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On July 22 2011 11:11 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:59 DragonReborn422 wrote:
Jacinto and VisceraEyes look kind of scummy. Not sure on how much you guys have played though.
FOS (Finger of Suspicion) : Jacinto and Viscera. Ok this is the one and only time im going to use FOS...but i couldnt resist the first time. it's amusing to me in some way.
You guys look helpful but you're really not. Posts look a little forced. Jacinto looks a little better than Viscera.
I like Ace's posts.  All right Dragon, then we dispense with the pleasantries. I'm trying to create a pro-town environment. Tell me how that's scummy if you please. Clearly you agree with lynching randomly as Ace does, and his non-answer to my question apparently doesn't bother you because you're in perfect agreement about who you'd lynch given the reins. So let me pose this question to you, because I KNOW Ace has an answer for me. What benefit does town get from lynching a random person?
I'm not necessarily in favor of a random lynch. However, a random lynch has a solid success rate. Given that this is a game with a fair amount of beginners, it can be very easy for the mafia to direct the kills in this game. Again, a lot of this depends on how much you have played...but it looks like you have some experience.
I think your posts look a little forced and look helpful to the casual eye but really isn't helpful. Objecting to a random lynch by saying we have a higher chance of finding a mafia sounds really nice in theory....but honestly...i doubt the town has a higher than 25% of finding a mafia on day 1.
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On July 22 2011 11:18 Ace wrote:I've seen you and Palmar play before thats why 
Fair enough. So what, we're not good enough to play with you?  We're...what, anti-town by existing?
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On July 22 2011 11:17 Trotske wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 22 2011 11:06 Jacinto wrote:
@Ace
Allright, that makes more sense.
However, I don't really see the point of random lynching. Sure, the DT could get an investigation, but we still don't know if we actually have a DT or even a doctor in the game. I don't get how random lynching could "kick things off", to the contrary, to me it seems that a RL would just keep the game stagnated.
Could you explain more closely exactly how a RL would contribute to our cause? I agree with this. As far as I can see a RL has a 9:3 chance of just making us down a townie and we don't even know if we have a DT, If we have a DT then there is a 50% chance of there being a Roleblocker also if the DT claims they then have a 50% chance of being useless. Can someone please explain why a RL is better than a no lynch.
It isn't always better, but in this game with so many new players and an uncertain setup why not kick it off this way? Then on Day 2 see what happens.
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On July 22 2011 11:29 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:18 Ace wrote:I've seen you and Palmar play before thats why Fair enough. So what, we're not good enough to play with you? We're...what, anti-town by existing?
No and Yes
You guys have a weird ability to tunnel through anything, even Scum posting right before your eyes like RoL in CC Mafia. But I wouldn't REALLY vote for your lynch off of that because I've only seen it happen a few times and what happens in this game is far more important for my vote.
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On July 22 2011 11:23 DragonReborn422 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2011 10:59 DragonReborn422 wrote:
Jacinto and VisceraEyes look kind of scummy. Not sure on how much you guys have played though.
FOS (Finger of Suspicion) : Jacinto and Viscera. Ok this is the one and only time im going to use FOS...but i couldnt resist the first time. it's amusing to me in some way.
You guys look helpful but you're really not. Posts look a little forced. Jacinto looks a little better than Viscera.
I like Ace's posts. All right Dragon, then we dispense with the pleasantries. I'm trying to create a pro-town environment. Tell me how that's scummy if you please. Clearly you agree with lynching randomly as Ace does, and his non-answer to my question apparently doesn't bother you because you're in perfect agreement about who you'd lynch given the reins. So let me pose this question to you, because I KNOW Ace has an answer for me. What benefit does town get from lynching a random person? I'm not necessarily in favor of a random lynch. However, a random lynch has a solid success rate. Given that this is a game with a fair amount of beginners, it can be very easy for the mafia to direct the kills in this game. Again, a lot of this depends on how much you have played...but it looks like you have some experience. I think your posts look a little forced and look helpful to the casual eye but really isn't helpful. Objecting to a random lynch by saying we have a higher chance of finding a mafia sounds really nice in theory....but honestly...i doubt the town has a higher than 25% of finding a mafia on day 1.
That's where I guess we disagree. We have a BASELINE 25% chance to hit scum. At minimum. So any information we gather in the next few days INCREASES our chances of hitting scum. Sure, there's a chance that scum COULD lead the lynch, but there's also a chance that WE don't fall for it, or that WE force SCUM to lynch a partner. It all depends on the information we're able to get, and how we apply it. Arguing that we should random lynch because of something that COULD happen is ludicrous...just don't let it.
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@Ace
I'm for random lynching because I'm not expecting anyone to just out themselves so easily. I think it's a fun way to start off the game anyway because I'm not in the mood to read people arguing about things that aren't really that important to this game (like meta).
