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TL Mafia L

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 05 2012 12:22 GMT
#102
/in if possible. But I'll be a newbie kitten.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 05 2012 23:58 GMT
#131
Oh I didn't see it was a pm game

in this case, it's propably not good to be a newbie in there:

/out
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 06 2012 11:47 GMT
#172
Please don't make it a PM game. Then I'm /in again

It's really hard for new players to actually keep track. Even if you are active...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 07 2012 01:36 GMT
#195
yay for no PMs!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 07 2012 09:47 GMT
#202
I'm sorry, but what does Masons mean?

also, wasn't Palmar already screwed when he was mayor? but I still jump on the German bandwagon
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 08 2012 21:21 GMT
#232
On January 09 2012 06:18 prplhz wrote:
i dont want to be a doomsayer or anything but this game will never start


how so?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 10 2012 00:57 GMT
#244
On January 10 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 09:39 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Ok, so heres my take on this so far. I say we lynch the lurkers. Flamewheel is already lurking, and he hasn't chosen to take an action. I'm ok with lynching him to start the day. ##Vote:Flamewheel


Scum found. Obviously he didn't read the OP not knowing FW is host.

##Vote: Liquid`Sheth


hmm, that's to quick. you seem to try to spread confusion. I call scum.

##Vote: VisceraEyes
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 10 2012 01:20 GMT
#250
On January 10 2012 10:11 Forumite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 09:57 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 10 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 10 2012 09:39 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Ok, so heres my take on this so far. I say we lynch the lurkers. Flamewheel is already lurking, and he hasn't chosen to take an action. I'm ok with lynching him to start the day. ##Vote:Flamewheel


Scum found. Obviously he didn't read the OP not knowing FW is host.

##Vote: Liquid`Sheth


hmm, that's to quick. you seem to try to spread confusion. I call scum.

##Vote: VisceraEyes

Trying to save your scumbuddy Liquid`Sheth, are you?

##Vote Jayjay54


OMGUS:

##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Forumite
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 10 2012 09:45 GMT
#274
I just want to tell you guys, this looks super fun and I'm excited to be part of this (sub)community
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 10 2012 15:34 GMT
#297
hmm 42/50 and ceasing interest. maybe start nao?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 11 2012 15:31 GMT
#324
On January 11 2012 22:04 Jitsu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 16:59 prplhz wrote:

TL Mafia Limbo


I like this.

Motion to confirm "L" stands for Limbo? :D


Everybody gets a chance!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 11 2012 18:28 GMT
#326
On January 12 2012 02:30 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2012 00:31 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 11 2012 22:04 Jitsu wrote:
On January 11 2012 16:59 prplhz wrote:

TL Mafia Limbo


I like this.

Motion to confirm "L" stands for Limbo? :D


Everybody gets a chance!

Leave it to a german to make obscure David Hasselhoff references


you know, that we're wired this way no chance of getting out
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 11 2012 18:44 GMT
#330
hmm. 4 people to go. might as well wait a couple of days for the horse's perfect rainbow setup
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-11 20:00:50
January 11 2012 20:00 GMT
#334
On January 12 2012 03:45 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2012 03:34 rtgICEMAN wrote:
/in


that makes it 45 because in our op an out and this in is missing right? riiiiight? I want to see this start so badly!

On another note: I don't get the german hasselhoff thing. Explainz pls

Edit: But I did get that most recent rainbowdash reference from jayjay!


Dude! you don't know the limbo song from david hasselhoff? how low can you go? (see what I did there?)

also, that, most unfortunately, wasn't a rainbow dash reference (I used to watch it though). That was a "flamewheel's perfect 50 people setup" reference

3 to go!

e: wrong number because of sick ninjas.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 11 2012 20:53 GMT
#337
On January 12 2012 05:50 flamewheel wrote:
So... wait for 50, eh?


yup!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 11 2012 22:26 GMT
#341
On January 12 2012 07:03 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2012 05:50 flamewheel wrote:
So... wait for 50, eh?


what?
we get like 1 in per 2 days atm. According to my math getting to 50 takes literally ages! Yes literally


2 more, should be possible. On the brightside, Flamewheel designed the setup for 50 players and doesn't have to tinker around and thereby create a mess like the last large game
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 12 2012 09:34 GMT
#364
One to go. !C'mon TL
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 12 2012 16:51 GMT
#396
are the players verified once more or is just goooo?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 12 2012 17:01 GMT
#399
back to 49! yay.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 12 2012 17:06 GMT
#402
two people left
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 18:52:08
January 12 2012 18:51 GMT
#409
On January 13 2012 03:33 prplhz wrote:
GMarshal you should cohost the Kaller game. You are clearly a crazy man.


and you should get your shit together and /in again. TL mafia counts on you.

encore edit: if you are reading this whole thread anyway, because you are made this way, at least have the guts to play :D
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 12 2012 19:22 GMT
#411
yay! complete again. zeks you're in!

precious horse, get this party started!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 12 2012 20:01 GMT
#414
<3 GMarshal. Identified my love of bombs

Welcome to mafia L, you are the Town Bomb Nut. You love explosives of all kinds, bombs, mines, remote detonators, c4, the whole lot! You want to be the only bomb maker in town and resent those who would take them away from you. You win with the town, as long as the Town Enforcer is dead, as well as the arms dealer, and as long as no bomb diffusion kits are left in the game. You have the following items/powers

1.) Suicide bomber vests, Guts and Glory quality items, you've manufactured three of these and may use them or give them out as you please, they kill the user and the target, barring protection, and may be used at any time by just typing ##Suicide Bomb: Player Name you may only give them out at night and one at the time at that, wouldn't want any spoilsports catching on

2.) Miniature Mines- every night you may sneak into someones house and plant a miniature claymore, at any point you may detonate them all by typing ##Detonate Bombs these bombs have the same killing power as bullets, meaning that anything that would stop a bullet stops a miniature mine

3.) Rigged to blow- your house is a doomsday trap with a deadsman switch, if you are killed at any point anyone visiting you that night dies, irregardless of protection or anything else, all that is left behind is a steaming crater, your remains and anyone else splattered across a five mile radius

4.) A Nose for explosives- every night you may check a player and I will tell you if they have any explosives on them, you may do this in addition to handing out suicide bomber vests.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 12 2012 23:04 GMT
#417
you too.

have fun and good game <3.

don't blame the noobs if we lose.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 17:30 GMT
#608
Alright, alright, step aside.

/in it to win it.

I maybe new, but my senses are sharp, I know people and my Excel Spreadsheet was filling up, while reading this thread. So be assured, I will be active and vocal. There are some issues I want to mention. Here we go!

1) thoughts on campaigns (only the non-generic and interesting ones)
a) Bumatlarge (spoilered the lines to discuss (is that even English?):
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 13 2012 15:57 bumatlarge wrote:
The "Why Bum should be mayor" post

+ Show Spoiler +

L
wherebugsgo
Foolishness
BloodyC0bbler
Bill Murray
Palmar
Protactinium (Mystlord/Incognito)


Jack: You are awesome, so post like you are awesome. Don't post around what your actions will be that night, perform your actions around how you are posting. I've never been a jack so what do I know.
I am scanning for the best lynch at the moment, and I take what everyone says into account, so stop reading this and post.



I don't know about this whole "that's how we use the blues stuff". Why would he do that? I mean there's a bazillion guides out there. No reason to tell them how to play. That’s just not a game plan.
Also, the advice for the Jack doesn’t make any sense to me. If you are that special, don’t tell everyone or you will killed N1. “You are awesome, so post like you are awesome. […] I've never been a jack so what do I know.” Seems just off. And wrong.
Finally, the list to make of “Thread presence” people is not helping at all. Even I could’ve made this and this is my first game here.
=> Very unspecific campaign, not saying he’s scum. It’s just a bad campaign.

b)Foolishness
As odd as it may seem, this kind of makes sense. In my opinion, it would be very risky for the mafia to put 2 out of their 10 right into the spotlight. But this doesn’t mean both are town. If Fool is town then everything might be alright, on the other hand, if he’s scum he might as well spread confusion. Still kind of getting town vibes here.

c) BC.
The first campaign that actually has a game plan. Very focused. Straight forward: “I am running for mayor, I am accountable for my actions, I will question analyze…., I will harass lurkers, I will lead”. He doesn’t state things town could do to avoid unnecessary discussions. He’s not saying who he will lynch. No bullshit.
That is why I currently tend to vote him!

d) Meapak
Decent analysis what he thinks about the campaign. Little weak campaign, but signs of game plan as well. Really Townie!



2) EchelonTee -Mafia
Hmm. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=26#513
On the on hand, he provides candidates summaries, but that really is easy to do and a “scum thing” to fall back, if you know what I mean. Then he gets super intense about CCs (admittedly bad) posts.
That’s all alright, and I would be fine and not posting this, but then follows:
On January 13 2012 19:01 EchelonTee wrote:
Ah shit, forgot to take out the -Town tag after Wiggles. Well cats out of the bag, I think Wiggles is town.

This is either super obvious “Hey I am town and look for town” while being scum stuff or just a posting mistake. Then again, why would you add a “-town” tag into your post? Copy + Paste? Doesn’t make any sense to me. Something is off here. Super weird. This is just way to obvious.

3) Palmar.
To quote Entourage: “E doesn’t talk”. He made some one liners, but compared to TL-Mafia 48 (I believe…) it’s just nothing. One can see why you wouldn’t go for the mayor after this trouble. Still, this is very little which could well mean that he is blue and not try to get spotlighted or just what some guys have been posting, that he’s mafia and doesn’t really care at all. Needs more posts to be computed.

4) Cyrandor
C’mon guys give this guy a break, he made a couple of bad posts and claimed something wrong (kitaman), but isn’t this exactly the kind of stuff the mafia is looking for to blow up? Not saying he’s town, but it’s way too early to claim that he ain’t. It’s ok to be suspicious, but to lynch him right away? Nah…

That’s a wrap for my first post in mafia ever! At least I put some effort into it!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 17:30 GMT
#609
Ah shit, forgot to take out the -Mafia tag after Echelon. Well cats out of the bag, I think Echo is mafia.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 17:39 GMT
#616
On January 14 2012 02:34 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 02:30 Jayjay54 wrote:

4) Cyrandor
C’mon guys give this guy a break, he made a couple of bad posts and claimed something wrong (kitaman), but isn’t this exactly the kind of stuff the mafia is looking for to blow up? Not saying he’s town, but it’s way too early to claim that he ain’t. It’s ok to be suspicious, but to lynch him right away? Nah…



Wtf is this? Never give a break to someone you believe is scum. Push them until they prove otherwise. The threat of getting lynched is one of the strongest tools we have as town.


100% correct,

I was just saying that I don't believe yet he's scum and that scum would make a huge deal out of nothing.

Imo there are like 3 or 4 people who I'd rather lynch and get an idea. first one is -town guy.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 18:49 GMT
#644
I don't get it, BC. Why now?

From what I read here, you were on top of quite some voting lists, including mine? So why would you roleclaim when your campaign was good enough on its own.

Also, I'd like to line up with VE here. There's seriously nothing that says "I am town" here.

Or would you consider your claim a bad play if you were scum?

Therefore, I am glad that I didn't vote yet, because if I had, I had to unvote. Sceptical now.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 18:57 GMT
#647
On January 14 2012 03:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 03:49 Jayjay54 wrote:
I don't get it, BC. Why now?

From what I read here, you were on top of quite some voting lists, including mine? So why would you roleclaim when your campaign was good enough on its own.

Also, I'd like to line up with VE here. There's seriously nothing that says "I am town" here.

Or would you consider your claim a bad play if you were scum?

Therefore, I am glad that I didn't vote yet, because if I had, I had to unvote. Sceptical now.


Being a mayor or sheriff whereas would rock does not outweigh what masons in generally can fuck up later in the game. I am one of whatever the end number is. If i don't get elected fine, however, is making everyone aware of at least one of the players who is capable of being active in pms a bad thing? As opposed to just saying "wow now your scummy" Discuss how we want to operate around masons, pros, cons, etc...

Of all the roles in this setup, it is the only "confirmable role" but it is also insanely sinister as players can plant seeds of doubt, fish roles, etc...



and that's kinda what you just did. you seeded doubt. why not win the campaign => roleclaim => comfirm. how would that in any why fuck up late game?

the timing just seems off.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 19:17 GMT
#659
On January 14 2012 04:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 03:57 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 14 2012 03:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 03:49 Jayjay54 wrote:
I don't get it, BC. Why now?

From what I read here, you were on top of quite some voting lists, including mine? So why would you roleclaim when your campaign was good enough on its own.

Also, I'd like to line up with VE here. There's seriously nothing that says "I am town" here.

Or would you consider your claim a bad play if you were scum?

Therefore, I am glad that I didn't vote yet, because if I had, I had to unvote. Sceptical now.


Being a mayor or sheriff whereas would rock does not outweigh what masons in generally can fuck up later in the game. I am one of whatever the end number is. If i don't get elected fine, however, is making everyone aware of at least one of the players who is capable of being active in pms a bad thing? As opposed to just saying "wow now your scummy" Discuss how we want to operate around masons, pros, cons, etc...

Of all the roles in this setup, it is the only "confirmable role" but it is also insanely sinister as players can plant seeds of doubt, fish roles, etc...



and that's kinda what you just did. you seeded doubt. why not win the campaign => roleclaim => comfirm. how would that in any why fuck up late game?

the timing just seems off.


Because i believe its important to get the discussion with as early as possible? Masons act the instant day 1 begins. Whereas all other roles act at night in the exception of a jack using their mason ability (i believe).

This claim where "ill timed" only puts me at risk to a day 1 lynch to confirm my alignment. My role is confirmable. I can help assist the town via same actions I would do as a leader without the elected position, and with my claim mafia now has a hard time dealing with me.

HOW as a group, do we want to deal with all masons as a whole? I say this as simply put. Not everyone is going to be a mason. Anyone could be mason'd. With a role that is potentially in the hands of both scum and town alike we need to discuss this now. Anyone who has seen me play before recognizes my stance on role does not = alignment, and with a powerful role like mason this shit has to be dealt with sooner rather than later.





So you really think that having like 30 hours of discussion of how we should apply our masons do outweigh the pros of having a mason mayor? why is that?

especially. when we not even know if you're a) a mason and b) town. Your role is not even confirmable at this point. Scum buddy " YAY he mason"

Also, you say that with your claim it is hard for the mafia to deal with you. More than if you would've been mayor? How so?

The discussion "HOW as a group do we want to deal with all masons as a whole" didn't really need a roleclaim. It would have started automatically. Hell, you could even haven given some ideas within your campaign.

Sorry, I don't see any single reason why you would jeopardize your election with a roleclaim? Just to start a discussion how to deal with masons is really little - none benefit.


On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post?

I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later.

Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit.

Posted from phone, will post more later.


You posted TL links. How is this coming from a spreadsheet? Do you have links in your spreadsheet?
The mafia tag was a dig, yes.

Your thoughts on BM and BC are right, though

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 19:27 GMT
#667
On January 14 2012 04:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 04:17 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 14 2012 04:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 03:57 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 14 2012 03:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 03:49 Jayjay54 wrote:
I don't get it, BC. Why now?

From what I read here, you were on top of quite some voting lists, including mine? So why would you roleclaim when your campaign was good enough on its own.

Also, I'd like to line up with VE here. There's seriously nothing that says "I am town" here.

Or would you consider your claim a bad play if you were scum?

Therefore, I am glad that I didn't vote yet, because if I had, I had to unvote. Sceptical now.


Being a mayor or sheriff whereas would rock does not outweigh what masons in generally can fuck up later in the game. I am one of whatever the end number is. If i don't get elected fine, however, is making everyone aware of at least one of the players who is capable of being active in pms a bad thing? As opposed to just saying "wow now your scummy" Discuss how we want to operate around masons, pros, cons, etc...

Of all the roles in this setup, it is the only "confirmable role" but it is also insanely sinister as players can plant seeds of doubt, fish roles, etc...



and that's kinda what you just did. you seeded doubt. why not win the campaign => roleclaim => comfirm. how would that in any why fuck up late game?

the timing just seems off.


Because i believe its important to get the discussion with as early as possible? Masons act the instant day 1 begins. Whereas all other roles act at night in the exception of a jack using their mason ability (i believe).

This claim where "ill timed" only puts me at risk to a day 1 lynch to confirm my alignment. My role is confirmable. I can help assist the town via same actions I would do as a leader without the elected position, and with my claim mafia now has a hard time dealing with me.

HOW as a group, do we want to deal with all masons as a whole? I say this as simply put. Not everyone is going to be a mason. Anyone could be mason'd. With a role that is potentially in the hands of both scum and town alike we need to discuss this now. Anyone who has seen me play before recognizes my stance on role does not = alignment, and with a powerful role like mason this shit has to be dealt with sooner rather than later.





So you really think that having like 30 hours of discussion of how we should apply our masons do outweigh the pros of having a mason mayor? why is that?

especially. when we not even know if you're a) a mason and b) town. Your role is not even confirmable at this point. Scum buddy " YAY he mason"

Also, you say that with your claim it is hard for the mafia to deal with you. More than if you would've been mayor? How so?

The discussion "HOW as a group do we want to deal with all masons as a whole" didn't really need a roleclaim. It would have started automatically. Hell, you could even haven given some ideas within your campaign.

Sorry, I don't see any single reason why you would jeopardize your election with a roleclaim? Just to start a discussion how to deal with masons is really little - none benefit.


On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post?

I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later.

Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit.

Posted from phone, will post more later.


You posted TL links. How is this coming from a spreadsheet? Do you have links in your spreadsheet?
The mafia tag was a dig, yes.

Your thoughts on BM and BC are right, though



how is my role not confirmable? Say im scum and a scumbuddy says "yes he mason'd me" if i die and flip non mason red, both of us die and two mafia die? How is that effective at all.

as for me beginning the discussion without claiming. With how I feel on the matter, it would easily come out via my posting that I would be the role, as such, why not just claim it now and get it over with. I am being as transparent as possible, and putting forth an issue everyone has an opinion on. That in itself is insanely important day 1. Generating discussion in hopes that town wins is far more important than my run at an election.


your roleclaim is likely, but not sure. 2 people at risk for trust and doubt in townfolk isn't that bad of a deal.

by being transparent, you're actually not. You still didn't answer why you would jeopardize your campaign?

I'm not even saying you're scum, I just say that I think it's a bad move.
Being elected and being protected by 1(imo) bodyguard.Then roleclaim as mayor. Being able to talk to your guards. Get three votes. That would've been it...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 19:46 GMT
#677
On January 14 2012 04:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
What you are suggesting is the selfish move. I am a member of the town. One member is not more important than the rest. Am I more experienced than some? yes. However, this move itself is annoying for mafia to deal with. For instance.

Say that we only allow masons to work in pm's who claim publically as an example. If a single person fails to claim and someone gets mason'd they die. In that case you either catch a dumb fucking townie or a mafia. Does town decide to just ignore all mason requests and operate with everything in thread? Are all pm chains going to be placed in thread, etc...

Eliminating a powerful weapon from the mafia is insanely beneficial tactic that benefits the town. So say my jeopardizing my own election fucks the mafias abilities in the grand scheme to corrupt or manipulate townies via pms? Is that not worth it?

Townies should do most of the major posting and plans in thread at all times, so they have no real reason to use pms whereas mafia gets huge gains. As a mason can only talk 1 a player once for 1 cycle in a game, it is more beneficial for them as they can manipulate but don't suffer the long term scrutiny they would get if they talked to someone all game.



so you're saying, you interfering with the mafias powers because you conjure up a mass claim? is that your point? Or what is?

Because other than that your claim would just achieve nothing. No one knows, if you're really a mason (though I believe you here) and no one knows if you're town, since this claiming move could make sense while being scum as well.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 19:51 GMT
#679
On January 14 2012 04:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 04:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 14 2012 04:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote:
On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them.


WIFOM


Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch


how is that wifom? Why would I as red ever out myself and another mafia in the same day? Especially when if i had used my mason somewhere else i would be counterclaimed and die? It would mean i would have to hold onto my use and have a scumbuddy claim and thus waste my own power to corrupt a townie? It is pure logic, not wifom.

As for masons claiming? Things like this are what my claim were supposed to generate. Forcing people to only post in the thread for instance is a huge deal as it removes a scum form of play, etc...

The very fact you as a red shouldn't choose another red makes it wifom. You could do it in an attempt to give the other person cred in the event you flipped.


How does me flipping red or blue give cred to whoever I picked? It gives you no information on them aside from the fact I mason'd them. I can talk to people, not confirm their alignment, or anything. If i say i masoned x and i die and flip, regardless of my alignment you gain no information on that player aside from I talked to them.



he's saying that if you weren't a mason and you would booty call on your scum buddy to help you claim, then this could be wifom to save your scum buddy in case you turn red (in this very scenario)
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 20:01 GMT
#688
On January 14 2012 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 04:46 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 14 2012 04:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
What you are suggesting is the selfish move. I am a member of the town. One member is not more important than the rest. Am I more experienced than some? yes. However, this move itself is annoying for mafia to deal with. For instance.

Say that we only allow masons to work in pm's who claim publically as an example. If a single person fails to claim and someone gets mason'd they die. In that case you either catch a dumb fucking townie or a mafia. Does town decide to just ignore all mason requests and operate with everything in thread? Are all pm chains going to be placed in thread, etc...

Eliminating a powerful weapon from the mafia is insanely beneficial tactic that benefits the town. So say my jeopardizing my own election fucks the mafias abilities in the grand scheme to corrupt or manipulate townies via pms? Is that not worth it?

Townies should do most of the major posting and plans in thread at all times, so they have no real reason to use pms whereas mafia gets huge gains. As a mason can only talk 1 a player once for 1 cycle in a game, it is more beneficial for them as they can manipulate but don't suffer the long term scrutiny they would get if they talked to someone all game.



so you're saying, you interfering with the mafias powers because you conjure up a mass claim? is that your point? Or what is?

Because other than that your claim would just achieve nothing. No one knows, if you're really a mason (though I believe you here) and no one knows if you're town, since this claiming move could make sense while being scum as well.


Ok, say the town agrees that everyone just opts not to talk to masons. You don't talk to them making them an essentially useless role. How is this beneficial as red? Every mason mass claims and all those who dont who are caught acting are lynched and die as a townie has no reason to hide the fact and only a red does. Again making it hard for mafia to act as mafia are forced to claim mason or not use their role, all claimed masons have greater scruitiny as we all should. In the event all mason's are town, then sure we die, however mafia offs the more useless of town blue roles.

How as mafia does this make sense? It makes me look worse than I did before my claim, and I want people to actively discuss and potentially render my role useless? This is not mafia play at all. Which angle did I miss? The only way as red this looks good for me is "build town cred" at the cost of my entire team that I can see.


I am not saying you're scum. I just don't see the connection between your roleclaim and your plan to deal with masons.

How couldn't you made up this plan by itself, maybe even as part of your campaign?

Sample:
Under my mayorship every mason who masons is lynched. Bam.Problem solved. Discussion started. Everything as you wanted. No roleclaim whatsoever. Nice town mayor. Green trees. Happy feet.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 20:23 GMT
#698
On January 14 2012 05:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
except in that case i have to trust people to claim someone masoned them. Instead you could get a townie so sure on someones guilt he claims that person mason'd him, that person dies. He flips non mason then we off said townie.
Someone claims x mason'd them and they did we off a townie mason.
someone claims x mason'd we off a mafia mason
x gets mason'd and doesn't claim period. [r]1[/r]

townies have a huge track record of screwing up in pms over the years to the point that some players excel at them. In this game, foolishness, myself, incog, zeks, opz, bumatlarge, etc... all have an advantage over players who have played for a shorter time. Ie we are more likely to perform well with the role and hide our intentions if we are red fairly well. Whereas a person we talk to could out their role, not out the mason, etc... [r]2[/r]

By making the town decide, vocally, now, we force everyone to have an opinion. This gets it out in the open now and in turn gives information on pretty well every player. Getting a huge topic that is polarizing in opinion day 1 gives early early reads on players. Using the role as a way to generate good early reads on players that is also a role that could fubar the town far more sinisterly than say a roleblocker or failed vig shot imo is more useful. If my role instead leads us to getting early reads on the scumteam and solidifying a town win what do i care if i never get to use my mason ability again? [r]3[/r]


[r]1[/r] That's right, but I still don't think mafia would really use this feature. Also you could've put into the campaign the things you are proposing now: ignoring all masons, or mason role claiming. Whatever you wanted. You make it a headline and the discussion works in the same way. My point still stands...

[r]2[/r] Absolutely correct. There are players who are great at manipulating, but how is that in favour of your claiming.

[r]3[/r] It also may be misleading because we have a huge discussion on mechanics rather than who would be a powerful mayor. Early scumreads would be great, but you could've achieved them without claiming.

In addition you post this here:

On January 14 2012 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You will get a town read on me based on my actions. If i mason a scum, in pms he slips up and he dies and flips red because i outed his slip up I look better than I do now but am no way confirmed. If i do it multiple times maybe.


If you think your position is so bad now without somebody accusing you, why claim in the first place? To deteriorate your situtaion? Only to start a discussion? I'm afraid I don't follow your logic.

You answered quite a lot, yet couldn't provide any explainations convincing me that your claim was any good. Sorry. You lost my vote. And my trust
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 20:24 GMT
#699
turns out the tag is [red] rather than [r]. sorry for the formatting
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 20:25 GMT
#701
On January 14 2012 05:19 kitaman27 wrote:
BC, could you give a better explanation of why your claim benefits town? Is it simply to ensure that you are elected and have protection? You state that it is a polarizing topic that will generate discussion, but both scum and town can address the claim from both angles without giving up a whole lot of information about their alignment.

Why didn't you simply decide to run, get elected based on experience and popularity, and play the mason role as normal without public knowledge? To me, it seems unnecessary to open yourself up to a roleblock. The only benefit I can see is create a mason network for organizing blue information, but a day one claim is too early for this to be relevant and I don't see this as a beneficial plan currently with the thread of scum masons.


I don't think masons can be roleblocked, cause they operate during the day while the roleblocker is a creepy nightstalker.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 20:39 GMT
#715
On January 14 2012 05:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
BC's claim is actually pretty brilliant in my eye and here's why. Before claiming, BC was easily one of the top three candidates for mayor if not the top one. There's little doubt in my mind that BC would have gotten one of the elected positions. Now he could always claim once elected, however that's not a pressure position. He's got bodyguards and immunity from dt checks so there's no danger of dying if he's town, or being found out if he's scum.

However by claiming mid day like this it instantly puts a HUGE amount of pressure on him. All eyes are on him at the moment and his every action is being scrutinized. This is an extremely tough position to be in as scum. And so it begs the question, if BC is scum, what is the motivation for claiming like this? He had a great chance at being elected so why mess that up as scum?

With this claim BC is willingly taking the spotlight and the scrutiny. While he may be scum and have the biggest balls I've ever seen, I find it far more likely that he is doing his best to demonstrate his good intentions by willingly going on the hot seat. In conclusion, I can only think of town motives for claiming.


ok, so you're saying since he gets in the spotlight, there's no way he can be scum. disagree. From my humble point of view.

say scenario a) BC town. Starts a discussion about mechanics which he finds really important and tries to thwart mafia masons, as they are a lot better than our masons. Maybe gets mayor due to power. I don't see other benefits.

discussion could've been started on its own or even as part of his campaign, while still reatining his powers. IMO this would have been the way better play. He says himself he's in a bad position now.

scenario b) BC scum. Starts like 4 pages of shit storm. No one, No oooone discusses who should become mayor. Chaos is spreaded, we don't get a good read which mayors have town allignment, because we are busy discussing mechanics which we really should do in night 1 where the masons are passive anyway. This discussion just does harm. Seriously. Maybe gets mayor due to power claim.

So yeah, there is your motivation: starting a discussion at the election day, which we easily could have in night one. Spreading chaos and maybe even get a scum mayor while appearing as "the good guy".


I am still not saying that he's scum, but both scenarios work out and I still think scenario a could've been played better.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 20:45 GMT
#717
On January 14 2012 05:31 kitaman27 wrote:

I disagree with a mass mason claim. A mason is a town favored role. Denying the mafia mason is not the priority. I'd be more than happy if a scum mason tried to contact me, considering they are now pressured into openly sharing their reads. People tend to have loose lips when regarding pms, but if you always consider their motives and agenda then there is no problem. With a mass claim, the scum team is free to pick off or roleblock blues. Suppose there are 4 mason claims and two get shot night one and flip town. Does that tell us anything about the remaining two masons? Not really.


this is a really bad post imo.

1) no it's most certainly not town favoured. the mafia gets to prove read every single PM. while mafia can just target weak players in our team and thus spread confusing.

2) how on earth wouldn't it tell us something about the remaining masons? you say that townies claimed wrong? because in this scenario 4 masons are claimed, 2 are most certainly mafia, aren't they?

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 20:51 GMT
#724
On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.


I second that.

Come on out masons!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 21:06 GMT
#735
On January 14 2012 05:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 05:51 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.


I second that.

Come on out masons!

Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now.


well if town chooses to ignore the masons, than these guys are actually not blue. So they know the identity of two people without any power. yay. why would a medic protect a powerless masons?

And we also would take away a very powerful role from the mafia.

I think it's a great move, as I think good players can handle pming with mafia, worse players are actually manipulated. Plus, mafia gets to proof read, while town don't.

So again, here's the logic.

Scum Mason > Town Mason => eliminate all masons => 0>0!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 21:18 GMT
#739
On January 14 2012 06:09 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 06:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 06:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:
On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.

So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*


to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_-

...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia.


fair point.

Thank you for that respect, good sir.


so you're saying that the masoning has not been mod confirmed? or what rule didn't you want to violate?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 21:45 GMT
#751
hmm BC told a story where he destroyed town as a mason. And was so afraid of masons that he immediately claimed. Either he's serious about that or he's scum. Both can be true.

So I guess yes, I disagree with some of you. And here's why:

I think that it is very very difficult to confirm scum in PM with whole mafia proof read backup. I also think that it is well possible for a well experienced player to manipulate somebody or find roles through PMs.

I hope, one can see my point. I can certainly see yours, but I just have a different opinion and therefore support sandros mass claim idea.

_____________________

The idea to randomly lynch 0,1,2 BG is basically, yes, random. I don't see why the mafia wouldn't make use of the subsitution ability. I don't know if they replace both or just one. 2 seems risky, but you never know.

I can't see any benefit of randomly lynching one BG when you have a 50/50 (in the 1 replace scenario) chance to kill your protector.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 22:01 GMT
#758
On January 14 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.

My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum.


Man, don't worry about it, you're fine <3 I am just glad that I joined and having some fun here

I guess we agree that a powerful town mason can most certainly find scum. I guess we also agree that a powerful scum mason can cause a lot of destruction.

Town already has a percentage where he ends up PMing town. And the whole mafia thread backs up every PM to prevent scumslips.

Mafia ends up PMing 100% a townie and they will not choose the good players, because they know that they would be at risk. They talk to weaker players and there's a good chance that things are screwed up or a role is found.

So again, I think scum mason > town mason and I stand by that, even if I was never involved in such a game. It's just the way my logic sees it.

You say, BC can be deadly as town and you're right. Yet he chooses to give away this advantage, because he thinks scum PMs are too strong and even makes it a priority topic. Also, mafia would never mason him, because he's a strong player.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 22:16 GMT
#766
On January 14 2012 07:10 kitaman27 wrote:
What you're overlooking is that a scum mason Palmar probably isn't going to be masoning Macpo, he is likely going to want to talk to bugs or sandroba. The people who are going to be targeted by masons are experienced players because those are the people it is most beneficial to bounce ideas off of.

If experienced scum A is masoned with experienced town B, town has the advantage.


If we learn that Foolishness is masoning random noob x and secretly trying to role fish and convince him to vig shoot a likely townie, well then he has to risk having the incriminating logs posted against him later on.



the first two blocks totally contradict themselves. you say if an experienced scum masons experienced town, town has an advantage. Alright, I agree. Then why the hell would mafia mason an experienced player and get into a disadvantageous position?

and of course foolishness would wind up being revealed and not make sure that "scum doesn't have to know I am mason, please don't tell thread" in a convincing way. Come on. It is much more subtle than that. And I am quite sure that they would target the weaker players.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 22:34 GMT
#779
On January 14 2012 07:25 Kenpachi wrote:
id like a gist of what is going on right now


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=26#513

this post has all the mayor candidate posts until then, my good friend.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 13 2012 23:06 GMT
#789
On January 14 2012 07:39 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 07:17 Mattchew wrote:
On January 14 2012 07:14 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This is an interesting conversation, you haven't convinced me but some good points have been brought up. What happens if a mason chooses not to claim when you all order them to? Do you lynch him the second he comes out on the policy of LaL? I just feel like this whole plan is very shortsighted.

And on that note I'd like to get back to the mayor/sheriff discussion. The last thing we want is to get completely sidetracked day 1. Bc's claim created good discussion and created a lot of material however we need to refocus and get done what needs to be done.

I still support BC to be my sheriff, however given that a lot of people are nervous of him because of his claim I'd like to remind people that Kita is my second choice. If you can't bring yourself to vote BC then vote kita. He's made some good points and he's probably best option behind bc.

I'd really like to hear from L right now. He's the only really good vet who hasn't checked in yet and I'd love to hear what he has to say about mayor.


who is you? (curiosity not accusatory)


Meapak is a baller. Doesn't mean he's town, but he's pretty good.


you should really try to post with more than one line.

I personally like Meapak's campaign and how he approaches the thread. Maybe he's outsmarting me, but I get town vibes.

After BC is not longer a mayor option for me, I'm thinking of voting Meapak...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 00:05 GMT
#794
Hmm. As this thread slowed down a bit, could all the candidates please say what their lynch plan for day one is and why? would be quite nice for the town!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 00:10 GMT
#798
On January 14 2012 09:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 07:51 Foolishness wrote:
On January 14 2012 00:50 Kurumi wrote:
Why would someone create a campaign for someone else without seeing him post ever?

If anyone is voting for someone partly with the reason of "he's a good player" then they are doing the same thing. Don't know why you choose to call me out instead of any of the other lackluster votes. At least I have a plan and reasoning.


I found Foolish's campaign to be both hilarious and appropriate and will support either BM or BC today. I still think people should vote for me, but the general consensus seems to be that I'm not experienced enough, which is totally fair. I don't think I'm totally out of the running though, so I'm not going to withdraw quite yet...but expect me to withdraw if I don't get any more support by 12 hours to deadline.


alright my vote is on sale. Do you still intend to lynch palmar?

how do you feel about the second mason claim?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 00:12 GMT
#799
sorry bro you got me ninja's
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 00:16 GMT
#805
I voted Meapak, he was the only campaign besides BCs which had a plan.

If the field clears up, I might change my vote again in order to not vote in vain.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 00:34 GMT
#810
On January 14 2012 09:14 kingjames01 wrote:
Also, consider for the moment, that BC may be mafia Jack.

If he uses his Mason power on Day 1 to establish his credibility and then is subsequently elected to office, we will not be able to find the mafia Jack.

It is a risk, but I know that BC will take that risk. He is very much a medium-risk, high-reward player.

EVERYONE! WHAT HAPPENS IF BLOODYC0BBLER IS MAFIA JACK?


I consider this scenario involving BC to be within his bag of tricks, and I will not vote to elect him into office.


he doesn't have to be a jack. A red BC would be bad enough. Any red mayor would instantly result in 0 mafia bodyguards, a well protected mischief triple voter. And a good player. Most likely GG.

If BC is town and we can be sure of that, BC is the way to go. But that role claim timing was so strange.

Looking at his current 6 votes, he is en route to become mayor. This scares me a little.

Maybe BC should start of saying who he masoned? He said he doesn't want to say rightaway because he doesn't want to spoil a focussed discussion. Now is the time BC. Who'd you mason?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 01:26 GMT
#821
@wiggles, yup, those ideas are not compatible

@WBG I asked for that too. He shouldve done it way earlier. but it seems to work either way hes got a lot of votes.

@toad, so you say because he hasnt got any support he's town? because no one has support yet except of BC-...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 01:32 GMT
#826
On January 14 2012 10:28 Toadesstern wrote:
nono it's better. There's plenty of people who don't have support. VE and BM are the only ones a lot of people think is a bad choice!


his campaign doesn't really radiate confidence. wouldn't take it as a towntell...

other than that: /sleep <3
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 01:34 GMT
#827
uhm I mean, he DOES radiate confidence and is definitely town. I'll be Minister! Yay!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 12:45 GMT
#1010
Hi friends! Up and awake. Spending my time at a Starbucks in order to stay on track. Sorry if I cover older posts in my analysis, I was asleep.
Topics to discuss:
A) Mattchew
Let’s analyze his post.
On January 14 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote:

I am running for Mayor.


I believe you should vote for me because I am confirmed town. How? Let me explain.

I am a mason who used my first "masoning" on Foolishness. In the past I have proven not great at this game both as mafia and as town. I also have not been a good listener to scum team advice when it is given to me. So the odds of a scum team picking me to be their mason is slim to none.
Not really an argument. A variance of the usual “I suck at scum”. Nothing special.
Also, the fact that I pm'd arguably the best townie player in the game should prove in itself that I am town. I am not a vet or a well regarded player, why would any scum team even consider the thought of letting me either
a. (if foolishness is also scum) claim to PM one of their best players and spotlight him
or
b. (if foolishness is town) let me PM one of the best townies and maybe get myself caught.

This is logic.
This make sense. Why would mafia PM the best town player straight away? After he already started a campaign for BM. There is no real perspective for scum here. And the idea that both are scum is strange, too. The BM campaign wouldn’t make sense. There’s no chance that all 3 are scum.

Why should we vote you if you are bad?

A. I am confirmed town. This is by far the best reason to elect me.
Not really confirmed. But by logic he’s likely town.
B. I would become a roleblock immune, mason, with either 3 votes (mayor) or a jailing ability.
Masons can’t get roleblock! They have a day action. So B is not really an issue. The townish vibes make the difference here.
C. The fact that I am a mason allows me to solicit advice on my actions behind closed doors from veteran players. While I obviously will be extremely skeptical in everything they tell me, it is better than a Mayor acting purely on his own. I will not be manipulated because I will present the options and ask their opinions on them. I will not be asking broad questions, yet specific questions to leave little to no room for scum influence.
Makes sense to me. That is why the BC claim timing was so odd to me. He would have had a great chance to become mayor.

What is your stance on Mayoral Issues.

I will be active. I can read and respond while at work. Monday - Friday I should be on and reading from 13:30 GMT (+00:00) to 04:00 GMT (+00:00). Saturday and sunday I will be reading and responding while watching football but as the day progresses I will probably be getting more and more drunk, around 03:00 GMT (+00:00).

The standard obligatory "I suck at scum"

I currently am looking at 3 candidates for the day 1 lynch and will be open to discussion on all 3.
Those 3 are (in no particular order) Ciryandor, Mapco, Chaosquo is also good.
The mayor downside of his post . I agree with WBG here, these candidates suck. Would like to see Echelot or Palmar here. Mapco is a new player, you can clearly see it. So why lynch him.

I am now open for questions for the next half hour or so before company arrives at my house and I will be offline until 16:00 GMT (+00:00)

[/b]
That being said, before he was roleclaiming, he already posted some really townish posts to back him up like this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#605
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#612
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=35#682
He is clearly applying logic to help town. Passionately fighting for the right townplay. Thinking ahead and providing opinions and information. I like this. A lot.
In the bigger picture, his playstyle alongside masoning foolishness doesn’t make sense as a scum play. The PM log seems consistent to other stuff they’ve been saying. E.g. foolishness attitude towards masons. It’s either well faked or real.
Foolishness would never suggest his mafia buddy BM if he were scum only to proceed and claim another scum buddy. That’s way too risky.
Therefore, I am convinced. And my townread clearly outweigh the disagreement in the lynch choices. So here it is:
##vote Mattchew


2) @ foolishness, just a quick question. Where is this coming from, did he mason you or is it just assuming because of his posts?
On January 14 2012 09:16 Foolishness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 09:05 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hmm. As this thread slowed down a bit, could all the candidates please say what their lynch plan for day one is and why? would be quite nice for the town!

As I speak on the behalf of the candidacy of the one and only BILL MURRAY I can tell you right now that he will be lynching Chaosquo.



3) Our lovely hydra Protactinium
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=44#870
I’m not going to make a detailed case on his post. I just think it’s really good and focused. Have the same feeling about BC. Everyone read this post and consider unvoting him. There’s something off here. Like I stated in a bazillion post after his roleclaim. He started a discussion, he could’ve easily started differently. Also, there was no need to this at day 1, but night 1. I don’t feel comfortable with him as a mayor.
The roleclaim made zeeero sense. Read his filter, he doesn’t provide any reasonable explantion. He argues about how to deal with masons, but not why he claimed.
So why not vote him then? I like his lynch candidate and analysis and I think he’s town, but IMO a mason as mayor could be helping a lot. That’s why my vote is on mattchew even though I am completely onboard the we should lynch BC train!


4) sandro
On January 14 2012 15:49 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 15:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Sandroba mason me bro!

Nah you don't interest me. Plus I wish I could. Maybe I can. Who the fuck knows.

This post was just odd to me. He was the one who initiated the mass claim, why post something like this now. Seems inconsistent.


5) Echelon
On January 14 2012 04:17 Jayjay54 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post?

I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later.

Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit.

Posted from phone, will post more later.


You posted TL links. How is this coming from a spreadsheet? Do you have links in your spreadsheet?
The mafia tag was a dig, yes.

Your thoughts on BM and BC are right, though


I am still waiting for an explanation here. Seriously. Step up.


6) Opz
On January 14 2012 06:18 Jayjay54 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 06:09 ~OpZ~ wrote:
On January 14 2012 06:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 06:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:
On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.

So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*


to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_-

...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia.


fair point.

Thank you for that respect, good sir.


so you're saying that the masoning has not been mod confirmed? or what rule didn't you want to violate?

still waiting for an answer here as well. Not to accuse you. But I just don’t get what happened. You masoned him, you didn’t get confirmation and thus you never wrote him? Wth?


Finally this post here)
On January 14 2012 13:52 Maxella wrote:
How do you guys even have the time to read all of this? I'm back on Page 32 and there are 45 pages so far? And we're still in day 1? This is bonkers ... I'm skipping a solid 15 pages of conversation and doing the only thing that makes sense.

##Vote Bill Murray for Mayor.

Why? He survived the zombie apocolypse. That's good enough for me

post is either dumb, bonkerz or stupid. I am not sure yet…


So that’s it for now.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 15:35 GMT
#1021
alright CC let's do this.

On January 15 2012 00:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Some people won't really get a segment here. I'm a little bit more busy than I'd like, so if you want more information, you'll have to prod me for it.

Competitors I would consider lynching
Risk.Nuke- He disappeared off the face of the earth after a few posts.
He made some bad posts and then disappears, agree. It's odd, but some people have to do stuff on the weekend. He's def a candidate though

Slardar- Makes a more or less throwaway campaign long after theres about 10 candidates. Has barely any thread presence.
Also a candidate. Really generic. To little profile


BC for his anti-town plan.
I already said a bunch about BC in my post on this page



Other people we should't elect
Mattchew seems to have his campaign revolve heavily around his role, and is keen on WIFOM. He also seems a little bit too easily influenced, and I don't want to risk scum masons taking the mayors votes. I wouldn't be surprised if he was only running because Foolishness told him to.

I can certainly see what you're saying, but imo he's the towniest candidate we have. And being a mason really could help.

Sandroba.

seems town to me, but the post I quoted in my other post made me a little suspicious.

Neutral
Bumatlarge directed blues, and wants to kill me, so I'll pass.
his campaign sucked. Wouldn't vote him.

Wiggles.
neutral to me as well.

Would like to vote for
VisceraEyes currently has my vote. This is more because I want him to stick in the running and see what his next move is more than anything.
VE is probably more influencable (is that a word?) than mattchew. Doesn't really have a clear plan from my point of view.

Kitaman.
Not sure what I think of him.

Protactinium has no campaign promises or anything to hold him to, akin to wiggles, except he made the original case on BC, so he ranks a little higher.
He solely bases his campaign on one lynch. Though the hydra is a great player, that's too little to vote for him imo. Didn't state what his gameplan is

Would probably vote for
Bill Murray. He's very active, and seems willing to listen to people while thinking for himself.
Not sure about him. He kind of slided into his campaign by foolishness. Did a couple of good statement and seems townish.

Meapak is a strong contender.
good campaign imo, he had my first vote. still is a candidate for me, but right now I stick with mattchew

Myself, if it was an option.
Not sure about you either <3

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 15:54 GMT
#1024
On January 15 2012 00:41 L wrote:
2) I'm voting for me. L for Mayor.

And why is that? if this is a campaign, game plan and lynch candidates or it didn't happen

3) The best defensive votes statistically are on players who currently aren't winning but posted pre-canned candidacies. The best offensive votes are on players who have crumbed a role that isn't mason.

I'm not sure, I follow here. So you say, because too few people are complaining, the people who are winning may be scum.

I'd like to point out that nobody is really winning at this point. And as you rightfully said, people need to vote ASAP. In the current state it will be so easy for scum to hijack a bandwagon and take it to the scummayor station. What I mean is, that right now, no mafia kingmaker is required, because we are voting shitty and by that I mean that we aren't actually voting.

So again, people need to vote or it will be a chaos before deadline in which the scum candidate has a good chance of winning.

That being said, why should we vote for a not winner pre-canned candidate. I don't see much reasoning behind it. And why not use the mason? If we think one's town, he'll be a candidate.



P.S. Rainbow text is fucking hard.

I thought so as I read it.



Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 15:57 GMT
#1025
Also. L you can't actually vote for yourself buddy

so pick another candidate
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 16:31 GMT
#1037
On January 15 2012 01:04 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 00:57 Jayjay54 wrote:
Also. L you can't actually vote for yourself buddy

so pick another candidate

Crud.

Really bogus.

Using the above logic to inform my lynch, I'd probably shoot one of the four people I mentioned as frontrunners, but that's assuming nothing else comes up in the period from now until then.

Most of the arguments posted in the thread thusfar with respect to lynch choice are rather weak.

But s'ok. I got you covered, bros.


Actually, the only one I really want to lynch right now is BC. read my filter. I stated a lot of solid arguements to say why. Read my filter for more information. So please don't say I have rather weak arguements when I in fact made some solid points on BC.

Echelot's "-town" thing still doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. And he seems to avoid explanations. So he would be my second in the lynch que. Except if he explains himself a little better.

"url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=23#442]Wiggles[/url] - town"

how is this to come from a spreadsheet? how? Does he keep links and then adds the town. And how did he have a townread on wiggles after 20 seconds?

Your strategy of just randomly lynching a top candidate because he could get some votes isn't really great either.

But as BC is the candidate with the most votes, I'd settle here. Maybe you're right and the mafia is quite because the already win the race. This would be in line with my current reads...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 17:04 GMT
#1043
On January 15 2012 01:50 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 01:31 Jayjay54 wrote:

Actually, the only one I really want to lynch right now is BC. read my filter. I stated a lot of solid arguements to say why. Read my filter for more information. So please don't say I have rather weak arguements when I in fact made some solid points on BC.

I kinda liked your posting until this part. Way too defensive. I stated the majority of the argumentation in the THREAD was weak and you took it as a personal attack.

Odd.


Oh, then it was a misunderstanding. You got me quoted and your start of the post was directed at me. Then you continue to post about your lynches which also was an answer to my "whats your campaign part". I was assuming you were still directed at me and thus talking about MY arguements.

On January 15 2012 01:55 Bill Murray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 00:59 L wrote:
The capitalization of Your and You makes me feel like a king. Keep it up.

BC is currently sitting in the lead with 5 votes. Both of Foolishness' puppets, if you will, Mattchew and Bill Murray are sitting at 3 apiece. Proactinium also has 3. Basically there are 4 people who are 'out front' with a total of 14 votes down between them.

Thread tone indicates that at least one or more of them is mafia. We'd have a better shot of keeping our elected office clean by throwing the offices to random people (20% chance vs. 25%+ chance), and that's not a good thing.

THIS for the love of God, THIS

I need to catch up, but that's why I stopped voting BC, and am not voting for a mason for mayor
it is statistically worse


yeah statistically, we have to use our reads to see who's town and who's not. duh.

what is your plan for voting now? role a dice 50?



Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 17:29 GMT
#1046
On January 15 2012 02:17 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
He made some bad posts and then disappears, agree. It's odd, but some people have to do stuff on the weekend. He's def a candidate though - Jay

I just realised this. Look at my posthistory and tell me if you would describe it as "I made some bad posts".
SCUM for softdefending me without seeing my filter.


I don't know, if I should respond to that. L had a point and called me out for a reason. I like to clarify things then. And it is important to do so.

But your accusation is clearly OMGUS. I didn't even really accuse you and said you might be busy during the weekend. Who are you to tell me that I didn't look into your filter and that I don't keep a spreadsheet? That's just not right. Also, notice how I said bad, not scummy.


So a) you're campaign "always a townie" was just. well, bad. I didn't like it, it felt generic, it was badly formated and it lacked a solid gameplan.

b) calling out rgSchworz because he didn't like your campaign either in a very agressive and condescending way. again, not even really scummy. just bad.

All in all yeah, I think you are one candidate to look out for. After this post even more. Although, and I repeat myself here, I don't even think you're scummy, but you seem scummy, because your posts lack quality.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 17:30 GMT
#1047
I say 'bad' a lot.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 17:39 GMT
#1056
On January 15 2012 02:32 Mattchew wrote:
yay for risk.nuke and jayjay tunneling one another because they disagree


shouldn't have answered, my bad.

On January 15 2012 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken and fail at reading comprehension, BC has promised to out his mason partner "shortly" and has failed to do so in almost 24 hours...which is a long-ass time in a 48 hour day, not "shortly".

Anyone voting for BC needs to stop doing that. His alignment needs to be confirmed. Making him mayor is the worst choice town can make right now.

Also, someone has masoned me and I need to know what everyone thinks we should do about it. It feels like a mafia mason, but I'm inexperienced and don't want to make that call myself.

I'm still reading, just putting this stuff out there.


This right here. BC fails to deliver his mason. and still leads in the votes.

You guys here, unvote! At least until he's shown his hand by announcing who he masoned. Then, you can def choose to vote him again:
+ Show Spoiler +

zeks
GGQ
risk.nuke <3
Lanaia
Meapak_Ziphh
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 17:41 GMT
#1057
oh and I'm in favor of letting the Pming continue for a while, he may choose to post the log if he has gathered more information.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 18:29 GMT
#1102
On January 15 2012 03:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 03:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
How does the fact that I pulled out of the elections make me more suspicious?

And did you completely ignore my plea for help regarding my mason situation? Or do you not care because now I'm suspicious?


You as a former candidate go out of your way to encourage people to withdraw votes based on a lie. You can say you misread my post which potentially believable due to its length I find unlikely. If people were actively waiting for a piece of information then my large posts theoretically should be read carefully for said information. You are not like jay who has been on my nuts all game.

Had you chosen to encourage people to not vote for me as I claimed mason and had solid reasons behind it then I would see you as more townlike, as it would also be discrediting another player with the same claim. By opting to instead cherry pick one candidate over the other I see an inconsistancy. I say this as you made mention before in thread that you had reservations of electing me before as my alignment with my role was not provable (minus a lynching obviously), however this issue would be near identical to another mason and had you kept with that line of thinking as two masons were in the running I would have understood.

Singling me out however, via incorrect information, is why you are on my list.


sup?

first of all, I want to say sorry for saying the unvote thing. Regardless of what my read is of you, people should've unvoted you, if you didn't name your mason buddy. Which you did and therefore my statement was wront. I missed it, sorry! But it was well hidden. Normally such an anouncement is bold and on top of a post. But I guess, you have your reasons.

