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On July 19 2011 17:29 ketomai wrote:
And again, this all comes together if you read his PM to supersoft. That's basically what set off my scum radar.
thank you.
I also want to add, that mafia knows who will flip green. It's obvious, that some of them try to defend me, to clear themselves.
+ it's easy to gain someones trust if you tell him, that you believe him, while he is heavily accused.
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Some questions remain:
Ketomai: I still want to know which mafia game of me did you read? I want more details please convince me.
prplhz: Do you have had PM contact with redFF about the Lucidity case?
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Supersoft how do you feel about redFF and Pyo?
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FUCK edited again, replaced with original post (continuous habit to fix my spelling):
Isn't at this point just obvious that we have to vote Supersoft because of all defenders and offenders have given so much input into his case? Maybe I'm saying something unheard of here!
I'm seeing some votes pop up about redFF and Pyo but even if there would be a stronger case to specifically vote those guys (which I don't think there is, yet) Supersoft has been discussed for so long by so many people that even if he flips green it is going to tell us so much about everyone in the thread. Just knowing what Supersoft is, be it scum or town, is going to be incredibly informative at this point. So many people have built up relationships and input to the case so that knowing what Supersoft actually is seems really important to our day 2 and onwards play.
At that point we can always still look into (and take out) the other guys that are defending him like redFF and Pyo. The point is that is Supersoft turns green that clearly removes a lot of suspicion from those guys.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are wasting our time discussing evidence on Supersoft. He seems to be scum, but even if he is not it is probably not a wasted vote because the info of him flipping green going to be incredibly helpful for the next days.
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This no editing thing is hard guys I apologize once again and will keep trying. Spotted it before anyone else posted this time so definitely improving.
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Pyo
Time to push some other targets than supersoft. Supersoft lied, played badly, posted anti-town shit and basically has been a big sack of uselessness, but it's in no one's favour to silently lynch a bro like that.
Here's my case against the fiend Pyo.
There are several reasons he should be the one hanging tonight. Here is what Pyo initially did at the start of the game.
Wiggles posted his controversial big post in the beginning of the game, doing his best to channel GMarshal and setting guidelines for town. I actually think the case against Wiggles is a pretty good one, but let's look at how pyo responds.
On July 18 2011 17:52 Pyo wrote:
Do you really think that everyone is going to read every single post in detail - especially super long posts - in a 40-person game where half of the players have been described as "newbs" ? All people are going to do is skim a post get a feel for whether it is pro-town or not. And as has been declared by some people, they think you're pro-town. I, however, disagree as mafia often make those long policy like guidance posts at the start of games.
On July 18 2011 13:14 Pyo wrote:
I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin'
Look at that, that's pro-town! He's throwing around suspicion. It may not be the best founded suspicion (it's the content and follow-up of wiggles's post that's damning, not the fact that he posted it). But wait a minute... Pyo does not see fit to follow this up with a vote.
I guess we can let that slide, until we read another post of his:
On July 18 2011 19:52 Pyo wrote:
Also I wasn't explicitly accusing wiggles or creamybutter of being scum. I was simply saying that people shouldn't be concluding pro-townness from those long policy posts.
Why the hell wouldn't you want them to shiver a bit? Why don't you want to see how people react under pressure? You had the case and you had the means to push it a bit, why not do it? I'm sure you noticed that Supersoft's case started out pretty weak, but as soon as he started defending himself, he cracked and lied, which strengthened the case. What you did with this post is anti-town.
Now I'm going to go back for another game, this post is from SNMMIV where pyo was vanilla town.
On June 18 2011 23:24 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 23:00 Xedat wrote:
Yeah, I am not actually suspecting you, just tried to get someone talking. We will see if someone slips something stupid, otherwise it will be a random lynch tomorrow I think. You might not be, but I most certainly am. What is particularly suspicious about Drazek is how much his posting behavior has changed between last game and this one. Last game Drazek said almost nothing all game long. However, he's been perhaps the biggest talker this game. I suppose one could attribute this to being "more comfortable" with the smaller setting, but it's not like he increased his posted more at the end of the last game. This strikes me as very suspicious. ##Vote: Drazek
Did you know that this was actually the FIRST vote cast in that game? Pyo seems to have no problem with pressuring people and leading lynches when he's town.
But this game he's more concerned with making sure everyone is best friends and no one is being mean.
On July 18 2011 21:12 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 20:56 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
Ok this is what happens:
Mig asks for a list, knowing that giving lists is a way for mafia to blend in and that lists are generally a scum tell.
Coag replies
Coag gets fossed and bandwagoned
mig dissapears...
People that are accusing Coag are accusing the wrong guy i think. dude why are you randomly fosing everyone... mig had a post 3 hours ago, how is that disappearing?
