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On January 14 2012 05:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:51 Jayjay54 wrote:On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. I second that. Come on out masons! Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now.
well if town chooses to ignore the masons, than these guys are actually not blue. So they know the identity of two people without any power. yay. why would a medic protect a powerless masons?
And we also would take away a very powerful role from the mafia.
I think it's a great move, as I think good players can handle pming with mafia, worse players are actually manipulated. Plus, mafia gets to proof read, while town don't.
So again, here's the logic.
Scum Mason > Town Mason => eliminate all masons => 0>0!
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On January 14 2012 06:09 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_- ...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia. fair point. Thank you for that respect, good sir.
so you're saying that the masoning has not been mod confirmed? or what rule didn't you want to violate?
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hmm BC told a story where he destroyed town as a mason. And was so afraid of masons that he immediately claimed. Either he's serious about that or he's scum. Both can be true.
So I guess yes, I disagree with some of you. And here's why:
I think that it is very very difficult to confirm scum in PM with whole mafia proof read backup. I also think that it is well possible for a well experienced player to manipulate somebody or find roles through PMs.
I hope, one can see my point. I can certainly see yours, but I just have a different opinion and therefore support sandros mass claim idea.
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The idea to randomly lynch 0,1,2 BG is basically, yes, random. I don't see why the mafia wouldn't make use of the subsitution ability. I don't know if they replace both or just one. 2 seems risky, but you never know.
I can't see any benefit of randomly lynching one BG when you have a 50/50 (in the 1 replace scenario) chance to kill your protector.
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On January 14 2012 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.
My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum.
Man, don't worry about it, you're fine <3 I am just glad that I joined and having some fun here 
I guess we agree that a powerful town mason can most certainly find scum. I guess we also agree that a powerful scum mason can cause a lot of destruction.
Town already has a percentage where he ends up PMing town. And the whole mafia thread backs up every PM to prevent scumslips.
Mafia ends up PMing 100% a townie and they will not choose the good players, because they know that they would be at risk. They talk to weaker players and there's a good chance that things are screwed up or a role is found.
So again, I think scum mason > town mason and I stand by that, even if I was never involved in such a game. It's just the way my logic sees it.
You say, BC can be deadly as town and you're right. Yet he chooses to give away this advantage, because he thinks scum PMs are too strong and even makes it a priority topic. Also, mafia would never mason him, because he's a strong player.
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On January 14 2012 07:10 kitaman27 wrote:
What you're overlooking is that a scum mason Palmar probably isn't going to be masoning Macpo, he is likely going to want to talk to bugs or sandroba. The people who are going to be targeted by masons are experienced players because those are the people it is most beneficial to bounce ideas off of.
If experienced scum A is masoned with experienced town B, town has the advantage.
If we learn that Foolishness is masoning random noob x and secretly trying to role fish and convince him to vig shoot a likely townie, well then he has to risk having the incriminating logs posted against him later on.
the first two blocks totally contradict themselves. you say if an experienced scum masons experienced town, town has an advantage. Alright, I agree. Then why the hell would mafia mason an experienced player and get into a disadvantageous position?
and of course foolishness would wind up being revealed and not make sure that "scum doesn't have to know I am mason, please don't tell thread" in a convincing way. Come on. It is much more subtle than that. And I am quite sure that they would target the weaker players.
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On January 14 2012 07:39 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:17 Mattchew wrote:On January 14 2012 07:14 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This is an interesting conversation, you haven't convinced me but some good points have been brought up. What happens if a mason chooses not to claim when you all order them to? Do you lynch him the second he comes out on the policy of LaL? I just feel like this whole plan is very shortsighted.
And on that note I'd like to get back to the mayor/sheriff discussion. The last thing we want is to get completely sidetracked day 1. Bc's claim created good discussion and created a lot of material however we need to refocus and get done what needs to be done.
I still support BC to be my sheriff, however given that a lot of people are nervous of him because of his claim I'd like to remind people that Kita is my second choice. If you can't bring yourself to vote BC then vote kita. He's made some good points and he's probably best option behind bc.
I'd really like to hear from L right now. He's the only really good vet who hasn't checked in yet and I'd love to hear what he has to say about mayor. who is you? (curiosity not accusatory) Meapak is a baller. Doesn't mean he's town, but he's pretty good.
you should really try to post with more than one line.
I personally like Meapak's campaign and how he approaches the thread. Maybe he's outsmarting me, but I get town vibes.
After BC is not longer a mayor option for me, I'm thinking of voting Meapak...