Then, I was not on your nuts all game long. In the beginning, I actually was your biggest stan and saying your campaign is the best. Enter your roleclaim. As I stated like a billion times the motives behind it is still unclear to me.

If you can describe me the upsides of your roleclaim, I will not think of you as scum again. Even more so, If you convince me your really town favoured, I will vote you again, since your campaign was the best and you're a good player.

But since you kind of just nourished the discussion, but never thematized the timing of the roleclaim, you're scummy to me.

The Hydra's case on you is pretty good IMO and is in line of what I believe.

I try to be constructive, not just choose a player and piss him off.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 18:35 GMT
#1110
On January 15 2012 03:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 03:24 Mattchew wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Exactly how did you figure that a player who made a troll campaign for someone who hadn't even spoken yet was the most town?


Can you link me to where I said this. I said I took a risk and pm'd the best town player, not the most townie person.

Your a new player right? Or relatively so? How would you know if Foolishness was the best town player in the game?

Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 03:23 Mattchew wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:16 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 14 2012 11:39 Mattchew wrote:
On January 14 2012 10:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Mattchew, what form of communication did you use with Foolishness? Would you mind sharing the logs? (Since foolishness thinks they make you look town, or that's what I'm inferring)

@Bum: I got the feeling from Cyber_Cheese that he just wanted to stir shit up all day long. A lot of his posts look to me like they're asking questions or making statements that someone could easily grab on to and start a pointless argument. Not generally conducive to a good town atmosphere.


Sorry I missed this post.

I pm'd him.

Since theres not that much here I'll give you mostly everything.1


Original Message From Foolishness:
I'm still catching up, but as I've already said in the thread, Bill Murray is someone who we can keep under control2, and if he's mafia it will become apparent rather early (if for no other reason he's an incredibly active player).

Yes, well, there's not much point in hiding it from you. You've never played a game with me before, I highly doubt your mafia team (assuming you're mafia of course) would authorize you to mason me day 1. If the mafia wanted to mason me, I'm sure they'd pick one of their more elite members (no offense) or someone who has played with me a lot. Especially since they would be paranoid I'd figure you out. Also remember the mafia get to choose who among them is a mason.

You don't want to post that because that gives away that you're a mason. If you don't die that night you will die the next night. What other motivation would you have for saying that right before the day post unless you were in contact with me?

Yeah, if you really want me to breadcrumb who you should mason with I can, but it be better for you to just go with your instinct. Easier for me to just give you a suggestion right before night ends anyways.

Original Message From Mattchew:
Is there any motive behind your endorsement of Bill Murray, I think him BC and Meapack are the 3 I like most (BM being purely based off your endorsement).

Also, its pretty prudent that you hide if you are scum from me. I am letting you know that I do not take your word of I'm a townie without a grain of salt.

What would you say to me posting "if i die foolishness is mafia" right before the day 2 post.

Also, if you are to survive into day 2 would you be willing to breadcrumb with me who I should mason and have mason'd back and forth?

Original Message From Foolishness:
okay

Since there's no point in hiding it from you I'm a townie. What you want to do for this game is Mason with the town players, or anyone who you think is town. Masoning with the mafia isn't going to help you because they can just go afk for a day and you won't be able to get any information out of them. Since there are mafia mason's you probably want to avoid masoning blue roles since they might be paranoid you're mafia.

So in the future, just mason with people who are active and making sense in the thread, your standard townies. Too early for me to give you suggestions for the future.

I still need to catch up in the thread though. From where I am (like page 25 lol) none of the mayor candidates look promising so far.

Original Message From Mattchew:
Sup Brohan,

Its me the Town Mason.

The reason I mason'd you was because I have a strong town read on you, know that you're a vet and an extremely strong town player. Also, I wanted to mason you now as many have mentioned you tend to get killed early on in games.

So I have never played a mason before, mind telling me how you think in a game of 50 I can go about this? I only get a night/day cycle per person so I hope that I can get as much information from you and other vets early on as well on how to play this role. I am also open to suggestions about who the next person I mason is.

hit me back, just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan, this is matt


Original Message From Foolishness:
Okay I have to run for the evening so I'm making my post now.

Original Message From Mattchew:
Idk what you should say exactly, but I would try to drive home the fact that I am confirmed town, and regardless of whether or not you are scum or town, you would be saying that...

I'll start writing my campaign page thing in like 20 minutes

Original Message From Foolishness:
Okay I can do that. Is there anything else you want me to mention in my post?

Ciryandor is fine. Mapco seems like a good lynch. Chaosquo is also good.

Original Message From Mattchew:
Ok so I wanna run. I think the best way to start would be you announcing that I am going to run (proving that I have been pm'ing you and then both of us explaining why I am town and why I would be a good mayor. Any ideas on my stance on who to lynch, I was thinking ciryandor maybe.

Original Message From Foolishness:
Well yes, assuming you want to get into office claiming mason is the way to get there. And don't be worried about me. I prefer not to be in office so pick whoever you think is most pro-town (probably BC) and roll with that. It's basically a question of whether you want to claim or not. If you're going to claim you might as well run for office. Otherwise don't claim.

Original Message From Mattchew:
I think me claiming mason can help my campaign. It might also be the end of you lol. I think that being role block immune, mason, and confirmed town is a pretty good start for a mayor. I also want to endorse someone to run with me. I would say you but I don't know exactly how that would look. I think that endorsing meapack or BC would be the best options as long as they are actually townies. If I were to win the election I could illicit their opinions afterwords if they were to win as well. Me and a townie vet at the helm of town could be pretty powerful.


[quote]


On January 14 2012 11:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Hey mattchew, why are you ignoring me?

And don't call yourself confirmed.


Didn't intentionally ignore you my apologies

1 Mostly everything? as in, this wasn't everything?
2 I blame L for noticing this. Why is Foolishness talking about controlling BM?
3 Could you add some time-stamps?


1 I double pm'd him. here are 2 that i sent out
2 I don't want to speak for him, but i think he feels anytime BM is scum he can catch him extremely quickly
3 + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]

Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 06:10 flamewheel wrote:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
  • Posting screenshots of your inbox.

...


I gotta agree here. This is cheating
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 18:39 GMT
#1114
On January 15 2012 03:35 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 02:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 02:17 risk.nuke wrote:
He made some bad posts and then disappears, agree. It's odd, but some people have to do stuff on the weekend. He's def a candidate though - Jay

I just realised this. Look at my posthistory and tell me if you would describe it as "I made some bad posts".
SCUM for softdefending me without seeing my filter.


I don't know, if I should respond to that. L had a point and called me out for a reason. I like to clarify things then. And it is important to do so.

But your accusation is clearly OMGUS. I didn't even really accuse you and said you might be busy during the weekend. Who are you to tell me that I didn't look into your filter and that I don't keep a spreadsheet? That's just not right. Also, notice how I said bad, not scummy.


So a) you're campaign "always a townie" was just. well, bad. I didn't like it, it felt generic, it was badly formated and it lacked a solid gameplan.

b) calling out rgSchworz because he didn't like your campaign either in a very agressive and condescending way. again, not even really scummy. just bad.

All in all yeah, I think you are one candidate to look out for. After this post even more. Although, and I repeat myself here, I don't even think you're scummy, but you seem scummy, because your posts lack quality.

What omgus are you speaking of? Try to get into my head as I am getting into his head. He is doing a typical scum-move, softdefend the townie, In itself it's not a scummy move. Scum loves to do this but townies do this to and that is not what I am reacting on. Here is the thing. Jay refered to my posts as bad. Which to anyone who looks at them could see they are clearly not bad. They are few but there isn't a single irrelevant/bad post in there. So why would anyone call them bad? Well they wouldn't. So why would Jay defend me without reading my filter. Well because he is scum and therefor know I am town and unluckily assumed that the reason I was looked at was a bad post. He was beeing uncarefull and made a scumslip. And Jay haven't accused me so how can It be omgus. Look at the mass contradictions in his followup post. "I wasn't accusing you, but this is omgus" and "I don't think you're scum but you're scummy" <--- WHAT?
He is also bringing up rgSchwors which makes no sense unless perhaps feels it's more pro-town to ignore attacks on you.
I was just arguing/discussion with rhSchwors when he attacked my candidacy which is the natural thing to do. He's just trying hard to make me look bad.
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 02:32 Mattchew wrote:
yay for risk.nuke and jayjay tunneling one another because they disagree


mattchew, he might be tunneling the me, but I am clearly not tunneling him with one post. Why on earth did you make a post like that for because it's purpose seemed to be to minimize, lessen and prevent discussion of this. Which seems incredibly biased.

If I'm elected I'll lynch Jay, I support BC for the election stronger then before because of jay's efforts against him.


I most certainly accused you. "He's def a candidate though" is what you call defending? Maybe you weren't as good of a lawyer.

And saying I'm scum is pretty much tunneling. And just because I think your posts are bad? Of course, you think they're good, but there may be differen opinions.

Finally, please format your posts a little better.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 18:59 GMT
#1120
On January 15 2012 03:46 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 03:39 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:35 risk.nuke wrote:
On January 15 2012 02:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 02:17 risk.nuke wrote:
He made some bad posts and then disappears, agree. It's odd, but some people have to do stuff on the weekend. He's def a candidate though - Jay

I just realised this. Look at my posthistory and tell me if you would describe it as "I made some bad posts".
SCUM for softdefending me without seeing my filter.


I don't know, if I should respond to that. L had a point and called me out for a reason. I like to clarify things then. And it is important to do so.

But your accusation is clearly OMGUS. I didn't even really accuse you and said you might be busy during the weekend. Who are you to tell me that I didn't look into your filter and that I don't keep a spreadsheet? That's just not right. Also, notice how I said bad, not scummy.


So a) you're campaign "always a townie" was just. well, bad. I didn't like it, it felt generic, it was badly formated and it lacked a solid gameplan.

b) calling out rgSchworz because he didn't like your campaign either in a very agressive and condescending way. again, not even really scummy. just bad.

All in all yeah, I think you are one candidate to look out for. After this post even more. Although, and I repeat myself here, I don't even think you're scummy, but you seem scummy, because your posts lack quality.

What omgus are you speaking of? Try to get into my head as I am getting into his head. He is doing a typical scum-move, softdefend the townie, In itself it's not a scummy move. Scum loves to do this but townies do this to and that is not what I am reacting on. Here is the thing. Jay refered to my posts as bad. Which to anyone who looks at them could see they are clearly not bad. They are few but there isn't a single irrelevant/bad post in there. So why would anyone call them bad? Well they wouldn't. So why would Jay defend me without reading my filter. Well because he is scum and therefor know I am town and unluckily assumed that the reason I was looked at was a bad post. He was beeing uncarefull and made a scumslip. And Jay haven't accused me so how can It be omgus. Look at the mass contradictions in his followup post. "I wasn't accusing you, but this is omgus" and "I don't think you're scum but you're scummy" <--- WHAT?
He is also bringing up rgSchwors which makes no sense unless perhaps feels it's more pro-town to ignore attacks on you.
I was just arguing/discussion with rhSchwors when he attacked my candidacy which is the natural thing to do. He's just trying hard to make me look bad.
On January 15 2012 02:32 Mattchew wrote:
yay for risk.nuke and jayjay tunneling one another because they disagree


mattchew, he might be tunneling the me, but I am clearly not tunneling him with one post. Why on earth did you make a post like that for because it's purpose seemed to be to minimize, lessen and prevent discussion of this. Which seems incredibly biased.

If I'm elected I'll lynch Jay, I support BC for the election stronger then before because of jay's efforts against him.


I most certainly accused you. "He's def a candidate though" is what you call defending? Maybe you weren't as good of a lawyer.

And saying I'm scum is pretty much tunneling. And just because I think your posts are bad? Of course, you think they're good, but there may be differen opinions.

Finally, please format your posts a little better.

The formating of that post is fine, another attempts to make me look bad on irrelevant matters and it is a scummove because townies need to be unbiased and openminded, that is why tunneling is bad to begin with. Jay you are scum, you know it, I know it. But for you to help me convince my fellow town of this please let's discuss what matters. You may begin with pointing out which of my posts were bad.


oh boy. This is my last response to you. Our little feud is getting town nowhere.

Here you go with bad posts:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=76576&user=76576
Campaign, generic horrible structured, lack of game plan.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=29#573
Condescending one liner, no content to discuss. random spam

oh and most recently:

On January 15 2012 02:17 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
He made some bad posts and then disappears, agree. It's odd, but some people have to do stuff on the weekend. He's def a candidate though - Jay

I just realised this. Look at my posthistory and tell me if you would describe it as "I made some bad posts".
SCUM for softdefending me without seeing my filter.


Didn't even read a single line. I say you are def a lynch candidate and you respond that I scummishly softdefending? If you quote a single line, please read it properly. It's funny that I'm not even on BCs scum list, even though I made a lot of points against him. That's because I put a lot of effort into a lot of posts which try to help town.

other than that formating does actually matter. Because a good post is well structured and not a single wall of text. I'm not trying to make you look bad, your posts do by itself. You fail to add content, you don't read posts properly and your posting style is not good either.

so there's that, if you answer, be warned, I won't answer, because I'm done with you, not in a OMGUS way, but a do whatever you want way. BC I'll answer you later on, have to think about it.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 19:01 GMT
#1123
Oh and that I've been promoting Mattchew a lot, should stand by itself. Not exactly a good scum move.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 19:11 GMT
#1129
ok whatever here I go.

Look at this little post made by yours truely (there are more in my filter):

On January 14 2012 21:45 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hi friends! Up and awake. Spending my time at a Starbucks in order to stay on track. Sorry if I cover older posts in my analysis, I was asleep.
Topics to discuss:
A) Mattchew
Let’s analyze his post.
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote:

I am running for Mayor.


I believe you should vote for me because I am confirmed town. How? Let me explain.

I am a mason who used my first "masoning" on Foolishness. In the past I have proven not great at this game both as mafia and as town. I also have not been a good listener to scum team advice when it is given to me. So the odds of a scum team picking me to be their mason is slim to none.
Not really an argument. A variance of the usual “I suck at scum”. Nothing special.
Also, the fact that I pm'd arguably the best townie player in the game should prove in itself that I am town. I am not a vet or a well regarded player, why would any scum team even consider the thought of letting me either
a. (if foolishness is also scum) claim to PM one of their best players and spotlight him
or
b. (if foolishness is town) let me PM one of the best townies and maybe get myself caught.

This is logic.
This make sense. Why would mafia PM the best town player straight away? After he already started a campaign for BM. There is no real perspective for scum here. And the idea that both are scum is strange, too. The BM campaign wouldn’t make sense. There’s no chance that all 3 are scum.

Why should we vote you if you are bad?

A. I am confirmed town. This is by far the best reason to elect me.
Not really confirmed. But by logic he’s likely town.
B. I would become a roleblock immune, mason, with either 3 votes (mayor) or a jailing ability.
Masons can’t get roleblock! They have a day action. So B is not really an issue. The townish vibes make the difference here.
C. The fact that I am a mason allows me to solicit advice on my actions behind closed doors from veteran players. While I obviously will be extremely skeptical in everything they tell me, it is better than a Mayor acting purely on his own. I will not be manipulated because I will present the options and ask their opinions on them. I will not be asking broad questions, yet specific questions to leave little to no room for scum influence.
Makes sense to me. That is why the BC claim timing was so odd to me. He would have had a great chance to become mayor.

What is your stance on Mayoral Issues.

I will be active. I can read and respond while at work. Monday - Friday I should be on and reading from 13:30 GMT (+00:00) to 04:00 GMT (+00:00). Saturday and sunday I will be reading and responding while watching football but as the day progresses I will probably be getting more and more drunk, around 03:00 GMT (+00:00).

The standard obligatory "I suck at scum"

I currently am looking at 3 candidates for the day 1 lynch and will be open to discussion on all 3.
Those 3 are (in no particular order) Ciryandor, Mapco, Chaosquo is also good.
The mayor downside of his post . I agree with WBG here, these candidates suck. Would like to see Echelot or Palmar here. Mapco is a new player, you can clearly see it. So why lynch him.

I am now open for questions for the next half hour or so before company arrives at my house and I will be offline until 16:00 GMT (+00:00)


That being said, before he was roleclaiming, he already posted some really townish posts to back him up like this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#605
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#612
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=35#682
He is clearly applying logic to help town. Passionately fighting for the right townplay. Thinking ahead and providing opinions and information. I like this. A lot.
In the bigger picture, his playstyle alongside masoning foolishness doesn’t make sense as a scum play. The PM log seems consistent to other stuff they’ve been saying. E.g. foolishness attitude towards masons. It’s either well faked or real.
Foolishness would never suggest his mafia buddy BM if he were scum only to proceed and claim another scum buddy. That’s way too risky.
Therefore, I am convinced. And my townread clearly outweigh the disagreement in the lynch choices. So here it is:
##vote Mattchew

[/b]

It's Mattchew as you now know.

Ask yourself. Is that a scum post? Is it? Really? REALLY? Didn't think so.


So, if you are scared of ending up with a scum mayor. Vote Jayjay for mayor. That's right. I put myself out there. Not because I am experienced. But I got good reads, am active (probably one of the most active ones), look beautiful and I am not really a scum as I've shown!

Just giving my town friends another option.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 19:16 GMT
#1132
On January 15 2012 04:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
Jayjay you're pushing yourself on the premise of "I've got good reads because I...correctly called out a townie"

...

...


You know that scum know when someone's townie, right? Why don't you correctly call out someone as scum and THEN talk about how good your reads are. Seriously...


I did not say that because of my Mattchew read. That's not the point. I got confidence in my logic and in my game.

The real point is, that I am TOWN. And I think I did give proof for that.

People were already saying how bad it is to have a 25% chance of getting a scum mayor and that randomly giving it to somebody would be better because it's 20% then. Well guess what, I am 100% homegrown town and therefore a safe option.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 19:26 GMT
#1137
On January 15 2012 04:19 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:11 Jayjay54 wrote:
ok whatever here I go.

Look at this little post made by yours truely (there are more in my filter):

On January 14 2012 21:45 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hi friends! Up and awake. Spending my time at a Starbucks in order to stay on track. Sorry if I cover older posts in my analysis, I was asleep.
Topics to discuss:
A) Mattchew
Let’s analyze his post.
On January 14 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote:

I am running for Mayor.


I believe you should vote for me because I am confirmed town. How? Let me explain.

I am a mason who used my first "masoning" on Foolishness. In the past I have proven not great at this game both as mafia and as town. I also have not been a good listener to scum team advice when it is given to me. So the odds of a scum team picking me to be their mason is slim to none.
Not really an argument. A variance of the usual “I suck at scum”. Nothing special.
Also, the fact that I pm'd arguably the best townie player in the game should prove in itself that I am town. I am not a vet or a well regarded player, why would any scum team even consider the thought of letting me either
a. (if foolishness is also scum) claim to PM one of their best players and spotlight him
or
b. (if foolishness is town) let me PM one of the best townies and maybe get myself caught.

This is logic.
This make sense. Why would mafia PM the best town player straight away? After he already started a campaign for BM. There is no real perspective for scum here. And the idea that both are scum is strange, too. The BM campaign wouldn’t make sense. There’s no chance that all 3 are scum.

Why should we vote you if you are bad?

A. I am confirmed town. This is by far the best reason to elect me.
Not really confirmed. But by logic he’s likely town.
B. I would become a roleblock immune, mason, with either 3 votes (mayor) or a jailing ability.
Masons can’t get roleblock! They have a day action. So B is not really an issue. The townish vibes make the difference here.
C. The fact that I am a mason allows me to solicit advice on my actions behind closed doors from veteran players. While I obviously will be extremely skeptical in everything they tell me, it is better than a Mayor acting purely on his own. I will not be manipulated because I will present the options and ask their opinions on them. I will not be asking broad questions, yet specific questions to leave little to no room for scum influence.
Makes sense to me. That is why the BC claim timing was so odd to me. He would have had a great chance to become mayor.

What is your stance on Mayoral Issues.

I will be active. I can read and respond while at work. Monday - Friday I should be on and reading from 13:30 GMT (+00:00) to 04:00 GMT (+00:00). Saturday and sunday I will be reading and responding while watching football but as the day progresses I will probably be getting more and more drunk, around 03:00 GMT (+00:00).

The standard obligatory "I suck at scum"

I currently am looking at 3 candidates for the day 1 lynch and will be open to discussion on all 3.
Those 3 are (in no particular order) Ciryandor, Mapco, Chaosquo is also good.
The mayor downside of his post . I agree with WBG here, these candidates suck. Would like to see Echelot or Palmar here. Mapco is a new player, you can clearly see it. So why lynch him.

I am now open for questions for the next half hour or so before company arrives at my house and I will be offline until 16:00 GMT (+00:00)


That being said, before he was roleclaiming, he already posted some really townish posts to back him up like this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#605
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#612
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=35#682
He is clearly applying logic to help town. Passionately fighting for the right townplay. Thinking ahead and providing opinions and information. I like this. A lot.
In the bigger picture, his playstyle alongside masoning foolishness doesn’t make sense as a scum play. The PM log seems consistent to other stuff they’ve been saying. E.g. foolishness attitude towards masons. It’s either well faked or real.
Foolishness would never suggest his mafia buddy BM if he were scum only to proceed and claim another scum buddy. That’s way too risky.
Therefore, I am convinced. And my townread clearly outweigh the disagreement in the lynch choices. So here it is:
##vote Mattchew



It's Mattchew as you now know.

Ask yourself. Is that a scum post? Is it? Really? REALLY? Didn't think so.


So, if you are scared of ending up with a scum mayor. Vote Jayjay for mayor. That's right. I put myself out there. Not because I am experienced. But I got good reads, am active (probably one of the most active ones), look beautiful and I am not really a scum as I've shown!

Just giving my town friends another option.

Mattchew seemed to be easy to control for the brief time he was here. I could theoretically have seen voting for him as scum agenda. Not only that, you're attempting to take town cred from the flip, and use it as the sole basis to start an entirely new wagon?
[/b]

Yes I do take town cred for that! If I would've been scum, why would I push so hardly for a town mayor? To gamble that I can control him? Why not push for a scum mayor? To gamble that the one I push for gets modkilled?

You look at the post and you seriously have doubt that I am town? You ask yourself, if my posts make sense as scum and answer with yes? Ok I guess I have to live with that. I hope most people see it as what it is. Post that show that I am town.

I don't want to start a new wagon (is there even one right now, I just see people randomly voting). I'm just saying, if the risk is really high to get a scum mayor, it might be better to get a townie.

Even if I don't get mayor, I think it's good for townies to know how incredebly towny I am.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 19:34 GMT
#1141
On January 15 2012 04:30 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:16 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
Jayjay you're pushing yourself on the premise of "I've got good reads because I...correctly called out a townie"

...

...


You know that scum know when someone's townie, right? Why don't you correctly call out someone as scum and THEN talk about how good your reads are. Seriously...


I did not say that because of my Mattchew read. That's not the point. I got confidence in my logic and in my game.

The real point is, that I am TOWN. And I think I did give proof for that.

People were already saying how bad it is to have a 25% chance of getting a scum mayor and that randomly giving it to somebody would be better because it's 20% then. Well guess what, I am 100% homegrown town and therefore a safe option.


here's the point:
1) I don't like talking about that math bullshit. That's all talk about "what would happen if we make a true rnd vote". That's not going to happen. Never ever. Fine with me mentioning but I don't think we need it right now

2) I think you're town but I don't want you to be mayor because I don't thnk you're up to it. I don't go for mayor myself although I said mattchew is a townie and ended up being right because that call was easy as it can get.

3) I'll say it once more: I think you're townie, but you running for mayor is not going to help town right now. Not at all.


That's a fine opinion. I am pretty sure that I won't get mayor. Still, I think I would be a decent one. And I am 100% better than a scum mayor. I tell you that

I already stated, I want to be "another option", before town ends up with scum. So if there's doubt that scum is riding a bandwagon or total confusion, I might be the way to go.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 19:50 GMT
#1149
On January 15 2012 04:36 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
and re. I'll be voting BM right now. d1 (like RL-d1) I thought it's the most horrible thing possible but he gives me townvibes.
There's no way I will vote for sandro, bc or bum because I think either 1 or 2 out of them is scum and the mafia out of those is trying to screw with me / us.
I just don't want to vote into that triangle of I-don't-know.

wbg would be an alternative but I've got more of an stubborn-palmar read than a useless-palmar read and I'd like to lynch someone else d1. If possible someone who's not a vet and leave palmar for d2.

Wiggles and kita didn't say a lot lately so although I (somehow) got a townfeeling out of that much nothing I'd much rather vote someone else.
Mattchew and VE a re both town but I'd rather have someone else in that position imo.
Oh and everyone who got no mention either is hard to judge for me or is not worth a mention. Deal with it :p

Still catching up. I'm reading the last 2 pages, I'm eating and I will post a little bit more if needed.

I'll take that as me being too awesome for your judgement or something.

I'd like to hear from Foolishness now.
What made it seem like a good idea to make Mattchew run for mayor, over equally active people she had more history with? Why is she interested in controlling Bill Murray?

actually yeah. I have no idea what you're up to at this point in time. I'm going to quote from my sheet:
7. Cyber_Cheese
I haven o idea
no idea at all

I tried several times to get something about you going but I never was able to put something into words. You're like THE nullread I have in this game and I don't know why I have so much trouble to figure you out. Want to to me a faver and tell me real fast who you want to lynch and who's the best mayor in your opinion (other than yourself) ?
I don't really want to read your filter again right now

Mayor, I honestly have no idea. I was pretty close to going for Mattchew after he explained how he got to choosing Foolishness. I suppose BC doesn't seem like the bad choice people make him out to be, I feel like he's explained his plan enough.
Lynch... Probably VisceraEyes or Risk.Nuke, for starting a mayorial campaign and giving up on it.

To clarify the lynch. I want the scummiest person who ran for mayor. I'm just not sure who that is at the moment.
Sandroba seems like a decent option.


so that's sandroba for lynch, VE for lynch or risk nuke for lynch and BC for mayor?
Or was sandroba another viable option for mayor for you?


I actually like the lynch the mayor candidate plan. But I really think that scum would bet on their best horse. So if there's one scum mayor candidate, it would be a well established player IMO. That leaves us with?

BC? Sandro?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 19:57 GMT
#1155
wait what? our best role has just been claimed? really?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:00 GMT
#1160
On January 15 2012 04:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
One of, Jayjay. One of.


where does it say jacks can day shoot?


Jack
You can act as a Medic, Veteran, Mason, and Vigilante... but not all at once and not more than once. You may use two of these four powers during the game: Protect, Mason, and Shoot. You may use the same power twice. Note that your Veteran life is not passive like that of a true Veteran's; you must choose when to activate it, and if it isn't used (as in, you aren't hit that night) it goes away.

well it doesn't say, that they can't. just "during the game"
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:03 GMT
#1164
On January 15 2012 05:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:00 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
One of, Jayjay. One of.


where does it say jacks can day shoot?


Jack
You can act as a Medic, Veteran, Mason, and Vigilante... but not all at once and not more than once. You may use two of these four powers during the game: Protect, Mason, and Shoot. You may use the same power twice. Note that your Veteran life is not passive like that of a true Veteran's; you must choose when to activate it, and if it isn't used (as in, you aren't hit that night) it goes away.

well it doesn't say, that they can't. just "during the game"


true, but wouldn't the jack be limited to the vig restraints? which only let them shoot during the night?


hmm. the power says "shoot" and it's applicable two times per game. so I guess not. VE you asked beforehand didn't you?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:08 GMT
#1169
so. does CC die now? :D
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:11 GMT
#1173
and this daykill is based on you first supporting VE and then calling him a lynch candidate?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1184
wait what now? I don't get it. WHAT? so you claim a role which exits for both teams. and you shoot CC on the first day based on him contradicting himself and a few maybe softtells? and you think that's a smart play?

then you go ahead and vote for someone who wanted to lynch CC a while back
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:28 GMT
#1193
On January 15 2012 05:25 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?


don't, under any circumstances talk about this or answer what L is asking you. Let them wifom about if you really are a vig and be happy with that.


do you think L is being stupid or scum?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 21:10 GMT
#1221
@BC+ Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2012 03:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 03:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
How does the fact that I pulled out of the elections make me more suspicious?

And did you completely ignore my plea for help regarding my mason situation? Or do you not care because now I'm suspicious?


You as a former candidate go out of your way to encourage people to withdraw votes based on a lie. You can say you misread my post which potentially believable due to its length I find unlikely. If people were actively waiting for a piece of information then my large posts theoretically should be read carefully for said information. You are not like jay who has been on my nuts all game.

Had you chosen to encourage people to not vote for me as I claimed mason and had solid reasons behind it then I would see you as more townlike, as it would also be discrediting another player with the same claim. By opting to instead cherry pick one candidate over the other I see an inconsistancy. I say this as you made mention before in thread that you had reservations of electing me before as my alignment with my role was not provable (minus a lynching obviously), however this issue would be near identical to another mason and had you kept with that line of thinking as two masons were in the running I would have understood.

Singling me out however, via incorrect information, is why you are on my list.


sup?

first of all, I want to say sorry for saying the unvote thing. Regardless of what my read is of you, people should've unvoted you, if you didn't name your mason buddy. Which you did and therefore my statement was wront. I missed it, sorry! But it was well hidden. Normally such an anouncement is bold and on top of a post. But I guess, you have your reasons.

Then, I was not on your nuts all game long. In the beginning, I actually was your biggest stan and saying your campaign is the best. Enter your roleclaim. As I stated like a billion times the motives behind it is still unclear to me.

If you can describe me the upsides of your roleclaim, I will not think of you as scum again. Even more so, If you convince me your really town favoured, I will vote you again, since your campaign was the best and you're a good player.

But since you kind of just nourished the discussion, but never thematized the timing of the roleclaim, you're scummy to me.

The Hydra's case on you is pretty good IMO and is in line of what I believe.

I try to be constructive, not just choose a player and piss him off.


Using the phrase "has been on my nuts all game" is more or less accurate. You are really the only person who has been against me for a decent period of time. You also have said your reasons why. Do i agree with them? No. I do understand them however. If you compare what you were doing to what VE did you would understand why he is on a radar now and you are currently not.

However, as for the upsides of my claim. Look at the specific post Incog (the hydra) quoted of mine from my town analysis thread that I believe i linked in a previous post. (if i didnt i can dig it up, its also somewhere on page 4-6 i believe of the mafia forum).

I stress that most people don't use pm's correctly. In a situation where only a few specific players have access to that domain, it gives the mafia an advantage. They will have 10 people able to work on manipulating a player. You can say "i am going to look for manipulation so it won't happen" but again. Ask what I did to VE. It was subtle and vile. All I did was plant an idea that I knew he would think on and run with, and he did it in a way I knew he would. Manipulation is not obvious and a good player will know exactly how to do it without being caught. Mafia will have 10 people making sure its done right. I know that I can freely romp in pm land, but no smart mafia is going to talk to me seriously if i mason them. Why? Because i could do to them what they would do to another player. As such I had to think. How likely is it that only top players got the mason role?

Unlikely as fw rng's roles. We are also a gimped mason as we lose contact with who we target after each cycle and can never use it on them again. This is inherently not helpful to town. Why? Because a townie benefits from bouncing ideas off one another in pms. However you need the time to build up a "trust" of sorts with the person to actually get a serious discussion on reads. People will naturally always suspect you at first when mason'd or at least they should. That is not alot of time to get by the distrust and have a discussion of who x and y think is scum. Then you have to go over all those pms and see if there is a hidden agenda there. PM's in the way we traditionally use them to "bounce ideas" or find scum are used over long periods of time with people mulling over information. As your ability to get reads is so short term they are unreliable and far more useful to manipulate or mislead which takes far less effort, and is doable in a much faster span of time.

As such I opted to want to discuss the role. However, I also knew that based on my decision to heavily push this point, I would be forced to claim my role as there would be no way I would be able to hide that fact for the game while pushing heavy on its discussion. Even if I could, it could lead masons to out and out claim and would look extremely bad if I didn't while essentially outing people in thread.

As such I did right from the get go.




I guess we're running in circles here. I've completely understand why you think masons are worse on a random town role. Especially, while having elected scum masons. Maybe, you read that in nearly all of my posts I 100% agree with you on that part. No arguements whatsoever here.

I just question the roleclaim decision, because I think that you could've become mayor and while doing that connecting your campaign with that discussion, you're strong enough player that you actually could have pushed for it. Also, why not discuss it at night.

Whatever. I still don't trust you...but again no need to answer here, no need to further discuss it.

Right now. I still don't know who to vote for. Hydra has not been very vocal and I feel thats not good...

BM hasn't been either. Just for a brief period of time...

Meapak, who are you gonna lynch?

Still, th
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 21:21 GMT
#1236
On January 15 2012 06:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 06:11 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 15 2012 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, the answer: Vote VE for Mayor!

Wait did he just say.....

YES!

VE has retardedly outted himself as a Town Jack by trying to daykill C_C. What an idiot, right? But hear me out.

My case on CC is this: He's scummily inconsistent in his posting.

Like take this post for example. He states in no uncertain terms that A) he's not going to vote for BC and also B) Palmar must be scum based on Occam's Razor.

In this post he encourages me to stay in the mayoral race because he's voting for me.

Here, he goes a step further and changes his lynch choice to BC.

Wait a minute...he already said he agreed with the case on Palmar...Occam's Razor remember?

In this post, he tries to shirk responsibility for Macpo's stance on BC (Macpo very clearly cites CC for changing his view on BC) by claiming it was actually Hydractinum that his post was based on. As town, I'd be flattered if one of my posts changed someone's mind, I certainly wouldn't try to say it was SOMEONE ELSE who actually did the legwork...especially if I'm seeking election!

Okay, here's the post. In this post, he not only reverses his stance on BC, but he does so by saying "BC isn't as bad a candidate as everyone is making him out to be." Really? You've been one of his biggest detractors! Your campaign is based on LYNCHING BC! Interestingly, he also puts me on a lynch list....WHILE HIS VOTE FOR MAYOR IS STILL ON ME!!! This is so fucking damning guys.

Now his vote is on BC.

Now, I'm going to probably be roleblocked and killed tonight...we can avoid this by making me one of the elected officials.

If I'm elected mayor, I'll lynch the fuck out of C_C.

A Vote For VisceraEyes Is A Vote For Town Victory!!!!


I've been thinking you're town all game long but since you fakeclaimed (it was a fake claim right?) I'm not sure anymore


No it was a real claim...I idiotically thought my Vig power was a DayVig power and tried to kill C_C with it.


this kinda feels like the echelot "-town" incident (where is he anyways? he still ows me an explanation?)

either this was a very very very stupid mistake or you claimed "by accident" to become mayor. I tend to the second option. Feels off.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 21:38 GMT
#1252
I too think WBG is a good choice for sheriff. ##WBG (might change)
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 21:45 GMT
#1257
On January 15 2012 06:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 06:31 Palmar wrote:
On January 15 2012 06:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
I herped HARD.


Business as usual.


I'll take your being a jerk to me to be indicative of your alignment, since you're not providing anything else for me to base it on. What do you think of my case on CC?


What case? There's hardly any case. This is almost OMGUS. You were BFF and then he called you lynch candidate, all of a sudden you're like, DAYKILL. I didn't really get it.

Or did I miss something.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 21:58 GMT
#1269
On January 15 2012 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 06:45 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 06:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 15 2012 06:31 Palmar wrote:
On January 15 2012 06:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
I herped HARD.


Business as usual.


I'll take your being a jerk to me to be indicative of your alignment, since you're not providing anything else for me to base it on. What do you think of my case on CC?


What case? There's hardly any case. This is almost OMGUS. You were BFF and then he called you lynch candidate, all of a sudden you're like, DAYKILL. I didn't really get it.

Or did I miss something.


We were never BFF...he attempted to buddy me by telling me not to drop out of the race. Did you read my case? Do you disagree with my points? Now he's trying to discredit my case, not by refuting the points but by calling me an idiot and acting incredulous about my reinserting myself into the mayoral race.

If you disagree with the case that's fine, but don't call it OMGUS...that's very NOT the case.


I did read your case, he makes minor contradictions, granted. But enough to justify a daykill? I hardly think so.

Also, I am like 95% sure that you wouldn't have made that case if he didn't call you lynch candidate. Which makes it an OMGUS. Sorry. But that is how I see it.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 22:09 GMT
#1283
On January 15 2012 07:02 Jitsu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 06:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Holy shit could people stop blue claiming? If you are blue I don't care if you think you should claim. You shouldn't and if you do you're retarded.

Moving on, I am still running for mayor and I will not be withdrawing because aside from BC I do not like any of the current candidates. My lynch would be GGQ.

Foolishness in your last post you said you had done an analysis on someone. Please refresh my memory who this was.

Also wtf is up with the triple vote on WBG? That look suspicious as hell and I'm not going near that with a 10 foot pole.



Wasn't WBG pretty anti-Palmar in anyway and wanted him dead?
Than as Palmar starts posting, the votes for WBG blow up.

10 foot pole indeed.



I don't want to be all like WIFOM, but don't you think if this was a planned scum action, it could have been made differently. I mean, I agree that looked suspicious as fuck. If I was scum, I'd definitely avoid that. but yeah WIFOM.

I can only speak on my behalf. As I already stated, I didn't really know where to put my vote, since my favorite was modkilled. So I needed an alternative. WBG as a sheriff seemed like a good proposal. I looked through his filter one more time and voted. I followed Wiggles. That I ended up ninjaing was bad luck.

If you don't believe my story, I invite you to look at my filter, I think, you'll find decent arguements for my allignment, imo. Also, my actions should speak for themselves.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 22:24 GMT
#1295
On January 15 2012 07:18 Toadesstern wrote:
also because someone mentioned it (think jayjay) if VE WOULD be a dayvig, shooting CC would be an awesome move.

This election is hard because we don't have flips and there's a lot of possibilities. I think sandro is pretty scumm atm for example. However, I'd like to see some flips that are in some way related to him or see himself flip to back that up.
If I got a flip that somehow tells me I am wrong about sandroba that'd be a huge deal.

Shooting d1 is dangerous but in this situation very much a good thing for town because of information gain imo.


(ignore this if your post was sarcasm)

I most certainly did not This is a horrible move. Seriously. And announcing to do so and roleclaim even more. I stated several times that I don't get what the situation and the motives behind that was.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 22:28 GMT
#1302
guys casual is fine, but this is getting spammy.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 23:25 GMT
#1320
On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?


this post is why, I wouldn't vote L.

He is experienced. So why on earth would he suggest to tell everyone who is going to shoot when? That's a bad move.

BM is an okay choice imo.

26/50 voted, deadline in 3 h 40 mins. Everyone who doesn't vote gets modkilled right?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 23:50 GMT
#1328
Dearest Hydra, u up for some Q&A? I still am not convinced of my vote and also not conviced by BMs whole roleclaim party. If you would be so kind and answer the red stuff in your quote and the questions below your quote convincingly, I'll probably switch. And you might get other votes by explaining yourself, too.

On January 15 2012 08:29 Protactinium wrote:
Quite a few people have voiced concerns that I have not been active enough or have not provided a "gameplan". Well as Wiggles said, everyone's "gameplan" for mayor is pretty much the same and you can make however many empty promises you want. Obviously, I have been scumhunting. That's not going to change. While it may make you nervous or uncomfortable when other people are outposting me by miles, you can guarantee that when I post, I post meaningful content. Other than Foolishness's argument against Macpo (which I agree with btw), I have been the only one who has really been focused on finding the mafia. My posts speak for themselves, and

Don't you think a mayor should be a discussionleader. You clearly lack posts. They are well thought-out, but there are only a few. Would you increase your posting frequency as town?

Some clarifications about my BC analysis:

While yes, I did state that BC's opinions here are inconsistent with his out of game comments, this is not the foundation of my argument, they are just icing on the cake.

Show nested quote +
I am glad your third game post of the thread is once again a "i am running on the campaign of lynch this player" it gives nothing on yourself and yet people think you are doing something commendable. You ignore all game discussion and opt to push your own agenda to off players. I am impressed good sir. However, you fail to realize that I am not being the lazy bored me, I am actually playing.


Does the fact that I am saying "I am running on the campaign of lynching this player" really say nothing about myself, as BC so claims? No, in fact, it gives you a lot about me. It tells you that I am a no nonsense player who will get straight to the point without cluttering my posts with irrelevant details. It tells you that I am serious about finding mafia and have no interest in spreading confusion and spam in the thread. And you'll notice that I don't only say "I want to lynch X", I actually give reasons for wanting to do so. BC is trying to misrepresent me and trying to convince you that I have done nothing for the town, which is clearly false. Notice how even at this point he still hasn't commented on my case on Ciryandor.

BC lies about me ignoring his game discussion. In fact, I devote the first 3 paragraphs of my post just to address the little drama BC has created. I say that his discussion is an irrelevant and unsolvable one that will get us nowhere, while stating my opinion that PMs favor good players and aren't really that scary for town if used properly. That's really all that needs to be said. Yet instead, BC has taken the mason subject and expanded over many pages of the thread, conveniently trashing it and derailing the important discussion of who the mafia is.

Look at the bolded section. Pushing my agenda to off players? BC tries to make me look like some bloodthirsty/trigger happy mafia. Guess what: The town's agenda is to kill the mafia!. So yes, my agenda is to kill mafia. That is much different from wanting to "off players". BC is inflating the importance of his "discussion"'s contribution to the town's agenda and is trying to marginalize my attempts to scumhunt, which really should be the town's priority.

The italicized portion is irrelevant. I do not fail to consider that you are playing the game instead of being bored, since in fact, boredom is more a characteristic of your town play, not your mafia play.

So in this little paragraph, what has BC actually done? He has attempted to discredit me by ignoring all my contributions, inflated the importance of his own contributions to the thread, and attempted to paint me as a trigger happy lunatic. Misrepresentation at its finest, and something that strongly indicates a mafia. I could go on and on to detail more paragraphs, but this should be sufficient.

Show nested quote +
Notice the bolded section near the top, you know, the amazing tool if used properly? How about we continue reading to where i state it is not used properly and mafia abuse it to win.


This is a joke. He does not state that it is not used properly, he says that IF it is not used properly, mafia can abuse it to win. If you read BC's PM stance, it is quite moderate and reasonable. Use PMs if you are comfortable in using them properly, ignore them if you don't. In this game? "Ahhhh ignore PMs like the plaguuuuuu! They are so evil!!"

I still am on BCs side concerning the mason topic. Don't you think elected mafia masons can do a lot of damage? Quick answer to prevent further discussions please.

Show nested quote +
I do appreciate that you are gunning for people, but you know just as well as I do that masons who are only able to talk to 1 person once over 1 day cycle when unexperienced in that field is a detriment to the town, not a positive. If you refuse to admit to this then we both know your scum alignment.


Its not as simple as that. Say, as town I am able to PM with an inexperienced mafia. That is a positive, not a detriment. BC is taking the case where inexperienced townies get into PMs with mafia and get burned, ignoring the case where a capable PM practitioner is able to leverage PMs for an advantage. BC creates an ultimatum where I am branded as mafia if I do not accept his rather skewed and overly-general statement that does not acknowledge the complexity of the PM issue.

Show nested quote +
What I also find amusing is you concentrate on my mafia style play but ignore my town style play which is near identical (as you well know) where the differences are pushing mafia or town objectives.


Bored BC is usually townie BC. But in the case that he is playing seriously as town, a simple check on two separate games with BC as town shows that his style is much different from this game.
TL Mafia XX
PYP3

In TL Mafia XX, BC proposes a plan, answers questions about it, but is rather straightforward and decisive with what he wants to do. He even roleclaims before the end of the election. But what is different this time? He clearly gives an outline of how his claim was a move to get votes, and in the next post to gauge reactions. He doesn't stir the pot by saying "hey lets get a discussion going", he just states his opinions, and scumhunts. Keeps most of his opinions to himself when they aren't necessary, but otherwise its pretty clear he isn't trying to stir things up chaos here.

In PYP3, BC doesn't do nonsense. He has almost all analytical posts (about setup/the drafting situation first, then followed by attacks on LSB), and again isn't posting "to stir up discussion".

BC's town behavior in these two games completely contrasts with this game. He heavily overemphasizes "lets get discussion going", never gives any indication that he wants to find mafia until he counter-attacks me in his defense against my accusation, and has many contradictions in his posts. Even in the above quote, BC says the differences are when he is pushing a mafia or town objective. Where is he pushing the town objective??? BC does no scumhunting, and is content to litter the thread with nonsense while attempting to marginalize my contributions.

So no. Unlike what BC wants to make you think, my case is NOT based primarily on out of game connections. Those are simply bonuses.

A quick look at BC's posts show that:

He does not display any attempt to find mafia, despite his original campaign promise that "I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like.".
He has overemphasized creating discussion on masons and manipulated the course of this discussion while derailing from the town objective to find mafia.
As shown in the first section of this post, BC deliberately misinterprets my post and attempts to discredit me by painting me as a triggerhappy who just wants to off people.

Lets be honest here. Look at my posts, and look at BC's posts. Which is more important, BC's mason discussion, or my who is mafia discussion? If one of us is really trying to derail the discussion, who is it???

BC is mafia. I am shocked that so many people are still voting for him, though I suppose its natural, since mafia candidates never are lacking in votes.


well, I ended up asking a lot less than I thought I had to. I can see most of your calls.

other than that:
if you couldn't lynch BC, who was your second and third choice?

What do you think of L's question who is gonna be shot?

How do you feel about VEs claim?

Thanks man
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 23:52 GMT
#1331
On January 15 2012 08:50 risk.nuke wrote:
Protactinium, why have you waited untill now to voice your concerns? BC have been the leading election since day 1, it is now 4 hours till deadline and most of europe is asleep.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=44#870

you continue to underperform.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 00:01 GMT
#1334
On January 15 2012 08:55 Toadesstern wrote:
you people need to realize that we need to get 2 or 3 people high on votes. We want to make it as hard as possible for mafia to screw this poll. If we end up having a lot of people who have 4 votes mafia can EASILY rig this election. So please, if you don't think the guy you're voting for has a fair chance at winning this election please try and conside voting someone else.
Sure that's a bad thing because from your point of view guy X is way better than guy Y, so why risk getting guy X into office when Y is way better.
However, if your vote turns out to be useless that's a vote that's helping scum because they need less people to rig this.


Right now there's BC with 8 and BM with 7. so right now there's two up there. I still have a scumread on BC that's why I reconsider. WBG has 4 and Hydra 3. If I switch it's the other way round. So those guys still have a chance...

On a different note, I don't like the L bandwagon at all. It's scary.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 00:27 GMT
#1340
On January 15 2012 09:13 Macpo wrote:
I haven't been able to post my scum tells last post, here they are.
Basically, I think we kind of neglect all these players, who are basically hiding. I am not saying this 100% scums; some of them are probably really not here. but I also think it's more than 20% scum in there, we should keep this in mind:

- Refallen 2 empty posts.
- Munk-E 1 empty post.
- Brownbear 4 posts, 4lines.
- d3_crescentia 3 posts 3 lines.
- igabod 4 posts 4 lines.
- rtgICEMAN 4 posts, and no clear position.
- Maxella 2 posts.

Please guys, really get into it and help town; as now you are just very embarrassingly hiding. Until you convincingly do, you are all my favorite scums tells.
Also, while going through the filters, I saw the remarkable case of Jayjay, one poster, 10%of the whole thread. and to be honest, only crap in it; far from any rational standard . This annoys me, so I put him on my scummy list. We really need to have more rational stuff to clarify things. like REALLY.



I think, if you read my filter, you'll find some pretty good cases (at least I put some effort into them). Could you please point out, where I derail or say "crap below rational standard"? Thanks.

too bad, there's no answer from hydra. I'll probably switch anyways, because I don't trust BC.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 11:36 GMT
#1545
Good morning town, here my update post.
1) WBG. His “not entirely based on meta” campaign was actually fine to me. I did not really like his reasoning behind it, but it seemed reasonable enough to assume he is town.
That is why, I wanted to see him as a Sheriff (read: not Mayor, but Sheriff). He got my vote after Wiggles proposal, during the unfortunate coincidence that got VE and me on the suspicious list
But right when I went to sleep, he got out of hand and suddenly pushed for it like a madmen. That was really strange. His read on Palmar was weak and the case he made had not real arguments. Even though he says the opposite. All in all, the extreme pushing not the case itself made it look suspicious.
2) Supersoft. Looked like WBGs sidekick in the last pages. Just pushing Palmar’s lynch. They were like one in a piece. This is the first time two people in this thread combine their power so hard to achieve something. Could be scum support, could be that he was convinced or they even might be masoning.

=> At least one of them might be scum.

3) BC. How the fuck did he end up being mayor. Let’s look at his last minute votes.
3 mins to dealine: Supersoft.
2 mins to deadline: WBG
1 mins to deadline: VE
All of these votes where generated by the last minute switch to Palmar as lynch candidate. He looked as if he would just seize the opportunity to harvest some votes. Really weak opinion and taking his own responsibility out of the equation, because he wasn’t the one who pushed for Palmar.
I still don’t like his play. Will keep a close eye on him. However, since he’s mayor now, I’ll probably slow down with my accusations here. We need a strong mayor and I sincerely hope that BC is town and doesn’t let weak ass cases influence his opinion last minute.
4) VE: WEEEEEEAK OMGUS case on CC. He NEVER would have made that case, if CC didn’t mention him as a lynch candidate. That was just pure overreaction. Enough to justify a daykill? Based on a little inconsistent posting and change of opinion. If that is a justification BC and Hydra are the next vig candidates. Yay for chaos.
He then goes on to take this case to “accidentally” roleclaim. Only to afterwards say, “well actually I couldn’t daykill, but make me mayor so I can lynch CC. Look at my case.” That was really stupid. Independent on alignment.
He even continues to push for his case during the selection. Which is fine. But to defend a rather weak case which such passion is strange. Kinda similar to WBG and Supersoft. Who he joined later on in a last minute vote based on another weak case.
That is why VE is a player to watch out for.
5) Hydra Talks a billion times about why to lynch BC, makes a good case. Gets my vote, I go to sleep and he switches to Macpo? Nice. That doesn’t exactly convey trust. I don’t like it.
6) However, Macpo probably isn’t that bad of a choice. He might be a newb excusing himself, but I too get scummish vibes from the way he posts. No real reasoning behind anything, posting lists. Either Noob or Scum. This is why I probably would have supported Hydra here.

7) L: Still haven’t forgotten the fact the he asked our vig who to shoot and I don’t want anyone to forget about it. He did provide one post on that topic:
On January 15 2012 06:13 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:24 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:16 L wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:14 Toadesstern wrote:
so VE you thought you're a dayvig and in reality you're not? Wtf is going on with this town people. Mass claims, mass fails, blues being modkilled, blue outing they vig-power and bc managed to get town discussing a whole day about pussy-masons.
The only thing that could go worse would be Palmar stepping into this thread, threatening X to do Y or else he will dayvig him and X ends up dayvigging Z.
Srsly guys wtf is wrong with you tonight

Hi there!

If you'd like to post in the thread, feel free to add content rather than remarking that things are bad. Watch what I do, okay?

VE, Are you going to shoot CC tonight?

See? Content!



awesome. Let the guy who just claimed vig now claim who he is about to shoot so that mafia does not even have to wifom about if he's going to shoot or not but only has to wifom about VE really is "smart" enough to pull a drazerk on us or not.

I mean you just asked a vig (if that's right) who he is about to shoot. I'll repeat it: You are asking a vig who he is about to shoot

wtf is going on.

Someone just made a claim to the strongest town role in the thread. He has multiple avenues to confirm his role if he's not lying.

No shit I'm going to ask him if he's going to shoot THE PERSON HE ALREADY TRIED TO SHOOT.

