Nisani is ridiculous scummy and should be killed asap.
Nisani has done virtually 0 scum hunting and contributed absolutely nothing to the town this game. While repeatedly talking about how much work he is putting into his graph (which no one will ever get to see). A common scum tell is to talk about what analysis they are providing the town without every actually producing any. If that weren't enough look at these posts.
On July 20 2011 02:09 Nisani201 wrote: Unless there's something I've missed (which is unlikely because I read through the thread 3x as slowly as I input everything into my node graph), the only evidence against redFF that isn't related to supersoft is the fact that he posts a lot of spam, which isn't enough to warrant a lynch at all.
On July 20 2011 01:54 Nisani201 wrote: I really don't think we should be voting for redFF today. Most of the evidence against him has to do with supersoft, therefore lynching supersoft first will give us more information on him, and whether or not the lynch will be worth it.
On July 19 2011 04:11 Nisani201 wrote:
Supersoft has far too many scumtells to be ignored; however if he flips green then I would seriously consider lynching Curu D2, as he started the bandwagon.
A) He strongly defends scum Redff, trying to repeatedly push the lynch off of him.
B) He tries to get supersoft lynched with the reasoning that it will give us more information ( I am sure if we lynched supersoft and he flipped green he would have used that to defend red)
C) The worst thing by far is he calls supersoft incredibly scummy but then says that we should lynch curu if super flips green. Remember this is the exact same strategy redff was using. Red was strongly attacking curu so that when super flipped green he could use that to try and get the town to mislynch curu day2. Also after he made this post syllo called him out on it and he completely disappeared from the thread.
Nisani has provided nothing to the town while promising analysis that we will never see. Defended and tried to push the lynch off of a confirmed scum. And he used the same strategy as Redff in trying to prepare a mislynch of curu day 2, despite the fact that he himself called Super scummy. ##vote Nisani
On July 19 2011 19:40 Drazerk wrote: Well I gave you a chance Pyo but not responding to PMs when I try and give you a chance isn't good enough.
We actually have great track records for Day 1 lynches recently and abstaining the vote is stupid.
Current FoS - Wiggles ( reasons stated earlier by myself and ghrur where he is basically has suddenly done a 180 and isn't following his scum meta at all but isn't committing to anything, He's had more than enough time so his defence to my claim isn't valid )
And now Pyo - Basically abstaining the vote for no good reason
Will be keeping my vote on wiggles.
Abstain might have been a poor word choice. It's a place-holder vote.
On July 19 2011 18:02 Pyo wrote: Since I'm not really sure who to vote for and I'm not exactly sure when the day is over, I'm going to put a place-holder vote for someone nobody else is likely to vote for (i.e. I'm going to abstain from voting day 1 unless something really obvious comes up).
On July 19 2011 19:54 CreamyButter wrote: ugh i am WAY behind
Pyo:
You wanna lynch me? Go ahead. You wanna vigi hit me? Go ahead. When I flip green maybe town will start paying to TAA.
This annoys the hell out of me, enough to vote for him. Either he's a scum with the oldest bluff in the book, or a townie who's really given up and just can't make constructive arguments. Spitefully hoping the town lynches you while playing town is horrible.
Now:
Alright, so you say that you dislike policy posts
I made a post saying that people shouldn't post huge long policy posts stating the premise of the game
and you say that you dislike bandwagoning
I just don't like day 1 bandwagons... has town ever managed to bandwagon scum day 1?
So what exactly does that leave us with? Exactly what would the first few posts in the thread be, if not policy posts? Without these policy posts that you detest so very much, you would have pretty much no opinion on anything. You're advocating a thread where the only discussion revolves around...well, not very much of anything. I guess you'd hunt spammers? Your dream situation is one where
The day 1 lynch is just going to be a completely random crap shoot.
, no one talks about game strategy, and where everyone gets exactly one vote. That is a huge waste of time, and is pretty much the mafia dream.
