EPTI'll be away for this weekend though.
Some Mafia Game
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Zona
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I'll be away for this weekend though. | ||
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I'm still reading and will post more appropriately. ##vote iGrok | ||
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On September 08 2011 11:11 chaos13 wrote: I'm not defending JeeJee. In fact, I think he's right up there with GGQ in terms of scumminess. What I am doing is pressuring GGQ because I can see him posting from a mafia perspective. Why the hell are you defending GGQ? Please tell us why you think JeeJee is scummy. | ||
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On September 08 2011 09:04 xtfftc wrote: On a serious note, the problem with your argument is that I got into trouble in XLIV precisely because of the very same behaviour: accusing four players in no time. The only thing you can read in this is that I'm a bad player but this is something we all know. The "I did it because I'm a bad player" is the worst excuse possible. If you realized that your multiple accusations very early in XLIV didn't work out well for you, why did you do it again? I'm also surprised you're not claiming that you were joking. | ||
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On September 08 2011 07:32 GGQ wrote: 9) then bum jumps on the bandwagon against me based on the incorrect assumption that I was pointing fingers at him. Curious how bum and JeeJee are interacting here... To sum up, JeeJee and bum have been misinterpreting and misrepresenting me. This is something that is done either by scum trying to lead a mislynch or by townies who fail at reading comprehension. Which one are you guys? On September 08 2011 10:16 GGQ wrote: When did I accuse him of being scum? I gave him two options, and frankly I think it's more likely that JeeJee is misguided towny than mafia atm. My post wasn't an accusation, but an outline of misunderstandings, logic fails, and suspicious behavior. ... If this is the kind of logic and analysis we are going to have all game, then gg we lose. The first part does really look like an accusation of scumminess to me, but then it gets denied. And the last part I quoted stinks. | ||
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I'm not on board the theawesomeall lynch. If I haven't made any mistakes, these are the people who have voted for him so far. Curu's vote on theawesomeall has nothing attached, but he adds a case later: "irrelevant posts + responses, shifting view on a case" iGrok votes theawesomeall "for his incredibly short posts" and "for his suspicion of GGQ" sandroba's entire short post history has igrok and xfttfc as suspicious - then a vote on theawesomeall right after with no reasoning, and basically nothing after Palmar says igrok almost definitely not scum, likes theawesomeall as a better lynch candidate than GGQ jackal58 says the game is difficult to read, "JeeJee needed to be hit upside the head with a 2X4. Why the hell are you (chaos) defending him (JeeJee)?", then votes theawesomeall later because of theawesomeall's post and vote on bumatlarge xtfftc "putting himself out there from the very beginning", but believes theawesomeall hasn't done much of value, and doesn't like how theawesomeall has been changing votes "to draw attention away...". mig "would be down with lynching palmar/igrok/taa" then focuses solely on attacking Palmar, until finally "I will switch before deadline if it looks like no one will to palmar. I will probably switch to TAA." bumatlarge first votes GGQ with "But then GGQ, instead of pointing this out, points a finger at me for something he initially agreed with." then votes iGrok with "I think TheAwesomeAll is mentally ill, but not mafia...BA was very accurate that iGrok's posts have a distinct aura of fear and discomfort, different from what you usually see him post.", then finally votes theawesomeall, quoting a wherebugsgo post suspicious of Mig or Palmar. My vote now is on GGQ, I'm willing to switch to Curu, Mig, or sandroba (despite how close the deadline is). I don't like Curu's posts, and he's playing a lot differently from Arkham. | ||
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for xtfftc, I meant: xtfftc "I don't like iGrok for lynch for the same reason as GGQ: he is putting himself out there from the very beginning", but believes theawesomeall hasn't done much of value, and doesn't like how theawesomeall has been changing votes "to draw attention away...". | ||
