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On January 24 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 09:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
As scum he HAS the role information and would never get them wrong.
This is what you're saying - I said that he wouldn't want to out his reports fully because he's afraid of getting the role wrong and your response was Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 09:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
As scum he HAS the role information and would never get them wrong.
Do you believe that's true or not?
wow. I am talking against a wall here.
let me try this again. I was assuming that you were saying, hiro is scum because he left out sandros role. which both dt and scum have.
get it?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 24 2012 08:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think Foolish only playing the game exclusively outside the thread is scummy as hell - but that could be just me.
I've been masoned twice, and anything that has been said between me and those two people (Mattchew and BC) has been said in the thread. So I'm very confused on what "outside the thread" means considering I've only been in the thread @.@
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Answer the question JayJay.
Do you believe that scum have everyone's role information in addition to their alignment or not?
I understand that there was some kind of miscommunication or whatever, but in arguing with me you're saying things that are patently false and misleading, such as "scum have role information and would never get it wrong" and "scum would out his reports for town-cred".
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On January 24 2012 09:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
JayJay - it's not based on setup alone - it's based on the timing of his claim, the information he's provided and meta. The setup discussion is just a means to get people to look at the REST of my case, which admittedly is spread out over the course of a few posts. Maybe you can enlighten me as to why townHiro would refuse to out his reports the night after he claims loudly in-thread?
Foolishness is new - but the longer he stays alive, the more suspicious he becomes because he's a strong vet. Same with BC. At the moment, my read on Foolish is based on the fact that he's playing the game almost exclusively out-of-thread and the fact that he put BM up for mayor. My read on him is pretty dependent on other factors, because I have almost nothing to base it off in-thread.
I'm not interested in lynching glurio. He seems newish town to me.
I'll try to convince you. Not right now, but I'll take the challenge. Albeit, there isn't much to analyse, but I will do what I can.
Also, Toad is rising on the red-ranking.
The Anti-BC talk is going pretty strong, and I think his last post really hit a note for me. Toad talks about how BC would be on the chopping block if Bill flips town.
RE: Toad
Why would he be on the chopping block? Do you want to lynch him in an eye-for-an-eye? What happens if BC flips green, do we kill you too? You don't lynch a player because they call out another player, analyse their posts/play, push for a lynch, and then they flip green. That's stupid reasoning. That player handles one Vote. Don't blame that one person for everyone else derping around the thread and not being able to come up with their own logical reasoning for voting for someone, and just sheeping onto a bandwagon. To reiterate, we're in the business of killing red, not killing sub-par green play.
That being said, I think Jayjay? said it before. I don't see what bonus we get for taking 90% of the day to talk about one player when we end up not doing anything at the end of the day. It makes no sense that we would spend so much time talking about the alignment of a player and than make no action to kill him at the end of the day, especially after so much smoke has been blown in our face regarding so many different parts of this game already.
I ran into Munk-E on the ladder yesterday. Not sure if he is going to come back. He said he had "shit to do" so he was pretty non-committal about this game.
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United States13896 Posts
I'm reading a lot of confusion in this thread. (still reading btw)
I'm unvoting my double lynch. I only voted for it because I wanted to go with my plan and that doesn't look like a plausible twist atm. More coming soon. Page 191 now.
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On January 24 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
Answer the question JayJay.
Do you believe that scum have everyone's role information in addition to their alignment or not?
I understand that there was some kind of miscommunication or whatever, but in arguing with me you're saying things that are patently false and misleading, such as "scum have role information and would never get it wrong" and "scum would out his reports for town-cred".
notice how they are two different sentences. they would
a) give out sandros role, because they have the information.
b) give out a green report with a good chance to succeed with a bluesnipe if it fails.
I know that scum has no role informatio on town. but they do on scum obv. My "give out role information" concerned sandro.
If I was mafia, I'd give the role, too, in order to get more towncred....
That's all I am saying.
/sleep. and please please be more rational and less overaggressive. That doesn't help town whatsoever...
and your defense without any accusations gave you another pair of scum points on my list...
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On January 24 2012 09:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
As scum he HAS the role information and would never get them wrong. Because he is freaking scum. You said this point before and it makes ZEEERO sense. If he's a DT he has the full role information, if he's scum he has them too. And he also could provide right reports, because as scum OR DT he has a right report ready. Think a little.
On January 24 2012 09:52 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
Answer the question JayJay.
Do you believe that scum have everyone's role information in addition to their alignment or not?