That is one weak explanation. This action is nowhere near town. Seriously. Why would you? If you want to confirm a role, the shot has to be posted right at the deadline or even a few minutes afterwards.
This was either puuuuure stupidity. Or actually a scumslip.
Also if you want to look http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=66
You can see a small bandwagon of possible L voters in three posts. Really Opz, Jitsu and Supersoft are indeed not on my green townie town list right now. Might be coincidence and I probably would have ignored it, if the persons joining the L train would be different.
8) Risk.Nuke. I don’t want to boil up this whole feud again, but the fact that he was a mayoral candidate might justify a further look. Since, I am probably biased, I won’t do it. Would be glad if someone else did.
9) Echelot. Still don’t like his explanation for –town. But that’s not enough to call him Scum. And I like his last posts.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 13:16 GMT
#1550
On January 15 2012 22:00 Kurumi wrote:
I fucking regret voting Protact.

why is that
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 13:48 GMT
#1555
On January 15 2012 22:38 Adam4167 wrote:
These:
VisceraEyes
Ciryandor
BloodyC0bbler
Protactinium
L
WBG

Ive covered most of the reasons why in my last post. L id just really like to see more of before he gets a 'townie' brand, since hes got a reputation as a great scum player.


Adam, if you continue to copy all of my opinions, we might become BFFs

These players are precisely who I don't agree with either.

Your post makes sense too. Good work IMO
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 14:01 GMT
#1558
On January 15 2012 22:55 Adam4167 wrote:
Thanks.

To be honest I combed your filter for close to 45 minutes trying to figure you out. Your excessive attention towards EchelonTee had me wondering if you were trying to exaggerate something small into something huge. Nothing jumped out at me though.


I didn't really have an excessive attitude against him. I just pushed for an explanation (which I still didn't really got) in order to figure him out. He didn't post at that time. Recently, he posted a little more and I said in my last post that he starts making sense and this actually might have been an error.

The only one I was really aggressive towards was BC. Which is why I voted for the hydra.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 16:31 GMT
#1571
On January 16 2012 01:23 rtgICEMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 01:22 rgTheSchworz wrote:
Try to get into my head as I am getting into his head. He is doing a typical scum-move, softdefend the townie, In itself it's not a scummy move

SO he's doing a scum-move thats not a scummy move?
Omg, i sense contradiction

LOL


the funny fart here, is not even the self contradection, but that I didn't softdefend him whatsoever. I called him a lynch candidate

but that just shows that he didn't really think that through at all.

I'm still leaning towards bad town player instead of scum.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 16:32 GMT
#1572
and by fart I mean part nice typo though
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 17:07 GMT
#1583
On January 16 2012 01:52 Toadesstern wrote:
btw I'm not convinced risk.nuke is mafia at all :p

I'd gladly lynch scumdroba or bum. I think sandroba is more scummy however I am a little afraid that we might end up lynching a townie because BC might be a mafia too. If BC's a mafia I don' think sandroba is mafia.
Conclusion: I want to lynch sandroba. I'd rather not risk lynching BC so early and lynching sandroba is way better information for us while giving pretty decent chance to hit a red mine


As I said, me neither. I think he's bad town and I don't want to push a lynch here.

Sandroba is interesting. He actively pushed BCs mason discussion. Proposed the mass claim. Then comes this post:

On January 14 2012 15:49 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 15:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Sandroba mason me bro!

Nah you don't interest me. Plus I wish I could. Maybe I can. Who the fuck knows.


Here, his behaviour contradicts with his mass claim demand. Weird.

What also worries me is that we didn't see a single PM of the masoning between Sandro and BC. It was announced somewhere small in a wall of text, many people (including me) didn't even find. Sandro doesn't mention that he was masoned at all. Why wouldn't you post the PMs? This question is not meant in a "what's going on?" way and not in accusing way. Well, maybe a little accusing.

Also, note this post here:

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2012 04:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:50 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:36 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
and re. I'll be voting BM right now. d1 (like RL-d1) I thought it's the most horrible thing possible but he gives me townvibes.
There's no way I will vote for sandro, bc or bum because I think either 1 or 2 out of them is scum and the mafia out of those is trying to screw with me / us.
I just don't want to vote into that triangle of I-don't-know.

wbg would be an alternative but I've got more of an stubborn-palmar read than a useless-palmar read and I'd like to lynch someone else d1. If possible someone who's not a vet and leave palmar for d2.

Wiggles and kita didn't say a lot lately so although I (somehow) got a townfeeling out of that much nothing I'd much rather vote someone else.
Mattchew and VE a re both town but I'd rather have someone else in that position imo.
Oh and everyone who got no mention either is hard to judge for me or is not worth a mention. Deal with it :p

Still catching up. I'm reading the last 2 pages, I'm eating and I will post a little bit more if needed.

I'll take that as me being too awesome for your judgement or something.

I'd like to hear from Foolishness now.
What made it seem like a good idea to make Mattchew run for mayor, over equally active people she had more history with? Why is she interested in controlling Bill Murray?

actually yeah. I have no idea what you're up to at this point in time. I'm going to quote from my sheet:
7. Cyber_Cheese
I haven o idea
no idea at all

I tried several times to get something about you going but I never was able to put something into words. You're like THE nullread I have in this game and I don't know why I have so much trouble to figure you out. Want to to me a faver and tell me real fast who you want to lynch and who's the best mayor in your opinion (other than yourself) ?
I don't really want to read your filter again right now

Mayor, I honestly have no idea. I was pretty close to going for Mattchew after he explained how he got to choosing Foolishness. I suppose BC doesn't seem like the bad choice people make him out to be, I feel like he's explained his plan enough.
Lynch... Probably VisceraEyes or Risk.Nuke, for starting a mayorial campaign and giving up on it.

To clarify the lynch. I want the scummiest person who ran for mayor. I'm just not sure who that is at the moment.
Sandroba seems like a decent option.


so that's sandroba for lynch, VE for lynch or risk nuke for lynch and BC for mayor?
Or was sandroba another viable option for mayor for you?


I actually like the lynch the mayor candidate plan. But I really think that scum would bet on their best horse. So if there's one scum mayor candidate, it would be a well established player IMO. That leaves us with?

BC? Sandro?


unlikely sandro.

In a game with meapak, myself, BM, incog, and L would make far better "horses" than sandro We are all higher profile players and at least of the 5, 3 of us have decent scum games. Sandro has less experience in both town and mafia compared to the rest of us.


seemed a little off as well, BC instantly jumping in to defend Sandro.


If I am wrong here, please correct me, as I might have missed something.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 17:11 GMT
#1585
[QUOTE]On January 16 2012 02:06 L wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 15 2012 20:36 Jayjay54 wrote:
7) L: Still haven’t forgotten the fact the he asked our vig who to shoot and I don’t want anyone to forget about it. He did provide one post on that topic:
[QUOTE]On January 15 2012 06:13 L wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 15 2012 05:24 Toadesstern wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 15 2012 05:16 L wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 15 2012 05:14 Toadesstern wrote:
so VE you thought you're a dayvig and in reality you're not? Wtf is going on with this town people. Mass claims, mass fails, blues being modkilled, blue outing they vig-power and bc managed to get town discussing a whole day about pussy-masons.
The only thing that could go worse would be Palmar stepping into this thread, threatening X to do Y or else he will dayvig him and X ends up dayvigging Z.
Srsly guys wtf is wrong with you tonight [/QUOTE]
Hi there!

If you'd like to post in the thread, feel free to add content rather than remarking that things are bad. Watch what I do, okay?

VE, Are you going to shoot CC tonight?

See? Content!

[/QUOTE]

awesome. Let the guy who just claimed vig now claim who he is about to shoot so that mafia does not even have to wifom about if he's going to shoot or not but only has to wifom about VE really is "smart" enough to pull a drazerk on us or not.

I mean you just asked a vig (if that's right) who he is about to shoot. I'll repeat it: You are asking a vig who he is about to shoot

wtf is going on.[/QUOTE]
Someone just made a claim to the strongest town role in the thread. He has multiple avenues to confirm his role if he's not lying.

No shit I'm going to ask him if he's going to shoot THE PERSON HE ALREADY TRIED TO SHOOT. [/QUOTE]
That is one weak explanation. This action is nowhere near town. Seriously. Why would you? If you want to confirm a role, the shot has to be posted right at the deadline or even a few minutes afterwards.
This was either puuuuure stupidity. Or actually a scumslip.
Also if you want to look [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=66]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=66[/url]
You can see a small bandwagon of possible L voters in three posts. Really Opz, Jitsu and Supersoft are indeed not on my green townie town list right now. Might be coincidence and I probably would have ignored it, if the persons joining the L train would be different.
[/QUOTE]If you had bothered to think about the situation, the 'why would you' portion might become a bit clearer.

But its pretty clear that you haven't and that you're tunnelling off a suspicion you've been nursing. Your last line is pretty hilarious, because you pretty much say it overtly. But have no fear, I'll explain the rest once day rolls around if I'm still alive. If I'm dead, by contrast, please get to the bottom of the VE saga. Tea and crumpets will be had. Cheerio.[/QUOTE

I am not a hugh fan of the "please think about it and you'll see why" solution. Please enlighten me. It looks stupid to me and to others as well.

In what way am I tunneling you? I even state that it might be a stupid mistake. If you have a reasonable explanation, even better.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 17:51 GMT
#1591
@macpo. answers in red

[QUOTE]On January 16 2012 02:19 Macpo wrote:

Ok, I feel I have now to address some critiques which got louder and louder to the point that I am close to being lynched.
As far as my friendly tone is concerned, please first have a look at my previous posts in the mafia section, and you will see that I am not "faking" this for the purposes of the game (unless I had foreseen before actually starting the game that it would help being mafia later).
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133814&currentpage=27]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133814&currentpage=27[/url]
or, in the beginning of this thread, before day 1.
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=16]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=16[/url]
For further psychological profiling, if you really want to go that far, have a look at the zerg help me thread in sc2 strategy section.

Do you guys remember that it is completely normal to be modest and friendly when you arrive somewhere? Think about it: you get on a forum you don't know anything about, how can you even think about doing this weird shit you all do, like random accusations every 2 seconds? I didn't suspect not doing this would bring me into huge trouble, and that insulting and accusing everyone was the way to go. So I feel it's kind of unfair to make me reproaches in this regard.
About lists: what's wrong with lists, BM did a list… nobody complains… I still don't get the point. The truth is, I really don't know how to identify who is mafia. I have read many guides on TL, or even on mafia wiki, but hey! it's a lot of (often contradictory) information. Even the vocabulary is a pain in the ass, as I have to go on mafiawiki every two posts to understand what you are talking about.

If you read that many mafia guides, you probably know, that you never should stress being a newbie and apologizing. As a town player, you want to have people on your side. It is important that people have faith in you and therefore you have to convey faith in yourself, which you don't. That is why, people accusing you. Not because you are friendly, but because you constantly make yourself done.

The difference between your list and BMs list, is that BMs showed what he actually thinks (or what he wants us to believe what he thinks) while your list just gathered information. Again, if you read the guides, a normal scum thing. Because you seem to provide information when you actually don't.

So if I'd play just by those guides, you are acting like the total scum. Seriously, go ahead and check the guide in this subforum out. You'll find yourself there.



Now I feel my only chance is to be as transparent as possible. So here I am: my strategy was two sided.
1.I should be honest and rational (the simpler, the better), as the first thing you read in guides is that mafia was always trying to flood/spam/lack of argumentation. So I kind of spoke my mind, and especially shared my uncertainties (only liars want to appear to be certain). I tried to do some constructive stuff, at my skill level, like going through the filter and gather information on who is posting and who is not; instead of saying "=> YOU are guilty", without any kind of evidence as so many did, with the brilliant results we know. I am still not sure why I should give up this attitude, as I feel it's more constructive than lots of other stuff.
Some people say I didn't want to take responsibility, but that's precisely being responsible: not to attack without any kind of reason. Not to mention the fact that I was one of the first to vote, for Bill Murray (who so nicely now wants to kill me).
2. Also, I definitely tried to make friends so that we can back up each other in case we were under attack (like Mr Wiggles and Echelon toe); I take that from my experience of previous games where it is essential (for those knowing Junta). Maybe it's a bit clumsy, it obviously didn't work, but hey! can you even call a piece of argument against me?
But now, because of all this, I feel badly trapped!
So I beg you kindly: don't lynch me! If there is any other evidence or question I can answer to, in order to prove my innocence, just let me know. But please (and I don't want to be excessive, but I am afraid it's gonna end up like that) don't make a stalinian trial like you seem to do all the time:
"YOU ARE guilty Macpo
- No no I am not? I didn't do anything, I wasn't even there!
- WHY do you even defend yourself, if you are not guilty??? YOU ARE guilty!

I kind of answered it above




As a sidenote, let me give my case against jayjay, because I don't give up on scumhunting!


1. as I said yesterday, he constantly spammed all around to say empty things. A lot. changing his mind very often, and so on.

I change my mind very often? Can you give examples?

Of course I don't see people as I did see them friday. It is normal that you have different reads on people after 30 more pages of thread, isn't it?



2. he asked for mass mason claim, he could be looking for blue roles. The most funny part is him attacking Sandroba a couple of posts later for doing the same thing.

What is right here, is that I supported the mass claim. What is wrong here, is that you say I attack Sandroba because of it.

If you read my post properly, I say it's strange that Sandroby first demanded the mass claim and then makes a posts how he might be a mason. This is contradictory.


3. last but not least, he took part in the lynch of Palmar.
[QUOTE]On January 14 2012 02:30 Jayjay54 wrote:
" 3) Palmar.
To quote Entourage: “E doesn’t talk”. He made some one liners, but compared to TL-Mafia 48 (I believe…) it’s just nothing. One can see why you wouldn’t go for the mayor after this trouble. Still, this is very little which could well mean that he is blue and not try to get spotlighted or just what some guys have been posting, that he’s mafia and doesn’t really care at all. Needs more posts to be computed."

That was my very first post in this game. It is on page 31. How does this have anything to do with the lynch? Palmar stepped up and started to talk. I didn't even vote BC. Hell, I didn't even know that anyone actually wanted to lynch Palmar.

Moreover "Still, this is very little which could well mean that he is blue and not try to get spotlighted or just what some guys have been posting, that he’s mafia and doesn’t really care at all. Needs more posts to be computed." is not really a push for a lynch.

Come on.



4. true he voted for mattchew before he got modkilled, but this could just be the opportunity of his scumlife.

Yeah, pushing hard for a town mayor, gambling that he might be modkilled, so I can shine in innocence? That's thinking out of the scum box
[/QUOTE]
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 17:54 GMT
#1592
Why is my quoting not working? it showed up properly in ther preview.

On January 16 2012 02:33 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 02:11 Jayjay54 wrote:
I am not a hugh fan of the "please think about it and you'll see why" solution. Please enlighten me. It looks stupid to me and to others as well.

In what way am I tunneling you? I even state that it might be a stupid mistake. If you have a reasonable explanation, even better.

I know you might not be a huge fan of having to think, but you'll have to make due with that until day rolls around, mon ami.

Why would you you need that information during the night cycle anyways, hmm? I could play dumb and pretend there's no possible reason a townie would want that kind of information and then extrapolate into calling you scum. Who would that remind you of?


Man, don't attack me on a personal level. Keep it on game level.

I thought about it and it makes no sense, you don't want to provide information, alright. But then don't complain, if this seems odd.

And the last paragraph: Yeah I agree, we should only do scumhunting in the day cycle. That way we have way more time...wait what?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 18:58 GMT
#1596
On January 16 2012 03:41 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 02:54 Jayjay54 wrote:
Why is my quoting not working? it showed up properly in ther preview.

On January 16 2012 02:33 L wrote:
On January 16 2012 02:11 Jayjay54 wrote:
I am not a hugh fan of the "please think about it and you'll see why" solution. Please enlighten me. It looks stupid to me and to others as well.

In what way am I tunneling you? I even state that it might be a stupid mistake. If you have a reasonable explanation, even better.

I know you might not be a huge fan of having to think, but you'll have to make due with that until day rolls around, mon ami.

Why would you you need that information during the night cycle anyways, hmm? I could play dumb and pretend there's no possible reason a townie would want that kind of information and then extrapolate into calling you scum. Who would that remind you of?


Man, don't attack me on a personal level. Keep it on game level.

I thought about it and it makes no sense, you don't want to provide information, alright. But then don't complain, if this seems odd.

And the last paragraph: Yeah I agree, we should only do scumhunting in the day cycle. That way we have way more time...wait what?

Man,

Enter the clueless/hurt card at this point. You've put zero analysis other than "I CANT FIGURE IT OUT" into your claim, and you've been tunneled on the issue for around 30% of your posting history. I dont' even have an argument to refute other than your claim that "you don't like the post".

Dude, sick scumhunting. Especially the part wherein you attempt to pressure me into giving information about someone who claimed jack during the game phase wherein he might die.

I think I'm done even bothering to reply to this thread-clutter until you make an argument or day rolls around.

Ciao until morning!


I'm neither clueless nor hurt, but I think insulting players for game purposes is bullshit and thus I called it.

If you ask a vig who is going to shoot and he answers truthfully, you prevented a nightshot. So there is no real perspective townwise. It was a bad town play. That is my arguement and you don't really bother to try to explain that move with anything else than "if you would be smart enough, you'd know what I did that for". bravo.

I didn't pressure you. I just ask for an explanation. You may feel pressured. But in fact, I just tried to sort out why you played like you did. And I didn't ask about VE. I asked about you.

Finally, I didn't refer to my scumhunting, but scumhunting in general. If we are accused to be a scum, just because we ask for information at night, it's going to prevent any scumhunting.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 15 2012 19:10 GMT
#1600
On January 16 2012 04:03 BrownBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 03:58 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 16 2012 03:41 L wrote:
On January 16 2012 02:54 Jayjay54 wrote:
Why is my quoting not working? it showed up properly in ther preview.

On January 16 2012 02:33 L wrote:
On January 16 2012 02:11 Jayjay54 wrote:
I am not a hugh fan of the "please think about it and you'll see why" solution. Please enlighten me. It looks stupid to me and to others as well.

In what way am I tunneling you? I even state that it might be a stupid mistake. If you have a reasonable explanation, even better.

I know you might not be a huge fan of having to think, but you'll have to make due with that until day rolls around, mon ami.

Why would you you need that information during the night cycle anyways, hmm? I could play dumb and pretend there's no possible reason a townie would want that kind of information and then extrapolate into calling you scum. Who would that remind you of?


Man, don't attack me on a personal level. Keep it on game level.

I thought about it and it makes no sense, you don't want to provide information, alright. But then don't complain, if this seems odd.

And the last paragraph: Yeah I agree, we should only do scumhunting in the day cycle. That way we have way more time...wait what?

Man,

Enter the clueless/hurt card at this point. You've put zero analysis other than "I CANT FIGURE IT OUT" into your claim, and you've been tunneled on the issue for around 30% of your posting history. I dont' even have an argument to refute other than your claim that "you don't like the post".

Dude, sick scumhunting. Especially the part wherein you attempt to pressure me into giving information about someone who claimed jack during the game phase wherein he might die.

I think I'm done even bothering to reply to this thread-clutter until you make an argument or day rolls around.

Ciao until morning!


I'm neither clueless nor hurt, but I think insulting players for game purposes is bullshit and thus I called it.

If you ask a vig who is going to shoot and he answers truthfully, you prevented a nightshot. So there is no real perspective townwise. It was a bad town play. That is my arguement and you don't really bother to try to explain that move with anything else than "if you would be smart enough, you'd know what I did that for". bravo.

I didn't pressure you. I just ask for an explanation. You may feel pressured. But in fact, I just tried to sort out why you played like you did. And I didn't ask about VE. I asked about you.

Finally, I didn't refer to my scumhunting, but scumhunting in general. If we are accused to be a scum, just because we ask for information at night, it's going to prevent any scumhunting.


It's just Mafia, man. It's a pretty emotional game, small insults get thrown around all the time. You learn to ignore it pretty quickly.


hmm. I guess you're right. Whatever.

But since, you are around and you pretty much lurked all game with a couple of non specific one liners:

How do you feel about our elections? And what did you think of that Palmar lynch?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 17:20 GMT
#1781
Hey guys, I’m back from work, so I have time to figure stuff out.

First of all, GG to all the dead. May they rest in peace! WP everyone.

I try to focus on the NKs, we may get information why they were shot. I’ll compare them by listing People they opposed and things they supported, mostly with quotes. May contain traces of WIFOM.

I want to start with the not so sure shot people. You'll see why.


Lanaia


On January 16 2012 14:10 Bill Murray wrote:
I am pretty sure I saved Lanaia from being killed last night


People she opposed:
Well, pretty much none (talking about before the day 2 start, she gave a pretty neutral list today). A little post against palmar, a little post about L, but quickly withdraw.

Things she supported:
Well, uhm. Yeah. Vote was on BC
Sooo Lanaia? What? Why? She was a total Null read to nearly everybody. Some people even called her scum. Includiiing:

On January 15 2012 21:52 Bill Murray wrote:
Lynch, Lynch, Lynch!:
Lanaia
Mafia


a) Why the fuck would BM jail Lanaia? Because he thought she has a role? Lanaia was even confused herself.

On January 16 2012 14:16 Lanaia wrote:
Bill, if that were the case, would I have been notified of being killed?
But yeah, I can confirm he did target me.
However, I have no idea why. May I ask why?

This makes 0 sense to me. Care to explain BM?

b) How does BM know that he saved her? Does he get notified? And why would he want that if he thinks shes scum? And why on earth would the mafia use a pretty NK to kill a pretty neutral person who even was a lynch candidate to some? Please enlighten us BM.

=> Don’t know what to make out of it. But I don’t believe whatsoever that the mafia used a NK on her. Which is why:

On January 16 2012 12:30 kitaman27 wrote:
I was shot last night. Ty <3



seems real to me. Correct me if I’m wrong, but he is the only other guy who claimed to be shot. So mafia either used the NK on him or Lanaia. For reasons I stated, I believe kita 95%. So I keep going analyze his posts a bit.


Kitaman27:


Opposed People:

At first, a little poking on BC. Nothing serious.

Finally this post a pretty good summary of what he thinks:
Hydra because of lack of focus.
BC because of his discussion.
VE because of jack claim.
Foolishness for swapping.
Smaller accusations: p4ndemik, Lanaia, sheth, WBG
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 16 2012 05:30 kitaman27 wrote:
I question Protactinium's lack of focus on a single target. He lists three different lynches as his election platform. If he is so convinced on BC, why save him for later? If it is due to the lack of public support, what happened to Ciryandor? He drop his case and never bring him up again. As for his actual case against BC, I do like his mindframe of going through past games to find BC's stance on pms. I agree with the lack of content the mason discussion actually produced and question how his claim actually benefits town. His entire argument could have been made without a role claim. I asked BC to provide his role PM's during the first day, but he ignored my request. I'm not sold that his mason claim was pushing a scum agenda however.

In regards to the VE jack claim, I'm uncomfortable that he followed through with pressuring the town to elect him based on the claim. He just called BC scummy for the same reason moments earlier.

Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
BC, I consider your claim to be scummy for this reason: you're essentially leveraging your role to win you this election. Discuss.


Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 06:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
L, I'll prove I'm Jack by shooting tonight and Masoning you tomorrow then. That's my plan.


The goal of your role is not to prove you are jack. That means very little to us. Your objective is to do what most benefits town. I strongly disagree with a mason. I'm not even sure why you would consider that over a shot, vet or a medic protect from a town perspective.

Foolishness, your election vote confuses me. You open up the game explaining how you would be supporting BM, explaining how he has something to prove and would be easy to read. Initially, I was opposed to this thinking he would only serve as a distraction to the thread and the game would revolve around his mayorship. After BM started posting reasonable, rather than following up with your support for him, you swap to BC instead. Not only do you not comment on Prot's case against BC, you don't explain why you dropped your support of BM. BM, you indicate that you have a strong town read on him due to the trolling, but I ask that you at least consider the alternative, considering he has trolled in scum games as well.

p4NDemik's motives seem questionable. I'm curious why he made your town list BM. His entire focus on day one is selecting a mayoral candidate and doesn't mention who he is suspicious of or would like to get lynched.

Lanaia is asking a bunch of questions about things that aren't all that relevant to the game. If she were town, I would think there are some more important things to be wondering about.

I still dislike Sheth's defense of Palmar. I feel as if he was playing up Palmar's contributions with knowledge that he is town. I'm interested in hearing others opinions on that series of posts.

bugs concerns me because he was so focused on Palmar, that he didn't seem very interested on commenting on anything else. From seeing his play in couples and responsibility, he has no reservations about pushing lynches with 100% confidence, having them flip town, and then moving onto his next target.

Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 12:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm pretty sure scum want BM in office over BC.

Which probably means BC is town. Kita is scum.

dat bitch.


This is quite the leap in logic.

Scum prefer BM over BC (?)
Therefore BC is town (??)
Hence, Kita is scum (???)

Even after making no posts during the first 48 hours BrownBear still hasn't commented on anything. Surely you have some opinions, even if you aren't able to vote for a candidate?

hiro, I'd like you hear your thoughts tonight. erandorr hasn't done anything to make me think he was town, so you should try to change my mind.

I could go on about others, but I don't really have the time and I'm not sure how helpful it would even be. I'm much more confident on my town list than my suspects, but posting it doesn't seem very beneficial at this time. I'll try to narrow down the scum targets and make more of a real case against someone during the day cycle.



Things he supported:

Vote on Bm

He disapproved a lot on the mason claim plan.

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 14 2012 05:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 05:45 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 14 2012 05:31 kitaman27 wrote:

I disagree with a mass mason claim. A mason is a town favored role. Denying the mafia mason is not the priority. I'd be more than happy if a scum mason tried to contact me, considering they are now pressured into openly sharing their reads. People tend to have loose lips when regarding pms, but if you always consider their motives and agenda then there is no problem. With a mass claim, the scum team is free to pick off or roleblock blues. Suppose there are 4 mason claims and two get shot night one and flip town. Does that tell us anything about the remaining two masons? Not really.


this is a really bad post imo.

1) no it's most certainly not town favoured. the mafia gets to prove read every single PM. while mafia can just target weak players in our team and thus spread confusing.

2) how on earth wouldn't it tell us something about the remaining masons? you say that townies claimed wrong? because in this scenario 4 masons are claimed, 2 are most certainly mafia, aren't they?



1) I guess we have to disagree then. Even if mafia target weak players, those weak players still have logs of the agenda the mason is pushing on them. It is incredibly useful to have someone to bounce ideas off of in private, even if you don't know their alignment. In addition, it generates additional information that isn't available in the thread.

2) We don't know the role distribution. It is just as likely that there are 4 town masons and 0 scum masons as it is that there are 2 town masons and 2 scum masons.

For people saying there isn't a downside to a mass mason claim, of course there is. Mafia now has the identities of additional blue roles. Why am I the only one making any sense at the moment?



Let’s go on with confirmed kills.


GiygaS:


GiygaS the Townie has been killed.


People he opposed (the only one shot with real cases imo):

WBG

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=1504&topic_id=253716

Case on VE. Flavours of WBG again.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=81#1612

Things he supported:

Vote on BM.

Shutting down mason discussion.

Mason claim

On January 14 2012 06:01 GiygaS wrote:
I'm for a mason claim. While mafia would know their identities, it provides transparency for the town as well, and if a mason is under suspicion and he's not dying from mafia, it's more evidence against possible scum.



Here's Kurumi:


Kurumi the Vigilante has been killed.


People he opposed:
(very early game) list: + Show Spoiler +
On January 14 2012 01:59 Kurumi wrote:
1. kingjames01
2. Refallen
3. supersoft
4. Slardar
5. risk.nuke
6. kitaman27 - Maybe vet but not sure. Plays quite good both alingments
7. Cyber_Cheese
8. Jayjay54
9. Kenpachi - lurks a lot, sucks a lot, shoots scum a lot. (vet?)
10. Munk-E
11. EchelonTee
12. Adam4167
13. Mattchew
14. Liquid`Sheth
15. L Shit son.
16. Meapak_Ziphh Same thing as Foolishness.
17. ~OpZ~
18. wherebugsgo
19. BrownBear Damn.. was he good scum? Can't even remember.
20. Ciryandor
21. Bill Murray known for distruptive and puzzling behaviour
22. rgTheSchworz
23. Foolishness Can't think of anything because he always played minor role when he played with me ._.
24. Toadesstern
25. Jackal58 Known for short posting style and likes to tunnel a bit. Good.
26. d3_crescentia
27. BloodyC0bbler Fear him.
28. Lanaia
29. Kurumi
30. blahz0r
31. VisceraEyes - people say he improved a lot, idk personally
32. GGQ rarely plays but mostly does well as town
33. sandroba Maybe not the amazing-amazing, but he's very good as town.
34. Jitsu
35. zeks
36. Mr. Wiggles
37. igabod
38. Palmar - very good overall, active and likes to bite
39. Erandorr
40. p4NDemik
41. GiygaS
42. evantrees
43. Chaosquo
44. Protactinium (Mystlord/Incognito) Incognito tends to die quite quickly, he was one of the reasons PYPI was won by the Town
45. Macpo
46. rtgICEMAN
47. Maxella
48. bumatlarge - he has his good moments, like being a Good Bad Santa.
49. Scamp
50. Nisani201
Thereotically new, but good (without colour)
Amazing town capabilities
Very good scum play
Veteran
any ideas to those might be good
remember zodiac lists? I only remember the name of that strat lol
Anyway, the thing is we should get lists like "Good ol' players" which prove to be quite useful when somehow there are two out of 6 left standing and they're beginning to look scummy.

L listed in red.

Cyrandor, he might even have killed him, as he’s err was a vig
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=29#576
www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13140708

Kenpachi, I don’t actually know what to make of this post…
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=64#1277

Iceman www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13150251

“three way scum”: Sandro BC protact. Looks like trolling to me.
www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=81#1613

Things he supported:

Vote on Hydra

Against mason claim.

On January 14 2012 04:57 Kurumi wrote:
fucking mason claim why is it so easy to claim it as mafia now i need to think
also the the word for drama on scene? was good.
be right back


Bodyguards should not claim

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 14 2012 01:35 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 01:29 Jackal58 wrote:
On January 14 2012 00:53 kingjames01 wrote:
On January 14 2012 00:38 kitaman27 wrote:
KJ's bodyguards should claim plan is incredibly poor. So is Jackal's. Even if the scum team did subsititute all three bodyguards, they still have to worry about a electoral official being a vet, which would cost them 3 scum or that one of the bodyguards wasn't jailed, which would also cost them 3 scum.


First, there are only 2 Bodyguards.

Second, I agree with you about Jackal's comment about lynching a Bodyguard.

Third, you're actually agreeing with me in essence. I'm saying that if they sneak in a Bodyguard, it will be risky to take out the elected officials. However, to make it harder for them, they should be revealed from the beginning. What if both elected officials are killed and we have 0 clue as to who the Bodyguards were? Are you okay with that risk?

Finally, are you stating for the record that if you were elected, you would not reveal your Bodyguards?

And what is wrong with the threat of a lynch on a BG? If you don't think scum aren't going to try to sub in at least 1 of them as a BG you're being quite unrealistic. Just leave the threat of it out there.

We should not make Bodyguards claim.
Good to know that someone actually reads my posts Palmar, if You were given ability to kill someone right now, who would it be?



Wiggles:


Mr. Wiggles the Townie has been killed.

Finally Wiggles. Not much to see here IMO.

People he opposed:

GGQ, BB.
Dissatisfied with BC (would rather not have him in the office)/Foolishness/Protact.
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 16 2012 06:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 18:15 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
No discussion :/

Yo, VE, Protractinium, Adam4167, Kitaman27, MrWiggles and EchelonTee
What are your thoughts on:
Palmars lynch/WBG, is WBG scummy?
Palmars lynch/BC choosing him, did you agree with this?
BM/BC being the elected pair?
Who would you look into lynching next and why?
Double Lynch tomorrow?

Other people are encouraged to answer this too.

My stances
WBG deserves scrutiny, but at worst is a null read to me
I feel like BC didn't really explain his choice of lynch in the lead up, and choosing Palmar feels random and underly discussed.
I'm relatively fine with the elections. Those were people I both wanted in.
On double lynching, I feel like earlier on would be better, if we use them well, we can shrink mafia KP faster. Of course, there is some risk, but we also gain more information on where people stand.

Next lynch. An election candidate for sure. Previously I had assumed MrWiggles and Kitaman were sleeping or something, but they really didn't seem to have much impact going into the elections.
I feel like they would be better options to lynch than VE or Risk.Nuke. I would still support lynching Sandroba.

I still don't think WBG is scummy, as of this moment. I don't see how him pushing for Palmar would make him scummy. I was somewhat null on Palmar, as while he was acting similarly to how he does as scum, there was something a little off about it, but I wasn't sure if it was because he was being apathetic as town, or trying to change his scum play slightly.

I don't like that BC didn't mention who he would actually pick for the lynch, before he picked them. He mentioned that he thought palmar was scummy in some of his posts, along with foolishness and incog, but he didn't actually tell us that that was who he was lynching until it was time for the lynch. So, we lost a lot of discussion about the lynch, which probably would have generated far more information than talking about masons. BC's choice is consistent with what he was saying in the thread, but the fact that he wasn't transparent about it bothers me.

I had a town read on BM, much more so than either protact or BC, so I'm fine with him in office; hopefully he puts reputation as being a decent scumhunter to use and uses the position to influence the town. I would rather have not had BC in office, but after protact decided to switch his lynch target and not explain why, I didn't really want him in there as much as I did, either.

I would look into GGQ or BB, but both of those are probably better suited for vigs to shoot. I'll decide who I want to lynch Day 2.

I think depending on the discussion and cases put forward on day 2, it might be worth using the double lynch. Still, this is variable and dependent on what happens on day 2. Otherwise, we should probably wait another day to use them, or at least until we actually have more than two strong targets for the lynch. Remember that double lynches are enacted the day after we vote for them.

Also, as a side note, I'm dissatisfied with all of BC/Foolishness/Protact right now. I've asked things of all of them (as have others), and for the most part have been ignored. That means they're either not reading the thread, or don't care about being transparent and appearing town-like.


Things he supported:

Vote on BM
His circle plan. A lot. So he really was serious about that. But I don’t know how that will help us.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=82#1621



Finally let’s look at our scum buddy.


Ciryandor:


People he opposed:

He mostly defended himself.
Post like this made him look really scummy.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=55#1084
Hindsight I guess. He didn’t really call anyone out though.

Things he supported:

Well, his vote was on BM. But he supported Hydra a little too:

On January 15 2012 12:11 Ciryandor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 12:03 kitaman27 wrote:
Sorry guys, the OP has the incorrect deadline and I was catching up on the thread thinking I would have more time. I'm around page 62, but I'm voting BM because he is the strongest town read I have at the moment of the post. I'll try to post when I finish reading.

Can the OP be updated with the correct deadline?


Same thing here; I only read the blue post saying 9 minutes to deadline with 4 minutes to go, so I just chucked in a vote at Bill seeing that Proact is in the lead (as of the last votecount update I saw), and that I don't like BC to get sheriff because he and Proact are at odds with each other.

As for the comment on lynching, Proact, even if he has changed targets, at least is not being wishy-washy by giving a list of choices, he is at least committing to a specific person to lynch.


______________________________________________________________________________________________

Conclusions
(Assuming kita and not Lanaia was the 4th NK, which is reaaally likely, again no scum would kill her)

Votes: 3 x BM, 1x Hydra. 0xBC

Opposed people:
VE 2, BC 2(1 + 2* 1/2), WBG 1.5 some more accused one time.

Two people who were in favor of using masons actively. Another one was actively trying to prevent the mason discussion Interesting. The fourth one was against mason claim, one of the four however was in favor.

Kind of shades a bad light on BC and sandro who were a) opposing the use all game long and b) actively firing the discussion. I don’t want to bring up Hydras case again, but considering that two out of four were for a usage of town masons makes me want to keep it in mind.

I know that I am against BC basically since he claimed his role, but based solely on the NKs there are quite a lot indicators that point against him. Also against sandro but he was masoned, maybe he was talked into that stuff. But I def feel that a Sandro lynch will help us out a lot. Case has been made. He doesn’t provide anything. He masoned BC. Even if he flips town, we would learn a lot about BC imo. There is no better choice right now.

Also, the VE case is really interesting to me as well. We should look into that as well. Alright, I tried to keep if objective.

And there is a lot of information here. Use it well!

Oh and def double lynch. Bring the heat!

=> ##vote sandro, ##vote doubly lynch

Further look: VE, starting with GiygaS’ case. But someone else please, this here was a lot of work.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 17:32 GMT
#1785
On January 17 2012 02:28 sandroba wrote:
What in the fuck is that post jayjay? That whole wall post doesn't say shit and your conclusion is even more baffling to me. Nice try scum, but you need to make a bit more sense if you want to look good. Huge walls of nothing ain't gonna cut it.


OMGUS much?

if you want to ride, come on and ride. Make a case.

I know that there's a lot of requoting in my post. But it is no empty space, because I summed up what all killed players were up to....and draw my conclusions.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 17:35 GMT
#1788
On January 17 2012 02:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
The interesting timing continues...
Jayjay, What's your opinion on Chaosquo? and on GGQ?

NK's usually have a lot of WIFOM, I hardly feel like that's something to base a whole argument on. And how did you manage to include math in that?


To be honest, they make a lot of sense too. It took me 45 minutes to make that post. So the soft defend shit wasn't posted when I started to write.

I'd be fine with those lynches!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 17:35 GMT
#1789
But. And I want to stress that. We will learn nothing about our mayor. and he scares the shit outta me. Since his claim.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 17:45 GMT
#1795
On January 17 2012 02:37 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 02:20 Jayjay54 wrote:
I know that I am against BC basically since he claimed his role, but based solely on the NKs there are quite a lot indicators that point against him. Also against sandro but he was masoned, maybe he was talked into that stuff. But I def feel that a Sandro lynch will help us out a lot. Case has been made. He doesn’t provide anything. He masoned BC. Even if he flips town, we would learn a lot about BC imo. There is no better choice right now.


When did Sandro mason BC? why are you willing to lynch someone who could very well be a townie? Why are you trying to stop conversation with 'the best choice right now' when we have a chance to find someone better?



They mason'd. You might have not read it because BC has stated it in a single sentence in a huge wall of text and sandro mentioned it one single time.

And most people had the feeling that he was behind that palmar lynch, because of this post.

On January 15 2012 06:05 sandroba wrote:
Palmar you need to try harder, you are too easy to spot as scum nowadays. I'd rather not lynch any vets day1 but you make it so hard not to lynch you. Please go die in a corner.
I'll vote BC since we came to a compromise in pms. Gotta roll.
##Vote: BloodyC0bbler


Both pushed the mason discussion to pure death. BC said he doesn't want to use it. Then he uses it. The whole thing is fishy.

Sandro is involved in this, if he wants or not. He either was talked into the mason discussion or he pushed it himself. I am really sure that one of them is scum. And I am leaning towards BC, but I don't think anyone would lynch the mayor right now.


Also, keep in mind that during the time I wrote that post, the whole issue with GGQ and chaos wasn't up yet. I stated we don't have a better choice right NOW, because we didn't. Right NOW, I think we do. If one of those flips scum and sandro initiated this shit, I am truely sorry, he'll prob be town.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 17:47 GMT
#1797
On January 17 2012 02:40 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Furthermore, exactly how much do you think lynching Sandroba will really tell us about BC's alignment?


At this point, a lot. I'd bet my ass that if sandro is town, BC is scum
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 17:53 GMT
#1798
On January 17 2012 02:44 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 02:35 Jayjay54 wrote:
But. And I want to stress that. We will learn nothing about our mayor. and he scares the shit outta me. Since his claim.

K this is utter bullshit. You lynch me, I flip town, what the fuck do you learn from BC? Why do you even care about BC at this point. Look at his day1. He looks town.


See, I don't agree here. I am pretty sure that one of you two is scum.

And that is kind of my point.

Still, I agree that CCs and yours catch of GGQ and chaos is making my "we have no better choice now" point look bad. Again, this wasn't posted until then.

I'll unvote and vote GGQ, if he flips town, we'll talk again.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 18:04 GMT
#1802
On January 17 2012 03:03 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 02:20 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hey guys, I’m back from work, so I have time to figure stuff out.

First of all, GG to all the dead. May they rest in peace! WP everyone.

I try to focus on the NKs, we may get information why they were shot. I’ll compare them by listing People they opposed and things they supported, mostly with quotes. May contain traces of WIFOM.

I want to start with the not so sure shot people. You'll see why.


Lanaia


On January 16 2012 14:10 Bill Murray wrote:
I am pretty sure I saved Lanaia from being killed last night


People she opposed:
Well, pretty much none (talking about before the day 2 start, she gave a pretty neutral list today). A little post against palmar, a little post about L, but quickly withdraw.

Things she supported:
Well, uhm. Yeah. Vote was on BC
Sooo Lanaia? What? Why? She was a total Null read to nearly everybody. Some people even called her scum. Includiiing:

On January 15 2012 21:52 Bill Murray wrote:
Lynch, Lynch, Lynch!:
Lanaia
Mafia


a) Why the fuck would BM jail Lanaia? Because he thought she has a role? Lanaia was even confused herself.

On January 16 2012 14:16 Lanaia wrote:
Bill, if that were the case, would I have been notified of being killed?
But yeah, I can confirm he did target me.
However, I have no idea why. May I ask why?

This makes 0 sense to me. Care to explain BM?

b) How does BM know that he saved her? Does he get notified? And why would he want that if he thinks shes scum? And why on earth would the mafia use a pretty NK to kill a pretty neutral person who even was a lynch candidate to some? Please enlighten us BM.

=> Don’t know what to make out of it. But I don’t believe whatsoever that the mafia used a NK on her. Which is why:


Could Lanaia be mafia? You ever consider that? I have...Not just the long post today were neutral. Almost every post. But I'll be pointing that out later, I gotta do some things real quick.


I have. But she's kind of a null read. To BM she was scum. Still, he arrests her.

BM is town to me. So I really would like to know what was going on there.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 19:01 GMT
#1808
On January 16 2012 14:11 L wrote:
Jayjay, if you've got questions, now's the time.

I'm going to take a sleep and write up my main suspects thusfar when I have a slow period at work.


Hey man, sup? Good day at work?

So, why did you ask for the vig shot again?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 19:27 GMT
#1813
On January 17 2012 04:05 Cwave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 02:47 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 17 2012 02:40 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Furthermore, exactly how much do you think lynching Sandroba will really tell us about BC's alignment?


At this point, a lot. I'd bet my ass that if sandro is town, BC is scum


How so? I think his masonclaim plan was bad.
But i don't see how Sandro flipping scum/town has any impact on the allignment of BC at this moment?


a) they were both actively pushing a senseless mason discussion, wasting nearly one day, backed up by a stupid role claim without reason. BC suggest ignoring, sandro mass claim.
b) BC is not actually saying who he is talking to and inspite of saying otherwise uses masoning a shitton.
c) sandro is all about the mass claim, then makes a hint how he actually might be a mason himself.
d) their masoning was announced in a strange way (one liner in a wall of text) which makes it even more strange.
e) the logs were published very late. In itself not that bad of an issue. It adds up though.
f) they both "compromised" on a weird palmar meta lynch, including last minute lynch candidate switch 5 minutes before deadline in order to collect 3 votes within the last 3 minutes (excluding sandro)


All in all these 6 points are just to town-unfavoured to come out of two town heads. And I am sure I am not the only one who sees that.

BC also has the bonus points of winning the vote for mayor. And there is no way that mafia had no good candidate. No way. So at least one of Hydra, BM and BC will be mafia! Otherwise the election would have been different.Think about it.

I don't have any read on Hydra, but I am quite sure BM is town.

So yeah,summed up, I am 99.6 % sure that either BC or sandro is scum.

My post above my have skipped some logical points and I am really sorry about that. But the reasoning behind it, is still there.

Even if you are town sandro, I want you to reaaaally consider, please, that BC is actually not town and talked you into stuff. I am town and maybe I've done you wrong. Maybe I didn't. Just read my filter and even hydras to get some odd posts of BC.

I'll be back in like 3-4 hours. If you have some questions, post them, I'll answer.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 19:29 GMT
#1814
On January 17 2012 04:11 hiro protagonist wrote:
Ok, time to start this game

Today's lynch will be scumdroba

analysis coming shortly


and I am not the only one, who thinks sandro might be scum.

He also has a vote and (I believe) a case of Toad, who is also town IMO
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 22:02 GMT
#1846
On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote:
ok back again:
We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.

Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba


so you still would pick sandro over GGQ and Chaos? Have you read that? Looked very much like scum...

As I stated a billion times before, I think either Sandro or BC is scum. If both were town, the logs would be faked. I mean there was enough time, but this is soooo much effort for little gain. I might be wrong here.

If one of them is town, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 22:03 GMT
#1847
On January 17 2012 07:02 Jayjay54 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote:
ok back again:
We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.

Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba


so you still would pick sandro over GGQ and Chaos? Have you read that? Looked very much like scum...

As I stated a billion times before, I think either Sandro or BC is scum. If both were town, the logs would be faked. I mean there was enough time, but this is soooo much effort for little gain. I might be wrong here.

If one of them is town, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...


whoops almost edited. close one.

EBWOP:

If one of them is SCUM, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...

=> I think BC is 65% scum and sandro 35%
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 23:23 GMT
#1883
On January 17 2012 07:42 Protactinium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 07:24 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 17 2012 07:10 Protactinium wrote:

Lets stop discussing Sandroba/BC being mafia for now. There are bigger fish to fry (all the apathetic people).


That's something I've got problems with. Why to you want to lynch into apathetic people at all. Those people are the kind of people you lynch when you've got nothing going on and need to get at least something going.
Just let our vigis shoot into lurkers and deal with them once we run out of obvious targets like sandroba. That's what our vigis are good for after all.

Apathy is not inactivity. Apathy does not mean that a player is unreadable. On the contrary, look at how this game has unfolded as a whole. Day 1 is full of chaos. The thread explodes to 75 pages, and hardly anyone is looking for mafia. You have some hardline players like WBG and company who want to throw Palmar off a cliff, and a bunch of useless mason discussion. The mafia have no reason to be actively at the front of the stage because it inherently carries risk. The town is already in a natural state of chaos anyway. Thus, the mafia are the ones who are going to be slacking off.

A sandroba lynch is absolutely ridiculous and the amount of support it is getting is shockingly disturbing.


Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 04:26 sandroba wrote:
1) Proactinum post is the best one so far. Fuck yes I like it. Cyriandor is my top candidate for lynch if I get elected.

Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 16:34 sandroba wrote:
On January 14 2012 16:31 bumatlarge wrote:
On January 14 2012 16:26 sandroba wrote:
Alright people I want to get elected and no one is fucking voting for me. What do you want me to do so you would fucking vote? Tell me and I'll do it. I have plenty of time right now and I can post random useless shit if that's what get's you voting.


Why ciryandor?

I think I talked about this already. He's ugly and smells bad. Also protact's case was the best thing to land on this thread so far. Also I might lynch a bg instead. Who knows.

No mafia digs up a case on a fellow mafia when it is dead and buried.

Lets look at one of your posts about sandroba:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 16 2012 06:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
@ Toadesstern:

Please explain why you find bumatlarge to be scummy.

Also, summarize your thoughts on Protactinium and sandroba while you're at it. I want to know things from you.



as promised (sry took longer because I completly forgot it ) about sandroba:
I don't like the fact that BC lynched Palmar at all. Sandroba was the guy who made BC lynch Palmar instead of whoever he wanted to lynch first. I asked BC and Sandroba to show me their pm logs, neither one did it and I don't like the coincidence of bc masoning sandroba although I have to agree that that one point probably is circular reasoning because I think it's something that makes bc scummy
Sandroba's budding with Palmar (without a reason) and with BC (without giving an explanation). Also he voted BC.

If you now look at what I posted about bum and BC you realize that there's a lot of mentioning each other within this circle of BC-Bum-Sandroba. I've got the feeling sandroba is trying to trick me/ us his picks and his style obviously is not helping at all.
My highest priority to lynch right now would be sandroba, followed by bum. I won't support a bc lynch although I think he's leaning scum for me right now because I'm not sure about my judgement of bc yet. I'd say he's got a 30-50% of flipping red instead of true 10 out of 50.

Explain how you know Sandroba made BC lynch Palmar, when he never said such a thing.

]Did it ever occur to you that the chaos was mafia made and not town made? And did you also ask yourself who was pushing the discussion? BC and sandro. The masoning buddies. So you're right it, the day was horrible. No one seemed scum, everyone was discussion. Nice place for scum to be in. Don't be fooled that it was town play which got us that.

To who suggested the lynch: This is the log of the last minutes before BC decided to lynch Palmar, decide yourself.
[/spoiler]
[14/01/2012 3:51:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: you are lynching protact 100%?
[14/01/2012 3:52:13 PM] james: not 100% no
[14/01/2012 3:53:12 PM] james: i have foolishness, palmar, protact, brownbear and wiggles
[14/01/2012 3:53:16 PM] james: on a list of possible red vets
[14/01/2012 3:53:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[14/01/2012 3:53:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: i want to lynch none of those
[14/01/2012 3:53:35 PM] james: most wont
[14/01/2012 3:53:41 PM] james: brownbear hasn't posted that I remember
[14/01/2012 3:53:47 PM] james: if i had to choose former mayor candidates
[14/01/2012 3:53:50 PM] james: is shoot slardar
[14/01/2012 3:53:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: bb might even get mkéd
[14/01/2012 3:53:53 PM] james: but hes so obviously not red
[14/01/2012 3:54:12 PM] james: so many vets have done
[14/01/2012 3:54:13 PM] Sandro Maculan: tbh i don't even remember reading his posts
[14/01/2012 3:54:15 PM] james: dick fuck all
[14/01/2012 4:01:44 PM] Sandro Maculan: man I'll compromise don't lynch fool or incog then you get my vote
[14/01/2012 4:04:25 PM] james: fine, ill agree to that
[14/01/2012 4:05:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: k gotta roll
[14/01/2012 4:05:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'd totally support palmar
[14/01/2012 4:06:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck him he is scum
[14/01/2012 4:07:01 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 4:17:56 PM] james: off to work be back later
[12:05:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: i'm back
[12:06:01 AM] Sandro Maculan: who got lynched
[12:11:43 AM] james: palmar flipped miller
[/spoiler]
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 23:40 GMT
#1890
On January 17 2012 08:37 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 08:25 rgTheSchworz wrote:
On January 17 2012 08:20 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
On January 17 2012 08:18 rgTheSchworz wrote:
@Sheth, do not think I am uninformed or dumb in any way. I play IRL mafia if that helps and some friends have gotten me into forum mafia.

(The only way Schworz would know he is bussing someone is if he was mafia too).


Feel free to speculate on my supposed stupidity.Logically before playing i have read some Mafiawiki.I know what the term means.

Macpo is a clear case for reasons i have mentioned.I won't switch to someone else unless people fail to vote.

##Vote: Macpo


Everyone makes mistakes, I wasn't calling you dumb. I in fact state I've made the same mistake. It is speculation, so we'll see. Did you accidentally type bussing then btw? I notice you never really deny it in your post.



Learn to read. No, not at all accidental, i find it more helpful to use an agreed-upon term than a whole sentence to describe the same thing.


I read that you know what the term means. I believe you've always known what the term means. I asked if you didn't mean to say that and you havn't responded to that in two posts. Its a small thing, but a definite thing. I agree that it is easy to use an agreed-upon term to describe things. Again here your saying that you believe he was bussing. You're really not convincing me you didn't scum slip. However for the sake of kieeping today about the small amount of lynch targets, lets get back on GGQ / Macpo.

I'll look through Schwortz filter a bit more closesly later on. I'm sure it will be very interesting from what I remember of his posting


Also, please look into Chaos. We'll hopefully have a double lynch coming up VOTE NOW and take of things.