So this is your answer to my last post, asking for clearification. Of course no one is gonna do a total scumslip d1(chances are that no one will anyway), but we can still harvest information. As you know, this game isn't about getting people to openly admit that they are scum, it's about making a plaussible case against someone you think is acting wierd. Also, we are not discussing meta at all. We are discussing very concrete stuff, namely what to do d1. If you can't get reads out of this sort of discussions, what could you get reads from?
I feel that I have made my case pretty clear, but I am still not satisfied with the explaination for an RL that you have given. Please, explain more closely exactly how an RL would help us killing mafia in the long run(or even the short run for that matter).
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Ace, so far you're the ONLY person who's brought meta into the game. For someone who's so against 'arguing about things that aren't really that important to this game (like meta), that seems....contradictory. At best.
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You're missing the point of my argument Viscera. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. I found it strange that you protest it making you look scummy. That is all. Perhaps our chances of hitting the mafia is more than 25% perhaps not. Again, I don't care a lick about the lynch. I'm pointing out that you are trying to helpful to the inexperienced whereas you're actually not.
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It isn't always better, but in this game with so many new players and an uncertain setup why not kick it off this way? Then on Day 2 see what happens.
I don't understand this at all. The only thing this will give us is that we will be at exactly the same possition as d1, except with one less townie. I can't see how that's better than trying to lynch as good as possible. At least this will show us who is ready to vote for who, pressure reaction etc.
I could agree with doing a last minute RL, if it's obvious that we won't get an majority lynch, but other than that, I do not see the point.
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Yeah, Random Lynch could be fun. What's more fun than watching one of your fellow townies die because there was a 50% greater chance of hitting him than the scum who offered up Random Lynch in the first place.
Further, what then sir? Best case scenario: we hit scum randomly. Huzzah! But then were are we? Right back here were we are now because we all decided unanimously to lynch someone. What information is there to glean from that? What stances are people going to be held accountable for?
No, Random Lynching is an awful idea. And the fact that you're so wishywashy about your PERSONAL desire to start things off that way (a fun way to start, kick things off, why not), combined with your contradictory statement about meta, you get the honor of being my first scum pick. Congratulations sir!
##Vote: Ace
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On July 22 2011 11:43 DragonReborn422 wrote:
You're missing the point of my argument Viscera. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. I found it strange that you protest it making you look scummy. That is all. Perhaps our chances of hitting the mafia is more than 25% perhaps not. Again, I don't care a lick about the lynch. I'm pointing out that you are trying to helpful to the inexperienced whereas you're actually not.
Could you point out the flaws in his reasoning? It seems to me that your posts have been more useless than his by bashing what he has to say and not supporting it at all other than saying "It has worked before" and not giving and evidence.
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@Dragon
Actually, you're saying I'm not helpful to YOU. I've answered Jacinto's questions to his satisfaction, where Ace has still failed to do so. Palmar seems to think my opening statements were fine. You're speaking for town when you shouldn't be. Let town speak for themselves. Vote for me if you really think I'm scummy, but don't put words in everyone else' mouths. Let them think for themselves.
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On July 22 2011 11:49 Trotske wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:43 DragonReborn422 wrote:
You're missing the point of my argument Viscera. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. I found it strange that you protest it making you look scummy. That is all. Perhaps our chances of hitting the mafia is more than 25% perhaps not. Again, I don't care a lick about the lynch. I'm pointing out that you are trying to helpful to the inexperienced whereas you're actually not. Could you point out the flaws in his reasoning? It seems to me that your posts have been more useless than his by bashing what he has to say and not supporting it at all other than saying "It has worked before" and not giving and evidence.
I haven't bashed anyone. What are you talking about? His reasoning is that the town can do better than a random lynch on day 1 and we should not random lynch. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. Maybe THIS town CAN do better than a random lynch on day1. It could also DO worse than a random lynch on day1. I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHICH.
I am pointing out that he appears helpful by saying that oh yea we can analayze and talk and discuss and we have a better chance of finding a mafia on day1. I think this looks pretty cool to the casual observer as yea...he sounds intelligent and useful...whereas in reality....we really don't know how good this town is. If we have a terrible town maybe we should just keeping randoming!!
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On July 22 2011 11:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
@Dragon
Actually, you're saying I'm not helpful to YOU. I've answered Jacinto's questions to his satisfaction, where Ace has still failed to do so. Palmar seems to think my opening statements were fine. You're speaking for town when you shouldn't be. Let town speak for themselves. Vote for me if you really think I'm scummy, but don't put words in everyone else' mouths. Let them think for themselves.
Put words into everyone's mouths? Please show me when I have done this?
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@Ace
Just look at what randomness has gotten you so far!
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On July 22 2011 11:37 Jacinto wrote:@Ace Show nested quote +I'm for random lynching because I'm not expecting anyone to just out themselves so easily. I think it's a fun way to start off the game anyway because I'm not in the mood to read people arguing about things that aren't really that important to this game (like meta). So this is your answer to my last post, asking for clearification. Of course no one is gonna do a total scumslip d1(chances are that no one will anyway), but we can still harvest information. As you know, this game isn't about getting people to openly admit that they are scum, it's about making a plaussible case against someone you think is acting wierd. Also, we are not discussing meta at all. We are discussing very concrete stuff, namely what to do d1. If you can't get reads out of this sort of discussions, what could you get reads from? I feel that I have made my case pretty clear, but I am still not satisfied with the explaination for an RL that you have given. Please, explain more closely exactly how an RL would help us killing mafia in the long run(or even the short run for that matter).
