TL Mafia L

On January 09 2012 06:18 prplhz wrote:
i dont want to be a doomsayer or anything but this game will never start

On January 10 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:


Scum found. Obviously he didn't read the OP not knowing FW is host.

##Vote: Liquid`Sheth

On January 10 2012 10:11 Forumite wrote:

Trying to save your scumbuddy Liquid`Sheth, are you?

##Vote Jayjay54

On January 11 2012 22:04 Jitsu wrote:


I like this.

Motion to confirm "L" stands for Limbo? :D

On January 12 2012 02:30 prplhz wrote:

Leave it to a german to make obscure David Hasselhoff references

On January 12 2012 03:45 Toadesstern wrote:


that makes it 45 because in our op an out and this in is missing right? riiiiight? I want to see this start so badly!

On another note: I don't get the german hasselhoff thing. Explainz pls

Edit: But I did get that most recent rainbowdash reference from jayjay!

On January 12 2012 05:50 flamewheel wrote:
So... wait for 50, eh?

On January 12 2012 07:03 Toadesstern wrote:


what?
we get like 1 in per 2 days atm. According to my math getting to 50 takes literally ages! Yes literally

On January 13 2012 03:33 prplhz wrote:
GMarshal you should cohost the Kaller game. You are clearly a crazy man.

Welcome to mafia L, you are the Town Bomb Nut. You love explosives of all kinds, bombs, mines, remote detonators, c4, the whole lot! You want to be the only bomb maker in town and resent those who would take them away from you. You win with the town, as long as the Town Enforcer is dead, as well as the arms dealer, and as long as no bomb diffusion kits are left in the game. You have the following items/powers

1.) Suicide bomber vests, Guts and Glory quality items, you've manufactured three of these and may use them or give them out as you please, they kill the user and the target, barring protection, and may be used at any time by just typing ##Suicide Bomb: Player Name you may only give them out at night and one at the time at that, wouldn't want any spoilsports catching on

2.) Miniature Mines- every night you may sneak into someones house and plant a miniature claymore, at any point you may detonate them all by typing ##Detonate Bombs these bombs have the same killing power as bullets, meaning that anything that would stop a bullet stops a miniature mine

3.) Rigged to blow- your house is a doomsday trap with a deadsman switch, if you are killed at any point anyone visiting you that night dies, irregardless of protection or anything else, all that is left behind is a steaming crater, your remains and anyone else splattered across a five mile radius

4.) A Nose for explosives- every night you may check a player and I will tell you if they have any explosives on them, you may do this in addition to handing out suicide bomber vests.

On January 13 2012 19:01 EchelonTee wrote:
Ah shit, forgot to take out the -Town tag after Wiggles. Well cats out of the bag, I think Wiggles is town.

On January 14 2012 02:34 Mattchew wrote:


Wtf is this? Never give a break to someone you believe is scum. Push them until they prove otherwise. The threat of getting lynched is one of the strongest tools we have as town.

On January 14 2012 03:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Being a mayor or sheriff whereas would rock does not outweigh what masons in generally can fuck up later in the game. I am one of whatever the end number is. If i don't get elected fine, however, is making everyone aware of at least one of the players who is capable of being active in pms a bad thing? As opposed to just saying "wow now your scummy" Discuss how we want to operate around masons, pros, cons, etc...

Of all the roles in this setup, it is the only "confirmable role" but it is also insanely sinister as players can plant seeds of doubt, fish roles, etc...

On January 14 2012 04:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Because i believe its important to get the discussion with as early as possible? Masons act the instant day 1 begins. Whereas all other roles act at night in the exception of a jack using their mason ability (i believe).

This claim where "ill timed" only puts me at risk to a day 1 lynch to confirm my alignment. My role is confirmable. I can help assist the town via same actions I would do as a leader without the elected position, and with my claim mafia now has a hard time dealing with me.

HOW as a group, do we want to deal with all masons as a whole? I say this as simply put. Not everyone is going to be a mason. Anyone could be mason'd. With a role that is potentially in the hands of both scum and town alike we need to discuss this now. Anyone who has seen me play before recognizes my stance on role does not = alignment, and with a powerful role like mason this shit has to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post?

I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later.

Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit.

Posted from phone, will post more later.

On January 14 2012 04:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


how is my role not confirmable? Say im scum and a scumbuddy says "yes he mason'd me" if i die and flip non mason red, both of us die and two mafia die? How is that effective at all.

as for me beginning the discussion without claiming. With how I feel on the matter, it would easily come out via my posting that I would be the role, as such, why not just claim it now and get it over with. I am being as transparent as possible, and putting forth an issue everyone has an opinion on. That in itself is insanely important day 1. Generating discussion in hopes that town wins is far more important than my run at an election.

On January 14 2012 04:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
What you are suggesting is the selfish move. I am a member of the town. One member is not more important than the rest. Am I more experienced than some? yes. However, this move itself is annoying for mafia to deal with. For instance.

Say that we only allow masons to work in pm's who claim publically as an example. If a single person fails to claim and someone gets mason'd they die. In that case you either catch a dumb fucking townie or a mafia. Does town decide to just ignore all mason requests and operate with everything in thread? Are all pm chains going to be placed in thread, etc...

Eliminating a powerful weapon from the mafia is insanely beneficial tactic that benefits the town. So say my jeopardizing my own election fucks the mafias abilities in the grand scheme to corrupt or manipulate townies via pms? Is that not worth it?

Townies should do most of the major posting and plans in thread at all times, so they have no real reason to use pms whereas mafia gets huge gains. As a mason can only talk 1 a player once for 1 cycle in a game, it is more beneficial for them as they can manipulate but don't suffer the long term scrutiny they would get if they talked to someone all game.

On January 14 2012 04:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


How does me flipping red or blue give cred to whoever I picked? It gives you no information on them aside from the fact I mason'd them. I can talk to people, not confirm their alignment, or anything. If i say i masoned x and i die and flip, regardless of my alignment you gain no information on that player aside from I talked to them.

