EPTcan you stop with the one liners please?
BC's Arkham Asylum - Page 33
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Sevryn
698 Posts
can you stop with the one liners please? | ||
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Eternalmisfit
United States643 Posts
(a) Clues can be cryptic in which case a small group interpreting it might possible provide false evidence to support a lynch. (b) If scum manages to have convincing people inside the clue analysis group, it can pretty much make most clue analysis useless. (c) A small group of people will have inherent biases as to who they think are scum from reading the thread and thus might manifest that bias into interpretation of a clue. I agree on the point that there clues should only supplement other evidence and should not form the sole basis of lynch (though exceptions can occur). I also agree that people bouncing ideas off each other is good for cracking the clues. However, I am against an official clue analysis team until we have a set of confirmed townies (even in that case I would prefer not have an 'official' team) | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On July 19 2011 10:38 Eternalmisfit wrote: I am of the opinion that everyone should be analyzing the clues. I am hesitant in letting a small group of people analyze clues and figure out their interpretation of the clues for multiple reasons: (a) Clues can be cryptic in which case a small group interpreting it might possible provide false evidence to support a lynch. (b) If scum manages to have convincing people inside the clue analysis group, it can pretty much make most clue analysis useless. (c) A small group of people will have inherent biases as to who they think are scum from reading the thread and thus might manifest that bias into interpretation of a clue. I agree on the point that there clues should only supplement other evidence and should not form the sole basis of lynch (though exceptions can occur). I also agree that people bouncing ideas off each other is good for cracking the clues. However, I am against an official clue analysis team until we have a set of confirmed townies (even in that case I would prefer not have an 'official' team) THIS Unless you're talking about later in the game when we have confirmed townies to task with it, anyone we put on the 'committee' could be scum...which could be detrimental given the 'telling' nature of clues. | ||
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notasmurf
United States15 Posts
On July 18 2011 23:11 Palmar wrote: For those of you who can't put together 1 and 1, Supersoft finds it so important to prove that he's working, that he's willing to lie about it. I don't like people who lie. Me neither. LAL PL. ##Vote: Supersoft I'd like to remind town to please Do not lie. This means that even if you think you can benefit from lying, or help the town by lying, DO NOT LIE. No exceptions. Lying only hurts the town and provides cover for the mafia. | ||
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
On July 19 2011 03:46 redFF wrote: Curu, since your vote is on Supersoft, why are you pm'ing someone you think is mafia? Also why vote Ketomai supersoft? Just an OMGUS? If you had read the thread, you'd know that they were in contact through PM's before Curu came to the belief that Supersoft is scummy. This along with your short posts, while accusing others of scummy behaviour due to short posts, makes me quite suspicious of you. You are throwing suspicion around while not having good reasons to back it up. Furthermore your intensely zealous defense of Supersoft is troubling since you don't address the lies and scummy behaviour, but you make up excuses as to how Supersoft could be a Townie. Regarding Supersoft, I think he's showing too much dodgy behaviour to ignore. He claims he's active in PMs however: he claims Curu is a PM buddy while apparently only a few PMs were exchanged, an claims Mig while the whole conversation is about Mig doubting Supersoft. Furthermore the lying about his VT claim ("oh I was just kidding" = DODGY) and his general defensiveness just casts more doubt upon him. ##Vote Supersoft | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