I've already explained myself as best I can but here goes again. My "meta" responses were in part based off the question VE asked earlier. Why random lynch?
No meta to go off of + meta being sketchy in most circumstances
Not going to play expecting a blatant Scum slip on Day 1
No knowledge of the setup yet until a possible DT claim or death of a power role
My experience in these setups where people just generally dont know what do
To see what happens just because I want to
Add it all up and I'd rather start off with a random lynch.
On July 22 2011 11:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ace, so far you're the ONLY person who's brought meta into the game. For someone who's so against 'arguing about things that aren't really that important to this game (like meta), that seems....contradictory. At best.
How is it? I'm not arguing about meta. I'm also not pushing any major points about it.
On July 22 2011 11:46 Jacinto wrote:Show nested quote +
It isn't always better, but in this game with so many new players and an uncertain setup why not kick it off this way? Then on Day 2 see what happens.
I don't understand this at all. The only thing this will give us is that we will be at exactly the same possition as d1, except with one less townie. I can't see how that's better than trying to lynch as good as possible. At least this will show us who is ready to vote for who, pressure reaction etc. I could agree with doing a last minute RL, if it's obvious that we won't get an majority lynch, but other than that, I do not see the point.
That is only true if we are in a setup with no DT/Medic, everyone gets null reads and we don't lynch a Mafia on Day 1. Otherwise we'll be in a better position.
On July 22 2011 11:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah, Random Lynch could be fun. What's more fun than watching one of your fellow townies die because there was a 50% greater chance of hitting him than the scum who offered up Random Lynch in the first place.
Further, what then sir? Best case scenario: we hit scum randomly. Huzzah! But then were are we? Right back here were we are now because we all decided unanimously to lynch someone. What information is there to glean from that? What stances are people going to be held accountable for?
No, Random Lynching is an awful idea. And the fact that you're so wishywashy about your PERSONAL desire to start things off that way (a fun way to start, kick things off, why not), combined with your contradictory statement about meta, you get the honor of being my first scum pick. Congratulations sir!
##Vote: Ace
This is exactly why I said you wouldn't be a bad lynch. Show me where I have been wishy washy. Point out the exact sentences in my posts.
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On July 22 2011 11:54 DragonReborn422 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:49 Trotske wrote:On July 22 2011 11:43 DragonReborn422 wrote:
You're missing the point of my argument Viscera. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. I found it strange that you protest it making you look scummy. That is all. Perhaps our chances of hitting the mafia is more than 25% perhaps not. Again, I don't care a lick about the lynch. I'm pointing out that you are trying to helpful to the inexperienced whereas you're actually not. Could you point out the flaws in his reasoning? It seems to me that your posts have been more useless than his by bashing what he has to say and not supporting it at all other than saying "It has worked before" and not giving and evidence. I haven't bashed anyone. What are you talking about? His reasoning is that the town can do better than a random lynch on day 1 and we should not random lynch. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. Maybe THIS town CAN do better than a random lynch on day1. It could also DO worse than a random lynch on day1. I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHICH. I am pointing out that he appears helpful by saying that oh yea we can analayze and talk and discuss and we have a better chance of finding a mafia on day1. I think this looks pretty cool to the casual observer as yea...he sounds intelligent and useful...whereas in reality....we really don't know how good this town is. If we have a terrible town maybe we should just keeping randoming!!
How can the town do worse than a RL day1.
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On July 22 2011 11:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
@Dragon
Actually, you're saying I'm not helpful to YOU. I've answered Jacinto's questions to his satisfaction, where Ace has still failed to do so. Palmar seems to think my opening statements were fine. You're speaking for town when you shouldn't be. Let town speak for themselves. Vote for me if you really think I'm scummy, but don't put words in everyone else' mouths. Let them think for themselves.
oh ok this makes it even easier.
## vote VisceraEyes
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On July 22 2011 11:23 DragonReborn422 wrote:
I think your posts look a little forced and look helpful to the casual eye but really isn't helpful. Objecting to a random lynch by saying we have a higher chance of finding a mafia sounds really nice in theory....but honestly...i doubt the town has a higher than 25% of finding a mafia on day 1.
On July 22 2011 11:43 DragonReborn422 wrote:
I'm pointing out that you are trying to helpful to the inexperienced whereas you're actually not.
You're continuing to insist that my posts aren't helpful to the inexperienced here in town. What you should be saying is that my posts aren't helpful to YOU. I'm not even TRYING to be helpful. I'm just posting what I've found from my limited experience what a beneficial environment to find scum in would be. Take it or leave it bro, that's totally up to you.
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EPT
