total accountability. mostly i think we should try to get someone "expendable" for pardoner.

We have an expression in my country reserved for moments just like this. Fuck you.

Pardoner is runner up in the mayoral election. I have no desire to run for mayor.

Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 01:03 GMT
#640
On October 15 2011 10:00 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 09:53 prplhz wrote:
on a scale from e^i to sqrt(democratic republic of congo) i'd put you right around that sound it makes when turtles think about mozart's influence of modern furniture.



I laughed in real life at this

I did too. But then he called me expendable.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#660
Apparently Kenpachi is no longer running either.
He just voted for Radfield
I'm sorry guys but none of you give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
I'm going to hold my vote for a while until I see who may end up as Pardoner.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 15 2011 05:49 GMT
#666
I was one of those that encouraged GreYMist to run for mayor. I don't know if others encouraged him or not but I do know I told him if he ran he had my vote. More than 4 people told me they saw GreYMist as town so it's not a single scum family pushing him. Right now he has my vote.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 02:40 GMT
#914
Hi guys. You too Bugs.
Sorry for the inactivity. My wife and I went to a bowling tourney yesterday and decided not to come home til today.

Arctocod - If you're going to get angry because somebody lied to you in a game of mafia you need to play something else.
Nice shot Radfield. Not hard when it's almost 50/50 though. And please explain to me why we shouldn't be scum hunting?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 03:09 GMT
#920
Scum have 3 kp. Anybody want to claim the other 2?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 03:20 GMT
#925
On October 17 2011 12:18 prplhz wrote:
kita swapper at #23

hmmm

Probably means Hiro is NRA.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 03:28 GMT
#929
On October 17 2011 12:25 GreYMisT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:20 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 17 2011 12:18 prplhz wrote:
kita swapper at #23

hmmm

Probably means Hiro is NRA.


can you clarify? I'm afraid im missing your reasoning.

Who is the role swapper going to visit on night 1? The guy that claimed inventor?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 03:37 GMT
#931
Well nm. I was thinking Hiro claimed inventor. I'm going to bed. I shouldn't post here when I've been drinking.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 13:00 GMT
#984
On October 17 2011 15:46 wherebugsgo wrote:
LOL this is too good

Ace please shoot supersoft.

