On July 19 2011 19:43 syllogism wrote: I think supersoft is looking town based on his recent interactions in this thread and PM land. Palmar's case on Pyo is good and nisani's disappearance after his absurd notion that we should lynch Curu tomorrow if supersoft flips green for starting the wagon, despite in the same post saying he thinks supersoft is extremely scummy, is suspicious. Quite a few people aren't playing in the way I expect them to, but I'm not quite willing to lynch them day 1 based on something I can't even really articulate.
Redff do you think Curu is the best lynch today? Really? All you've done so far is berate Curu for his case on supersoft, which was actually quite good, especially as far as day 1 cases go. You didn't really explain why you thought supersoft looked town to you and then randomly voted for Curu for leading the lynch.
Unvoting supersoft, redff/nisani/pyo all look like decent lynches today
##vote Redff
If any of you vigilante type people are reading this, Syllo just suggested some excellent targets for you! throw CB in there too for good measure.
And I agree, based on supersoft's actions, I actually think we have better lynches today. (hint: Pyo)
On July 19 2011 19:40 Drazerk wrote: Well I gave you a chance Pyo but not responding to PMs when I try and give you a chance isn't good enough.
We actually have great track records for Day 1 lynches recently and abstaining the vote is stupid.
Current FoS - Wiggles ( reasons stated earlier by myself and ghrur where he is basically has suddenly done a 180 and isn't following his scum meta at all but isn't committing to anything, He's had more than enough time so his defence to my claim isn't valid )
And now Pyo - Basically abstaining the vote for no good reason
Will be keeping my vote on wiggles.
Abstain might have been a poor word choice. It's a place-holder vote.
On July 19 2011 18:02 Pyo wrote: Since I'm not really sure who to vote for and I'm not exactly sure when the day is over, I'm going to put a place-holder vote for someone nobody else is likely to vote for (i.e. I'm going to abstain from voting day 1 unless something really obvious comes up).
Also, I'm under no obligation to respond to your pm spam:
Original Message From Drazerk: Hello Pyo, What is your thoughts on Wiggles?
Original Message From Drazerk: Palmar just attacked you, Comment on that?
Opinion on wiggles?
Don't be silent
Original Message From Drazerk: Just commit to someone with an analysis etc
You wanna lynch me? Go ahead. You wanna vigi hit me? Go ahead. When I flip green maybe town will start paying to TAA.
This annoys the hell out of me, enough to vote for him. Either he's a scum with the oldest bluff in the book, or a townie who's really given up and just can't make constructive arguments. Spitefully hoping the town lynches you while playing town is horrible.
Now:
Alright, so you say that you dislike policy posts
I made a post saying that people shouldn't post huge long policy posts stating the premise of the game
and you say that you dislike bandwagoning
I just don't like day 1 bandwagons... has town ever managed to bandwagon scum day 1?
So what exactly does that leave us with? Exactly what would the first few posts in the thread be, if not policy posts? Without these policy posts that you detest so very much, you would have pretty much no opinion on anything. You're advocating a thread where the only discussion revolves around...well, not very much of anything. I guess you'd hunt spammers? Your dream situation is one where
The day 1 lynch is just going to be a completely random crap shoot.
, no one talks about game strategy, and where everyone gets exactly one vote. That is a huge waste of time, and is pretty much the mafia dream.
Abstain might have been a poor word choice. It's a place-holder vote.
Place-holder that has no influence on the vote is pretty close. Exactly what are you waiting for here? There is significant evidence against quite a few people, all of which you deem to be worthless.
Also, I'm under no obligation to respond to your pm spam:
If you were green then replying and defending yourself would be in your best interest, because you would have nothing to hide.
After a good night's sleep I'm not so sure that I want to vote supersoft anymore. I mostly suspected him because he said that he'd been caught up in the PM game while only having a few PMs sent, which I don't consider being busy with PMs. However, after reading the PMs that redFF sent to him, I am inclined to say that redFF is more suspicious than supersoft.
You wanna lynch me? Go ahead. You wanna vigi hit me? Go ahead. When I flip green maybe town will start paying to TAA.
This annoys the hell out of me, enough to vote for him. Either he's a scum with the oldest bluff in the book, or a townie who's really given up and just can't make constructive arguments. Spitefully hoping the town lynches you while playing town is horrible.
I just don't like day 1 bandwagons... has town ever managed to bandwagon scum day 1?