I see you've all been discussing SS quite a lot. Allow me to introduce another candidate for the lynch. 2 candidates are better than one, and it'd be even better if we could force the mafia to choose.  Without further ado, here I go. VOTE WIGGLES Drazerk was the first one to nominate this candidate. His analysis is here. + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 21:13 Drazerk wrote: Time to actually go to work I guess. Let's start with our always scum fellow Mr. Wiggles shall we? Now we could say wiggles has a track record of being scum but the problem is his scum play has been pretty bland, In fact in RTM / WaW2 we was able to pick him out as scum just because of how little effort he puts in when being scum. Now when I read the thread this morning I was pretty much blown away by how much effort he was putting in, Its almost as if he did a 180 and is trying his best to not follow his scum meta by promoting a pro town atmosphere. + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ok, so let's get this started! First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines. A pro-town atmosphere This normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things:
Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important. We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum. Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia. Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk. Clues There's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum. Third Parties Looking at the third parties, here's what we want: -We want Joker to die. -We want Batman to kill Joker. -This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition. This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game. If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game? If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game? Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling. You will see a post like that at the start of every game, In fact it's pretty much one of the easiest ways to gain townie points as the post is pretty much common sense followed with some "weak" policies. Notice how wiggles keeps mentioning the third parties? + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 10:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Mhmm, if we catch them, we should lynch them. However, how can we catch them? The only ways I can see, are through just behavioural analysis, and also clue analysis. That's why I say, that if someone is acting like an SK, we might as well lynch them. However, SKs normally act like lurkers, or are scummy, from my experience. So, that means the batman should be shooting into lurkers and scummy people. On the flip-side though, Ra'al is going to be shooting into pro-town players, as Batman wants to try to look like a green, most likely. The priority is: joker>batman>ra'al Because killing up the chain, removes the players below. So, I guess you're right, that we should always kill third-parties, to remove their KP. However, the priority should be on the joker, as he will most likely appear scummiest, and also his death removes all third parties. The constant talk of game mechanics makes it seem like he is pro town when he is pretty much posting fluff at this point he just seems to want to enter lylo later when he has established himself as a town player. Shall we go into his other posts about game mechanics? + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 11:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Clue analysis can be strong, and also, newer players are sometimes easily swayed by it, because it seems like an "objective" form of scum-hunting. I'm saying, before pointing out any clues, look at the person who was killed, and the posting history of the player you think the clue is pointing to. For example, if they killed a mafia, and look super pro-town, what would be the possible benefits of pointing it out? However, if someone killed town, and look scummy, then make an actual analysis and then attach the perceived clue to it. No one should be lynched only on clues, and clues shouldn't just be looked at in a vacuum. + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 11:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Yeah, it's a minimum, I just used the word limit for some reason =/ If you are being active and playing the game, you shouldn't really have any problem making the 