On July 18 2011 21:22 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 21:12 Palmar wrote:On July 18 2011 19:52 Pyo wrote:
Also I wasn't explicitly accusing wiggles or creamybutter of being scum. I was simply saying that people shouldn't be concluding pro-townness from those long policy posts.
Nice, making friends. Who are you accusing? no one, yet. the game is less than 24 hours in on day 1. i simply would like people to keep their posts simple and to the point. the pulitzer committee doesn't read these forums.
That didn't stop you last game, did it?
On July 19 2011 18:02 Pyo wrote:
##vote: Liquid`Nazgul
That's right, that dark blue banner doesn't scare me...
In all seriousness, I'm not really convinced about anyone's scumminess. I suppose that supersoft is kind of suspicious, but the read I got is someone who just didn't want to get accused of lurking and not necessarily scum. Also I'm a little suspicious of early bandwagons - especially given that it's the second day 1 bandwagon (and I feel a little more likely to be scum driven than the first one on Coagulation).
Since I'm not really sure who to vote for and I'm not exactly sure when the day is over, I'm going to put a place-holder vote for someone nobody else is likely to vote for (i.e. I'm going to abstain from voting day 1 unless something really obvious comes up).
And the grand finale, this bloody thing is so fucking stupid, I just have no words. Anyone should be able to see why this post is probably the worst way to play town during day 1. The only people who benefit from playing like this are mafia.
Abstaining from voting? Are you fucking kidding me?
Pyo is scum
##Vote Pyo
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On July 19 2011 18:49 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
Supersoft how do you feel about redFF and Pyo?
Okay I repeat it in the thread, you also can read my thoughts in the chat between me an Kavdragon, we had about 12 hours ago.
redFF PMed me and told me, that he thinks I am innocent. At the same time he told me that Lucidity is suspicious.
a few minutes after that, prplhz posted and big post where he accused Lucidity.
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I think that this connection between these two is suspicous. Now I want to know whether they had contact and if so, i want to read the PMs.
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On July 19 2011 18:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are wasting our time discussing evidence on Supersoft. He seems to be scum, but even if he is not it is probably not a wasted vote because the info of him flipping green going to be incredibly helpful for the next days.
I disagree with you. I will flip green and you won't have any information. Because Curu pushed my case so hard, it was easy for mafia to either just hop on the bandwagon or just act indifferent.
On July 19 2011 18:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
At that point we can always still look into (and take out) the other guys that are defending him like redFF and Pyo. The point is that is Supersoft turns green that clearly removes a lot of suspicion from those guys.
and this is complete nonsense :D sorry, but mafia knows that I'll flip green. They already know that, because I am not in their team. So why should any suspicion removed from them if I flip green.
+ They didn't really defend me. redFF wrote some useless one-liners and attacked curu. That was no real defense.
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On July 19 2011 18:42 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
i request a vigi hit on Pyo
You know, I just don't get. I made a post saying that people shouldn't post huge long policy posts stating the premise of the game and somehow and somehow TAA thinks that scum and has been tunneling me the whole time. You wanna lynch me? Go ahead. You wanna vigi hit me? Go ahead. When I flip green maybe town will start paying to TAA. By the way before he started randomly tunneling me he sent me this message (for the sake of full disclosure):
Original Message From TheAwesomeAll: dude i didnt accuse you, your case was bad. // Just sayin //
On July 19 2011 18:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
At that point we can always still look into (and take out) the other guys that are defending him like redFF and Pyo. The point is that is Supersoft turns green that clearly removes a lot of suspicion from those guys.
I'm not defending supersoft. I just don't like day 1 bandwagons... has town ever managed to bandwagon scum day 1? Also scum don't deflect bandwagons against their own by directly defending, they do it by deflecting attention away from others. Sort of like posts like this one. It's a totally irrelevant post that does nothing but distract town discussion.
Regardless, I don't know who to vote for. The day 1 lynch is just going to be a completely random crap shoot.
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On July 19 2011 19:04 supersoft wrote:
and this is complete nonsense :D sorry, but mafia knows that I'll flip green. They already know that, because I am not in their team. So why should any suspicion removed from them if I flip green.
+ They didn't really defend me. redFF wrote some useless one-liners and attacked curu. That was no real defense.
Sorry was a noob assumption actually. Mafia could easily defend you just because you are green, my bad on that. If you flip red though then that still tells us a lot about many others.
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On July 19 2011 18:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
FUCK edited again, replaced with original post (continuous habit to fix my spelling):
Isn't at this point just obvious that we have to vote Supersoft because of all defenders and offenders have given so much input into his case? Maybe I'm saying something unheard of here!
I'm seeing some votes pop up about redFF and Pyo but even if there would be a stronger case to specifically vote those guys (which I don't think there is, yet) Supersoft has been discussed for so long by so many people that even if he flips green it is going to tell us so much about everyone in the thread. Just knowing what Supersoft is, be it scum or town, is going to be incredibly informative at this point. So many people have built up relationships and input to the case so that knowing what Supersoft actually is seems really important to our day 2 and onwards play.
