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On October 14 2011 01:42 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 00:46 DropBear wrote:On October 14 2011 00:37 JACCUZISPLAT wrote:On October 14 2011 00:16 DropBear wrote:On October 13 2011 23:13 kitaman27 wrote:
Someone in the mid to high range might want to consider picking Framer as an honesty check and to discourage anyone from picking it late in the draft.
With all the lynch dodging abilitites (hero, vet, vote rigger, Showtime!) the Qatol ability might be pretty useful for town to ban the person who is about to get lynched to increase the odds that it goes through. Considering there will be so many mafia information checks, it will also let us remove a scum power if we are unable to lynch everybody during the day. I will take Framer if everyone is prepared to leave it for me? lol? I've already sent it in. Claiming Framer :D In the interest of making 100% sure that we keep the framer role out of the mafia's hands I suggest that someone pick Qatol and then ban it once Dropbear has gotten it. It takes the ambiguity of whether Dropbear is actually mafia or not. I can't think of a single situation where a townie framer would be advantageous that would likely come up that wouldn't just cause more confusion and disruption.
Framer can be used to redirect actions, like a mindcontroller. So it is extremely useful in town hands. I can make mafia kill each other. It's not the framing that makes the role good.
Not only this, if I'm reading it right, I can make the target appear as whatever I like. I will make them appear third party, cos there aren't any third parties, that way detective roles know that they are looking at someone who is framed.
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Can Framer make their target appear as third party?
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Framer can be used to redirect actions, like a mindcontroller. So it is extremely useful in town hands. I can make mafia kill each other. It's not the framing that makes the role good.
And how would you go about doing this? How would you know who is mafia and who is not? How would you know that that particular mafia is going to be shooting? I assume since each mafia group only has 1 KP and 4 members that it will be RNG-ed between the members. Even if they did control who would go out to carry out the hit, they're just pick someone different to do it. How would you know?
Do mafia get to pick which one of them goes to carry out the hit?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
It was already mentioned that a framer can't redirect a mafia kp. Unless there is an extremely unlikly situation where there is a claimed scum CPR doc whose kill we want to redirect, it certainly isn't worth masking someones alignment.
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On October 14 2011 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:
It was already mentioned that a framer can't redirect a mafia kp. Unless there is an extremely unlikly situation where there is a claimed scum CPR doc whose kill we want to redirect, it certainly isn't worth masking someones alignment.
If I can't redirect a mafia KP then the value of is greatly lessened. Can you PM me where it is mentioned or post it in here?
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On October 13 2011 09:14 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 21:09 syllogism wrote:
If the framer targets a member of mafia, can their NK be redirected?
Do mafia have to assign who performs the killl?] No No
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@Radfield I put vet in 7-14 AND 15-20. Good point about doctor thing.
@Dropbear Man if you are town and are doing this, I don't know what to say. 1st it's unlikely mafia will leave it be until your pick. 2nd you can use your average position to pick much more advantegeous roles. 3rd I explained like 8 times already how denying is not good. But if you wanted to do it anyway and ignore all the good advice, the last thing you wanted to do is fucking claim you are doing it. Now you pick is either not gonna work or not going to cause mafia to mispick framer. To be honest I don't believe you can be this naive.
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On October 13 2011 23:18 kitaman27 wrote:
Can the Qatol role ban the powers of the pardoner?
Mayor and Pardoner are not considered roles, they are considered elected offices. So yes, the Qatol role can ban the Pardoner/Mayor, but it would only remove the powers given to them by their role (the one they picked). They would still retain their mayor/pardoner powers.
On October 14 2011 02:09 DropBear wrote:
Can Framer make their target appear as third party?
There are 4 parties. Framer can make his target look like any one of them 
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Its like saying "guys i have a super secrete plan to screw over mafia, here it is!"
I mean yea we will know if there is a framer in the game if you do this, but i think it was already safe to assume there was going to be one with its power for the mafia.
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On October 14 2011 02:50 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 23:18 kitaman27 wrote:
Can the Qatol role ban the powers of the pardoner? Mayor and Pardoner are not considered roles, they are considered elected offices. So yes, the Qatol role can ban the Pardoner/Mayor, but it would only remove the powers given to them by their role (the one they picked). They would still retain their mayor/pardoner powers.Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 02:09 DropBear wrote:
Can Framer make their target appear as third party? There are 4 parties. Framer can make his target look like any one of them
I think he meant 5th party. From your answer, is it safe to assume framing as 5th party isn't possible?
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Wtf would be the point of that? There are no factions other than the town faction and the 3 scum factions, right?
The alignment setup isn't closed.
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Alright well if I can't redirect Mafia KP then the appeal of Framer just went down a lot for me so I'm not sure I want it anymore.
I will still take it if it is deemed to be super important enough to remove from play though. It would be a pain in the arse in mafia hands.
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On October 14 2011 03:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
Wtf would be the point of that? There are no factions other than the town faction and the 3 scum factions, right?
The alignment setup isn't closed.
There is no point, I just want to see the answer now he's brought it up.
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On October 14 2011 03:18 DropBear wrote:
Alright well if I can't redirect Mafia KP then the appeal of Framer just went down a lot for me so I'm not sure I want it anymore.
I will still take it if it is deemed to be super important enough to remove from play though. It would be a pain in the arse in mafia hands.
wow
i now think you are also scum. 2 down already!
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On October 14 2011 03:57 JACCUZISPLAT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 03:18 DropBear wrote:
Alright well if I can't redirect Mafia KP then the appeal of Framer just went down a lot for me so I'm not sure I want it anymore.
I will still take it if it is deemed to be super important enough to remove from play though. It would be a pain in the arse in mafia hands. wow i now think you are also scum. 2 down already!
10 to go!
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hey i just realized that framer is a pretty cool role for any scum if nra claims in thread .. just redirect people to nra and they're done with
maybe nra shouldn't claim in thread
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yeah that's precisely why NRA shouldn't claim in thread...
If a scum gets framer townies will start dropping like flies because the framer will just start redirecting them into the NRA
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Man, framer doesn't know who is town/who has a visiting role. The alternative which is unclaimed nra is much worse for town, especially when we are following the proposed plan.
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If a framer redirects someone into another person, does that mean that the target is actually redirected, or that it simply APPEARS that the target is redirected?
i.e. if a vanilla townie were redirected to an NRA member by a framer, would that vanilla townie then die or would it simply appear to a tracker that the vanilla townie visited the NRA member that night?
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On October 14 2011 05:03 sandroba wrote:
Man, framer doesn't know who is town/who has a visiting role. The alternative which is unclaimed nra is much worse for town, especially when we are following the proposed plan.
I don't think the frame-ee has to have a visiting role. The description just says that the framed can make them visit somebody.
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EPT