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On September 09 2011 11:07 JeeJee wrote: I call major bullshit on this. check the timestamps, all of my major content posts were made before you wrote that post. I didn't make "about two posts of content after that", this is a deliberate lie to absolve yourself of responsibility. If you're a cop, I think chaos is a great visit based on this alone. Oh hey, I don't know if you realized it, but counting only your posts before you made this defense against chaos's accusation that you only had "2 posts with content"...guess what, you only had 2 posts with content. (If you count your "Why not?" reply as content...then 3). | ||
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On September 09 2011 12:11 wherebugsgo wrote: Where the eff is sinani? He hasn't posted since he derpvoted me. Which is over 36 hours ago, too. | ||
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Part of a town player's responsibility is to not appear suspicious, so the town doesn't mislynch them, but you look very blatantly suspicious, and it's now time to change that. Curu, please inform us as to exactly when you decided that your vote was serious, rather than a game-start random vote. | ||
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On September 09 2011 14:26 sinani206 wrote: fuck i missed the vote screw homework homework didn't stop you from posting in another thread at September 09 2011 09:44. Interesting, that is. Plus, you could actually start talking about the game now that it's Night 1. | ||
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On September 09 2011 08:50 bumatlarge wrote: I think TheAwesomeAll is mentally ill, but not mafia. On September 09 2011 11:26 bumatlarge wrote: ##vote: TheAwesomeAll The post you quote when voting TheAwesomeAll talks about Mig/Palmar, then states "keep it between TAA and iGrok" - but you already had your vote on iGrok. What made you decide to vote for TheAwesomeAll instead? | ||
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It's interesting you guys are focusing on attacking each other. Mig, you haven't provided anything else, and your case on Palmar is way too flimsy for you to focus solely on him. Your vote on TheAwesomeAll is also completely unexplained. You have a lot of explaining to do. Palmar has at least talked about other things, but he slips in two requests for a vigilante to shoot Mig. Are the two of you on different sides and that afraid of each other? I haven't seen this kind of behavior out of both of you when you're both town. Or perhaps you two are both scum bussing each other? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11037252 I really want to more from sandroba, mig, and sinani. sandroba's been gone for >24 hours, and he still has to answer for his out of nowhere vote for theawesomeall sinani's given us nothing to work with mig's given us nothing but a tunnel on palmar, but I expect a lot more from him. | ||
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I want to HEAR more from sandroba, mig, and sinani. | ||
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I don't have time to post more right now, I'll be back later. | ||
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I was shot AND roleblocked last night. I don't believe I was a realistic vig target, so I believe mafia performed both actions on me. Usually you wouldn't expect mafia to stack both actions on a target this way, but I'm guessing they spotted my breadcrumb in this post. You need to quote the post to see the breadcrumb "8 bang", which is supposed to represent a shot on player #8 on the list, bumatlarge. Why bumatlarge? On September 07 2011 11:40 bumatlarge wrote: Let's talk about irrelevant things in ace's game! This set-up is weird is completely closed so I'm gonna throw it out there that I think everyone has some sort of ability. Reread this post. This IS rolefishing! I'm disappointed that nobody else vigorously pursued this. He tries to obscure it with the "Let's talk about irrelevant things" part, but consider the possible scenarios which might have led him to post this. He was town and had an ability, which (1) somehow led to him thinking everyone else might have abilities. Furthermore, he thought that it would be (2) useful for town to consider this information despite the risk it would basically out himself to mafia as someone with an ability. Both (1) and (2) are really poor leaps of logic, and I don't expect a player like bumatlarge act so unwisely, especially when the guaranteed risk is outing that he has an ability, with the additional risk of encouraging other town players to out that they have an ability. Another possibility, he was town and had no ability. Him posting what he did under these circumstances makes even less sense, as he's now rolefishing as a vanilla townie. The final possibility is that he's mafia and rolefishing. I believe this is what is actually going on. Bumatlarge puts