At that point we can always still look into (and take out) the other guys that are defending him like redFF and Pyo. The point is that is Supersoft turns green that clearly removes a lot of suspicion from those guys.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are wasting our time discussing evidence on Supersoft. He seems to be scum, but even if he is not it is probably not a wasted vote because the info of him flipping green going to be incredibly helpful for the next days.
No this is wrong. Like I've said before the original premise for him being lynched was that he was at the time the best candidate. However, if you go through all of "discussions" of why, it's just something along the lines of "Oh there's no one better, look he lied". However, you can't find any bad motivations to lie that way nor can you completely disprove his defense. Normally, lynching someone who has been discussed to death is a good idea, however, in this case, on day 1, it won't help much at all.
MESSAGE TO TOWN:
We need to choose the most likely candidate and all vote for that. Chaos is detrimental to the town (I sound like a broken record). Since new candidates have just appeared, it would be the ideal time for mafia to add even more confusion by introducing more random evidence. We can't let them have that chance. Having a split vote only lets the mafia hide and make weak defenses. On the other hand, if we all choose the most likely mafia, and we are correct, they will have a much harder time defending a different vote and we can methodically break down each of the new suspicious people that pop up.
In my opinion, redFF is easily the most suspicious candidate. As I've said before, his actions can only be explained by completely stupidity or mafia motives. The other two candidates that are currently being discussed, are typical accusations. However, we just got definite PM proof that something is not right about redFF. There can be no debate about the meaning or lack thereof in his questionable actions.
supersoft: I told you I have never played a game with you but it doesn't stop me from reading your past games if I have any suspicions. My post history contains my mafia games as well so it'd be really easy to find out my aka (which you have never played with). Since you keep asking I'll just tell you that my former username was nevake.
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in my last game i was town we got scum day 1 (RTM)
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On July 19 2011 19:13 Pyo wrote:I'm not defending supersoft. I just don't like day 1 bandwagons... has town ever managed to bandwagon scum day 1? Also scum don't deflect bandwagons against their own by directly defending, they do it by deflecting attention away from others. Sort of like posts like this one. It's a totally irrelevant post that does nothing but distract town discussion.
Recent examples:
RTM: 2 out of 3 lynch candidates day 1 were scum
Merc Mini: 3/4 people who get voted for were scum
WaW: 3rd party lynched day 1
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On July 19 2011 19:16 ketomai wrote:
We need to choose the most likely candidate and all vote for that. Chaos is detrimental to the town (I sound like a broken record). Since new candidates have just appeared, it would be the ideal time for mafia to add even more confusion by introducing more random evidence. We can't let them have that chance. Having a split vote only lets the mafia hide and make weak defenses. On the other hand, if we all choose the most likely mafia, and we are correct, they will have a much harder time defending a different vote and we can methodically break down each of the new suspicious people that pop up.
Hi.
Unless you have something useful to say, just go back to lurking until someone vigis you in the face.
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On July 19 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 19:16 ketomai wrote:
We need to choose the most likely candidate and all vote for that. Chaos is detrimental to the town (I sound like a broken record). Since new candidates have just appeared, it would be the ideal time for mafia to add even more confusion by introducing more random evidence. We can't let them have that chance. Having a split vote only lets the mafia hide and make weak defenses. On the other hand, if we all choose the most likely mafia, and we are correct, they will have a much harder time defending a different vote and we can methodically break down each of the new suspicious people that pop up.
Hi. Unless you have something useful to say, just go back to lurking until someone vigis you in the face.
Hey, I'm asking for a constructive town.
You are furthering disorganization by randomly calling for a vigi to hit someone for which you have no evidence against.
I was not specifically targeting you as mafia, but rather that your actions are what the mafia eventually want. Therefore, I'm calling for a consolidation of votes, it is not a personal attack on you or the guy who vote Nazgul.
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On July 19 2011 19:23 ketomai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:On July 19 2011 19:16 ketomai wrote:
We need to choose the most likely candidate and all vote for that. Chaos is detrimental to the town (I sound like a broken record). Since new candidates have just appeared, it would be the ideal time for mafia to add even more confusion by introducing more random evidence. We can't let them have that chance. Having a split vote only lets the mafia hide and make weak defenses. On the other hand, if we all choose the most likely mafia, and we are correct, they will have a much harder time defending a different vote and we can methodically break down each of the new suspicious people that pop up.
Hi. Unless you have something useful to say, just go back to lurking until someone vigis you in the face. Hey, I'm asking for a constructive town. You are furthering disorganization by randomly calling for a vigi to hit someone for which you have no evidence against. I was not specifically targeting you as mafia, but rather that your actions are what the mafia eventually want. Therefore, I'm calling for a consolidation of votes, it is not a personal attack on you or the guy who vote Nazgul.