On January 14 2012 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Ok, say the town agrees that everyone just opts not to talk to masons. You don't talk to them making them an essentially useless role. How is this beneficial as red? Every mason mass claims and all those who dont who are caught acting are lynched and die as a townie has no reason to hide the fact and only a red does. Again making it hard for mafia to act as mafia are forced to claim mason or not use their role, all claimed masons have greater scruitiny as we all should. In the event all mason's are town, then sure we die, however mafia offs the more useless of town blue roles.

How as mafia does this make sense? It makes me look worse than I did before my claim, and I want people to actively discuss and potentially render my role useless? This is not mafia play at all. Which angle did I miss? The only way as red this looks good for me is "build town cred" at the cost of my entire team that I can see.

On January 14 2012 05:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
except in that case i have to trust people to claim someone masoned them. Instead you could get a townie so sure on someones guilt he claims that person mason'd him, that person dies. He flips non mason then we off said townie.
Someone claims x mason'd them and they did we off a townie mason.
someone claims x mason'd we off a mafia mason
x gets mason'd and doesn't claim period. [r]1[/r]

townies have a huge track record of screwing up in pms over the years to the point that some players excel at them. In this game, foolishness, myself, incog, zeks, opz, bumatlarge, etc... all have an advantage over players who have played for a shorter time. Ie we are more likely to perform well with the role and hide our intentions if we are red fairly well. Whereas a person we talk to could out their role, not out the mason, etc... [r]2[/r]

By making the town decide, vocally, now, we force everyone to have an opinion. This gets it out in the open now and in turn gives information on pretty well every player. Getting a huge topic that is polarizing in opinion day 1 gives early early reads on players. Using the role as a way to generate good early reads on players that is also a role that could fubar the town far more sinisterly than say a roleblocker or failed vig shot imo is more useful. If my role instead leads us to getting early reads on the scumteam and solidifying a town win what do i care if i never get to use my mason ability again? [r]3[/r]

On January 14 2012 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You will get a town read on me based on my actions. If i mason a scum, in pms he slips up and he dies and flips red because i outed his slip up I look better than I do now but am no way confirmed. If i do it multiple times maybe.

On January 14 2012 05:19 kitaman27 wrote:
BC, could you give a better explanation of why your claim benefits town? Is it simply to ensure that you are elected and have protection? You state that it is a polarizing topic that will generate discussion, but both scum and town can address the claim from both angles without giving up a whole lot of information about their alignment.

Why didn't you simply decide to run, get elected based on experience and popularity, and play the mason role as normal without public knowledge? To me, it seems unnecessary to open yourself up to a roleblock. The only benefit I can see is create a mason network for organizing blue information, but a day one claim is too early for this to be relevant and I don't see this as a beneficial plan currently with the thread of scum masons.

On January 14 2012 05:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
BC's claim is actually pretty brilliant in my eye and here's why. Before claiming, BC was easily one of the top three candidates for mayor if not the top one. There's little doubt in my mind that BC would have gotten one of the elected positions. Now he could always claim once elected, however that's not a pressure position. He's got bodyguards and immunity from dt checks so there's no danger of dying if he's town, or being found out if he's scum.

However by claiming mid day like this it instantly puts a HUGE amount of pressure on him. All eyes are on him at the moment and his every action is being scrutinized. This is an extremely tough position to be in as scum. And so it begs the question, if BC is scum, what is the motivation for claiming like this? He had a great chance at being elected so why mess that up as scum?

With this claim BC is willingly taking the spotlight and the scrutiny. While he may be scum and have the biggest balls I've ever seen, I find it far more likely that he is doing his best to demonstrate his good intentions by willingly going on the hot seat. In conclusion, I can only think of town motives for claiming.

On January 14 2012 05:31 kitaman27 wrote:

I disagree with a mass mason claim. A mason is a town favored role. Denying the mafia mason is not the priority. I'd be more than happy if a scum mason tried to contact me, considering they are now pressured into openly sharing their reads. People tend to have loose lips when regarding pms, but if you always consider their motives and agenda then there is no problem. With a mass claim, the scum team is free to pick off or roleblock blues. Suppose there are 4 mason claims and two get shot night one and flip town. Does that tell us anything about the remaining two masons? Not really.

On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.

On January 14 2012 05:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now.

On January 14 2012 06:09 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Thank you for that respect, good sir.

On January 14 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.

My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum.

On January 14 2012 07:10 kitaman27 wrote:
What you're overlooking is that a scum mason Palmar probably isn't going to be masoning Macpo, he is likely going to want to talk to bugs or sandroba. The people who are going to be targeted by masons are experienced players because those are the people it is most beneficial to bounce ideas off of.

If experienced scum A is masoned with experienced town B, town has the advantage.


If we learn that Foolishness is masoning random noob x and secretly trying to role fish and convince him to vig shoot a likely townie, well then he has to risk having the incriminating logs posted against him later on.

On January 14 2012 07:25 Kenpachi wrote:
id like a gist of what is going on right now

On January 14 2012 07:39 Palmar wrote:


Meapak is a baller. Doesn't mean he's town, but he's pretty good.

On January 14 2012 09:07 VisceraEyes wrote:


I found Foolish's campaign to be both hilarious and appropriate and will support either BM or BC today. I still think people should vote for me, but the general consensus seems to be that I'm not experienced enough, which is totally fair. I don't think I'm totally out of the running though, so I'm not going to withdraw quite yet...but expect me to withdraw if I don't get any more support by 12 hours to deadline.

On January 14 2012 09:14 kingjames01 wrote:
Also, consider for the moment, that BC may be mafia Jack.

If he uses his Mason power on Day 1 to establish his credibility and then is subsequently elected to office, we will not be able to find the mafia Jack.

It is a risk, but I know that BC will take that risk. He is very much a medium-risk, high-reward player.