forwards the argument that the post was just "speculation" and not "role fishing". This is not a believable argument because it is something that is very detrimental to post as town. I myself didn't pursue this at the time, because by the time I had arrived to post in the game, the "hey rolefishing" discussion had morphed into something else and I didn't think I could bring it back to the forefront of town discussion. I had to let it go for the time being, and placed that breadcrumb instead. However, there is also additional supporting evidence against bumatlarge. Consider the JeeJee/GGQ/bumatlarge argument. bumatlarge jumps in with this gem of a post: On September 08 2011 06:27 bumatlarge wrote: Here you transformed "idle speculation" into "rolefishing". Bum: I think everyone has a role GGQ: 4 mafia; I agree JeeJee: rolefishing ? But then GGQ, instead of pointing this out, points a finger at me for something he initially agreed with. Congratulations! You found an "Inconsistency"! ##vote:ggq bumatlarge is piggybacking on an attack by JeeJee on GGQ, but the logic he uses is terrible and really forced. JeeJee is provoking GGQ, who is reacting, and bum jumps in accusing GGQ of not responding in a specific way, and joins JeeJee in voting him. (Sidenote: GGQ's reply to bum's initial rolefishing actually implies he has an ability, since the only way you can turthfully agree the statement that everyone has an ability is to at least have an ability of your own, and in this way GGQ becomes that much more attractive for mafia to pursue.) His later followup posts argues that, "GGQ could have pointed out that what he was doing was not rolefishing. Instead he gave an excuse about how he shouldn't be the focus. He had no intention of standing behind what he said," but GGQ's question about why JeeJee was focusing on GGQ, who was agreeing with bumatlarge's earlier statement, instead of bumatlarge, who was the first to post along those lines was a reasonable question to ask JeeJee. I am highly confident that bumatlarge is mafia. The rolefishing post he makes would be a tremendously detrimental post to make if he really is town. The poor logic he employs when he piggybacks on JeeJee's attack on GGQ is another piece of evidence. I also believe that the stacked mafia roleblock and shot on me after I breadcrumbed a shot on bumatlarge is an attempt to save him (and to remove a vigilante), but for this part you have to choose whether or not to believe that I was indeed both shot at and roleblocked. ##Vote bumatlarge As to the question about how the mafia would have spotted my breadcrumb, I don't want this to be the focus right now, but consider which players might quote the post in which I placed my breadcrumb: On September 10 2011 12:15 Zona wrote: Ack. I want to HEAR more from sandroba, mig, and sinani. | ||
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On September 11 2011 18:27 Palmar wrote: I don't agree with any case on Bumatlarge, I think I've gotten a grasp on how he plays town and how he plays scum, this is almost purely based on his day 1 posting, I'm pretty sure scumatlarge doesn't play like he did on day one, so let's rule him out. Palmar, are there any other reasons that you think bumatlarge is town that you haven't stated? Because if your belief that bumatlarge is town is simply due to your feelings, I ask that you reread my case and consider the evidence I have presented against him from his own posts. | ||
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On September 12 2011 01:39 Curu wrote: What bugs me a bit is why would Zona be a shot + RB and why would a Medic choose to protect her, all in the same night. Of the current player list I think only a few have played games with Zona and also why would she shoot bum when her vote list was GGQ, me, Mig, sandroba? I decided to shoot bumatlarge because during Night 1 when I reread the game, I noticed the parts that comprise the case I presented publicly and decided he was scummier than the others. You'll notice that everything in that case occurs before day 2. And better yet, bumatlarge has said nothing since then except to appear and write a pithy single post in his own defense against my case. | ||
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I believe a sandroba lynch is not as good, because sandroba has been inactive, with a single scummy action in the vote for theawesomeall out of nowhere. bumatlarge has far more scummy actions, and hasn't added much to the discussion since then. sandroba has promised to be more active in the near future - and we can hold him to that, because if he really goes inactive again, do you think Ace will offer him leniency again? When sandroba becomes more active, we'll have a lot more to go on to get a read on him, instead of just a few posts. And if sandroba doesn't become more active, we'll insist that Ace modkill him. I also believe a sinani lynch is not as good, because sinani's behavior is entirely indefensible. This means both town and scum can jump on the lynch offering much less insight. I say that a vig shot would be best here. | ||
