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Lord of the Rings Mafia - Page 13

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
September 17 2011 07:15 GMT
#241
Ring is passed at night. I've updated the OP with this.
wat
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 17 2011 07:22 GMT
#242
On September 17 2011 15:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TranceStorm has a bad plan. Big deal, hopefully he can be made to see the problem with it. The main problem is that this game is not about confirming townies using mechanics we don't understand the goal is to find and catch scum.

Wherebugsgo I don't know your metagame but here's what I see.

1. begging for the ring in every post
2. vague allusions to why you want it
3. voting for TranceStorm and FOSing him with no reasons.

You're playing absolutely detrimental to town. This is not pro-town play, it is not how we catch scum. It's how shit gets stirred and people always let bad scum like this slide (coag in countless games) because they figure "oh no way scum would act so brashly or bad".

##Vote wherebugsgo

At the very least, if you aren't scum, you are a stellar example of how town players should never act


Bitch please. I can make lists too.

1. Give me the ring.
2. I haven't alluded to why I want it.
3. TranceStorm is scum, it's obvious enough. I don't need to provide reasons when he sets himself up as he's already done.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 17 2011 07:25 GMT
#243
On September 17 2011 15:25 Ciryandor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 15:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TranceStorm has a bad plan. Big deal, hopefully he can be made to see the problem with it. The main problem is that this game is not about confirming townies using mechanics we don't understand the goal is to find and catch scum.

Wherebugsgo I don't know your metagame but here's what I see.

1. begging for the ring in every post
2. vague allusions to why you want it
3. voting for TranceStorm and FOSing him with no reasons.

You're playing absolutely detrimental to town. This is not pro-town play, it is not how we catch scum. It's how shit gets stirred and people always let bad scum like this slide (coag in countless games) because they figure "oh no way scum would act so brashly or bad".

##Vote wherebugsgo

At the very least, if you aren't scum, you are a stellar example of how town players should never act


Are you saying that his activity is a good reason why he should be a policy lynch, for being detrimental to village planning and strategy? I sort of agree, but TranceStorm's strategy only means that it exposes townies, because it's easy enough for a scum who cannot wield the ring's power to its full extent to be deprived of it by or pass it to a bigger scum who can actually make use of it if the initial ring-bearer throws it to them, which would blow the whole tactic out of the water. Also, it could have negative repercussions by allowing a nominally cleared scum player to actually take out townies from within.


This guy is scum/dumb too
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
September 17 2011 07:26 GMT
#244
You aren't impressing me
RIP Aaliyah
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 07:26 GMT
#245
The OP also indicates that there is at least one role capable of stealing the ring, likely gollum, and possibly other items, so you should under no circumstances claim that you have the ring, especially now that we know passing it is a night action. It's unclear which action takes priority, stealing or passing the ring, and curu isn't willing to elaborate.

Even if you are about to be lynched and you have the ring, I can't really come up with a compelling reason to claim that you have it, except perhaps if the ring has powers that can be used in a pro town fashion and you can demonstrate that you've done so, thus possibly saving us from mislynch. If you get lynched, it will just narrow down the list of potential owners,.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 17 2011 07:35 GMT
#246
On September 17 2011 16:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
You aren't impressing me


Not like you're doing anything either doc

+ Show Spoiler +
give me the ring


syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 07:40 GMT
#247
wbg you are being completely worthless, even detrimental to town. Are you gollum by any chance? Seems to fit better than scum, as I don't think your scum play can be this bad.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
September 17 2011 07:41 GMT
#248
Yes. I am.

Give me the ring and I'll find scum for you.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 07:52 GMT
#249
Even if you really are gollum, you are going to get vigied/lynched if you keep that up. No player gets an exemption from scum hunting.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
September 17 2011 08:07 GMT
#250
does your role require you to shitpost or is it just something you do for fun
RIP Aaliyah
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
September 17 2011 09:23 GMT
#251
On September 17 2011 16:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
Yes. I am.

Give me the ring and I'll find scum for you.


Find scum and we will give you the ring.

Not the other way around.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 17 2011 09:39 GMT
#252
On September 17 2011 15:52 TranceStorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 15:36 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On September 17 2011 15:03 TranceStorm wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:57 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On September 17 2011 14:36 TranceStorm wrote:
Debating about who should get the ring and what each role can or cannot do at the moment is pointless at the current time. However, I do like one of the plans that was proposed by a few people: having the person who successfully passed on the ring claim themselves. This way, we can enable a 'chain' to be made - i.e. the first player can confirm the second player once the second player has passed on the ring themselves. This is all dependent on the assumption that evil players cannot pass the ring themselves which as Radfield pointed out, is probably a true assumption.