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Hmm. As this thread slowed down a bit, could all the candidates please say what their lynch plan for day one is and why? would be quite nice for the town!
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On January 14 2012 09:07 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:51 Foolishness wrote:On January 14 2012 00:50 Kurumi wrote:
Why would someone create a campaign for someone else without seeing him post ever? If anyone is voting for someone partly with the reason of "he's a good player" then they are doing the same thing. Don't know why you choose to call me out instead of any of the other lackluster votes. At least I have a plan and reasoning. I found Foolish's campaign to be both hilarious and appropriate and will support either BM or BC today. I still think people should vote for me, but the general consensus seems to be that I'm not experienced enough, which is totally fair. I don't think I'm totally out of the running though, so I'm not going to withdraw quite yet...but expect me to withdraw if I don't get any more support by 12 hours to deadline.
alright my vote is on sale. Do you still intend to lynch palmar?
how do you feel about the second mason claim?
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sorry bro you got me ninja's
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I voted Meapak, he was the only campaign besides BCs which had a plan.
If the field clears up, I might change my vote again in order to not vote in vain.
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On January 14 2012 09:14 kingjames01 wrote:
Also, consider for the moment, that BC may be mafia Jack.
If he uses his Mason power on Day 1 to establish his credibility and then is subsequently elected to office, we will not be able to find the mafia Jack.
It is a risk, but I know that BC will take that risk. He is very much a medium-risk, high-reward player.
EVERYONE! WHAT HAPPENS IF BLOODYC0BBLER IS MAFIA JACK?
I consider this scenario involving BC to be within his bag of tricks, and I will not vote to elect him into office.
he doesn't have to be a jack. A red BC would be bad enough. Any red mayor would instantly result in 0 mafia bodyguards, a well protected mischief triple voter. And a good player. Most likely GG.
If BC is town and we can be sure of that, BC is the way to go. But that role claim timing was so strange.
Looking at his current 6 votes, he is en route to become mayor. This scares me a little.
Maybe BC should start of saying who he masoned? He said he doesn't want to say rightaway because he doesn't want to spoil a focussed discussion. Now is the time BC. Who'd you mason?
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@wiggles, yup, those ideas are not compatible
@WBG I asked for that too. He shouldve done it way earlier. but it seems to work either way hes got a lot of votes.
@toad, so you say because he hasnt got any support he's town? because no one has support yet except of BC-...
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On January 14 2012 10:28 Toadesstern wrote:
nono it's better. There's plenty of people who don't have support. VE and BM are the only ones a lot of people think is a bad choice!
his campaign doesn't really radiate confidence. wouldn't take it as a towntell...
other than that: /sleep <3
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uhm I mean, he DOES radiate confidence and is definitely town. I'll be Minister! Yay!
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Hi friends! Up and awake. Spending my time at a Starbucks in order to stay on track. Sorry if I cover older posts in my analysis, I was asleep.
Topics to discuss:
A) Mattchew
Let’s analyze his post.
On January 14 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote:
I am running for Mayor.
I believe you should vote for me because I am confirmed town. How? Let me explain. I am a mason who used my first "masoning" on Foolishness. In the past I have proven not great at this game both as mafia and as town. I also have not been a good listener to scum team advice when it is given to me. So the odds of a scum team picking me to be their mason is slim to none. Not really an argument. A variance of the usual “I suck at scum”. Nothing special.Also, the fact that I pm'd arguably the best townie player in the game should prove in itself that I am town. I am not a vet or a well regarded player, why would any scum team even consider the thought of letting me either a. (if foolishness is also scum) claim to PM one of their best players and spotlight him or b. (if foolishness is town) let me PM one of the best townies and maybe get myself caught. This is logic. This make sense. Why would mafia PM the best town player straight away? After he already started a campaign for BM. There is no real perspective for scum here. And the idea that both are scum is strange, too. The BM campaign wouldn’t make sense. There’s no chance that all 3 are scum.Why should we vote you if you are bad?A. I am confirmed town. This is by far the best reason to elect me. Not really confirmed. But by logic he’s likely town.B. I would become a roleblock immune, mason, with either 3 votes (mayor) or a jailing ability. Masons can’t get roleblock! They have a day action. So B is not really an issue. The townish vibes make the difference here. C. The fact that I am a mason allows me to solicit advice on my actions behind closed doors from veteran players. While I obviously will be extremely skeptical in everything they tell me, it is better than a Mayor acting purely on his own. I will not be manipulated because I will present the options and ask their opinions on them. I will not be asking broad questions, yet specific questions to leave little to no room for scum influence. Makes sense to me. That is why the BC claim timing was so odd to me. He would have had a great chance to become mayor. What is your stance on Mayoral Issues.I will be active. I can read and respond while at work. Monday - Friday I should be on and reading from 13:30 GMT (+00:00) to 04:00 GMT (+00:00). Saturday and sunday I will be reading and responding while watching football but as the day progresses I will probably be getting more and more drunk, around 03:00 GMT (+00:00). The standard obligatory "I suck at scum" I currently am looking at 3 candidates for the day 1 lynch and will be open to discussion on all 3. Those 3 are (in no particular order) Ciryandor, Mapco, Chaosquo is also good. The mayor downside of his post  . I agree with WBG here, these candidates suck. Would like to see Echelot or Palmar here. Mapco is a new player, you can clearly see it. So why lynch him.I am now open for questions for the next half hour or so before company arrives at my house and I will be offline until 16:00 GMT (+00:00) [/b]
That being said, before he was roleclaiming, he already posted some really townish posts to back him up like this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716¤tpage=31#605
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716¤tpage=31#612
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716¤tpage=35#682
He is clearly applying logic to help town. Passionately fighting for the right townplay. Thinking ahead and providing opinions and information. I like this. A lot.