5 post minimum. For example, you already made 2 decent posts, and still have almost 70 hours to make the other three to avoid mod-kill. Also, filler should mostly be avoided if possible, as there are always other things to post besides useless stuff. For example, you can comment on other people's analysis, on the voting patterns or bandwagons that are going to appear, on how people are acting or trying to manipulate town, etc. There's lots to talk about. :p + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 11:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Agreed. Together the third party hold the same amount of KP as the entire mafia, and based on probability, are more like to kill town than mafia too. + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 11:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Also, to add on to advice for DTs, especially as there are a lot of newer players present, always try to form a case around a player based on analysis if you get a guilty check. Do not just claim. Claiming early is never a good thing, as a 1-1 trade with mafia benefits them more than town. + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2011 11:57 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Oops, I might have screwed up the logic, haha. Been playing scum for too long. O.o Green for mafia is an awesome trade, as we outnumber the mafia. 1-1 with a DT isn't great early on, especially depending on who the scum is. For example, if you checked random lurker A and they returned red, try to get them shot or lynched, don't claim. Trading a DT for a red lurker isn't a very good trade, when we can get additional use out of the DT. Use your discretion, but I think making a push for a lynch based on analysis should be the first step taken, before any kind of claim. So essentially most of his posts are either about, The third parties or how to deal with clues. He has actually done little scum hunting which is a typical trait of his scum play. In my opinion Wiggles is trying very hard to not look like his regular scum meta by "Appearing" to put in effort but with the little scum hunting / FoSing from him he seems to have just concentrated on the mechanics side of the game (Basically fluff) and promote his "Town atmosphere" the best way he can. FoS on Wiggles ##Vote: Mr. Wiggles Now, while I have read it, I came to the conclusion of my own accord. I will most likely bring up similar points, but I shall try to add new material as well. First off, if you notice, Wiggles has not given up ANY information. His posts consist of general advice, "null tell" posts, defenses, and future promises. They all serve a purpose, if he were mafia. General advice makes him look town. Null tell is an easy way to write something off while seeming logical and townie. Defenses = I DON'T WANT TO GET LYNCHED. Future promises mean nothing except that he gets to hide his current information. What's lacking is a stance, a thought, a suspicion, anything concrete to show he's actually scum hunting. Mafia moves right here, gentlemen. Or, you know, SK moves. Now, if you were to look through wiggle's posts, you'll notice that in his very first discussion of mechanics/generalities, he goes in depth into third party thinking. He also seems to be promoting the bats. Notice: + Show Spoiler + So, that means the batman should be shooting into lurkers and scummy people. On the flip-side though, Ra'al is going to be shooting into pro-town players, as Batman wants to try to look like a green, most likely. The priority is: joker>batman>ra'al Because killing up the chain, removes the players below. So, I guess you're right, that we should always kill third-parties, to remove their KP. However, the priority should be on the joker, as he will most likely appear scummiest, and also his death removes all third parties. "So, I guess you're right" seems like a begrudging answer. He didn't want to admit it. "batman shooting into lurkers and scummy people" seems to be promoting the bats. Notice also how he's analyzed the likely behavior of theese characters already. This indicates a lot of thinking about these roles. This makes me inclined to believe he's Bats, or at least an SK. + Show Spoiler + based on probability, are more like to kill town than mafia too. My god. He's even thought