+ Show Spoiler +

[22:50] <wherebugsgo> ok back
[22:51] <supersoft> i have only 5 minutes
[22:51] <wherebugsgo> lol had to get into chrome and not firefox
[22:51] <supersoft> :-/
[22:51] <wherebugsgo> ok
[22:51] <wherebugsgo> what are your scumreads?
[22:51] <supersoft> yep np
[22:51] <supersoft> well,
[22:51] <supersoft> i dont like palmars smurf
[22:51] <supersoft> this actorod
[22:51] <wherebugsgo> ok
[22:52] <supersoft> i trolled him a little bit
[22:52] <supersoft> by telling him that i am the inventor
[22:52] <supersoft> on #18
[22:52] <supersoft> ...
[22:52] <supersoft> i didn't knew it was palmar
[22:53] <wherebugsgo> lol k
[22:53] <supersoft> but his reaction was strange
[22:53] <wherebugsgo> what did he say
[22:53] <supersoft> he said i am lying to him
[22:53] <supersoft> and wanted to know my real role
[22:53] <wherebugsgo> ok
[22:54] <wherebugsgo> soo
[22:54] <supersoft> i dont like people that are bluefishing
[22:54] <wherebugsgo> ok
[22:54] <wherebugsgo> other than arcto
[22:54] <wherebugsgo> anyone else?
[22:54] <supersoft> not really. I think syllo and mig are town
[22:54] <supersoft> i am not sure about rad
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> ok
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> lol
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> there are 7 scum left
[22:55] <supersoft> still.
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> and 14 town
[22:55] <supersoft> yes i know
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> and you have 1 read lol
[22:55] <supersoft> everyone could be scum
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> wtf no
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> like half the town is confirmed already
[22:55] <supersoft> wtf yes
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> ok
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> so
[22:55] <supersoft> lol confirmed in this game?
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> I guess you haven't done anything
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> all game
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> but there are at least
[22:55] <supersoft> whos confirmed in your eyes
[22:55] <wherebugsgo> 3 confirmed town
[22:56] <wherebugsgo> I don't need to tell you lol
[22:56] <wherebugsgo> if you're scum you don't need to know who is confirmed
[22:56] <wherebugsgo> there are like 5-6 probable towns
[22:56] <wherebugsgo> ex mig syllo
[22:56] <wherebugsgo> like you already stated
[22:56] <wherebugsgo> 3 confirmed (at least)
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> = 8-9 probable townies
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> then there's like five people who are almost definitely scum lol
[22:57] <supersoft> okay who
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> again
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> no need for me to say
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> if you are scum
[22:57] <supersoft> dude i got to go :D
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> kk
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> we'll talk again some other time
[22:57] <supersoft> blargh
[22:57] <wherebugsgo> perhaps later this day cycle
[22:57] <supersoft> why am i talking to you
[22:57] <supersoft> are you confirmed town?
[22:57] <supersoft> i guess not.
[22:58] <wherebugsgo> you don't need to know lol
[22:58] <supersoft> lol
[22:58] <supersoft> why am i talking to you
[22:58] <supersoft> this doesnt make any sense
[22:58] <supersoft> with your shady
[22:58] <supersoft> "you dont need to know"
[22:58] <supersoft> then i dont need to talk to you
[22:58] <wherebugsgo> ofc not
[22:58] <wherebugsgo> you're not probable town to me
[22:58] <wherebugsgo> so I don't need to tell you anything
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> and you haven't shown
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> that you ARE probable town this game
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> so...lol
[22:59] <supersoft> yo
[22:59] <supersoft> how could i show this anyway
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> contributing
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> PMing people
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> being around
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> lots of ways actually
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> those are only a few
[22:59] <wherebugsgo> you've had like no say
[22:59] <supersoft> lol
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> in elections/last 5 scum who died
[23:00] <supersoft> you're funny
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> or well 4 I guess
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> cause decon hasn't flipped yet
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> 3 scum died last night
[23:00] <supersoft> i know
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> and AFAIK you said nothing about any of them
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> before they died
[23:00] <supersoft> i just read the daypost
[23:00] <supersoft> lol
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> you haven't said anything about decon either
[23:00] <supersoft> dude
[23:00] <supersoft> and even if i did
[23:00] <supersoft> this wouldnt confirm me as town
[23:00] <supersoft> if i was scum
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> no it wouldn't
[23:00] <wherebugsgo> I never said it would confirm you lol
[23:00] <supersoft> i would be interested
[23:01] <wherebugsgo> it would help make you look better though
[23:01] <supersoft> that the other scumfractions die
[23:01] <supersoft> so
[23:01] <wherebugsgo> very unlikely
[23:01] <supersoft> it doesnt tell you anything
[23:01] <wherebugsgo> unless you're a tudor
[23:01] <wherebugsgo> you would be scared
[23:01] <supersoft> if someone even kills scum
[23:01] <wherebugsgo> cause both yorker/lancaster have half their members right now
[23:01] <supersoft> i am not scum
[23:01] <wherebugsgo> good for you lol
[23:01] <supersoft> just have a lot of work to do
[23:01] <wherebugsgo> I don't know what you are
[23:01] <supersoft> and am talking to only you and mig
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> right that's a problem lol
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> you need to talk to more people
[23:02] <supersoft> no its not
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> ofc it is
[23:02] <supersoft> i play every game like that
[23:02] <supersoft> i hate the start of the games
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> lol
[23:02] <supersoft> noone knows anything
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> well
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> obviously
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> that isn't the case
[23:02] <supersoft> but everyone claims to know exactly whyts going on
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> because 5 scum are dead already
[23:02] <supersoft> i'll collect my information
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> only 1 of which
[23:02] <supersoft> and come forward with that at some point
[23:02] <wherebugsgo> was shot by other scum
[23:02] <supersoft> look at my play in XLV
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> your play in XLV
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> was different
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> than here
[23:03] <supersoft> I was afk the first 2 days
[23:03] <supersoft> no its not
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> yes it is lol
[23:03] <supersoft> look my posts
[23:03] <supersoft> the first 2 days
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> ok
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> even Mig
[23:03] <supersoft> ahh
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> says your play is different
[23:03] <supersoft> whatever
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> lool
[23:03] <supersoft> i need to go
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> kk
[23:03] <wherebugsgo> cy
[23:03] <supersoft> i have an exam
[23:03] <supersoft> in about 30 min
[23:04] <supersoft> that goes 5 hours
[23:04] <supersoft> :-o
[23:04] <supersoft> okay
[23:04] <wherebugsgo> gl
[23:04] <supersoft> thanks
[23:05] <supersoft> and don't be stupid. my play is exactly the same. even if i were scum i wouldnt play different
[23:05] <supersoft> you can accuse me in the thread
[23:05] <supersoft> i'll defend myself like a hero
[23:05] <supersoft> :D
[23:05] <supersoft> but right now i have only few time
[23:05] <supersoft> and noone PMs me except you
[23:06] <supersoft> i was online last night for like 3 hours
[23:06] <supersoft> :-D
[23:06] <supersoft> cu
[23:06] <wherebugsgo> cya


