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On January 13 2012 18:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Scum will run for mayor, and more than likely they will be scummier than most of town. If we inspect the candidates closely, we can easily discern at least one.
I bolded the part I don't like. Yes, mayor does offer a lot of incentive for scum in the form of uncheckable. However I don't think it's safe to assume that it's a guarentee, and even if they do we may not be able to tell which one. In this case, it's just a better idea to lynch the scummiest player regardless of whether they were a mayoral candidate.
Discussion on whether scum will or will not run for mayor is pretty much WIFOM so I'll just leave it at that, the above is what I think and will be how I conduct the lynch if I'm elected mayor.
Ok really going to sleep now :D
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Wow lots happened while I was asleep  Alright let's talk BC's claim.
BC's claim is actually pretty brilliant in my eye and here's why. Before claiming, BC was easily one of the top three candidates for mayor if not the top one. There's little doubt in my mind that BC would have gotten one of the elected positions. Now he could always claim once elected, however that's not a pressure position. He's got bodyguards and immunity from dt checks so there's no danger of dying if he's town, or being found out if he's scum.
However by claiming mid day like this it instantly puts a HUGE amount of pressure on him. All eyes are on him at the moment and his every action is being scrutinized. This is an extremely tough position to be in as scum. And so it begs the question, if BC is scum, what is the motivation for claiming like this? He had a great chance at being elected so why mess that up as scum?
With this claim BC is willingly taking the spotlight and the scrutiny. While he may be scum and have the biggest balls I've ever seen, I find it far more likely that he is doing his best to demonstrate his good intentions by willingly going on the hot seat. In conclusion, I can only think of town motives for claiming.
currently MIA: L, now would be a good time to start posting.
Things that are bad in a townie way: Palmar, I don't think you're scum but I'd appreciate if you put more effort into the game.
Things that are bad in a scummy way: People calling Palmar scum. Palmar is making himself a really easy target with his blatantly bad posting, it doesn't take much to call someone who's posting like him out. It's people trying to score townie points by looking like they're standing up and acting town when in reality they're just going after something that costs them no skin off their back.
Note this doesn't apply to people who have simply asked Palmar to play better (like me lol) I'm instead talking about the people who were like "zomfg lynch palmar."
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Agh should have proof read that, I have another point for why BC's claim is protown. It forces discussion of the issue and it gives us something to talk about on day 1 instead of just discussing the usual things which often lead nowhere. As scum, the status quo of talking in circles day 1 is great, BC's claim interupts that though and suddenly puts people (especially scum) on the spot to talk about an issue that is not normally present day 1.
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On January 14 2012 05:51 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote:
MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. I second that. Come on out masons!
Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now.
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On January 14 2012 05:34 sandroba wrote:
Alright peeps here are the advantages of mass claim masons:
1) It forces mafia to come under a lot of scrutiny if they want to use the mason power. The plan is to watch these people closely and get a lot of the info out in the open, instead of allowing masons to operate in the shadows.
The strength of the mason role is that it opperates in the shadows. Forcing a massclaim basically says "well we don't need masons this game." If that's the route you want to go then ok but I'd prefer not to completely render masons useless
2) If mafia doesn't want the spot light they will probably not claim nor use their mason powers, which is very good for town. For this same reason we must not go on a witch hunt on the claimed masons, because they can be of any alignment and may be all town as well. We shall lynch people because of suspicious behavior, not because of trying to find mafia withing the masons.
This is true, however mason is a very strong town role and a much weaker mafia role, we're sacrificing a lot for the gain of a little
3) There is not much of a downside to it. If mafia wants to waste their roleblock/kill on mason by all means be my guest. It further protects our really important blue roles which is great. If they choose to ignore them we are back in the same place we we're before with extra info as town that mafia opted not to use. Which is great.
The downside is that masons loss their effectiveness.
Ok Sandroba, here are my responses to this post.
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also, scum masons are weaker than town masons. Town masons have the potential to catch scum, scum masons are literally worthless unless they manage to mason a player who is bad and they can manipulate. Even then the manipulated player is bad so he won't get listened to when he tries to do the scum's bidding. I have no idea where this impression that scum mason is a strong role came from -_-.