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Mig/Palmar/bumatlarge/TheAwesomeAll in Arkham Asylum (which sandroba cohosted) sandroba/GGQ/Mig/Curu/Palmar/chaos13/TheAwesomeAll/JeeJee in World at War 2 (what fun that was) Those are the only two games I've played here in recent memory. | ||
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##Vote sinani And Mig, what a terrible mistake for you to make no matter what alignment you are. I'm sure we'll be looking hard at you tomorrow. | ||
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Also, could you elaborate more on the reasons behind your other three suspects, them being Mig, chaos13, and GGQ? | ||
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I suggest that you consider protecting Curu tonight, since he is the ONLY confirmed townie that we have, thanks to his rather clever breadcrumb. If you were thinking about protecting me again tonight (and I hope you were), I would ask that you flip a coin, and based on that, protect Curu or myself. | ||
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On September 13 2011 03:48 Zona wrote: To the doctor or medic who protected me last night: I suggest that you consider protecting Curu tonight, since he is the ONLY confirmed townie that we have, thanks to his rather clever breadcrumb. If you were thinking about protecting me again tonight (and I hope you were), I would ask that you flip a coin, and based on that, protect Curu or myself. Alright, I've given this some thought and I've realized that I've made assumptions about the game I shouldn't have, based on Ace's completely barebones OP and cycle posts. Curu's claim should not be taken to mean that he is confirmed town, but Curu should continue to be evaluated like any player should, by his posts and his votes. | ||
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On September 13 2011 08:05 Palmar wrote: I already pmd Ace about that Jackal he answered: A medic protecting a target will be notified that they stopped a hit. The target will also be notified that they survived a hit. I think it's okay I paste that, seeing as it's just rules stuff. I also just pm'd Ace about this. I'm not willing to take your word for it. I also suggest that anyone who has any doubts independently ask Ace themselves. | ||
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Part 1 - bumatlarge is scum I've made this case already and I still believe it is as strong as it was before, here. In addition to that, I want to point out that if both bumatlarge and I were town, it would have been a golden opportunity for mafia to join in and encourage the bumatlarge lynch. This secures them a mislynch as well as leaving almost all of the blame on me, which is a great situation for them to be in. However, only wherebugsgo and ggq ever join me in actually voting for bumatlarge, and the discussion of the lynch is quickly morphs over to other players and I have to give up on the lynch. Furthermore, the entire sequence of events does not make sense if we are both mafia. Why would I bring suspicion on both bumatlarge and myself...for no reason at all? This strengthens the idea that only one of bumatlarge and I is scum. Others have already made the argument as to why I am likely town, and why it did not make sense for me to claim and make the case I did if I were mafia, so I'll leave it at that. | ||
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Here, I want to first talk about the setup of the game, in terms of balance. 12 town/4 mafia is a distribution you almost never see, and there are good reasons for that. First, let's assume there are no vigilantes (or that they hold their shot), and ignore veteran and doctor protection. (Ignoring doctor protection is reasonable when considering game balance, as it's not that fair to balance a game expecting a doctor to succeed more than once. For veteran protection, it is more likely that it comes into play, but it's still probably that a veteran gets endgamed or lynched, where the protection also evaporates. We've also seen from several flips that it is likely the town is not overloaded with power roles.) If mafia has a constant 2 kp, town is allowed a single mislynch to lynch four successfully, this is way too strong for mafia. If mafia has n/2 kp (whether we round up or down), town is allowed two mislynches to lynch four, also very difficult, and unreasonable, in my view. If mafia has 1 kp though, town has