about third party probabilities. I'm wondering if he means cost/benefit probabilities or just hey, 3/4th = town and less than 1/4th = mafia. :/ If only he specified. but then, that'd be too much info wouldn't it? Now, around 7/18 13:14 TL time, something interesting happens. Pyo softly pressures Wiggles. Wiggle's response? A paragraph, providing meta-game proof that his actions are a "null-tell." See here. + Show Spoiler + Meh, it's a null-tell again. Examples, GM in Real-Time Mafia, Kavdragon in Pick Your Power Insane. Both making long posts trying to direct town at the beginning, both town. Also, if you think my post is spam, please point out how. If you read it, I specifically say I'm not going to write a general how to play town guide, just give a little bit of general advice against what's made town lose in about three of the last four games I've played, and then talked about how to use clues properly and that killing Joker is a high priority for town. It's not even that massive either, haha. The problem here is that there was in no way ANY threat towards him. I would shrug it off. Why does it matter? I see this as over-defensive. An act of Mafia/SK. I called Curu out on something similar, and I'm calling Wiggles out on this now. Pyo continues accusing, but never voting, to put on pressure. Wiggles starts getting angsty, defensive, and even a bit upset I dare say. Notice the ad-homs coming out. + Show Spoiler + Are you sure about that? I'm starting to question if you read posts or just skim through them. There's no reason to do that at all. Name calling creates chaos and strife. We don't need that sort of atmosphere. I prefer logical to the emotional. I guess SKs/Mafia prefer different. That quote happened around 7/18 15:45. Wiggles doesn't post again until 7/19 2:16. Looking at the big picture of the day, Wiggles has done absolutely nothing. Generic advice and defense. Great. How useful. But he seems like town! No, no he doesn't. By the time Wiggles comes back, discussion has already taken place on new lynch candidates. New suspects. New post analyses to be done. Does Wiggles do any of that? No! He doesn't scum hunt! He jumps STRAIGHT to defending himself from Drazerk's accusation. Let's take a look. + Show Spoiler + I'm gonna address the case against me pretty quickly, but basically I'm being accused of talking about game mechanics for the first two hours of the game, and not scumhunting. (Game started 10KST, last quoted post at 11:57KST). This accusation is true, but shouldn't mark me as scummy, given that it's pretty hard to scum hunt in the first two hours of the game, as most people have yet to post, or have very few posts. Mechanics are just a starting point to get people talking at the beginning of the game, as there is very little else to talk about. Scumhunting begins from there. Notice, he says it's only 2 hours due to the last quoted post. Hahaha, he doesn't even try to give correct info. He had, in actuallity, 5 hours and 45 minutes worth of material to try and scum hunt off of, and THEN another 16 hours and 16 minutes of information to add in something with his defense. What does he do? He says he only had 2 hours. He LIED to strengthen his defense. Scum move, yes? The rest of his post talks about how the game started. Yeah, we all read that. That's not new information. Where's the scum hunting wiggles? Palmar calls him out on this. Palmar even stated there was no threat, and Wiggles didn't even need to defend. Oh, but defend he did. Just like earlier, with Pyo, he jumps on the defense and never attacks. He hints at attacks, like at Palmar (saying Palmar bandwagons) and SS (agreeing with Curu that SS lied), but he gives no analysis and he does not VOTE. HE'S NOT VOTING! He says Palmar is contradictory, and SS seems really suspicious and contradicted himself, yet he votes for neither. WHY? Because he doesn't want to commit to anything. No votes, no trails. Just soft hints. He's afraid to be wrong, to stick his head out, to provide information. Now, here's Wiggle's latest post. + Show Spoiler + I can do clue analysis if you want. The only problem with your plan though, is that the clues only point to specific mafia, not all of them, so there won't always be clue analysis available for each lynch. A lack of clue analysis is not