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Bc your example isn't indicative of mason activity as a whole. The game you refer to is an anomaly because like you said, everyone was a mason and had two uses. This would obviously a recipe for chaos even without mafia meddling. Ths game has normal mason rules and a lot fewer masons. While it's true that dumb townies do dumb things, as a whole mason is a stronger townie role in a normal environment. Scum masons must rely on stupid townies (which are a dime a dozen but ultimately do not have thread influence and won't really be able to help the scum goal).
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Jayjay pardon if this sounds patronizing but (correct me if I'm wrong) you've never played in a PM game or seen how powerful they can be. For a decent townie, PMs are extremely useful. As I've already said, mafia PMs are less useful. Bc did just give an example but like I said in my previous post, it's a bad example and not representative of PMs on a whole.
My point is this. A player like bc can be deadly with PMs as town, as scum it's much harder to be effective in a normal game so the damage he can do is significantly less as scum.
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On January 14 2012 06:48 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
masons rely on their ability to read people and read posts to get a good view of someone. Catching someone in pms is not as easy as everyone thinks it is and historically towns have town far more retarded things there than good. this. 100 times over. There is a greater chance scum misleads masons then there is masons catching scum in pm's.
Disagree. Maybe I put too much faith into the town's collective ability to think coherently but I maintain that it is easier to catch a scum via PM then it is for a townie to be mislead by scum.
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This is an interesting conversation, you haven't convinced me but some good points have been brought up. What happens if a mason chooses not to claim when you all order them to? Do you lynch him the second he comes out on the policy of LaL? I just feel like this whole plan is very shortsighted.
And on that note I'd like to get back to the mayor/sheriff discussion. The last thing we want is to get completely sidetracked day 1. Bc's claim created good discussion and created a lot of material however we need to refocus and get done what needs to be done.
I still support BC to be my sheriff, however given that a lot of people are nervous of him because of his claim I'd like to remind people that Kita is my second choice. If you can't bring yourself to vote BC then vote kita. He's made some good points and he's probably best option behind bc.
I'd really like to hear from L right now. He's the only really good vet who hasn't checked in yet and I'd love to hear what he has to say about mayor.
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lol sorry Mattchew, should read "you all.". Was directed at anyone who I had talked to on this and previous page about masons.
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mkay wow a lot happened. I just wanna address the Mattchew candidacy.
This is a tough call. On one hand, it is possible that mattchew is town. But the only evidence we have of this is foolishness's word, and with foolishness's actions so far I don't put too much stalk in it. For one, I find it really odd that foolishness would out a blue role just like that, he should know better than that. Another reason is that mattchew seems way too eager to claim confirmed town. At this point in the game it's impossible to know. There's a very real possibility that scum would mason foolishness to try and find out if he's on to them. Ultimately though, trying to determine mattchew's alignment comes down to WIFOM which could get endless.
I would feel better about the whole mattchew thing if he took his position and tried to play protown with it however most of his posts since announcing his candidacy have been talking about how he is confirmed which he isn't.
Anyway at this point I still feel pretty good about BC despite protact's analysis. Other people who are making sense atm are kita and to a lesser extent WBG. I disagree with WBG that Palmar is scum, I thought I knew what Palmar was trying to do with his bad posting but if he doesn't come in and capitalize on it within the next 12 hours or so I'll be more inclined to think he's scum.
I would still love to see L post, I also want more out of GGQ who has done absolutely nothing so far, in terms of lynch I still feel very good about GGQ because I think he fits the lurking scum profile. He's been in the thread but his posts have not been protown and since I'm the only person who seriously called him out he's been able to slip into obscurity.
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On January 14 2012 09:05 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hmm. As this thread slowed down a bit, could all the candidates please say what their lynch plan for day one is and why? would be quite nice for the town!
Just reading through the thread and found this. It's a good question that every candidate should answer seperately from large posts so people can easily see it.
If elected and I had to decide my lynch right now it would be GGQ. As I've said before, his posting has been extremely antitown and he's offered nothing of value. He is a good and veteran player who should know better than this. He also pretty much completely disapeared from the thread, he also (iirc) never addressed my concerns about him. These are both scum traits. As scum, when you're called out it's the best thing often to just ignore the accusation. GGQ did this. Also since I am the only person who has really called him out, whenever I go to sleep or leave my computer GGQ has time to to sink away from public eye, the BC mason storm helped this. When a scum is called out by only one or two people, the easiest strategy is ignore then lurk which is what GGQ did. This is why, at the moment, he'd be my lynch choice.