three mislynches to lynch four, which is more reasonable. Now consider the game itself. On night 1, JeeJee died. (I also know that I was shot, and my own shot was blocked.) Due to his posts, I have come to believe that JeeJee was not a legitamite mafia target, and was shot by another night vigilante. Furthermore, due to something subtle Ace said when I was asking him clarifying questions about my role, I believe this other night vigilante has the same convoluted restrictions and penalties that I am subject to (and was penalized as a result of his or her shot). All this reinforces the belief I have that mafia started with 1 kp. Now consider this post by Ace (link to original to confirm): On September 07 2011 04:08 Ace wrote: I mostly agree, except some roles just are easier to be looked at as Town than others. As a host as long as you make it difficult for the roles to confirm themselves/stay alive then you've done your job. Except Masons because there is nothing you can do about them. ETA: Also giving Scum "Town Roles" helps counteract confirmed Town scenario like GMarshal said. Seeing 2,3 medic claims in a game with low KP should make somebody stop and think there is a Scum Doctor in the setup. Town dayvig is one of the easiest roles to self-confirm. But Ace suggests giving scum roles that traditionally belong to town. So I believe that the dayvig in our game is actually mafia-aligned. I am a town night vig, and that I believe the game started with another town night vig besides myself, so these two roles obviously swing the balance of power in favor of town. I believe that the dayvig is mafia to compensate. (Well, in addition to the penalties we suffer if we mis-shoot.) But enough talk about why the dayvig might be mafia based on balancing reasons and Ace's comments. Let's consider Bayonnet's play in this game, especially day 1. Bayonnet has been using a heavy amount of flavor in his posts, which is fun, but which I contend is being used to help obscure weak reasoning. He starts off the game with a vote on iGrok saying that iGrok displays "fear" and "discomfort" in his posts, and compares them to posts made in other games, not necessarily at the same stages of the games. This arguement actually isn't very strong, as the judgement of emotion is quite subjective, but Bayonnet continues to tunnel without providing any additional useful reasoning. Next day, he writes a bunch of nice flavor to accompany his day shot on iGrok with one new reason (iGrok's lynch was averted by a fast bandwagon). People have been saying it was a terrible shot, but he was probably town. My interpretation of the sequence of events is different. The entire tunnel and lead up to the shot was an intentional plan to justify a shot on iGrok. Remember that iGrok flipped town. A dayvig shooting someone who flips town isn't damning by itself, but when combined with all the other evidence that I have provided, is a strong indication that Bayonnet is scum. Don't forget that he wrote, "Since I am the man pulling the trigger I take full responsibility for his flip." Finally, we have this gem. On September 13 2011 04:33 BayonnetAnderson wrote: Last time a player crumbed flavor text in an Ace game he was instantly modkilled (deconduo in Closed Casket mafia), as Ace considers crumbing flavor to be a violation of the "don't post PM's from the host" rule. If curu is telling the truth, then he will be modkilled, which *royally* sucks, if he *isn't* modkilled then I think I'll have to conclude he is lying. I'm ok with a medic protecting either you or me, as I think we are the most "obvious" town left. Also, I'm probably going to be afk for the next 24 hours, as I have things to do and places to be All I can say is lol. Like Curu said, this post comes from a mafia mindset. | ||
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There have been accusations thrown around that palmar is not playing to his full ability, and I agree with them. He actually has very few posts when compared to his normal play, and on top of that, a good number of those posts are virtually empty. He does not provide any solid evidence to back up any of his "reads", and does not respond to questions or elaborate on any of his statements. However, the post Palmar makes after I make my case on bumatlarge is rather incriminating. Here's the incriminating part. On September 11 2011 18:27 Palmar wrote: I don't agree with any case on Bumatlarge, I think I've gotten a grasp on how he plays town and how he plays scum, this is almost purely based on his day 1 posting, I'm pretty sure scumatlarge doesn't play like he did on day one, so let's rule him out. Curu is almost definitely town, thing about people going emotional is that it makes it very easy to pick out actual frustrated town, and