In other news: I decided to reconsider the last pages and therefore ##unvote.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 23:48 GMT
#1897
On January 17 2012 08:45 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Despite me going after Opz a bit here, today I still want us to lynch Macpo for all of the reasons before stated.


aren't you afraid that he actually IS a newbie town player? I mean stressing to be newb may be a newb mistake afterall.

Don't get me wrong, I'd lynch him, but IMO he might flip town.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 16 2012 23:58 GMT
#1905
On January 17 2012 08:53 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
I'm not afraid of it, but there is a chance he is. I feel that from how he has changed his style so much and from the way he has posted he is very likely a newbie mafia though. And just because someone "might" flip town is never a reason not to lynch him. (I realize you say you'd lynch him).


I see what you're saying.

The difference is that if we mislynch a newb, we actually wasted a lynch. No information at all. No one really seems to support him, some guys call him out for being a newb. Some say "aaaw he's a cute noob, I wanna keep him!".

If we'd lynch someone more controversial a mislynch might at least give us information.

Another option would be a GGQ lynch which would propably correlate with a Chaos lynch. Basically, buy one get one free. IMO.

mac has no such benefits.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 00:00 GMT
#1908
On January 17 2012 08:55 Lanaia wrote:
Jay, I had some questions for you a while ago and I'm not sure you answered them. Looked in your filter, didn't see it.


You asked if I consider both BC and sandro a scum and I answered at some point. If they're both scum, the log would be fake. And a very well one. I don't think that this effort would be worth it. I might be wrong though.

Was there anything else?


Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 00:01 GMT
#1909
On January 17 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Writing. Stumbled across this:

Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 08:48 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 17 2012 08:45 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Despite me going after Opz a bit here, today I still want us to lynch Macpo for all of the reasons before stated.


aren't you afraid that he actually IS a newbie town player? I mean stressing to be newb may be a newb mistake afterall.

Don't get me wrong, I'd lynch him, but IMO he might flip town.


what is that supposed to mean?

You would lynch him, but he might flip town?

Are you saying you would lynch him despite the fact that there's a non-negligible chance he might flip town? AKA you're willing to lynch someone who you are not confident about? Either that, or you're just stating the obvious.


see post in response to sheth
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 01:13 GMT
#1946
Would it even been possible to lower the KPs? I mean 3 goons had to be blocked and kills resolve at the same time, dont they?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 07:16 GMT
#2126
Where did VE claim a hit?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 16:12 GMT
#2156
Votes for Macpo (15)
Protactinium
Foolishness
Bill Murray
Scamp
Jitsu
Meapak_Ziphh
evantrees
Lanaia
bumatlarge
rgTheSchworz
Adam4167
Cyber_Cheese
Toadesstern
glurio
rtgICEMAN

Votes for sandroba (2)
hiro protagonist
Kenpachi

Votes for GGQ (1)
sandroba

Votes for Protactinium (3)
Nisani201
risk.nuke
~OpZ~

Votes for Bill Murray (1)
wherebugsgo

Votes for Kenpachi (1)
BrownBear

Votes for Jackal58 (2)
bumatlarge
BloodyC0bbler

Votes for L (2)
kitaman27
kingjames01

Hey good, we’re finally agreeing on something.

Is it though?

There has never been so much agreement in a mafia game ever. It is the best bandwagon ever. And so convenient. He made some newbie posts and everybody is pointing at him. Mafia is just leaning back and letting us lynch the noob. There is no interference whatsoever. Either mafia has chosen to let him just die or he’s freaking newb townie! This will simply be mislynch.

Even worse, we’ll get ZERO information from a possible mislynch. Nada. “Hey everybody was agreeing. Yay. Let’s lynch him”. We’ll be as smart as we were before.

I realize that, I won’t get my BC vote…and not even sandrobar. But if we take a “lesser” player, let’s pick GGQ or chaos. If we mislynch here, we get information regarding sandros and chaos alignment.

Wake the fuck up, tow!

##Vote: GGQ


For now….if there is someone else gathering more votes, I’ll reconsider, because I think that mac is the wrong choice. No gain, mislynch and no information at all.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 16:15 GMT
#2158
On January 17 2012 20:46 Bill Murray wrote:
I could easily have prevented Lanaia from using a scum ability
when I saw 3 KP, and L claimed Roleblocked, I thought it might have been the combination of the two


You do realize that 3 roles would have been needed to block a KP?

I choose to believe kita who is the only one claiming to be shot (someone said VE, but I think he misunderstood something).
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 16:26 GMT
#2161
On January 18 2012 01:15 risk.nuke wrote:
##unvote: Protactinium
##vote: Bill Murray


why is that risky? what did convince you?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 16:35 GMT
#2166
On January 18 2012 01:31 Jitsu wrote:
C_C, you said in you're post:

Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 19:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Oh yeah, as scum I'd never had more fun in my life than that mislynch
poor guy

But alright-
##Unvote
##Vote Macpo


I might have read it wrong. Can you elaborate?


They were discussing macpo and someone mentionted sephy from another game. that was the context. so yeah, you misread. go apologize
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 16:41 GMT
#2168
On January 18 2012 01:36 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:26 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:15 risk.nuke wrote:
##unvote: Protactinium
##vote: Bill Murray


why is that risky? what did convince you?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=108#2141
And please, call me nuke.
risk is more similar to a clantag so it would be more correct and make it easier for me since people use the word "risk" quite alot in mafia.


fail on my part, sorry mr nuke
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 16:50 GMT
#2171
On January 18 2012 01:44 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:41 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:36 risk.nuke wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:26 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:15 risk.nuke wrote:
##unvote: Protactinium
##vote: Bill Murray


why is that risky? what did convince you?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=108#2141
And please, call me nuke.
risk is more similar to a clantag so it would be more correct and make it easier for me since people use the word "risk" quite alot in mafia.


fail on my part, sorry mr nuke

No harm done
What do you think of Bill Murray?


I certainly think that at least one of the three mayor candidates is scum. The vote had so little interference. Furthermore, I think hydra is town.

=> BM and/or BC scum.

What I think of BC is common knowledge.

BMs latest action made no sense, you got a point there. The thing is, they make no sense from a scum perspective either. Even as a scum sheriff there's no reason to waste a jailtown without reason. He basically acted like a mad scientist and is probably gone insane or trolling. I don't know about scum though, because, like I said, those actions were neither town nor scum favoured.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 16:59 GMT
#2172
On January 18 2012 01:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:12 Jayjay54 wrote:
Votes for Macpo (15)
Protactinium
Foolishness
Bill Murray
Scamp
Jitsu
Meapak_Ziphh
evantrees
Lanaia
bumatlarge
rgTheSchworz
Adam4167
Cyber_Cheese
Toadesstern
glurio
rtgICEMAN

Votes for sandroba (2)
hiro protagonist
Kenpachi

Votes for GGQ (1)
sandroba

Votes for Protactinium (3)
Nisani201
risk.nuke
~OpZ~

Votes for Bill Murray (1)
wherebugsgo

Votes for Kenpachi (1)
BrownBear

Votes for Jackal58 (2)
bumatlarge
BloodyC0bbler

Votes for L (2)
kitaman27
kingjames01

Hey good, we’re finally agreeing on something.

Is it though?

There has never been so much agreement in a mafia game ever. It is the best bandwagon ever. And so convenient. He made some newbie posts and everybody is pointing at him. Mafia is just leaning back and letting us lynch the noob. There is no interference whatsoever. Either mafia has chosen to let him just die or he’s freaking newb townie! This will simply be mislynch.

Even worse, we’ll get ZERO information from a possible mislynch. Nada. “Hey everybody was agreeing. Yay. Let’s lynch him”. We’ll be as smart as we were before.

I realize that, I won’t get my BC vote…and not even sandrobar. But if we take a “lesser” player, let’s pick GGQ or chaos. If we mislynch here, we get information regarding sandros and chaos alignment.

Wake the fuck up, tow!

##Vote: GGQ


For now….if there is someone else gathering more votes, I’ll reconsider, because I think that mac is the wrong choice. No gain, mislynch and no information at all.

I have two problems with this.
1) Mafia could be bussing.
2) You pointing it out is a defence

However, what you say could carry weight, and at any rate he hasn't posted since page 80 so he might be eligible for a modkill today, and that really would be a waste of a lynch.
If people are up for Chaosquo lynch, I will swap back. I'd rather give GGQ longer and hope he comes back, or vig him.


1) yup that's possible. How sure are you though that macpo is scum and not newb? His play has been basically how to not play mafia. If you take newb out of the equation, his case is not stronger than GGQ or chaos.
2) So you're saying I am scum and try to get him out of there? Macpo is the one and only player so far who made a (very clumsy) case against me...if that's not enough, look at my filter and judge me based on my actions.

I'd be up for Chaos. If he flips red, chances are high that GGQ is scum too, since he both softdefended GGQ and cyri. We'd get a lot more benefit from his lynch than from macpo.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 17:04 GMT
#2176
On January 18 2012 02:01 jaj22 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:50 Jayjay54 wrote:
BMs latest action made no sense, you got a point there. The thing is, they make no sense from a scum perspective either. Even as a scum sheriff there's no reason to waste a jailtown without reason. He basically acted like a mad scientist and is probably gone insane or trolling. I don't know about scum though, because, like I said, those actions were neither town nor scum favoured.

What would you expect a scum sheriff to do? No point keeping the jailings for an open roleclaim because you'd just get lynched for it, so the obvious choice is to go blue-hunting.

The nightkills certainly look like blue hunting to me, so it fits.



Hmm. valid point. He also made his own setup by putting her on his scum list with little reason (I think he claimed meta or so).

also his weird, "I think I saved her".

In conclusion, town fucked up big time voting
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 17:07 GMT
#2177
On January 18 2012 02:03 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:50 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:44 risk.nuke wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:41 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:36 risk.nuke wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:26 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:15 risk.nuke wrote:
##unvote: Protactinium
##vote: Bill Murray


why is that risky? what did convince you?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=108#2141
And please, call me nuke.
risk is more similar to a clantag so it would be more correct and make it easier for me since people use the word "risk" quite alot in mafia.


fail on my part, sorry mr nuke

No harm done
What do you think of Bill Murray?


I certainly think that at least one of the three mayor candidates is scum. The vote had so little interference. Furthermore, I think hydra is town.

=> BM and/or BC scum.

What I think of BC is common knowledge.

BMs latest action made no sense, you got a point there. The thing is, they make no sense from a scum perspective either. Even as a scum sheriff there's no reason to waste a jailtown without reason. He basically acted like a mad scientist and is probably gone insane or trolling. I don't know about scum though, because, like I said, those actions were neither town nor scum favoured.

Wrong. while you could argue whether his motive makes sense for scum or town, they were in the end were scum favored.

If he were scum: Using the power on a townie hoping to block a possible heal/check but also wasting one use which means we can not use it in a later situation. Possibly in a town controlled way. Say when we get confirmed townies we want to protect.

If he were Town: Why would he use it on lanaia after arguing she is scum. Blocking potential dt checks or vig hits for the slim chance of actually preventing a mafia move. Consider it's probably just roleblocker and framer who would suffer from it. Godfather Goon and Mason nothing happens. And the jack is limited use anyway.


yea. Already posted above. Might support a lynch. Will think about it a little more.

Fact: A sheriff using his jailtimes that weird is not an effective role either way.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 17:26 GMT
#2180
On January 18 2012 02:20 jaj22 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 02:04 Jayjay54 wrote:
In conclusion, town fucked up big time voting

Given the low vote count on the three main candidates (32 votes, 10 scum), it looks implausible that a mafia didn't get elected unless they really weren't trying. It's quite possible that mafia even spread their votes between (scum) BM and (town) BC on the basis that BC was going to lynch Protactinium or Palmar.



yup that's how I feel. except that I don't think BC is town. BC/BM scum is possible and quite horrible as well.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 17:30 GMT
#2182
On January 18 2012 02:26 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 02:20 jaj22 wrote:
On January 18 2012 02:04 Jayjay54 wrote:
In conclusion, town fucked up big time voting

Given the low vote count on the three main candidates (32 votes, 10 scum), it looks implausible that a mafia didn't get elected unless they really weren't trying. It's quite possible that mafia even spread their votes between (scum) BM and (town) BC on the basis that BC was going to lynch Protactinium or Palmar.



I'm going to say if sandroba really flips green (which I don't believe will happen) we fucked up big time because we've got 2 mafias in office.
If sandroba is red I'm willing to believe BM is green and BC is red.
If sandroba is green I'm willing to believe BM is red. But that's not telling us shit about BC at all. Could be mafia or green,


so you actually consider the logs to be faked? that's a metric fuck ton of work, you don't just "chat", you actually have to put a lot of effort in faking it that well.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 17:42 GMT
#2186
On January 18 2012 02:36 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 02:30 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 02:26 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 18 2012 02:20 jaj22 wrote:
On January 18 2012 02:04 Jayjay54 wrote:
In conclusion, town fucked up big time voting

Given the low vote count on the three main candidates (32 votes, 10 scum), it looks implausible that a mafia didn't get elected unless they really weren't trying. It's quite possible that mafia even spread their votes between (scum) BM and (town) BC on the basis that BC was going to lynch Protactinium or Palmar.



I'm going to say if sandroba really flips green (which I don't believe will happen) we fucked up big time because we've got 2 mafias in office.
If sandroba is red I'm willing to believe BM is green and BC is red.
If sandroba is green I'm willing to believe BM is red. But that's not telling us shit about BC at all. Could be mafia or green,


so you actually consider the logs to be faked? that's a metric fuck ton of work, you don't just "chat", you actually have to put a lot of effort in faking it that well.


kind of. I don' think they're faked but the timestamp might be. Remember I asked him early on to show his logs and he refused to do so and only posted them once the night started.
But yeah you're right that's pretty unlikely


To me, the other extreme BC and sandro being green is bullshit as well, because all those plays were not really townfavoured to be developed by two townies => one of them is scum.

BM is a different story. Jitsu masoned with him. Jitsu? You in here? what's your take on BM after talking to him for like 30 hours.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 19:19 GMT
#2197
17 votes on macpo. the second best candidate has 2.

This is ridiculous.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 19:22 GMT
#2198
oh yeah. and the funny part is: he would have been modkilled either way. tadaaaaa
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 19:31 GMT
#2201
cheese, toad:

set a good example and unvote! maybe we can unite on someone to actually create a scecond lynch candidate? what are your thoughts?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 20:01 GMT
#2206
On January 18 2012 04:51 Scamp wrote:
Jayjay is getting really annoying with his anti-Macpo lynch posts.

Can you please explain what information GGQ gets us as compared to Macpo? And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he going to get modkilled too?

Not that we should expect modkills to do the work for us.


yea I guess we should all stay quiet. that'll help.

if GGQ flips red, Chaos is red, too. Since he's softdefend both GGQ and cyri. Also, there is basically no one (well, maybe me) saying don't lynch him, so if he really flips newb green, we don't get information, while on GGQ there at least has been a little discussion about him. Although, I'm sure that people like will probably tell that I'm if mac flips red. Looking forward to that.

GGQ already posted during this cycle.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 20:16 GMT
#2209
21 people didn't vote yet? how is that an arguement?

I don't go solely by information, there's a good case against him, prob better than the "he plays like a noob" macpo case. Plus the Chaos thing. He's an overall better package.

Whatever, lynch macpo, have him flip town, realize that the whole day was in vain, freeze in astonishment.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 20:25 GMT
#2215
On January 18 2012 05:20 Scamp wrote:
"Probably" and "whatever". That tells me all I need to know.


haha. damn that scumslip. you should build a case on that.

Do you really believe that 17 votes - 2 votes second candidate is something scums would tolerate that easily? scum is pushing for this and town i sheeping behind it. => towntell

The ONLY possible way that macpo flips red is that mafia is bussing him.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 20:28 GMT
#2218
On January 18 2012 05:23 Scamp wrote:
By the way, Jayjay. If you feel that way about our lynch, why the hell are you voting for a double lynch?


because I think there is an abundance of lynch candidates.

sandro, BC, chaos, ggq.

a double lynch also enchances the chances of lynching an established player. e.g if today was a double lynch the race for the second place would be REALLY interesting.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 20:49 GMT
#2236
On January 18 2012 05:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Wait, I feel like I just put two and two together. Maybe I should listen more.
Here's a train of thought;

BM calls Lanaia is scum.
BM protects Lanaia to 'reduce mafia KP', even though it didn't, nor could it have.

So what did it achieve?
It saved her from kp.

There were plenty of options, why Lanaia specifically?
Why does BM want to protect someone he has a scum read on?
I see scum buddies or blue hunting as possible reasons.


hmm. what bothers me so much is that he never ever talks about lanaia a single time until:

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2012 21:52 Bill Murray wrote:
Town
supersoft
Cyber_Cheese
Toadesstern
Adam4167
Foolishness
Nisani201
EchelonTee
Jayjay54
L
Liquid`Sheth
kitaman27
BloodyC0bbler
Kurumi
p4NDemik
Meapak_Ziphh
wherebugsgo

Dont want to lynch:
VisceraEyes
Jitsu
Mr. Wiggles
~OpZ~
Ciryandor
Jackal58
hiro protagonist
GiygaS
BrownBear

Where have you been? Wouldn't mind lynching these lurkers:
igabod
zeks
evantrees
Chaosquo
Cwave
Slardar
rgTheSchworz
Scamp
glurio
rtgICEMAN
Maxella
blahz0r
GGQ

Lynch, Lynch, Lynch!:
Protactinium (Mystlord/Incognito)
sandroba
risk.nuke
Munk-E
scumatlarge
Lanaia
Macpo
Mafia



this post. no case. no nothing and she ends up on the Lynch Lynch Lynch list. Feels somehow like an excuse to jail. Up to that point she posted a little, pretty neutral imo. But, to me, nowhere near a DefScum.

Then this post (which I still don't get)

On January 16 2012 14:10 Bill Murray wrote:
I am pretty sure I saved Lanaia from being killed last night


into random BC accusations based on masoning...

This post is weird too:

On January 17 2012 12:35 Bill Murray wrote:
Ok, guys, I've passed on the names of the BGs to the 2 masons that masoned me
the other guy townslipped in PMs with me


how can someone "townslip". by saying something townish without wanting to do so? what?

and after a page or so posts about his masoning and how VE and BC are scum he just votes vanilla:

On January 17 2012 13:53 Bill Murray wrote:
oh shit
rgshworz associative tell city
i'm voting macpo


Next post:

On January 17 2012 20:20 Bill Murray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 15:11 Adam4167 wrote:
OK, I just arrived in Melbourne after a 12 hour drive for a funeral, so my appearances in the thread will be spotty... but I'm still committed to this damn game.

BM... what the shit man?
-You say Foolishness is one of your strongest town reads
-He even makes it into the 'townie' zone of your big list of names
-You even go as far as to say you wanted Foolishness in the mayor position
-Everyone acknowledges that town Foolishness is a WMD, especially post day 2

Annnd then you choose to incarcerate Lanaia on night 1.. who you labelled as scum?
Don't feed us that crap about trying to lower scum KP on the first night, i aint buying it
Why the hell wouldn't you have incarcerated foolishness?

Something here does not compute for me.

And you still haven't answered the question I asked you earlier.



I know Lanaia from IRC, if she's town she's a great scumhunter
Jailing foolishness is a waste when he's definitely going to be protected by a doctor


Wait what? I thought she's Lynch Lynch Lynch? Maybe I don't understand this post properly, correct me please, but he's saying he jailed her since she's good at hunting scum?

if this is true, this post is funny (20 mins later):

On January 17 2012 20:46 Bill Murray wrote:
I could easily have prevented Lanaia from using a scum ability
when I saw 3 KP, and L claimed Roleblocked, I thought it might have been the combination of the two


saying again that Lanaia was jailed because of roleblocking, which only affects framer, med and the limited use of jac if I'm correct.

a lot of contradiction here.

so all in all, WBG is right. He's full of shit right now. Or insane. Or most likely scum.

I'd be up for a lynch, if we reach enough people.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 21:22 GMT
#2255
Just for the record: my vote is still on GGQ. Feel free to join me.

I would be up for a more risky lynch, but I probably have to settle to lynch someone other that macpo.

Again: MACPO IS GETTING MODKILLED. please switch your votes....
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 21:46 GMT
#2263
On January 18 2012 06:42 Toadesstern wrote:
Could we get a vote update?

Also unvoting and voting BM.


<3


Votes for Macpo (15)
Protactinium
Foolishness
Bill Murray
Scamp
Jitsu
Meapak_Ziphh
evantrees
Lanaia
bumatlarge
rgTheSchworz
Adam4167
rtgICEMAN
glurio
VisceraEyes
Slardar

Votes for sandroba (2)
hiro protagonist
Kenpachi

Votes for GGQ (2)
sandroba
Jayjay54
Votes for VE (1)
jackal

Votes for Protactinium (2)
Nisani201
~OpZ~

Votes for Bill Murray (5)
wherebugsgo
Cyber_Cheese
risk.nuke
GGQ
Toadesstern

Votes for Kenpachi (1)
BrownBear

Votes for Jackal58 (1)
BloodyC0bbler

Votes for L (2)
kitaman27
kingjames01
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 21:57 GMT
#2270
On January 18 2012 06:56 Toadesstern wrote:
annyone else thinking those people who just crawled out of their cavet didn't just come here by coincidence but were told to post something with an excuse by their mafia buddies after they saw that list of afk-people?


hahaha. that would be so funny
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 17 2012 22:29 GMT
#2279
I got a slight feeling that macpo is going to be lynched today.....so I was thinking what we could learn from his lynch.

If macpo flips noob scum player, people might reconsider voting protact.

he called out both cyri and macpo before the end of day 1.

macpo also just voting him without stating a reason ("He needs to die!"). And since he is noobish, he might have given info here.

however, I'm afraid, there's nothing we can learn, if he flips town...

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 12:37 GMT
#2369
Page113
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 14:38 GMT
#2386
On January 18 2012 22:32 jaj22 wrote:
Clarification: That's what it looks like if you do the absolute minimum to dodge a modkill while under pressure.

Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 21:46 EchelonTee wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:27 rtgICEMAN wrote:
At this point i feel like there can be soo many guys suspected as scum, includet me.JayJay's post is rather unusual vague at the end then a realistic post.he says about alot of players then marks sandro as scum.Thought I appreciate his effort for this post, i kinda not agree with its conclusion.I ll keep an eye on GGQ and on lanaia and ill vote someone in the next 12 hours.


Does anyone else think that this post is horrendous? It's incredibly neutral, saying that "man there's a lot of people who look scummy, don't know what to do", which is kind of trivializing discussion. and slightly discredits jay's post, and his conclusion that sandro is scum. Eh.

He has a valid point about JayJay's post though. I had a real wtf moment when I got to the conclusion:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13162408

Probably just confirmation bias though. He has a scum read on Sandroba already, and he's desperately looking for confirmation in data that doesn't really support it.


Actually I have more of a scum read on BC. Since his claim. If you read my filter, you see that. And I'm 95 % sure that either him or sandro is scum. So I agree with BM here, when he says he wants to know sandros alignment to figure out BC. This is written on phone. But I'll post my opinions on stuff more detailled when I get home in some hours.

I'll post my lynch choices now though...BM (who acts insane) and ggq
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 14:40 GMT
#2387
Oh. and stop talking about protact. Hr basically called out two scums day 1. That is really townie Imo
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 19:20 GMT
#2412
On January 18 2012 23:54 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 23:38 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 18 2012 22:32 jaj22 wrote:
Clarification: That's what it looks like if you do the absolute minimum to dodge a modkill while under pressure.

On January 18 2012 21:46 EchelonTee wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:27 rtgICEMAN wrote:
At this point i feel like there can be soo many guys suspected as scum, includet me.JayJay's post is rather unusual vague at the end then a realistic post.he says about alot of players then marks sandro as scum.Thought I appreciate his effort for this post, i kinda not agree with its conclusion.I ll keep an eye on GGQ and on lanaia and ill vote someone in the next 12 hours.


Does anyone else think that this post is horrendous? It's incredibly neutral, saying that "man there's a lot of people who look scummy, don't know what to do", which is kind of trivializing discussion. and slightly discredits jay's post, and his conclusion that sandro is scum. Eh.

He has a valid point about JayJay's post though. I had a real wtf moment when I got to the conclusion:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13162408

Probably just confirmation bias though. He has a scum read on Sandroba already, and he's desperately looking for confirmation in data that doesn't really support it.


Actually I have more of a scum read on BC. Since his claim. If you read my filter, you see that. And I'm 95 % sure that either him or sandro is scum. So I agree with BM here, when he says he wants to know sandros alignment to figure out BC. This is written on phone. But I'll post my opinions on stuff more detailled when I get home in some hours.

I'll post my lynch choices now though...BM (who acts insane) and ggq


yeah but BC pushes don't look like mafia pushes at all. He catched scum for us. I am pretty much willing to trust him as long as he keeps on catching scum no matter what. Either he's a mafia who's trying to get towncred by catching scum (I don't have a problem with that as long as the mafias end up hanging) or he's a town catching scum and that's obviously not bad either.



hmm I don't see it looking through his filter. he made a case against jackal and kingjames. also he once more acts weird with masons.


HOWEVER, for towns sake I'll stop dicussions about both sandros and BC for now (hint: one out two is scum). I feel this is not really helping right now.

Here are my opinions.

[r]lynch targets[/r]:

[r]BM[/r]: pretty much all is said. summarized the laiana disaster here. Still makes zero sense at all. Accuses protact and BC. Spams away probably Foolishness' post, the probably best post yet with like back to back to back to back answers.

Needs to do some work to get off the suspect-list which will unlikely happen....Right now, I'll support a lynch 100%


[r]GGQ[/r] : I guess you've read the case. also this post

On January 18 2012 13:12 GGQ wrote:
Yeah so I hard defended macpo because I thought he posted like I did when I was new.

It's probably better to vig me tonight instead of wasting a lynch.


seems like a straaange try to at least get a vig to shoot him.

Flipping him red is probably the only way to regain some trust in sandroba and start hitting the good ol BC train.


[r]Chaos:[/r] Softdefended both GGQ and Cyri. finds the courage to just quote his case uncommented :

On January 17 2012 04:15 Chaosquo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 02:15 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Is it just me, or is that some timing? Just as Sandroba decides GGQ as his vote

It took me some time to write the post before that, and then I refreshed and saw the post by sandroba and felt his argument for pushing ggq was quite weak and I didnt want palmar happening again.

On January 17 2012 02:02 Chaosquo wrote:
ggq: posts quite aggressive and short, but wherebugsgo and palmar made similar posts. I leaned scum, but null read right now.

BAM! SOFTDEFEND

So I took a look at Chaosquo's Filter
On January 14 2012 01:27 Chaosquo wrote:
On January 14 2012 01:18 Palmar wrote:
On January 13 2012 14:56 Protactinium wrote:
On January 13 2012 14:26 Ciryandor wrote:
/confirm

LOL I won't vote for Kitaman after XLVIII's disaster. He was an absolute derp in that. Waiting for people to put in a serious campaign with a decent policy. This is why I'm waiting for Mr. Wiggles and Cyber_Cheese to provide us with good reasons; and right now, Wiggles has the best campaign of the lot.

I of course wonder if Sandroba or Palmar will try to get to the elections again.


I'm running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. There's no way you seriously think Mr. Wiggles has the best campaign.


Hey I agree with this guy, so I'm voting him. I am very much a fan of killing Ciryandor.


What is it with Ciryandor?1 Palmar, are you now trolling us? I agree with Toadesstern that a) you are mafia and dont care about the game or b) you have a special tactic, but randomly accusing him does not help ..2

Wiggles: Does your post mean you are stepping down as candidate?3

On that topic, could all people that are serious in their campaign make it clear? For me, right now there are: BC, BM(?), kitaman and risk.nuke. I think the number of candidates has to be limited to enable a clearer choice.

On January 14 2012 01:44 Chaosquo wrote:
On January 14 2012 01:32 Palmar wrote:
On January 14 2012 01:27 Chaosquo wrote:
a) you are mafia and dont care about the game


Prove it.


I was just commenting on your playstyle. I was just following the meta on you (town=vocal, scum=lurking), but seeing as you were quite active as "scum" in resistance, I retract my statement. But still posting one-liners is not helping much, no?24

On January 14 2012 01:46 Chaosquo wrote:
I have to ask: Is the kill Ciry thing a meta thing? Because I didnt see much scummy things from him.1

On January 14 2012 08:38 Chaosquo wrote:
I still think BC is quite towny, as he put himself quite into the spotlight and his posts didnt raise suspicions. I just cannot imagine he would risk his quite good shot at an elected role by claiming mason if he was scum. Therefore, I think for the time I'm going to vote BC for mayor. I could be totally outplayed, but so be it. Or maybe I put too much value into an elected scum.

I am a new player5, so I can imagine that good scum team can manipulate a inexperienced player, but he will probably only influence the game with his single vote (if he's green), so I can see why masons staying hidden is advantageous for town.

Also, since I got ignored the first time, why is there so much hate towards Ciry?1 I dont think his posts are very scummy, but there are 3 people (sandroba, proactinium and sheth) pushing for his lynch. I also dont think this alone is a scumtell, but its still pretty irritatiting ..


1 - Protects Ciryandor multiple times.
Look at the thread at that time. Ciry only made three meaningful posts at that time and non seemed very scummy. I didnt understand the accusation protactinium and sandroba were making, it didnt have much grounds imo. I thought that this accusation got seemingly randomly picked up by different people (Sheth comemntated on it later), which left me pretty confused, so I wanted to hear a stronger case.
2 - Casts doubt on both Palmar.
I just said that what palmar was doing is questionable, and I wanted him to step up the posting to avoid getting lynched.
3 - And Wiggles

4 - Apologetic
That was after I looked into his other game and I felt the meta argument was overdone.
5 - Calls attention to his inexperience
And I was trying to reinforce the point that I that believe mafia masons can manipulate town.

##Vote Chaosquo



which is probably a statement in itself.


honorable mentioning: VE:

I feel like this case has got to little attention. And it's writer is dead:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=81#1612

so he's on my top people to watch 2012 list.


*CoughCoughI'llalsolynchBCorsandroCoughcough*...sorry




not willing to lynch:

~OPz~: pretty much dismantled sheth case on him yesterday / today (depending on time zone ) no real town vibes though

L: is on foolishness list which I like a lot, still looks somehow town to me.

Meapak_Ziphh: total Null. can't read him whatsoever.

looking at the rest of fools list, I don't know. Kingjames and jackal might be right, but I wouldn't support a lynch yet at all.

brownbear and evantree continue to lurk hard. brownbear at least yells a very conving "pew pew die scum"....but right now I feel like we have better targets.

lanaia: just mention her, since she was one of twisted-BMs choice. should step up a bit though.


[g]defend:[/g]

protact: I already posted it, get of his ass. seriously, calling two people out on day 1 and both are scum. He also conveys a town favoured agenda. Unless BC & BM don't flip, he's town to me. @protact keep on analyzing.

toad: he might have his own view on this game. But he always looked town to me. He pretty much called out the same mason discussion bullshit, I did too. He puts a lot of effort in. Looks really town to me. Why is he on so many peoples list?

____________________

conclusion

I try to not come up with another WTF moment here

Votes right now a on BM and GGQ or Chaos, whoever gets more votes. If one is scum, they both.

VE will be watched.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 19:21 GMT
#2414
turns out the tag is still [red] and not [r]. also and not . I am truely sorry
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 19:40 GMT
#2420
On January 19 2012 04:33 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and please stop telling me "Toad you're very wrong". So far I was right with pretty much everything I said. The thing were I have an opinion that differs from yours is sandroba. Everything else is totally the same.
I said mattchew is town, I said palmar is town, I said cyri is mafia, I said macpo is probably mafia but I'd like to lynch someone else first to get a better read on him because he posted so little, I said kita& wiggles are probably town when I talked about their campaigns, I said foolish is probably town and I'm agreeing with pretty much everyone on that mafia list.
How can you say I've been wrong so much. The only thing I could be wrong about could be Sandroba and he hasn't flipped yet.
So PLEASE stop telling me I'm wrong so much if everyone that flipped showed I was right with what I say and the one person we've got different opions hasn't even flipped.


what I think is funny is that you are getting smacked left and right and are also on peoples list for that sandro bullshit, while I do basically the same thing and end up on no list...

we pretty much agreed on most and even the unpopular stuff, you were just leaning towards sandro scum and I BC scum. why is no one casing me. I find that hard to understand. seriously, people are trying to fuck you man
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 19:43 GMT
#2422
On January 19 2012 04:30 GGQ wrote:
As day 1 was coming to close, Protact was leading the mayor vote and promising to lynch Macpo after already calling out ciryandor. It's possible he's scum bussing two teammates but that's not likely enough to be seriously considered at this point.

It's far more likely that the scum are players trying to distract from lynching these two on day 1, like wherebugsgo pushing hard on palmar all day, supersoft joining him, BC lynching palmar.


hey man, u might want to improve your reputation around here. since you're pretty much saying nothing more than a vague opinion:

who would you, GGQ, lynch right now and why? you got two votes!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 19:48 GMT
#2424
On January 19 2012 04:43 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2012 04:40 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 19 2012 04:33 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and please stop telling me "Toad you're very wrong". So far I was right with pretty much everything I said. The thing were I have an opinion that differs from yours is sandroba. Everything else is totally the same.
I said mattchew is town, I said palmar is town, I said cyri is mafia, I said macpo is probably mafia but I'd like to lynch someone else first to get a better read on him because he posted so little, I said kita& wiggles are probably town when I talked about their campaigns, I said foolish is probably town and I'm agreeing with pretty much everyone on that mafia list.
How can you say I've been wrong so much. The only thing I could be wrong about could be Sandroba and he hasn't flipped yet.
So PLEASE stop telling me I'm wrong so much if everyone that flipped showed I was right with what I say and the one person we've got different opions hasn't even flipped.


what I think is funny is that you are getting smacked left and right and are also on peoples list for that sandro bullshit, while I do basically the same thing and end up on no list...

we pretty much agreed on most and even the unpopular stuff, you were just leaning towards sandro scum and I BC scum. why is no one casing me. I find that hard to understand. seriously, people are trying to fuck you man


tell me about it. If the rules would not tell me to not get myself lynched I'd totally tell everyone to lynch me and if I flip town to just wbg for revenge and shitting on me although there is literally nothing except the one read that differs: Sandroba (oh and palmar, were I (<----) was right)


modkill sacrifice

btw: Leaning towards WBG being overly aggressive townie. No scum.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 19:54 GMT
#2426
On January 19 2012 04:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2012 04:40 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 19 2012 04:33 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and please stop telling me "Toad you're very wrong". So far I was right with pretty much everything I said. The thing were I have an opinion that differs from yours is sandroba. Everything else is totally the same.
I said mattchew is town, I said palmar is town, I said cyri is mafia, I said macpo is probably mafia but I'd like to lynch someone else first to get a better read on him because he posted so little, I said kita& wiggles are probably town when I talked about their campaigns, I said foolish is probably town and I'm agreeing with pretty much everyone on that mafia list.
How can you say I've been wrong so much. The only thing I could be wrong about could be Sandroba and he hasn't flipped yet.
So PLEASE stop telling me I'm wrong so much if everyone that flipped showed I was right with what I say and the one person we've got different opions hasn't even flipped.


what I think is funny is that you are getting smacked left and right and are also on peoples list for that sandro bullshit, while I do basically the same thing and end up on no list...

we pretty much agreed on most and even the unpopular stuff, you were just leaning towards sandro scum and I BC scum. why is no one casing me. I find that hard to understand. seriously, people are trying to fuck you man

Chainsaw defence?


had to mafia wiki that:
[The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum". ]

Who did I attack? Even more so, I defended WBG last post.

Or did I get the term wrong
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 20:01 GMT
#2429
On January 19 2012 04:57 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
No no, I don't mean you, I mean the people attacking Toad


sorry, you should have specified that

as I said, bugs is listed as town in my books...

and why wouldn't they attack me in the slightest, when I did the same thing?

To much speculation imo.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 21:12 GMT
#2435
I think we'll have enough trouble pushing BM + X through properly. I don't want to reopen the sandro + bc case again right now tbh. I don't want to have 20 lynch candidates. And by opening that case not only will sandro but also you be one...

toad as long as you have just few votes on you, you're fine. Redo the case when people want to see your head.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 22:15 GMT
#2441
On January 19 2012 06:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
All medics, foolishness and protract are your responsibility tonight to defend.




This is no accusation whatsoever! just a new player question!


is it good to distribute medics? because if I were scum, I'd probably not shoot them anymore. While you achieved to save those two lifes, the chance of a medic safe decreases, because medics will (likely) protect them (maybe they'd do anyway).

So in what situations is it good to say things like that?

Seriously, not arguing with your reasoning here, rather curious. Thanks
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 22:25 GMT
#2444
No one answered. So I checked the guide:

As a general rule, normal townies should not attempt to direct blue roles or try to find out who is blue and who is not. Town power roles work better if the mafia are uncertain of what the blue roles will do. It is not uncommon for the mafia to have anti-blue roles such as roleblockers, medics, framers, etc. Therefore, if the mafia has a general idea that the medic will protect X, or the DT will check Y, they are free to mess with those actions if they feel it to be necessary. Do not make medic lists


check, check, check.

yay for making you look even more mafia to me BC
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 18 2012 22:52 GMT
#2446
On January 19 2012 07:47 risk.nuke wrote:
BC, are you dumb or scum, a 50 man game and you want to limit the protection to two potentially strong townies when their alignment isn't even confirmed.

Medics, ignore the shit out of BC.

This is my idea instead.

Medics. Go with your own gut. Who do you think will likely be targeted by the mafia? & Who could be wise to keep alive? In my opinion every medic should basicly make up a small list with people who fulfills one or both of these criteria. And pick OR random a name from there.

Furthermore the town should agree on two people and have Bill Murray wifom incarnate between them. Obviously that means this medics, if these names are on your list you exlcude them from your list this night.

The point is to potentially block kills and frighten the mafia to target the weak townies because the strong townies could have protection.


Though I tend to generally agree to this plan, I am afraid this plan has the fatal flaw that our sheriff is red and mafia will know whos gonna be jailed...

the part where I agree: medics don't focus on two people
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 17:43 GMT
#2669
On January 20 2012 02:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
That is, what specifically is the most suspicious aspect of his play. To clarify. Please.


lately he's been posting this

On January 19 2012 06:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
All medics, foolishness and protract are your responsibility tonight to defend.


which I learned is a scum move. for older things, my filter will help. although some reads changed, the BC parts stay. Someone pointed out earlier that he found some scum? Can he show me where?



Also,

guys, BM is scum and falseclaiming. And I say why:

a) I don't see why you would let yourself vote as sheriff if you're a mad hatter. You actually want to die at some point. So why hand yourself in.

b) There is no way he has a scum read on both protact and foolishness (on day 2!). This is straight out saying the best scumhunters yet are scum. Which makes no sense as town. Even if you think they're scum, you probably place your bombs some place else.

c) "Oh I failed to submit". Yea right.

d) "I failed you as a sheriff" indeed

e) all this stuff he did before "CC is confirmed scum"; jail desaster laiana, talking shit, see my filter for a little more.

HE NEEDS TO DIE. ##Vote: Bill Murray

Even in the highly unlikely very worst case he flips town and he blows up foolishness and protact, we'd at least have a confirmation that BC is scum. This case is bad, but there is still a benefit.

Why is everybody abandoning GGQ? I still like his case and would like to lynch him. We would learn a lot about sandro and chaos too ##Vote: GGQ. This vote may change though.

Finally, no doubly lynch imo. High risk, little reward.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 18:27 GMT
#2677
On January 20 2012 03:07 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2012 02:45 kingjames01 wrote:
On January 20 2012 02:40 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 20 2012 02:37 kingjames01 wrote:
On January 20 2012 00:49 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm not sure if we should vote for double lynch yet.
The lynches we're attempting are kind of risky.
I am on BM and KJ. If BM turns out green we lynched an office and there's enough people saying there's one mafia within BC/BM and I'd agree with that. If kingjames flips green we got a bunch of players who accused him and actually KJ just dir a case himself.
For me the lynches we get tonight are a turning point to see which "side" is right I don't know if I'll be able to make 2 decisions tomorrow. Of course if both flip red that's going to be easy, but if both flip red we surly can take a single-lynch to go on as well because we'd already be in a huge lead.
If it's only 1 or 0 reds I don't know if another doublelynch is the way to go.

Imo doublelynch is a low-medium risk with 0 gain if it turns out to be the right move and little to medium drawback. I don't think I want that right now


Finally, Toadesstern, I have been suspicious of you for a large portion of this game. I pegged you correctly early in TL Mafia XLVIII because of the things you say and do.



wat? I'm cooking right now and I'm only checking tl when I got some time. Is that something good or something bad about me?


Ah, I actually incorporated what I wanted to say to you directly into the next part. Don't accept lynching me for 'information'. That won't do anything. I will flip and then everyone will argue about what it means and then the next bad lynch will be against Protactinium or Foolishness.

Just heed my words and look through my posts. Do some analysis. If you ACTUALLY find something suspicious, then come back and report it.

But I want to lynch for information so badly

I'm not even talking about you, it's still about Sandroba. I'm either spot on and people are not trusting me for a reason (= safe sandroba/chainsaw-defence) or I am the town moron this game who's all like "herpaderp, Annul dayvigged a townie, therefore he has to be a townie himself, herpaderp!". I'm dying inside and want to know what's going on.
So far my 3 choices are either you (because I kind of trust protact or want to know if I can trust him), BM and Sandroba (because I trust myself and want to know what's going on). Needless to say that Sandroba is the only one I'm having an easy time to put my vote on. You got some drawbacks and BM might end up being town (just like you) but he's our sheriff. That'd be pretty bad.

But yeah I'll read your filter and tell you tomorrow what I think about it (19:00 in ger, leaving in 1hour). Voting you because I trust or wan to trust protact isn't exactly a good reason to vote someone so I'll have to check that.


may I suggset lynching the good sir GGQ for information AND catching scums? Sandro made the original D2 case on him and was the first to vote him, iirc. Plus chaos softdefend.

we might catch either GGQ and chaos and reestablish sandro. Or sandro looks worse than ever before. But I guess the first option is more likely...

I'd agree that he really makes a townish appearance lately, though.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 18:32 GMT
#2678
On January 20 2012 03:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2012 02:43 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 20 2012 02:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
That is, what specifically is the most suspicious aspect of his play. To clarify. Please.


lately he's been posting this

On January 19 2012 06:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
All medics, foolishness and protract are your responsibility tonight to defend.


which I learned is a scum move. for older things, my filter will help. although some reads changed, the BC parts stay. Someone pointed out earlier that he found some scum? Can he show me where?



Also,

guys, BM is scum and falseclaiming. And I say why:

a) I don't see why you would let yourself vote as sheriff if you're a mad hatter. You actually want to die at some point. So why hand yourself in.

b) There is no way he has a scum read on both protact and foolishness (on day 2!). This is straight out saying the best scumhunters yet are scum. Which makes no sense as town. Even if you think they're scum, you probably place your bombs some place else.

c) "Oh I failed to submit". Yea right.

d) "I failed you as a sheriff" indeed

e) all this stuff he did before "CC is confirmed scum"; jail desaster laiana, talking shit, see my filter for a little more.

HE NEEDS TO DIE. ##Vote: Bill Murray

Even in the highly unlikely very worst case he flips town and he blows up foolishness and protact, we'd at least have a confirmation that BC is scum. This case is bad, but there is still a benefit.

Why is everybody abandoning GGQ? I still like his case and would like to lynch him. We would learn a lot about sandro and chaos too ##Vote: GGQ. This vote may change though.

Finally, no doubly lynch imo. High risk, little reward.


So, he said he only had 1 bomb out. He said to keep him alive on this. Reading his filter he does not state who is one bomb is on. So we already know if he is lynched today that even if his bomb is on one of those 2 players that 1 will live. However it is interesting that to confirm my alignment you are for the carpet bomb killing of 3 other players. Two of which are actively analyzing and catching reds. Massive FoS on this.




Really, BC? I WANT to blow up three players? yea that I totally suggest that I think that would be good and I want that. Way to put words in my mouths.

"Even in the highly unlikely very worst case he flips townand he blows up foolishness and protact, we'd at least have a confirmation that BC is scum. This case is bad, but there is still a benefit."

Protact and Foolish are MVPs right now. As I point out in this very post. "both protact and foolishness (on day 2!). This is straight out saying the best scumhunters yet are scum."

I want to lynch BM because of various cases on him and the information I state above.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 18:36 GMT
#2679
On January 20 2012 02:59 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay what do you think of Protact's assessmentof GGQ; he thinks GGQ is town because of his apologetic post.


Yea that seemed odd to me. There is so little to defend him and this post doesn't do shit as well. To me, it looked like a last effort to at least get shot instead of being lynched and have his scum team in a minimal way.

I agree with hydra on most parts, but that didn't convince me at all.

so I keep voting GGQ and I suggest you do the same as he posted nothing to reestablish him
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 19:24 GMT
#2690
On January 20 2012 04:10 kingjames01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2012 03:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 20 2012 02:43 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 20 2012 02:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
That is, what specifically is the most suspicious aspect of his play. To clarify. Please.


lately he's been posting this

On January 19 2012 06:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
All medics, foolishness and protract are your responsibility tonight to defend.


which I learned is a scum move. for older things, my filter will help. although some reads changed, the BC parts stay. Someone pointed out earlier that he found some scum? Can he show me where?



Also,

guys, BM is scum and falseclaiming. And I say why:

a) I don't see why you would let yourself vote as sheriff if you're a mad hatter. You actually want to die at some point. So why hand yourself in.

b) There is no way he has a scum read on both protact and foolishness (on day 2!). This is straight out saying the best scumhunters yet are scum. Which makes no sense as town. Even if you think they're scum, you probably place your bombs some place else.

c) "Oh I failed to submit". Yea right.

d) "I failed you as a sheriff" indeed

e) all this stuff he did before "CC is confirmed scum"; jail desaster laiana, talking shit, see my filter for a little more.

HE NEEDS TO DIE. ##Vote: Bill Murray

Even in the highly unlikely very worst case he flips town and he blows up foolishness and protact, we'd at least have a confirmation that BC is scum. This case is bad, but there is still a benefit.

Why is everybody abandoning GGQ? I still like his case and would like to lynch him. We would learn a lot about sandro and chaos too ##Vote: GGQ. This vote may change though.

Finally, no doubly lynch imo. High risk, little reward.


So, he said he only had 1 bomb out. He said to keep him alive on this. Reading his filter he does not state who is one bomb is on. So we already know if he is lynched today that even if his bomb is on one of those 2 players that 1 will live. However it is interesting that to confirm my alignment you are for the carpet bomb killing of 3 other players. Two of which are actively analyzing and catching reds. Massive FoS on this.

Next as to reply to jackal. I am fine with keeping you around another day now. HOWEVER. You have stated that you were herp derping because you had a role you wished to use before dying, thats great. That means you should be turning into the jackal that has no reason to herp derp. Continue doing so will result in me believing you just shot your gf to build cred for yourself as L was dead in the water anyway. You have a day to step it up.

on to the current lynches, Kingjames01 is an easy first go. Why? Because he has done near nothing this game until he was actively pushed. Then he stops being helpful till again being pushed. His first bit of "analysis" that wasn't on me came at the point where people said lynch him. If he is required to be lynched to actively "analyze a player" this does not scream best interests of the town. Factor in he was trying to get cred from the "i voted for L, why would I vote for mafia gf if I was red" I would say it was easy to read the thread to know L was going to die sooner or later, having at least 1 member jump on that train now makes sense.

As for BM, Claiming to save his life, running for election with a role that requires him dying (the fuck) to activate, his wtf jailing of lanaia with reasoning like

On January 17 2012 10:10 Bill Murray wrote:
WBG I am trying to jail to lower their KP
Say L was roleblocked and Lanaia was jailed
WHAT IF BOTH ARE MAFIA?
That would explain why we had 3 mafia KP last night, and not 4
i am CERTAIN 1 of OpZ or BC are mafia, now, and who else to elect mayor if not the mafia jack?


Note that he said he was trying to jail to lower mafia KP. At that point in time, jailing a red would not have lowered mafia kp (anyone with half a brain would know this).

He says he believed to save her from a hit, but someone had already claimed that missing hit in thread. That displayed he was not actually reading properly.


I will be voting both of kingjames and bm for now, and heavily watching the thread to see how the day goes.



I respect your mafia play and I know that you are attempting to draw me into an extended conflict and ruin any chances we have to actually scum-hunt. Because of this, I will concede your twisted interpretation of my play without engaging you directly on that front.

However, I need to point out to everyone that BloodyC0bbler is trying to force me to make excuses. I make none.

But, I will counter you, BC, on this point: what will you have gained when I don't flip red? Where do you go next?

My final assertion to the Town is as follows: I have been attempting to draw a hit during the Night.

I have been a continued voice of reason rather than a seeder of dissension. I have pointed out logical inconsistencies between words and actions. I have ensured that if I were to be shot at night, that my suspects will be known.

I don't need to be the loudest or the most active player, as long as my presence cannot be erased easily.

In essence, my game plan all along has been to force the mafia to silence me.

It is my duty and honour to soak up a shot so that our scum hunters and power roles can continue to work unfettered. Factor that into your analysis of me.

Now that it is obvious that the mafia is attempting to mislynch me today rather than to shoot me at night I must change tacks and point out that my actions have all been pro-Town. Indeed, I am Town-aligned.

That is what matters here.

Vote for p4NDemik.


shouldn't blueclaiming be a meassure of last resort? chillax. you got a few votes on you, there's some other candidates and BM is virtually dead.

if you're really town, you already gave scum a minor victory, just cause you freaked out...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 22:29 GMT
#2715
Hey guys, here’s some info on VE.
Loosely based on a true story….err…I mean that case here:
On January 16 2012 06:12 GiygaS wrote:
Before I begin, I was definitely leaning town on him until now, where my opinion of him has changed. He seemed very pro-town, and scumhunting at the beginning, but slowly, he degraded, let me show you how.
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 02:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 14 2012 02:10 rgTheSchworz wrote:
If I was red, wouldn't I say that PRIVATELY?To then kill him at night?

Anyway, I was just fishing for info.


WIFOM with a dash of CONFIRMING THAT YOU WERE ROLE-FISHING?

You're right - scum can't be this bad.

Don't role-fish. It's what scum do to try and find blue roles to kill at night. Try and find scum, not our blue roles. They'll do their job without you cheering them on because you found them.

-.-

Great post.
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 03:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Something seems wrong...
I didn't autoscum :O

Speaking of auto-scum
##Vote MrWiggles


This is the post BM is pushing as Cyber_Cheese trying to "force a mislynch"

This post is very obviously a joke based on site-meta...Mr. Wiggles rolls scum A LOT and I for one giggled when CC posted this. Anyone who says BM's case on CC trying to "force a mislynch" of Mr. Wiggles is assuming 2 things:

1) CC was serious about that vote, and
2) Mr. Wiggles is automatically town.

Both of these things are ridiculous to assume at this point in the game. I'm inclined to believe Mr. Wiggles is town based on his posts myself, but when CC had posted this, and subsequently when BM called him scum for it, Wiggles hadn't posted ANYTHING.

If anything, I'd say it makes BM suspicious for knowing that Wiggles is town and CC was pushing a "mislynch".

Think, guys.

Great post again.

Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
BC, I consider your claim to be scummy for this reason: you're essentially leveraging your role to win you this election. Discuss.

Now we're getting somewhere. Notice that this is a contradiction on his part, as he himself uses his role to put himself in a spot for election.
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
BC, are you for or against a mass-mason claim? I like the idea behind the discussion this is generating, but I'd like your opinion as much as you'd like everyone else's opinion.