EVERYONE! WHAT HAPPENS IF BLOODYC0BBLER IS MAFIA JACK?


I consider this scenario involving BC to be within his bag of tricks, and I will not vote to elect him into office.

On January 14 2012 10:28 Toadesstern wrote:
nono it's better. There's plenty of people who don't have support. VE and BM are the only ones a lot of people think is a bad choice!

On January 14 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote:

I am running for Mayor.


I believe you should vote for me because I am confirmed town. How? Let me explain.

I am a mason who used my first "masoning" on Foolishness. In the past I have proven not great at this game both as mafia and as town. I also have not been a good listener to scum team advice when it is given to me. So the odds of a scum team picking me to be their mason is slim to none.
Not really an argument. A variance of the usual “I suck at scum”. Nothing special.
Also, the fact that I pm'd arguably the best townie player in the game should prove in itself that I am town. I am not a vet or a well regarded player, why would any scum team even consider the thought of letting me either
a. (if foolishness is also scum) claim to PM one of their best players and spotlight him
or
b. (if foolishness is town) let me PM one of the best townies and maybe get myself caught.

This is logic.
This make sense. Why would mafia PM the best town player straight away? After he already started a campaign for BM. There is no real perspective for scum here. And the idea that both are scum is strange, too. The BM campaign wouldn’t make sense. There’s no chance that all 3 are scum.

Why should we vote you if you are bad?

A. I am confirmed town. This is by far the best reason to elect me.
Not really confirmed. But by logic he’s likely town.
B. I would become a roleblock immune, mason, with either 3 votes (mayor) or a jailing ability.
Masons can’t get roleblock! They have a day action. So B is not really an issue. The townish vibes make the difference here.
C. The fact that I am a mason allows me to solicit advice on my actions behind closed doors from veteran players. While I obviously will be extremely skeptical in everything they tell me, it is better than a Mayor acting purely on his own. I will not be manipulated because I will present the options and ask their opinions on them. I will not be asking broad questions, yet specific questions to leave little to no room for scum influence.
Makes sense to me. That is why the BC claim timing was so odd to me. He would have had a great chance to become mayor.

What is your stance on Mayoral Issues.

I will be active. I can read and respond while at work. Monday - Friday I should be on and reading from 13:30 GMT (+00:00) to 04:00 GMT (+00:00). Saturday and sunday I will be reading and responding while watching football but as the day progresses I will probably be getting more and more drunk, around 03:00 GMT (+00:00).

The standard obligatory "I suck at scum"

I currently am looking at 3 candidates for the day 1 lynch and will be open to discussion on all 3.
Those 3 are (in no particular order) Ciryandor, Mapco, Chaosquo is also good.
The mayor downside of his post . I agree with WBG here, these candidates suck. Would like to see Echelot or Palmar here. Mapco is a new player, you can clearly see it. So why lynch him.

I am now open for questions for the next half hour or so before company arrives at my house and I will be offline until 16:00 GMT (+00:00)

On January 14 2012 09:16 Foolishness wrote:

As I speak on the behalf of the candidacy of the one and only BILL MURRAY I can tell you right now that he will be lynching Chaosquo.

On January 14 2012 15:49 sandroba wrote:

Nah you don't interest me. Plus I wish I could. Maybe I can. Who the fuck knows.

On January 14 2012 04:17 Jayjay54 wrote:


You posted TL links. How is this coming from a spreadsheet? Do you have links in your spreadsheet?
The mafia tag was a dig, yes.

Your thoughts on BM and BC are right, though

On January 14 2012 06:18 Jayjay54 wrote:


so you're saying that the masoning has not been mod confirmed? or what rule didn't you want to violate?

On January 14 2012 13:52 Maxella wrote:
How do you guys even have the time to read all of this? I'm back on Page 32 and there are 45 pages so far? And we're still in day 1? This is bonkers ... I'm skipping a solid 15 pages of conversation and doing the only thing that makes sense.

##Vote Bill Murray for Mayor.

Why? He survived the zombie apocolypse. That's good enough for me

On January 15 2012 00:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Some people won't really get a segment here. I'm a little bit more busy than I'd like, so if you want more information, you'll have to prod me for it.

Competitors I would consider lynching
Risk.Nuke- He disappeared off the face of the earth after a few posts.
He made some bad posts and then disappears, agree. It's odd, but some people have to do stuff on the weekend. He's def a candidate though

Slardar- Makes a more or less throwaway campaign long after theres about 10 candidates. Has barely any thread presence.
Also a candidate. Really generic. To little profile


BC for his anti-town plan.
I already said a bunch about BC in my post on this page



Other people we should't elect
Mattchew seems to have his campaign revolve heavily around his role, and is keen on WIFOM. He also seems a little bit too easily influenced, and I don't want to risk scum masons taking the mayors votes. I wouldn't be surprised if he was only running because Foolishness told him to.

I can certainly see what you're saying, but imo he's the towniest candidate we have. And being a mason really could help.

Sandroba.

seems town to me, but the post I quoted in my other post made me a little suspicious.

Neutral
Bumatlarge directed blues, and wants to kill me, so I'll pass.
his campaign sucked. Wouldn't vote him.

Wiggles.
neutral to me as well.

Would like to vote for
VisceraEyes currently has my vote. This is more because I want him to stick in the running and see what his next move is more than anything.
VE is probably more influencable (is that a word?) than mattchew. Doesn't really have a clear plan from my point of view.

Kitaman.
Not sure what I think of him.

Protactinium has no campaign promises or anything to hold him to, akin to wiggles, except he made the original case on BC, so he ranks a little higher.
He solely bases his campaign on one lynch. Though the hydra is a great player, that's too little to vote for him imo. Didn't state what his gameplan is

Would probably vote for
Bill Murray. He's very active, and seems willing to listen to people while thinking for himself.
Not sure about him. He kind of slided into his campaign by foolishness. Did a couple of good statement and seems townish.