Abstain might have been a poor word choice. It's a place-holder vote.
Place-holder that has no influence on the vote is pretty close. Exactly what are you waiting for here? There is significant evidence against quite a few people, all of which you deem to be worthless.
Also, I'm under no obligation to respond to your pm spam:
If you were green then replying and defending yourself would be in your best interest, because you would have nothing to hide.
##unvote ##vote Pyo
ugh, well I seem to just be digging myself deeper and deeper... I honestly didn't think I was being scummy by saying making policy posts at the start of games was bad. Well whatever, I'm just gonna respond to palmer here too
I've played 2 TL mafia games so far.
XL - iGrok makes one of those ridiculous policy posts... he turns out to be mafia GF. So I'm a little biased against them. XL - two day 1 bandwagons, in neither did mafia vote for the person and in neither case were the bandwagon target mafia SNMMIV - yeah I pressured Draz and it turned out he was town. Random tunneling isn't necessarily the most productive. Lesson learned: random tunneling doesn't really work. Plus with all the chaos of day 1 it's really hard to even interpret alignments from votes.
Also palmer, you have my posts about wiggles in the wrong chronological order and taken out of the context of the thread.
I started the whole thing about wiggles and CB by saying that policy posts are bad (second quote). Then after being attacked for having said that, i responded with your first quote. The third quote where I'm "backing off from accusing wiggles" (note that I never really was accusing him in the first place) came after drazerk posted his attack against on him and after I received the following PM's:
Original Message From Drazerk: Lets face it - Wiggles puts in zero effort when he plays as scum and everyone picks him out instantly ( See RTM / WaW2 )
I reckon he has changed his play style accordingly but I can't analyse till a bit later
Original Message From Mig: Pyo!
Who do you think is suspicious so far? Other than wiggles?
Btw I agree that wiggles is suspicious but for very different reasons than you. Wiggles is right that his posting long pro town thing is a null tell at best. I have played many games where the person to post long pro town things was mafia and also many where they were town. However, posting like this is very unlike wiggles normal play. He is usually much more laid back the first couple of days. So for him to play this way he 95% has some goal he is pushing behind it. And usually it will be the mafia/3rd party who are trying to push their goals this early.
As stated before, I don't really like early day 1 bandwagons, so I didn't really want to start one. Random tunneling I suppose can work (gtrsrs against iGrok in XL sort of comes to mind), but most often it's a total whiff (every game kurumi plays in, the 2 day 1 bandwagons in XL, gtrsrs against everyone in SNMMIV).
Finally, I'll simply add that I also used a place-holder vote day 1 of mafia XL until I was able to make up my mind about who to actually vote for.
Once again you are lying, but beyond that you play way defensive, saying you are so wishy washy because you dont like day1 bandwagons, what?
Now i created some room for the next quote, since this is gold :
On July 19 2011 21:39 Kurumi wrote: prplhz y u so flyin' like a g6 under the radar Kavradgon, y u no aggressive like in PYPI redff, y u so scum supersoft,y u terrible scum pyo,y u terrible 3rd party come at me mafias
This is like the 4th game I've seen of you now where you've been making insane posts like this. I would have thought that co-hosting a game would have gotten you to chill out, but I guess that was a little much to hope for. Throwing around accusations just creates chaos in an already chaotic day 1.
hi, should we lynch redFF?
He's been spammy, which while not good town behavior doesn't mean he's mafia. In fact, I'm almost inclined to think that there's no way mafia would spam like that as it almost invites a policy lynch, but that's a little too WIFOM to conclude anything. As I've said before, I don't have a strong scum read on anyone. This is also my first PM game so it is a little harder to judge things given that many posts are likely in response to or a direct consequence of some PM conversations. Once flips start happening it'll be easier/more reasonable to start drawing conclusions.
He defended redFF, extremely apologetic, backing of right away, Pyo why thanks that you remembered me of your existence again.