Personally, I'm torn on the mass-mason claim. It makes sense in that Mafia will be put to the decision to either kill them or let them mason away...but with their own masons, it seems to me like they'll probably avoid killing them as to not draw any attention to THEIR masons (by them surviving).

Yay! Neutrality. BTW, one post later (in his filter), he decides that mass claim would be a good idea.

Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
JJ wut up dawg, you rollin wit me? I'll make you my Minister of Slips or Secretary of TownCred...both positions are vacant up in this piece. :D

WBG: Are you like, convinced of Palmar's guilt? His play has been null as fuck if you discount any meta, which is what I've forced myself to do at this point. It's D1 after all, and there are better D1 lynches in my opinion.

Another contradiction. For those that didn't know, he was one of the first to attack Palmar based on meta, and even made it part of his campaign to lynch him. He then changes his opinion AGAIN when questioned. He goes from: my campaign is lynching him, to not the best D1 lynch, to yeah, let's fucking lynch him.

Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Daykill: Cyber_Cheese

That's right motherfuckers, I'm the Town Jack. CyberCheese is pushing his scum candidate BC, who needs to NOT be mayor. You asshats need to unvote BC if CC flips scum and whoever is mayor needs to lynch me if he flips town.

Tired of this shit.

Jitsu masoned me, and was trying to get me to comment on BC/Protract. I think he's scum too.

Also on my list of scum is Palmar, for obvious reasons.

Yeah bitches, he doesn't just accuse those who accuse him, he tries to daykill them. Oh yeah.

Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 06:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Seriously guys this is all hands on deck. I'm very town and I'm very Jack. I need to be mayor.

VOTES ON VE GOGOGO

This isn't me trying to leverage my role to win the election - if I wanted to do that I would have done that already and not called BC out on it right after his claim. This is me trying to keep one of our most powerful roles IN THE GAME. I'm not going to do anymore stupid shit if you elect me.

...yes it is.
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 06:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
L, I'll prove I'm Jack by shooting tonight and Masoning you tomorrow then. That's my plan.

This would waste his role completely.
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 17:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
@GiygaS

I listen to you bro. Remember that game where you and Palmar fucked me up as mafia? His play was spectacular that game...he really convinced me he was a townie when I was calling for his HEAD D2. You played the fallguy to a T, not outting him at all. I was thoroughly impressed, and I'm not the only one.

Palmar doesn't do shit like that anymore. When you left, Palmar's play took a SHARP turn for the worse, and he's lucky to live past D2 these days. I thought he was scum all game too...especially when he still vouched for me for office.

I guess my point is, I think you're barking up the wrong tree where WBG is concerned. Here's how you handle that guy.

@WBG
Would you link to the most recent game where you were town and Palmar was scum?

@Cyber_Cheese
Would you point to a post with content that Palmar made during D1 that wasn't within 30 minutes of the lynch please? Failing that, could you stfu about WBG's meta-only case on Palmar?

I'm going to feel really bad for saying this... But I can't tell if you're being genuine, or you're just trying to cater to emotions. Reminder that I'm only saying this because I need to be as objective as possible in Mafia. >.<

Finally, his slightly spammy play (6 pages already, and a lot of it is just discussing flavor of the page shit).


Have u skipped it? Go read it.

This case was made by GiygaS shortly before he deceased. Unfortunately, it got buried because Wiggles started his well-intended Mason circle plan.

He also got called out in the same night by kita, who was also shot. (I know, I know, WIFOM, I’ll shut up)

His jack claim was balantly stupid, trying to “prove it” is even stupider because of it’s two times only use.

And only to recap this post is what the “daykill” entirely was about:

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2012 04:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On January 15 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
and re. I'll be voting BM right now. d1 (like RL-d1) I thought it's the most horrible thing possible but he gives me townvibes.
There's no way I will vote for sandro, bc or bum because I think either 1 or 2 out of them is scum and the mafia out of those is trying to screw with me / us.
I just don't want to vote into that triangle of I-don't-know.

wbg would be an alternative but I've got more of an stubborn-palmar read than a useless-palmar read and I'd like to lynch someone else d1. If possible someone who's not a vet and leave palmar for d2.

Wiggles and kita didn't say a lot lately so although I (somehow) got a townfeeling out of that much nothing I'd much rather vote someone else.
Mattchew and VE a re both town but I'd rather have someone else in that position imo.
Oh and everyone who got no mention either is hard to judge for me or is not worth a mention. Deal with it :p

Still catching up. I'm reading the last 2 pages, I'm eating and I will post a little bit more if needed.

I'll take that as me being too awesome for your judgement or something.

I'd like to hear from Foolishness now.
What made it seem like a good idea to make Mattchew run for mayor, over equally active people she had more history with? Why is she interested in controlling Bill Murray?

actually yeah. I have no idea what you're up to at this point in time. I'm going to quote from my sheet:
7. Cyber_Cheese
I haven o idea
no idea at all

I tried several times to get something about you going but I never was able to put something into words. You're like THE nullread I have in this game and I don't know why I have so much trouble to figure you out. Want to to me a faver and tell me real fast who you want to lynch and who's the best mayor in your opinion (other than yourself) ?
I don't really want to read your filter again right now

Mayor, I honestly have no idea. I was pretty close to going for Mattchew after he explained how he got to choosing Foolishness. I suppose BC doesn't seem like the bad choice people make him out to be, I feel like he's explained his plan enough.
Lynch... Probably VisceraEyes or Risk.Nuke, for starting a mayorial campaign and giving up on it.


“Probably VisceraEyes or Risk.Nuke, for starting a mayorial campaign and giving up on”

Wait what, how does this justify a daykill by any means, without any accusations beforehand whatsoever?? If you’re town, you don’t handle stuff this way. And if you do, don’t blueclaim at the same time. Bullshit.

Don’t believe that it was actually this OMGUS? Look at the posts before his daykillclaim pages 56-57-58. No indication of anything at all. Then boom goes the dynamite.

He continues to make a case out of the OMGUS here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=69#1364
But you can just sense that it’s OMGUS. If you don’t believe me, examine this case.

Speaking of OMGUS:
On January 19 2012 12:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Watch Us!
BC has spent all day with Protact in PMs…and the only thing he's done since then has been to direct the medics to two players - out of forty-some. Has there been any fruits of their labors? Hopefully we find out during D3. If not, BC is playing us false. WATCH HIM!

BM surprised everyone D2 with his choice of incarceration. Lanaia? Really? What was the reason again? Oh that's right - to lower scum KP when that wasn't even possible. Oh wait…it was to keep her from roleblocking. He also scumslipped that there are 2 mafia masons. He's scum. I say lynch him, but if you're unable to do that, WATCH HIM!

Sandroba spent most of D1 trolling in spite of being a lynch candidate. Considered Protact's lynch choice of Ciry to be "the best thing to hit the thread" in spite of it being pretty weak at the time. Protact insists that scum wouldn't drudge up buried analysis - I say that Sandroba absolutely would. If you can't lynch this one, WATCH HIM!

Scamp has spent the majority of the game criticizing others' play. My problem with this is that his play has been nothing to write home about. His advice is "Stop relying on meta." My advice is WATCH HIM!

Lanaia continues to be wishywashy about everything and everyone. Force her to commit to reads and WATCH HER!

Lynch Us!
Jackal has spent most of the game doing…………suddenly got a hair up his ass to lynch me for……………..and that's all he's done. LYNCH HIM!

JayJay has wanted to lynch me since my retard-claim D1. But when discussion about me died, so did JayJay's suspicion of me. He seems to only be suspicious of who's the most suspicious at the time. LYNCH HIM!

Kenpachi….is Kenpachi. His one-liners are not helping town and serve only to keep him from being mod-killed. LYNCH HIM!

He OMGUS jackal because of this ONE post here.
On January 19 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2012 10:01 Jackal58 wrote:
On January 19 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Step up and lead town then Jackal! You've got my sword!

Go blow your scumshine up somebody elses skirt.


I'm just excited because my wife finally procured some [REDACTED] and it's a good motha****** day. But whatever.

He OMGUS me, without any case at all (not counting macpos ). And I didn’t even attack him that much, just mentioned that he is suspicious to me a couple of times.

Finally, he claimed again. This time, he was shot.
On January 19 2012 12:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Something doesn't feel right.

BM didn't incarcerate L.
Toad got shot.
I got shot.

Bill needs to get in here and tell us who he incarcerated. I'm totally not ruling out the possibility that a vig tried to shoot Toad, but that means that there are only 3 Mafia KP...which means that Bill incarcerated scum last night.

I don't know...something smells fishy.


I actually agree with him here, something’s fishy.

Explanation A) He IS in fact a jack and mafia shot him, which kind of puts a bad light on toad.

Explanation B) Mafia shot Toad and he is falsely claiming. Toad doesn’t seem like a good target from a scum perspective, since he was a lynch candidate. WIFOM possible.

I don’t know how to feel about this. So tell me! What do you guys think about that?


Other than that VE’s filter is full of one liners and random questions.

No case at all (except of CC) and no indications of scumhunting!

Also, let’s take a at VE’s voting on day three.

VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: Sandroba
##Vote: BloodyC0bbler
##Unvote: BloodyC0bbler
##Vote: Bill Murray
##Unvote: Sandroba
##Vote: kingjames01
##Unvote: kingjames01
##Vote: supersoft
##Unvote: Bill Murray
##Unvote: supersoft
##Vote: p4Ndemik
##Unvote: p4Ndemik
##Vote: p4Ndemik


Looks more like a shell game than actually trying to achieve something.

“Hey I am town, I voted for scum at some point.” Yay.
"Hey I am scum and I confuse everyone because I switch my votes every 12 seconds". Yay.

He also voted for all 3 top mayor candidates plus WBG. Surprise. Oh and he advised against a DL, then promotes it. He’s the ultimate Chamaeleon, he blends in everywhere!

FTR: I still think, we have better targets today and I'll stick to my votes for know, but watch him closely, because he is either

SCUM-VE or OMGUS-Chamaeleon-Man, half OMGUS, half Chamaeleon, half man.

Dumdumduuuum

Oh and inb4 OMGUS.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 22:37 GMT
#2717
and why is that
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 23:40 GMT
#2727
First of all, I assumed that mafia actually had 3 KP. I was wrong, so 2 hits are missing and my case was wrong in that regard

This helps your defense a lot bro. 2 Shots missing, 2 Shots claimed. If there was no stacking, you're good...

I still answer you:

[QUOTE]On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well - I certainly took responsibility for the Palmar lynch, in spite of having ample opportunity to blame WBG for the whole mess. And while superficially it could be argued that I was on-board with the Macpo lynch, I understand that in no way cleanses my erratic behavior. However, my posting has been pretty transparently town, which is what Bum I assume is referring to with his post. I suppose you think my claim was some kind of insane gambit that L and I cooked up for me to get elected? Is that what you want to bring to the table Jayjay?
[QUOTE]

95% were for a macpo lynch. Or at least didn’t mind it.
Your posts have no direction whatsoever to me. You do no cases, you don’t stick to your opinions, you OMGUS (hey, you didn’t omgus me, good for you!), you vote like 40 times. Like I said, you may actually be indecisive and post a lot without actually making cases, or you could be scum trying to appear townish.

[QUOTE]On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
I get that my play has been erratic - but if you want to point a finger, do it with some feeling JayJay. What, don't want to be the first on the wagon or something? Afraid of voting for me when you don't know what the GENERAL CONSENSUS is of my play?[/QUOTE]

I don’t think it’s good for the town, if you are afraid to call somebody out, because “the general consensus” doesn’t agree. I am like the only one consistently calling BC scum. That should be allowed and even if I am wrong, other train of thoughts are nourishing for town. So no, I am not afraid of that.
Your play has not been very good yet, feel free to improve it. Right now we have the huge priority target BM and I’ll stick GGQ, because I think he’s scum and his lynch will give us information which we need.

[QUOTE]On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'll take your case seriously when you can prove that I have mafia intentions, and you vote for me. Until then, keep your silly theories to yourself JayJay. All you've proven to town is that VE is playing like a crazy person. Raise your hand if that surprises you everyone.
[/QUOTE]

This is my first game ever, so I don’t know how crazy you normally play.

I certainly do know, that BM is lynched right now for the same thing, playing crazy. And not helping town. Sounds familiar. Again, feel free to step up man. you can make a case about me, about jackal, add something to the p4n case, don’t care, but contribute.

No theories about L or whatever involved.

[QUOTE]On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
But I'm town, and I'm super serious now. I think the case on kingjames is decent - but his response to the case was much better than p4N's reaction to KJ's case. By far. It could be experience. It could be something more sinister. I'm just after the truth, and ultimately you'll find that's what this has ALL been about for me.[/QUOTE]

I don’t like the kingjames case as much, but whatever. That’s a town decision. I’ll be on GGQ since I believe, he’s the better target overall.


VE, please step up and prove that you were just the ultimate

OMGUS-Chamaeleon-Man. I’ll continue to watch you...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 23:41 GMT
#2728
why the fuck? how can quote tags not work when they show up in the preview
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 19 2012 23:57 GMT
#2732
must have deleted it while reediting. here's for better reading

First of all, I assumed that mafia actually had 3 KP. I was wrong, so 2 hits are missing and my case was wrong in that regard

This helps your defense a lot bro. 2 Shots missing, 2 Shots claimed. If there was no stacking, you're good...

I still answer you:

On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well - I certainly took responsibility for the Palmar lynch, in spite of having ample opportunity to blame WBG for the whole mess. And while superficially it could be argued that I was on-board with the Macpo lynch, I understand that in no way cleanses my erratic behavior. However, my posting has been pretty transparently town, which is what Bum I assume is referring to with his post. I suppose you think my claim was some kind of insane gambit that L and I cooked up for me to get elected? Is that what you want to bring to the table Jayjay?


95% were for a macpo lynch. Or at least didn’t mind it.
Your posts have no direction whatsoever to me. You do no cases, you don’t stick to your opinions, you OMGUS (hey, you didn’t omgus me, good for you!), you vote like 40 times. Like I said, you may actually be indecisive and post a lot without actually making cases, or you could be scum trying to appear townish.

On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
I get that my play has been erratic - but if you want to point a finger, do it with some feeling JayJay. What, don't want to be the first on the wagon or something? Afraid of voting for me when you don't know what the GENERAL CONSENSUS is of my play?


I don’t think it’s good for the town, if you are afraid to call somebody out, because “the general consensus” doesn’t agree. I am like the only one consistently calling BC scum. That should be allowed and even if I am wrong, other train of thoughts are nourishing for town. So no, I am not afraid of that.
Your play has not been very good yet, feel free to improve it. Right now we have the huge priority target BM and I’ll stick GGQ, because I think he’s scum and his lynch will give us information which we need.

On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'll take your case seriously when you can prove that I have mafia intentions, and you vote for me. Until then, keep your silly theories to yourself JayJay. All you've proven to town is that VE is playing like a crazy person. Raise your hand if that surprises you everyone.


This is my first game ever, so I don’t know how crazy you normally play.

I certainly do know, that BM is lynched right now for the same thing, playing crazy. And not helping town. Sounds familiar. Again, feel free to step up man. you can make a case about me, about jackal, add something to the p4n case, don’t care, but contribute.

No theories about L or whatever involved.

On January 20 2012 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
But I'm town, and I'm super serious now. I think the case on kingjames is decent - but his response to the case was much better than p4N's reaction to KJ's case. By far. It could be experience. It could be something more sinister. I'm just after the truth, and ultimately you'll find that's what this has ALL been about for me.


I don’t like the kingjames case as much, but whatever. That’s a town decision. I’ll be on GGQ since I believe, he’s the better target overall.


VE, please step up and prove that you were just the ultimate

OMGUS-Chamaeleon-Man. I’ll continue to watch you...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 00:08 GMT
#2735
On January 20 2012 09:02 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:
I start to agree that we should still lynch GGQ.
Mafia don't send out reminders that they defended mafia.
Mafia also don't ask to be vigged, since they can't influence vigs, but they certainly can influence lynches.
Nobody lynch him today, keke?


The mayor point here is that protact says "no mafia would do such a thing". Here's the point: Townies won't do such a thing as well. The post we're talking about has NOTHING in it to determine his alignment. Yes Mafia won't ask to be vigged, neither will townies. It's bad for both.
The only thing of interest should be portacts first line. As mentioned I only have 15mins left and I can't look in his filter right now. Of someone pointed out GGQ is defending macpo before GGQ made that post that line is useless as well.

fancy conclusion:
This is not a alignment-tell. It is, if at all a nooby-tell. The question should be: Is he really a town-nooby or is he a mafia willing to look like a nooby to not have a mafia stamp on his forehead.
Furthermore we can't allow these kind of things. Same goes to BM. If we treat those posts as legitimate defences because "hey look, no mafia would post a such a thing" we're opening a bottomless pit because we're allowing every mafia to just post something along the lines "hey sry, wasn't my best game, you probably should just lynch me to see if I'm bad or mafia to get over this discussion".
Who's able to tell the difference between lurkers who are told by their mafia buddies to make a post like this and lurkers who really are just bad? Sure the moment someone like BC would post something like that I'd want to see him hanging but we're talking about new guys here. I'll also look into his filter later on, however:
Next guy who does a post like that is to be lynched imo


is it just me or did my post here get ignored completly? I thought GGQ might be a hot topic and therefore I expected to get some answers on that one, no matter if good or bad.
I still don't think what protact pointed out is a tell at all and that it's not a solid defence. What's everyone elses opinion on what I posted in there?


well, I tried to lynch him d2, my vote is on him d3. so feel free to join me
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 00:16 GMT
#2736
On January 20 2012 09:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not an OMGUS anything, and this is the n'th time you've insisted that.

OMGUS is a term that applies exclusively...EXCLUSIVELY JAYJAY...to X who's attacking Y based solely on the fact that Y attacked X. I posted my case on Cheese, while the fact that he attacked me was mentioned, it was far from the actual meat of my argument - you need to stop calling it OMGUS because you're either mistaken or misrepresenting - but wrong in any case. My case on Cheese was what I felt at the time. He's changed my mind slightly, mainly based on the way he was generating conversation during the night after that lynch...but my case was serious and very NOT just OMGUS.


yea, I don't see it. So, I'll just continue to insist that I already responded to your cc case that it's weak and that I was 100% sure that you wouldn't have made that case, if it wasn't for him attacking you. It felt like you made that case for the sole purpose to justify your OMGUS.

Your attack on me was based on nothing except on me attacking you. No case to be seen.

Your attack on jackal as well. No case to be seen.

Next you put somebody on lynch me! list, make sure to have other arguements than "he voted me and then he stopped voting me", or "he voted me" or "he used to agree with me, now he votes me". You have to ask yourself as a townie, if it is possible for other townies to perceive you maybe in another light than you intend them to. This doesn't necessarily mean they are scum.

I don't know if you fakeclaimed jack, I don't know if you fakeclaimed the shot. But it is a possibility to me.

Try to contribute in a sane manner, maybe my perception changes and then you just have to try to not call me scum for that. If it doesn't, I'll stride on to add more to your case.


Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 00:31 GMT
#2744
On January 20 2012 08:38 GGQ wrote:
The second vote is trickier, I'm considering supersoft and p4ndemic, but I'm not enthusiastic about lynching kingjames. No one seems to have noted that cyber_cheese's activity level is sharply decreased this day phase, which only furthers my suspicions of him.?


I'll just point out this softdefend right here.

Might get handy.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 00:59 GMT
#2749
On January 20 2012 09:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
He put me on his watch list. I put him on my LYNCH list...because I think he's scum, and because I want him lynched. The only reason I don't have a vote on him is because he's VERY NOT on any of the influential townies' radar yet. YET. I have a feeling he'll be up there soon enough though.


man, I thought you weren't omgsing seriously. this is a OMGUS. there is literally no case.

If you say something like that, you must have a case or at least an arguement backed up. "I think he is scum" is not an arguement.

then I can say something about what you've written and we're good. or we're not.

and I am not on townies radar yet, because only macpo made a case. there is no other feel free to make one. generating discussions only helps town.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 12:26 GMT
#2857
On January 20 2012 18:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I feel like double lynching tomorrow would be good.
We get a lot of new information with the lynches and nk's, and the sooner we kill mafia, the sooner their kp is lowered.
##Vote Double Lynch


Reading is a good skill toi have
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 15:23 GMT
#2873
On January 20 2012 04:32 kingjames01 wrote:
I have one last thing up my sleeve but I will see how the day goes before I use it.


well KJ, now is the time.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 17:09 GMT
#2882
On January 21 2012 02:04 glurio wrote:
Also i'm claiming Mason.


then you surely will have some logs to actually provide some content to your beloved town?

A log would help a lot to figure you out
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 22:32 GMT
#3023
so I come back after a few beers and a heavy defeat of bayern munich.

and all of a sudden everyone switched to sandro? without any new information? I don't really get it.

I also don't get all those KJ votes, not because I think he's town, but GGQ seems so much better right now. meapak, I got your back on this one.

this post made me mad:

On January 21 2012 04:31 Protactinium wrote:
OH I'm being bombed. Lol. Voting Sandroba. Even if BM is mafia we have plenty of other good targets.

Also please stop voting people who are not on my list. WBG is a non-sensical lynch.
supersoft is likewise.
the people still voting for GGQ are ...
ima look at the vote lists later when i get out of class.


"all right, GGQ is cool guys, I figured it out. Everyone who is still voting him is a retard." so condescending.

wtf? GGQ lurks hardcore and he is instantly connected to chaos who is lurking as well. We would get an additional lynch right now. this gives us plenty to lower scum KPs. How on earth is that a bad lynch, just because you find one post to defend him. And honestly, to me that post was a last resort meassure to at least take a vig hit instead of just being lynched.

How is that KJ case better in any way? What information do we get if he flips green?

I will switch to sandro from BM however. I don't believe his hatter claim, but I don't know his meta well and I'll have to rely on your judgement on this one.

=> As I posted one hundred times: I believe, exactly ONE of sandro or BC is scum. So either you're cleared BC and you have my 96% trust all game long from know on or I'll be on your ass!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 22:41 GMT
#3028
On January 21 2012 07:35 vaderseven wrote:
The problem I have with this meta thing defending BM is that no matter what it can be brought up.

I also just can't believe how much freedom he is being given after posting that he thought he was hours from death and that he has a bomb on exactly one player who happens to be the guy that is outing scum left and right.

Doesnt that just STINK?????????


well he was number one on his lynch lynch lynch list right before he submitted the first night action.

so even if it's not a good read imo, it is in line of what he thought or wanted us to think he thought:

On January 15 2012 21:52 Bill Murray wrote:
Town
supersoft
Cyber_Cheese
Toadesstern
Adam4167
Foolishness
Nisani201
EchelonTee
Jayjay54
L
Liquid`Sheth
kitaman27
BloodyC0bbler
Kurumi
p4NDemik
Meapak_Ziphh
wherebugsgo

Dont want to lynch:
VisceraEyes
Jitsu
Mr. Wiggles
~OpZ~
Ciryandor
Jackal58
hiro protagonist
GiygaS
BrownBear

Where have you been? Wouldn't mind lynching these lurkers:
igabod
zeks
evantrees
Chaosquo
Cwave
Slardar
rgTheSchworz
Scamp
glurio
rtgICEMAN
Maxella
blahz0r
GGQ

Lynch, Lynch, Lynch!:
Protactinium (Mystlord/Incognito)
sandroba
risk.nuke
Munk-E
scumatlarge
Lanaia
Macpo
Mafia

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 22:58 GMT
#3038
Also guys, I know you love guys who make lists <3. So I went and created a sorted version of the filters for you to bookmark. It annoyed me to look in that 50 player list and not finding the one I was looking for. enjoy.

+ Show Spoiler +
~OpZ~
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=15805

Adam4167
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=192320

Bill Murray
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=54241

blahz0r
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=131034

BloodyC0bbler
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=10200

BrownBear
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=62737

bumatlarge
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=31777

Chaosquo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=58961

Ciryandor (Mafia Goon, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=75664

Cwave replaced Refallen2
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=232648

Cyber_Cheese
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=87276

EchelonTee
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=152817

evantrees
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=78429

Foolishness
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=47499

GGQ
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=38664

GiygaS (Townie, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=103575

glurio replaced d3_crescentia
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=68375

hiro protagonist replaced Erandorr
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=43447

igabod
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=238699

Jackal58
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=124528

Jayjay54
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=125084

Jitsu
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=187886

Kenpachi
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=51151

kingjames01
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=46546

kitaman27
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=46535

Kurumi (Vigilante, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=68386

L
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=34082

Lanaia
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=154975

Liquid`Sheth
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=62163

Macpo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=109901

Mattchew (Mason, Day 1 Modkill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=129423

Maxella
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=244025

Meapak_Ziphh
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=82024

Mr. Wiggles (Townie, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=99050

Munk-E
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=87525

Nisani201
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=105586

p4NDemik
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=33584

Palmar (Miller, Day 1 Lynch)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=87086

Protactinium (Mystlord/Incognito)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=80670

rgTheSchworz
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=128099

risk.nuke
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=76576

rtgICEMAN
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=128097

sandroba
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=21688

Scamp
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40458

Slardar
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=66574

supersoft
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=64722

Toadesstern
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40853

VisceraEyes
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=117978

wherebugsgo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=60039

zeks
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=30909



Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 23:05 GMT
#3042
On January 21 2012 07:56 blahz0r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 07:07 Foolishness wrote:
On January 21 2012 07:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On January 21 2012 06:51 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously these three are beyond reason right now. This is super fucking fishy.

Ok ok ok everyone hold your horses. We'd all like to hear a coherent case out of the triumvirate. However let's not let things get blown out of porportion. Yes, we'd all like them just to spell it out, yes we are frustrated at their collective inability to explain wtf is going on. However now is not the time for veiled attacks on their credibility. This is the kinda thing I called out opz (still scum btw) for. We can be frustrated but it's not necessary to start spreading doubt yet. If they can't get their shit together by the lynch and the lynch falls apart and one or two townies die then we can start calling for some heat. Until then let's give them an oppertunity to respond to our requests. I think we (and by we I once again mean the recently active people) have made it clear what we need to hear. Let's not go overboard and start heaving accusations till we've heard their responses.

I think we're all blowing this out of proportion and thinking too hard about this.

Why are we saying let's not kill BM? Well what if he is a hatter and telling the truth? We not only killed a townie but lost our best scumhunter as well.

Do I think it's likely BM is telling the truth? No, but it's a possibility. Is town in a desperate situation where we need to take chances? No

If BM is mafia, then mafia will not kill Incog cause they want to keep BM from getting lynched. That's okay cause Incog can stay around to find the rest of the mafia team. If the mafia do decide to kill Incog, then we can go straight ahead and kill BM, and I will not ask questions lol

This isn't supposed to be complicated. We don't need to be taking chances at this point so why bother?

Incog and BC have both been suspicious of sandroba, and sandroba has yet to contribute all game so we have decided to go with that. Do I think there are better lynches than sandroba? Yes. But that's okay because sandroba fits the theme. I'm not going to sit and argue for better targets, it's important that we are all on the same page. Incog and BC know who I think is mafia, and that will be the starting point for tomorrow's lynch.


What chances? If he was a mad hatter, why would he waste putting a bomb on someone who has and still is actively finding mafia. His bombs would be better used on these other mafia targets that you have all believed to be mafia.

To me he went from "oh I don't have much time and effort so whatevers" to "oh I'm gonna kill our scum hunter if you lynch me lols". WTF is this ?

I'm voting Bill Murray, this looks like bullshit to me.


BM claims a story as following:

a) he thought protact was scum n1. Tbh, protact wasn't as established as he is now with his scum finds. in my previous post you'll find a list that states that.

b) he forgot to submit any n2 actions which is why there is no second bomb and he didn't remove his first.

I don't know if I should believe that, but it isn't completely unbelievable. The risk is really high. If he sticks to his story, he'll remove the bomb n3 and place somewhere better. Then, town can decide again on d4 if we want that lynch.

If he doesn't remove the bomb, well, he's lynched.

so it just makes sense to postpone his lynch even though he might be buying time. risk vs reward + scenario analysis.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 23:08 GMT
#3045
On January 21 2012 08:05 jaj22 wrote:
Ugh, long day. On the plus side, I now have loads of people that I want to kill:

GGQ: Still alive. Still dodging modkills.

Kingjames01: Changed my mind on him. He's been trying to wind people up all day and his posting is generally anti-town. There are valid reasons for scum to make weak anti-L posts in the situation.

Sandroba: I wanted him to start posting at his Mini Mafia X level. He produced one drunken one-liner in three days. White flag stuff.

Bill Murray: Only reason not to kill him is that allegedly he always plays this badly. Great. Still, if Protact doesn't want to kill him today then I'll respect that because it's his ass on the potential bomb.

Also a bunch of lurkers and near-lurkers. If Chaosquo shows up while I'm still conscious then I may switch to him.

Voting Kingjames01 and Sandroba because lynching GGQ is information-free. Voting double lynch for obvious reasons.



how is a GGQ lynch information free? if he flips red, chaos is red too. I don't see how a KJ or BM lynch provides more information.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 23:10 GMT
#3049
I missed our newest replacement vader. sorry. here you go <3

+ Show Spoiler +
~OpZ~
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=15805

Adam4167
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=192320

Bill Murray
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=54241

blahz0r
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=131034

BloodyC0bbler
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=10200

BrownBear
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=62737

bumatlarge
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=31777

Chaosquo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=58961

Ciryandor (Mafia Goon, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=75664

Cwave replaced Refallen2
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=232648

Cyber_Cheese
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=87276

EchelonTee
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=152817

evantrees
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=78429

Foolishness
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=47499

GGQ
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=38664

GiygaS (Townie, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=103575

glurio replaced d3_crescentia
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=68375

hiro protagonist replaced Erandorr
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=43447

igabod
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=238699

Jackal58
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=124528

Jayjay54
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=125084

Jitsu
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=187886

Kenpachi
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=51151

kingjames01
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=46546

kitaman27
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=46535

Kurumi (Vigilante, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=68386

L
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=34082

Lanaia
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=154975

Liquid`Sheth
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=62163

Macpo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=109901

Mattchew (Mason, Day 1 Modkill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=129423

Maxella
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=244025

Meapak_Ziphh
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=82024

Mr. Wiggles (Townie, Night 1 Kill)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=99050

Munk-E
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=87525

Nisani201
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=105586

p4NDemik
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=33584

Palmar (Miller, Day 1 Lynch)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=87086

Protactinium (Mystlord/Incognito)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=80670

rgTheSchworz
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=128099

risk.nuke
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=76576

rtgICEMAN
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=128097

sandroba
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=21688

Scamp
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40458

Slardar
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=66574

supersoft
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=64722

Toadesstern
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40853

vaderseven
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=39803

VisceraEyes
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=117978

wherebugsgo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=60039
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 23:15 GMT
#3053
oh BM and we know now that you read my post,

so better remove that protact bomb or you definitely will be punished. You can't threaten him twice.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 20 2012 23:22 GMT
#3056
wow someone really voted vanilla and without a post:

QUOTE]On January 21 2012 07:39 Slardar wrote:
##Vote: GGQ
##Vote: KingJames01
[/QUOTE]

Slardar protip: if you see your name popping up on more and more scum lists, make sure to not silently vote the most voted players without saying anything.

get your ass in here and say why. and say it with your own words.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 00:03 GMT
#3070
On January 21 2012 08:58 Slardar wrote:
Put an additional Bomb out (if you get to live) imo.


wait why? protact is clearly town so why keep the bomb at him and risk him? There is NOOO benefit whatsover. Unless you say protact is scum.


also @ BM, you don't lose your bomb when you put it on GGQ, since he's already dead then.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 00:08 GMT
#3074
On January 21 2012 09:00 rgTheSchworz wrote:
But GTF off sandro and ggq, cuz BM is SCUM.




wait what? you're suggesting that we unvote GGQ and sandro because you think BM is scum. How is that logical?

I for example have my votes on both of them and I think BM is scummy.

If you look at this post, you'll find an explanation why to note vote BM on d3, but on d4, if he's still suspicious.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 00:10 GMT
#3077
On January 21 2012 09:04 rgTheSchworz wrote:
Forgot ##Vote: Kingjames01 since he is getting lynched no matter what, plus, we'll have info on this Cobbler.


just no. he's not getting lynched no matter what. kingjames is a close one to sandro and ggq.

even if he were, think about that vote a little longer and vote whatever you think it's right. That attitude is horrible.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 00:18 GMT
#3086
On January 21 2012 09:09 p4NDemik wrote:

I don't know how these ghosts of days past are gaining momentum but this makes no sense. We've had no analysis on these people. GGQ should not be close to kingjames at all. I've been successfully relegated to the "he's pro town, but his analysis is bad" zone -_-

Disappointing to see that so many are following sheepishly in this election. For the love of everything that is holy lets rally town. sandroba/GGQ are 2 day old theories that are stale and hollow, without significant analysis today. kingjames, BM, and supersoft have FRESH argumentation, logic, and activity/defenses to judge them on. They are mafia and we cannot let them off the hook lets go!


Oh, so going to lurk mode is now actively protecting you from being lynched? How convenient.

GGQ has done shit to prove his innocence. He posted 3 times in 4 days. Look at the post and tell me that the old theory is wrong now.

Sandro is entirely different....wait....they are not. he did two drunk posts and that's it.

It would be very bad if people can just hide and they get innocent. Furthermore, we'll get like none information out of a KJ lynch, while we do get informatio on GGQ and sandro...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 00:28 GMT
#3095
On January 21 2012 09:23 p4NDemik wrote:
Don't lynch lurkers over people we have made enormous headway in analyzing today.

BM gave up on this game at two different points, and had been expressing an incredible amount of apathy and irrational thought processes up until this play to go for sandroba. This is the last ditch effort of someone who decided he finally wanted to give a shit. Not the defense of genuine town. Throwing this away in favor of going for a lurker sandroba is irresponsible and can give a mafia BM another day to do as he pleases with immunity. Don't allow him this luxury. He has NOT earned it.


alright, I got a scenario for you. He actually IS town, since we are never sure. Then we would not only lose our sheriff, but also our prob best scum hunter. Have you considered that?

People are saying he is playing crazy.

So he should remove his bomb. Then we discuss again.

I think he is scummy too, but there is no real reason to push him that badly, when there a 3 other candidates and protact is on the line here.

again, if you haven't read it:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=153#3042

his story makes sense in a way. It's not really a nice story, but it is not as easy to dismiss.


please think before you push that hard.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 01:10 GMT
#3132
On January 21 2012 09:54 risk.nuke wrote:
Let me tell you what happend.

Scum decided BM was doomed, and decided to just go along with it to avoid suspicion. Which caused a few townies unease because everyone were agreeing on BM (aka seemed to easy). Combination with BM's bullshit-claim, which is just the worlds worst dumbest lie. Because you don't let yourself get elected mayor as a Mad Hatter to begin with1. It's like getting elected when you're a veteran... ONLY MUCH WORSE. The only reason he bloody said it was fearmongering that we might loose protact who was looking pro-town. Comeon If he actually were a mad hatter why on earth would he even had set a bomb on protect2. And do you think he would had missed the damn second night action if he had an that important role?3 LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES, + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

And 15 votes on sandroba. What? Where is the reasoning and logic to support 15 votes. the guy is leading jesus. and you're worried about reds wagoning BM!!4
+ Show Spoiler +

Townies, get of Sandroba or start singing why? Because if sandroba flips town I'll be going after sandroba voters with apocalyptic fury. 5

TLDR: Get the damn votes back on BM & get your damn votes off sandroba or give me a satisfying reason to lynch him.


1 Toad explains it well
2 Because protact was no1 on his lynch list
3 It's stupid, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

=> the risk we take when we vote him today, does not outweigh the cons. A possible mislynch will hit town badly, really badly. So please, for the love of god, lynch him day 4. There are a lot of other candidates.

4 this
On January 20 2012 13:18 sandroba wrote:
`Holy fucking shit gotta read 30+ pages drunk. Be back in a while after I finish.


and this

On January 20 2012 13:44 sandroba wrote:
Holy fucking shigt toadstem every post you make you call me mafia at lest 7 times wtf is wrong with you. I nddv to crash i'll read every \\tihionh tp,prow


were his only post in the last almost three days. yea, you're right, he's the leader every child should grow up to.

5 I'll join you and I'll start with BC.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 01:16 GMT
#3140
"A role is the specific character or ability user a player plays as in a game of Mafia. Roles are at the very least comprised of a role name, any abilities that role may have, and a Win Condition.

The most common roles are Vanilla Townie and Mafia Goon. However, other roles most certainly exist. At the bottom of this page is a quick listing of fairly well-known roles. " - mafia wiki
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 01:17 GMT
#3143
On January 21 2012 10:15 Toadesstern wrote:
ok I take everything back. The problem is framers and millers


millers. yes. framers, pretty unlikely. would be a hero framer...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 10:56 GMT
#3292
Woah guys.

As much asI was all over BC, all fucking game. With sandro flipping red, he basically becomes 96% established townie. I am astonished myself. But I always said, only ONE of sandro or BC is red. Here is way (you seem to have forgotton)