You're wrong.
A quiet lynch with massive support allows mafia to just plant themselves on both sides of the lynch and derp herp their way to day 2. Having more than 1 lynch candidate where we actually ahve to fight for getting the lynch done is pro town. Read RTM if you don't believe me.
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On July 19 2011 19:26 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 19:23 ketomai wrote:On July 19 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:On July 19 2011 19:16 ketomai wrote:
We need to choose the most likely candidate and all vote for that. Chaos is detrimental to the town (I sound like a broken record). Since new candidates have just appeared, it would be the ideal time for mafia to add even more confusion by introducing more random evidence. We can't let them have that chance. Having a split vote only lets the mafia hide and make weak defenses. On the other hand, if we all choose the most likely mafia, and we are correct, they will have a much harder time defending a different vote and we can methodically break down each of the new suspicious people that pop up.
Hi. Unless you have something useful to say, just go back to lurking until someone vigis you in the face. Hey, I'm asking for a constructive town. You are furthering disorganization by randomly calling for a vigi to hit someone for which you have no evidence against. I was not specifically targeting you as mafia, but rather that your actions are what the mafia eventually want. Therefore, I'm calling for a consolidation of votes, it is not a personal attack on you or the guy who vote Nazgul. You're wrong. A quiet lynch with massive support allows mafia to just plant themselves on both sides of the lynch and derp herp their way to day 2. Having more than 1 lynch candidate where we actually ahve to fight for getting the lynch done is pro town. Read RTM if you don't believe me.
I guess my statement was a little specific to this case, rather than in general. However, this is what I think: there's an obvious obvious mafia here (or possibly two looking at your suspect), why not get surefire information/likely mafia from lynches? If we lynch redFF we find out about pylh, the guy he's interacted with and supersoft, the original lynch candidate he's in contact with as well as the person who was pm'ing supersoft.
If we split and end up following one of these upshoot leads that we have instead of the surefire information / likely mafia lynch, then we waste a day and the mafia can hide themselves in the 5 different candidates we are trying to lynch and adjust 1 or 2 people whenever to avoid lynching mafia. The more arguments there are the easier it is to twist your way out of an unfavorable vote. In this situation where there's clearly a favorable vote for town, we shouldn't allow the mafia the ability to do that.
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Let's take a previous scenario in this game and adjust it to this one:
For example, in this game previously, regarding supersoft. What if he was clearly mafia? The massive bandwagon following would prevent any sane mafia from defending him without looking stupid. However, what if there was more evidence for RoL or Coag that actually mattered? Then it would be easy to twist a vote or two away from supersoft, the actual mafia, to the other "ok" candidates to save the mafia.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Well I gave you a chance Pyo but not responding to PMs when I try and give you a chance isn't good enough.
We actually have great track records for Day 1 lynches recently and abstaining the vote is stupid.
Current FoS - Wiggles ( reasons stated earlier by myself and ghrur where he is basically has suddenly done a 180 and isn't following his scum meta at all but isn't committing to anything, He's had more than enough time so his defence to my claim isn't valid )
And now Pyo - Basically abstaining the vote for no good reason
Will be keeping my vote on wiggles.
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On July 19 2011 19:18 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 19:13 Pyo wrote:I'm not defending supersoft. I just don't like day 1 bandwagons... has town ever managed to bandwagon scum day 1? Also scum don't deflect bandwagons against their own by directly defending, they do it by deflecting attention away from others. Sort of like posts like this one. It's a totally irrelevant post that does nothing but distract town discussion. Recent examples: RTM: 2 out of 3 lynch candidates day 1 were scum Merc Mini: 3/4 people who get voted for were scum WaW: 3rd party lynched day 1
All of those are totally different types of games. RTM didn't require everyone to vote and only required a minimum consensus to have a lynch. Merc mini and WaW are theme games. As you've pointed out, it is really easy for mafia to simply not vote for the bandwagon candidate if enough town jump on board (mafia XL comes to mind).
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I think supersoft is looking town based on his recent interactions in this thread and PM land. Palmar's case on Pyo is good and nisani's disappearance after his absurd notion that we should lynch Curu tomorrow if supersoft flips green for starting the wagon, despite in the same post saying he thinks supersoft is extremely scummy, is suspicious. Quite a few people aren't playing in the way I expect them to, but I'm not quite willing to lynch them day 1 based on something I can't even really articulate.
Redff do you think Curu is the best lynch today? Really? All you've done so far is berate Curu for his case on supersoft, which was actually quite good, especially as far as day 1 cases go. You didn't really explain why you thought supersoft looked town to you and then randomly voted for Curu for leading the lynch.
Unvoting supersoft, redff/nisani/pyo all look like decent lynches today
##vote Redff
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EPT