"I have a 5 hour exam in 30 minutes"

LOOK AT THE TIMESTAMPS

He showed up at 15:40 to post this when his 5 hour test apparently started 10 minutes ago. Shoot this liar

Maybe he's scum, maybe he isn't. But if that's your criteria so are you.

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2011 01:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
Yo guys it's 9 am here and I have all my hw due and like five classes today. I won't be on for another 8-10 hours or so.



On October 15 2011 01:34 wherebugsgo wrote:



On October 15 2011 02:31 wherebugsgo wrote:



On October 15 2011 04:23 wherebugsgo wrote:


On October 15 2011 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:




Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 15:35 GMT
#990
How many people have role claimed to Arctocod?
He claims to have all but 8 on a spread sheet.
He's pissed that I won't claim to him.
Wtf is up with this?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 16:19 GMT
#999
On October 18 2011 00:56 Arctocod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2011 00:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On October 18 2011 00:49 syllogism wrote:
Rad raises some good points, but I'd like to hear more from Meapak, specifically who does he consider a solid lynch today. Arctocod apparently, but how about building an actual case

I'm waiting to see if Arcto goes through with an incredibly short-sighted and foolish plan. If he does then we're going to have a lot to talk about. I'm going to be gone in about 9 minutes though so he needs to hurry up.


don't hold your breath.

You only shoot DTs right?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 16:24 GMT
#1002
On October 18 2011 01:21 Arctocod wrote:
I might die today lol

You might.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 16:43 GMT
#1005
On October 18 2011 01:37 supersoft wrote:
##Vote Meapak_Ziphh

palmar made a huge post. i agree. reasons and details follow in about 4 hours if i dont change my mind.

@wbg: your case against me is so bad. my exam lasted from 9.00 to 14.00; i left my house at about 8.15 and entered the university at about 8.50
in the meantime from 14.00 to now i was in my repetitorium university course whatever its called in E and only could pm palmar from time to time.
if you want to use a kp on me for being wishy washy with these times i really dont care.


Baaaaa.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 21:07 GMT
#1016
Yer a funny guy Palmar.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 17 2011 23:07 GMT
#1027
Last time Sandroba disappeared in a game he was scum. Where are you Sandroba?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 00:56 GMT
#1031
On October 18 2011 08:52 Kenpachi wrote:
it shows hes Showtime yes

A vote rigger? Falling all the way to 20? Not without help it didn't.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 01:05 GMT
#1033
Meapak isn't inventor. He's NRA. Somebody else on his team is inventor.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 01:25 GMT
#1036
On October 18 2011 10:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
Jackal what makes you say that?

How do we know what Meapak is?

Because a role swapper died. What would you claim as scum if you took NRA first? One of the top 5 have it and are on the same team as him.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 01:25 GMT
#1037
On October 18 2011 10:24 Radfield wrote:
How could anyone know that someone is NRA.... unless you tried for it and didn't get it.

Did someone on your scum team try for NRA Jackal? And you've narrowed it down to Meapak? Explain.