Meapak is a strong contender.
good campaign imo, he had my first vote. still is a candidate for me, but right now I stick with mattchew

Myself, if it was an option.
Not sure about you either <3

On January 15 2012 00:41 L wrote:
2) I'm voting for me. L for Mayor.

And why is that? if this is a campaign, game plan and lynch candidates or it didn't happen

3) The best defensive votes statistically are on players who currently aren't winning but posted pre-canned candidacies. The best offensive votes are on players who have crumbed a role that isn't mason.

I'm not sure, I follow here. So you say, because too few people are complaining, the people who are winning may be scum.

I'd like to point out that nobody is really winning at this point. And as you rightfully said, people need to vote ASAP. In the current state it will be so easy for scum to hijack a bandwagon and take it to the scummayor station. What I mean is, that right now, no mafia kingmaker is required, because we are voting shitty and by that I mean that we aren't actually voting.

So again, people need to vote or it will be a chaos before deadline in which the scum candidate has a good chance of winning.

That being said, why should we vote for a not winner pre-canned candidate. I don't see much reasoning behind it. And why not use the mason? If we think one's town, he'll be a candidate.



P.S. Rainbow text is fucking hard.

I thought so as I read it.

On January 15 2012 01:04 L wrote:

Crud.

Really bogus.

Using the above logic to inform my lynch, I'd probably shoot one of the four people I mentioned as frontrunners, but that's assuming nothing else comes up in the period from now until then.

Most of the arguments posted in the thread thusfar with respect to lynch choice are rather weak.

But s'ok. I got you covered, bros.

On January 15 2012 01:50 L wrote:

I kinda liked your posting until this part. Way too defensive. I stated the majority of the argumentation in the THREAD was weak and you took it as a personal attack.

Odd.

On January 15 2012 01:55 Bill Murray wrote:

THIS for the love of God, THIS

I need to catch up, but that's why I stopped voting BC, and am not voting for a mason for mayor
it is statistically worse

On January 15 2012 02:17 risk.nuke wrote:

I just realised this. Look at my posthistory and tell me if you would describe it as "I made some bad posts".
SCUM for softdefending me without seeing my filter.

On January 15 2012 02:32 Mattchew wrote:
yay for risk.nuke and jayjay tunneling one another because they disagree

On January 15 2012 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken and fail at reading comprehension, BC has promised to out his mason partner "shortly" and has failed to do so in almost 24 hours...which is a long-ass time in a 48 hour day, not "shortly".

Anyone voting for BC needs to stop doing that. His alignment needs to be confirmed. Making him mayor is the worst choice town can make right now.

Also, someone has masoned me and I need to know what everyone thinks we should do about it. It feels like a mafia mason, but I'm inexperienced and don't want to make that call myself.

I'm still reading, just putting this stuff out there.

On January 15 2012 03:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


You as a former candidate go out of your way to encourage people to withdraw votes based on a lie. You can say you misread my post which potentially believable due to its length I find unlikely. If people were actively waiting for a piece of information then my large posts theoretically should be read carefully for said information. You are not like jay who has been on my nuts all game.

Had you chosen to encourage people to not vote for me as I claimed mason and had solid reasons behind it then I would see you as more townlike, as it would also be discrediting another player with the same claim. By opting to instead cherry pick one candidate over the other I see an inconsistancy. I say this as you made mention before in thread that you had reservations of electing me before as my alignment with my role was not provable (minus a lynching obviously), however this issue would be near identical to another mason and had you kept with that line of thinking as two masons were in the running I would have understood.

Singling me out however, via incorrect information, is why you are on my list.

On January 15 2012 03:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

Your a new player right? Or relatively so? How would you know if Foolishness was the best town player in the game?



...

On January 15 2012 03:35 risk.nuke wrote:

What omgus are you speaking of? Try to get into my head as I am getting into his head. He is doing a typical scum-move, softdefend the townie, In itself it's not a scummy move. Scum loves to do this but townies do this to and that is not what I am reacting on. Here is the thing. Jay refered to my posts as bad. Which to anyone who looks at them could see they are clearly not bad. They are few but there isn't a single irrelevant/bad post in there. So why would anyone call them bad? Well they wouldn't. So why would Jay defend me without reading my filter. Well because he is scum and therefor know I am town and unluckily assumed that the reason I was looked at was a bad post. He was beeing uncarefull and made a scumslip. And Jay haven't accused me so how can It be omgus. Look at the mass contradictions in his followup post. "I wasn't accusing you, but this is omgus" and "I don't think you're scum but you're scummy" <--- WHAT?
He is also bringing up rgSchwors which makes no sense unless perhaps feels it's more pro-town to ignore attacks on you.
I was just arguing/discussion with rhSchwors when he attacked my candidacy which is the natural thing to do. He's just trying hard to make me look bad.


mattchew, he might be tunneling the me, but I am clearly not tunneling him with one post. Why on earth did you make a post like that for because it's purpose seemed to be to minimize, lessen and prevent discussion of this. Which seems incredibly biased.

---

If I'm elected I'll lynch Jay, I support BC for the election stronger then before because of jay's efforts against him.

On January 15 2012 03:46 risk.nuke wrote:

The formating of that post is fine, another attempts to make me look bad on irrelevant matters and it is a scummove because townies need to be unbiased and openminded, that is why tunneling is bad to begin with. Jay you are scum, you know it, I know it. But for you to help me convince my fellow town of this please let's discuss what matters. You may begin with pointing out which of my posts were bad.

On January 15 2012 02:17 risk.nuke wrote:

I just realised this. Look at my posthistory and tell me if you would describe it as "I made some bad posts".
SCUM for softdefending me without seeing my filter.

On January 14 2012 21:45 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hi friends! Up and awake. Spending my time at a Starbucks in order to stay on track. Sorry if I cover older posts in my analysis, I was asleep.
Topics to discuss:
A) Mattchew
Let’s analyze his post.