+ Show Spoiler +

[13/01/2012 4:02:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: Yo james
[13/01/2012 4:03:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: I just got a pm saying you masoned me
[13/01/2012 4:03:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[13/01/2012 4:04:09 AM] Sandro Maculan: going to bed ttyl
[13/01/2012 11:57:17 AM] james: rawrrrrr
[13/01/2012 11:57:22 AM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 11:57:33 AM] james: i wasn't up at like 4am, its all good
[13/01/2012 11:57:39 AM] james: i sent my pm and went to bed
[13/01/2012 1:19:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: hey you there?
[13/01/2012 1:19:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: just woke up
[13/01/2012 1:20:00 PM] james: that I am
[13/01/2012 1:20:15 PM] james: I am now about to shoot myself in the foot, but well, i honestly think its needed
[13/01/2012 1:21:03 PM] Sandro Maculan: ?
[13/01/2012 1:21:07 PM] Sandro Maculan: i need to catch up
[13/01/2012 1:21:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm on page 26
[13/01/2012 1:21:28 PM] james: oh, i am going to be using the mason mechanic
[13/01/2012 1:21:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: why did you choose to mason me so early btw?
[13/01/2012 1:21:31 PM] james: as a way to generate discussion
[13/01/2012 1:21:32 PM] james: tbh
[13/01/2012 1:21:41 PM] james: you are one of the few people I talk to frequently in games
[13/01/2012 1:21:42 PM] james: or about games
[13/01/2012 1:21:45 PM] james: in the last 6 months
[13/01/2012 1:21:55 PM] james: of anyone else you will have a better read on me than most
[13/01/2012 1:22:17 PM] Sandro Maculan: well you are a tricky one for me to read tbh
[13/01/2012 1:22:25 PM] Sandro Maculan: I somehow always think you are mafia
[13/01/2012 1:22:30 PM] james: most people do
[13/01/2012 1:22:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: unless you are not
[13/01/2012 1:22:32 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[13/01/2012 1:22:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: this game I'm leaning town on you so far -_-
[13/01/2012 1:23:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: based on something silly tbh
[13/01/2012 1:23:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: like when i was typing my post of mayor campaign
[13/01/2012 1:23:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: you wrote something similar
[13/01/2012 1:24:04 PM] Sandro Maculan: like "mafia I'm comming for you"lol
[13/01/2012 1:24:18 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 1:24:19 PM] james: well
[13/01/2012 1:24:24 PM] james: im pretty sure the post im writing now
[13/01/2012 1:24:32 PM] james: will make people far easier to read
[13/01/2012 1:24:37 PM] james: including myself
[13/01/2012 1:24:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: k let me read the thread brb
[13/01/2012 1:25:18 PM] james: i havent put it up yet
[13/01/2012 1:25:25 PM] james: but as I am doing it
[13/01/2012 1:25:26 PM] james: im claiming mason in thread
[13/01/2012 1:25:33 PM] james: not revealing that i mason'd to you yet however
[13/01/2012 1:25:46 PM] james: I am doing it purely to generate discussion and primarily get people like foolishness
[13/01/2012 1:25:50 PM] james: or palmar, etc...
[13/01/2012 1:25:53 PM] james: all the vets
[13/01/2012 1:25:54 PM] james: to post
[13/01/2012 1:25:57 PM] james: they have to
[13/01/2012 1:26:02 PM] james: failure to mucks them badly
[13/01/2012 1:26:17 PM] Sandro Maculan: why hide that you masoned me?
[13/01/2012 1:26:35 PM] james: I'm not claiming it in the post
[13/01/2012 1:26:46 PM] james: im using this post as my claim post
[13/01/2012 1:26:53 PM] james: and will say I mason'd you in a one after it
[13/01/2012 1:26:58 PM] james: which you can confirm
[13/01/2012 1:33:32 PM] james: brb going to check on my foodstuffs
[13/01/2012 1:34:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: k wait mafia can sub in all bgs
[13/01/2012 1:35:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol that fucking sucks
[13/01/2012 1:47:40 PM] james: and now to see how people
[13/01/2012 1:47:41 PM] james: take my claim
[13/01/2012 1:48:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: i can't find in the op
[13/01/2012 1:48:18 PM] Sandro Maculan: how many bgs there will be
[13/01/2012 1:48:21 PM] james: bgs
[13/01/2012 1:48:24 PM] james: there are 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:25 PM] james: it states 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:30 PM] james: and says mafia can sub in
[13/01/2012 1:48:33 PM] Sandro Maculan: i can only see mafia can sub in max 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:35 PM] james: 0 1 or 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[13/01/2012 1:48:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: but where does it say it's 2 total?
[13/01/2012 1:49:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: if it's only 2 that's way too fucking imba
[13/01/2012 1:52:13 PM] james: worked fine in the lounge game
[13/01/2012 1:52:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm going to incorporate jackal's plan
[13/01/2012 1:52:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: seems good
[13/01/2012 1:52:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm going to lynch 1 or 0 bgs
[13/01/2012 1:54:11 PM] james: well, if i dont get elected ill prob be the day 1 lynch now, however
[13/01/2012 1:54:14 PM] james: if i'm not
[13/01/2012 1:54:19 PM] james: mafia get to have fun dealing with me
[13/01/2012 1:55:02 PM] Sandro Maculan: on one hand being mason prob makes you more likely to be mafia
[13/01/2012 1:55:17 PM] james: on the other
[13/01/2012 1:55:19 PM] james: if im town
[13/01/2012 1:55:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: on the other hand mafia isn't likely to claim that shit
[13/01/2012 1:55:27 PM] james: it limits what other masons can do
[13/01/2012 1:55:31 PM] james: as in if i die and flip blue
[13/01/2012 1:55:32 PM] james: other mafia go
[13/01/2012 1:55:41 PM] james: "oh shit if we mason we might die"
[13/01/2012 1:55:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: on an extra third alien hand it's you and you are crazy so who knows
[13/01/2012 1:55:51 PM] james: as i lower the possible pool
[13/01/2012 1:55:54 PM] james: im figuring
[13/01/2012 1:55:59 PM] james: there are 3-4 masons at most
[13/01/2012 1:56:03 PM] james: and at least 1 is red
[13/01/2012 1:56:17 PM] james: by outing myself now
[13/01/2012 1:56:22 PM] james: if i dont get elected
[13/01/2012 1:56:33 PM] james: mafia shooting me becomes annoying as it removes the cover
[13/01/2012 1:56:35 PM] james: they have for their player
[13/01/2012 1:56:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: I dunno about how many masons there are
[13/01/2012 1:56:45 PM] james: it also forces them potentially to waste a frame on me
[13/01/2012 1:56:48 PM] james: i dont know for sure
[13/01/2012 1:56:51 PM] james: im speculateing
[13/01/2012 1:56:55 PM] Sandro Maculan: fw wanted a pm game so maybe there is more
[13/01/2012 1:56:56 PM] james: I know fw took the lounge mafia setup
[13/01/2012 1:56:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: I would think
[13/01/2012 1:57:04 PM] james: and tweaked it slightly
[13/01/2012 1:57:45 PM] james: do you agree it is something people should have actively discussed however? I mean, with only a select group of players being able to pm others
[13/01/2012 1:58:04 PM] james: thats a huge amount of potential issues
[13/01/2012 1:58:06 PM] james: late game
[13/01/2012 1:58:12 PM] james: if its not dealt with early
[13/01/2012 1:58:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: we should keep discussion in thread as much as possible I agree
[13/01/2012 1:58:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: we can bump off ideas here and the post before you off me at night
[13/01/2012 1:59:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[13/01/2012 1:59:19 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 1:59:23 PM] james: why would I off you
[13/01/2012 1:59:36 PM] james: day 1 lynch on a complete asshole
[13/01/2012 1:59:39 PM] james: or scum player
[13/01/2012 2:14:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[13/01/2012 2:14:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: this mason claim looks promissing
[13/01/2012 2:15:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: I think mason mass claim could work
[13/01/2012 2:15:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: mafia will have to claim it if they ever want to use it
[13/01/2012 2:15:43 PM] james: yep
[13/01/2012 2:16:04 PM] Sandro Maculan: and it will generate a lot of discussion
[13/01/2012 2:16:11 PM] james: the discussion is key
[13/01/2012 2:16:14 PM] james: you have to have an opinion on it
[13/01/2012 2:27:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: k I'm caught up
[13/01/2012 2:36:54 PM] james: its an annoying read
[13/01/2012 2:37:00 PM] james: like 6 pages popped up when i went to bed for 6 hours
[13/01/2012 2:41:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: k let's think for a bit
[13/01/2012 2:41:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: what can mafia do if masons massclaim
[13/01/2012 2:42:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: they can claim alongside with the other townies
[13/01/2012 2:42:11 PM] james: fuck ton more scruitiny
[13/01/2012 2:42:13 PM] james: of their actions
[13/01/2012 2:42:20 PM] Sandro Maculan: or hide their mason an never use it
[13/01/2012 2:42:20 PM] james: they can claim to be town
[13/01/2012 2:42:23 PM] james: and never use a mason use
[13/01/2012 2:42:31 PM] james: which prevents them from manipulating behind scenes
[13/01/2012 2:42:32 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[13/01/2012 2:42:36 PM] james: or they claim mason
[13/01/2012 2:42:44 PM] james: and potentially die as everyone will be looking at us
[13/01/2012 2:42:45 PM] james: at all times
[13/01/2012 2:42:48 PM] Sandro Maculan: and honesttly
[13/01/2012 2:42:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck masons
[13/01/2012 2:42:53 PM] james: as they will have the entire mason pool
[13/01/2012 2:42:56 PM] james: pretty much
[13/01/2012 2:43:05 PM] james: potentially there is the chance
[13/01/2012 2:43:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's not that important role to protect it from hits
[13/01/2012 2:43:08 PM] james: that every mason is town
[13/01/2012 2:43:17 PM] james: but how many townies
[13/01/2012 2:43:20 PM] james: can actually use it well?
[13/01/2012 2:43:32 PM] james: its such a high skill required role
[13/01/2012 2:43:33 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah and it's nice and all
[13/01/2012 2:43:36 PM] james: and in its current form
[13/01/2012 2:43:38 PM] james: only benefits mafia
[13/01/2012 2:43:48 PM] Sandro Maculan: but I'd rather lose a mason than any other blue
[13/01/2012 2:44:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: so if mafia wants to waste kp on them be my guest
[13/01/2012 2:44:05 PM] james: pretty much
[13/01/2012 2:44:20 PM] Sandro Maculan: i don't see any drawbacks
[13/01/2012 2:44:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: aside from a possible mason witchunt
[13/01/2012 2:44:35 PM] james: why do people think
[13/01/2012 2:44:36 PM] james: im relying on my role
[13/01/2012 2:44:39 PM] james: to get elected?
[13/01/2012 2:44:42 PM] james: i already stated
[13/01/2012 2:44:45 PM] james: it doesnt matter if i do or dont
[13/01/2012 2:44:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[13/01/2012 2:44:47 PM] james: rofl
[13/01/2012 2:44:53 PM] james: i never once said
[13/01/2012 2:44:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: if you are mafia fuck you
[13/01/2012 2:44:58 PM] james: "im not going to get elected
[13/01/2012 2:45:02 PM] james: vote for me cause im mason"
[13/01/2012 2:45:02 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm almost sure you are town lol
[13/01/2012 2:45:11 PM] james: i do some ballsy shit as red
[13/01/2012 2:45:14 PM] james: i will give that to people
[13/01/2012 2:45:17 PM] james: but out myself
[13/01/2012 2:45:20 PM] james: so blatently
[13/01/2012 2:45:24 PM] james: and fuck my entire team over?
[13/01/2012 2:45:40 PM] james: theres no gain in that as im now so heavily in the spotlight
[13/01/2012 2:45:47 PM] james: i am now more likely to get offed by town
[13/01/2012 2:45:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[13/01/2012 2:45:59 PM] Sandro Maculan: you would prob get elected either way
[13/01/2012 2:46:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: why would you ever do this as mafia
[13/01/2012 2:46:08 PM] james: yea
[13/01/2012 2:46:11 PM] james: also
[13/01/2012 2:46:13 PM] james: cybercheese
[13/01/2012 2:46:15 PM] james: and toad
[13/01/2012 2:46:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[13/01/2012 2:46:17 PM] james: are shifty as fuck
[13/01/2012 2:46:22 PM] james: -_- responses to my
[13/01/2012 2:46:23 PM] james: claim
[13/01/2012 2:46:27 PM] james: are exactly the shit i was hoping for
[13/01/2012 2:46:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: i like the ciryandor case
[13/01/2012 2:46:47 PM] Sandro Maculan: cyber seems shifty too
[13/01/2012 2:46:48 PM] james: i want to see ciryandor post more
[13/01/2012 2:46:50 PM] james: tbh
[13/01/2012 2:46:54 PM] james: because he seems red
[13/01/2012 2:46:57 PM] james: but due to such shitty play
[13/01/2012 2:47:02 PM] james: most likely a red will coach him
[13/01/2012 2:47:03 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm actually okay with toad
[13/01/2012 2:47:06 PM] james: to make him sound not terrible
[13/01/2012 2:47:15 PM] james: and gives me a read on his coach
[13/01/2012 2:47:16 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 2:47:22 PM] james: palmar shouldn't be this apathetic
[13/01/2012 2:47:24 PM] james: as a townie
[13/01/2012 2:47:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: well his saving grace is agreeing with proact
[13/01/2012 2:47:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: which i also agree
[13/01/2012 2:47:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: but yeah he needs to step up
[13/01/2012 2:48:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'll give him time to do it on his own before I push for him
[13/01/2012 2:48:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: he usually gets to posting midway through day1 if he is town
[13/01/2012 2:52:42 PM] james: yea
[13/01/2012 2:52:44 PM] james: this is true
[13/01/2012 3:04:25 PM] Sandro Maculan: brb
[13/01/2012 3:26:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol shit
[13/01/2012 3:26:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: man why don't epople think like i do
[13/01/2012 3:28:57 PM] james: bum saw
[13/01/2012 3:29:05 PM] james: exactly the reason why id be nervous of red masons
[13/01/2012 3:29:07 PM] james: from OP
[13/01/2012 3:29:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: typing a post sec
[13/01/2012 3:41:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: and why is that
[13/01/2012 3:42:13 PM] james: they choose
[13/01/2012 3:42:31 PM] james: if they fail to by end of day 1
[13/01/2012 3:42:34 PM] james: its random'd
[13/01/2012 3:43:08 PM] Sandro Maculan: prb not an issue though
[13/01/2012 3:43:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: why would they ever fail to choose it
[13/01/2012 3:43:32 PM] james: exactly
[13/01/2012 3:43:33 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 3:44:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: i think mafia would prob have their mason(s) selected soon
[13/01/2012 3:45:22 PM] Sandro Maculan: and if this movement gets strong they will quickly mason someone
[13/01/2012 3:46:48 PM] james: yea
[13/01/2012 3:46:50 PM] james: they will have to
[13/01/2012 3:47:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck man i'm liking this plan more and more
[13/01/2012 3:47:43 PM] james: i was thinking on it last night
[13/01/2012 3:47:45 PM] james: and like
[13/01/2012 3:47:50 PM] james: I could die because of it
[13/01/2012 3:47:58 PM] james: but its still so solid
[13/01/2012 3:47:59 PM] james: for town
[13/01/2012 3:48:06 PM] james: my death to fuck mafia in the ass with a rake?
[13/01/2012 3:48:12 PM] james: seems legit trade with 40 townies
[13/01/2012 3:49:14 PM] Sandro Maculan: nah man
[13/01/2012 3:49:28 PM] james: there are enough big namers
[13/01/2012 3:49:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: i won't let anyone important get lynched day1
[13/01/2012 3:49:30 PM] james: in this game
[13/01/2012 3:49:37 PM] james: well i could easily get shot'
[13/01/2012 3:49:38 PM] james: as well
[13/01/2012 3:49:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: look at what happened last huge game
[13/01/2012 3:49:47 PM] james: -_- i was so wrong
[13/01/2012 3:49:49 PM] james: that game
[13/01/2012 3:49:52 PM] james: except on a few gut shot reads
[13/01/2012 3:49:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: mafia raped all vets night 1
[13/01/2012 3:50:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: we have to wait a bit for them to thin out / get medic ' ed etc before going into that pool
[13/01/2012 3:50:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's the best play
[13/01/2012 3:51:39 PM] james: i didnt see any downsides
[13/01/2012 3:51:50 PM] james: then again i could be missing a giant hole somewhere
[13/01/2012 3:59:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: nah I've thought it through
[13/01/2012 4:00:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: there are no holes
[13/01/2012 4:14:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol you seem quite popular now
[13/01/2012 4:19:42 PM] james: haha
[13/01/2012 4:19:43 PM] james: apparently
[14/01/2012 1:24:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: yo
[14/01/2012 1:24:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm back you here?
[14/01/2012 1:24:54 AM] james: yea typing up a post now
[14/01/2012 1:25:21 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm catching up
[14/01/2012 1:25:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: still on page 40
[14/01/2012 1:25:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: and quite drunk
[14/01/2012 1:26:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: wow
[14/01/2012 1:26:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: proactinum thinks you are scum
[14/01/2012 1:26:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: are you mafia?
[14/01/2012 1:26:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: tell me I wont remember tomorrow
[14/01/2012 1:26:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: i promise not to check logs
[14/01/2012 1:27:17 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 1:27:17 AM] james: im not
[14/01/2012 1:27:19 AM] james: protrac
[14/01/2012 1:27:22 AM] james: just outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:27:23 AM] james: hard
[14/01/2012 1:27:23 AM] james: though
[14/01/2012 1:27:27 AM] james: so fucking obvious
[14/01/2012 1:27:41 AM] james: i say this because
[14/01/2012 1:27:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: I really thought he was town though
[14/01/2012 1:27:45 AM] james: if anyone thinks thats mystlord
[14/01/2012 1:27:47 AM] james: they are dumb as hell
[14/01/2012 1:27:48 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 1:27:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: from his frist post and second
[14/01/2012 1:28:03 AM] james: the post against me
[14/01/2012 1:28:05 AM] james: is incog
[14/01/2012 1:28:11 AM] james: and incog is firmly in
[14/01/2012 1:28:15 AM] james: the anti pm bandwagon
[14/01/2012 1:28:15 AM] james: for town
[14/01/2012 1:28:22 AM] Sandro Maculan: no
[14/01/2012 1:28:25 AM] james: no i mean
[14/01/2012 1:28:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is against the anti pm
[14/01/2012 1:28:29 AM] james: if you talk to him
[14/01/2012 1:28:33 AM] james: outside of this game
[14/01/2012 1:28:35 AM] Sandro Maculan: he thinkis you are for it
[14/01/2012 1:28:37 AM] james: he hates pm
[14/01/2012 1:28:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: and thus mafia
[14/01/2012 1:28:45 AM] james: which is how he outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:28:54 AM] james: his belief in people properly using pms
[14/01/2012 1:28:55 AM] james: is fucking horrid
[14/01/2012 1:29:02 AM] james: fw
[14/01/2012 1:29:04 AM] james: and I
[14/01/2012 1:29:06 AM] james: are the top 2 people
[14/01/2012 1:29:08 AM] james: who like pms
[14/01/2012 1:29:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:29:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: this discussion
[14/01/2012 1:29:13 AM] james: in general
[14/01/2012 1:29:15 AM] james: i hate masons
[14/01/2012 1:29:19 AM] Sandro Maculan: is fucking useless day1
[14/01/2012 1:29:21 AM] james: nah
[14/01/2012 1:29:24 AM] james: incog
[14/01/2012 1:29:25 AM] james: just
[14/01/2012 1:29:26 AM] james: outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:29:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: maybe he is mafia for not realising that
[14/01/2012 1:29:31 AM] james: to me anyway
[14/01/2012 1:29:35 AM] james: to me
[14/01/2012 1:29:39 AM] james: thats a hugeeeee
[14/01/2012 1:29:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: vets are going to get shot the fuck out
[14/01/2012 1:29:40 AM] james: bit
[14/01/2012 1:29:41 AM] james: also
[14/01/2012 1:29:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: fast
[14/01/2012 1:29:43 AM] james: adam
[14/01/2012 1:29:45 AM] james: + wbg
[14/01/2012 1:29:48 AM] james: link to protrac
[14/01/2012 1:29:51 AM] james: so does ciryandor
[14/01/2012 1:29:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: ?
[14/01/2012 1:29:57 AM] james: do i think all are red? no
[14/01/2012 1:29:59 AM] james: but they all link
[14/01/2012 1:30:08 AM] james: protrac has done nothing to garner votes
[14/01/2012 1:30:09 AM] james: but tunnel people
[14/01/2012 1:30:09 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:30:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: protact
[14/01/2012 1:30:16 AM] james: first people to jump on his nuts
[14/01/2012 1:30:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: if he is mafia he has balls
[14/01/2012 1:30:20 AM] james: with 0 grounds
[14/01/2012 1:30:23 AM] james: well
[14/01/2012 1:30:25 AM] james: it is incog
[14/01/2012 1:30:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is the most out there mothefucker
[14/01/2012 1:30:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: you + him are my strongest town reads atm
[14/01/2012 1:30:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: balss =/= mafia
[14/01/2012 1:31:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: even you when red you play more conservatively
[14/01/2012 1:31:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: of course i can be fooled and mistaken
[14/01/2012 1:31:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: but i gotta go with my guts
[14/01/2012 1:31:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: and they say you plus him are town right now
[14/01/2012 1:38:25 AM] james: i appreciate that, I now have to dig
[14/01/2012 1:38:29 AM] james: through friggen aim logs
[14/01/2012 1:38:29 AM] james: on incog
[14/01/2012 1:38:32 AM] james: fuuuuck
[14/01/2012 1:39:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: ?
[14/01/2012 1:39:29 AM] james: to quote his view
[14/01/2012 1:39:30 AM] james: of pms
[14/01/2012 1:39:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: he masoned you too?\
[14/01/2012 1:40:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: just made a beatiful post
[14/01/2012 1:40:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm quite proud of it
[14/01/2012 1:59:06 AM] james: the obvious drunk post?
[14/01/2012 1:59:17 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:59:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: it all makes sense
[14/01/2012 1:59:33 AM] Sandro Maculan: being drunk is very enlightening
[14/01/2012 2:00:13 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:00:28 AM] Sandro Maculan: seriously
[14/01/2012 2:00:29 AM] james: more like it makes everything more fun
[14/01/2012 2:00:57 AM] Sandro Maculan: are you still playing lol btw?
[14/01/2012 2:01:05 AM] james: eh not really
[14/01/2012 2:01:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: been some time since i last messed with it
[14/01/2012 2:01:08 AM] james: star wars has stolen my time
[14/01/2012 2:01:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: haven't had the time
[14/01/2012 2:01:23 AM] james: play so much star wars now
[14/01/2012 2:01:33 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 2:01:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm studying human behavior
[14/01/2012 2:01:54 AM] james: that sounds useful
[14/01/2012 2:02:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: and chicks were never that easy
[14/01/2012 2:02:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm lacking time to foucs on other shit
[14/01/2012 2:03:03 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:03:05 AM] james: chicks are dumb
[14/01/2012 2:03:11 AM] james: booze = make them easy
[14/01/2012 2:03:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: nah man
[14/01/2012 2:03:33 AM] Sandro Maculan: they are like dogs
[14/01/2012 2:03:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: they respond to standard shit
[14/01/2012 2:03:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: if you behave a certain way they jump on you
[14/01/2012 2:05:21 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:05:28 AM] james: and sandro is manipulating teh womenzorz
[14/01/2012 2:05:32 AM] james: to spread legs
[14/01/2012 2:07:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's pretty exciting if you ask me
[14/01/2012 2:07:14 AM] james: hahaha
[14/01/2012 2:07:15 AM] james: aye
[14/01/2012 2:07:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[14/01/2012 2:08:15 AM] Sandro Maculan: man where the fuck is l
[14/01/2012 2:08:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: is he supposed to be really good?
[14/01/2012 2:08:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: isn't
[14/01/2012 2:09:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: fucking mafia always kills me b4 i get a chance to do anything
[14/01/2012 2:10:53 AM] james: L is an oldschool vet
[14/01/2012 2:10:59 AM] james: who is usually meh town
[14/01/2012 2:11:02 AM] james: and solid mafia
[14/01/2012 2:11:05 AM] james: the thing is
[14/01/2012 2:11:06 AM] james: in this setup
[14/01/2012 2:11:13 AM] james: the only people who excel at pms
[14/01/2012 2:11:22 AM] james: would all fuck town sideways as red
[14/01/2012 2:11:23 AM] james: in pms
[14/01/2012 2:11:36 AM] james: if anyone of them is red, regardless of who the red mason is
[14/01/2012 2:11:41 AM] james: pms can be easy crafted
[14/01/2012 2:11:46 AM] Sandro Maculan: who would those be?
[14/01/2012 2:12:05 AM] james: incog, myself, meapak should be able to, L
[14/01/2012 2:12:06 AM] Sandro Maculan: only you and rafiled have fucked me over pms so far
[14/01/2012 2:12:09 AM] james: bum should be able to
[14/01/2012 2:12:21 AM] james: d3 should be able to
[14/01/2012 2:12:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: d3?
[14/01/2012 2:12:33 AM] james: d3_crentia
[14/01/2012 2:12:37 AM] james: hes played for ages]
[14/01/2012 2:12:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: never heard of him
[14/01/2012 2:12:42 AM] james: was in the latest lounge mafia game
[14/01/2012 2:12:49 AM] james: where he got manhandeled in pms
[14/01/2012 2:12:51 AM] james: and irl
[14/01/2012 2:12:56 AM] james: by his betters
[14/01/2012 2:13:01 AM] james: but his ability to play
[14/01/2012 2:13:05 AM] james: is far above most of tls members
[14/01/2012 2:13:06 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 2:13:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: i think you have to really like being mafia to be good at it
[14/01/2012 2:13:29 AM] james: at pm manipulation?
[14/01/2012 2:13:36 AM] Sandro Maculan: like when i roll mafia I feel like giving up
[14/01/2012 2:13:38 AM] james: the "core" group of vets
[14/01/2012 2:13:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: like mafia xlviii
[14/01/2012 2:13:43 AM] james: who can manipulate learned it
[14/01/2012 2:13:52 AM] james: via testing eachother like mad
[14/01/2012 2:13:54 AM] james: in pm circles
[14/01/2012 2:13:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: i don't even like winning as mafia
[14/01/2012 2:13:56 AM] james: to play find the red
[14/01/2012 2:14:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: doesn't feel as good
[14/01/2012 2:14:05 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:14:10 AM] james: i like proving
[14/01/2012 2:14:15 AM] james: tl towns are bad when im red
[14/01/2012 2:14:22 AM] james: since tl towns win a game using shitty reasoning
[14/01/2012 2:14:24 AM] Sandro Maculan: i like proving they are good!
[14/01/2012 2:14:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[14/01/2012 2:14:33 AM] james: and keep doing it because it fluked once
[14/01/2012 2:14:35 AM] james: or twice
[14/01/2012 2:14:38 AM] james: then a vet come sin
[14/01/2012 2:14:40 AM] james: and goes
[14/01/2012 2:14:44 AM] james: "rawrrrr raped you hard"
[14/01/2012 2:14:57 AM] james: then town doesnt learn -_-
[14/01/2012 2:14:58 AM] james: other than
[14/01/2012 2:15:00 AM] james: vets = op
[14/01/2012 2:15:01 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:15:03 AM] Sandro Maculan: hmm you hurt my ego by saying that
[14/01/2012 2:15:10 AM] james: your an exception
[14/01/2012 2:15:14 AM] james: but like
[14/01/2012 2:15:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: i like to think we are pretty decent =P
[14/01/2012 2:15:18 AM] james: you can see what I mean right?
[14/01/2012 2:15:25 AM] james: that faultly reasoning is getting used
[14/01/2012 2:15:27 AM] james: frequently
[14/01/2012 2:15:30 AM] james: by the same people?
[14/01/2012 2:15:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah i ignore 80% of people's opinions in game
[14/01/2012 2:15:53 AM] Sandro Maculan: some players i don't even bother to read what they post
[14/01/2012 2:16:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: but there are some that i can really tell apart
[14/01/2012 2:16:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: if you are bad as town it feels like it's too easy to be mafia
[14/01/2012 2:16:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: cuz no one expects any better from you
[14/01/2012 2:17:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: so whenever i roll mafia it's like a burden
[14/01/2012 2:17:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: and when i roll town it's like vacations =)
[14/01/2012 2:18:17 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:18:23 AM] james: i view being mafia a challenge
[14/01/2012 2:18:37 AM] james: and honestly have learned more by being red
[14/01/2012 2:18:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: dunno
[14/01/2012 2:18:39 AM] james: than from town
[14/01/2012 2:18:43 AM] Sandro Maculan: i view town as a challenge
[14/01/2012 2:18:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: nailing scum feels so good
[14/01/2012 2:18:55 AM] james: oh it does
[14/01/2012 2:19:01 AM] james: pyp3 was the more infuriating / gratifying experience
[14/01/2012 2:19:04 AM] james: i have had as town
[14/01/2012 2:19:07 AM] james: nailed every red
[14/01/2012 2:19:10 AM] james: traitor
[14/01/2012 2:19:12 AM] james: and both sk's
[14/01/2012 2:19:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah you feel like a boss\
[14/01/2012 2:19:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: most games i do okay
[14/01/2012 2:19:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: I get good day1 reads and after i realise I was right i fell so good
[14/01/2012 2:20:03 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's awesome
[14/01/2012 2:20:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: when mafia i just feel people were fools not to catch me
[14/01/2012 2:21:00 AM] james: eh
[14/01/2012 2:21:13 AM] james: im always surprised when im not catched
[14/01/2012 2:21:18 AM] james: although My style ensures i die
[14/01/2012 2:21:19 AM] james: always
[14/01/2012 2:21:57 AM] Sandro Maculan: next time i roll mafia
[14/01/2012 2:22:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm going to be the summiest mofo on earth and not give a fuck
[14/01/2012 2:22:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: like my first games i didn't care what people would think
[14/01/2012 2:23:40 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:23:44 AM] james: good policy
[14/01/2012 2:23:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: man seriously
[14/01/2012 2:24:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: why would people not vote for me
[14/01/2012 2:24:21 AM] james: your not being the typical convincing roba
[14/01/2012 2:24:22 AM] Sandro Maculan: so far i got like 1 vote
[14/01/2012 2:24:25 AM] james: you appear really halfassed
[14/01/2012 2:24:27 AM] james: so far in thread
[14/01/2012 2:24:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[14/01/2012 2:24:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's the typical me
[14/01/2012 2:24:43 AM] james: or that you are making the round of running for office
[14/01/2012 2:24:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: i don't care for walls
[14/01/2012 2:24:46 AM] james: with 0 effort
[14/01/2012 2:24:47 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:27:53 AM] Sandro Maculan: hmmm
[14/01/2012 2:28:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: i think i put in effort when it's needed
[14/01/2012 2:28:10 AM] Sandro Maculan: i don't like discussing random shit that leads nowhere
[14/01/2012 2:29:26 AM] james: didnt you use to post more, or is it that we just talk alot that i assume you do? lol
[14/01/2012 2:29:37 AM] james: also brb
[14/01/2012 2:30:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: the time i dedicate to mafia is proportional of the time I'm at home doing nothing
[14/01/2012 2:30:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: so yeah when there is less good shit to do i post more
[14/01/2012 2:32:15 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:48:59 AM] james: that post was more boss
[14/01/2012 2:49:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: =)
[14/01/2012 2:56:32 AM] Sandro Maculan: fuck palmar man
[14/01/2012 2:56:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is taking too long
[14/01/2012 2:56:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: maybe he is mafia
[14/01/2012 2:58:08 AM] james: hes realllllly apathetic this game
[14/01/2012 2:58:10 AM] james: for some reason
[14/01/2012 2:58:12 AM] james: not like gms game
[14/01/2012 2:58:13 AM] james: at all
[14/01/2012 3:00:28 AM] Sandro Maculan: rofl
[14/01/2012 3:00:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: did you watch
[14/01/2012 3:00:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: the uszat dude interviewing players?
[14/01/2012 3:06:28 AM] james: nope
[14/01/2012 3:06:33 AM] james: i rarely watch streams or vids on tl now
[14/01/2012 3:06:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: rfo
[14/01/2012 3:07:00 AM] james: rfo?
[14/01/2012 3:07:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: rofl
[14/01/2012 3:07:15 AM] Sandro Maculan: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303115#6
[14/01/2012 3:07:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: watch this
[14/01/2012 3:07:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: will not dissapoint
[14/01/2012 3:14:15 AM] james: thats carmac trolling people? rofl
[14/01/2012 3:14:55 AM] james: or someone that carmac
[14/01/2012 3:14:59 AM] james: just found vids of?
[14/01/2012 3:37:35 AM] james: and heading to bed, ttyl
[14/01/2012 3:06:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: man I have 1 hour before i go out again and need to catch up
[14/01/2012 3:06:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: you here?
[14/01/2012 3:07:17 PM] james: -_-
[14/01/2012 3:07:18 PM] james: ve claimed jack
[14/01/2012 3:07:24 PM] james: mattchew was modkilled
[14/01/2012 3:07:25 PM] james: for being a dumbfuck
[14/01/2012 3:07:32 PM] james: we are no where closer to getting shit solved
[14/01/2012 3:07:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: I', still on page 50 =(
[14/01/2012 3:07:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: and don't quite remember last night
[14/01/2012 3:07:51 PM] james: you were kinda drunk
[14/01/2012 3:07:54 PM] james: drunk man mc drunk
[14/01/2012 3:08:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: i was kinda totally drunk
[14/01/2012 3:08:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: out of my mind
[14/01/2012 3:08:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[14/01/2012 3:08:16 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:08:21 PM] james: thats not normal?
[14/01/2012 3:08:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's quite standard for my weekends =P
[14/01/2012 3:08:45 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:08:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: i do enjoy my vodka
[14/01/2012 3:12:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: who are you lynching btw
[14/01/2012 3:12:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: i need to vote cuz i won't have the time later
[14/01/2012 3:17:17 PM] james: most likely incog
[14/01/2012 3:17:21 PM] james: unless someone fucks up in thread
[14/01/2012 3:17:23 PM] james: between now and then
[14/01/2012 3:17:32 PM] james: 3 posts since the start of a game day
[14/01/2012 3:17:34 PM] james: is inexcusable
[14/01/2012 3:17:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[14/01/2012 3:17:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: then I'm not voting for you
[14/01/2012 3:17:50 PM] james: where 1 was a purposeful misrepresentation of facts
[14/01/2012 3:17:55 PM] james: and continued a discussion round me
[14/01/2012 3:17:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's quite silly to lynch him day1 man
[14/01/2012 3:17:59 PM] james: as opposed to around masons
[14/01/2012 3:18:00 PM] james: eh
[14/01/2012 3:18:09 PM] james: take you rpick, its him or foolishness
[14/01/2012 3:18:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: and he ddoesn't seem to give a fuck
[14/01/2012 3:18:14 PM] james: both are performing badly
[14/01/2012 3:18:16 PM] james: there are 2
[14/01/2012 3:18:17 PM] Sandro Maculan: which is a townie trait
[14/01/2012 3:18:17 PM] james: fucking people
[14/01/2012 3:18:18 PM] james: on
[14/01/2012 3:18:19 PM] james: 1
[14/01/2012 3:18:20 PM] james: account
[14/01/2012 3:18:27 PM] james: 3 posts
[14/01/2012 3:18:30 PM] james: is totaly inexcusable
[14/01/2012 3:18:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: well sure
[14/01/2012 3:18:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: let's give him one more day and watch him closely
[14/01/2012 3:18:52 PM] james: given that he has not contributed anything and is solely being disruptive?
[14/01/2012 3:19:00 PM] james: and foolishness? who openly admitted
[14/01/2012 3:19:02 PM] Sandro Maculan: lynching him day1 is an statistical mistake
[14/01/2012 3:19:07 PM] james: that he wants a mayor in power
[14/01/2012 3:19:08 PM] james: that he can manipulate?
[14/01/2012 3:19:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: man even so
[14/01/2012 3:19:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: that's not something mafia would say openly
[14/01/2012 3:19:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's like your claim
[14/01/2012 3:19:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: it draws suspcion onto you
[14/01/2012 3:19:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: which makes you less likely mafia
[14/01/2012 3:20:22 PM] james: foolishness
[14/01/2012 3:20:24 PM] james: didnt say it openly
[14/01/2012 3:20:26 PM] james: he said it in pms
[14/01/2012 3:20:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: let's wait for day 2 to lynch those guys
[14/01/2012 3:20:29 PM] james: and his mason
[14/01/2012 3:20:32 PM] james: gave out the pms
[14/01/2012 3:20:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: chances are if they are town mafia will shoot them regardless of how suspicious they are
[14/01/2012 3:20:46 PM] james: had mattchew not shared his pms before modkilled
[14/01/2012 3:20:48 PM] james: no one would have known
[14/01/2012 3:20:51 PM] james: possibly
[14/01/2012 3:21:01 PM] james: near no one has posted though
[14/01/2012 3:21:07 PM] james: primarily only known names
[14/01/2012 3:21:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm guilty of that too
[14/01/2012 3:21:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: i have no time on weekends
[14/01/2012 3:21:48 PM] james: haha
[14/01/2012 3:21:58 PM] james: of the people who have posted day 1
[14/01/2012 3:22:02 PM] james: both of them are the most suspicious to me
[14/01/2012 3:22:06 PM] james: palmar is a handicap
[14/01/2012 3:22:10 PM] james: kurumi is trolling
[14/01/2012 3:22:15 PM] james: as kurumi always does
[14/01/2012 3:22:27 PM] james: the only "neutral" lynch i have is him
[14/01/2012 3:22:29 PM] james: for doing fuck all
[14/01/2012 3:22:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: kurumi trolls way less as mafia
[14/01/2012 3:22:39 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's a pretty good tell on him
[14/01/2012 3:22:40 PM] james: the only troll i abide by
[14/01/2012 3:22:42 PM] james: is chez
[14/01/2012 3:22:43 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:22:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: sure
[14/01/2012 3:22:48 PM] james: he actually contributes
[14/01/2012 3:22:51 PM] james: as a troll
[14/01/2012 3:23:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: kurumi is disrupitive, but if he is trolling a lot chances are he is town
[14/01/2012 3:24:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: we have to lynch not likely day1 targets
[14/01/2012 3:24:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: like cc and ciry
[14/01/2012 3:24:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: high chance to flip mafia and low chance to get shot if town
[14/01/2012 3:24:39 PM] Sandro Maculan: and we have to deal with them at some point
[14/01/2012 3:26:13 PM] james: eeh both have high chances
[14/01/2012 3:26:19 PM] james: of being shot
[14/01/2012 3:26:20 PM] james: atm imo
[14/01/2012 3:27:04 PM] Sandro Maculan: being shot by who?
[14/01/2012 3:27:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: vigis?
[14/01/2012 3:27:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: dunno vigis normally like to save it for later
[14/01/2012 3:28:34 PM] james: ve claims hes shooting cc
[14/01/2012 3:28:36 PM] james: or was anyway
[14/01/2012 3:31:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: what
[14/01/2012 3:32:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm still on page 58
[14/01/2012 3:32:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: why did he claim who he is shooting
[14/01/2012 3:32:23 PM] Sandro Maculan: and why did he claim in the first palce?
[14/01/2012 3:33:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: rofl
[14/01/2012 3:33:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: seriously
[14/01/2012 3:33:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: he cclaims jack and doesn't eve know how it works
[14/01/2012 3:33:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[14/01/2012 3:35:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: I want to vote for you cuz i don't really like the other options besides protact
[14/01/2012 3:35:44 PM] james: yea
[14/01/2012 3:35:47 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:35:48 PM] james: see
[14/01/2012 3:35:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: but he wants to lynch you and you him
[14/01/2012 3:35:57 PM] james: eh
[14/01/2012 3:36:02 PM] james: i have a list of like 4 people
[14/01/2012 3:36:03 PM] Sandro Maculan: that's dumb as fuck =P
[14/01/2012 3:36:04 PM] james: id lynch
[14/01/2012 3:36:06 PM] james: tbh
[14/01/2012 3:36:10 PM] james: he went for me
[14/01/2012 3:36:14 PM] james: on the shadiest shit
[14/01/2012 3:36:15 PM] james: in the world
[14/01/2012 3:36:19 PM] james: incog reads the OP's
[14/01/2012 3:36:21 PM] james: carefully
[14/01/2012 3:36:23 PM] james: and he misread it
[14/01/2012 3:36:28 PM] james: needed to pull a post I made
[14/01/2012 3:36:31 PM] james: outside of the game
[14/01/2012 3:36:35 PM] james: that he misrepresented?
[14/01/2012 3:36:42 PM] james: theres no way in hell
[14/01/2012 3:36:45 PM] james: thats a town incog
[14/01/2012 3:36:47 PM] james: he knows better
[14/01/2012 3:36:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: he's pretty good mafia then
[14/01/2012 3:37:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: cuz i got a strong town lean on him
[14/01/2012 3:37:10 PM] james: he has 3 posts
[14/01/2012 3:37:14 PM] Sandro Maculan: based on the way he posts his shit
[14/01/2012 3:37:14 PM] james: and has support
[14/01/2012 3:37:16 PM] james: on a stance of
[14/01/2012 3:37:24 PM] james: "ill lynch ciryandor" into "ill lynch bc"
[14/01/2012 3:37:31 PM] james: he posts
[14/01/2012 3:37:34 PM] james: analysis posts
[14/01/2012 3:37:42 PM] james: mafia thats easy to do
[14/01/2012 3:37:47 PM] james: he fucks up day 1
[14/01/2012 3:37:52 PM] james: whoops day 1 analysis dudes
[14/01/2012 3:37:54 PM] james: my bad
[14/01/2012 3:38:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: k if you really have a good case on him being scum and get elected you can push it day2 since you will be alive
[14/01/2012 3:38:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'll vote for you if you don't lynch into vets day1
[14/01/2012 3:39:48 PM] james: and who would you recommend?
[14/01/2012 3:39:53 PM] james: a random non talker?
[14/01/2012 3:39:57 PM] james: which we have a million of
[14/01/2012 3:40:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'd recomend a flip between one of your bgs
[14/01/2012 3:40:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: and ciryandor
[14/01/2012 3:40:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: maybe you can even say in thread
[14/01/2012 3:40:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: that you will lynch one of the bgs 50% of the time
[14/01/2012 3:40:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: and don't even roll
[14/01/2012 3:41:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: that's because mafia can sub bgs in and kill both elected roles without outing anyone
[14/01/2012 3:41:23 PM] james: ....................
[14/01/2012 3:41:25 PM] james: i can't
[14/01/2012 3:41:26 PM] james: lynch
[14/01/2012 3:41:27 PM] james: a bg
[14/01/2012 3:41:35 PM] james: the mayor lynch choice
[14/01/2012 3:41:37 PM] james: has to be in
[14/01/2012 3:41:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: you can threaten
[14/01/2012 3:41:38 PM] james: when you get
[14/01/2012 3:41:40 PM] james: elected
[14/01/2012 3:41:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: treathen
[14/01/2012 3:41:45 PM] james: ITS FULL OF SHIT
[14/01/2012 3:41:49 PM] james: bgs are chosen after lynch
[14/01/2012 3:41:56 PM] james: its a god damn lie
[14/01/2012 3:41:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: oh
[14/01/2012 3:42:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: i didn't know that
[14/01/2012 3:42:11 PM] james: fw always makes the mayor candidates
[14/01/2012 3:42:14 PM] james: send in the lynch choice
[14/01/2012 3:42:16 PM] james: like
[14/01/2012 3:42:19 PM] james: 1 hour ahead
[14/01/2012 3:42:20 PM] james: of the post
[14/01/2012 3:42:30 PM] james: so that someone dies within 5 minutes of deadline
[14/01/2012 3:42:36 PM] james: mafia then decides to sub in or not
[14/01/2012 3:42:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol then you need to out one of your bgs to me
[14/01/2012 3:42:38 PM] james: based on election results
[14/01/2012 3:42:45 PM] james: was pretty sure
[14/01/2012 3:42:50 PM] james: that I was going to do a cipher
[14/01/2012 3:42:57 PM] james: and hand 1 half to you, and the other half elsewhere
[14/01/2012 3:43:16 PM] james: in the event I die
[14/01/2012 3:43:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah seems like a plan
[14/01/2012 3:43:27 PM] Sandro Maculan: and tell the thread that i know
[14/01/2012 3:43:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: and whoever is the other person that know
[14/01/2012 3:43:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: s
[14/01/2012 3:43:50 PM] james: openly telling thread who the people are
[14/01/2012 3:43:53 PM] james: just means they die as well
[14/01/2012 3:43:53 PM] james: kik
[14/01/2012 3:43:55 PM] james: lol*
[14/01/2012 3:43:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: no man
[14/01/2012 3:44:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: unless you trust me and this other dude 100%
[14/01/2012 3:44:24 PM] Sandro Maculan: you have to tell the thread who has the info
[14/01/2012 3:44:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: not who are the bgs
[14/01/2012 3:44:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: that would be dumb
[14/01/2012 3:44:55 PM] james: its pretty obvious
[14/01/2012 3:45:01 PM] james: who id be handing it out to
[14/01/2012 3:45:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah the other dude that mason you
[14/01/2012 3:45:25 PM] Sandro Maculan: do you trust him?
[14/01/2012 3:45:46 PM] james: eh? enough with half a cipher
[14/01/2012 3:46:10 PM] james: say im elected and im town + sheriff is town
[14/01/2012 3:46:12 PM] james: i hand you + opz
[14/01/2012 3:46:15 PM] james: the info
[14/01/2012 3:46:19 PM] james: if both bgs die night 1
[14/01/2012 3:46:23 PM] james: you are both obviously red
[14/01/2012 3:46:35 PM] james: if myself + sheriff die night 1
[14/01/2012 3:46:37 PM] james: both bgs are red
[14/01/2012 3:46:47 PM] james: if you or opz dont come forward with the info
[14/01/2012 3:46:50 PM] james: we snagged another red
[14/01/2012 3:47:07 PM] james: if both bgs die while myself + sheriff are still alive
[14/01/2012 3:47:12 PM] james: likely 1 of is red
[14/01/2012 3:47:26 PM] james: or you and opz are
[14/01/2012 3:47:27 PM] james: regardless
[14/01/2012 3:47:34 PM] james: its either 1 or 2 reds
[14/01/2012 3:47:41 PM] james: in the case
[14/01/2012 3:47:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 3:47:46 PM] james: and having the names out
[14/01/2012 3:47:47 PM] Sandro Maculan: I can't be elected
[14/01/2012 3:47:49 PM] james: works as a deterent
[14/01/2012 3:47:54 PM] james: to shooting / subbing them
[14/01/2012 3:47:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: I won't be here for the lynch
[14/01/2012 3:48:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah seems good enough
[14/01/2012 3:49:22 PM] Sandro Maculan: day ends today right?
[14/01/2012 3:50:29 PM] james: uh let me check
[14/01/2012 3:51:02 PM] james: yea
[14/01/2012 3:51:20 PM] james: aksi
[14/01/2012 3:51:23 PM] james: also
[14/01/2012 3:51:27 PM] james: interesting move foolishness
[14/01/2012 3:51:40 PM] james: he voted me
[14/01/2012 3:51:41 PM] james: not bm
[14/01/2012 3:51:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: you are lynching protact 100%?
[14/01/2012 3:52:13 PM] james: not 100% no
[14/01/2012 3:53:12 PM] james: i have foolishness, palmar, protact, brownbear and wiggles
[14/01/2012 3:53:16 PM] james: on a list of possible red vets
[14/01/2012 3:53:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[14/01/2012 3:53:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: i want to lynch none of those
[14/01/2012 3:53:35 PM] james: most wont
[14/01/2012 3:53:41 PM] james: brownbear hasn't posted that I remember
[14/01/2012 3:53:47 PM] james: if i had to choose former mayor candidates
[14/01/2012 3:53:50 PM] james: is shoot slardar
[14/01/2012 3:53:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: bb might even get mkéd
[14/01/2012 3:53:53 PM] james: but hes so obviously not red
[14/01/2012 3:54:12 PM] james: so many vets have done
[14/01/2012 3:54:13 PM] Sandro Maculan: tbh i don't even remember reading his posts
[14/01/2012 3:54:15 PM] james: dick fuck all
[14/01/2012 4:01:44 PM] Sandro Maculan: man I'll compromise don't lynch fool or incog then you get my vote
[14/01/2012 4:04:25 PM] james: fine, ill agree to that
[14/01/2012 4:05:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: k gotta roll
[14/01/2012 4:05:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'd totally support palmar
[14/01/2012 4:06:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck him he is scum
[14/01/2012 4:07:01 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 4:17:56 PM] james: off to work be back later
[12:05:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: i'm back
[12:06:01 AM] Sandro Maculan: who got lynched
[12:11:43 AM] james: palmar flipped miller
[12:11:47 AM] james: and you almsot got modkilled i think
[12:11:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[12:12:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: just checked that
[12:12:03 AM] Sandro Maculan: =/
[12:12:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: i didn't even realize there was a voting thread
[12:12:23 AM] james: lol
[12:12:36 AM] Sandro Maculan: i saw plenty of people voting in thread
[12:12:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: and never checked
[12:12:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: fucking palmar man
[12:12:59 AM] james: least he was miller
[12:13:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[12:13:11 AM] Sandro Maculan: not as bad
[12:13:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: but sitll
[12:13:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: i was pretty sure he was mafia
[12:14:12 AM] james: im more comfortable with my read still
[12:14:14 AM] james: on incog
[12:14:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: incog is my second strongest read this game
[12:14:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: as town
[12:14:59 AM] james: why his flop
[12:15:02 AM] james: with no real reason
[12:15:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[12:15:09 AM] james: from me
[12:15:11 AM] james: to someone else?
[12:15:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: i did read that
[12:15:19 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's pretty normal as town
[12:15:23 AM] james: nah
[12:15:28 AM] james: his campaign run
[12:15:30 AM] Sandro Maculan: and pretty danm wierd if e is mafia
[12:15:30 AM] james: that picked up steam
[12:15:32 AM] james: was offing me
[12:15:41 AM] Sandro Maculan: mafia wants to keep their story straigh
[12:15:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: and draw the least amount of suspicion
[12:15:55 AM] james: eh? depends on the player
[12:15:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: nothing about his play screams mafia
[12:15:59 AM] james: doing things that are
[12:16:06 AM] james: "non standard cause they are bad"
[12:16:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: i read that game curu played in
[12:16:13 AM] james: is a valid strat
[12:16:14 AM] james: lol
[12:16:21 AM] Sandro Maculan: sure
[12:16:33 AM] james: vets routinely do things that are "wtfish" because they can get away with it when no one else can
[12:16:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: but they neve pull it off
[12:16:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: they always keep somewhat neutral
[12:17:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: dunno i used to thin k that way
[12:17:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: and thought you were mafia 2 games in which you were not
[12:17:26 AM] james: to be fair
[12:17:32 AM] james: regardless of my alignment
[12:17:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: mafia behaves similarly no matter how good they are supposed to be
[12:17:37 AM] james: people typically view my play
[12:17:38 AM] james: as red
[12:18:01 AM] Sandro Maculan: all my conspiracy theories
[12:18:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: like these guy is incredible mafia and must be doing yx
[12:18:22 AM] james: lol
[12:18:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: always prove to be wrong
[12:18:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: the simplest thing is most likely truth
[12:18:52 AM] james: usually
[12:18:59 AM] james: the exception is vet players
[12:19:10 AM] Sandro Maculan: nah
[12:19:11 AM] james: most vets dont play
[12:19:13 AM] james: fucked up
[12:19:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: they aren't
[12:19:15 AM] james: ace does
[12:19:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's hat i'm saying
[12:19:30 AM] Sandro Maculan: even ace
[12:19:31 AM] james: lol
[12:19:35 AM] james: ace does ballsy shit
[12:19:36 AM] james: in the open
[12:19:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: acts way more calmly when mafia
[12:19:47 AM] james: until you provke him
[12:19:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: when town he is way more out there
[12:19:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: nah man
[12:20:07 AM] james: im saying from experience
[12:20:13 AM] james: you can pressure him
[12:20:13 AM] james: hard
[12:20:18 AM] james: and by pressure i mean
[12:20:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah maybe you are right
[12:20:20 AM] james: argue like a champ
[12:20:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: i'm saying form experience too
[12:20:27 AM] james: till he gets super pissed
[12:20:28 AM] james: lol
[12:20:30 AM] james: it takes alot
[12:20:32 AM] james: and I mean alot
[12:22:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: man i need to sleep
[12:22:16 AM] james: haha
[12:22:17 AM] james: then crash
[12:22:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: i got woken up 4 hours after i hit the sac today
[12:22:57 AM] Sandro Maculan: i got home early toay cuz i was like a fucking zombie
[12:23:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: gnight man
[11:27:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: yo
[11:27:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: can we still talk?
[11:27:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: or it's only for the day?
[11:29:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: fucking. hung over.
[11:29:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: need. more. drinks.
[5:16:33 PM] james: we can yes


Do you REALLY think they have the commitment to fake lake 8 pages of skyping? This looks genuine to me. It is a fuck ton of work to fake something that well. I am not even capable of faking a conversation that well.

Who are those guys calling for BCs head now? Think that through. And get of his ass.

If we look at the mayor candidates now, Protact is town to me and altough I didn't like the KJ case as much, there were reasons to vote him. BC is established town because no one would randomly fake a chat log like that.

That leaves us with BM. Hmm. He called for sandros head, was against KJ lynch. and started to put some effort him. Still seems like the number one target of those three.

We actually might consider L being the scum candidate. He ended up being godfather, so apparently scum wanted to give him DT immunitiy. If L was the red candidate and just couldn't get the leverage behind his campaing...

There was a small (maybe desperate) triple post bandwagon d1 page 66 which seemed odd to me at that time, because L made that stupid question about the vig shot:

On January 15 2012 08:20 supersoft wrote:
okay I am giving my vote to the one I think is most likely town. It's BM.
I think I won't change my opinion anymore.
Maybe I'll switch to L.


On January 15 2012 08:21 Jitsu wrote:
I haven't voted yet. I'm having trouble determining who I think should best be put into the position based on D1 Analysis.

I am leaning towards L right now. Not sure about Protact.


On January 15 2012 08:22 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I like L's direction his post carries. They like all the extraneous drama that everyone elses had. He's also a notable scum hunter, and very successful at it. I think I'm leaving my vote for him on him actually.


At least Opz and supersoft are on many peoples lists. So this scenario would be possible as well.

___________________________

I am actually surprised that chaos flipped green. I was pretty sure about him. Guess I was wrong. That also weakens the GGQ case a lot

Also, I am glad that we didn't waste our DL! Good move town.

Yeah, that were my thoughts, I have no fucking Idea of who tho vote for right now. I will look at further delevopments.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 11:00 GMT
#3293
On January 21 2012 19:43 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 19:29 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-

What the fuck happened to this thread? People need to chill out cuz we got tons of info to find scum.

I just got home, and Im going to bed. Ill give my thoughts on my reads in the morning. and yes I got a check for someone on day 2. I wont reveal who till just before the day post for obvious reasons...



medics on this guy btw.


I hate post like that. Directing medics is a fucking aweful Idea. This doesn't encourage a medic to protect him, it actually makes him WIFOM if he really should protect him, because mafia is reading this very post.

STOP DIRECTING BLUES. Trust them, they've been pretty great so far and know what they're doing. Especially N1: N1 red DT check, N1 medic save. Also 2 great vig shots.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 11:48 GMT
#3296
On January 21 2012 20:41 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 20:00 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 21 2012 19:43 supersoft wrote:
On January 21 2012 19:29 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-

What the fuck happened to this thread? People need to chill out cuz we got tons of info to find scum.

I just got home, and Im going to bed. Ill give my thoughts on my reads in the morning. and yes I got a check for someone on day 2. I wont reveal who till just before the day post for obvious reasons...



medics on this guy btw.


I hate post like that. Directing medics is a fucking aweful Idea. This doesn't encourage a medic to protect him, it actually makes him WIFOM if he really should protect him, because mafia is reading this very post.

STOP DIRECTING BLUES. Trust them, they've been pretty great so far and know what they're doing. Especially N1: N1 red DT check, N1 medic save. Also 2 great vig shots.


wrong. blues are dumb. dont trust them, direct them.


don't say something with your own words, if someone else already phrased it with better words.

from the general guide to mafia:

As a general rule, normal townies should not attempt to direct blue roles or try to find out who is blue and who is not. Town power roles work better if the mafia are uncertain of what the blue roles will do. It is not uncommon for the mafia to have anti-blue roles such as roleblockers, medics, framers, etc. Therefore, if the mafia has a general idea that the medic will protect X, or the DT will check Y, they are free to mess with those actions if they feel it to be necessary. Do not make medic lists, DT lists, or vig lists, as they are generally unhelpful or even detrimental to the town . As long as you are doing a good job of posting constructively and sharing your suspicions, good blue roles who are reading the thread should have the information to know what to do. Don’t direct their actions just because you suspect they are incompetent.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 12:01 GMT
#3299
On January 21 2012 20:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 19:56 Jayjay54 wrote:
We actually might consider L being the scum candidate. He ended up being godfather, so apparently scum wanted to give him DT immunitiy. If L was the red candidate and just couldn't get the leverage behind his campaing...

Or, they already had a candidate who would be immune to DT checks anyway

Show nested quote +
On January 19 2012 14:11 Bill Murray wrote:
I didn't get to send in anything last night, and I'm like 80 pages behind on reading
I don't mind being lynched
I've failed you all as a Sheriff

Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 12:09 Bill Murray wrote:
I've used night actions both nights

Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 12:10 Bill Murray wrote:
I jailkeeped lanaia and I put a bomb on mystlord

Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 12:50 Bill Murray wrote:
I'm not taking a bomb off
I'm either putting another bomb out, or jailing to try to protect someone like a medic like if someone like Foolishness was just a townie, I could jailkeep them for 2 nights to guarantee they get to late game. That is more valuable. I am 50% protactinium is scum based on the election - it's either him or BC. I'm not moving that bomb, unless we're lynching BC.

Inconsistencies much?


haha I always thought he jailed and bombed on n1 and did nothing n2. That would make sense somehow.

Now, that he sticks to a different story, yea. He's a goner. I'll vote him. You can't be that bad when playing town. BC is town, protact certainly acts town, BM is scum.

Also, town: he'll 99% claim that he's been roleblocked.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 12:02 GMT
#3300
On January 21 2012 20:59 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 20:48 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 21 2012 20:41 supersoft wrote:
On January 21 2012 20:00 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 21 2012 19:43 supersoft wrote:
On January 21 2012 19:29 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-

What the fuck happened to this thread? People need to chill out cuz we got tons of info to find scum.

I just got home, and Im going to bed. Ill give my thoughts on my reads in the morning. and yes I got a check for someone on day 2. I wont reveal who till just before the day post for obvious reasons...



medics on this guy btw.


I hate post like that. Directing medics is a fucking aweful Idea. This doesn't encourage a medic to protect him, it actually makes him WIFOM if he really should protect him, because mafia is reading this very post.

STOP DIRECTING BLUES. Trust them, they've been pretty great so far and know what they're doing. Especially N1: N1 red DT check, N1 medic save. Also 2 great vig shots.


wrong. blues are dumb. dont trust them, direct them.


don't say something with your own words, if someone else already phrased it with better words.

from the general guide to mafia:

As a general rule, normal townies should not attempt to direct blue roles or try to find out who is blue and who is not. Town power roles work better if the mafia are uncertain of what the blue roles will do. It is not uncommon for the mafia to have anti-blue roles such as roleblockers, medics, framers, etc. Therefore, if the mafia has a general idea that the medic will protect X, or the DT will check Y, they are free to mess with those actions if they feel it to be necessary. Do not make medic lists, DT lists, or vig lists, as they are generally unhelpful or even detrimental to the town . As long as you are doing a good job of posting constructively and sharing your suspicions, good blue roles who are reading the thread should have the information to know what to do. Don’t direct their actions just because you suspect they are incompetent.



the general guide didnt fall from heaven, engraved in stone.
This is a opinion of some guy and I have my own. In this individual case, it's fairly obvious that the almost confirmed DT needs some protection.


and it will be obvious to the medics as well. but you kind of destroy the shadow of doubt for scum.

I don't agree with your call here, sorry.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 12:28 GMT
#3303
On January 21 2012 21:19 rgTheSchworz wrote:
No, they'll RB him continously, if they haven't got any other obvious target. Why risk protection?


I don't even....



@supersoft: I just think that without directing blues, the scum target choice will be even harder. whatever.

where we agree is that a DT is pretty good, so we should keep him
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 12:49 GMT
#3306
On January 21 2012 21:30 jaj22 wrote:
@Bill: You seem to be implying that you only have one night action. I don't think this is correct. Also your mayor run makes even less sense from a town perspective if that's what you believed.


Plus (if he sticks to that story)

a) if he was so sure lanaia or protact or whatever is scum, you'd absolutely use your bomb ability instead of your (a lot weaker) jail ability.

b) He was all over BC d2, why place the bomb on protact, who already called 2 scums at that time.

His plays make no sense, even if he's town, he's not helpfull whatsoever. There's nothing to make me believe he's town. If he's town, he did nothing to prove it and played terribad.

I'll be voting him
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 13:58 GMT
#3321
On January 21 2012 22:51 rgTheSchworz wrote:

I'm not asking you to jail hiro, I'm asking hiro to claim being jailed regardless of your choice this night.
This is to assure we're lynching you, scum.
You have escaped lynching yesterday by BS-ing us.I think that's unfair.

Stop bending what i say, I believed protact was bussing, I was not 100% sure. Unlikely, now that L has flipped red.




you need to start making sense. You want our DT to falseclaim something to force town to vote BM. Are you kidding me?

Town will be able to vote. 6 scums left, our votes outnumber theirs by a good margin. We're in a good position.

What we shouldn't do is start falseclaiming to push an individual agenda. We need trust and not that bullshit.

If you want that town lynches BM, well convice the town. But not pull crap like you suggest.

Please stop now, with this nonsense topic.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 14:19 GMT
#3327
On January 21 2012 23:11 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 13:42 Jackal58 wrote:
Proactinium is scum. If we have any vigs left shoot him.

Drunk Jackal apparently has different reads than sober Jackal.


drunk jackal is more awesome. can we keep him?

also, good job typing drunk!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 15:57 GMT
#3331
On January 22 2012 00:42 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 20:00 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 21 2012 19:43 supersoft wrote:
On January 21 2012 19:29 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-

What the fuck happened to this thread? People need to chill out cuz we got tons of info to find scum.

I just got home, and Im going to bed. Ill give my thoughts on my reads in the morning. and yes I got a check for someone on day 2. I wont reveal who till just before the day post for obvious reasons...



medics on this guy btw.


I hate post like that. Directing medics is a fucking aweful Idea. This doesn't encourage a medic to protect him, it actually makes him WIFOM if he really should protect him, because mafia is reading this very post.

STOP DIRECTING BLUES. Trust them, they've been pretty great so far and know what they're doing. Especially N1: N1 red DT check, N1 medic save. Also 2 great vig shots.


noone is directing blues. I'm just saying (and everyone else) thata I think it could ver well happen that VE or I get shot again. Especially after that sandroba lynch and well hiro is a dt.
I'm not telling people to safe us like a mad man and everyone on us. I'm telling people that imo we 3 are all "noobs" and therefore people might not think about us. It's not an advice to protect us but an advice to think about us :p


you weren't even involved in this, why are you defending yourself? and yes, that was directing blues. I am confident in our blues, they gonna nail it.

that's all on that topic. I am pretty sure the medics know what to do and this is not getting us anyway!

So toad, who's next on you lynch list?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 16:40 GMT
#3335
btw: Dear DT, it would be really cool, if you can drop by and provide the information of your n2 check, just in case, supersoft is right about our medics and you don't make it.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 19:52 GMT
#3362
Hey, here's another vig target! Let's keep those medics running.

After looking through his filter, I am sure evantree is scum.

I was goind to make a case, but after I was halfway done, I realized that this is bullshit, because it is so damn boring. He makes so few moves to argue with that it is really uninteresting.

So let me sum it up:

a) ZERO contributions. He actually has some posts, but none contribute scumhunting in any way. He never accused anyone.

b) He softdefends sandro in this post. Just to move on and do the chameleon move of voting KJ and sandro herehere. Without any real reason.

c) Most of his posts are clarification posts. Somebody asks about masons, he's there. Somebody didn't understand DLs he's there. Replacements check? He's always there. The definition of non-contributing contribution.

d) his last posts were 4 one liners without any content.

e) a)

You'll see that his main theme is "contributing without actually contributing". If you don't believe it, go through his filter and see what he did so far.

This is why, evantree is scum! Farewell!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 21:20 GMT
#3372
On January 22 2012 06:02 jaj22 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2012 04:52 Jayjay54 wrote:
After looking through his filter, I am sure evantree is scum.
[snip]
a) ZERO contributions. He actually has some posts, but none contribute scumhunting in any way. He never accused anyone.

Yeah. Unfortunately this is exactly how he played in Election Mafia. I'd have had him lynched easily if it wasn't for his proven blue claim (it was a very weak role). I even told him after the game that he needed to start accusing people, so his play here has been very disappointing to me.

I wouldn't vig him personally because the meta gives him a low chance of being mafia, but if he doesn't step up his play soon I'll get angry.

@Evantrees: Three scum reads please. With reasons.



uhm, yeah. First game, so no meta reads from me, sorry

Right now, he doesn't do shit for town, maybe he'll step up now!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 21:22 GMT
#3373
On January 22 2012 06:04 p4NDemik wrote:
JayJay if you actually read those logs and don't want to lynch Protact right now you are just as red as he is.


Did I miss something? Why is your post straight up at me?

I read the entire log, there was some noob bashing (I died a little inside ), but other than that?

Can you point out what you exactly mean?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 21 2012 23:42 GMT
#3390
On January 22 2012 08:40 Cwave wrote:
If a bodyguard is killed, will it show that he was a bodyguard?

If this is the case, BM lied to me in the pm's.


On January 14 2012 07:38 flamewheel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 19:53 EchelonTee wrote:
When killed, do Bodyguards flip as Bodyguard(red or blue), or just Townie/Mafia Role?