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On January 14 2012 18:55 Bill Murray wrote:
BC, were you THE ORIGINAL mason, or WERE YOU MASONED?
Actually, rereading the thread, I realize that I'm a bit unclear as to what exactly encompasses BC's claim. I'm gonna agree with Bill here, BC it's time you come clean here and tell us what's going on. I feel you're town, however you're starting to give off that "I'm hiding something" vibe which doesn't make me comfortable. So, no excuses or beating around the bush. Tell me right now who you masoned. Once you've told us we will then ask them for varification. This honestly shouldn't be that difficult.
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Well I'm going to sleep. Tomorrow I'm going to be gone from 11:00am to 6:00pm PST but I'll bring my itouch and keep up with the thread. No massive posts but I'll give my opinions and reads when I can.
Also I want to know why foolishness wants to lynch Chaosquo.
night everyone.
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On January 14 2012 19:46 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:19 GGQ wrote:
By the way, Palmar should not be given a free pass to post badly on day 1 so that he won't be killed night 1. That's just silly logic. Should kenpachi be?
Palmar, you know you're playing bad, I know you're playing bad, WBG knows you're playing bad. Right now I think you were trying to see who jumped on you for your play. Gambit's over, it's time for you to be useful.
And the fact that you compare yourself to kenpachi should really indicate that you've taken this little game as far as it's gonna run. Tell us what you learned by doing what you did.
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Gonna unvote BC, he's not been active and he hasn't produced his mason. Given the ambiguity of the situation I no longer feel comfortable voting BC. As I've already stated, I will be voting kita for mayor.
My lynch choice is still GGQ. I thought seriously about Palmar but I just could not imagine a situation with him as scum where he'd be stupid enough to post like he is.
I'd also briefly like to talk about mattchew. In no way is he confirmed. None. Instead, like everyone else, we only have his actions to judge him by. So far all he has done is use WIFOM arguments about why he's town, call himself confirmed, say he'd lynch three easy suspects, and post extremely aggressively. He hasn't done anything to help the town so I'd advise people not to vote for him.
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On January 15 2012 03:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
He masoned Sand Meapak...you're now suspicious for missing what several others have also missed. -.-
He posted while I was writing on my itouch, I didn't see it. Anyway sorry for missing it earlier BC, I'll leave my vote on you since the whole "did he or didnt he" issue was the only problem I had.
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On January 15 2012 03:06 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 02:54 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Not to mention, BC declared his mason status 7 hours before you did, why are you a better choice than him, if the main thing confirming you as town is how quickly you declared your role? Because my posting, my logic, and the lack of cases against me (other than slippery slope highly unlikely situations) make me far more townie than BC is.
No actually they don't. Your only reason for being mayor is that you're a mason and that foolishness trusts you. Given foolishnesses actions so far it's pretty clear he's trolling so that's really not an endorsement. And as for your mason claim, you're no more confirmed than BC is and he's done a lot more than you.
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On January 15 2012 03:15 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 03:12 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 15 2012 03:06 Mattchew wrote:On January 15 2012 02:54 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Not to mention, BC declared his mason status 7 hours before you did, why are you a better choice than him, if the main thing confirming you as town is how quickly you declared your role? Because my posting, my logic, and the lack of cases against me (other than slippery slope highly unlikely situations) make me far more townie than BC is. No actually they don't. Your only reason for being mayor is that you're a mason and that foolishness trusts you. Given foolishnesses actions so far it's pretty clear he's trolling so that's really not an endorsement. And as for your mason claim, you're no more confirmed than BC is and he's done a lot more than you. imma quote myself from earlier Show nested quote +I want you to ask yourself, What are the real odds of about 13 hours after roles go out that a scum team elects me as mason over a vet, sends me at the best town player who already made a troll campaign, and comes up with a relatively elaborate plan to get me (A non-vet) into office.
Is it possible, yes. Is it 99% unlikely, yes.
I guess you're a newer player. This is WIFOM not logical reasoning.
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EPT
