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On September 14 2011 03:05 sandroba wrote:
The whole idea that I'm scum because I'm lurking is just ridiculous because that's not how I would play scum. I would just try to push w/e mislynch vigorously and try to look like my previous games as townie. The whole point of being scum is trying to avoid suspicion and that is clearly not what I'm doing. I really had real life issues the previous day and I was pretty sure I wasn't getting shot, since there was so much suspicion on me already, so I decided to play LoL ytd and have an easier job today since the night would certainly provide more info. Heck, I even tried to bait mafia into shooting me by saying I would dedicate a lot today to clear things up for town, but that unsurprisingly did not work.
I don't dispute that you were playing LoL. You're even saying you played LoL intentionally to have an excuse to not contribute.
"The whole idea that I'm scum because I'm lurking is just ridiculous because that's not how I would play scum." This argument holds no water. Supposing you're scum, you could have wanted to see if this new approach could work for you.
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Curu was shot by scum.
I'm leaning towards thinking wherebugsgo was shot by town.
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I have to go right now, but bumatlarge's claim makes perfect sense if he's town. I'm going to consider the scenario where he's mafia more thoroughly when I'm back, but right now it doesn't seem that likely.
On September 14 2011 03:25 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 03:24 Zona wrote:
Curu was shot by scum.
I'm leaning towards thinking wherebugsgo was shot by town. Why couldn't they have shot both? wut?
It's definitely possible that mafia shot both.
But did you get a "power role" read from wherebugsgo? There were a bunch of people who were pretty suspicious of wherebugsgo, I would have expected someone else to be shot by mafia.
I'm hoping another night vig claims. I want to test this person about their role, because while it's (somewhat) possible that a few details are different, I'm sure of a certain something about our roles that is the exactly the same.
When you (the other night vig) claims, don't talk about any details about your role. I will tell you something about our roles to convince you that I have that role, and then I will test you about some details about the role to convince me that you have the role.
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Alright, if you're really a real town player, I want you to consider these things:
Obviously, we lynch between bumatlarge and Palmar, as their claims directly contradict each other, one must be lying. bumatlarge claims to be a paranoid gun owner, a role which shoots anyone who visits him. Palmar claims that in his capacity as a cop, he checked bumatlarge.
Second, among the 10 players who are alive and can post, FOUR are mafia...that means there could be up to 4 players lying together in a coordinated manner. Consider this before you listen to what everyone else says.
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Also, to our cops, I'm guessing neither of you breadcrumbed your investigations?
...Since you didn't mention anything when you made your claims.
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I believe bumatlarge over Palmar at the moment.
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I've thought about this for way too long and don't want to anymore...after starting to think in crazy circles.
##Vote Palmar
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My case against bum is weaker now that it's likely I was roleblocked by wherebugsgo, not mafia. Palmar, however, still oozes scumminess, especially with the "game is solved" comment. I think your balance argument is reasonable, but I've already learned of certain mistakes I made when I tried to figure out the game setup by considering game balance, so I'm not relying on those. Dead town players whose judgement I respect, like Curu, also called out Palmar as scum, which contributes to my decision.
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Hi, if you're town and voting bumatlarge, you need to switch to palmar immediately.
Assume Bayonnet is telling the truth - mafia is preventing Palmar from being lynched.
Assume Bayonnet is lying - then Bayonnet is lying to avoid voting Palmar.
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sandroba, I think it's a mistake
Bayonnet's statement, no matter whether you interpret him as lying or telling the truth, shows Palmar is scum.
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Um, I'm a night vig, for one. And there's still a bunch of people who haven't claimed.
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Lol Ace just posted the results of the lynch.
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To the other town player with a gun, we need to coordinate our shots, and I want you to read this very closely
Take the total number of names you need to submit to Ace to shoot your gun. If this number is 5 or greater, subtract 4 from it.
Then, using the number you have, shoot the matching player below:
1 - Jackal
2 - chaos
3 - Bayonnet
4 - Palmar
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I took another shot at Bayonnet.
I think it's highly likely that sandroba/GGQ/xtfftc are all town. I've thought through quite a few scenarios where one of them is scum, but it boils down to this: if any of them were scum, the mafia have made things a lot more complicated for themselves than they had to, and the potential benefit of any possible such gambit wasn't close to justifying the risks they took.
