|
On September 21 2011 01:36 syllogism wrote:
I don't understand what's going on with this cipher. Assuming the intention isn't just to mislead, there is no reason to voluntarily post an anonymous message in code, especially something that short. Thus if we assume the source of the message is a townie, it would have to be some sort of information role result. If that is the case, obviously the role has to have a posting restriction that prohibits him from talking about it, or perhaps simply doesn't know how to solve it either. The message structure and word length indicates the message could say [player X] is [alignment]. However, the first word is 6 letters long and none of the names match if it's a substitution cipher. Similarly replacing the last four letters with TOWN or SCUM doesn't get you anywhere, as doesn't replacing the two letter word with 'is'.
Yeah I've been toying around with it by shifting the alphabet up and down, it doesnt really help much...
between one letter up and one down, you can make out is in the middle and wn on the end of the last word, but the rest is all jargon still so i doubt that's actually the methodology required
if your correct in assuming its regards someones alignment, the first word is 6 letters long so I could see it being these:
jackal
palmar
xtfftc
jeejee
archon
cheese
prphlz
trance
sandro?
ciryan?
I've been thinking it could be in reverse somehow too, ring is secure or something?
It's really confusing though...
|
On September 21 2011 05:16 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 05:11 heist wrote:
First chance I got to be active since the night phase. I'll be reading through and posting my thoughts. But looking at the last comment, claiming is not going to do anything. Mafia all have safe claims. How do you know mafia all have safe claims?
It's in the OP that scum all have safe claims isn't it?
|
EBWOP
On September 12 2011 03:19 Curu wrote:
[b]This is a closed setup. No roles or numbers will be revealed. You may not quote your role PM. You may paraphrase it if you wish. Do not rely on flavor to win the game – all non-Town players have been provided with safeclaims. Flips are not hidden.
|
It's in the mafia's best interest to lure people away from discussions about scum, and on to things like lore and speculation on mechanics, and if they can speculate on mechanics and come up with a plan that may make them stronger at the same time all the better. With this in mind, I would like to revisit the possibility that the mafia atually did propose a plan to take control of the ring.
Now assuming you were the mafia, who would you assign to propose the pro-scum plan that may or may not go through?
In the words of MrWiggles (notably deceased):
On September 19 2011 10:46 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
As well, it seems unlikely that if it was a mafia ploy they would have had Jackal deliver the plan. Even if one could give away the ring during the day, it would draw a lot of attention to the person proposing it, due to certain short-comings. It makes more sense to get one of the lesser experienced mafia members to propose it, because heat being drawn to them isn't as bad, and it can more easily be passed off as not thinking it through enough.
Now, all this person really needs is a few quiet days while people slowly forget what he did day 1 if things go bad, so they *could* try to lurk until it all blew over.
With that in mind, lets take a second look at TranceStorm's plan to confirm townies-
On September 17 2011 14:36 TranceStorm wrote:
Debating about who should get the ring and what each role can or cannot do at the moment is pointless at the current time. However, I do like one of the plans that was proposed by a few people: having the person who successfully passed on the ring claim themselves. This way, we can enable a 'chain' to be made - i.e. the first player can confirm the second player once the second player has passed on the ring themselves. This is all dependent on the assumption that evil players cannot pass the ring themselves which as Radfield pointed out, is probably a true assumption.
Given this, however, this plan would probably only be effective for the first few 'passes' and perhaps near the end of the game when town circles become more clear. The risk after the first few days that the person holding the ring is killed, or has the ring stolen (which is a possible role according to the OP) makes the plan ineffective.
Therefore, I think that such a plan should work for the first 2 or 3 days to confirm at least one or two people. Any thoughts or ideas about this? I haven't fully fleshed this out yet (i.e. the possibility of fake claims is strong), but its probably a better discussion than the arbitrary finger-pointing going on at the moment.
This seemingly bad town plan has a ton of flaws.
-Townies might not be able to further pass the ring, and therefore not safely claim after the ring was given to them. The ring is now stuck on someone who can't move it, when the previous towns person could have moved the ring if he sensed danger.