I understand that there was some kind of miscommunication or whatever, but in arguing with me you're saying things that are patently false and misleading, such as "scum have role information and would never get it wrong" and "scum would out his reports for town-cred". notice how they are two different sentences. they would a) give out sandros role, because they have the information. b) give out a green report with a good chance to succeed with a bluesnipe if it fails. I know that scum has no role informatio on town. but they do on scum obv. My "give out role information" concerned sandro. If I was mafia, I'd give the role, too, in order to get more towncred.... That's all I am saying. /sleep. and please please be more rational and less overaggressive. That doesn't help town whatsoever... and your defense without any accusations gave you another pair of scum points on my list...
JayJay has changed his story, I'm guessing because someone in his IRC channel read the thread and isn't retarded. He said to me that he thought scum had the role information of everyone in town - I don't know why as scum he would do such a thing, because it's false and incredibly stupid...but when I called him out on it, suddenly he was only talking about the report regarding Sandroba, which is NOT what we were initially talking about. Notice in the first quote all the plural instances - it's clear that he's saying that I'm wrong "because scum know the roles of everyone in town, so why wouldn't they out them for town cred?"...except when I called him out on how ludicrous that was, suddenly he was talking about something else...and it's MY fault for misunderstanding too.
When we were talking about this at first, he was trying to discredit my theory. Now he's trying to discredit me personally by repeatedly calling my questioning 'irrational' and 'aggressive'. I'm just trying to get at the correct information here. Go back and see if anything I'm typing is 'irrational'. Aggressive I'll admit to, because this guy has been softly calling me scum all game...now he's acting like I'm some super-town read, but my reaction to his glurio question has "given me scum points"...like, OKAY BUD! I've been on your list all game, what do I care if I got a couple of "scum points" from you? + Show Spoiler +
I'm amending my list to include JayJay on the bottom, unbolded half. Foolishness gets subbed out for his reaction to my accusation re: out-of-thread. We're cool dude.
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Btw since noone is talking about my posts about BC anymore and one guy even called me (rightfully, because it was complete bullshit) out for it I might as well post it :p
It's a part of todays log (I'm only quoting the part I need to quote) both in german and english, it's really short because I did those posts on BC on purpose:
+ Show Spoiler [german] +
Session Start: Mon Jan 23 23:35:36 2012
Session Ident: supers
[23:35] Session Ident: supers (QuakeNet, Toad|)(censored)
[23:36] <supers> also warte
[23:36] <supers> sehr geil
[23:36] <supers> dein post ist richtig gut angekommen
[23:37] <supers> das lockt die ganzen trottel aus ihren löchern
[23:37] <supers> perfekt
01[23:37] <Toad|> ja wollte was zum diskutieren kriegen
[23:37] <supers> sogar slardar lässt sich zu einem kommentar hinreißen
01[23:37] <Toad|> und endlich was von BC hören
[23:37] <supers> ja!!!!!
[23:37] <supers> extrem gut
[23:37] <supers> wir machen das noch weiter
[23:37] <supers> also
01[23:37] <Toad|> also hab ich einfach mal die logischen lücken ignoriert
[23:37] <supers> du machst BC noch ein bisschen an
01[23:37] <Toad|> und hoffe dass mich keiner dafür lyncht :D
[23:37] <supers> nein
[23:37] <supers> weil ich ja beweisen kann,
[23:37] <supers> dass du das absichtlich machst
[23:37] <supers> um diskussion zu erzeugen
[23:37] <supers> das ist perfekt
[23:38] <supers> so machen wirs
[23:38] <supers> mach mal weiter
[23:38] <supers> und wir schaun
[23:38] <supers> wer drauf anspringt
[23:38] <supers> wenn BC town ist
[23:38] <supers> dann macht die mafia da mit
[23:38] <supers> die müssen ihn anschiessen
[23:38] <supers> wenn danach rauskommt, dass du das nur gefaked hast
[23:38] <supers> dann stehen sie komplett nakt da
censored by sopa
[23:39] <supers> BM ist wahrscheinlich einfach nur ein idiot
[23:39] <supers> er könnte noch von Nutzen sein
[23:40] <supers> wenn nicht dann nicht
[23:42] <supers> slardar war orange
[23:42] <supers> ay ay ay
[23:52] <supers> haha
[23:53] <supers> okay du solltest es lassen ^_^
censored by sopa
[23:53] <supers> lass es mal noch ne stunde dahinstehen
[23:53] <supers> ich bin ma ne runde LOL nerden
[23:53] <supers> ^_:^
01[23:53] <Toad|> :p