Given this, however, this plan would probably only be effective for the first few 'passes' and perhaps near the end of the game when town circles become more clear. The risk after the first few days that the person holding the ring is killed, or has the ring stolen (which is a possible role according to the OP) makes the plan ineffective.

Therefore, I think that such a plan should work for the first 2 or 3 days to confirm at least one or two people. Any thoughts or ideas about this? I haven't fully fleshed this out yet (i.e. the possibility of fake claims is strong), but its probably a better discussion than the arbitrary finger-pointing going on at the moment.


I'm not sure if you realise it or not but that plan sounds awfully anti-town.
How do we guarantee that even those 1-3 people can pass the ring in the first place?
And even if they can, how does that confirm anybody?

In this game, only people with roles that relate to the ring should bother searching for it secretly, and if the ring is passed it will either be the fruits of their efforts or a complete accident.
As for the effects of the ring, there is no real way to find out, the only people that know are the ring bearers and mentioning that you have it/explaining what it does is virtually ensuring you get killed overnight in the hopes that you can't pass it.

First, if the players in question cannot pass the ring, then the plan does not go into effect. A player only announces that they had the ring in the previous turn. If they can't pass it on, they stay silent and we are none the wiser.

Second, given Radfield's argument that evil players probably don't have the mechanic to pass the ring (otherwise they would pass it amongst themselves), if we can get two successive passes, that would confirm at least one player. The danger of course is passing to a mafia player, but that probability initially is small.

At any rate, I think it is pretty likely that the ring will worm into non-town hands (whether 3rd party or mafia) given that non-town players will constantly search and probe every turn. There's no way to comprehensively prevent them from getting the ring, therefore, why not get some benefit to it.

Finally, another point that can be made is that the player who passes on the ring and reveals themselves can also reveal what the ring does. Given that every player already covets it, it would be nice to at least have that information.


So basically you want people to say "I had the ring guys, I managed to pass it off, but I'm not saying to who" and maybe list it's effects?
We can't be sure evil players can't pass the ring, and if the person who claimed to have got rid of it was telling the truth or not.
There is way too much uncertainty, and I believe only a non-town party would be trying to push a bad plan to get the ring
Unless you can come up with a really good reason you care so much about the ring bearer
##Vote TranceStorm

I don't understand why someone saying 'I had the ring guys, I managed to pass it off, but I'm not saying to who' would be that harmful. If they do so, they can also reveal what the ring does which reduces much of the speculation about what the ring actually does and how it affects the game.

I agree that there is uncertainty. That's why I dropped the whole 'chain' part. I see that it is far too risky and I assumed to much. But having one player (who can choose to do this or not and specifically when they want to do so as well) claim after passing the ring on and telling the town about the ring's effects would help. Of course, this would cause alot of scrutiny, but that would be no different from when any other person claims a role.

And if you believe that I'm scum, that's fine, but you would be making an incorrect choice. In the end, it was simply an idea I had to bounce around ideas. Did our discussion harm the town? No it didn't.


That would be harmful IMO becouse of following reasons:

1. IMO it's obvious that mafia want's to control the Ring.

2. If I was mafia, i would want to know every info i can get of the Ring, especially in the first day when there is nothing much to talk about besides the hidden powers in game.

3. Do you think it would be more benefit to town (than to maf) to claim you passed the ring, and revealed what you could do with it. Consider tha following scenario: I had the ring and just passed it. I claim that, and i also claim the power of the Ring. If mafia believes my claim, they have one less suspect of ring carriers. They also could analyze my posts and have at least some idea who i did pass the ring (and for sure who i did absolutely not pass it). When i claim what the ring does, i could think that it would be at least softclaiming my role (considering the ring plays different with different roles).

So TranceStorm, do you think this scenario benefits town over mafia? Or does anyone think i got something wrong here?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 17 2011 09:47 GMT
#253
On September 17 2011 18:23 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 16:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
Yes. I am.

Give me the ring and I'll find scum for you.


Find scum and we will give you the ring.

Not the other way around.


rofl, exactly my thoughts.

What are you going to accomplish with that attitude WBG?
table for two on a tv tray
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
September 17 2011 09:59 GMT
#254
Looking at it I think WBG is probably lying with his claim and using it as an excuse to post bad and try and get the ring.
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
September 17 2011 10:22 GMT
#255
On September 17 2011 13:37 chaos13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 10:35 xtfftc wrote:

On September 17 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:

Posts like this(mine) should not be given consideration when you are trying to determine a players alignment.


They definitely should be.


Nope. The entire content of his post was all based on game mechanics. Game mechanics reveal zero about a player's alignment, so if you give people town cred for posting that, the whole mafia team is going to do it and pretty soon you're completely fucked.