So what exactly does that leave us with? Exactly what would the first few posts in the thread be, if not policy posts? Without these policy posts that you detest so very much, you would have pretty much no opinion on anything. You're advocating a thread where the only discussion revolves around...well, not very much of anything. I guess you'd hunt spammers? Your dream situation is one where
Abstain might have been a poor word choice. It's a place-holder vote.
Place-holder that has no influence on the vote is pretty close. Exactly what are you waiting for here? There is significant evidence against quite a few people, all of which you deem to be worthless.
Also, I'm under no obligation to respond to your pm spam:
If you were green then replying and defending yourself would be in your best interest, because you would have nothing to hide.
##unvote ##vote Pyo
ugh, well I seem to just be digging myself deeper and deeper... I honestly didn't think I was being scummy by saying making policy posts at the start of games was bad. Well whatever, I'm just gonna respond to palmer here too
I've played 2 TL mafia games so far.
XL - iGrok makes one of those ridiculous policy posts... he turns out to be mafia GF. So I'm a little biased against them. XL - two day 1 bandwagons, in neither did mafia vote for the person and in neither case were the bandwagon target mafia SNMMIV - yeah I pressured Draz and it turned out he was town. Random tunneling isn't necessarily the most productive. Lesson learned: random tunneling doesn't really work. Plus with all the chaos of day 1 it's really hard to even interpret alignments from votes.
Also palmer, you have my posts about wiggles in the wrong chronological order and taken out of the context of the thread.
I started the whole thing about wiggles and CB by saying that policy posts are bad (second quote). Then after being attacked for having said that, i responded with your first quote. The third quote where I'm "backing off from accusing wiggles" (note that I never really was accusing him in the first place) came after drazerk posted his attack against on him and after I received the following PM's:
Original Message From Drazerk: Lets face it - Wiggles puts in zero effort when he plays as scum and everyone picks him out instantly ( See RTM / WaW2 )
I reckon he has changed his play style accordingly but I can't analyse till a bit later
Original Message From Mig: Pyo!
Who do you think is suspicious so far? Other than wiggles?
Btw I agree that wiggles is suspicious but for very different reasons than you. Wiggles is right that his posting long pro town thing is a null tell at best. I have played many games where the person to post long pro town things was mafia and also many where they were town. However, posting like this is very unlike wiggles normal play. He is usually much more laid back the first couple of days. So for him to play this way he 95% has some goal he is pushing behind it. And usually it will be the mafia/3rd party who are trying to push their goals this early.
As stated before, I don't really like early day 1 bandwagons, so I didn't really want to start one. Random tunneling I suppose can work (gtrsrs against iGrok in XL sort of comes to mind), but most often it's a total whiff (every game kurumi plays in, the 2 day 1 bandwagons in XL, gtrsrs against everyone in SNMMIV).
Finally, I'll simply add that I also used a place-holder vote day 1 of mafia XL until I was able to make up my mind about who to actually vote for.
As I previously said, I am amazed on how well "newbs" ruled day so far, bringing great evidence on suspects. We must encourage people to DECIDE who they are voting for from those three candidates: Supersoft: -claimed VT (lie) -when suspicion was brought on him claims it was trolling (the topic about how vt damages town was brought up in the meantime) -bandwagoned Coagulation (Kurumi, You've done that too! I know, just wait) -claims that he isn't active in the thread, but is swarming with pms, which was proven TO BE FALSE (another lie) Supersoft is liar and still hasn't redeemed himself. The major things which make him a lynch candidates are lies, because as pointed out (and learnt from CCM) they are terrible for town. Pyo: -thinks noone is scummy (oh how neutral bro) -place-holder vote, because lynch will be bad anyway ("who cares, voting is shit" WRONG IT IS THE BEST TOWN'S POWER) -anti-town agenda (not sure about things, cautious and careful, refuses to contribute to any case besides calling it stupid without evidence) Pyo looks like a guy who either does not give a fuck or does not give a fuck. Yup. He doesn't need to be scum, he might be 3rd party. Either way, he doesn't care how the things end.
