Lord of the Rings Mafia - Page 12

On September 17 2011 14:48 Jackal58 wrote:

pfffff
I already have 10 acres with electricity.

On September 17 2011 14:36 TranceStorm wrote:
Debating about who should get the ring and what each role can or cannot do at the moment is pointless at the current time. However, I do like one of the plans that was proposed by a few people: having the person who successfully passed on the ring claim themselves. This way, we can enable a 'chain' to be made - i.e. the first player can confirm the second player once the second player has passed on the ring themselves. This is all dependent on the assumption that evil players cannot pass the ring themselves which as Radfield pointed out, is probably a true assumption.

Given this, however, this plan would probably only be effective for the first few 'passes' and perhaps near the end of the game when town circles become more clear. The risk after the first few days that the person holding the ring is killed, or has the ring stolen (which is a possible role according to the OP) makes the plan ineffective.

Therefore, I think that such a plan should work for the first 2 or 3 days to confirm at least one or two people. Any thoughts or ideas about this? I haven't fully fleshed this out yet (i.e. the possibility of fake claims is strong), but its probably a better discussion than the arbitrary finger-pointing going on at the moment.

On September 17 2011 13:37 chaos13 wrote:


Nope. The entire content of his post was all based on game mechanics. Game mechanics reveal zero about a player's alignment, so if you give people town cred for posting that, the whole mafia team is going to do it and pretty soon you're completely fucked.
...

Anymore discussion about this is wasted. Starting now look at some of the posts people have made, try to figure out what the intent of them is. Ask people questions. Scum hate being asked what they think of the alignment of their scumbuddies, they want to keep to the shadows. Let's not give them what they want.

On September 17 2011 14:57 Cyber_Cheese wrote:


I'm not sure if you realise it or not but that plan sounds awfully anti-town.
How do we guarantee that even those 1-3 people can pass the ring in the first place?
And even if they can, how does that confirm anybody?

In this game, only people with roles that relate to the ring should bother searching for it secretly, and if the ring is passed it will either be the fruits of their efforts or a complete accident.
As for the effects of the ring, there is no real way to find out, the only people that know are the ring bearers and mentioning that you have it/explaining what it does is virtually ensuring you get killed overnight in the hopes that you can't pass it.

On September 17 2011 15:03 TranceStorm wrote:

First, if the players in question cannot pass the ring, then the plan does not go into effect. A player only announces that they had the ring in the previous turn. If they can't pass it on, they stay silent and we are none the wiser.

Second, given Radfield's argument that evil players probably don't have the mechanic to pass the ring (otherwise they would pass it amongst themselves), if we can get two successive passes, that would confirm at least one player. The danger of course is passing to a mafia player, but that probability initially is small.

At any rate, I think it is pretty likely that the ring will worm into non-town hands (whether 3rd party or mafia) given that non-town players will constantly search and probe every turn. There's no way to comprehensively prevent them from getting the ring, therefore, why not get some benefit to it.

Finally, another point that can be made is that the player who passes on the ring and reveals themselves can also reveal what the ring does. Given that every player already covets it, it would be nice to at least have that information.

On September 17 2011 15:03 TranceStorm wrote:

First, if the players in question cannot pass the ring, then the plan does not go into effect. A player only announces that they had the ring in the previous turn. If they can't pass it on, they stay silent and we are none the wiser.

Second, given Radfield's argument that evil players probably don't have the mechanic to pass the ring (otherwise they would pass it amongst themselves), if we can get two successive passes, that would confirm at least one player. The danger of course is passing to a mafia player, but that probability initially is small.

At any rate, I think it is pretty likely that the ring will worm into non-town hands (whether 3rd party or mafia) given that non-town players will constantly search and probe every turn. There's no way to comprehensively prevent them from getting the ring, therefore, why not get some benefit to it.

Finally, another point that can be made is that the player who passes on the ring and reveals themselves can also reveal what the ring does. Given that every player already covets it, it would be nice to at least have that information.

On September 17 2011 15:10 Ciryandor wrote:

Why would they have to expose themselves? Given the fact that the Ring more likely than not provides some sort of power according to one's stature/role; any scum that have an interest in it would take the first opportunity to kill the bearer so they could claim it for their own in order to enhance their powers;

and one could easily take it by force if someone claims it after getting passed on and not state that they passed it on as well.

Your insistence in putting the ring-bearer as of now into the open with this strategy is something that merits scrutiny, it distracts the Forces of Good getting at less active players by attracting attention to you if you are town, but I have a vibe you have scummy tendencies.