Day1 he promised to make a vote, but it was too hard for him make up his mind quite yet so he made a placeholder vote on someone who were no accusations against and who wouldnt get lynched. He didnt form an opinion on anyone except for redFF who he defended, and was apologetive the rest of the game. Pyo you are so scum.
Are you just herpa derping because I was calling you out for randomly backing off of me? or do you just not read. Like 3 posts above I just said that I had intended to switch my vote to VE but missed the deadline. Formed an opinion on redFF? Defend him? What? This is the only post I've made about him:
On July 19 2011 22:22 Pyo wrote: He's been spammy, which while not good town behavior doesn't mean he's mafia. In fact, I'm almost inclined to think that there's no way mafia would spam like that as it almost invites a policy lynch, but that's a little too WIFOM to conclude anything. As I've said before, I don't have a strong scum read on anyone. This is also my first PM game so it is a little harder to judge things given that many posts are likely in response to or a direct consequence of some PM conversations. Once flips start happening it'll be easier/more reasonable to start drawing conclusions.
How is that forming an opinion? I was in a WIFOM position where he's acting so random and spammy that I felt like he was being a kurumi-esque troll - but I've never played with him before so I had no way of knowing whether that was standard behavior.
Also, I'm far from the only one who gave no real day 1 opinion about who to lynch; it's just that I was the only one being constantly pressured about it. And I felt like caving to the random pressure was exactly what scum so I just honestly stated that I had no opinion yet.
Also, for the record, here's what I explained to Mig when he pm'ed me early in day 1 (before you started tunneling me) that explains my approach to analyzing these games: + Show Spoiler +
Original Message From Pyo: I wouldn't exactly say that wiggles is necessarily suspicious (although you aren't the first person to pm me saying that wiggles is playing out of character - which is in and of it self just a little suspicious), rather I was simply saying that he shouldn't be cleared as pro-town because he made that policy post.
It'll take me a little bit of time to come up with anyone who I consider "suspicious." What I like to do rather than read through the thread in chronological order multiple times is to go person by person and look at their posts and look for trends/inconsistencies in their posting. And this early, it's simply impossible to tell.
If I had to vote for someone right now, I'd vote for gtrsrs because he's an asshole and the longer he's around the more likely town is to just simply stop playing because they're just so pissed off at him.
Who do you think is suspicious so far? Other than wiggles?
Btw I agree that wiggles is suspicious but for very different reasons than you. Wiggles is right that his posting long pro town thing is a null tell at best. I have played many games where the person to post long pro town things was mafia and also many where they were town. However, posting like this is very unlike wiggles normal play. He is usually much more laid back the first couple of days. So for him to play this way he 95% has some goal he is pushing behind it. And usually it will be the mafia/3rd party who are trying to push their goals this early.
LOL dude you totally screwed up, the VE bandwagon was bussed on by the mafia in an attempt to save their scum buddy, every townie that voted on VE is stupid, and you said you wanted to vote him LOL.
On July 21 2011 21:26 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I want to call out Amber[LighT]. I've been told normally you play like a good player and this game you have been contributing absolutely nothing. You're known as a scumhunter and this time your posts are as empty as it gets. You talk about game mechanics and never give your opinion. What is going on?
On July 18 2011 10:45 Amber[LighT] wrote: I don't think the zodiac list necessarily benefits as much as people claim. If we use this idea we need to stick with it past day 1.
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?
Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers.
Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list.
From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members.
A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though.
From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies.
As a 3rd party player: It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read.
There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though,
On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are. These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting. By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess.
I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs.
Why would we do this and how would you even pick a person to be in that position? I don't think anyone should automatically get off a list "just because."
You are right about the idea of lynching all lurkers; however it contradicts with the idea that mafia members would be active in this game. Why would we policy A if idea B means policy A could not reveal scum? I'm always under the assumption that mafia are the best when lurking. The less information they post, the harder it is to trap them. Check out Closed Casket for a perfect example of a mafia team that was able to skate away without posting much information.