scum trying to blend in with that atmosphere, something I'll come back to later. The only problem with Curu as town is that his reads are below his standards, but his posting is way too natural and unrestricted for him to possibly be scum. the smurf is town too. The shot was just terrible, but the intents behind it seem genuine enough. He also seems to be putting in the effort to actually scumhunt. The shot was really fucking dumb, but I'd still defend this guy at the moment. And Sinani206 is using the I-don't-give-a-shit attitude he sometimes dons when he plays terribly. It's terrible, but it's TOWN. I can't believe this guy is even up for lynching today, he got deflected on after WBG scumslipped like a boss faster than lightning, what the hell guys? Zona is probably town, claims a shot. No idea why she would play a veteran like that, hasn't stuck her neck out at all this game. It's just a weird style overall, her attack on Bum is just... derp. It's a bad lynch and it's never going to fly. First, he starts off by listing a bunch of people he thinks is town, concluding that bumatlarge, curu, bayonnet, sinani, and zona are town. However, if you examine the actual explanations that are attached, none of them hold any water. All of them are by "feeling" or by his "grasp on how (player x) plays", and none are actually based on posts and votes. And notice that bumatlarge and bayonnet are on this list of "probably town", blended in with a few other players who do actually look town. In particular, the argument in favor of bumatlarge is pure garbage, based on a "grasp on how he plays town". The argument in favor of bayonnet isn't much better, where he acknowledges that the shot bayonnet took was bad, but "I'd still defend this guy at the moment". He states that "[bayonnet] seems to be putting in the effort to actually scumhunt" when at that point in time when Palmar made his post, only two of bayonnet's posts involved anyone other than iGrok, are were just rehashes of things others have posted before. Finally, Palmar doesn't address at all why my case on bum is weak, despite stating that he thinks i'm town. He just dismisses it with "derp". Finally, we get this piece of beauty: On September 12 2011 17:56 Palmar wrote: Bum is not scum you scrub, what the shit? Seriously, stop the ridiculousness. This game is as close as solved right now, just shoot into this list and lynch into it too: Mig, WBG, chaos13, GGQ. I think Sandroba's shit is ok, only thing that really bothers me is his xtf vote which is imo based on nothing, but I don't know. xtf has been lurking hardcore this game. In case I'm yet fucking again wrong about chaos13, maybe xtf should be shot. Zona is almost definitely town, Bumatlarge IS TOWN YOU MORONS. Jackal has a tiny chance of being scum, just because he cannot be read, but I'm leaning town now. The smurf is some baddie town and I think Curu is definitely town. Stop being idiots, shoot those people. Once again, note how he makes reads without any evidence. I even later ask him to elaborate on some of his reads, but he again entirely ignores any questions or requests to explain. But the sentence I've emphasized is the kicker. Palmar states that the game is pretty much solved. In order for the game to be solved for town, all scum must be confirmed, or alternatively, enough town must be confirmed such that mislynching (or mis-vigging) the remaining uncofirmed, together with the accompanying mafia night kills, still allows the town to win. We aren't even close to either situation. We had ZERO confirmed town when Palmar posted his sentence (it came before Curu's claim, whether or not you believe it), and we have ZERO confirmed mafia. In fact, if you just consider just the numerical situation, we're in pretty bad shape. And if Palmar truly believes mafia has 2kp like he posted here, it makes the situation look even worse. Instead, I interpret this sentence as an attempt to bolster the strength of the reads he is suggesting without providing any evidence in the form of actual posts players have made, as well as an attempt to make the town relax and feel that the town is in good shape, when we have lost a number of townies and killed ZERO mafia. The same post also includes this quote, "Zona is probably town, claims a shot. No idea why she would play a veteran like that, hasn't stuck her neck out at all this game." where he apparently buys into the idea that I am a veteran, when in Ace's games, being roleblocked also nullifies veteran protection. This is in stark contrast to the recent exchange (Palmar's post here) where we can clearly see that Palmar has been clarifying with Ace about details on even how subtle game mechanics work. | ||
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Just to be thorough: Ace, does a roleblock nullify a veteran's protection? | ||