Just did.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 01:38 GMT
#1043
I don't "know" I'm just postulating on what might be happening. What would you do as scum in a multifaction game with the #1 pick. I'd damn sure take NRA and claim inventor. I'd want to kill off the other factions as quick as possible. What an easy way to do it.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 02:23 GMT
#1047
On October 18 2011 11:15 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm not NRA, that's really poor reasoning Jackal.

I'll address Palmar's "analysis" of me when I get home.

Interesting. You deny being NRA but not the scum part.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 03:27 GMT
#1051
So you're one of Palmars co-conspirators Mig?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 03:39 GMT
#1054
On October 18 2011 12:29 Mig wrote:
You need to be more specific Jackal. What exactly do you mean co-conspirator.

And who do you think is scum? Who do you plan on voting for this lynch?

From: Arctocod [ 44 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: Hey jackal
Date: 10/18/11 00:35
Look, Jackal, I'm only answering this in the off-chance you're town because I know how stubborn you are.

I'm not solely in charge of any hitlist. But people die if they don't work with us because that's just how it is. I can claim back to you, if you want any sort of a guarantee. It's not the issue.

Main thing is that knowing what people have helps us. Townies tend to pick towny roles, scum picks scummy roles.

Original Message From Jackal58:
Role fishing is always scummy. I don't care where you said it isn't.

So are you the one in charge of this "hit list"? And how does claiming my role to somebody I don't trust increase my usefulness?

Show nested quote +
Reply

Don't play stupid.

I'm fairly certain Palmcod is scum. If lynch was 5 minutes away I'd vote for Meapak. But not for the reasons Palmcod put forth. But lynch is about 24 hours away so I'm not feeling compelled to vote for anybody atm.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 03:52 GMT
#1058
On October 18 2011 12:50 hiro protagonist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2011 12:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
why are you derps still talking about people other than sandroba?


Saying stuff like this is not helping. Its not a townie thing to do. It actively quells discussion. Stop it.

But dude. HE GOES TO BERKLEY!!!!!!!
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 03:57 GMT
#1061
On October 18 2011 12:51 Mig wrote:
I have talked a good bit with palmar but I wouldn't say I am a conspirator, most of what he has done this game he has not discussed with me.

I do know he claims that you have claimed to him, is this true? And he has not told me what your role is but he has told me it would be powerful for scum. Do you agree with that statement?

Palmcod wouldn't recognize town if it crawled up his ass and laid eggs.
I just sent you a PM. A response would be appreciated.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 04:42 GMT
#1064
On October 18 2011 13:31 hiro protagonist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
On October 18 2011 12:50 hiro protagonist wrote:
On October 18 2011 12:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
why are you derps still talking about people other than sandroba?


Saying stuff like this is not helping. Its not a townie thing to do. It actively quells discussion. Stop it.


oh look a derp who seems to want to call me scum

Saying stuff like this is not helping. Its not a townie thing to do. It actively quells discussion. Stop it.

But HE GOES TO BERKLEY!!!!!!!
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 12:02 GMT
#1085
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 19:03 GMT
#1112
On October 19 2011 03:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Sandroba lied about being methman, he's one of my BGs and thus vt.

Rock Star -
You have two bodyguards to protect you from angry fans and mafia because you’re just that rich. You know them and they know you! Rock Star bodyguards are taken from vanilla players who did not select or obtain a role and may be any alignment. Bodyguards do not know each other. Bodyguards will protect the Rock Star no matter what alignment they are or he is. The bodyguards protect the Rock Star from both day and night kills but not lynches (including the king's), zombie hits, or nukes.

No he's not.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 19:04 GMT
#1113
On October 19 2011 04:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2011 03:53 JimboSilvers wrote:
EBWODP: Also, in your own words, I'm more useful alive as town than dead as scum. Again, what changed your mind, because all you're saying is "Palmar told me..." and that's a pretty bad excuse.

Well it's your word against Palmars. I'd love for him to come in here and confirm or deny this. If it turns out he was lying then, you're still very suspicious but not lynch worthy yet, we would lynch sandroba instead.