There is going to be a ton of KP tonight if we don't organize our shots. How do we want to handle our hatters? I think they should avoid flipping the switch too quickly and focus on strategic bomb placements. They should NEVER reveal themselves as they are ideal RB targets.
Veterans should also be prepared to take hits, so I hope you guys are leading town discussion. You guys are going to be very powerful when it comes to late game as you can get a +1 life back.
Vigis should consider targeting inactive players, or players who are lynch suspects, or just not shoot at all. Do we want to keep our vigilantes from firing?
I would like to hear from some of the newer players, since there's a LOT of you guys. I didn't realize there were so many ^_____^
Game mechanics, and you didn't follow up on any of your own suggestions. What happened to organizing shots?
On July 19 2011 22:26 Mig wrote: Pyo wtf you realize all you have done this game is say you aren't suspicious of anyone like 50 times. Surely there has to be someone you are suspicious of? There are 25 pages of posts. Are you really saying you haven't seen anything at all that worries you?
I don't understand why everyone keeps pressuring me to start accusing people. Sure there are suspicious people. About half the people in the game haven't really posted much of anything. We've got a bunch of people throwing out 4+ simultaneous accusations. You've been happy-go-lucky PM spamming. Cluttering up the thread with a million and one accusations is dumb. The 3 big fos's are supersoft, redff, and myself. I know I'm town. As I just said above redff seems to be almost too spammy to be mafia, and as for supersoft:
Original Message From supersoft: mh probably... I'll never make jokes in english again. Nobody got the irony :-/
But it's like supersoft 8:5 redFF
what do you think of redFF? would be very kind of you to look over the accuses against him - i think there is something in it. + i don't give up so fast ;D
Original Message From Pyo: you might be dead anyway. I wasn't following the thread carefully when the whole VT claim nonsense went down, but you may have screwed yourself there.
Original Message From supersoft:
On July 19 2011 21:46 Pyo wrote:
On July 19 2011 21:39 Kurumi wrote: prplhz y u so flyin' like a g6 under the radar Kavradgon, y u no aggressive like in PYPI redff, y u so scum supersoft,y u terrible scum pyo,y u terrible 3rd party come at me mafias
This is like the 4th game I've seen of you now where you've been making insane posts like this. I would have thought that co-hosting a game would have gotten you to chill out, but I guess that was a little much to hope for. Throwing around accusations just creates chaos in an already chaotic day 1.
i thought the exact the same thing :D but in my current situation, i was afraid another honest statement would be my end :D
I'm inclined to believe that some of the whole VT claim thing might have been lost in translation, but then again, why would he try to be my friend? It seems weird.
That's suspicious behavior. These people need to be flushed out. Sure not every inactive player is scum, but if you let mafia get away without posting much they're going to win. The town is really its biggest enemy in this situation, which is what the mafia wants.
Game mechanics. Even calling your own behavior suspicious. Funky stuff.
On July 19 2011 23:57 Mig wrote: Curu if mafia gets into the circle they won't kill the vigs lol. They will attempt to misdirect all of the shots. Your plan has a huge potential for a disaster. I would rather the Vigs act on their own since they don't know for sure right now who is guaranteed to be town besides themselves. Their shots won't be wasted by overlap anyway. If we do have a confirmed townie later on then we can discuss the idea of people claiming to him.
Vigilantes are called Vigilantes for a reason.... If they were organized they'd be called a militia. You don't want to invest too much trust in one person or group. We did this in a game last year, might have been Harry Potter mafia. The town won, but it was extremely luck related. We blindly followed a couple of players [might have been Deconduo and Fishball?], but the host and many of the really good vets explained that though it won the game, it was very bad town play. It only takes one mafia infiltration to mess it up, and you [Curu] want to put all of our shooters in one basket?