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My mind is open to anyone's arguments, except Palmar's, as I still don't believe him in any way. However, if we assume Palmar's claim is true, it's likely he's insane, but consider that my case on bumatlarge is weaker now that we know the roleblock on me was because of jailing, not a mafia roleblock. Sandroba's appeared now, at LYLO, after a series of excuses that got worse and worse. The "playing LoL" excuse is entirely inadmissable after PROMISING to show up and play. Chances are, a number of mafia are among the non-contributors, and town non-contributors are really helping them hide. There are three guns around at night. Mine, and two others. Night 1 my gun didn't fire, someone's gun fired at me, and someone fired at JeeJee. Night 2 I shot bayonnet, which failed. And wherebugsgo and Curu were also shot. It is my belief that one other gun started in the hands of a role like mine, and the other is the mafia's only night kp. However, I note that I've misread several things in this game. | ||
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I also want the possibility that both Palmar and Jackal are lying to be considered. Wherebugsgo has a case on them which at the time I thought had some merit but wasn't entirely bulletproof. | ||
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On September 14 2011 03:05 sandroba wrote: The whole idea that I'm scum because I'm lurking is just ridiculous because that's not how I would play scum. I would just try to push w/e mislynch vigorously and try to look like my previous games as townie. The whole point of being scum is trying to avoid suspicion and that is clearly not what I'm doing. I really had real life issues the previous day and I was pretty sure I wasn't getting shot, since there was so much suspicion on me already, so I decided to play LoL ytd and have an easier job today since the night would certainly provide more info. Heck, I even tried to bait mafia into shooting me by saying I would dedicate a lot today to clear things up for town, but that unsurprisingly did not work. I don't dispute that you were playing LoL. You're even saying you played LoL intentionally to have an excuse to not contribute. "The whole idea that I'm scum because I'm lurking is just ridiculous because that's not how I would play scum." This argument holds no water. Supposing you're scum, you could have wanted to see if this new approach could work for you. | ||
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I'm leaning towards thinking wherebugsgo was shot by town. | ||
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On September 14 2011 03:25 bumatlarge wrote: Why couldn't they have shot both? wut? It's definitely possible that mafia shot both. But did you get a "power role" read from wherebugsgo? There were a bunch of people who were pretty suspicious of wherebugsgo, I would have expected someone else to be shot by mafia. I'm hoping another night vig claims. I want to test this person about their role, because while it's (somewhat) possible that a few details are different, I'm sure of a certain something about our roles that is the exactly the same. When you (the other night vig) claims, don't talk about any details about your role. I will tell you something about our roles to convince you that I have that role, and then I will test you about some details about the role to convince me that you have the role. | ||
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Obviously, we lynch between bumatlarge and Palmar, as their claims directly contradict each other, one must be lying. bumatlarge claims to be a paranoid gun owner, a role which shoots anyone who visits him. Palmar claims that in his capacity as a cop, he checked bumatlarge. Second, among the 10 players who are alive and can post, FOUR are mafia...that means there could be up to 4 players lying together in a coordinated manner. Consider this before you listen to what everyone else says. | ||
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...Since you didn't mention anything when you made your claims. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
##Vote Palmar | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
Assume Bayonnet is telling the truth - mafia is preventing Palmar from being lynched. Assume Bayonnet is lying - then Bayonnet is lying to avoid voting Palmar. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
Bayonnet's statement, no matter whether you interpret him as lying or telling the truth, shows Palmar is scum. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