That being said, before he was roleclaiming, he already posted some really townish posts to back him up like this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#605
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=31#612
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=35#682
He is clearly applying logic to help town. Passionately fighting for the right townplay. Thinking ahead and providing opinions and information. I like this. A lot.
In the bigger picture, his playstyle alongside masoning foolishness doesn’t make sense as a scum play. The PM log seems consistent to other stuff they’ve been saying. E.g. foolishness attitude towards masons. It’s either well faked or real.
Foolishness would never suggest his mafia buddy BM if he were scum only to proceed and claim another scum buddy. That’s way too risky.
Therefore, I am convinced. And my townread clearly outweigh the disagreement in the lynch choices. So here it is:
##vote Mattchew

On January 15 2012 04:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
Jayjay you're pushing yourself on the premise of "I've got good reads because I...correctly called out a townie"

...

...


You know that scum know when someone's townie, right? Why don't you correctly call out someone as scum and THEN talk about how good your reads are. Seriously...

On January 15 2012 04:19 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

Mattchew seemed to be easy to control for the brief time he was here. I could theoretically have seen voting for him as scum agenda. Not only that, you're attempting to take town cred from the flip, and use it as the sole basis to start an entirely new wagon?

On January 15 2012 04:30 Toadesstern wrote:


here's the point:
1) I don't like talking about that math bullshit. That's all talk about "what would happen if we make a true rnd vote". That's not going to happen. Never ever. Fine with me mentioning but I don't think we need it right now

2) I think you're town but I don't want you to be mayor because I don't thnk you're up to it. I don't go for mayor myself although I said mattchew is a townie and ended up being right because that call was easy as it can get.

3) I'll say it once more: I think you're townie, but you running for mayor is not going to help town right now. Not at all.

On January 15 2012 04:36 Toadesstern wrote:


so that's sandroba for lynch, VE for lynch or risk nuke for lynch and BC for mayor?
Or was sandroba another viable option for mayor for you?

On January 15 2012 04:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


where does it say jacks can day shoot?

On January 15 2012 05:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


true, but wouldn't the jack be limited to the vig restraints? which only let them shoot during the night?

On January 15 2012 05:25 Toadesstern wrote:


don't, under any circumstances talk about this or answer what L is asking you. Let them wifom about if you really are a vig and be happy with that.

On January 15 2012 06:15 VisceraEyes wrote:


No it was a real claim...I idiotically thought my Vig power was a DayVig power and tried to kill C_C with it.

On January 15 2012 06:41 VisceraEyes wrote:


I'll take your being a jerk to me to be indicative of your alignment, since you're not providing anything else for me to base it on. What do you think of my case on CC?

On January 15 2012 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote:


We were never BFF...he attempted to buddy me by telling me not to drop out of the race. Did you read my case? Do you disagree with my points? Now he's trying to discredit my case, not by refuting the points but by calling me an idiot and acting incredulous about my reinserting myself into the mayoral race.

If you disagree with the case that's fine, but don't call it OMGUS...that's very NOT the case.

On January 15 2012 07:02 Jitsu wrote:



Wasn't WBG pretty anti-Palmar in anyway and wanted him dead?
Than as Palmar starts posting, the votes for WBG blow up.

10 foot pole indeed.

On January 15 2012 07:18 Toadesstern wrote:
also because someone mentioned it (think jayjay) if VE WOULD be a dayvig, shooting CC would be an awesome move.

This election is hard because we don't have flips and there's a lot of possibilities. I think sandro is pretty scumm atm for example. However, I'd like to see some flips that are in some way related to him or see himself flip to back that up.
If I got a flip that somehow tells me I am wrong about sandroba that'd be a huge deal.

Shooting d1 is dangerous but in this situation very much a good thing for town because of information gain imo.

On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote:

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?

On January 15 2012 08:29 Protactinium wrote:
Quite a few people have voiced concerns that I have not been active enough or have not provided a "gameplan". Well as Wiggles said, everyone's "gameplan" for mayor is pretty much the same and you can make however many empty promises you want. Obviously, I have been scumhunting. That's not going to change. While it may make you nervous or uncomfortable when other people are outposting me by miles, you can guarantee that when I post, I post meaningful content. Other than Foolishness's argument against Macpo (which I agree with btw), I have been the only one who has really been focused on finding the mafia. My posts speak for themselves, and

Don't you think a mayor should be a discussionleader. You clearly lack posts. They are well thought-out, but there are only a few. Would you increase your posting frequency as town?

Some clarifications about my BC analysis:

While yes, I did state that BC's opinions here are inconsistent with his out of game comments, this is not the foundation of my argument, they are just icing on the cake.



Does the fact that I am saying "I am running on the campaign of lynching this player" really say nothing about myself, as BC so claims? No, in fact, it gives you a lot about me. It tells you that I am a no nonsense player who will get straight to the point without cluttering my posts with irrelevant details. It tells you that I am serious about finding mafia and have no interest in spreading confusion and spam in the thread. And you'll notice that I don't only say "I want to lynch X", I actually give reasons for wanting to do so. BC is trying to misrepresent me and trying to convince you that I have done nothing for the town, which is clearly false. Notice how even at this point he still hasn't commented on my case on Ciryandor.

BC lies about me ignoring his game discussion. In fact, I devote the first 3 paragraphs of my post just to address the little drama BC has created. I say that his discussion is an irrelevant and unsolvable one that will get us nowhere, while stating my opinion that PMs favor good players and aren't really that scary for town if used properly. That's really all that needs to be said. Yet instead, BC has taken the mason subject and expanded over many pages of the thread, conveniently trashing it and derailing the important discussion of who the mafia is.

Look at the bolded section. Pushing my agenda to off players? BC tries to make me look like some bloodthirsty/trigger happy mafia. Guess what: The town's agenda is to kill the mafia!. So yes, my agenda is to kill mafia. That is much different from wanting to "off players". BC is inflating the importance of his "discussion"'s contribution to the town's agenda and is trying to marginalize my attempts to scumhunt, which really should be the town's priority.