+ Show Spoiler [english] +Session Start: Mon Jan 23 23:35:36 2012 Session Ident: supers [23:35] Session Ident: supers (QuakeNet, Toad|) (webchat@XXXXXXXX) [23:35] <supers> sehr gut - 01[23:35] supers is webchat@XXXXXXXXX * http://webchat.quakenet.org01[23:35] supers on #TLMafia 01[23:35] supers using *.quakenet.org QuakeNet IRC Server 01[23:35] supers End of /WHOIS list. - 01[23:36] <Toad|> yeah thought the same when I read that post [23:36] <supers> ok wait [23:36] <supers> really awesome [23:36] <supers> your post got a lot of attention [23:37] <supers> it gets all those fools crawl out of their holes [23:37] <supers> perfect 01[23:37] <Toad|> yeah wanted to generate something for discussion [23:37] <supers> even slardar is posting something 01[23:37] <Toad|> and get some information about BC [23:37] <supers> yes!!!!! [23:37] <supers> really awesome [23:37] <supers> we're going to continue with that [23:37] <supers> ok 01[23:37] <Toad|> so I just ignored everything that's not making sense [23:37] <supers> keep on hitting BC 01[23:37] <Toad|> and I hope that noone is going to get my lynched for that :p [23:37] <supers> no [23:37] <supers> I can prove [23:37] <supers> that you did that on purpose [23:37] <supers> to generate some discussion [23:37] <supers> that's perfect [23:38] <supers> that's how we're going to proceed [23:38] <supers> keep on going [23:38] <supers> and we'll see [23:38] <supers> who jumps on that [23:38] <supers> if BC's town [23:38] <supers> mafia will want to get on that [23:38] <supers> they have to discredit him [23:38] <supers> later when everyone knows this was faked [23:38] <supers> they'll be completly fucked censored by sopa![23:39] <supers> BM's probably just an idiot [23:39] <supers> and might come in handy [23:40] <supers> if not who cares [23:42] <supers> slardar was orange [23:42] <supers> ay ay ay [23:52] <supers> haha [23:53] <supers> okay you should stop ^-^ censored by sopa![23:53] <supers> just wait for another hour [23:53] <supers> I'm playing LOL [23:53] <supers> ^_:^ 01[23:53] <Toad|> :p
censored reads about townies a bit and only included the important stuff. So yeah. It was meant to generate some discussion and get people take somebody's side. Even got slardar talking so yeah, sry for looking so foolish but I really did want to get some information and I did not think that we could or even should try to avoid a BM lynch, because the situation about him is not going to get better and we'd have the exact same situation tomorrow again.
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On January 24 2012 08:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
hiro protagonist, WBG, BrownBear, BM, JayJay, risk.nuke
That's where I'm at guys. If BM flips town, BC goes where he's at. Foolish and risk I'm less sure on.
I'll be putting this list on every page that occurs between now and tomorrow morning. So don't bother spamming it out of sight scum, it's useless.
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United States13896 Posts
On January 24 2012 07:14 BrownBear wrote:
I should clarify. BM has outed me as a "bodyguard", and in the interest of not lying to town and hopefully cutting a little bit of the craziness out of this mess BM's created, I've decided to tell the truth - I am in fact a BG. I was hesitant at first for obvious reasons, but this is going to get talked to death over the course of the day and waste valuable time, and I just want what I can control to be cleared up, so I'm not "guilty by association" if BM happens to flip red.
That is all.
I thought bodyguards didn't know they were bodyguards. The OP says: "The town will not know who is selected as bodyguards, but the elected roles will." Bodyguard = town. Does not know he is bodyguard.
Am I wrong about this?
On January 24 2012 07:29 Slardar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:10 Toadesstern wrote:
ok glurio right, forgot about him, that makes:
BC
Supersoft
opz
jitsu
glurio
I'd say out of those two BC & opz sounds reasonable or only BC. This is speculation but let me explain my train of thoughts:
What we lynched so far: Godfather + Goon + Goon + Goon
So 6 people are left and we only found 1 powerrole, their beloved godfather. Let's just assume mafia HAS at least 1 mason. Do you think they would give mason powers to people like jitsu? I mean mason? They could give him another power role, no problem because those new people get away with lurking way more than people like BC. Therefore he's more safe and they can talk about how he would use it. Let me get this clear: I am NOT sayin jitsu is mafia, it's a thought experiment (wtf, dict.cc says it's "Gedankenexperiment" in english as well? That's german :p ).