-The difficulty of finding a new townie who the ring should be passed to. With every pass, the chance of the recipient being a scumbag increases. Self explanatory
-Bad payoffs. A 'confirmed' townie won't be able to accomplish much.
-The chance of scum lying to gain whatever town cred exsists. This admittedly could potentially force a counter claim, and get a scum lynched for one townie, but the chance of scum actually trying it is low.
-The assumption seems horribly scummy, it helps pave the way for scum to confirm themselves. It also seems to rely on a town aligned role with the power to search for the ring, just in case the scum player decided not to even try to pass it.
-The plan overall balances a low payoff with a rather low reward.
After the plan is dismissed, Trance proceeds to act wishy-washy and brings up a case on anyone he believes might legitimately form a bandwagon, before deciding to join a pre-exsisting one.
I don't have much to say about this part because I don't understand why all three major wagons were town, but I believe mafia have their reasons to want to flip both WBG and prphlz, and so they bandwagoned onto a convenient easy target in Errandor.
For the sake of this point, I advise you read through his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264699&user=27938
What I do know, is that DocH (deceased) was willing to oversee his plan rather quickly-
On September 17 2011 15:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TranceStorm has a bad plan. Big deal, hopefully he can be made to see the problem with it. The main problem is that this game is not about confirming townies using mechanics we don't understand the goal is to find and catch scum.
If I'm not mistaken, that was among the most dismissive statements DocH said while he was alive.
At the same time DocH was gaining town cred by helping to dismiss the plan after townies already had (Yet another benefit.)
On September 17 2011 15:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
We don't know anything about the ring. Passing it on to scum could have terrible consequences. If we knew exactly what the rings powers were and what powers each player had relating to it then we could maybe form some plan for its use but otherwise this discussion is pretty much off the table.
In the lore of LOTR the one ring basically reflects the power of its holder. A simple hobbit like Frodo simply becomes invisible holding it. But a powerful wizard like Saruman or god forbid Sauron could use it to become basically invincible/mind control/etc. And I'm not sure the ring will have evolving powers (just speculating) but hopefully my points be simple to understand
1. We have no idea what the extent of the consequences would be if the one ring were to fall into the hands of an evil player.
2. We have no idea what the ring even does other than the player who holds it or maybe some other role has knowledge.
3. It is not worth risking getting the ring on the wrong side of the town simply to MAYBE confirm a few players.
TranceStorm is Scum
|
On September 21 2011 05:51 TranceStorm wrote:
@Cyber_Cheese
You really have been tunneling me all game, so I will respond to some of your arguments.
I made a bad plan, I get it. We've already established that. It was an idea I had and I asked for input from other people to improve the plan, instead, everyone decided to say the plan was a bad idea so I dropped it. Why are you focusing only on Dr. H's response to the plan? A dismissive response says absolutely nothing at all. For example, I am making a dismissive statement about your arguments; does that mean we are secretly cooperating with each other? There were many other responses saying that it was bad. That takes up a majority of your large post.
Then you say that I jumped onto different bandwagons until I settled on the easy target of Errandor. Take a minute to think about that. If I were mafia, I would already know that prplhz was a townie and could keep my vote on him and pretend to be afk knowing that a townie would be lynched on day 1. After Errandor got lynched, I could stand around and shout "damn! I wasn't there to stop the lynch! Of course Errandor was innocent" (like many people did say). Moving from prplhz only increased the suspicion on me, something which a mafia would not do (which is why I don't suspect OriginalName either, since he moved in the same way that I did).
The last time I let an anti-town plan slip, it was my first game in Cosmic Horror mafia, and I changed MrWiggles suggestion into a good one while siding against TheFerryman who called him out on it. I'm not making the same mistake twice.
For that matter, if you were mafia, why did you kill or attempt to kill the other day 1 suspects? I'm iffy on that whole section of the game.