The italicized portion is irrelevant. I do not fail to consider that you are playing the game instead of being bored, since in fact, boredom is more a characteristic of your town play, not your mafia play.

So in this little paragraph, what has BC actually done? He has attempted to discredit me by ignoring all my contributions, inflated the importance of his own contributions to the thread, and attempted to paint me as a trigger happy lunatic. Misrepresentation at its finest, and something that strongly indicates a mafia. I could go on and on to detail more paragraphs, but this should be sufficient.



This is a joke. He does not state that it is not used properly, he says that IF it is not used properly, mafia can abuse it to win. If you read BC's PM stance, it is quite moderate and reasonable. Use PMs if you are comfortable in using them properly, ignore them if you don't. In this game? "Ahhhh ignore PMs like the plaguuuuuu! They are so evil!!"

I still am on BCs side concerning the mason topic. Don't you think elected mafia masons can do a lot of damage? Quick answer to prevent further discussions please.



Its not as simple as that. Say, as town I am able to PM with an inexperienced mafia. That is a positive, not a detriment. BC is taking the case where inexperienced townies get into PMs with mafia and get burned, ignoring the case where a capable PM practitioner is able to leverage PMs for an advantage. BC creates an ultimatum where I am branded as mafia if I do not accept his rather skewed and overly-general statement that does not acknowledge the complexity of the PM issue.



Bored BC is usually townie BC. But in the case that he is playing seriously as town, a simple check on two separate games with BC as town shows that his style is much different from this game.
TL Mafia XX
PYP3

In TL Mafia XX, BC proposes a plan, answers questions about it, but is rather straightforward and decisive with what he wants to do. He even roleclaims before the end of the election. But what is different this time? He clearly gives an outline of how his claim was a move to get votes, and in the next post to gauge reactions. He doesn't stir the pot by saying "hey lets get a discussion going", he just states his opinions, and scumhunts. Keeps most of his opinions to himself when they aren't necessary, but otherwise its pretty clear he isn't trying to stir things up chaos here.

In PYP3, BC doesn't do nonsense. He has almost all analytical posts (about setup/the drafting situation first, then followed by attacks on LSB), and again isn't posting "to stir up discussion".

BC's town behavior in these two games completely contrasts with this game. He heavily overemphasizes "lets get discussion going", never gives any indication that he wants to find mafia until he counter-attacks me in his defense against my accusation, and has many contradictions in his posts. Even in the above quote, BC says the differences are when he is pushing a mafia or town objective. Where is he pushing the town objective??? BC does no scumhunting, and is content to litter the thread with nonsense while attempting to marginalize my contributions.

So no. Unlike what BC wants to make you think, my case is NOT based primarily on out of game connections. Those are simply bonuses.

A quick look at BC's posts show that:

He does not display any attempt to find mafia, despite his original campaign promise that "I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like.".
He has overemphasized creating discussion on masons and manipulated the course of this discussion while derailing from the town objective to find mafia.
As shown in the first section of this post, BC deliberately misinterprets my post and attempts to discredit me by painting me as a triggerhappy who just wants to off people.

Lets be honest here. Look at my posts, and look at BC's posts. Which is more important, BC's mason discussion, or my who is mafia discussion? If one of us is really trying to derail the discussion, who is it???

BC is mafia. I am shocked that so many people are still voting for him, though I suppose its natural, since mafia candidates never are lacking in votes.

On January 15 2012 08:50 risk.nuke wrote:
Protactinium, why have you waited untill now to voice your concerns? BC have been the leading election since day 1, it is now 4 hours till deadline and most of europe is asleep.

On January 15 2012 08:55 Toadesstern wrote:
you people need to realize that we need to get 2 or 3 people high on votes. We want to make it as hard as possible for mafia to screw this poll. If we end up having a lot of people who have 4 votes mafia can EASILY rig this election. So please, if you don't think the guy you're voting for has a fair chance at winning this election please try and conside voting someone else.
Sure that's a bad thing because from your point of view guy X is way better than guy Y, so why risk getting guy X into office when Y is way better.
However, if your vote turns out to be useless that's a vote that's helping scum because they need less people to rig this.

On January 15 2012 09:13 Macpo wrote:
I haven't been able to post my scum tells last post, here they are.
Basically, I think we kind of neglect all these players, who are basically hiding. I am not saying this 100% scums; some of them are probably really not here. but I also think it's more than 20% scum in there, we should keep this in mind:

- Refallen 2 empty posts.
- Munk-E 1 empty post.
- Brownbear 4 posts, 4lines.
- d3_crescentia 3 posts 3 lines.
- igabod 4 posts 4 lines.
- rtgICEMAN 4 posts, and no clear position.
- Maxella 2 posts.

Please guys, really get into it and help town; as now you are just very embarrassingly hiding. Until you convincingly do, you are all my favorite scums tells.
Also, while going through the filters, I saw the remarkable case of Jayjay, one poster, 10%of the whole thread. and to be honest, only crap in it; far from any rational standard . This annoys me, so I put him on my scummy list. We really need to have more rational stuff to clarify things. like REALLY.

On January 15 2012 06:13 L wrote:

Someone just made a claim to the strongest town role in the thread. He has multiple avenues to confirm his role if he's not lying.

No shit I'm going to ask him if he's going to shoot THE PERSON HE ALREADY TRIED TO SHOOT.

On January 15 2012 22:00 Kurumi wrote:
I fucking regret voting Protact.

On January 15 2012 22:38 Adam4167 wrote:
These:
VisceraEyes
Ciryandor
BloodyC0bbler
Protactinium
L
WBG

Ive covered most of the reasons why in my last post. L id just really like to see more of before he gets a 'townie' brand, since hes got a reputation as a great scum player.