Nope. Discussions about game mechanics often reveal bits of information about people's alignment. More importantly, the reactions to these discussions provide information as well. Compared to trolling, discussing lore, speculating about game mechanics and jumping on random people, this is by far the best way to start a proper discussion. Something you seem interested in not doing... Would you say that the current theorycrafting exercise is getting us any closer to catching mafia?

+ Show Spoiler [Pointless theorycrafting] +

As a side note, it would be rather fun if WBG is indeed Gollum and part of his role is asking for the ring in every single post he makes. And I know I just said that theorycrafting gets us nowhere near to catching mafia but I can't help myself. Assuming that Gollum is capable of stealing the ring, we can not afford to kill him, no matter how annoying he becomes. If mafia get the ring, Gollum would likely be our best chance of retrieving it back from them - and we all agree that Sauron or Saruman being in possession of the ring is a really bad situation for town.
Actually, WBG already has two posts that don't mention the ring but perhaps it doesn't have to be every post but he has a quota instead?
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
September 17 2011 10:23 GMT
#256
Also, none of the currently discussed lynch targets are viable. They are all easy ones. I'd rather go for a random lynch out of the remaining players.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
September 17 2011 10:29 GMT
#257
WBG what is your win con
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
September 17 2011 10:32 GMT
#258
On September 17 2011 19:22 xtfftc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 13:37 chaos13 wrote:
On September 17 2011 10:35 xtfftc wrote:

On September 17 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:

Posts like this(mine) should not be given consideration when you are trying to determine a players alignment.


They definitely should be.


Nope. The entire content of his post was all based on game mechanics. Game mechanics reveal zero about a player's alignment, so if you give people town cred for posting that, the whole mafia team is going to do it and pretty soon you're completely fucked.

Nope. Discussions about game mechanics often reveal bits of information about people's alignment. More importantly, the reactions to these discussions provide information as well. Compared to trolling, discussing lore, speculating about game mechanics and jumping on random people, this is by far the best way to start a proper discussion. Something you seem interested in not doing... Would you say that the current theorycrafting exercise is getting us any closer to catching mafia?

+ Show Spoiler [Pointless theorycrafting] +

As a side note, it would be rather fun if WBG is indeed Gollum and part of his role is asking for the ring in every single post he makes. And I know I just said that theorycrafting gets us nowhere near to catching mafia but I can't help myself. Assuming that Gollum is capable of stealing the ring, we can not afford to kill him, no matter how annoying he becomes. If mafia get the ring, Gollum would likely be our best chance of retrieving it back from them - and we all agree that Sauron or Saruman being in possession of the ring is a really bad situation for town.
Actually, WBG already has two posts that don't mention the ring but perhaps it doesn't have to be every post but he has a quota instead?


I think he is lying and that may of been a slip up ( Like my caller posting restriction in WAW2 )
Vain
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Netherlands1115 Posts
September 17 2011 11:13 GMT
#259
On September 17 2011 19:23 xtfftc wrote:
Also, none of the currently discussed lynch targets are viable. They are all easy ones. I'd rather go for a random lynch out of the remaining players.


Well who do you suggest then?
Battle.net 2.0 is a waiter and he's a dick
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
September 17 2011 11:26 GMT
#260
On September 17 2011 19:22 xtfftc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 13:37 chaos13 wrote:
On September 17 2011 10:35 xtfftc wrote:

On September 17 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:

Posts like this(mine) should not be given consideration when you are trying to determine a players alignment.


They definitely should be.


Nope. The entire content of his post was all based on game mechanics. Game mechanics reveal zero about a player's alignment, so if you give people town cred for posting that, the whole mafia team is going to do it and pretty soon you're completely fucked.

Nope. Discussions about game mechanics often reveal bits of information about people's alignment. More importantly, the reactions to these discussions provide information as well. Compared to trolling, discussing lore, speculating about game mechanics and jumping on random people, this is by far the best way to start a proper discussion. Something you seem interested in not doing... Would you say that the current theorycrafting exercise is getting us any closer to catching mafia?

+ Show Spoiler [Pointless theorycrafting] +

As a side note, it would be rather fun if WBG is indeed Gollum and part of his role is asking for the ring in every single post he makes. And I know I just said that theorycrafting gets us nowhere near to catching mafia but I can't help myself. Assuming that Gollum is capable of stealing the ring, we can not afford to kill him, no matter how annoying he becomes. If mafia get the ring, Gollum would likely be our best chance of retrieving it back from them - and we all agree that Sauron or Saruman being in possession of the ring is a really bad situation for town.
Actually, WBG already has two posts that don't mention the ring but perhaps it doesn't have to be every post but he has a quota instead?


i was thinking the same about wbg and I also filtered him. wbgs post seem to be artificial to me.
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