Town flip Bodyguard. Red flips Bodyguard in addition to any role he or she may have otherwise.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 10:02 GMT
#3526
GG everyone, especially hydra!

Weird GGQ lynch. Might be a vig kill. Or the WIFOM version: Might be to spread confusion.

To me there's only one possible lynch right now: BM. Look at his behaviour and the cases against him. And look at the people voting him d1.

He is the scum candidate we are looking for. BC is certified town in my eyes. The idea that he faked that skype log is next to ridiculous. Hydra's dead, that leaves only BM. The bomb is gone, I feel confident to lynch him.

Also, when you are town sherriff at the verge of being lynched why wouldn't you jail somebody? I know, I would.

All in all, I feel like the choice is easy. So let's not let any confusion distract us from our task today:

=> ##vote Bill Murray

I am not convinced yet that a DL is the right action. Maybe that changes.

@ evantrees:

sorry about your name. please contribute more in a accusing manner. Someone (jaj?) already pointed out that you played similiarly when you were in a different game as town. So maybe I misread you. But you making it freaking hard to figure out that you're town when you do nothing which gives you some profile. Step it up! Your other post was a step in the right direction, but I feel there's room to grow.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 10:23 GMT
#3531
On January 22 2012 19:04 p4NDemik wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2012 12:20 flamewheel wrote:
Day 1 Election Vote Tally

Votes for Bill Murray (11) Second
Macpo
Toadesstern
rgTheSchworz
Jackal58
GiygaS
Munk-E
EchelonTee
Nisani201
Mr. Wiggles
Ciryandor
kitaman27

Votes for kitaman27 (1)
evantrees

Votes for BloodyC0bbler (11) First
Meapak_Ziphh
risk.nuke
GGQ
zeks (now vaderseven)
Lanaia
glurio
Cyber_Cheese
Foolishness
supersoft
wherebugsgo
VisceraEyes

Votes for Protactinium (10)
Palmar
Adam4167
Kurumi
Cwave
Liquid`Sheth
Jayjay54
Jitsu
p4NDemik
bumatlarge
blahz0r

Votes for supersoft (1)
Bill Murray

Votes for L (2)
~OpZ~
Scamp

Votes for wherebugsgo (2)
Kenpachi
Slardar

Votes for VisceraEyes (1)
L

Votes for Meapak_Ziphh (1)
BloodyC0bbler

BloodyC0bbler is elected as Mayor and Bill Murray is his new Sheriff.

There are a lot of non-voters. Chaosquo is excused for this cycle, but to my count that still leaves...
kingjames01
BrownBear (super super super super lurker atm)
sandroba
igabod (replaced by jaj22)
Erandorr (replaced by hiro protagonist, our claimed detective who has not revealed the rest of his info)
Protactinium
rtgICEMAN
Maxella

Replacements are being sought after, though I'm sensing modkills.

I hope everyone will excuse me putting myself as green. I am not against you guys keeping an open mind at all but I want to show my thought process here. I know I am not mafia thus I will use that in my deductive reasoning.

I also now realize I need to clarify BM's lynch candidate now though because I have neglected that thus far and it is a stupid oversight for which I apologize.

A look at his filter shows he initially wanted CC dead but renigged on that and decided on the 14th 1 day in that we should kill sandroba. Big town points for BM I'm surprised I've finally found something pro-town. Alas, BM switched off of sandroba on the 14th at roughly 19:00 KST (rather early on at the time of the second vote count I have listed). He wanted OpZ or Mattchew dead at this point. At 21:00 KST he seems to be back on the sandroba death train (albeit not as strongly as before and after a lot of switching now). Up until the end of the election he wanted sandroba to die as evidenced by this post. OK MAJOR townpoints for BM I apologize for not fully realizing this and being to lazy to go fully through your filter because you looked like such an idiot townie and therefor so red.

*** PEOPLE THIS IS CRUCIAL BOTH PROCTACT AND BM WANTED MAFIA DEAD IF THEY WERE ELECTED. THIS IS REASON TO KEEP BM ALIVE FOR THE MOMENT AND ATTACK WHO ENDED UP AS MAYOR: BloodyC0bbler *** It is possible BM is still a mafia candidate who they sacked for the best candidate though, but this sheer fact should keep our town idiot alive. Now for more analysis!

All of our flipped reds are now present (at least represented in the list as sandroba did not vote). Sandroba not voting makes sense, an active mafioso doesn't vote to help spread the mafia vote - not voting does in a way spread the vote. With the vote as close as it was I have my doubts this was entirely intentional though, but even moreso I doubt they would have any more than 1 fellow mafia that didn't vote in addition to sandroba.

Now lets move on to the votes because fuck those people that didn't vote and got mod-killed or played horribly like kj (I don't hate you kj, but COME ON!! ). Protact I will forgive in honor of his great deeds done for town, that and the other viable candidates look to be at this point very much possible mafia. There very well may not have been another good town candidate left at this point.

Jitsu votes early in these last few hours. His vote is pretty cruicial because it tied Protactinium with the suspect mafia candidates. This vote and the ones that followed put a lot of pressure on the mafia. He is unlikely to be mafia by my book, but not exempt of scrutiny as he hasn't done enough during the game to warrant anyone trusting this read too much.

Protact is getting major traction at this point. blahz0r, bumat, and I all vote Protact. Bumat and blahz0r both unvote at this point as well and there is only a little over an hour left. Protact has a 3 vote lead! Needless to say my vote at this moment of time makes me look even more green because I was the vote that put Protact in the lead. This is a fortunate coincidence for me at this point in time but honestly after all the effort I've put in for town I hope you guys believed my town-ness before I had to make this point. #1 priority for mafia during the election is to escape the day without any of their crew dying. #2 is getting elected roles. As always is the priority of not being found out. Lets delve farther into the vote though. I'm going to be looking at every vote now because they are getting more and more crucial. Context is important for each vote.

We have our top lurker of the game award winning Munk-E showing up to vote BM! Likely mafia voting for likely mafia in my eyes. This vote puts BM at 7 votes to Protacts 11. BC has 8 votes.

VisceraEyes unvotes the pointless wherebugsgo campaign and revotes for Protactinium. We'll be seeing more from him later though. Protact now has 12 votes, with BM at 7 and BC at 8. For now this is a townie looking vote with townie motives.

Evantrees attempts to vote for VisceraEyes, but fails to unvote. His vote will stay on his initial vote of kitaman27. Don't know what to say about this. Stupid town play, mafia play status is uncertain. We have bigger fish to fry atm lets look to the next vote.

Nisani201 has unvoted sandroba and switched to Bill Murray! This could be a very telling vote. His was one that could have been a mafia trying to spread votes earlier, but now their nuts are in a vice, and he is consolidating. Both of his votes have possible mafia motives. Upgrade this guy to orange on our town security scale! Reminder to self: we need to look at his post reasoning in depth when time allows. As well as his entire filter by that measure. Protact has 12, BM has 8, and BC has 8 votes.

EchelonTee votes Bill Murray. Also a suspect vote and worth looking into his filter and vote reasons with a close eye for bullshit. He did not unvote and he did not have a previously smelly post so I won't put his priority level above that of Nisani though. Protact has 12 votes, BM 9, and BC 8.

Slardar unvotes Protactinium and votes for WBG now. This is a bit of a lateral move in the mafia's eyes. Protact now is at 11 with BM 9 BC 8. Slardar's vote doesn't further their agenda anymore than bringing down Protact's vote count. Still could be mafia yanking support when in a pinch but not as suspect as Nisani again. Could also be mafia spreading their vote. Dk. Protact 11 BM 9 BC 8.

Mr Wiggles, townie, votes for BM, fuck our lives right? Oh well he's a townie and Protact is up 11 to BM's 10 and BC's 8.

BC votes now. He votes for Meapak, a cadidate that in his works "he at least knows isn't retarded." This doesn't help town, and can possibly be mafia hiding in the woodwork of a candidate who had no prior support. ADDENDUM: BOTH OTHER VIABLE CANDIDATES WANTED SCUM DEAD IN FACT highly suspicious vote highly suspicious reasoning. No town points rewarded for BM and he does not pass go. Protact 11, BM 10, and BC 8. This is where mafia makes their play.

Now supersoft, my pet mafia project dejour that I haven't forgotten switches his vote from BM to BC. SUPER SUSPICIOUS. Protact 11, BM 9, BC 9. BC IS RED AND SO IS THIS SCUM. They both need to die ASAP. Sheeping mafia scumbag who BC defended needs to go.

Ciryandor votes for BM. Protact 11, BM 10, BC 9. Mafia motives will become more clear with the final votes.

wherebugsgo votes for BC. Protact 11, BM 10, BC 10. I previously thought he was just bad town but wherebugsgo could very well be mafia folks. Need to read his filter over again, all I can think off the top of my head is he hasnt' don't much pro-town lately or ever as far as I know but until now I've passed it off as bad play.

VisceraEyes UNVOTES Protact and votes BC. Crucial vote puts BC in as mayor. Crucially suspicious. Need to read this guy's filter (this is frustrating because his outbursts made me think he was stupo-town). BC 11, BM 10, Protact 10.

Finally kitaman votes Bill Murray. Ties the candidates but BC wins by tiebreaker rules. I dk could be mafia could be town but this guy has been lurking hardcore to my recollection so he warrants a look regardless.

Jitsu unsuccessfully tries to withdraw his vote for Protact and vote for BC. Could be a panicked mafia making a mistake before his buddies realized they had won or before they had time to properly talk to him. Could be a lazy townie. I don't know.

BUT TL:DR:

BloodyC0bbler is DEAD RED and I need your help town to make sure he goes TONIGHT. BM wanted to kill sandroba during the lynch and this should earn him one more day of life. His prior idiocy prevented me from verifying this and made me ignore his I told you so's like the rest of you. Please town!

[big]##Vote BloodyC0bbler[/big
]


I really appreciate your efforts. I do. But your analysis has some flaws.

a)You fail to mention that BC switches his lynch target some minutes before the deadline. This is crucial here. He switches to Palmar who I believe a lot of people wanted dead. I'd agree that it still looks suspicious as shit. I made a lot of remarks concerning that. But it has to be mentioned.

Without this fact, the last minute switches are instant scum. But with a target change, they are a little more justifyable (is that a word?). People who liked BC, but didn't agree with the lynch were likely to hop on now.

b) You just mark all the vote hoppers as scum and ignore the fact that the actual confirmed scum voted BM.

c) You ignore the fact of the 8-page skype log which would take hours and hours to fake. If you didn't read it, read it. It would be an insane effort to fake a casual conversation about the game that well. This here rules BC as scum out, in my opinion.

Your analysis is good, but you jump to conclusions. I made a similiar one on night 1 and made a similiar error (though getting to a scum target ).

So town: vote BM and not BC.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 10:40 GMT
#3532
Oh and also note how the masoned sandroba is all about voting BC "we did find a compromise", but in reality "fails" to submit the vote. This might be buddying without actually voting. Town points BC in retrospective, now that we know sandro is red.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 10:50 GMT
#3537
On January 22 2012 19:45 risk.nuke wrote:
Actually no jay. Switching target lastminute to one of the best scumhunters in the game just because a few voices wanted it is not a little more justifyable imo. From a scum perspective it's convenient.

Still BM needs to die today. I hope I'm right that he is scum and that madman haven't put a bomb on me.
##Vote BM
##Vote DL


I agree, that is why I made a huge post calling BC scum at the beginning of n1.

But it has to be mentioned nonetheless, because if the target change hadn't occured there would be no town explanation for this. However, there is the possibility of the switches being because of the target.

Now that we know sandro is red and see the logs this possibility is a lot more likely to me than BC and sandro sitting at home for 6 hours and faking a conversation log.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 11:06 GMT
#3539
On January 22 2012 19:48 p4NDemik wrote:
Ok so IEM Kiev last day is starting and Zenio is still in it so I think I'll stay awake for the moment or at least until Zenio is eliminated.

JayJay54 why would sandroba not vote for BC in the vote thread? BC was the only candidate who wasn't going to lynch scum. It looks like an actual mafia mistake. I have not marked all of the vote-hoppers as scum. I list them as suspect. supersoft is the only one I am sure is scum along with BC and Foolishness (almost just as likely as supersoft). I don't think a last minute vote switch is something that is going to garner more town support at all. We saw vote switches stall Protactinium's campaign and indecision and vote switching is sketchier the closer you get to the deadline. The circumstances of this "compromise" made it even more suspect in my eyes. I don't see how this is a good arguing point saying these votes are more likely to be town and BC is more likely to be town.

Logs can and have been faked before. I've seen it in games. Other people have attested to seeing it happen in games. Other people in this thread have attested to doing it themselves in games. BC is gutsy mafia. This is something he would do. Again not a reason to ignore my case for BC.

Yes, my analysis is good, and BM WANTED SCUM DEAD. Day 1! Why are you voting for him over the more suspect BC?


ok, so sandro is a mafia mistake. hmm.

Logs may be faked. But there is no reason to fake something that long. I copied it in MS Word and it has 20 pages. You seriously think they made up 20 pages??? And it is well faked. I actually think it would be hard to fake it in one day. It's like a 20 page essay and you have to think of like every line. If you take that Opz log, that would be something which could be fake...but not that huge thing.

you excuse BM because he wanted to lynch scum and list foolishness as "sure scum"? have you seen this post?
It is freaking on spot:

"9 Mafia remaining. Here's the preliminary suspects: Macpo, GGQ, L. These are the people I feel we have the best case for and most of the transparent people in the thread seem to agree about these 3. Personally I think GGQ is town and we should avoid lynching him for now. Protact already gave viable reasons why Macpo is better than GGQ today, and I feel there is little to argue there. sandroba pointed out how L is acting like in Ver's game, and I couldn't agree more. We also have Incog's analysis against L."

Is the first paragraph. L and Macpo listed as scum, GGQ leaning town. Posted January 17th 13:28 KST. It is pretty much the best post yet. And it was pretty early. So no, I absolutely don't think foolishness is scum.

And neither is BC. He'd be insane to fake 20 pages. The log didn't even make him green until sandro flipped red.

I really think that you genuinely think that, please reconsider. How much benefit he has from faking a 20 page log that well. It's insane.

For everyone who missed the log:

On January 16 2012 13:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As I said I would hand out my messages from yesterday I am throwing em up now. As a note the information containing the information for decrypting the message for bgs is obviously going to be missing.

Sandroba skype messages which will contain both game and unrelated game content.
+ Show Spoiler +

[13/01/2012 4:02:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: Yo james
[13/01/2012 4:03:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: I just got a pm saying you masoned me
[13/01/2012 4:03:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[13/01/2012 4:04:09 AM] Sandro Maculan: going to bed ttyl
[13/01/2012 11:57:17 AM] james: rawrrrrr
[13/01/2012 11:57:22 AM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 11:57:33 AM] james: i wasn't up at like 4am, its all good
[13/01/2012 11:57:39 AM] james: i sent my pm and went to bed
[13/01/2012 1:19:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: hey you there?
[13/01/2012 1:19:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: just woke up
[13/01/2012 1:20:00 PM] james: that I am
[13/01/2012 1:20:15 PM] james: I am now about to shoot myself in the foot, but well, i honestly think its needed
[13/01/2012 1:21:03 PM] Sandro Maculan: ?
[13/01/2012 1:21:07 PM] Sandro Maculan: i need to catch up
[13/01/2012 1:21:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm on page 26
[13/01/2012 1:21:28 PM] james: oh, i am going to be using the mason mechanic
[13/01/2012 1:21:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: why did you choose to mason me so early btw?
[13/01/2012 1:21:31 PM] james: as a way to generate discussion
[13/01/2012 1:21:32 PM] james: tbh
[13/01/2012 1:21:41 PM] james: you are one of the few people I talk to frequently in games
[13/01/2012 1:21:42 PM] james: or about games
[13/01/2012 1:21:45 PM] james: in the last 6 months
[13/01/2012 1:21:55 PM] james: of anyone else you will have a better read on me than most
[13/01/2012 1:22:17 PM] Sandro Maculan: well you are a tricky one for me to read tbh
[13/01/2012 1:22:25 PM] Sandro Maculan: I somehow always think you are mafia
[13/01/2012 1:22:30 PM] james: most people do
[13/01/2012 1:22:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: unless you are not
[13/01/2012 1:22:32 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[13/01/2012 1:22:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: this game I'm leaning town on you so far -_-
[13/01/2012 1:23:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: based on something silly tbh
[13/01/2012 1:23:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: like when i was typing my post of mayor campaign
[13/01/2012 1:23:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: you wrote something similar
[13/01/2012 1:24:04 PM] Sandro Maculan: like "mafia I'm comming for you"lol
[13/01/2012 1:24:18 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 1:24:19 PM] james: well
[13/01/2012 1:24:24 PM] james: im pretty sure the post im writing now
[13/01/2012 1:24:32 PM] james: will make people far easier to read
[13/01/2012 1:24:37 PM] james: including myself
[13/01/2012 1:24:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: k let me read the thread brb
[13/01/2012 1:25:18 PM] james: i havent put it up yet
[13/01/2012 1:25:25 PM] james: but as I am doing it
[13/01/2012 1:25:26 PM] james: im claiming mason in thread
[13/01/2012 1:25:33 PM] james: not revealing that i mason'd to you yet however
[13/01/2012 1:25:46 PM] james: I am doing it purely to generate discussion and primarily get people like foolishness
[13/01/2012 1:25:50 PM] james: or palmar, etc...
[13/01/2012 1:25:53 PM] james: all the vets
[13/01/2012 1:25:54 PM] james: to post
[13/01/2012 1:25:57 PM] james: they have to
[13/01/2012 1:26:02 PM] james: failure to mucks them badly
[13/01/2012 1:26:17 PM] Sandro Maculan: why hide that you masoned me?
[13/01/2012 1:26:35 PM] james: I'm not claiming it in the post
[13/01/2012 1:26:46 PM] james: im using this post as my claim post
[13/01/2012 1:26:53 PM] james: and will say I mason'd you in a one after it
[13/01/2012 1:26:58 PM] james: which you can confirm
[13/01/2012 1:33:32 PM] james: brb going to check on my foodstuffs
[13/01/2012 1:34:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: k wait mafia can sub in all bgs
[13/01/2012 1:35:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol that fucking sucks
[13/01/2012 1:47:40 PM] james: and now to see how people
[13/01/2012 1:47:41 PM] james: take my claim
[13/01/2012 1:48:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: i can't find in the op
[13/01/2012 1:48:18 PM] Sandro Maculan: how many bgs there will be
[13/01/2012 1:48:21 PM] james: bgs
[13/01/2012 1:48:24 PM] james: there are 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:25 PM] james: it states 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:30 PM] james: and says mafia can sub in
[13/01/2012 1:48:33 PM] Sandro Maculan: i can only see mafia can sub in max 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:35 PM] james: 0 1 or 2
[13/01/2012 1:48:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[13/01/2012 1:48:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: but where does it say it's 2 total?
[13/01/2012 1:49:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: if it's only 2 that's way too fucking imba
[13/01/2012 1:52:13 PM] james: worked fine in the lounge game
[13/01/2012 1:52:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm going to incorporate jackal's plan
[13/01/2012 1:52:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: seems good
[13/01/2012 1:52:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm going to lynch 1 or 0 bgs
[13/01/2012 1:54:11 PM] james: well, if i dont get elected ill prob be the day 1 lynch now, however
[13/01/2012 1:54:14 PM] james: if i'm not
[13/01/2012 1:54:19 PM] james: mafia get to have fun dealing with me
[13/01/2012 1:55:02 PM] Sandro Maculan: on one hand being mason prob makes you more likely to be mafia
[13/01/2012 1:55:17 PM] james: on the other
[13/01/2012 1:55:19 PM] james: if im town
[13/01/2012 1:55:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: on the other hand mafia isn't likely to claim that shit
[13/01/2012 1:55:27 PM] james: it limits what other masons can do
[13/01/2012 1:55:31 PM] james: as in if i die and flip blue
[13/01/2012 1:55:32 PM] james: other mafia go
[13/01/2012 1:55:41 PM] james: "oh shit if we mason we might die"
[13/01/2012 1:55:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: on an extra third alien hand it's you and you are crazy so who knows
[13/01/2012 1:55:51 PM] james: as i lower the possible pool
[13/01/2012 1:55:54 PM] james: im figuring
[13/01/2012 1:55:59 PM] james: there are 3-4 masons at most
[13/01/2012 1:56:03 PM] james: and at least 1 is red
[13/01/2012 1:56:17 PM] james: by outing myself now
[13/01/2012 1:56:22 PM] james: if i dont get elected
[13/01/2012 1:56:33 PM] james: mafia shooting me becomes annoying as it removes the cover
[13/01/2012 1:56:35 PM] james: they have for their player
[13/01/2012 1:56:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: I dunno about how many masons there are
[13/01/2012 1:56:45 PM] james: it also forces them potentially to waste a frame on me
[13/01/2012 1:56:48 PM] james: i dont know for sure
[13/01/2012 1:56:51 PM] james: im speculateing
[13/01/2012 1:56:55 PM] Sandro Maculan: fw wanted a pm game so maybe there is more
[13/01/2012 1:56:56 PM] james: I know fw took the lounge mafia setup
[13/01/2012 1:56:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: I would think
[13/01/2012 1:57:04 PM] james: and tweaked it slightly
[13/01/2012 1:57:45 PM] james: do you agree it is something people should have actively discussed however? I mean, with only a select group of players being able to pm others
[13/01/2012 1:58:04 PM] james: thats a huge amount of potential issues
[13/01/2012 1:58:06 PM] james: late game
[13/01/2012 1:58:12 PM] james: if its not dealt with early
[13/01/2012 1:58:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: we should keep discussion in thread as much as possible I agree
[13/01/2012 1:58:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: we can bump off ideas here and the post before you off me at night
[13/01/2012 1:59:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[13/01/2012 1:59:19 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 1:59:23 PM] james: why would I off you
[13/01/2012 1:59:36 PM] james: day 1 lynch on a complete asshole
[13/01/2012 1:59:39 PM] james: or scum player
[13/01/2012 2:14:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[13/01/2012 2:14:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: this mason claim looks promissing
[13/01/2012 2:15:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: I think mason mass claim could work
[13/01/2012 2:15:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: mafia will have to claim it if they ever want to use it
[13/01/2012 2:15:43 PM] james: yep
[13/01/2012 2:16:04 PM] Sandro Maculan: and it will generate a lot of discussion
[13/01/2012 2:16:11 PM] james: the discussion is key
[13/01/2012 2:16:14 PM] james: you have to have an opinion on it
[13/01/2012 2:27:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: k I'm caught up
[13/01/2012 2:36:54 PM] james: its an annoying read
[13/01/2012 2:37:00 PM] james: like 6 pages popped up when i went to bed for 6 hours
[13/01/2012 2:41:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: k let's think for a bit
[13/01/2012 2:41:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: what can mafia do if masons massclaim
[13/01/2012 2:42:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: they can claim alongside with the other townies
[13/01/2012 2:42:11 PM] james: fuck ton more scruitiny
[13/01/2012 2:42:13 PM] james: of their actions
[13/01/2012 2:42:20 PM] Sandro Maculan: or hide their mason an never use it
[13/01/2012 2:42:20 PM] james: they can claim to be town
[13/01/2012 2:42:23 PM] james: and never use a mason use
[13/01/2012 2:42:31 PM] james: which prevents them from manipulating behind scenes
[13/01/2012 2:42:32 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[13/01/2012 2:42:36 PM] james: or they claim mason
[13/01/2012 2:42:44 PM] james: and potentially die as everyone will be looking at us
[13/01/2012 2:42:45 PM] james: at all times
[13/01/2012 2:42:48 PM] Sandro Maculan: and honesttly
[13/01/2012 2:42:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck masons
[13/01/2012 2:42:53 PM] james: as they will have the entire mason pool
[13/01/2012 2:42:56 PM] james: pretty much
[13/01/2012 2:43:05 PM] james: potentially there is the chance
[13/01/2012 2:43:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's not that important role to protect it from hits
[13/01/2012 2:43:08 PM] james: that every mason is town
[13/01/2012 2:43:17 PM] james: but how many townies
[13/01/2012 2:43:20 PM] james: can actually use it well?
[13/01/2012 2:43:32 PM] james: its such a high skill required role
[13/01/2012 2:43:33 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah and it's nice and all
[13/01/2012 2:43:36 PM] james: and in its current form
[13/01/2012 2:43:38 PM] james: only benefits mafia
[13/01/2012 2:43:48 PM] Sandro Maculan: but I'd rather lose a mason than any other blue
[13/01/2012 2:44:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: so if mafia wants to waste kp on them be my guest
[13/01/2012 2:44:05 PM] james: pretty much
[13/01/2012 2:44:20 PM] Sandro Maculan: i don't see any drawbacks
[13/01/2012 2:44:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: aside from a possible mason witchunt
[13/01/2012 2:44:35 PM] james: why do people think
[13/01/2012 2:44:36 PM] james: im relying on my role
[13/01/2012 2:44:39 PM] james: to get elected?
[13/01/2012 2:44:42 PM] james: i already stated
[13/01/2012 2:44:45 PM] james: it doesnt matter if i do or dont
[13/01/2012 2:44:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[13/01/2012 2:44:47 PM] james: rofl
[13/01/2012 2:44:53 PM] james: i never once said
[13/01/2012 2:44:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: if you are mafia fuck you
[13/01/2012 2:44:58 PM] james: "im not going to get elected
[13/01/2012 2:45:02 PM] james: vote for me cause im mason"
[13/01/2012 2:45:02 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm almost sure you are town lol
[13/01/2012 2:45:11 PM] james: i do some ballsy shit as red
[13/01/2012 2:45:14 PM] james: i will give that to people
[13/01/2012 2:45:17 PM] james: but out myself
[13/01/2012 2:45:20 PM] james: so blatently
[13/01/2012 2:45:24 PM] james: and fuck my entire team over?
[13/01/2012 2:45:40 PM] james: theres no gain in that as im now so heavily in the spotlight
[13/01/2012 2:45:47 PM] james: i am now more likely to get offed by town
[13/01/2012 2:45:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[13/01/2012 2:45:59 PM] Sandro Maculan: you would prob get elected either way
[13/01/2012 2:46:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: why would you ever do this as mafia
[13/01/2012 2:46:08 PM] james: yea
[13/01/2012 2:46:11 PM] james: also
[13/01/2012 2:46:13 PM] james: cybercheese
[13/01/2012 2:46:15 PM] james: and toad
[13/01/2012 2:46:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[13/01/2012 2:46:17 PM] james: are shifty as fuck
[13/01/2012 2:46:22 PM] james: -_- responses to my
[13/01/2012 2:46:23 PM] james: claim
[13/01/2012 2:46:27 PM] james: are exactly the shit i was hoping for
[13/01/2012 2:46:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: i like the ciryandor case
[13/01/2012 2:46:47 PM] Sandro Maculan: cyber seems shifty too
[13/01/2012 2:46:48 PM] james: i want to see ciryandor post more
[13/01/2012 2:46:50 PM] james: tbh
[13/01/2012 2:46:54 PM] james: because he seems red
[13/01/2012 2:46:57 PM] james: but due to such shitty play
[13/01/2012 2:47:02 PM] james: most likely a red will coach him
[13/01/2012 2:47:03 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm actually okay with toad
[13/01/2012 2:47:06 PM] james: to make him sound not terrible
[13/01/2012 2:47:15 PM] james: and gives me a read on his coach
[13/01/2012 2:47:16 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 2:47:22 PM] james: palmar shouldn't be this apathetic
[13/01/2012 2:47:24 PM] james: as a townie
[13/01/2012 2:47:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: well his saving grace is agreeing with proact
[13/01/2012 2:47:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: which i also agree
[13/01/2012 2:47:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: but yeah he needs to step up
[13/01/2012 2:48:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'll give him time to do it on his own before I push for him
[13/01/2012 2:48:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: he usually gets to posting midway through day1 if he is town
[13/01/2012 2:52:42 PM] james: yea
[13/01/2012 2:52:44 PM] james: this is true
[13/01/2012 3:04:25 PM] Sandro Maculan: brb
[13/01/2012 3:26:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol shit
[13/01/2012 3:26:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: man why don't epople think like i do
[13/01/2012 3:28:57 PM] james: bum saw
[13/01/2012 3:29:05 PM] james: exactly the reason why id be nervous of red masons
[13/01/2012 3:29:07 PM] james: from OP
[13/01/2012 3:29:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: typing a post sec
[13/01/2012 3:41:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: and why is that
[13/01/2012 3:42:13 PM] james: they choose
[13/01/2012 3:42:31 PM] james: if they fail to by end of day 1
[13/01/2012 3:42:34 PM] james: its random'd
[13/01/2012 3:43:08 PM] Sandro Maculan: prb not an issue though
[13/01/2012 3:43:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: why would they ever fail to choose it
[13/01/2012 3:43:32 PM] james: exactly
[13/01/2012 3:43:33 PM] james: lol
[13/01/2012 3:44:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: i think mafia would prob have their mason(s) selected soon
[13/01/2012 3:45:22 PM] Sandro Maculan: and if this movement gets strong they will quickly mason someone
[13/01/2012 3:46:48 PM] james: yea
[13/01/2012 3:46:50 PM] james: they will have to
[13/01/2012 3:47:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck man i'm liking this plan more and more
[13/01/2012 3:47:43 PM] james: i was thinking on it last night
[13/01/2012 3:47:45 PM] james: and like
[13/01/2012 3:47:50 PM] james: I could die because of it
[13/01/2012 3:47:58 PM] james: but its still so solid
[13/01/2012 3:47:59 PM] james: for town
[13/01/2012 3:48:06 PM] james: my death to fuck mafia in the ass with a rake?
[13/01/2012 3:48:12 PM] james: seems legit trade with 40 townies
[13/01/2012 3:49:14 PM] Sandro Maculan: nah man
[13/01/2012 3:49:28 PM] james: there are enough big namers
[13/01/2012 3:49:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: i won't let anyone important get lynched day1
[13/01/2012 3:49:30 PM] james: in this game
[13/01/2012 3:49:37 PM] james: well i could easily get shot'
[13/01/2012 3:49:38 PM] james: as well
[13/01/2012 3:49:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: look at what happened last huge game
[13/01/2012 3:49:47 PM] james: -_- i was so wrong
[13/01/2012 3:49:49 PM] james: that game
[13/01/2012 3:49:52 PM] james: except on a few gut shot reads
[13/01/2012 3:49:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: mafia raped all vets night 1
[13/01/2012 3:50:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: we have to wait a bit for them to thin out / get medic ' ed etc before going into that pool
[13/01/2012 3:50:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's the best play
[13/01/2012 3:51:39 PM] james: i didnt see any downsides
[13/01/2012 3:51:50 PM] james: then again i could be missing a giant hole somewhere
[13/01/2012 3:59:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: nah I've thought it through
[13/01/2012 4:00:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: there are no holes
[13/01/2012 4:14:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol you seem quite popular now
[13/01/2012 4:19:42 PM] james: haha
[13/01/2012 4:19:43 PM] james: apparently
[14/01/2012 1:24:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: yo
[14/01/2012 1:24:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm back you here?
[14/01/2012 1:24:54 AM] james: yea typing up a post now
[14/01/2012 1:25:21 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm catching up
[14/01/2012 1:25:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: still on page 40
[14/01/2012 1:25:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: and quite drunk
[14/01/2012 1:26:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: wow
[14/01/2012 1:26:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: proactinum thinks you are scum
[14/01/2012 1:26:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: are you mafia?
[14/01/2012 1:26:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: tell me I wont remember tomorrow
[14/01/2012 1:26:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: i promise not to check logs
[14/01/2012 1:27:17 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 1:27:17 AM] james: im not
[14/01/2012 1:27:19 AM] james: protrac
[14/01/2012 1:27:22 AM] james: just outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:27:23 AM] james: hard
[14/01/2012 1:27:23 AM] james: though
[14/01/2012 1:27:27 AM] james: so fucking obvious
[14/01/2012 1:27:41 AM] james: i say this because
[14/01/2012 1:27:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: I really thought he was town though
[14/01/2012 1:27:45 AM] james: if anyone thinks thats mystlord
[14/01/2012 1:27:47 AM] james: they are dumb as hell
[14/01/2012 1:27:48 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 1:27:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: from his frist post and second
[14/01/2012 1:28:03 AM] james: the post against me
[14/01/2012 1:28:05 AM] james: is incog
[14/01/2012 1:28:11 AM] james: and incog is firmly in
[14/01/2012 1:28:15 AM] james: the anti pm bandwagon
[14/01/2012 1:28:15 AM] james: for town
[14/01/2012 1:28:22 AM] Sandro Maculan: no
[14/01/2012 1:28:25 AM] james: no i mean
[14/01/2012 1:28:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is against the anti pm
[14/01/2012 1:28:29 AM] james: if you talk to him
[14/01/2012 1:28:33 AM] james: outside of this game
[14/01/2012 1:28:35 AM] Sandro Maculan: he thinkis you are for it
[14/01/2012 1:28:37 AM] james: he hates pm
[14/01/2012 1:28:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: and thus mafia
[14/01/2012 1:28:45 AM] james: which is how he outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:28:54 AM] james: his belief in people properly using pms
[14/01/2012 1:28:55 AM] james: is fucking horrid
[14/01/2012 1:29:02 AM] james: fw
[14/01/2012 1:29:04 AM] james: and I
[14/01/2012 1:29:06 AM] james: are the top 2 people
[14/01/2012 1:29:08 AM] james: who like pms
[14/01/2012 1:29:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:29:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: this discussion
[14/01/2012 1:29:13 AM] james: in general
[14/01/2012 1:29:15 AM] james: i hate masons
[14/01/2012 1:29:19 AM] Sandro Maculan: is fucking useless day1
[14/01/2012 1:29:21 AM] james: nah
[14/01/2012 1:29:24 AM] james: incog
[14/01/2012 1:29:25 AM] james: just
[14/01/2012 1:29:26 AM] james: outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:29:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: maybe he is mafia for not realising that
[14/01/2012 1:29:31 AM] james: to me anyway
[14/01/2012 1:29:35 AM] james: to me
[14/01/2012 1:29:39 AM] james: thats a hugeeeee
[14/01/2012 1:29:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: vets are going to get shot the fuck out
[14/01/2012 1:29:40 AM] james: bit
[14/01/2012 1:29:41 AM] james: also
[14/01/2012 1:29:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: fast
[14/01/2012 1:29:43 AM] james: adam
[14/01/2012 1:29:45 AM] james: + wbg
[14/01/2012 1:29:48 AM] james: link to protrac
[14/01/2012 1:29:51 AM] james: so does ciryandor
[14/01/2012 1:29:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: ?
[14/01/2012 1:29:57 AM] james: do i think all are red? no
[14/01/2012 1:29:59 AM] james: but they all link
[14/01/2012 1:30:08 AM] james: protrac has done nothing to garner votes
[14/01/2012 1:30:09 AM] james: but tunnel people
[14/01/2012 1:30:09 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:30:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: protact
[14/01/2012 1:30:16 AM] james: first people to jump on his nuts
[14/01/2012 1:30:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: if he is mafia he has balls
[14/01/2012 1:30:20 AM] james: with 0 grounds
[14/01/2012 1:30:23 AM] james: well
[14/01/2012 1:30:25 AM] james: it is incog
[14/01/2012 1:30:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is the most out there mothefucker
[14/01/2012 1:30:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: you + him are my strongest town reads atm
[14/01/2012 1:30:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: balss =/= mafia
[14/01/2012 1:31:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: even you when red you play more conservatively
[14/01/2012 1:31:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: of course i can be fooled and mistaken
[14/01/2012 1:31:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: but i gotta go with my guts
[14/01/2012 1:31:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: and they say you plus him are town right now
[14/01/2012 1:38:25 AM] james: i appreciate that, I now have to dig
[14/01/2012 1:38:29 AM] james: through friggen aim logs
[14/01/2012 1:38:29 AM] james: on incog
[14/01/2012 1:38:32 AM] james: fuuuuck
[14/01/2012 1:39:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: ?
[14/01/2012 1:39:29 AM] james: to quote his view
[14/01/2012 1:39:30 AM] james: of pms
[14/01/2012 1:39:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: he masoned you too?\
[14/01/2012 1:40:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: just made a beatiful post
[14/01/2012 1:40:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm quite proud of it
[14/01/2012 1:59:06 AM] james: the obvious drunk post?
[14/01/2012 1:59:17 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:59:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: it all makes sense
[14/01/2012 1:59:33 AM] Sandro Maculan: being drunk is very enlightening
[14/01/2012 2:00:13 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:00:28 AM] Sandro Maculan: seriously
[14/01/2012 2:00:29 AM] james: more like it makes everything more fun
[14/01/2012 2:00:57 AM] Sandro Maculan: are you still playing lol btw?
[14/01/2012 2:01:05 AM] james: eh not really
[14/01/2012 2:01:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: been some time since i last messed with it
[14/01/2012 2:01:08 AM] james: star wars has stolen my time
[14/01/2012 2:01:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: haven't had the time
[14/01/2012 2:01:23 AM] james: play so much star wars now
[14/01/2012 2:01:33 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 2:01:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm studying human behavior
[14/01/2012 2:01:54 AM] james: that sounds useful
[14/01/2012 2:02:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: and chicks were never that easy
[14/01/2012 2:02:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm lacking time to foucs on other shit
[14/01/2012 2:03:03 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:03:05 AM] james: chicks are dumb
[14/01/2012 2:03:11 AM] james: booze = make them easy
[14/01/2012 2:03:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: nah man
[14/01/2012 2:03:33 AM] Sandro Maculan: they are like dogs
[14/01/2012 2:03:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: they respond to standard shit
[14/01/2012 2:03:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: if you behave a certain way they jump on you
[14/01/2012 2:05:21 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:05:28 AM] james: and sandro is manipulating teh womenzorz
[14/01/2012 2:05:32 AM] james: to spread legs
[14/01/2012 2:07:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's pretty exciting if you ask me
[14/01/2012 2:07:14 AM] james: hahaha
[14/01/2012 2:07:15 AM] james: aye
[14/01/2012 2:07:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[14/01/2012 2:08:15 AM] Sandro Maculan: man where the fuck is l
[14/01/2012 2:08:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: is he supposed to be really good?
[14/01/2012 2:08:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: isn't
[14/01/2012 2:09:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: fucking mafia always kills me b4 i get a chance to do anything
[14/01/2012 2:10:53 AM] james: L is an oldschool vet
[14/01/2012 2:10:59 AM] james: who is usually meh town
[14/01/2012 2:11:02 AM] james: and solid mafia
[14/01/2012 2:11:05 AM] james: the thing is
[14/01/2012 2:11:06 AM] james: in this setup
[14/01/2012 2:11:13 AM] james: the only people who excel at pms
[14/01/2012 2:11:22 AM] james: would all fuck town sideways as red
[14/01/2012 2:11:23 AM] james: in pms
[14/01/2012 2:11:36 AM] james: if anyone of them is red, regardless of who the red mason is
[14/01/2012 2:11:41 AM] james: pms can be easy crafted
[14/01/2012 2:11:46 AM] Sandro Maculan: who would those be?
[14/01/2012 2:12:05 AM] james: incog, myself, meapak should be able to, L
[14/01/2012 2:12:06 AM] Sandro Maculan: only you and rafiled have fucked me over pms so far
[14/01/2012 2:12:09 AM] james: bum should be able to
[14/01/2012 2:12:21 AM] james: d3 should be able to
[14/01/2012 2:12:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: d3?
[14/01/2012 2:12:33 AM] james: d3_crentia
[14/01/2012 2:12:37 AM] james: hes played for ages]
[14/01/2012 2:12:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: never heard of him
[14/01/2012 2:12:42 AM] james: was in the latest lounge mafia game
[14/01/2012 2:12:49 AM] james: where he got manhandeled in pms
[14/01/2012 2:12:51 AM] james: and irl
[14/01/2012 2:12:56 AM] james: by his betters
[14/01/2012 2:13:01 AM] james: but his ability to play
[14/01/2012 2:13:05 AM] james: is far above most of tls members
[14/01/2012 2:13:06 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 2:13:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: i think you have to really like being mafia to be good at it
[14/01/2012 2:13:29 AM] james: at pm manipulation?
[14/01/2012 2:13:36 AM] Sandro Maculan: like when i roll mafia I feel like giving up
[14/01/2012 2:13:38 AM] james: the "core" group of vets
[14/01/2012 2:13:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: like mafia xlviii
[14/01/2012 2:13:43 AM] james: who can manipulate learned it
[14/01/2012 2:13:52 AM] james: via testing eachother like mad
[14/01/2012 2:13:54 AM] james: in pm circles
[14/01/2012 2:13:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: i don't even like winning as mafia
[14/01/2012 2:13:56 AM] james: to play find the red
[14/01/2012 2:14:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: doesn't feel as good
[14/01/2012 2:14:05 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:14:10 AM] james: i like proving
[14/01/2012 2:14:15 AM] james: tl towns are bad when im red
[14/01/2012 2:14:22 AM] james: since tl towns win a game using shitty reasoning
[14/01/2012 2:14:24 AM] Sandro Maculan: i like proving they are good!
[14/01/2012 2:14:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[14/01/2012 2:14:33 AM] james: and keep doing it because it fluked once
[14/01/2012 2:14:35 AM] james: or twice
[14/01/2012 2:14:38 AM] james: then a vet come sin
[14/01/2012 2:14:40 AM] james: and goes
[14/01/2012 2:14:44 AM] james: "rawrrrr raped you hard"
[14/01/2012 2:14:57 AM] james: then town doesnt learn -_-
[14/01/2012 2:14:58 AM] james: other than
[14/01/2012 2:15:00 AM] james: vets = op
[14/01/2012 2:15:01 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:15:03 AM] Sandro Maculan: hmm you hurt my ego by saying that
[14/01/2012 2:15:10 AM] james: your an exception
[14/01/2012 2:15:14 AM] james: but like
[14/01/2012 2:15:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: i like to think we are pretty decent =P
[14/01/2012 2:15:18 AM] james: you can see what I mean right?
[14/01/2012 2:15:25 AM] james: that faultly reasoning is getting used
[14/01/2012 2:15:27 AM] james: frequently
[14/01/2012 2:15:30 AM] james: by the same people?
[14/01/2012 2:15:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah i ignore 80% of people's opinions in game
[14/01/2012 2:15:53 AM] Sandro Maculan: some players i don't even bother to read what they post
[14/01/2012 2:16:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: but there are some that i can really tell apart
[14/01/2012 2:16:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: if you are bad as town it feels like it's too easy to be mafia
[14/01/2012 2:16:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: cuz no one expects any better from you
[14/01/2012 2:17:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: so whenever i roll mafia it's like a burden
[14/01/2012 2:17:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: and when i roll town it's like vacations =)
[14/01/2012 2:18:17 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:18:23 AM] james: i view being mafia a challenge
[14/01/2012 2:18:37 AM] james: and honestly have learned more by being red
[14/01/2012 2:18:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: dunno
[14/01/2012 2:18:39 AM] james: than from town
[14/01/2012 2:18:43 AM] Sandro Maculan: i view town as a challenge
[14/01/2012 2:18:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: nailing scum feels so good
[14/01/2012 2:18:55 AM] james: oh it does
[14/01/2012 2:19:01 AM] james: pyp3 was the more infuriating / gratifying experience
[14/01/2012 2:19:04 AM] james: i have had as town
[14/01/2012 2:19:07 AM] james: nailed every red
[14/01/2012 2:19:10 AM] james: traitor
[14/01/2012 2:19:12 AM] james: and both sk's
[14/01/2012 2:19:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah you feel like a boss\
[14/01/2012 2:19:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: most games i do okay
[14/01/2012 2:19:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: I get good day1 reads and after i realise I was right i fell so good
[14/01/2012 2:20:03 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's awesome
[14/01/2012 2:20:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: when mafia i just feel people were fools not to catch me
[14/01/2012 2:21:00 AM] james: eh
[14/01/2012 2:21:13 AM] james: im always surprised when im not catched
[14/01/2012 2:21:18 AM] james: although My style ensures i die
[14/01/2012 2:21:19 AM] james: always
[14/01/2012 2:21:57 AM] Sandro Maculan: next time i roll mafia
[14/01/2012 2:22:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm going to be the summiest mofo on earth and not give a fuck
[14/01/2012 2:22:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: like my first games i didn't care what people would think
[14/01/2012 2:23:40 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:23:44 AM] james: good policy
[14/01/2012 2:23:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: man seriously
[14/01/2012 2:24:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: why would people not vote for me
[14/01/2012 2:24:21 AM] james: your not being the typical convincing roba
[14/01/2012 2:24:22 AM] Sandro Maculan: so far i got like 1 vote
[14/01/2012 2:24:25 AM] james: you appear really halfassed
[14/01/2012 2:24:27 AM] james: so far in thread
[14/01/2012 2:24:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[14/01/2012 2:24:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's the typical me
[14/01/2012 2:24:43 AM] james: or that you are making the round of running for office
[14/01/2012 2:24:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: i don't care for walls
[14/01/2012 2:24:46 AM] james: with 0 effort
[14/01/2012 2:24:47 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:27:53 AM] Sandro Maculan: hmmm
[14/01/2012 2:28:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: i think i put in effort when it's needed
[14/01/2012 2:28:10 AM] Sandro Maculan: i don't like discussing random shit that leads nowhere
[14/01/2012 2:29:26 AM] james: didnt you use to post more, or is it that we just talk alot that i assume you do? lol
[14/01/2012 2:29:37 AM] james: also brb
[14/01/2012 2:30:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: the time i dedicate to mafia is proportional of the time I'm at home doing nothing
[14/01/2012 2:30:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: so yeah when there is less good shit to do i post more
[14/01/2012 2:32:15 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 2:48:59 AM] james: that post was more boss
[14/01/2012 2:49:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: =)
[14/01/2012 2:56:32 AM] Sandro Maculan: fuck palmar man
[14/01/2012 2:56:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is taking too long
[14/01/2012 2:56:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: maybe he is mafia
[14/01/2012 2:58:08 AM] james: hes realllllly apathetic this game
[14/01/2012 2:58:10 AM] james: for some reason
[14/01/2012 2:58:12 AM] james: not like gms game
[14/01/2012 2:58:13 AM] james: at all
[14/01/2012 3:00:28 AM] Sandro Maculan: rofl
[14/01/2012 3:00:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: did you watch
[14/01/2012 3:00:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: the uszat dude interviewing players?
[14/01/2012 3:06:28 AM] james: nope
[14/01/2012 3:06:33 AM] james: i rarely watch streams or vids on tl now
[14/01/2012 3:06:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: rfo
[14/01/2012 3:07:00 AM] james: rfo?
[14/01/2012 3:07:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: rofl
[14/01/2012 3:07:15 AM] Sandro Maculan: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303115#6
[14/01/2012 3:07:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: watch this
[14/01/2012 3:07:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: will not dissapoint
[14/01/2012 3:14:15 AM] james: thats carmac trolling people? rofl
[14/01/2012 3:14:55 AM] james: or someone that carmac
[14/01/2012 3:14:59 AM] james: just found vids of?
[14/01/2012 3:37:35 AM] james: and heading to bed, ttyl
[14/01/2012 3:06:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: man I have 1 hour before i go out again and need to catch up
[14/01/2012 3:06:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: you here?
[14/01/2012 3:07:17 PM] james: -_-
[14/01/2012 3:07:18 PM] james: ve claimed jack
[14/01/2012 3:07:24 PM] james: mattchew was modkilled
[14/01/2012 3:07:25 PM] james: for being a dumbfuck
[14/01/2012 3:07:32 PM] james: we are no where closer to getting shit solved
[14/01/2012 3:07:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: I', still on page 50 =(
[14/01/2012 3:07:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: and don't quite remember last night
[14/01/2012 3:07:51 PM] james: you were kinda drunk
[14/01/2012 3:07:54 PM] james: drunk man mc drunk
[14/01/2012 3:08:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: i was kinda totally drunk
[14/01/2012 3:08:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: out of my mind
[14/01/2012 3:08:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[14/01/2012 3:08:16 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:08:21 PM] james: thats not normal?
[14/01/2012 3:08:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's quite standard for my weekends =P
[14/01/2012 3:08:45 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:08:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: i do enjoy my vodka
[14/01/2012 3:12:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: who are you lynching btw
[14/01/2012 3:12:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: i need to vote cuz i won't have the time later
[14/01/2012 3:17:17 PM] james: most likely incog
[14/01/2012 3:17:21 PM] james: unless someone fucks up in thread
[14/01/2012 3:17:23 PM] james: between now and then
[14/01/2012 3:17:32 PM] james: 3 posts since the start of a game day
[14/01/2012 3:17:34 PM] james: is inexcusable
[14/01/2012 3:17:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[14/01/2012 3:17:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: then I'm not voting for you
[14/01/2012 3:17:50 PM] james: where 1 was a purposeful misrepresentation of facts
[14/01/2012 3:17:55 PM] james: and continued a discussion round me
[14/01/2012 3:17:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's quite silly to lynch him day1 man
[14/01/2012 3:17:59 PM] james: as opposed to around masons
[14/01/2012 3:18:00 PM] james: eh
[14/01/2012 3:18:09 PM] james: take you rpick, its him or foolishness
[14/01/2012 3:18:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: and he ddoesn't seem to give a fuck
[14/01/2012 3:18:14 PM] james: both are performing badly
[14/01/2012 3:18:16 PM] james: there are 2
[14/01/2012 3:18:17 PM] Sandro Maculan: which is a townie trait
[14/01/2012 3:18:17 PM] james: fucking people
[14/01/2012 3:18:18 PM] james: on
[14/01/2012 3:18:19 PM] james: 1
[14/01/2012 3:18:20 PM] james: account
[14/01/2012 3:18:27 PM] james: 3 posts
[14/01/2012 3:18:30 PM] james: is totaly inexcusable
[14/01/2012 3:18:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: well sure
[14/01/2012 3:18:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: let's give him one more day and watch him closely
[14/01/2012 3:18:52 PM] james: given that he has not contributed anything and is solely being disruptive?
[14/01/2012 3:19:00 PM] james: and foolishness? who openly admitted
[14/01/2012 3:19:02 PM] Sandro Maculan: lynching him day1 is an statistical mistake
[14/01/2012 3:19:07 PM] james: that he wants a mayor in power
[14/01/2012 3:19:08 PM] james: that he can manipulate?
[14/01/2012 3:19:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: man even so
[14/01/2012 3:19:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: that's not something mafia would say openly
[14/01/2012 3:19:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's like your claim
[14/01/2012 3:19:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: it draws suspcion onto you
[14/01/2012 3:19:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: which makes you less likely mafia
[14/01/2012 3:20:22 PM] james: foolishness
[14/01/2012 3:20:24 PM] james: didnt say it openly
[14/01/2012 3:20:26 PM] james: he said it in pms
[14/01/2012 3:20:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: let's wait for day 2 to lynch those guys
[14/01/2012 3:20:29 PM] james: and his mason
[14/01/2012 3:20:32 PM] james: gave out the pms
[14/01/2012 3:20:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: chances are if they are town mafia will shoot them regardless of how suspicious they are
[14/01/2012 3:20:46 PM] james: had mattchew not shared his pms before modkilled
[14/01/2012 3:20:48 PM] james: no one would have known
[14/01/2012 3:20:51 PM] james: possibly
[14/01/2012 3:21:01 PM] james: near no one has posted though
[14/01/2012 3:21:07 PM] james: primarily only known names
[14/01/2012 3:21:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm guilty of that too
[14/01/2012 3:21:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: i have no time on weekends
[14/01/2012 3:21:48 PM] james: haha
[14/01/2012 3:21:58 PM] james: of the people who have posted day 1
[14/01/2012 3:22:02 PM] james: both of them are the most suspicious to me
[14/01/2012 3:22:06 PM] james: palmar is a handicap
[14/01/2012 3:22:10 PM] james: kurumi is trolling
[14/01/2012 3:22:15 PM] james: as kurumi always does
[14/01/2012 3:22:27 PM] james: the only "neutral" lynch i have is him
[14/01/2012 3:22:29 PM] james: for doing fuck all
[14/01/2012 3:22:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: kurumi trolls way less as mafia
[14/01/2012 3:22:39 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's a pretty good tell on him
[14/01/2012 3:22:40 PM] james: the only troll i abide by
[14/01/2012 3:22:42 PM] james: is chez
[14/01/2012 3:22:43 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:22:46 PM] Sandro Maculan: sure
[14/01/2012 3:22:48 PM] james: he actually contributes
[14/01/2012 3:22:51 PM] james: as a troll
[14/01/2012 3:23:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: kurumi is disrupitive, but if he is trolling a lot chances are he is town
[14/01/2012 3:24:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: we have to lynch not likely day1 targets
[14/01/2012 3:24:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: like cc and ciry
[14/01/2012 3:24:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: high chance to flip mafia and low chance to get shot if town
[14/01/2012 3:24:39 PM] Sandro Maculan: and we have to deal with them at some point
[14/01/2012 3:26:13 PM] james: eeh both have high chances
[14/01/2012 3:26:19 PM] james: of being shot
[14/01/2012 3:26:20 PM] james: atm imo
[14/01/2012 3:27:04 PM] Sandro Maculan: being shot by who?
[14/01/2012 3:27:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: vigis?
[14/01/2012 3:27:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: dunno vigis normally like to save it for later
[14/01/2012 3:28:34 PM] james: ve claims hes shooting cc
[14/01/2012 3:28:36 PM] james: or was anyway
[14/01/2012 3:31:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: what
[14/01/2012 3:32:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'm still on page 58
[14/01/2012 3:32:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: why did he claim who he is shooting
[14/01/2012 3:32:23 PM] Sandro Maculan: and why did he claim in the first palce?
[14/01/2012 3:33:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: rofl
[14/01/2012 3:33:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: seriously
[14/01/2012 3:33:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: he cclaims jack and doesn't eve know how it works
[14/01/2012 3:33:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: -_-
[14/01/2012 3:35:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: I want to vote for you cuz i don't really like the other options besides protact
[14/01/2012 3:35:44 PM] james: yea
[14/01/2012 3:35:47 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 3:35:48 PM] james: see
[14/01/2012 3:35:53 PM] Sandro Maculan: but he wants to lynch you and you him
[14/01/2012 3:35:57 PM] james: eh
[14/01/2012 3:36:02 PM] james: i have a list of like 4 people
[14/01/2012 3:36:03 PM] Sandro Maculan: that's dumb as fuck =P
[14/01/2012 3:36:04 PM] james: id lynch
[14/01/2012 3:36:06 PM] james: tbh
[14/01/2012 3:36:10 PM] james: he went for me
[14/01/2012 3:36:14 PM] james: on the shadiest shit
[14/01/2012 3:36:15 PM] james: in the world
[14/01/2012 3:36:19 PM] james: incog reads the OP's
[14/01/2012 3:36:21 PM] james: carefully
[14/01/2012 3:36:23 PM] james: and he misread it
[14/01/2012 3:36:28 PM] james: needed to pull a post I made
[14/01/2012 3:36:31 PM] james: outside of the game
[14/01/2012 3:36:35 PM] james: that he misrepresented?
[14/01/2012 3:36:42 PM] james: theres no way in hell
[14/01/2012 3:36:45 PM] james: thats a town incog
[14/01/2012 3:36:47 PM] james: he knows better
[14/01/2012 3:36:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: he's pretty good mafia then
[14/01/2012 3:37:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: cuz i got a strong town lean on him
[14/01/2012 3:37:10 PM] james: he has 3 posts
[14/01/2012 3:37:14 PM] Sandro Maculan: based on the way he posts his shit
[14/01/2012 3:37:14 PM] james: and has support
[14/01/2012 3:37:16 PM] james: on a stance of
[14/01/2012 3:37:24 PM] james: "ill lynch ciryandor" into "ill lynch bc"
[14/01/2012 3:37:31 PM] james: he posts
[14/01/2012 3:37:34 PM] james: analysis posts
[14/01/2012 3:37:42 PM] james: mafia thats easy to do
[14/01/2012 3:37:47 PM] james: he fucks up day 1
[14/01/2012 3:37:52 PM] james: whoops day 1 analysis dudes
[14/01/2012 3:37:54 PM] james: my bad
[14/01/2012 3:38:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: k if you really have a good case on him being scum and get elected you can push it day2 since you will be alive
[14/01/2012 3:38:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'll vote for you if you don't lynch into vets day1
[14/01/2012 3:39:48 PM] james: and who would you recommend?
[14/01/2012 3:39:53 PM] james: a random non talker?
[14/01/2012 3:39:57 PM] james: which we have a million of
[14/01/2012 3:40:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: i'd recomend a flip between one of your bgs
[14/01/2012 3:40:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: and ciryandor
[14/01/2012 3:40:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: maybe you can even say in thread
[14/01/2012 3:40:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: that you will lynch one of the bgs 50% of the time
[14/01/2012 3:40:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: and don't even roll
[14/01/2012 3:41:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: that's because mafia can sub bgs in and kill both elected roles without outing anyone
[14/01/2012 3:41:23 PM] james: ....................
[14/01/2012 3:41:25 PM] james: i can't
[14/01/2012 3:41:26 PM] james: lynch
[14/01/2012 3:41:27 PM] james: a bg
[14/01/2012 3:41:35 PM] james: the mayor lynch choice
[14/01/2012 3:41:37 PM] james: has to be in
[14/01/2012 3:41:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: you can threaten
[14/01/2012 3:41:38 PM] james: when you get
[14/01/2012 3:41:40 PM] james: elected
[14/01/2012 3:41:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: treathen
[14/01/2012 3:41:45 PM] james: ITS FULL OF SHIT
[14/01/2012 3:41:49 PM] james: bgs are chosen after lynch
[14/01/2012 3:41:56 PM] james: its a god damn lie
[14/01/2012 3:41:57 PM] Sandro Maculan: oh
[14/01/2012 3:42:06 PM] Sandro Maculan: i didn't know that
[14/01/2012 3:42:11 PM] james: fw always makes the mayor candidates
[14/01/2012 3:42:14 PM] james: send in the lynch choice
[14/01/2012 3:42:16 PM] james: like
[14/01/2012 3:42:19 PM] james: 1 hour ahead
[14/01/2012 3:42:20 PM] james: of the post
[14/01/2012 3:42:30 PM] james: so that someone dies within 5 minutes of deadline
[14/01/2012 3:42:36 PM] james: mafia then decides to sub in or not
[14/01/2012 3:42:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol then you need to out one of your bgs to me
[14/01/2012 3:42:38 PM] james: based on election results
[14/01/2012 3:42:45 PM] james: was pretty sure
[14/01/2012 3:42:50 PM] james: that I was going to do a cipher
[14/01/2012 3:42:57 PM] james: and hand 1 half to you, and the other half elsewhere
[14/01/2012 3:43:16 PM] james: in the event I die
[14/01/2012 3:43:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah seems like a plan
[14/01/2012 3:43:27 PM] Sandro Maculan: and tell the thread that i know
[14/01/2012 3:43:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: and whoever is the other person that know
[14/01/2012 3:43:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: s
[14/01/2012 3:43:50 PM] james: openly telling thread who the people are
[14/01/2012 3:43:53 PM] james: just means they die as well
[14/01/2012 3:43:53 PM] james: kik
[14/01/2012 3:43:55 PM] james: lol*
[14/01/2012 3:43:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: no man
[14/01/2012 3:44:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: unless you trust me and this other dude 100%
[14/01/2012 3:44:24 PM] Sandro Maculan: you have to tell the thread who has the info
[14/01/2012 3:44:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: not who are the bgs
[14/01/2012 3:44:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: that would be dumb
[14/01/2012 3:44:55 PM] james: its pretty obvious
[14/01/2012 3:45:01 PM] james: who id be handing it out to
[14/01/2012 3:45:19 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah the other dude that mason you
[14/01/2012 3:45:25 PM] Sandro Maculan: do you trust him?
[14/01/2012 3:45:46 PM] james: eh? enough with half a cipher
[14/01/2012 3:46:10 PM] james: say im elected and im town + sheriff is town
[14/01/2012 3:46:12 PM] james: i hand you + opz
[14/01/2012 3:46:15 PM] james: the info
[14/01/2012 3:46:19 PM] james: if both bgs die night 1
[14/01/2012 3:46:23 PM] james: you are both obviously red
[14/01/2012 3:46:35 PM] james: if myself + sheriff die night 1
[14/01/2012 3:46:37 PM] james: both bgs are red
[14/01/2012 3:46:47 PM] james: if you or opz dont come forward with the info
[14/01/2012 3:46:50 PM] james: we snagged another red
[14/01/2012 3:47:07 PM] james: if both bgs die while myself + sheriff are still alive
[14/01/2012 3:47:12 PM] james: likely 1 of is red
[14/01/2012 3:47:26 PM] james: or you and opz are
[14/01/2012 3:47:27 PM] james: regardless
[14/01/2012 3:47:34 PM] james: its either 1 or 2 reds
[14/01/2012 3:47:41 PM] james: in the case
[14/01/2012 3:47:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 3:47:46 PM] james: and having the names out
[14/01/2012 3:47:47 PM] Sandro Maculan: I can't be elected
[14/01/2012 3:47:49 PM] james: works as a deterent
[14/01/2012 3:47:54 PM] james: to shooting / subbing them
[14/01/2012 3:47:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: I won't be here for the lynch
[14/01/2012 3:48:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah seems good enough
[14/01/2012 3:49:22 PM] Sandro Maculan: day ends today right?
[14/01/2012 3:50:29 PM] james: uh let me check
[14/01/2012 3:51:02 PM] james: yea
[14/01/2012 3:51:20 PM] james: aksi
[14/01/2012 3:51:23 PM] james: also
[14/01/2012 3:51:27 PM] james: interesting move foolishness
[14/01/2012 3:51:40 PM] james: he voted me
[14/01/2012 3:51:41 PM] james: not bm
[14/01/2012 3:51:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: you are lynching protact 100%?
[14/01/2012 3:52:13 PM] james: not 100% no
[14/01/2012 3:53:12 PM] james: i have foolishness, palmar, protact, brownbear and wiggles
[14/01/2012 3:53:16 PM] james: on a list of possible red vets
[14/01/2012 3:53:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[14/01/2012 3:53:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: i want to lynch none of those
[14/01/2012 3:53:35 PM] james: most wont
[14/01/2012 3:53:41 PM] james: brownbear hasn't posted that I remember
[14/01/2012 3:53:47 PM] james: if i had to choose former mayor candidates
[14/01/2012 3:53:50 PM] james: is shoot slardar
[14/01/2012 3:53:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: bb might even get mkéd
[14/01/2012 3:53:53 PM] james: but hes so obviously not red
[14/01/2012 3:54:12 PM] james: so many vets have done
[14/01/2012 3:54:13 PM] Sandro Maculan: tbh i don't even remember reading his posts
[14/01/2012 3:54:15 PM] james: dick fuck all
[14/01/2012 4:01:44 PM] Sandro Maculan: man I'll compromise don't lynch fool or incog then you get my vote
[14/01/2012 4:04:25 PM] james: fine, ill agree to that
[14/01/2012 4:05:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: k gotta roll
[14/01/2012 4:05:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'd totally support palmar
[14/01/2012 4:06:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck him he is scum
[14/01/2012 4:07:01 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 4:17:56 PM] james: off to work be back later
[12:05:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: i'm back
[12:06:01 AM] Sandro Maculan: who got lynched
[12:11:43 AM] james: palmar flipped miller
[12:11:47 AM] james: and you almsot got modkilled i think
[12:11:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[12:12:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: just checked that
[12:12:03 AM] Sandro Maculan: =/
[12:12:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: i didn't even realize there was a voting thread
[12:12:23 AM] james: lol
[12:12:36 AM] Sandro Maculan: i saw plenty of people voting in thread
[12:12:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: and never checked
[12:12:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: fucking palmar man
[12:12:59 AM] james: least he was miller
[12:13:07 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[12:13:11 AM] Sandro Maculan: not as bad
[12:13:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: but sitll
[12:13:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: i was pretty sure he was mafia
[12:14:12 AM] james: im more comfortable with my read still
[12:14:14 AM] james: on incog
[12:14:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: incog is my second strongest read this game
[12:14:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: as town
[12:14:59 AM] james: why his flop
[12:15:02 AM] james: with no real reason
[12:15:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[12:15:09 AM] james: from me
[12:15:11 AM] james: to someone else?
[12:15:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: i did read that
[12:15:19 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's pretty normal as town
[12:15:23 AM] james: nah
[12:15:28 AM] james: his campaign run
[12:15:30 AM] Sandro Maculan: and pretty danm wierd if e is mafia
[12:15:30 AM] james: that picked up steam
[12:15:32 AM] james: was offing me
[12:15:41 AM] Sandro Maculan: mafia wants to keep their story straigh
[12:15:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: and draw the least amount of suspicion
[12:15:55 AM] james: eh? depends on the player
[12:15:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: nothing about his play screams mafia
[12:15:59 AM] james: doing things that are
[12:16:06 AM] james: "non standard cause they are bad"
[12:16:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: i read that game curu played in
[12:16:13 AM] james: is a valid strat
[12:16:14 AM] james: lol
[12:16:21 AM] Sandro Maculan: sure
[12:16:33 AM] james: vets routinely do things that are "wtfish" because they can get away with it when no one else can
[12:16:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: but they neve pull it off
[12:16:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: they always keep somewhat neutral
[12:17:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: dunno i used to thin k that way
[12:17:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: and thought you were mafia 2 games in which you were not
[12:17:26 AM] james: to be fair
[12:17:32 AM] james: regardless of my alignment
[12:17:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: mafia behaves similarly no matter how good they are supposed to be
[12:17:37 AM] james: people typically view my play
[12:17:38 AM] james: as red
[12:18:01 AM] Sandro Maculan: all my conspiracy theories
[12:18:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: like these guy is incredible mafia and must be doing yx
[12:18:22 AM] james: lol
[12:18:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: always prove to be wrong
[12:18:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: the simplest thing is most likely truth
[12:18:52 AM] james: usually
[12:18:59 AM] james: the exception is vet players
[12:19:10 AM] Sandro Maculan: nah
[12:19:11 AM] james: most vets dont play
[12:19:13 AM] james: fucked up
[12:19:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: they aren't
[12:19:15 AM] james: ace does
[12:19:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's hat i'm saying
[12:19:30 AM] Sandro Maculan: even ace
[12:19:31 AM] james: lol
[12:19:35 AM] james: ace does ballsy shit
[12:19:36 AM] james: in the open
[12:19:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: acts way more calmly when mafia
[12:19:47 AM] james: until you provke him
[12:19:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: when town he is way more out there
[12:19:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: nah man
[12:20:07 AM] james: im saying from experience
[12:20:13 AM] james: you can pressure him
[12:20:13 AM] james: hard
[12:20:18 AM] james: and by pressure i mean
[12:20:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah maybe you are right
[12:20:20 AM] james: argue like a champ
[12:20:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: i'm saying form experience too
[12:20:27 AM] james: till he gets super pissed
[12:20:28 AM] james: lol
[12:20:30 AM] james: it takes alot
[12:20:32 AM] james: and I mean alot
[12:22:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: man i need to sleep
[12:22:16 AM] james: haha
[12:22:17 AM] james: then crash
[12:22:37 AM] Sandro Maculan: i got woken up 4 hours after i hit the sac today
[12:22:57 AM] Sandro Maculan: i got home early toay cuz i was like a fucking zombie
[12:23:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: gnight man
[11:27:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: yo
[11:27:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: can we still talk?
[11:27:59 AM] Sandro Maculan: or it's only for the day?
[11:29:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: fucking. hung over.
[11:29:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: need. more. drinks.
[5:16:33 PM] james: we can yes