On January 15 2012 22:55 Adam4167 wrote:
Thanks.

To be honest I combed your filter for close to 45 minutes trying to figure you out. Your excessive attention towards EchelonTee had me wondering if you were trying to exaggerate something small into something huge. Nothing jumped out at me though.

On January 16 2012 01:23 rtgICEMAN wrote:

LOL

On January 16 2012 01:52 Toadesstern wrote:
btw I'm not convinced risk.nuke is mafia at all :p

I'd gladly lynch scumdroba or bum. I think sandroba is more scummy however I am a little afraid that we might end up lynching a townie because BC might be a mafia too. If BC's a mafia I don' think sandroba is mafia.
Conclusion: I want to lynch sandroba. I'd rather not risk lynching BC so early and lynching sandroba is way better information for us while giving pretty decent chance to hit a red mine

On January 14 2012 15:49 sandroba wrote:

Nah you don't interest me. Plus I wish I could. Maybe I can. Who the fuck knows.

On January 16 2012 02:33 L wrote:

I know you might not be a huge fan of having to think, but you'll have to make due with that until day rolls around, mon ami.

Why would you you need that information during the night cycle anyways, hmm? I could play dumb and pretend there's no possible reason a townie would want that kind of information and then extrapolate into calling you scum. Who would that remind you of?

On January 16 2012 03:41 L wrote:

Man,

Enter the clueless/hurt card at this point. You've put zero analysis other than "I CANT FIGURE IT OUT" into your claim, and you've been tunneled on the issue for around 30% of your posting history. I dont' even have an argument to refute other than your claim that "you don't like the post".

Dude, sick scumhunting. Especially the part wherein you attempt to pressure me into giving information about someone who claimed jack during the game phase wherein he might die.

I think I'm done even bothering to reply to this thread-clutter until you make an argument or day rolls around.

Ciao until morning!

On January 16 2012 04:03 BrownBear wrote:


It's just Mafia, man. It's a pretty emotional game, small insults get thrown around all the time. You learn to ignore it pretty quickly.

On January 16 2012 14:10 Bill Murray wrote:
I am pretty sure I saved Lanaia from being killed last night

On January 15 2012 21:52 Bill Murray wrote:
Lynch, Lynch, Lynch!:
Lanaia
Mafia

On January 16 2012 14:16 Lanaia wrote:
Bill, if that were the case, would I have been notified of being killed?
But yeah, I can confirm he did target me.
However, I have no idea why. May I ask why?

On January 16 2012 12:30 kitaman27 wrote:
I was shot last night. Ty <3

GiygaS the Townie has been killed.

On January 14 2012 06:01 GiygaS wrote:
I'm for a mason claim. While mafia would know their identities, it provides transparency for the town as well, and if a mason is under suspicion and he's not dying from mafia, it's more evidence against possible scum.

Kurumi the Vigilante has been killed.

On January 14 2012 04:57 Kurumi wrote:
fucking mason claim why is it so easy to claim it as mafia now i need to think
also the the word for drama on scene? was good.
be right back

Mr. Wiggles the Townie has been killed.

On January 15 2012 12:11 Ciryandor wrote:


Same thing here; I only read the blue post saying 9 minutes to deadline with 4 minutes to go, so I just chucked in a vote at Bill seeing that Proact is in the lead (as of the last votecount update I saw), and that I don't like BC to get sheriff because he and Proact are at odds with each other.

As for the comment on lynching, Proact, even if he has changed targets, at least is not being wishy-washy by giving a list of choices, he is at least committing to a specific person to lynch.

On January 17 2012 02:28 sandroba wrote:
What in the fuck is that post jayjay? That whole wall post doesn't say shit and your conclusion is even more baffling to me. Nice try scum, but you need to make a bit more sense if you want to look good. Huge walls of nothing ain't gonna cut it.

On January 17 2012 02:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
The interesting timing continues...
Jayjay, What's your opinion on Chaosquo? and on GGQ?

NK's usually have a lot of WIFOM, I hardly feel like that's something to base a whole argument on. And how did you manage to include math in that?

On January 17 2012 02:37 Cyber_Cheese wrote:


When did Sandro mason BC? why are you willing to lynch someone who could very well be a townie? Why are you trying to stop conversation with 'the best choice right now' when we have a chance to find someone better?

On January 15 2012 06:05 sandroba wrote:
Palmar you need to try harder, you are too easy to spot as scum nowadays. I'd rather not lynch any vets day1 but you make it so hard not to lynch you. Please go die in a corner.
I'll vote BC since we came to a compromise in pms. Gotta roll.
##Vote: BloodyC0bbler

On January 17 2012 02:40 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Furthermore, exactly how much do you think lynching Sandroba will really tell us about BC's alignment?

On January 17 2012 02:44 sandroba wrote:

K this is utter bullshit. You lynch me, I flip town, what the fuck do you learn from BC? Why do you even care about BC at this point. Look at his day1. He looks town.

On January 17 2012 03:03 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Could Lanaia be mafia? You ever consider that? I have...Not just the long post today were neutral. Almost every post. But I'll be pointing that out later, I gotta do some things real quick.

On January 16 2012 14:11 L wrote:
Jayjay, if you've got questions, now's the time.

I'm going to take a sleep and write up my main suspects thusfar when I have a slow period at work.

On January 17 2012 04:05 Cwave wrote:


How so? I think his masonclaim plan was bad.
But i don't see how Sandro flipping scum/town has any impact on the allignment of BC at this moment?

On January 17 2012 04:11 hiro protagonist wrote:
Ok, time to start this game

Today's lynch will be scumdroba

analysis coming shortly

On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote:
ok back again:
We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.

Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba

On January 17 2012 07:02 Jayjay54 wrote:


so you still would pick sandro over GGQ and Chaos? Have you read that? Looked very much like scum...

As I stated a billion times before, I think either Sandro or BC is scum. If both were town, the logs would be faked. I mean there was enough time, but this is soooo much effort for little gain. I might be wrong here.