Especially mason is hard to do for new players so BC makes perfect sense. Also Godfather on L makes perfect sense if BC is mayor because they don't need to godfather BC if he gets mayor. He's immune to DT's.
Given what I just said and yes it is speculation it sounds perfectly reasonable that BC might as well be a Mason and those other 3 power roles might or might now be hidden within lurkers. However again, I doubt mafia would give people like glurio or jitsu mason. I could see opz or Supersoft as reasonable but other than that?
Of course that implies that there's no other masons around who did not claim until now but since noone said a thing I'd say there's noone left. If there is another mason or you've been masoned by someone you're a moron and need to tell us.
I really don't see how mafia gave mason powers to someone like I already mentioned. Why did L flip without mason? Why did Sandroba flip without mason? Because there's another good player in here who's got mason powers, and that player is BC. That is exactly the road I was going to go down, since L is the "best scum", have to get inside his mind and put it hypothetically down on paper. More or less agree with this 100%, I was in compliance with anti-OpZ since Sheth posted his ideas, but he got killed the following day so I layed off and he posted a good defense. I think I've been pretty vocal about the BC thing since the beginning of this day. Again with BC vs BM , if everyone is convinced to wipe both off the face of the planet, it will be much easier to take out BC first, since if he's scum, and BM isn't scum and dies today, they will have nearly 50% of the votes (21 vs 9) which will make it a lot more difficult to lynch him. BM on the other hand, everyone wants him to die so I don't see how that would be an issue the following day.
You make a good point BC is dangerous to keep around as mayor as long as he continues to act so suspiciously. But your math is wrong it would be 21 to 8 mafia votes.
On January 24 2012 08:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 08:18 Cwave wrote:On January 24 2012 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
really? I'm already a proven fucking mason dickweed. -_- I've masoned protract, roba, foolishness and meapak. thats 4 uses. So you could argue I am red and that 3 of those people are red as well as a jack cannot use the same ability twice. So what is it?
Meapak myself and foolishness all red to support your theory.
Also, your trying to make a case of me using the past context of a word. I was a mason then, I am a mason now, I will continue being a mason in the future.
Why the hell are you guys making cases off of grammar when you're not doing event doing it properly? Funny that you list Sandroba(your first mason "target") as your second. Show me Meapak logs please right now and ill reconsider my vote. Note to self, remember this post. It's where I started doubting Cwave and p4NDemik are town. BC's getting a lot of flak, and realisitically, he seems unlikely to be scum, quadruply so if/when BM flips scum. Rather than push other scummier looking people, those two push someone who has already had tons of time in the spotlight.
Just because he's in the spotlight a lot (he is in all his games to my knowledge) doesn't mean my case is any less valid. Please don't group my case along with cwave's. He masoned me and he may be very easily swayed by my word but his support of my case is very poor, I'll even admit that. My case remains strong.
Still reading, at page 196 now
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Yay even I'm posting! At work no less, so where are all the other lurkers at!
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Actually, did an ISO. I'm amending my list again.
hiro protagonist, WBG, Opz, JayJay, BM, risk.nuke
These are listed in order of my preference of lynch, however if any of these players are up for lynch, it's got my support.
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well here goes a mislynch of an elected role
good job sheep
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On January 24 2012 10:40 Bill Murray wrote:
well here goes a mislynch of an elected role
good job sheep
Whatever happened to "I deserve to be lynched, I failed you as a Sheriff"?
Specifically, both of those statements that you made are still technically true if you're town - so why the attitude now?
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Hey Bill. Is BrownBear really a bodyguard?
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United States13896 Posts
One lesson we should all take as town from this game - never elect BM for any form of office. christ man. Regardless of your alignment you were the biggest mistake town made thus far this game.
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On January 24 2012 10:49 p4NDemik wrote:
One lesson we should all take as town from this game - never elect BM for any form of office. christ man. Regardless of your alignment you were the biggest mistake town made thus far this game.
QFT
p4N what are your reads on WBG and JayJay?
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I really wonder what foolish thinks. The guy who basicly said "let's vote BM into office, he's easy to read" and Jackal said everyone saying he understands what BM does is a liar.
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United States13896 Posts
On January 24 2012 10:55 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 10:49 p4NDemik wrote:
One lesson we should all take as town from this game - never elect BM for any form of office. christ man. Regardless of your alignment you were the biggest mistake town made thus far this game. QFT p4N what are your reads on WBG and JayJay?
I'll do some analysis when night comes I'm a bit worn out today. Done lots of writing and honestly I don't have the energy to write much more for the moment. I just want to sit back with popcorn for a second and wait for the inevitable flip as it appears BM isn't going to get out of his predicament any time soon.