Opz
+ Show Spoiler +

Lmao @all the people who don't read your posts.

Original Message From BloodyC0bbler:
Thoughts on the entire push by incog to a) silence the mason debate and b) pressure of me?

I personally have a very negative read of him but that is off outside game reasons regarding the pm mechanic.

Hide nested quote -
Original Message From ~OpZ~:
That's exactly what I was thinking. Not to mention that DT checks can't even clarify us. seriously if someone dt'd you and it came up mafia, someone would probably scream GF. Idk.

Small thing I'm noticing is that Incog/Mystlord get a lot of support without having to post. lol.

Original Message From BloodyC0bbler:
with the rampant amount of games where townies give out information to mafia via pms or mafia manipulating people hardcore via them it just seems easier to make the roll near useless. If we could mason someone then talk to them all game it would be far far far better. As it isn't its near useless to town, huge pro to mafia.

Original Message From ~OpZ~:
I don't care much about being known publically. Whoo hoo, I'm a one day mason!! -_-

Best I can do is find a dt one day, have him lie and tell me he's townie, find a medic the next day, lie and tell me he's townie. Seriously I been thinking of how to make this role work my whole day at work and I came up blank, except just playing normal.

maybe everyone SHOULD just ignore pms....I used to do that all pm games I joined. lol.

Original Message From BloodyC0bbler:
I am generally respectful >.> generally.

as for publically claiming, i don't think it means getting elected, I honestly was expecting not to once I claimed.

Original Message From ~OpZ~:
What are the benefits of claiming mason with you in the thread? I was considering it myself, but I personally have no reason or wish to be elected as you. It demands more activity then I'm capable of at the moment.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 11:40 GMT
#3544
On January 22 2012 20:29 p4NDemik wrote:
Jayjay you are writing off the fact that one of the people BC could have been faking it is already confirmed scum. It is far easier to fake a conversation when you are both scum and roleplaying that you are town than it is to manufacture both sides of a log out of thin air. If it was hypothetically this long of a log in a game where he has to make up comments of a confirmed town and present them under scrutiny then yes I'd say no way he manufactured it.

I definitely think that they both could have manufactured it and roleplayed. if they are mafia and they are going this far to avoid a red name dying day 1 with everything relying on this interchange being genuine then yes they are going to roleplay and falsify logs. They are going to be pressed hard for them.


No actually I don't. I know that they sandro is confirmed and I know that a faking possibility is at hand.

A town - scum log to fake is not possible imo.

The thing that convinces me is the sheer length. There's no need to put so much effort in it. If I would fake it, I definitly would fake like 4 pages and that's it. And that'll work. It is convincing enough.

Look at the time stamps, look at how much time they spent! They were talking for like 5 hours straight. So the timestamps are real. Roleplaying for 5 hours? Just for the case sandro gets lynched? If sandro wasn't lynched that log is practically worthless. There is so little benefit and so much work?

Sorry p4n, that is just not real. No one would do that.

If they really spent 5 hours of their life "falsetalking" just in case one gets lynched, they need to chekc the life priorities
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 16:47 GMT
#3583
On January 23 2012 01:32 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 01:04 jaj22 wrote:
Google translate is fine, really. They're talking about whether I should be an orange read for flopping on Macpo and Sandroba at the end. To which I'd reply:

1. Macpo had something like 16 votes on him and was basically dead when I defended him. That would be some seriously dumb scum play. I eventually voted for him because he quit playing, like I said in the thread. I suspect scum had a lot more warning about that than I did.

2. I read a lot of Sandroba's games during day 3 to check his meta and came to the conclusion that he was at least plausible scum. Then he posted one drunken line in three days so I guessed he'd quit playing too.

I'm happier with those votes that my KingJames one, because I have a bad habit of reading people as scum just because they're abusive. I'd have voted GGQ otherwise in the situation though, and I'm pissed off at him for not trying even after Protact switched his read.



I'll check the macpo 16 vote thing later... you're orange that means don't lynch right now.


hey, thanks for including me <3

unfortunately, I got an application to finish today, it's a lot of work. I'll be rewarded with an internship at MAN hopefully real life stuff is more important

So I just scanned through your log real quick and will provide my opinions to it late tonight or tomorrow...

but the quick scan revealed that you didn't talk about BC/BM at all. Why is that?

Be back in some hours...

Go TOWN!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 17:56 GMT
#3597
On January 23 2012 02:43 Toadesstern wrote:
am I the only one thinking that claiming bullshit joat + not shooting + not being roleblocked + still alive d4 looks werd?


just stopping by. he claimed to be shot same day as you did iirc. and shots were missing indeed. no time to check myself...got to finish application
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 20:55 GMT
#3635
Quick post before I go back to work. maybe you werent RB because you were going to shoot CC and n3 they knew you were out of actions?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 21:30 GMT
#3644
Qp: Because they know he's DT and can easily RB him. Also, if he was scum he'd knew the exact role of sandro, too. So he knew either way and just choosed not to...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 22 2012 21:30 GMT
#3645
...tell town...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 11:43 GMT
#3736
On January 23 2012 17:56 Bill Murray wrote:
BC + OpZ both look bad for the d1 action with sandroba
I'm completely fine lynching there, he's on my scumlist

I'm going to retract my mad hatter claim. I should have already done it, but I don't want to go out as a liar, even if I have lied this game, so I want to come clean.

I only did it because to me, I was protecting a pro-town power role.
I have 2 jailkeeps left that I can use to lower mafia KP
Mafia wanted the 3 votes, they didn't want a crummy jailkeeper ability when they have a jack, mason, framer, and roleblocker
Mafia wanted the Politician. They wanted the Floridian. Do you guys want a recount?
I don't.

Sorry man. Thats just too much. You are done here. Even if you are town (and I highly doubt it), your play has been everything but helping town. Actions like you did deserve to be punished. My vote will rest on you till your done.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 12:47 GMT
#3746
On January 23 2012 20:55 Bill Murray wrote:
I'm a doctor
I haven't used a jailkeep the last 2 nights because I have been truly protecting Foolishness
say goodbye to your protection folks
I wouldnt normally ever claim doctor, but I feel like Im really going to be lynched
adios

a) you can do both, protect and jail
b) why didnt you claim medic in the first place?
.
This is your last day here sheriff. Pack your stuff and get out
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 14:11 GMT
#3758
On January 23 2012 22:55 Bill Murray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 21:47 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 23 2012 20:55 Bill Murray wrote:
I'm a doctor
I haven't used a jailkeep the last 2 nights because I have been truly protecting Foolishness
say goodbye to your protection folks
I wouldnt normally ever claim doctor, but I feel like Im really going to be lynched
adios

a) you can do both, protect and jail
b) why didnt you claim medic in the first place?
.
This is your last day here sheriff. Pack your stuff and get out

are you joking?
I could have been saving, and trying to snipe mafia PRs?
I am glad that I have saved 2 jailkeeps, then, I can keep 2 confirmed town alive in late game
why the hell are you all lynching me?!

So you just absolutely wasted one jail n1 then when it matters n2 you miss it. You make no sense at all. And why did you claim mad hatter instead of medic? why did you lie about the BG? This is bullshit and you know it. Maybe tomorrow you are a VET and survived a shot and claim that both BGs are scum. You cant be trusted and your play hurts town a lot. Thats why you are lynched and rightfully so.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 14:18 GMT
#3759
On January 23 2012 23:07 supersoft wrote:
how is lying hurting the town?
i hate these general rules that don't fit to the individual case!

go cwawe, tell me how his lying hurted the town?


Yea you're totally right, you are threatened so you falseclaim mad hatter and take the best player in the game hostage to stay alive isnt spreading discord and confusion at all. Totally helpful for town. If you cant convince them, blackmail them...

Lying itself is not scum yet. Its kinda normal I guess. But this BS here is just too much to be helpful. If he stays in the game hoe can you trust him and the discussions about him will continue to shroud real efforts. He has to go.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 16:08 GMT
#3772
On January 24 2012 00:55 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 00:53 Nisani201 wrote:
On January 23 2012 22:54 Bill Murray wrote:
If I was mafia, I would have substituted both bodyguards, and killed BC
Is BC dead? No. Because I can't kill anyone.

Erm, what? BC is mayor. You couldn't kill him even if you wanted to.

If both BGs are scum, scum can kill the mayor.


still makes no sense. he doesn't need to be scum for mafia to do so. It would work the same way if he was green. substitute BGs, kill BC.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 16:17 GMT
#3774
On January 23 2012 22:54 Bill Murray wrote:
Woe is me, a scumtell, indeed? I think not. I am sad that we couldn't reconcile our differences. Every case on me has involved some other person. Noone can have anything real on me, it's all just a fake twisting of my words. I have tried to step up, and lead, and it is really not my style this game. I don't know what to do. I'm not a "mechanics breaking" player, and I don't know if I can trust players like hiro.protaganist or Foolishness, and I know I couldn't trust trusted scumhunters BC and Inognito/Mystlore hydra because which of them did the mafia run?


You are kidding me right?

First of all, most cases involve interacting with other people. Why? Because it's the freaking game.

And no one had to twist your words. Your jail actions, you calls, you lies everything made no sense from a town point of view. All you did was nourish confusion which is something scum people do. It's ridiculous that you accuse people who made cases on you, because you played poorly.

@toad: I am finally back home on my pc, will read and comment the log within the next hours. Thanks for your patience
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 16:18 GMT
#3775
On January 24 2012 01:13 Jackal58 wrote:
No shit.


for some reason, he thought this was an arguement, dunno why.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 16:31 GMT
#3786
On January 24 2012 01:27 Bill Murray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 00:55 Jackal58 wrote:
On January 24 2012 00:53 Nisani201 wrote:
On January 23 2012 22:54 Bill Murray wrote:
If I was mafia, I would have substituted both bodyguards, and killed BC
Is BC dead? No. Because I can't kill anyone.

Erm, what? BC is mayor. You couldn't kill him even if you wanted to.

If both BGs are scum, scum can kill the mayor.

or, you know, them
considering i have the list
of two of them
and ive outted them in thread

if i was mafia i could just PM my mates


isn't that what you did to cwave?

also, did you place a large bet against yourself with your "too scummy to be scum" arguement? wtf?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 17:37 GMT
#3795
About the german log (reading it from the top and typing some comments on my way):

VE: yea, he’s hard to read. He’s overaggressive and I’ve no idea why. He pushes his own agenda really hard, I’m not sure if he wants to overcompensate, if you know what I mean. Might be scum.

Kita: uncontest shot n1. Clear Town.

Jayjay: yup that guy is clear town. He also posts awesome.

P4n: kind of had a townread on him, then he went on a little rampage yesterday or so. Still have a town read, but I’m not that sure anymore.

WBG: Null read. He’s very vocal. I feel I don’t know him enough to judge him…sorry

Nuke: yup, you’re right.

<3

Nisani: lurks a lot, but if he posts, posts towny => Town to me.

Lanaia: town, with little activity. Speak up girl . Und: Benehmt euch!

Jaj21: that particular post was a little unfortunate, but I got a town vibe from him. He seems to be constructive.

Zeks: hardcore lurker. Coinflip I guess….


that's it...Really want to read the rest.






Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 17:39 GMT
#3796
btw: are you guys sure about the double lynch? What are we gonna do with it? hit some lurkers?

I feel like there is some serious sheeping going on.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 17:55 GMT
#3800
On January 24 2012 02:46 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 02:37 Jayjay54 wrote:
About the german log (reading it from the top and typing some comments on my way):

VE: yea, he’s hard to read. He’s overaggressive and I’ve no idea why. He pushes his own agenda really hard, I’m not sure if he wants to overcompensate, if you know what I mean. Might be scum.

Kita: uncontest shot n1. Clear Town.

Jayjay: yup that guy is clear town. He also posts awesome.

P4n: kind of had a townread on him, then he went on a little rampage yesterday or so. Still have a town read, but I’m not that sure anymore.

WBG: Null read. He’s very vocal. I feel I don’t know him enough to judge him…sorry

Nuke: yup, you’re right.

<3

Nisani: lurks a lot, but if he posts, posts towny => Town to me.

Lanaia: town, with little activity. Speak up girl . Und: Benehmt euch!

Jaj21: that particular post was a little unfortunate, but I got a town vibe from him. He seems to be constructive.

Zeks: hardcore lurker. Coinflip I guess….


that's it...Really want to read the rest.





Hab den part über sie in englisch zensiert. Everything's fine! :p
And yeah jaj21 is pretty much the only one ss and I have different opinion on. He said he wants him yellow, I said fine and later on I thought fuck it and made him light green again. I'd really say he's a townie. But Supersoft thinks otherwise.

And as mentioned the rest will be delivered at the deadline before mafia kills people. We already gave out to much information and the only reason I translated it is because it's not exactly hard to ctrl+f a name and search for either "Mafia" or "town" after that particular name. So mafia probably knows what we're thinking and posting that log early on was shitty.


yea, you shouldn't have posted that as early. Google translator also works.

it's not as bad though. most of the people you discussed are not as controversial.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 18:25 GMT
#3808
On January 24 2012 03:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I also unvoted for Double-Lynch: I feel like we're all pulling in different directions and scum are going to take advantage of that tomorrow to kill 2 townies. No effin thanks.


I don't agree with the hero thing, VE. But you're damn right about the DL! people need to unvote it!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 18:28 GMT
#3809
On January 24 2012 03:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 03:22 supersoft wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
Beeteedubz...in this setup, it feels like our information roles have been replaced by Masons. This is another reason I'm so certain about Hiro - because there's likely to be only ONE DT if any.


this is the paranoia talking.


Hiro is quite obviously fake-claiming DT. OBVIOUSLY bro. There's no town-oriented motivation to do that - especially since his vote is on BM today.


I probably shouldn't start this discussion, but it's pretty slow right now, so why the hell not.

how is he obviously fake claiming?

because he didn't provide the second name? scum could have provided it, too. because he didn't say sandro's role? scum could have said it, too. Do you have other indicators?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 18:34 GMT
#3814
On January 24 2012 03:30 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 03:25 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I also unvoted for Double-Lynch: I feel like we're all pulling in different directions and scum are going to take advantage of that tomorrow to kill 2 townies. No effin thanks.


I don't agree with the hero thing, VE. But you're damn right about the DL! people need to unvote it!

Negative on that. No matter what the fuck murray will flip. we need to kill people. I haven't read a filter for a while and I will likely not do so untill murray hangs because I'm lazy. But I can promise you I can find atleast two good candidates as far in on a game as day 5. That should be easy. There is no point in saving the double-lynch. We need information and the faster we get it the better.


hmm. I feel like the DL will be easily influencable by scum and it will be hard to see, because so many players have so many different reads.

So imo the DL will end up split at best and a green lynch isn't all that much information, if scum spreads votes well which will be fairly easy considering we have like 7 candidates.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 18:57 GMT
#3820
On January 24 2012 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hiro is starting to be pretty beast at town guys - check him out if you're bored JayJay...his play is really starting to stand out.

His play since the reveal of his "role" has not been indicative of "good play". It's been indicative of hiding something: of playing for the other team. Like, take for example his reluctance to answer the question I was asking over and over until he finally answered me. He kept ignoring my request for his reasoning until he HAD to, and he pointed me to a post that says "I forgot"....while simultaneously pointing a finger of suspicion at me for "not reading the thread". Like, really? Honestly?

Add to that his obviously anti-town play - such as holding back his other report. He claims he wants to "breadcrumb" his other report. Why?! Why would he do that as town? He's an outted DT...by all rights he should be dead now, having not released his other reports. He should have outted his other reports IMMEDIATELY, giving the faction he's supposed to win with as much information as possible before he dies.

I understand resistance to lynching a claimed DT...but look at the other factors in play here - a ton of masons, little to no roleblocks...it doesn't all add up guys. Hiro is fucking scum.

Vote Hiro Protagonist for D4 lynch.


yea I checked him out.

but I feel like you jump to conclusions. if he was indeed scump why wouldn't he provide a name (maybe kita or so)? his play doesn't really make sense from a scum point of view either. If he claimed DT as scum, he'd use that to get a lot of towncred, which he currently doesn't really seems to care about.

so maybe there's another solution, maybe he masons, maybe he got a role back.

Right now, I have no reason to believe he is playing a bad scum dt play. it is more likely he plays a blue dt with something we don't know yet...

Finally, I oppose setup based lynches. "But...but...we were supposed to only have one dt". that's bullshit.

Please think about, if his play makes sense from a scum point of view...I feel like it doesn't. The "something which doesnt add up" is more likely a valueable information he doesn't want to give to the mafia yet...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 18:58 GMT
#3821
On January 24 2012 03:47 Cwave wrote:
Since Bill Murray went loco and "outed"the names he pm'd to me i will ask this to BloodyCobbler one last time.
Bill Murray "outs" Brownbear as a BG. This is also one of the same names Bill Murray gave to me and Jitsu.

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 24 2012 01:22 Bill Murray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 00:53 Nisani201 wrote:
On January 23 2012 22:54 Bill Murray wrote:
If I was mafia, I would have substituted both bodyguards, and killed BC
Is BC dead? No. Because I can't kill anyone.

Erm, what? BC is mayor. You couldn't kill him even if you wanted to.

yeah, but i could if i sent in the kills like this:
brownbear
kitaman
BC
donzo


Before, BloodyCobbler assures that Bill Murray gave false names which directs the heat away.

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 22 2012 23:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2012 23:40 jaj22 wrote:
Although BM lying about the bodyguard(s) also makes sense from a scum perspective, as an attempt to push suspicion away from Sandroba.



based on cwaves comment i can already tell you that bm did not release the correct bg names to them


But here you list him as lynchtarget.
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 22 2012 04:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2012 03:20 Toadesstern wrote:
oh also I'd like to hear some names from you BC. Just shout out who you want to lynch BC right now. preferable after the night-/day switch as well.


currently based on reading via filter.

BM, WBG, and Meapak in that order of preference.

After that insert Glurio, Evantrees, Munk-e, opz, kenpachi, brownbear.

As there are 6 mafia left, some of those are obviously at this point not correct, but they all seem intelligent choices based on the play of each one of the.


Does not compute. Is Bill Murray really a pathological liar and can i just straight out ignore him for now on and for all of eternity?
Or did you infact list one of the bodyguards on your own lynch-list?


why not, there's a good chance that scum changed at least one bg if town managed to get the mayor in...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 19:05 GMT
#3825
On January 24 2012 04:01 Bill Murray wrote:
Und: Benehmt euch! ?????? =?
are we allowed to speak in other languages? German? Really?


yay for german two word secret language.

it means "behave". geeez.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 20:06 GMT
#3841
On January 24 2012 05:02 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 04:55 Bill Murray wrote:
i don't lie as mafia
amateurs

[image loading]


hahahaha
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 20:34 GMT
#3847
On January 24 2012 05:21 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 05:17 glurio wrote:
On January 24 2012 04:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 24 2012 04:27 glurio wrote:
With all the lying BM basically nailed his coffin shut. Obvious vote.

BMs alignment will give us quite a bit of information, so double lynch tomorrow is a good idea i believe.


what are your other reads? Long as you are here might as well explain conclusions or the like that you have come to.



I'll make a post later this evening before i go to sleep, got some things to attend to right now.

Weekly scum meeting?


man they don't invite me any since the cow incident. IT WAS ONE TIME! CAN WE MOVE ON ALREADY?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 21:36 GMT
#3855
hey kita / opz. any chance you can post that log?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 21:54 GMT
#3862
On January 24 2012 06:38 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Ok so here's how I see this. Six scum left. I have Glurio and opz down as scum due to glurio's slip that there are two masons and opz's scummy play makes him the best candidate for that second scum mason.

I have hiro as scum for a lot of reasons. He screwed up the format on his check, he claimed a check on someone who was almost assured to die, he didn't die last night, he refuses to release the name of his other check, he claimed roleblocked when the only other person to claim rb was the gf, his reads are waaaaay to good especially when compared to townie hiro, and he refuses to cooperate here in the thread. All of this has convinced me that he's scum.

These are my most assured reads, however that leaves three people left.

I feel good about a BM lynch. I hear all those who are making meta arguments against him, however he's just acted far too anti-town for me to justify a meta argument. He's lied more times then I can count. He hasn't jailed high priority targets, his reads have been all over the place. At this point he's become a distraction that's hurting the town and all he has going for him are meta arguments.

Two more people, I think the last two scum will be in the: bum, bb, nisani201, munk-e, and kenpachi crowd. I'll need to take a closer look at these people and weed out the scum from there.

Also people need to vote DL, we have a lot of scum to kill and I think between opz, glurio, and hiro we have enough targets to justify a dl. Right now we really need to lower scum kp and the dl will do it.


nice. someone to chat with. I don't think I ever talked to you whole game...

glurio slipped? can you elaborate? maybe it's obvious, but I don't see it. because he's mason?

you and opz have a little feud going on. I am not sure about both of you yet. OPz crushed sheth's case. But the case against you seemed kinda weak too. really want to see the logs or hear what kita says.

I don't know agree with the whole hiro thing. He has one hero post where he mentiones 3 scum. You really think that's scummy? He only really pushes for sandro though.

I already addressed that if he was scum who wanted to look town he could have easily provided sandros role and a second name (given that he already outed like half of his team).

scum has a roleblocker, dunno why it wasn't used that much, but there is def one:

Mafia
Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in your mafia. You may kill your own members. Mafia killing power will be determined when the game begins. You also must choose the Godfather, Roleblocker, Jack, and/or Framer from among yourselves.


I feel his play doesn't make sense from a scum point of view...

munk-e lurks hardcore, but he at least presents some points against bm, if bm flips red, he's prob town
bb yeah, might be replacable scum goon bodyguard.
nisani feels towny to me in his few posts.
Kenpachi is the only one who pushed a little for bum and you. Makes him stand out a little. Not in a good way. Feels random, there were so many better target when he was around.
I'm not sure about bum...

BM lynch is good either way. His play was beyond bad and I feel town will be more focussed when he's gone.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 22:28 GMT
#3884
On January 24 2012 07:23 Cwave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 07:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 24 2012 07:10 Toadesstern wrote:
ok glurio right, forgot about him, that makes:
BC
Supersoft
opz
jitsu
glurio

I'd say out of those two BC & opz sounds reasonable or only BC. This is speculation but let me explain my train of thoughts:
What we lynched so far: Godfather + Goon + Goon + Goon
So 6 people are left and we only found 1 powerrole, their beloved godfather. Let's just assume mafia HAS at least 1 mason. Do you think they would give mason powers to people like jitsu? I mean mason? They could give him another power role, no problem because those new people get away with lurking way more than people like BC. Therefore he's more safe and they can talk about how he would use it. Let me get this clear: I am NOT sayin jitsu is mafia, it's a thought experiment (wtf, dict.cc says it's "Gedankenexperiment" in english as well? That's german :p ).
Especially mason is hard to do for new players so BC makes perfect sense. Also Godfather on L makes perfect sense if BC is mayor because they don't need to godfather BC if he gets mayor. He's immune to DT's.

Given what I just said and yes it is speculation it sounds perfectly reasonable that BC might as well be a Mason and those other 3 power roles might or might now be hidden within lurkers. However again, I doubt mafia would give people like glurio or jitsu mason. I could see opz or Supersoft as reasonable but other than that?
Of course that implies that there's no other masons around who did not claim until now but since noone said a thing I'd say there's noone left. If there is another mason or you've been masoned by someone you're a moron and need to tell us.

I really don't see how mafia gave mason powers to someone like I already mentioned. Why did L flip without mason? Why did Sandroba flip without mason? Because there's another good player in here who's got mason powers, and that player is BC.



Do you think I faked logs day 1?
Do you think if I was a mason rather than masoning a town member I would "mason a mafia"?
Do you think that I would ever expose myself in pm's when I could easily fake them for my team members with little to no heat on myself?

Opz and glurio are the clearly best choices for the mafia masons. If you truly believe I am red analyze me please. Talking about "what makes sense" when you completely ignore the continued use of my role thus far this game is hilarious.

If I was mafia, do you really think I would wait 2 days of letting protract rape my team before killing him?

You can say all those points are wifom, however you are basing an entire argument on guess work and not real analysis. It is all speculation that at no point in time can be proven. Make a real case, don't pretend to make real cases.


Hello mafia jack!!!
If you "were" a mason"?
You ARE a mason or so you claimed............!

##VOTE: BloodyC0bbler


calm down, look at the context, it's supposed to say "mafia mason"
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 22:40 GMT
#3888
I still believe that no sane man would fake a log like that.

Keep also in mind that the second log (with Opz) looked completely different (I know WIFOM).
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 23:16 GMT
#3900
On January 24 2012 08:08 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 06:36 Jayjay54 wrote:
hey kita / opz. any chance you can post that log?


Page 171.

BrownBear, any reason you haven't said anything this game? You have 15 out of 4000 posts and that's counting the spam and /ins. The things you do decide to comment on are strange, considering all the more important topics. Are you just waiting until you have to argue out of a lynch or do you actually plan to start playing 250 hours into the game?


must have missed it. thanks bro.

at least he claimed BG
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 23:51 GMT
#3908
On January 24 2012 08:35 jaj22 wrote:
Oh, I forgot about the Kita/OpZ logs:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13236558

Some evasive stuff from OpZ. Dodges questions on Bill Murray and L, doesn't volunteer any theories on nightkills. Does that "Quid pro quo, Clarice" thing but doesn't ask any questions himself. Not sure there's any reason for a townie to be that tight-lipped.



Tbh Kita was very reserved.

While reading them, I noticed the same thing as you did. When asked about BM, he goes offline. No reasoning why he didn't mason L, who he voted for.

This is especially interesting considering he answered all the other questions. hmm.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 23 2012 23:56 GMT
#3910
On January 24 2012 08:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
hiro protagonist, WBG, BrownBear, BM, Foolishness, risk.nuke

That's where I'm at guys. If BM flips town, BC goes where he's at. Foolish and risk I'm less sure on.

I'll be putting this list on every page that occurs between now and tomorrow morning. So don't bother spamming it out of sight scum, it's useless.


I'm missing glurio. Where did foolishness come from? I checked your filter you made one tiny post about him in the last 4 days or so. Is there even a case against him?

BB might be the ideal scum bodyguard, you might be right here.

Hiro stays town until proven otherwise. Setup reasonings are NOT valid.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:12 GMT
#3923
On January 24 2012 09:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
JayJay - it's not based on setup alone - it's based on the timing of his claim, the information he's provided and meta. The setup discussion is just a means to get people to look at the REST of my case, which admittedly is spread out over the course of a few posts. Maybe you can enlighten me as to why townHiro would refuse to out his reports the night after he claims loudly in-thread?

I'm not interested in lynching glurio. He seems newish town to me.


yea, I read all of your posts on that topic and I always respond the same:

why wouldn't he provide the additional information and reports if he was scum. As scum you seek towncred, which means if you gonna falseclaim, get something for you out of it. He doesn't. He could easily name a confirmed townie or so as the second report and he could have easily said sandros role as scum. To me, not posting these things is actually a towntell with a reason we don't know yet. Oh and the RB might have been a jack action.

=> his play seems even worse from a scum point of view.

also, according to some posts in this game, glurio is a VET and great bluehunter. So, I guess newish town doesn't work here.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:13 GMT
#3924
glurio is not a VET but a vet. a good experienced player, sorry I think I confused the capturing. (btw how stupid is to call experienced player the same as a common role. call them silverbacks or so)
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:21 GMT
#3929
On January 24 2012 09:15 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 09:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
I meant that if BM flips town, then BC belongs where BM is at on my list because I believe that one of them is scum.

So answer me this. If BM is town how does that make BC scummy? Cause I'm pretty sure the safer bet is if BM is scum so is BC. We have no dead bodyguards. If BM is red and BC is green we would have at least one dead one by now if the body guards are town. The only thing with anycertainty I can get out of this lynch is that whatever BM is BC and his body guards are the same.


if both are scum, why would they switch the bodyguards? There is no benefit. I'd keep them blue and kill one at some point.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:29 GMT
#3932
On January 24 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
If he is scum, he doesn't want to get the role information wrong, obviously, or it would out him as scum. He doesn't want to give the reports because then everyone will KNOW THAT HE'S SCUM! This isn't that hard.


As scum he HAS the role information and would never get them wrong. Because he is freaking scum. You said this point before and it makes ZEEERO sense. If he's a DT he has the full role information, if he's scum he has them too. And he also could provide right reports, because as scum OR DT he has a right report ready. Think a little.


"As scum you seek towncred, which means if you gonna falseclaim, get something for you out of it. He doesn't."
He doesn't need to! Look at you, all in here defending him taking NO action! He doesn't need 'town-cred' by 'outing reports' because he's got all he needs from calling out an obvious scum who was about to get lynched as scum. So you're literally saying that him possibly rendering his other reports completely useless by dying overnight WITHOUT OUTING HIS OTHER REPORTS as a "town-tell" huh? Really? Really really? How'd you come upon this conclusion Jay, I gots ta know. This is getting ridiculous.
[/i]

I am saying he doesn't really care what people think of him and to me (and may just to me) this is a towntell. Yes. He'd act differently as scum imo. And please be more aggressive.


But until then, why is the lack of one of your suspects suspicious to you? Why are you even mentioning it?


Maybe, just maybe, I wanted to add and improve your list. Without accusations. Bouncing ideas doesn't mean I call you suspicious.

It's odd and actually suspicious that you defend yourself here.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:30 GMT
#3933
On January 24 2012 09:22 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 09:21 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 24 2012 09:15 Jackal58 wrote:
On January 24 2012 09:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
I meant that if BM flips town, then BC belongs where BM is at on my list because I believe that one of them is scum.

So answer me this. If BM is town how does that make BC scummy? Cause I'm pretty sure the safer bet is if BM is scum so is BC. We have no dead bodyguards. If BM is red and BC is green we would have at least one dead one by now if the body guards are town. The only thing with anycertainty I can get out of this lynch is that whatever BM is BC and his body guards are the same.


if both are scum, why would they switch the bodyguards? There is no benefit. I'd keep them blue and kill one at some point.

Yes. Goes to my point that what BM is BC is most likely as well


yup, we agree them. was just correcting this part: "BM is BC and his body guards are the same". I'd be uncomfortable lynching BB if both flipped red.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:35 GMT
#3936
On January 24 2012 09:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 09:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 24 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
If he is scum, he doesn't want to get the role information wrong, obviously, or it would out him as scum. He doesn't want to give the reports because then everyone will KNOW THAT HE'S SCUM! This isn't that hard.


As scum he HAS the role information and would never get them wrong. Because he is freaking scum. You said this point before and it makes ZEEERO sense. If he's a DT he has the full role information, if he's scum he has them too. And he also could provide right reports, because as scum OR DT he has a right report ready. Think a little.

I am saying he doesn't really care what people think of him and to me (and may just to me) this is a towntell. Yes. He'd act differently as scum imo. And please be more aggressive.



Wait wait, you're saying that scum have Role information? That's what you're assuming? That scum have everyone's role IN ADDITION to their alignment?

Seriously? This is what you're arguing with me right now? That scum know the roles of everyone in the game, and would never be wrong by faking a DT claim? That would be broken as fuck guy! Scum don't know who are vets and who are DTs and who are masons! What the actual fuck are you talking about?


Oh, I misunderstood you.

You were arguing earlier about not telling sandro's role which he obviously knew either way.

Now you are refering to the role of the second person. I got that wrong. Sorry chief.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:41 GMT
#3938
I was assuming you continuing in the tone of those posts here:

On January 21 2012 10:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2012 10:09 Toadesstern wrote:
wat?
Detective
You have the ability to make night investigations. Once per night phase, you may PM me to ask for the role of one player.

you get the ROLE according to our op oO


Holy crap Toad.

Does the detective get role, alignment, or role and alignment in his checks?


On January 22 2012 02:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also Hiro, why did you leave off the role information from your report? That information is just as important as the alignment because it gives us more information as to the topography of powers the scumteam has. Why did you just say "red check"?


which were very stupid, because he'd new sandros exact role either way.

Applied on the green report the argument makes more sense.

I am not backpaddeling. Stop being so stupidly aggressive and paranoid.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:42 GMT
#3939
why am I making mistakes like knew <=> new. I guess 1:30 pm isn't really a good time.

I'll wait your answer and make a final night night post.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:45 GMT
#3941
On January 24 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 09:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
As scum he HAS the role information and would never get them wrong.


This is what you're saying - I said that he wouldn't want to out his reports fully because he's afraid of getting the role wrong and your response was

Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 09:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
As scum he HAS the role information and would never get them wrong.


Do you believe that's true or not?


wow. I am talking against a wall here.

let me try this again. I was assuming that you were saying, hiro is scum because he left out sandros role. which both dt and scum have.

get it?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 00:52 GMT
#3946
On January 24 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
Answer the question JayJay.

Do you believe that scum have everyone's role information in addition to their alignment or not?

I understand that there was some kind of miscommunication or whatever, but in arguing with me you're saying things that are patently false and misleading, such as "scum have role information and would never get it wrong" and "scum would out his reports for town-cred".


notice how they are two different sentences. they would

a) give out sandros role, because they have the information.
b) give out a green report with a good chance to succeed with a bluesnipe if it fails.

I know that scum has no role informatio on town. but they do on scum obv. My "give out role information" concerned sandro.

If I was mafia, I'd give the role, too, in order to get more towncred....

That's all I am saying.

/sleep. and please please be more rational and less overaggressive. That doesn't help town whatsoever...

and your defense without any accusations gave you another pair of scum points on my list...
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-24 16:33:19
January 24 2012 16:26 GMT
#4343
GG guys, very well played, town!

To wrap it up I want to address some players:

@toad: wow your reads were good. Nice! A little hint, try to avoid that sad smiley, it kind of seems weak and vulnerable and a hint of scummy. I knew you were town, but yeah…just saying

@BM: you played like a freaking madmen which is fine I guess, everyone was saying “that’s just BM being BM”. I really think you would’ve been a lot more difficult to read if you wouldn’t have lanaia jailed. That made no sense, if you wanted to look town. After your second claim, it was too late.

@BC: Sorry for being such a pain the first couple of days, I really thought you were scum. At least my read that one of you or sandroba was scum d2 was right and I defended you afterwards. You are very hard to read. I like that.

@kita: <3 <3 <3 medi buddy. We kind of synched up after I saved you! Didn’t really help, but good choice, bro!

@jackal: holy clutch play batman. Kudos for that genius shot! You got balls of steel.

@VE: seriously man, chill. The only reason why I thought you were town, is because of your uncontested shot and Opz (who was scum to me) soft attacked you a couple of times. But you attacked everyone who said something against you beyond reason. You also repeated yourself a lot and refused to see other possibilities than your own. (hiro DT, CC, me). All in all, I almost lost my mind talking to you at some points

@lurkers: stop lurking that hard.

@all: sorry about my language errors. I don’t usually derp around this much, but it was in the middle of the night most of the time and I was tired. Sorry

Finally shoutout to mafiascum wiki. Without it, I wouldn't have lasted one day.

Alright guys, it’s been heaps of fun! I already signed up BC’s new game and I intend to become a regular. Hope you don’t mind <3

See you around guys

________________________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: This last part here is about my play only. Ignore it if you don't care

This was my first mafia game ever and I never played in real life either. As I want to improve a lot, I want to state what I thought of my game and would be VERY glad if some players would give me feedback pms how to become better! Please do so, if you feel like it.

What I did good imo:

a) Confirming myself as a townie. That worked, almost no one thought I was scum.
b) Medic play, I concealed my role good and am fairly happy with my protect choices and my save.
c) Talking. I talked a lot.

What I messed up imo:

a) My reads. Most of them weren’t as good.
b) Defending against nearly every small accusation
c) Talking. I talked too much.

Again, please shoot a pm real quick with one or two sentences and I’ll try to get better!

Cheers <3

inb4: edit ban
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 24 2012 16:38 GMT
#4347
Oh, how could I? Big thanks to both hosts. Great game. Thanks for making it happen!
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
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