In case I die, I want town to remember that Palmar is clearly scum. In addition to my case on Palmar, the mafia hidden voter helped lynch bumatlarge, saving Palmar, when FOR SURE one of bumatlarge and Palmar were scum. (Remember iGrok's TOWN double voter power had his name APPEAR TWICE in the vote list, when in our case "Anonymous" appeared in the vote list.)
Bayonnet is clearly scum. In addition to my case on Bayonnet, there's the barefaced lie about having his vote bought by a politician, something that's entirely unreasonable in a 12/4 game where mafia has a hidden voter. (Mafia starting the game with HALF the votepower of the town?)
Jackal is clearly scum. In addition to wherebugsgo's case on Jackal, there is no way to make his claim work now that we know Palmar is scum and bumatlarge is town. Plus notice it took him FIVE hours after Palmar claimed to finally come to the conclusion that he did (despite that he obviously already had his own results to look over when Palmar claimed), and SEVEN hours after Palmar claimed to claim himself. And it's not as if Jackal was away from the game and delayed in revealing his claim. Before his change in opinion FIVE hours after Palmar claimed, Jackal kept taking about the possible scenarios in ways that contradicted with his later claim...as if he didn't have his claimed results in his mind at all then.
I suggest that town obviously rereads chaos and Mig, but also Palmar, Bayonnet, and Jackal, especially their posts EARLIER in the game, how they talk about chaos and Mig, to look for clues as to which of the two is the last scum.
If you have extra time, also reread xtfftc/sandroba/GGQ, but I don't think you should focus on it.
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I think the last mafia is Mig...not 100% sure.
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Whichever town is still alive tomorrow, evaluate the situation on your own.
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Yeah, I'm not sure at all.
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Alright I did my best. I believe in you guys. I believe town can bring home the victory.
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Sheesh, it's frustrating to play so seriously and invest so much effort without support from your team. I probably won't play as seriously as I did in this one in any games on TL for some time.
Jackal, there's only a SINGLE thing I wish you had done differently in this game.
On September 15 2011 11:59 Zona wrote:
Hi, if you're town and voting bumatlarge, you need to switch to palmar immediately.
Assume Bayonnet is telling the truth - mafia is preventing Palmar from being lynched.
Assume Bayonnet is lying - then Bayonnet is lying to avoid voting Palmar.
Right here. I gave you what I thought was 100% unbreakable, completely logical evidence that Palmar was scum, regardless of whether or not you thought I was scum, Bayonnet was scum, or anything else that happened in the game...(like your alignment checks), and you didn't switch. Since you didn't switch and spouted a line about "go[ing] with the info I have", I was convinced you were another mafia, like Bayonnet, trying to avoid lynching Palmar with some shitty reasoning. Sigh. And depending on how quickly Mig sent in his second vote, you switching over could have changed everything. Plus I would then have entertained the idea that both Mig/chaos were scum instead of thinking chaos was the 4th earlier, then switching to thinking Mig later on.
On September 19 2011 13:59 Mig wrote:
Kav that is exactly what we thought about bum. After bum's first statement we considered that he could be a blue but eventually settled on him likely being a vet or VT trying to draw a shot. No medic/dt was ever going to make that statement at the start of the game. So we only briefly ever considered shooting him.
I agree. You're more likely to mislead town than mafia since mafia already knows you're town.
Palmar was actually 2nd scummiest in my eyes when I was rereading to look for my (forced) shot n1, and if bumatlarge hadn't made that post, I would have sent in a shot for Palmar.
But also imagine if wherebugsgo didn't roleblock me n1. That would have been hilariously bad for town: Shooting bum and getting shot back, plus another shot on me from mafia to muddy the waters as to how much KP there actually was...lol.
I wish I hadn't convinced myself that there couldn't be a SK by working through possible 11/4/1 setups and deciding that there wasn't any I would consider balanced. When nobody claimed vig after I kept asking, I had to start doubting that there was another town vig...I should have doubted more.
I have a question for the mafia though: Why didn't you guys jump on the d2 bumatlarge mislynch that I offered to you on a silver platter?
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EPT