absolving. Look. Once again he wants to do something without doing anything. Clue analysis doesn't need to point to anyone. It'll be vague. It'll be part of a team. You'll hide your opinion. It's IN THE FUTURE. Once again, this is not scum hunting. This is not taking a stance. This is being as unhelpful and uninformative as possible. Scum/SK play. So, after Wiggles stated that "there's a lot to talk about," that "he's re-reading the thread and taking notes on players," and that "we should keep a pro-town atmosphere," he has done none of those things. What a contradiction. I guess he's right that "scumhunting doesn't magically appear," especially not from scum. Join me, and vote Wiggles. Let's break up the bandwagons. Let's force him to take a stance. Let's force Mafia's hand and get them out amongst the townies. Most of all, let's lynch this killer. ##Vote Mr.Wiggles | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
So let me get this straight. *rereading* | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On July 19 2011 12:45 BrownBear wrote: BC, rolelist pls? Psssh... What fun is that? Much better to write out your own lists! | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + M.O.: 23:48:16 hi M.O.: 23:48:25 super here :-) Rigel Ifland: 23:48:31 He. Rigel Ifland: 23:48:36 *hey Rigel Ifland: 23:48:41 Ok, so you didn't talk to anyone else. Rigel Ifland: 23:48:43 LOL. M.O.: 23:48:48 what do you want to know :-) Rigel Ifland: 23:48:55 So we both know that your VT claim wasn't BS. M.O.: 23:48:57 i talked to wait M.O.: 23:49:14 before i "claimed" I didn't talk to anyone M.O.: 23:49:33 yes I know -,- M.O.: 23:49:46 after that, mig PMed me M.O.: 23:49:53 i posted the dialogue in the thread M.O.: 23:50:03 after that curu PMed me M.O.: 23:50:11 i also posted this in the thread Rigel Ifland: 23:50:21 right. M.O.: 23:50:29 and recently, redFF PMed me M.O.: 23:50:49 i didn't revealed that yet. I will if you actually lynch me. M.O.: 23:51:04 Because I think you need all the information Rigel Ifland: 23:51:23 I'm more inclined to believe that you are actually a townie, but my main point was just disproven by non other than myself. M.O.: 23:51:25 *town needs the information Rigel Ifland: 23:51:30 Damn and Damn again. M.O.: 23:51:36 mh? Rigel Ifland: 23:51:54 I just used fail logic to deduce that you are a townie. Rigel Ifland: 23:52:04 And then discovered my fail. M.O.: 23:52:15 okay... that's bad for me i guess :D Rigel Ifland: 23:52:27 let's just say that it involved me assuming people didn't read the OP. Rigel Ifland: 23:52:38 Which is a bad idea. Still, I think you are a townie. M.O.: 23:52:55 you are a townie, too? Rigel Ifland: 23:53:04 Can't say, but that's what I assume everyone is. M.O.: 23:53:12 you didn't read the OP before reading my post didn't you Rigel Ifland: 23:53:25 <_< Rigel Ifland: 23:53:26 >_> M.O.: 23:53:27 :D Rigel Ifland: 23:53:35 Yeah, I feel like an idiot. Rigel Ifland: 23:53:46 I was all like...WTF! People are voting for him! M.O.: 23:54:00 haha :D Rigel Ifland: 23:54:04 I had a PLAN, man. It was beautiful. Rigel Ifland: 23:54:16 And....completely useless now. M.O.: 23:54:23 hmm Rigel Ifland: 23:54:33 But still, I don't think that mafia would have done what you did, so I'm still leaning townie. M.O.: 23:55:11 yes I know... M.O.: 23:55:17 but curu tunnels me so hard M.O.: 23:55:24 and repeats his accuses over and over M.O.: 23:55:42 so the newbs think he got something Rigel Ifland: 23:55:44 Hmm. M.O.: 23:55:49 I actually think he's town, too Rigel Ifland: 23:56:11 He said that you are an innocent idiot. Rigel Ifland: 23:56:15 At one point. M.O.: 23:56:15 but he is too fast and too spammy Rigel Ifland: 23:56:35 I'm not caught up, so I'm not sure what's happening just yet, but w/e. M.O.: 23:56:43 yep M.O.: 23:57:25 I have another thing I want to share with you M.O.: 23:57:37 redFF wrote me something... M.O.: 23:57:48 i paste it to you Rigel Ifland: 23:57:55 kk M.O.: 23:58:19 Original Message From redFF: say it in the thread. i think ur town though, i'll try and save u. Lucidity is scum imo, just a gut read. M.O.: 23:58:50 after that M.O.: 23:58:55 On July 19 2011 03:57 prplhz wrote: FoS on Lucidity Only two posts with content so far. + Show Spoiler + A post full of nothing. Talking about how to play the game in very general terms "some