On September 21 2011 05:56 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 05:46 GreYMisT wrote:Cyber's post above promted me to look back over trace's posts, and I found these two gems. most notably with regards to his plan for confirming townies. On September 17 2011 15:27 TranceStorm wrote:
@DrH. Fine, those are valid points. I didn't fully flesh out my plan as well as I imagined it would be and underestimated the risks.
But, wouldn't it be a good idea to set the rule that if a player does ever pass on the ring, they reveal its powers? We already know that everyone wants the ring (both town and non-town) so I think it would be beneficial to town discussion to know the ring powers. (if they don't change like you fear they might). Notice how in this post he acknowledges the potential flaws and the fact that it is incompete a respectfull manner towards DrH. You are selectively choosing quotes here. Look through my posts again. I rearticulate a point that I feel was valid against his criticism i.e. the idea that a person who has had the ring in the past should reveal its abilities. In fact, I act in the same way towards you and Cyber_Cheese as well agreeing with you when you articulate certain points while adding my own input. Simply because I responded to Dr. H does not mean we were working together.
Until Dr. H posted with a negative light on your plan, you stuck by it and attempted to work on it, and then it was suddenly a thing to be left in the past.
|
On September 21 2011 06:29 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 06:05 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On September 21 2011 05:51 TranceStorm wrote:
@Cyber_Cheese
You really have been tunneling me all game, so I will respond to some of your arguments.
I made a bad plan, I get it. We've already established that. It was an idea I had and I asked for input from other people to improve the plan, instead, everyone decided to say the plan was a bad idea so I dropped it. Why are you focusing only on Dr. H's response to the plan? A dismissive response says absolutely nothing at all. For example, I am making a dismissive statement about your arguments; does that mean we are secretly cooperating with each other? There were many other responses saying that it was bad. That takes up a majority of your large post.
Then you say that I jumped onto different bandwagons until I settled on the easy target of Errandor. Take a minute to think about that. If I were mafia, I would already know that prplhz was a townie and could keep my vote on him and pretend to be afk knowing that a townie would be lynched on day 1. After Errandor got lynched, I could stand around and shout "damn! I wasn't there to stop the lynch! Of course Errandor was innocent" (like many people did say). Moving from prplhz only increased the suspicion on me, something which a mafia would not do (which is why I don't suspect OriginalName either, since he moved in the same way that I did). The last time I let an anti-town plan slip, it was my first game in Cosmic Horror mafia, and I changed MrWiggles suggestion into a good one while siding against TheFerryman who called him out on it. I'm not making the same mistake twice. For that matter, if you were mafia, why did you kill or attempt to kill the other day 1 suspects? I'm iffy on that whole section of the game. On September 21 2011 05:56 TranceStorm wrote:On September 21 2011 05:46 GreYMisT wrote:Cyber's post above promted me to look back over trace's posts, and I found these two gems. most notably with regards to his plan for confirming townies. On September 17 2011 15:27 TranceStorm wrote:
@DrH. Fine, those are valid points. I didn't fully flesh out my plan as well as I imagined it would be and underestimated the risks.
But, wouldn't it be a good idea to set the rule that if a player does ever pass on the ring, they reveal its powers? We already know that everyone wants the ring (both town and non-town) so I think it would be beneficial to town discussion to know the ring powers. (if they don't change like you fear they might). Notice how in this post he acknowledges the potential flaws and the fact that it is incompete a respectfull manner towards DrH. You are selectively choosing quotes here. Look through my posts again. I rearticulate a point that I feel was valid against his criticism i.e. the idea that a person who has had the ring in the past should reveal its abilities. In fact, I act in the same way towards you and Cyber_Cheese as well agreeing with you when you articulate certain points while adding my own input. Simply because I responded to Dr. H does not mean we were working together. Until Dr. H posted with a negative light on your plan, you stuck by it and attempted to work on it, and then it was suddenly a thing to be left in the past. First off, so is your argument that I intentionally posted a bad plan so that Dr. H would be in a good light? That seems to be a very infeasible explanation for posting a plan in the first place. It's because I had a genuine idea which I believed would work. Second, I am not aware at all of what happened in your previous games, but I will maintain that proposing ideas for the town to debate about is not an anti-town measure. Before I made my proposal there was absolutely no discussion about really important issues. People were merely speculating about other unimportant things (which mafia loves to feed as you said). Because I proposed a plan, there became more focus in the town's initiative (partly helped by WBG's antics). Mafia would be fine leaving the town in the discussions that existed before my plan came around. I obviously can't account for why the mafia decided to target the people they did last night, but I will maintain that my vote switch from prplhz to Errandor would not be a move made by someone with mafia motivations. And finally, I had revised the 'plan' after Dr. H's post - from the 'chain' idea to that of the 'reveal what the ring does' idea after multiple people expressed displeasure. It wasn't only Dr. H's reasoning that convinced me to give up the plan, it was the fact that I realized that no one was going to accept my logic afterwards.