If one of them is town, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...

On January 17 2012 07:42 Protactinium wrote:

Apathy is not inactivity. Apathy does not mean that a player is unreadable. On the contrary, look at how this game has unfolded as a whole. Day 1 is full of chaos. The thread explodes to 75 pages, and hardly anyone is looking for mafia. You have some hardline players like WBG and company who want to throw Palmar off a cliff, and a bunch of useless mason discussion. The mafia have no reason to be actively at the front of the stage because it inherently carries risk. The town is already in a natural state of chaos anyway. Thus, the mafia are the ones who are going to be slacking off.

A sandroba lynch is absolutely ridiculous and the amount of support it is getting is shockingly disturbing.




No mafia digs up a case on a fellow mafia when it is dead and buried.

Lets look at one of your posts about sandroba:

Explain how you know Sandroba made BC lynch Palmar, when he never said such a thing.

On January 17 2012 08:37 Liquid`Sheth wrote:


I read that you know what the term means. I believe you've always known what the term means. I asked if you didn't mean to say that and you havn't responded to that in two posts. Its a small thing, but a definite thing. I agree that it is easy to use an agreed-upon term to describe things. Again here your saying that you believe he was bussing. You're really not convincing me you didn't scum slip. However for the sake of kieeping today about the small amount of lynch targets, lets get back on GGQ / Macpo.

I'll look through Schwortz filter a bit more closesly later on. I'm sure it will be very interesting from what I remember of his posting

On January 17 2012 08:45 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Despite me going after Opz a bit here, today I still want us to lynch Macpo for all of the reasons before stated.

On January 17 2012 08:53 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
I'm not afraid of it, but there is a chance he is. I feel that from how he has changed his style so much and from the way he has posted he is very likely a newbie mafia though. And just because someone "might" flip town is never a reason not to lynch him. (I realize you say you'd lynch him).

On January 17 2012 08:55 Lanaia wrote:
Jay, I had some questions for you a while ago and I'm not sure you answered them. Looked in your filter, didn't see it.

On January 17 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Writing. Stumbled across this:



what is that supposed to mean?

You would lynch him, but he might flip town?

Are you saying you would lynch him despite the fact that there's a non-negligible chance he might flip town? AKA you're willing to lynch someone who you are not confident about? Either that, or you're just stating the obvious.

Votes for Macpo (15)
Protactinium
Foolishness
Bill Murray
Scamp
Jitsu
Meapak_Ziphh
evantrees
Lanaia
bumatlarge
rgTheSchworz
Adam4167
Cyber_Cheese
Toadesstern
glurio
rtgICEMAN

Votes for sandroba (2)
hiro protagonist
Kenpachi

Votes for GGQ (1)
sandroba

Votes for Protactinium (3)
Nisani201
risk.nuke
~OpZ~

Votes for Bill Murray (1)
wherebugsgo

Votes for Kenpachi (1)
BrownBear

Votes for Jackal58 (2)
bumatlarge
BloodyC0bbler

Votes for L (2)
kitaman27
kingjames01

On January 17 2012 20:46 Bill Murray wrote:
I could easily have prevented Lanaia from using a scum ability
when I saw 3 KP, and L claimed Roleblocked, I thought it might have been the combination of the two

On January 18 2012 01:31 Jitsu wrote:
C_C, you said in you're post:



I might have read it wrong. Can you elaborate?

On January 18 2012 01:36 risk.nuke wrote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=108#2141
And please, call me nuke.
risk is more similar to a clantag so it would be more correct and make it easier for me since people use the word "risk" quite alot in mafia.

On January 18 2012 01:44 risk.nuke wrote:

No harm done
What do you think of Bill Murray?

On January 18 2012 01:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

I have two problems with this.
1) Mafia could be bussing.
2) You pointing it out is a defence

However, what you say could carry weight, and at any rate he hasn't posted since page 80 so he might be eligible for a modkill today, and that really would be a waste of a lynch.
If people are up for Chaosquo lynch, I will swap back. I'd rather give GGQ longer and hope he comes back, or vig him.

On January 18 2012 02:01 jaj22 wrote:

What would you expect a scum sheriff to do? No point keeping the jailings for an open roleclaim because you'd just get lynched for it, so the obvious choice is to go blue-hunting.

The nightkills certainly look like blue hunting to me, so it fits.

On January 18 2012 02:03 risk.nuke wrote:

Wrong. while you could argue whether his motive makes sense for scum or town, they were in the end were scum favored.

If he were scum: Using the power on a townie hoping to block a possible heal/check but also wasting one use which means we can not use it in a later situation. Possibly in a town controlled way. Say when we get confirmed townies we want to protect.

If he were Town: Why would he use it on lanaia after arguing she is scum. Blocking potential dt checks or vig hits for the slim chance of actually preventing a mafia move. Consider it's probably just roleblocker and framer who would suffer from it. Godfather Goon and Mason nothing happens. And the jack is limited use anyway.

On January 18 2012 02:20 jaj22 wrote:

Given the low vote count on the three main candidates (32 votes, 10 scum), it looks implausible that a mafia didn't get elected unless they really weren't trying. It's quite possible that mafia even spread their votes between (scum) BM and (town) BC on the basis that BC was going to lynch Protactinium or Palmar.

On January 18 2012 02:26 Toadesstern wrote:


I'm going to say if sandroba really flips green (which I don't believe will happen) we fucked up big time because we've got 2 mafias in office.
If sandroba is red I'm willing to believe BM is green and BC is red.
If sandroba is green I'm willing to believe BM is red. But that's not telling us shit about BC at all. Could be mafia or green,

On January 18 2012 02:36 Toadesstern wrote:


kind of. I don' think they're faked but the timestamp might be. Remember I asked him early on to show his logs and he refused to do so and only posted them once the night started.
But yeah you're right that's pretty unlikely