I will re-read the thread now and pick CreamyButter (third candidate) posts and the reasoning behind them (the case against him is a lot more complicated) So yeah. I got a bit of time in front of PC (laptop to be exact) , hurray for family and my uncle.. Veterans, You scared bros? Why u so silent? Palmar, King of Kalmars is stylin' on Ya. About Coagulation vote: At first, his list screamed "I try to contribute because Officer You tell me do things I done running!(google GI JOE Porkchop Sandwiches)" but after a longer while it didn't scream scum for me. It COULD be better (like a small description about them, games where they have shown amazing play) but at the moment when it was posted, it was good enough. Not excellent, but good enough. A little insight for our new Mafia players!
He claimed green then claimed that he was just kidding. This implies he is:
a) blue. If he is blue he is actively calling attention to himself, narrowing the field of suspected blues for the scum. This is behaviour that sabotages town and to let him continue to exist threatens further sabotage.
b) black. In this case it's in our interest to catch blacks because they either have KP or their win condition is with scum.
c) red.
d) green. In this case he has actually done a fake lie into a real lie. That's way too much lying and is anti-town behaviour. Therefore he should be lynched.
Ergo, Supersoft has shown himself to be anti-town no matter what actual role he is playing. I don't think that can be said of any other candidate.
I still think scumhunting other likely candidates is a good move for Day 1 but for the reasons I outlined above I am against changing votes away from Supersoft.
On July 19 2011 20:54 snotboogie wrote: a) blue. If he is blue he is actively calling attention to himself, narrowing the field of suspected blues for the scum. This is behaviour that sabotages town and to let him continue to exist threatens further sabotage.
On July 19 2011 20:54 snotboogie wrote: b) black. In this case it's in our interest to catch blacks because they either have KP or their win condition is with scum.
Can you please enlighten me as to where this is stated? From what I see, blacks win condition is from killing each other and/or surviving.
On July 19 2011 20:54 snotboogie wrote: b) black. In this case it's in our interest to catch blacks because they either have KP or their win condition is with scum.
Can you please enlighten me as to where this is stated? From what I see, blacks win condition is from killing each other and/or surviving.
Yeah most of that post by snotboogie was scummy as fuck.
As far I remember we are the bad guys who are town and good guys are mafia, right? Because we're Criminals and Mafia are the Guards? It could make sense that Batman wins with Guards or something. But that's a bit useless theorycrafting. Back to rereading thread, in the meanwhile: People who have under/exactly 5 posts (feel free to make this more accurate) gtrsrs - claimed VT Zona - pretty big posts Kenpachi - claimed VT RebirthOfLegend - started case on Coagulation hiro protagonist - ??? Coagulation - made vet list
On July 19 2011 20:54 snotboogie wrote: b) black. In this case it's in our interest to catch blacks because they either have KP or their win condition is with scum.
Can you please enlighten me as to where this is stated? From what I see, blacks win condition is from killing each other and/or surviving.
Batman, Joker and Ra'as have KP which potentially hits townies.
On July 19 2011 20:54 snotboogie wrote: a) blue. If he is blue he is actively calling attention to himself, narrowing the field of suspected blues for the scum. This is behaviour that sabotages town and to let him continue to exist threatens further sabotage.
This part is complete and utter bullshit.
Why? If you were blue, why would you claim green and then claim you're not green? If you're not Mafia, then Mafia knows you're not green and you're not red. Which means you're either blue or black which is doing deductive work for Mafia. Explain what is wrong with my reasoning.
On July 19 2011 20:54 snotboogie wrote: b) black. In this case it's in our interest to catch blacks because they either have KP or their win condition is with scum.
Can you please enlighten me as to where this is stated? From what I see, blacks win condition is from killing each other and/or surviving.
Batman, Joker and Ra'as have KP which potentially hits townies.
Insane Inmates win with scum.
Insane inmates are traitors, not 3rd party. Thats the confusion here.
On July 19 2011 20:54 snotboogie wrote: a) blue. If he is blue he is actively calling attention to himself, narrowing the field of suspected blues for the scum. This is behaviour that sabotages town and to let him continue to exist threatens further sabotage.
This part is complete and utter bullshit.
Why? If you were blue, why would you claim green and then claim you're not green? If you're not Mafia, then Mafia knows you're not green and you're not red. Which means you're either blue or black which is doing deductive work for Mafia. Explain what is wrong with my reasoning.
Because this argument is pure WIFOM. You are saying if he's blue mafia knows he's lying about claiming green. Mafia don't have perfect information, they don't know if he's blue or not and therefore it doesn't help them at all.
EPT