The first point I believe to be an unexpected side-effect that accidentally benefitted you.
The second was merely to point out that these things do happen and that not every bad plan should be dismissed so easily.
The voting and mafia's targeting seems too open to interpretation to be relied on here.
What possible reasons would 'noone accept your logic afterwards' for? If no one likes an idea, it's because it was ill-thought through. My argument here is it required your scum buddy to post before you realised just how ill-thought through it was.
|
That makes chaoser [unknown], syllogism [day vig] and igrok [assassin survivor] that claimed to or did get hit today, and i really doubt medics caught all three
|
On September 21 2011 20:20 Palmar wrote:
How is this even a discussion? Murder the shit out of iGrok.
This post aroused some serious suspcions on Palmar when I read it, he wants to shutdown discussion on other possible scum candidates apparently.
I took a look through his filter for some background, and subsequently lead me to believe he is scum.
When prodded by Syllogism to provide some background, he returns with this:
On September 21 2011 19:12 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 17:29 syllogism wrote:On September 21 2011 17:22 Palmar wrote:
rofl, die scum die Are you going to do anything useful all game? I'm voting iGrok!
If bandwagoning is useful, then sure he's a great help.
But in the interests of being fair, let's look more at his voting on IGrok:
On September 20 2011 22:32 Palmar wrote:
Erandorr worked because it was less bad a bandwagon than the others, which has now become apparent. DrH should really have been it, but I wasn't around to push them buttons. I never asked whom you have a town read on, giving that away would be incredibly stupid. I asked if you actually had a town read on someone, (the alternative being you don't have a town read on anyone). I was basically provoking you into start thinking about townies you can trust.
But I know it's extremely hard to work with you're stubborn and have really bad reads. I just hope that you'll be able to figure out what to do if you actually are the ring bearer. And I hope our medics understand that you're a great target tonight too.
In any case, it's time to lynch mafia.
##Vote iGrok
Up until this point, his comments on IGrok were
On September 20 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:
I don't like the smell of iGrok and Kita...
On September 20 2011 21:59 Palmar wrote:
iGrok's play is so much more passive and less assertive than it was in Ace's game. I'm thinking he's scummery. I'm gonna read the context of his posts better, but just a quick filter and you can see he's not really pushing any ideas, he's just being derp and making one-liners and lists.
So he doesn't like IGroks smell, and the rest of his reasoning relies on meta.
It doesn't get any better as time passes
On September 21 2011 00:31 Palmar wrote:
Radfield, I'm looking at iGrok. I haven't gotten overly scummy vibes from anyone else (apart from DrH, but he's dead).
Syllogism is... dangerous, he's echoing what Sandroba and I are saying which makes sense if he's town, but he'd do it as scum anyway, because as soon as he disagrees on bad reasoning he's scum. He has made a few good calls though, but I expect him too, both as scum and town.
So the rest are probably lurking, or they're people like Jackal whose alignment I simply can't deduce due to him having a meta of being useless/wrong enough as town that I can't figure him out as scum.
Thing is, townies like posting more than mafia does, and I have quite a few good town reads. I'm actually reading now, so it'll pick up soon enough. We can only lynch one guy today anyway, and iGrok is a great candidate.
Go compare his style this game to his style as town in Ace's game, I'm not talking about content or amount, I'm talking about attitude and context.