In the bigger picture, his playstyle alongside masoning foolishness doesn’t make sense as a scum play. The PM log seems consistent to other stuff they’ve been saying. E.g. foolishness attitude towards masons. It’s either well faked or real.
Foolishness would never suggest his mafia buddy BM if he were scum only to proceed and claim another scum buddy. That’s way too risky.
Therefore, I am convinced. And my townread clearly outweigh the disagreement in the lynch choices. So here it is:
##vote Mattchew
2) @ foolishness, just a quick question. Where is this coming from, did he mason you or is it just assuming because of his posts?
On January 14 2012 09:16 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 09:05 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hmm. As this thread slowed down a bit, could all the candidates please say what their lynch plan for day one is and why? would be quite nice for the town! As I speak on the behalf of the candidacy of the one and only BILL MURRAY I can tell you right now that he will be lynching Chaosquo.
3) Our lovely hydra Protactinium
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716¤tpage=44#870
I’m not going to make a detailed case on his post. I just think it’s really good and focused. Have the same feeling about BC. Everyone read this post and consider unvoting him. There’s something off here. Like I stated in a bazillion post after his roleclaim. He started a discussion, he could’ve easily started differently. Also, there was no need to this at day 1, but night 1. I don’t feel comfortable with him as a mayor.
The roleclaim made zeeero sense. Read his filter, he doesn’t provide any reasonable explantion. He argues about how to deal with masons, but not why he claimed.
So why not vote him then? I like his lynch candidate and analysis and I think he’s town, but IMO a mason as mayor could be helping a lot. That’s why my vote is on mattchew even though I am completely onboard the we should lynch BC train!
4) sandro
On January 14 2012 15:49 sandroba wrote:Nah you don't interest me. Plus I wish I could. Maybe I can. Who the fuck knows.
This post was just odd to me. He was the one who initiated the mass claim, why post something like this now. Seems inconsistent.
5) Echelon
On January 14 2012 04:17 Jayjay54 wrote: Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote:
@jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post?
I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later.
Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit.
Posted from phone, will post more later. You posted TL links. How is this coming from a spreadsheet? Do you have links in your spreadsheet? The mafia tag was a dig, yes. Your thoughts on BM and BC are right, though
I am still waiting for an explanation here. Seriously. Step up.
6) Opz
On January 14 2012 06:18 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:09 ~OpZ~ wrote:On January 14 2012 06:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.
So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*
to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_- ...To be fair, do you think I would willingly violate the rules? I'm more about enjoying my experience of playing than winning. I'm above cheating at mafia. fair point. Thank you for that respect, good sir. so you're saying that the masoning has not been mod confirmed? or what rule didn't you want to violate?
still waiting for an answer here as well. Not to accuse you. But I just don’t get what happened. You masoned him, you didn’t get confirmation and thus you never wrote him? Wth?
Finally this post here)
On January 14 2012 13:52 Maxella wrote:How do you guys even have the time to read all of this? I'm back on Page 32 and there are 45 pages so far? And we're still in day 1? This is bonkers ... I'm skipping a solid 15 pages of conversation and doing the only thing that makes sense. ##Vote Bill Murray for Mayor. Why? He survived the zombie apocolypse. That's good enough for me
post is either dumb, bonkerz or stupid. I am not sure yet…
So that’s it for now.