chaos is good if done right", "lurkers might be town". Neglects that Mr. Wiggles kinda wrote that post in the beginning when there was absolutely nothing else to talk about, and that CreamyButter was responding to a question directed at him, and wasn't even posting "town guide". No original content, and also somewhat self contradictory in that he complains about town guides yet his post contains a lot about what is/might be/may just happen to prove useful to town in some scenarios, in very vague terms. + Show Spoiler + Complaining about one-liner posters that's already been complained about. Huge rant about how it doesn't matter if people spam the thread up with VT claims while he knows that VT claims are useless. If they're useless then why do you think it's okay for people to spam the thread with them? Semi-jumps on the biggest bandwagon in this game but does not provide any original content or reasons at all. Overall he's also playing noob cards. So, Lucidity, who, besides supersoft, would you throw your vote at if you had to vote right now? M.O.: 23:59:07 this happened 2011-07-19 M.O.: 00:00:35 I think redFF might be scum, he knows I am innocent and he thinks his innocence will be proven if i flip green. Lucidity is mafias next target. prplhz is mafia, too. Rigel Ifland: 00:00:37 np M.O.: 00:00:42 yes ^_^ M.O.: 00:00:46 sorry Rigel Ifland: 00:02:42 So, Rigel Ifland: 00:03:21 I wouldn't say that RedFF is scum yet. Rigel Ifland: 00:03:44 The important thing to look at is whether or not he SHOULD be defending you. Rigel Ifland: 00:03:59 If someone builds a terrible case against player A, and player B defends him, M.O.: 00:04:08 yes you're right M.O.: 00:04:11 hmm Rigel Ifland: 00:04:12 B could be town or mafia Rigel Ifland: 00:04:22 BUT. if it's a really strong argument, M.O.: 00:04:33 it's an idea at least Rigel Ifland: 00:04:35 Then there's no reason for it. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:36 Yes. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:38 It is. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:43 Keep it in your collection of suspicions. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:59 If things keep addig up to scum, then accuse him. M.O.: 00:05:08 he wrote something: Rigel Ifland: 00:05:09 But be careful to avoid rose colored glasses. M.O.: 00:05:26 "yeah lol he's scum" M.O.: 00:05:56 ahm... "rose colored glasses"? :D I am german I don't understand these things :D M.O.: 00:06:35 the language is my mainproblem :D I am a lawstudent, I know how to defend me, but in english :D lol! :D Rigel Ifland: 00:06:54 ha, Rigel Ifland: 00:07:06 I don't even know it it's an english phrase. Rigel Ifland: 00:07:12 It's something someone said in a previous game. Rigel Ifland: 00:07:34 Essentially "rose colored glasses" turn everything red (or "rose" colored) M.O.: 00:07:51 aaah okay :D Rigel Ifland: 00:07:53 meaning that you look at RedFF as if he's scum, and so you only see the scummy parts, and not the parts that are townie. Rigel Ifland: 00:08:14 Becareful to keep an open mind. that's an easier way of saying it. M.O.: 00:10:51 yes M.O.: 00:10:59 you are right. hmm M.O.: 00:11:49 I probably PM jackal... He was the only one who noticed my finding of this ketomai thing Rigel Ifland: 00:13:00 Heh, be careful iwth Jackal. M.O.: 00:13:09 do you think we should publish this convesation? M.O.: 00:13:13 yes I know him ^_^ Rigel Ifland: 00:13:19 He's known for tunneling people. Not that he's not a good person to talk to , but just be ware of that fact. Rigel Ifland: 00:13:39 As far as publishing this convo, it's up to you. M.O.: 00:13:50 okay thank you. Rigel Ifland: 00:14:20 I wouldn't because it might look like two scum having a conversation to prove your innocence, but at the same time I couldbe scum trying to tell you not to giveme away. Rigel Ifland: 00:14:29 So I'll leave the decision up to you. M.O.: 00:15:32 yea I think it won't be bad for you. Rigel Ifland: 00:16:12 Heh, I'm not worried about me. M.O.: 00:16:15 :D Rigel Ifland: 00:16:15 I'm worried about you. M.O.: 00:16:20 me too M.O.: 00:16:22 haha M.O.: 00:21:36 i don't understand what do they want from me M.O.: 00:21:39 :D M.O.: 00:21:49 i can't defend myself more than i already did. M.O.: 00:21:55 i made a joke Rigel Ifland: 00:21:59 So, in the event that you are lynched, (and to be honest, I doubt you will because wagons don't usually last more than 36 hours.) M.O.: 00:22:01 that's it Rigel Ifland: 00:22:03 Here are a few pointers. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:19 Don't lie. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:28 Lemme back up. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:31 Don't claim. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:37 Don't lie. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:52 If you claim, stick with it, don't try to back peddle and say that you lied. M.O.: 00:23:38 yo Rigel Ifland: 00:23:46 If you want to prove your innocence, I would stop replying to stuff he's saying for a while. M.O.: 00:23:56 yes i already stoped Rigel Ifland: 00:24:20 Start voiceing your opinions on OTHER topics. M.O.: 00:25:07 i will push the ketomai case. I think it's reasonable... M.O.: 00:26:42 ah M.O.: 00:26:51 kenpachi suspects prplhz M.O.: 00:26:56 redFFs buddy Rigel Ifland: 00:27:49 Buddy/ Rigel Ifland: 00:27:51 *? M.O.: 00:28:17 i wrote you... wait a sec M.O.: 00:28:38 On July 19 2011 03:57 prplhz wrote: FoS on Lucidity Only two posts with content so far. + Show Spoiler + A post full of nothing. Talking about how to play the game in very general terms "some chaos is good if done right", "lurkers might be town". Neglects that Mr. Wiggles kinda wrote that post in the beginning when there was absolutely nothing else to talk about, and that CreamyButter was responding to a question directed at him, and wasn't even posting "town guide". No original content, and also somewhat self contradictory in that he complains about town guides yet his post contains a lot about what is/might be/may just happen to prove useful to town in some scenarios, in very vague terms. + Show Spoiler + Complaining about one-liner posters that's already been complained about. Huge rant about how it doesn't matter if people spam the thread up with VT claims while he knows that VT claims are useless. If they're useless then why do you think it's okay for people to spam the thread with them? Semi-jumps on the biggest bandwagon in this game but does not provide any original content or reasons at all. Overall he's also playing noob cards. So, Lucidity, who, besides supersoft, would you throw your vote at if you had to vote right now? M.O.: 00:29:04 he posted this one moment after redFF tried to convince me to tunnel Lucidity M.O.: 00:39:38 hmm M.O.: 00:39:44 i have to sleep now M.O.: 00:39:57 having much work tomorrow :-P Rigel Ifland: 00:40:03 gl! M.O.: 00:40:11 i already invested far too many time in this mafia :D M.O.: 00:40:29 but i have to keep my english-knowledge up :-D Rigel Ifland: 00:40:32 Yeah, it'll do that. M.O.: 00:40:45 thanks M.O.: 00:40:51 for the conversation M.O.: 00:40:56 see you Rigel Ifland: 00:41:06 np. Hopefully I can help you in the future. M.O.: 00:41:25 yes. I will survive. M.O.: 00:41:28 ^_^ i know it's hard to read, but my skype won't give it to me in a better format. I think you: On July 19 2011 07:25 Kenpachi wrote: I think prplhz is mafia. ##vote prplhz might be interested in reading this, because I think you might be right. | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
 Are you all asleep? Booooooooo. PM land better be uber busy. Sigh. So bored, so so bored. and so lonely. I guess I'll join you guys in dreamland. Tomorrow, there better be a lot more discussion and scum hunting. )=< We have less than 24 hours left! I'll leave with this message.VOTE WIGGLES! :D | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On July 19 2011 15:20 supersoft wrote: I am not motivated anymore to defend myself against this accusations. I share with you my most recent conversation with Kavdragon: + Show Spoiler + M.O.: 23:48:16 hi M.O.: 23:48:25 super here :-) Rigel Ifland: 23:48:31 He. Rigel Ifland: 23:48:36 *hey Rigel Ifland: 23:48:41 Ok, so you didn't talk to anyone else. Rigel Ifland: 23:48:43 LOL. M.O.: 23:48:48 what do you want to know :-) Rigel Ifland: 23:48:55 So we both know that your VT claim wasn't BS. M.O.: 23:48:57 i talked to wait M.O.: 23:49:14 before i "claimed" I didn't talk to anyone M.O.: 23:49:33 yes I know -,- M.O.: 23:49:46 after that, mig PMed me M.O.: 23:49:53 i posted the dialogue in the thread M.O.: 23:50:03 after that curu PMed me M.O.: 