Notice how everything he uses is purely meta?
This in itself is fine, but if you want to use meta, you have to do more than simply mention the word meta.
He doesn't prove a comparison of IGrok's current playstyle to this meta, nor does he choose to bring up anything related to IGrok's actions in the current game.
I'm not sold on IGrok either, but if this counts as a reason to vote for someone and useful contribution, somethings wrong.
##Unvote
##Vote Palmar
|
On September 21 2011 21:27 prplhz wrote:
@drazerk
rofl so we should just accept anything from anybody, 'cause people have been acting shit all game long anyway?
No, but we shouldn't use it as the only evidence we have. Wherebugsgo nearly died off his senseless Gollum claim, and DocH was pushing his lynch quite hard.
I don't want to see that happen again and work as IGrok, Balrog and Palmar respectively.
|
On September 21 2011 21:40 syllogism wrote:
You should probably retire from mafia if you really believe he could be a townie doing it for fun at this point. You don't even need his claim to see he isn't playing like a townie would
You haven't made any convincing arguments in your filter, and you completely ignore the precident set by WBG. If you think IGrok is so obviously a scumbag, make a solid case against him, rather than blanket statements designed to offend anyone that disagrees.
Aside from being angry he survived your attack for what ever reason, I'm not sure why your pushing to lynch IGrok. You claim to have survived a hit for whatever reason too, don't let it blind you from potentially better candidates.
I would advise you to look at my argument against Palmar on the previous page, I would like to know your opinion on him.
|
On September 21 2011 22:54 prplhz wrote:
@drazerk
why would it be idiotic to shoot him? why do you even think anybody is gonna shoot someone who already survived a hit somehow? why do you want to keep a guy alive whose only defense is a claim, and who then magically survives a hit even though his claim said nothing about that ability? the guy needs to die and a lynch is the only way to go.
although i'm interested in any case you think you can make against jack/pyo/rad.
Let's not forget the other people that survived a hit and didn't claim at all so hastily.
What do you think of Palmar?
|
^Erm I should clarify that those aren't related statements.
|
On September 21 2011 23:00 prplhz wrote:
what? palmar is in this game?
why do you even want my opinion, i'm confirmed town. i'm not gonna scumslip or anything. maybe you should focus on people who actually might be scum.
Because there may be better targets in the game then the one you choose to tunnel.
Aside from surviving a shot, I haven't seen any cases made against him since his claim.
That I would find enough in itself usually, but two other people already survived a hit today, the first of which (chaoser) promised to pay his debts.
|
What, you thought confirmed town meant you could just bandwagon willy nilly?
|
On September 21 2011 23:08 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
What, you thought confirmed town meant you could just bandwagon willy nilly?
I should add to that.
You are the sole person all townies can trust, and therefore when you say something we can be assured you don't have an ulterior motive. I don't want to see that wasted because you don't properly review all of the evidence and instead hop on a mafia fuelled bandwagon.
|
On September 21 2011 23:27 prplhz wrote:
uhmn isn't it a bit weird that igrok claimed after 3 pressure votes. i mean, a lot of people got 3 votes during day1 and they didn't claim, i've actually never seen anyone claim after just 3 votes and we weren't that far into the day, a lot of things could have happened. i think igrok felt very guilty and thinks the case against him is pretty strong, because he is scum. and that made him claim some shit he just made up.
also @drazerk
but medics don't protect through day. thus he's either a veteran or he's somehow immune to ##cleave, no matter what then he lied about his role. also, why would any medic protect igrok, he is scummy as hell and he didn't contribute during day1 at all.
The way I've been looking at it, his assassination target get mod-killed and that caused the claim.
I'd be much more concerned about him surviving "##Cleave" if two other people hadn't survived attacks, including the person who activated the '##Cleave'. It's likely any medics heals do last for the day too, we should force a role claim from both chaoser and syllogism first before declaring that to not be a possibility in a closed setup.
There are six options here for things I believe IGrok could be:
1) Mafia, somehow surviving the attack.