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alright CC let's do this.
On January 15 2012 00:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Some people won't really get a segment here. I'm a little bit more busy than I'd like, so if you want more information, you'll have to prod me for it.
Competitors I would consider lynching
Risk.Nuke- He disappeared off the face of the earth after a few posts.
He made some bad posts and then disappears, agree. It's odd, but some people have to do stuff on the weekend. He's def a candidate though
Slardar- Makes a more or less throwaway campaign long after theres about 10 candidates. Has barely any thread presence.
Also a candidate. Really generic. To little profile
BC for his anti-town plan.
I already said a bunch about BC in my post on this page
Other people we should't elect
Mattchew seems to have his campaign revolve heavily around his role, and is keen on WIFOM. He also seems a little bit too easily influenced, and I don't want to risk scum masons taking the mayors votes. I wouldn't be surprised if he was only running because Foolishness told him to.
I can certainly see what you're saying, but imo he's the towniest candidate we have. And being a mason really could help.
Sandroba.
seems town to me, but the post I quoted in my other post made me a little suspicious.
Neutral
Bumatlarge directed blues, and wants to kill me, so I'll pass.
his campaign sucked. Wouldn't vote him.
Wiggles.
neutral to me as well.
Would like to vote for
VisceraEyes currently has my vote. This is more because I want him to stick in the running and see what his next move is more than anything.
VE is probably more influencable (is that a word?) than mattchew. Doesn't really have a clear plan from my point of view.
Kitaman.
Not sure what I think of him.
Protactinium has no campaign promises or anything to hold him to, akin to wiggles, except he made the original case on BC, so he ranks a little higher.
He solely bases his campaign on one lynch. Though the hydra is a great player, that's too little to vote for him imo. Didn't state what his gameplan is
Would probably vote for
Bill Murray. He's very active, and seems willing to listen to people while thinking for himself.
Not sure about him. He kind of slided into his campaign by foolishness. Did a couple of good statement and seems townish.
Meapak is a strong contender.
good campaign imo, he had my first vote. still is a candidate for me, but right now I stick with mattchew
Myself, if it was an option.
Not sure about you either <3
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On January 15 2012 00:41 L wrote:
2) I'm voting for me. L for Mayor.
And why is that? if this is a campaign, game plan and lynch candidates or it didn't happen
3) The best defensive votes statistically are on players who currently aren't winning but posted pre-canned candidacies. The best offensive votes are on players who have crumbed a role that isn't mason.
I'm not sure, I follow here. So you say, because too few people are complaining, the people who are winning may be scum.
I'd like to point out that nobody is really winning at this point. And as you rightfully said, people need to vote ASAP. In the current state it will be so easy for scum to hijack a bandwagon and take it to the scummayor station. What I mean is, that right now, no mafia kingmaker is required, because we are voting shitty and by that I mean that we aren't actually voting.
So again, people need to vote or it will be a chaos before deadline in which the scum candidate has a good chance of winning.
That being said, why should we vote for a not winner pre-canned candidate. I don't see much reasoning behind it. And why not use the mason? If we think one's town, he'll be a candidate.
P.S. Rainbow text is fucking hard.
I thought so as I read it.
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Also. L you can't actually vote for yourself buddy
so pick another candidate
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On January 15 2012 01:04 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 00:57 Jayjay54 wrote:Also. L you can't actually vote for yourself buddy so pick another candidate Crud. Really bogus. Using the above logic to inform my lynch, I'd probably shoot one of the four people I mentioned as frontrunners, but that's assuming nothing else comes up in the period from now until then. Most of the arguments posted in the thread thusfar with respect to lynch choice are rather weak. But s'ok. I got you covered, bros.
Actually, the only one I really want to lynch right now is BC. read my filter. I stated a lot of solid arguements to say why. Read my filter for more information. So please don't say I have rather weak arguements when I in fact made some solid points on BC.
Echelot's "-town" thing still doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. And he seems to avoid explanations. So he would be my second in the lynch que. Except if he explains himself a little better.
"url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716¤tpage=23#442]Wiggles[/url] - town"
how is this to come from a spreadsheet? how? Does he keep links and then adds the town. And how did he have a townread on wiggles after 20 seconds?
Your strategy of just randomly lynching a top candidate because he could get some votes isn't really great either.
But as BC is the candidate with the most votes, I'd settle here. Maybe you're right and the mafia is quite because the already win the race. This would be in line with my current reads...
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EPT