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On January 24 2012 10:23 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:14 BrownBear wrote:
I should clarify. BM has outed me as a "bodyguard", and in the interest of not lying to town and hopefully cutting a little bit of the craziness out of this mess BM's created, I've decided to tell the truth - I am in fact a BG. I was hesitant at first for obvious reasons, but this is going to get talked to death over the course of the day and waste valuable time, and I just want what I can control to be cleared up, so I'm not "guilty by association" if BM happens to flip red.
That is all. I thought bodyguards didn't know they were bodyguards. The OP says: "The town will not know who is selected as bodyguards, but the elected roles will." Bodyguard = town. Does not know he is bodyguard. Am I wrong about this?Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:29 Slardar wrote:On January 24 2012 07:10 Toadesstern wrote:
ok glurio right, forgot about him, that makes:
BC
Supersoft
opz
jitsu
glurio
I'd say out of those two BC & opz sounds reasonable or only BC. This is speculation but let me explain my train of thoughts:
What we lynched so far: Godfather + Goon + Goon + Goon
So 6 people are left and we only found 1 powerrole, their beloved godfather. Let's just assume mafia HAS at least 1 mason. Do you think they would give mason powers to people like jitsu? I mean mason? They could give him another power role, no problem because those new people get away with lurking way more than people like BC. Therefore he's more safe and they can talk about how he would use it. Let me get this clear: I am NOT sayin jitsu is mafia, it's a thought experiment (wtf, dict.cc says it's "Gedankenexperiment" in english as well? That's german :p ).
Especially mason is hard to do for new players so BC makes perfect sense. Also Godfather on L makes perfect sense if BC is mayor because they don't need to godfather BC if he gets mayor. He's immune to DT's.
Given what I just said and yes it is speculation it sounds perfectly reasonable that BC might as well be a Mason and those other 3 power roles might or might now be hidden within lurkers. However again, I doubt mafia would give people like glurio or jitsu mason. I could see opz or Supersoft as reasonable but other than that?
Of course that implies that there's no other masons around who did not claim until now but since noone said a thing I'd say there's noone left. If there is another mason or you've been masoned by someone you're a moron and need to tell us.
I really don't see how mafia gave mason powers to someone like I already mentioned. Why did L flip without mason? Why did Sandroba flip without mason? Because there's another good player in here who's got mason powers, and that player is BC. That is exactly the road I was going to go down, since L is the "best scum", have to get inside his mind and put it hypothetically down on paper. More or less agree with this 100%, I was in compliance with anti-OpZ since Sheth posted his ideas, but he got killed the following day so I layed off and he posted a good defense. I think I've been pretty vocal about the BC thing since the beginning of this day. Again with BC vs BM , if everyone is convinced to wipe both off the face of the planet, it will be much easier to take out BC first, since if he's scum, and BM isn't scum and dies today, they will have nearly 50% of the votes (21 vs 9) which will make it a lot more difficult to lynch him. BM on the other hand, everyone wants him to die so I don't see how that would be an issue the following day. You make a good point BC is dangerous to keep around as mayor as long as he continues to act so suspiciously. But your math is wrong it would be 21 to 8 mafia votes. Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 08:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On January 24 2012 08:18 Cwave wrote:On January 24 2012 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
really? I'm already a proven fucking mason dickweed. -_- I've masoned protract, roba, foolishness and meapak. thats 4 uses. So you could argue I am red and that 3 of those people are red as well as a jack cannot use the same ability twice. So what is it?
Meapak myself and foolishness all red to support your theory.
Also, your trying to make a case of me using the past context of a word. I was a mason then, I am a mason now, I will continue being a mason in the future.
Why the hell are you guys making cases off of grammar when you're not doing event doing it properly? Funny that you list Sandroba(your first mason "target") as your second. Show me Meapak logs please right now and ill reconsider my vote. Note to self, remember this post. It's where I started doubting Cwave and p4NDemik are town. BC's getting a lot of flak, and realisitically, he seems unlikely to be scum, quadruply so if/when BM flips scum. Rather than push other scummier looking people, those two push someone who has already had tons of time in the spotlight. Just because he's in the spotlight a lot (he is in all his games to my knowledge) doesn't mean my case is any less valid. Please don't group my case along with cwave's. He masoned me and he may be very easily swayed by my word but his support of my case is very poor, I'll even admit that. My case remains strong. Still reading, at page 196 now
The bodyguards themselves were not told that they are bodyguards.
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EPT