On September 17 2011 15:17 TranceStorm wrote:

I divided your posts into three parts.
(1) My point is that the only time a person ever claims is if they have passed the ring on to another player. They don't reveal who that other player is. The mafia don't know who that second player is.
(2) Sorry. I don't quite understand what you are getting at here. You wouldn't claim that you just got the ring. The key is that if two successive passes are done - then we have two players who can confirm each other. (i.e. player 1 says that he did pass it to player 2 on turn x and player 2 confirms this).
(3) At least my plan is generating important discussion compared to the silly banter thats currently going on. If someone else would like to generate serious discussion, I would invite them to do so.

On September 17 2011 15:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TranceStorm has a bad plan. Big deal, hopefully he can be made to see the problem with it. The main problem is that this game is not about confirming townies using mechanics we don't understand the goal is to find and catch scum.

Wherebugsgo I don't know your metagame but here's what I see.

1. begging for the ring in every post
2. vague allusions to why you want it
3. voting for TranceStorm and FOSing him with no reasons.

You're playing absolutely detrimental to town. This is not pro-town play, it is not how we catch scum. It's how shit gets stirred and people always let bad scum like this slide (coag in countless games) because they figure "oh no way scum would act so brashly or bad".

##Vote wherebugsgo

At the very least, if you aren't scum, you are a stellar example of how town players should never act

On September 17 2011 15:25 Ciryandor wrote:


Are you saying that his activity is a good reason why he should be a policy lynch, for being detrimental to village planning and strategy? I sort of agree, but TranceStorm's strategy only means that it exposes townies, because it's easy enough for a scum who cannot wield the ring's power to its full extent to be deprived of it by or pass it to a bigger scum who can actually make use of it if the initial ring-bearer throws it to them, which would blow the whole tactic out of the water. Also, it could have negative repercussions by allowing a nominally cleared scum player to actually take out townies from within.

On September 17 2011 15:27 TranceStorm wrote:
@DrH. Fine, those are valid points. I didn't fully flesh out my plan as well as I imagined it would be and underestimated the risks.

But, wouldn't it be a good idea to set the rule that if a player does ever pass on the ring, they reveal its powers? We already know that everyone wants the ring (both town and non-town) so I think it would be beneficial to town discussion to know the ring powers. (if they don't change like you fear they might).

On September 17 2011 15:03 TranceStorm wrote:

First, if the players in question cannot pass the ring, then the plan does not go into effect. A player only announces that they had the ring in the previous turn. If they can't pass it on, they stay silent and we are none the wiser.

Second, given Radfield's argument that evil players probably don't have the mechanic to pass the ring (otherwise they would pass it amongst themselves), if we can get two successive passes, that would confirm at least one player. The danger of course is passing to a mafia player, but that probability initially is small.

At any rate, I think it is pretty likely that the ring will worm into non-town hands (whether 3rd party or mafia) given that non-town players will constantly search and probe every turn. There's no way to comprehensively prevent them from getting the ring, therefore, why not get some benefit to it.

Finally, another point that can be made is that the player who passes on the ring and reveals themselves can also reveal what the ring does. Given that every player already covets it, it would be nice to at least have that information.

On September 17 2011 15:27 TranceStorm wrote:
@DrH. Fine, those are valid points. I didn't fully flesh out my plan as well as I imagined it would be and underestimated the risks.

But, wouldn't it be a good idea to set the rule that if a player does ever pass on the ring, they reveal its powers? We already know that everyone wants the ring (both town and non-town) so I think it would be beneficial to town discussion to know the ring powers. (if they don't change like you fear they might).

On September 17 2011 15:36 Cyber_Cheese wrote:


So basically you want people to say "I had the ring guys, I managed to pass it off, but I'm not saying to who" and maybe list it's effects?
We can't be sure evil players can't pass the ring, and if the person who claimed to have got rid of it was telling the truth or not.
There is way too much uncertainty, and I believe only a non-town party would be trying to push a bad plan to get the ring
Unless you can come up with a really good reason you care so much about the ring bearer
##Vote TranceStorm

On September 17 2011 15:43 GreYMisT wrote:


I think that the powers of the ring should be treated sort of like a DTs checklist from what I understand. Keep your checks hidden until you fill its nessesary to come out to the town as a DT and provide nessesary information. Likewise with the ring. keep the fact that you have/had it hidden, but If the town enters a situation where that knowledge would be helpful, reveal it with the knowledge that you now have a giant target painted on your head.