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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 03 2011 09:02 chaos13 wrote: So in other words you think mafia are all on the big(gest) wagons right now? That's not at all what he's saying. When all the votes are this close, if mafia has a roleblocker, they can null a vote and decide who gets lynched. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 03 2011 09:10 chaos13 wrote: wat. Mafia can block votes?? brb, re-reading OP It's quite possible. But why would you want to risk it? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 03 2011 09:23 OriginalName wrote: We dont know that for sure. Settle down there is probably more going on right now than is clear to us. Im pretty sure mafia kp was 3. I figured there might be 5 or 6 mafia in the game. So, assuming I was right, that means we either hit 1 or 0 scum with lynches. I'm hoping we hit 1. The double lynch plus no nights into 3 mafia kp makes deaths very fast. We can assume 2 will come back today with resurrect + reanimate. Idk, it's all kind of overwhelming... | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 03 2011 10:00 sandroba wrote: WTF? 5-6? This is no flip, man. Mafia has 3 members most likely and 2kp, probably with a 1 shot minion. I suppose...I guess I'm just used to bigger games, and this is the first no flip game I've played. Alright, so let's assume I was overestimating (a much safer assumption). Are we sure bum wasn't sniped by a vig? If he was, maybe his death would register before the lynch? I'm going to have to take a bit to weigh possibilities once I get home. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 03 2011 23:58 chaos13 wrote: Oh look, somebody is defending WBG by means of deflecting attention away from his lynch. Not only that, they're doing it by asking someone to ignore an analysis on a player. You know scum, just because it's a no flip game doesn't mean you don't have to put effort in. sinani206 Wherebugsgo sandroba Ok, assuming there are 3 scum, this would mean the mafia kp is 2. 3 died last night. So that means someone died by a way other than mafia kp. This is either the minion shot or the vig shot. I'm going to assume the vig didn't shoot already, but it's possible. If sinani had been scum, this would reduce the mafia numbers to 2, and thus, their kp to 1. Chances are very very high that sinani was not scum. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 00:22 Ace wrote: impossible. If sinani is scum then their KP wouldn't be reduced the same night because that would be bad modding or a totally different mechanic we aren't aware of. Scum don't lose KP on a night one of their members die, it always goes into effect for the next night. I would want confirmation on this from iGrok. Cuuuuuuz that's stupid. If we killed a scum, that sucks for them, but we killed a scum. The rules say mafia kp is n/2. If we lynch a scum, that reduces scum numbers. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 00:51 jcarlsoniv wrote: I would want confirmation on this from iGrok. Cuuuuuuz that's stupid. If we killed a scum, that sucks for them, but we killed a scum. The rules say mafia kp is n/2. If we lynch a scum, that reduces scum numbers. [g]Balls, forgot green text. WTB iGrok.[/g] | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 00:51 jcarlsoniv wrote: [g]Balls, forgot green text. WTB iGrok.[/g] derp WTB iGrok | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 03:48 bumatlarge wrote: Just so we can be clear here redff, you checked both? I believe you, but I know the OP specifically says a corpse. Can you clarify the differences between coroner as it states in the OP and coroner's apprentice? I'm not confused that he would be able to check either varp or sinani. I am, however, somewhat skeptical that he would be able to check both at the same time. Maybe it works differently in no-flip, but it seems odd. If this is the case, why didn't red check all 5 that died, and then tell us what we lost town-wise. Coroner checks alignment AND role. I doubt that all 5 that died were green. We must have lost something important. And why wouldn't red want to know the roles and alignments of all 5 that died last night? Also, "Coroner's Apprentice" sounds...made up and convenient for him. FoS red On September 04 2011 05:36 wherebugsgo wrote: Oops I messed that up. Let me redo that: Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar Voting OriginalName redFF wherebugsgo bumatlarge Voting redFF Ace Voting wherebugsgo chaos13 kenpachi I forgot bum voted ON. Oh BTW point of my voting situation was to show that votes are really split right now and that helps mafia. We need people to vote bum/ON. 8 people have voted already and the two who haven't are jcarl, ON. jcarl needs to vote for bum and ON will probably throw his vote again. If Ace doesn't switch to ON/bum then I think he's certainly mafia. I haven't voted yet because I don't like to vote in the first half of the day on principal. I like to watch how things play out for the whole day, and make my decision in the second half. I do find bum pretty suspicious, although I am worried about WIFOM in sandroba's RB. It is entirely possible that the mafia would roleblock one of their own (sandroba) in order to make it seem like bum is scum. I will hold my vote for now, but I will vote early on tomorrow so that there is plenty of time for everyone to see the vote and discuss the situations. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 07:18 bumatlarge wrote: They wouldn't block sandroba if he was mafia, they would just not do anything. It's more likely that he would claim that if they didn't have a blocker at all. Very nice, though perhaps it might have been better to wait a little later in the day for someone to make an odd claim. I'm not really fearing lynched now, because I'm fairly certain chaos or ON are scum, so it's worth it. Shame redff will probably die tomorrow, alignment seems to be key this game, and I think we can assume redff is the last blue that can check it. Did you get alignment or roles at all as well? What? Why? You don't think it's possible at all that they would incriminate someone AND seemingly town-ify (that's not a word...) a person by role blocking sandroba? And am I really the only one who finds red's claim odd? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 09:31 Ace wrote: If you are sure no Townies shot last night, then the 3 dead players were all killed by Scum. Hence, you'd check them to confirm them being Town like you said. Lets keep the logic train going here. The only reason you'd check Sinani or Varp is to see if they were Scum lynched by the Town. Right? That means you'd speak out if you found them to be Scum. But you found Sinani to be Town. Why would you speak out on this when I already showed a way to not reveal yourself. You said it yourself - the real Coroner died. You just saw 3 people get capped. Why reveal yourself? It doesn't add up on both accounts. I dont believe you are this stupid. You would have to know you are going to be killed if this holds, ending the game for the Town. You'd die, and even if Sinani is Coroner he'd die immediately. Between the 2 of you, you would only get off 3 checks by Day 3. Game over. I can't take your claim seriously. The real Coroner would not Counter Claim in this situation because it's not LYLO so it would be dumb. A Real Cop doesn't CC Scum claiming Cop unless the Town is seriously buying it and will lynch a Townie. No one is getting lynched over your claim so the Coroner has no reason to Counter Claim. Or he's dead. Was about to post this. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found his claim bullshit. @red: Why would you check the lynches? We knew they were both town. Otherwise the mafia kp would have been reduced. The 3 night kills do not guarantee at all that the mafia only killed town. These players can be resurrected, and thus killing one of their own would make the town unsure of the dead players' alignments. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote: im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day. On September 04 2011 09:24 redFF wrote: lol... im a back up coroner, i have 2 checks, and i can use them both at any time. thats it. why did i check the lynches???? because i'm fairly sure no townies shot last night, so all i would be checking is town players, whereas the lynched players have a sense of uncertainty to them, while im fairly sure all night deaths were town. why did i reveal my checks??? because i only have 2 and used them both. Do you really need to know their roles ace? all that seems like is role fishing, revive sinani. i feel like i've answered your questions, don't you think the regular coroner would have counterclaimed me??? i go back to vt if the coroner returns to life. On September 04 2011 09:34 redFF wrote: 2 checks i can use both during a day. i was trying to reveal as little as possible but then i decided full disclosure was best option. On September 04 2011 10:29 redFF wrote: i have no more checks after i used my 2. I really feel that you shouldn't be contradicting yourself. You have two checks per day, but you only have two checks! Wooooo yeah makes sense... You also keep saying that varp and sinani got lynched because they played stupidly and got themselves lynched. You're being a total hypocrite. Ace is right, if your claim truly is correct, you will have lost the game for town by giving up "both" of the coroners. You've already gone full retard mode, doubt you can work your way out of it. ##vote redFF I see no reason to hold my vote until tomorrow. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 12:12 bumatlarge wrote: I think I've got this game figured out, I've read into the thread alot and it's a bit of a puzzle with some missing pieces, but the main elements are there. Sinani, redff and Sandroba are scum -redff or sandroba has a role that let's them know a coroner died or that there are none left alive -in exchange, there is no roleblocker in the game. -this alone let's mafia safely fakeclaim, and accuse someone heavily based on one of the members being blocked. I do not believe that they intended to do this right after seeing the day 1 results, but seeing sinani lynched instead of me, I think they realized that a pious man had voted on sinani and screwed them over. Sandroba claimed a roleblock to keep me as the lynch for this day, and redff claimed coroner's apprentice to try to persuade the HP to bring back sinani, rather then just zombifying him. HP, DO NOT BRING BACK SINANI. Bring back any other person from that day, preferably a mafia kill. I can back up all this based on these three players behavior. 3 kills went out last night, and as far as I can tell, we don't have non-day vigis. That kills were all low activity posters, and I am fairly certain they were all town. Jackal He put his vote on chaos13 and afk'd apparently, I'm not sure about chaos, but he has reasoning similar to my own, so I don't think this is a heavy link but we'll keep chaos' name in case it pops up. Sknowman Again, very lurkerish, but he put his vote on jcarl, for a single post, then kept it there, even at the end. Just like chaos, I'll keep his name in mind. Drazerk Voted sinani. Why kill these people? I'll tell you, they have little influence upon being resurrected. The deapool to pick from here is extremely limited if you go on just there play in this game. Mafia wants to limit the good choices and leave the priest picking at scraps while the living players are more active and therefore uncheckable. But oh look, to ease the HP's troubled mind, redff comes soaring in and claims he checked TWO people (I have absolutely zero fucking idea why), and you should bring back sinani of the two. I believed him, because the claim was outrageous, a coroner could counterclaim him, and I thought he was inferring that sinani was a blue role of some sort. But Bum, you are probably scum because sandroba said he was RB'd which means you're scum! Which transistions nicely into our next segment... Sandroba I didn't really have too many qualms about this dude, until just before the first day ended, he seemed to be hell bent on finding scum and I was content to take his criticisms on how I start my days with a cup of folgers, and how he would rather prance around when I had few reads aside from varpulis and kenpachi. Until this post. Wow. Late into the day he wants to have a switch from a scummy person onto me with an absurd reason. Needless to say that struck a wrong chord. I told him what the fuck and voted varpulis, my own effort in consolidating votes, because like hell was I going to get lynched instead of varpulis. Sandroba has never voted redff, despite him GUNNING for me when redff have had very similar actions. Sandroba is defending everything redff does, yet even when he sees errors, he ignores them. Sandroba has never considered redff to be scum this entire game. That and calling the sinani lynch bad, it makes it pretty clear that sandroba knows something in this game that the rest of us don't. He has persisted in calling any speculation I gave about the set-up anti-town, because he doesn't want us to talk about it. Please don't sheep behind this guy. Oh what? The now the roleblocker comes into play here! It's funny that Jcarl brings up the "more information" tidbit, and you immediately hint that you do indeed have more information. Right here you are GUARANTEEING that scum has a roleblocker, without assessing that perhaps whoever does get saved from a vote will have alot of suspicion thrown upon them? Funny how that doesn't get mentioned when you are trying to push the lynch, but after it's 100% evidence. Case in point. Sinani was the minion most likely. Perhaps they don't even have a necromancer either? Also, sandroba confirms we have a pious who voted sinani. I still find it hard to believe that everything redff has done is intentional. Claiming the apprentice is one thing but then saying he gets two checks seems EXTREMELY odd. I don't understand why he didn't just say sandroba was town, or even that varpulis was scum. His posts don't give me much so until someone else finds anything, I'll keep him secondary to sandroba in my list. Sinani was very self explanatory, and redff did not keep his vote on him when it mattered. redFF needs to be gotten rid of tonight. I highly doubt town will be able to not lynch me, because of what sandroba said, but I'm confident that we can win when two scum are dead. Once we get rid of sandroba, I can guarentee the game will be over. ##Unvote ##Vote redff The only downside to your story is that if sinani was scum, the mafia kp would have been reduced before the night kills went out, so only 2 should have died at night... | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 04 2011 12:53 redFF wrote: i'd prefer not to tell the whole thread sinani's role but i think it's fairly obvious considering everything that i have said up to this point. as to the whole roleblocker minion wifom thing i have no need to think about or try to reason with that because its all wifom/pointless trying to explain night kills/where kp comes from when the important thing in this game is scumhunting. "I don't wanna say anything about his role, but based upon what I've said, you should already know." You know what sucks about that red? The scum (your) team knows more than we do. So anything that we should already know, the scum (your) team knows too. So what have you done? Imagine this from a town point of view. You're making it quite obvious that you want us to think sinani was coroner. You want him revived. ...k? So he gets revived today, and then sniped tonight. So what has he done for us? Jack shit. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
I still find red's claim odd, but the more I think about it, the more ace's scenario just doesn't sit right with me. In a game of no-flip, it seems highly plausible that there would be a back up coroner. Otherwise, if the coroner gets sniped first day, we're nearly completely fucked. I'll acknowledge that I haven't been playing very well. I'm not new to mafia, just rusty, and new to no-flip. I'm not used to not learning anything definitive from a lynch. I'm going to switch my vote to ON. I don't like how he had a useless vote day 1 despite being there for the day switch. He has been lurking a lot, even when addressed directly. @WBG, when I said the only downside to bum's story was that sinani was pretty much guaranteed town, I meant that since his entire theory was based off that, the rest couldn't be true. ##unvote ##vote OriginalName | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 05 2011 02:49 chaos13 wrote: redFF - I'm just gonna write as I think and see what conclusion I come to. Sorry if this gets a little roundabout or spammy. There have already been inconsistencies pointed out in his admittedly strange claim. He has only two checks, then he has two per day, and my personal favorite "Coroner must have died because I checked people." If your claim were true I am more than sure that iGrok would have sent you a PM saying "The coroner has died, you have become the new coroner, etc." So I don't believe his claim. Does this make him mafia? Not necessarily. If you're town, I certainly hope you have a good reason for lying. I want to save everyone some time here and tell you not to bother trying to get him to clear up his claim. He will stick to what he's said 100% despite all the contradictions in it. I recall an insane game I played with him on another site where he was mafia, fake claimed emperor with a ton of inconsistencies, lies, and contradictions and stubbornly refused to admit defeat when I called him out on every single one of them. From this I know that he's not afraid to fake claim as mafia. The problem is that I can't see the rest of his play coming from a mafia perspective in a normal game. But this is not a normal game. In other words, mafia have no fear of pushing a horrible lynch, because they don't have to be accountable for it. Looking at it that way, red's pushing for Varp D1 makes perfect sense as mafia. Conclusion - I'm not gonna waste more time typing out my thoughts here. redFF is mafia and should be killed asap. And just when I thought the town was starting to have some cohesion... | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 05 2011 04:13 wherebugsgo wrote: fuckin dilemma we have here... Is there any way we can lynch both ON and bum? Hmm...I don't think so... Although, if none of them switch off, it very strongly shows they are scum. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 05 2011 04:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Voting situation: Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar wherebugsgo Voting OriginalName jcarlsoniv chaos13 redFF kenpachi Voting redFF OriginalName Ace bumatlarge I have an idea that could be useful. Jcarl, vote for bum. sandroba, vote for ON. If mafia intends to roleblock a voter to save bum/ON they'll roleblock someone on the bum list. This way if one of me/jon/palmar gets roleblocked we can claim it. Sandroba has already been roleblocked so we can potentially confirm him by putting him on the list with four people on it, AKA on ON. Does this make sense? This eliminates some of the WIFOM if someone else actually gets roleblocked. Still want this to happen? I understand the motives. It's to check if sandroba will get RBd again? Or if someone does get RBs it'll sho it wasn't a lie from sandroba? I'm ok with doing this, just need confirmation from san. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On September 05 2011 04:30 chaos13 wrote: What does everyone think of the possibility of Kenpachi being scum over ON or bumatlarge? I'm not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. To me, lurking in mafia is like cheating. So I hate people who lurk in general. Especially when their posts are largely useless. | ||
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