Take the total number of names you need to submit to Ace to shoot your gun. If this number is 5 or greater, subtract 4 from it. Then, using the number you have, shoot the matching player below: 1 - Jackal 2 - chaos 3 - Bayonnet 4 - Palmar | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
I think it's highly likely that sandroba/GGQ/xtfftc are all town. I've thought through quite a few scenarios where one of them is scum, but it boils down to this: if any of them were scum, the mafia have made things a lot more complicated for themselves than they had to, and the potential benefit of any possible such gambit wasn't close to justifying the risks they took. In case I die, I want town to remember that Palmar is clearly scum. In addition to my case on Palmar, the mafia hidden voter helped lynch bumatlarge, saving Palmar, when FOR SURE one of bumatlarge and Palmar were scum. (Remember iGrok's TOWN double voter power had his name APPEAR TWICE in the vote list, when in our case "Anonymous" appeared in the vote list.) Bayonnet is clearly scum. In addition to my case on Bayonnet, there's the barefaced lie about having his vote bought by a politician, something that's entirely unreasonable in a 12/4 game where mafia has a hidden voter. (Mafia starting the game with HALF the votepower of the town?) Jackal is clearly scum. In addition to wherebugsgo's case on Jackal, there is no way to make his claim work now that we know Palmar is scum and bumatlarge is town. Plus notice it took him FIVE hours after Palmar claimed to finally come to the conclusion that he did (despite that he obviously already had his own results to look over when Palmar claimed), and SEVEN hours after Palmar claimed to claim himself. And it's not as if Jackal was away from the game and delayed in revealing his claim. Before his change in opinion FIVE hours after Palmar claimed, Jackal kept taking about the possible scenarios in ways that contradicted with his later claim...as if he didn't have his claimed results in his mind at all then. I suggest that town obviously rereads chaos and Mig, but also Palmar, Bayonnet, and Jackal, especially their posts EARLIER in the game, how they talk about chaos and Mig, to look for clues as to which of the two is the last scum. If you have extra time, also reread xtfftc/sandroba/GGQ, but I don't think you should focus on it. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
40426 Posts
Jackal, there's only a SINGLE thing I wish you had done differently in this game. On September 15 2011 11:59 Zona wrote: Hi, if you're town and voting bumatlarge, you need to switch to palmar immediately. Assume Bayonnet is telling the truth - mafia is preventing Palmar from being lynched. Assume Bayonnet is lying - then Bayonnet is lying to avoid voting Palmar. Right here. I gave you what I thought was 100% unbreakable, completely logical evidence that Palmar was scum, regardless of whether or not you thought I was scum, Bayonnet was scum, or anything else that happened in the game...(like your alignment checks), and you didn't switch. Since you didn't switch and spouted a line about "go[ing] with the info I have", I was convinced you were another mafia, like Bayonnet, trying to avoid lynching Palmar with some shitty reasoning. Sigh. And depending on how quickly Mig sent in his second vote, you switching over could have changed everything. Plus I would then have entertained the idea that both Mig/chaos were scum instead of thinking chaos was the 4th earlier, then switching to thinking Mig later on. On September 19 2011 13:59 Mig wrote: Kav that is exactly what we thought about bum. After bum's first statement we considered that he could be a blue but eventually settled on him likely being a vet or VT trying to draw a shot. No medic/dt was ever going to make that statement at the start of the game. So we only briefly ever considered shooting him. I agree. You're more likely to mislead town than mafia since mafia already knows you're town. Palmar was actually 2nd scummiest in my eyes when I was rereading to look for my (forced) shot n1, and if bumatlarge hadn't made that post, I would have sent in a shot for Palmar. But also imagine if wherebugsgo didn't roleblock me n1. That would have been hilariously bad for town: Shooting bum and getting shot back, plus another shot on me from mafia to muddy the waters as to how much KP there actually was...lol. I wish I hadn't convinced myself that there couldn't be a SK by working through possible 11/4/1 setups and deciding that there wasn't any I would consider balanced. When nobody claimed vig after I kept asking, I had to start doubting that there was another town vig...I should have doubted more. I have a question for the mafia though: Why didn't you guys jump on the d2 bumatlarge mislynch that I offered to you on a silver platter? | ||
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