On July 19 2011 23:57 Mig wrote: Curu if mafia gets into the circle they won't kill the vigs lol. They will attempt to misdirect all of the shots. Your plan has a huge potential for a disaster. I would rather the Vigs act on their own since they don't know for sure right now who is guaranteed to be town besides themselves. Their shots won't be wasted by overlap anyway. If we do have a confirmed townie later on then we can discuss the idea of people claiming to him.
Vigilantes are called Vigilantes for a reason.... If they were organized they'd be called a militia. You don't want to invest too much trust in one person or group. We did this in a game last year, might have been Harry Potter mafia. The town won, but it was extremely luck related. We blindly followed a couple of players [might have been Deconduo and Fishball?], but the host and many of the really good vets explained that though it won the game, it was very bad town play. It only takes one mafia infiltration to mess it up, and you [Curu] want to put all of our shooters in one basket?
Amber, this post is ridiculous. Just because the name is Vigilante doesn't mean they work better alone. If a Vigilante can pair up with a DT, he gets exponentially more potent. Teamwork is not detrimental, especially not for the flimsy reason of a role name.
Mafia starts out with less numbers and less abilities than Town but they have the advantage in organization and information. Do you honestly believe just because they are called Vigilantes that they are more effective if they act completely on their own?
My plan did have potential for disaster and Syllogism had a much better alternative, but saying my plan is bad because Vigilantes are better when they're alone is ridiculous.
I'm not saying Vigilantes are better when they're alone. The first sentence was just clever :>
Vigilantes are better when they're not exposed. Anonymity gives them strength, not confirmation. It takes one person to leak information. Whether they're scum or 3rd party they don't want extra KP flying around this game. Not only that we have pro-town players who can be checked as scum, scum that can be checked as pro-town, and 3rd party players that can be checked as pro-town.
On July 19 2011 23:49 syllogism wrote: We don't really have to have our vigs claiming to anyone, especially on day 1, since they've unique names so we can just assign targets to them in public without anyone claiming. They aren't compulsive vigs so there's no rush anyway
I would agree to this idea until we obtain additional information.
On July 21 2011 13:45 Amber[LighT] wrote: Wow this actually turned out better than expected. Another scum bites the dust by Day 2, this might be record-setting.
Can some people bring a little more information about Notasmurf, since he seemed to be the most active in PM land. Specifically: if you were talking to him, now would be the time to speak up!
Was anybody else in contact with the other dead players? It seems like most of the focus is on NAS's activity atm.
After contributing absolutely nothing you are happy to post an overly happy post about how town is doing well. Was it really necessary to post this or are you trying to make it seem like you are happy.
Anyway, you're full of shit so far. Anything to say for yourself because if you don't we may as well just lynch you.
Go for it. I've contributed more than you have. Posting 1 liners after quotes isn't "analysis." It's just context.
Might wanna go back to the drawing board with this one...
On July 21 2011 22:37 supersoft wrote: you contributed more than naz? you contributed 0. how is this possibly more than anything??
On July 21 2011 22:37 TheAwesomeAll wrote: im sorry amber, you havent contributed anything. Except a very detailed analysis of the game's mechanics of course.
Not to defend Mr I have a graph you can't see but anyone else alarmed at how fast this bandwagon is picking up followers - three of them have hardly given any reasons to why they are voting for him bar "I fully agree with Mig".
On July 21 2011 22:37 TheAwesomeAll wrote: im sorry amber, you havent contributed anything. Except a very detailed analysis of the game's mechanics of course.
Lol Trust in Naz that's cute.
ridiculous defense. There is no contribution of you in this thread. I thought maybe you got some interesting PMs but right now i think, besides maybe some posts in the Mafiaquicktopic you got nothing.
On July 21 2011 22:56 Drazerk wrote: Not to defend Mr I have a graph you can't see but anyone else alarmed at how fast this bandwagon is picking up followers - three of them have hardly given any reasons to why they are voting for him bar "I fully agree with Mig".
It was the result of a morning long discussion. Feel free to come on IRC and /join #loonybin
EPT