However I'm taking what Palmar said at face value because he seems to have access to everyone's role. I can't really see any reason for him to lie, he must have known I was going to repeat what he said in the thread, I can't imagine he'd be stupid enough to lie because it'd be really scummy if he did.

Nonetheless, we will wait for his return.

He's lied several times. Including claiming he shot last night.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 21:18 GMT
#1133
On October 19 2011 04:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2011 04:03 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 19 2011 03:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Sandroba lied about being methman, he's one of my BGs and thus vt.

Rock Star -
You have two bodyguards to protect you from angry fans and mafia because you’re just that rich. You know them and they know you! Rock Star bodyguards are taken from vanilla players who did not select or obtain a role and may be any alignment. Bodyguards do not know each other. Bodyguards will protect the Rock Star no matter what alignment they are or he is. The bodyguards protect the Rock Star from both day and night kills but not lynches (including the king's), zombie hits, or nukes.

No he's not.

What does this even mean?

It means he's vanilla. Not townie.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 22:24 GMT
#1162
And no I didn't ninja vote. I thought I had voted hours ago.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 18 2011 22:53 GMT
#1173
On October 19 2011 07:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
What the fuck?!

Someone's been impersonating me on IRC... -_-

I never had that conversation with you, meapak, lol.

No wonder people think I'm scummy, hahahahahahahaha.

You a Bears fan Wiggles?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 19 2011 01:47 GMT
#1218
On October 19 2011 10:46 GreYMisT wrote:
Isnt there like 15 minutes till the lynch?

hour and 15.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 19 2011 02:54 GMT
#1227
On October 19 2011 11:49 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2011 11:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
What would make him york?


nvm this is a dumb question.

Hopefully meapak is scum but even if he's not, town is in a good position.

Really?

Since the odds of me surviving tonight are pretty close to zero Allah Akbar Arctocod.
See I do love you.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 19 2011 02:59 GMT
#1229
On October 19 2011 11:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2011 11:54 Jackal58 wrote:
On October 19 2011 11:49 wherebugsgo wrote:
On October 19 2011 11:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
What would make him york?


nvm this is a dumb question.

Hopefully meapak is scum but even if he's not, town is in a good position.

Really?

Since the odds of me surviving tonight are pretty close to zero Allah Akbar Arctocod.
See I do love you.


??

I'm really hoping you're a scum doctor sitting on him.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 19 2011 03:11 GMT
#1237
On October 19 2011 12:01 Mig wrote:
Jackal are you suiciding?

Apparently it's a slow process.
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
October 24 2011 16:49 GMT
#1574
On October 24 2011 18:22 Palmar wrote:
Hey guys, some things I'd like to say about this game.

The lists I wrote on day 2, were mostly intended to put pressure and subtly manipulate. While most of the reads were something I believed at the time, they were still kinda off. I just randomly painted everyone who hadn't roleclaimed red, along with my strongest reads. I still can't believe Foolishness was town.

Supersoft should have died night 2, I painted him green in the lists to make him think I trusted him. I was going to ask him to hide behind wiggles and then make sure we shot Wiggles. I told Mig of this plan, but it seems like Mig/Radfield simply forgot about it after Jackal killed me.

Only reason prplhz was saved for one of the last is he claimed to have tried to pick dreamflower which was a very ballsy move. If Hiro hadn't picked dreamflower he'd have been hanged instantly. Claiming this early day 1 was really brave/stupid.

Sandroba was kind of a weird case for us all, we kinda agreed that we'd just ignore him until we needed to. We didn't give him too much information, and we just knew his time would come, we had more important targets to kill at the time. The plan was to simply keep him out of the loop while we killed off more important targets, because we knew he couldn't really play anti-town or disrupt anything.

I guess Jackal suiciding into me was kinda my fault, I was taunting him into doing it and finally he just decided to go for it. At the time I knew we'd easily clean up the rest of the mafia anyway, it was just a matter of elimination. The only mafia that really eluded us was Kenpachi, he was the only mafia I really thought was town.

Anyway, I think PM games are interesting but I also think we've had too many recently. It's really annoying to play mafia in PM games so I'm glad I didn't have to deal with that.





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