2) Town, trolling, maybe thinking it's a kinda cool claim.
3) Telling the truth, not actually sure how he survived.
4) He may have purposely left part of his role out for some reason, but I doubt it.
5) An immune third party, which means we won't be left with any information on other scum.
6) Town, blue role hiding under third party claim.
Without more information on how the others survived too, it's hard to piece together anything. If you can make a case based off actions he made that aren't explained by his current claim, I am all ears, but so he seems like a convenient lynch for the mafia to take because they are relying on us to stop talking about the other targets in the meantime.
See also.
On September 21 2011 20:20 Palmar wrote:
How is this even a discussion? Murder the shit out of iGrok.
|
On September 22 2011 00:28 chaoser wrote:
##vote iGrok
Says he was filtering DrH's posts. Never did.
Said he had analysis. He actually never did any.
Says a medic protected him. One, why would any medic protect him? Two, Medics generally only protect in the night which is what makes day vigis so powerful.
Says he's a third party that wants to help us but needs the ring. First of all, we don't know if that IS ACTUALLY your wincon, second of all you haven't been a help to town yet, why should we trust you to suddenly become helpful all of a sudden after you get the ring? You could just lurk the fuck out. This is protactinium all over again and this time I've learned my lesson.
This is a dangerous post because it contains misinformation.
I double checked IGrok's filter because of it to look for anything else and try and throw a vote on.
He posted an analysis on Palmar in the very same post as his claim that relied on Palmar trying to confirm himself off DocH, so I'm tempted to believe you didn't read it.
More than anything though, it would help us if you explained how you allegedly survived an attack, to compare and contrast to IGrok's reasoning.
|
On September 22 2011 00:51 syllogism wrote:
He already took a hit and didn't die
And so did you apparently.
How?
|
On September 22 2011 00:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 00:51 syllogism wrote:
He already took a hit and didn't die And so did you apparently. How?
Also I'm still looking for an answer from back when I asked your opinion on Palmar.
|
On September 22 2011 01:11 Palmar wrote:
I'm not apathetic you derp, I'm highly enthusiastic about lynching iGrok!
Even if in some crazy world his claim is true (I don't fucking believe it for a second), then he's a survivor and can as well ally with the mafia if they do well.
Just kill him, I think he's not third party, I think he's scum, and should be deaded.
Use some of that enthusiasm and respond to the case he made against you
+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2011 19:31 iGrok wrote:Oh, ##vote: Palmar. For everything I said earlier. + Show Spoiler [For those of you who skipped my big post] +On September 18 2011 08:24 Palmar wrote:
hey guys, I'm in a good mood so I'm not gonna ruin it by reading the thread. See you tomorrow This was his first post. Nothing scummy here, but it sets the mood for everything else he posts. Now, here's a list of his opinions since then. Radfield, WBG, ErrandorprplhzDrHRadfield, himself, Sandroba, PyoPause. Next post. On September 20 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:
prplhz should probably give the ring away to his strongest townread. I'd go with one of Radfield, Sandroba, myself and pyo. Derp... prplhz said he doesn't actually have the ring. In any case, if you're lying, you should consider giving it away. btw, Sandroba is almost definitely town, but only if he takes his vote off me. I'm basically confirmed town from my exchanges with DrH, but only people like sandroba/syllo etc will see it. We need to keep an eye on syllo... yarly. chaoser is also very likely town. I don't like the smell of iGrok and Kita... Here, minimal interaction with DrH is played off as enough to auto-confirm him. This post sets off alarm bells in my head. Palmar contributed 4 posts before DrH died, 2 of which were "Herp I'm not reading the thread" (He was obviously reading the thread). Its his fourth post that interests me: "DrH is giving me really bad vibes." At the time, it looked like just another throwaway post. But post DrH's death, this post looks more like DrH new he was going to be modkilled and Palmar jumped out early to get a townie point. For the rest of the game, two things are going on. He puts faith in Radfield, and he continues to stress Sandroba town. (yes theres other shit but those're the important parts) Palmar already feels scummy. So lets continue on that assumption, and introduce possibilities. 1)Radfield and Sandroba are both town. If this is true, then Palmar is trying to gain town cred when they flip. With sandroba acting scummy and a possible lynch, and Radfield a good mafia target, thats two points for him. Fits with calling DrH scum.2)Radfield is town, Sandroba is scum. This is using Radfield's town cred to make Sandroba look better. Even those who don't trust Palmar will subliminally put them on closer levels. If sandroba didn't look so damn scummy, it might work.3)Radfield is scum, Sandroba is town. I just... don't see this as possible.4)Both are scum. I don't know what this would mean actually
And while your at it, care to answer my questions about you?
+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2011 21:10 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 20:20 Palmar wrote:
How is this even a discussion? Murder the shit out of iGrok. This post aroused some serious suspcions on Palmar when I read it, he wants to shutdown discussion on other possible scum candidates apparently. I took a look through his filter for some background, and subsequently lead me to believe he is scum. When prodded by Syllogism to provide some background, he returns with this: Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 19:12 Palmar wrote:On September 21 2011 17:29 syllogism wrote:On September 21 2011 17:22 Palmar wrote:
rofl, die scum die Are you going to do anything useful all game? I'm voting iGrok! If bandwagoning is useful, then sure he's a great help. But in the interests of being fair, let's look more at his voting on IGrok: Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 22:32 Palmar wrote:
Erandorr worked because it was less bad a bandwagon than the others, which has now become apparent. DrH should really have been it, but I wasn't around to push them buttons. I never asked whom you have a town read on, giving that away would be incredibly stupid. I asked if you actually had a town read on someone, (the alternative being you don't have a town read on anyone). I was basically provoking you into start thinking about townies you can trust.
But I know it's extremely hard to work with you're stubborn and have really bad reads. I just hope that you'll be able to figure out what to do if you actually are the ring bearer. And I hope our medics understand that you're a great target tonight too.
In any case, it's time to lynch mafia.
##Vote iGrok Up until this point, his comments on IGrok were Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:
I don't like the smell of iGrok and Kita... Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:59 Palmar wrote:
iGrok's play is so much more passive and less assertive than it was in Ace's game. I'm thinking he's scummery. I'm gonna read the context of his posts better, but just a quick filter and you can see he's not really pushing any ideas, he's just being derp and making one-liners and lists.
So he doesn't like IGroks smell, and the rest of his reasoning relies on meta. It doesn't get any better as time passes Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:31 Palmar wrote:
Radfield, I'm looking at iGrok. I haven't gotten overly scummy vibes from anyone else (apart from DrH, but he's dead).
Syllogism is... dangerous, he's echoing what Sandroba and I are saying which makes sense if he's town, but he'd do it as scum anyway, because as soon as he disagrees on bad reasoning he's scum. He has made a few good calls though, but I expect him too, both as scum and town.
So the rest are probably lurking, or they're people like Jackal whose alignment I simply can't deduce due to him having a meta of being useless/wrong enough as town that I can't figure him out as scum.
Thing is, townies like posting more than mafia does, and I have quite a few good town reads. I'm actually reading now, so it'll pick up soon enough. We can only lynch one guy today anyway, and iGrok is a great candidate.
Go compare his style this game to his style as town in Ace's game, I'm not talking about content or amount, I'm talking about attitude and context. Notice how everything he uses is purely meta? This in itself is fine, but if you want to use meta, you have to do more than simply mention the word meta. He doesn't prove a comparison of IGrok's current playstyle to this meta, nor does he choose to bring up anything related to IGrok's actions in the current game. I'm not sold on IGrok either, but if this counts as a reason to vote for someone and useful contribution, somethings wrong. ##Unvote##Vote Palmar
I feel like this whole case on iGrok is just mafia leading the lynch, because aside from his apparently senseless claim there isn't much on him. He could have just done what Palmar is doing right now and ignored anything that put him in a negative light, but he chose to come forward with his role, and now I believe the mafia are using the role claim to blind town from the questions we raise on them, the most notable of which being iGroks argument against Palmar attached to his role claim.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