23:50:11 i also posted this in the thread Rigel Ifland: 23:50:21 right. M.O.: 23:50:29 and recently, redFF PMed me M.O.: 23:50:49 i didn't revealed that yet. I will if you actually lynch me. M.O.: 23:51:04 Because I think you need all the information Rigel Ifland: 23:51:23 I'm more inclined to believe that you are actually a townie, but my main point was just disproven by non other than myself. M.O.: 23:51:25 *town needs the information Rigel Ifland: 23:51:30 Damn and Damn again. M.O.: 23:51:36 mh? Rigel Ifland: 23:51:54 I just used fail logic to deduce that you are a townie. Rigel Ifland: 23:52:04 And then discovered my fail. M.O.: 23:52:15 okay... that's bad for me i guess :D Rigel Ifland: 23:52:27 let's just say that it involved me assuming people didn't read the OP. Rigel Ifland: 23:52:38 Which is a bad idea. Still, I think you are a townie. M.O.: 23:52:55 you are a townie, too? Rigel Ifland: 23:53:04 Can't say, but that's what I assume everyone is. M.O.: 23:53:12 you didn't read the OP before reading my post didn't you Rigel Ifland: 23:53:25 <_< Rigel Ifland: 23:53:26 >_> M.O.: 23:53:27 :D Rigel Ifland: 23:53:35 Yeah, I feel like an idiot. Rigel Ifland: 23:53:46 I was all like...WTF! People are voting for him! M.O.: 23:54:00 haha :D Rigel Ifland: 23:54:04 I had a PLAN, man. It was beautiful. Rigel Ifland: 23:54:16 And....completely useless now. M.O.: 23:54:23 hmm Rigel Ifland: 23:54:33 But still, I don't think that mafia would have done what you did, so I'm still leaning townie. M.O.: 23:55:11 yes I know... M.O.: 23:55:17 but curu tunnels me so hard M.O.: 23:55:24 and repeats his accuses over and over M.O.: 23:55:42 so the newbs think he got something Rigel Ifland: 23:55:44 Hmm. M.O.: 23:55:49 I actually think he's town, too Rigel Ifland: 23:56:11 He said that you are an innocent idiot. Rigel Ifland: 23:56:15 At one point. M.O.: 23:56:15 but he is too fast and too spammy Rigel Ifland: 23:56:35 I'm not caught up, so I'm not sure what's happening just yet, but w/e. M.O.: 23:56:43 yep M.O.: 23:57:25 I have another thing I want to share with you M.O.: 23:57:37 redFF wrote me something... M.O.: 23:57:48 i paste it to you Rigel Ifland: 23:57:55 kk M.O.: 23:58:19 Original Message From redFF: say it in the thread. i think ur town though, i'll try and save u. Lucidity is scum imo, just a gut read. M.O.: 23:58:50 after that M.O.: 23:58:55 On July 19 2011 03:57 prplhz wrote: FoS on Lucidity Only two posts with content so far. + Show Spoiler + A post full of nothing. Talking about how to play the game in very general terms "some chaos is good if done right", "lurkers might be town". Neglects that Mr. Wiggles kinda wrote that post in the beginning when there was absolutely nothing else to talk about, and that CreamyButter was responding to a question directed at him, and wasn't even posting "town guide". No original content, and also somewhat self contradictory in that he complains about town guides yet his post contains a lot about what is/might be/may just happen to prove useful to town in some scenarios, in very vague terms. + Show Spoiler + Complaining about one-liner posters that's already been complained about. Huge rant about how it doesn't matter if people spam the thread up with VT claims while he knows that VT claims are useless. If they're useless then why do you think it's okay for people to spam the thread with them? Semi-jumps on the biggest bandwagon in this game but does not provide any original content or reasons at all. Overall he's also playing noob cards. So, Lucidity, who, besides supersoft, would you throw your vote at if you had to vote right now? M.O.: 23:59:07 this happened 2011-07-19 M.O.: 00:00:35 I think redFF might be scum, he knows I am innocent and he thinks his innocence will be proven if i flip green. Lucidity is mafias next target. prplhz is mafia, too. Rigel Ifland: 00:00:37 np M.O.: 00:00:42 yes ^_^ M.O.: 00:00:46 sorry Rigel Ifland: 00:02:42 So, Rigel Ifland: 00:03:21 I wouldn't say that RedFF is scum yet. Rigel Ifland: 00:03:44 The important thing to look at is whether or not he SHOULD be defending you. Rigel Ifland: 00:03:59 If someone builds a terrible case against player A, and player B defends him, M.O.: 00:04:08 yes you're right M.O.: 00:04:11 hmm Rigel Ifland: 00:04:12 B could be town or mafia Rigel Ifland: 00:04:22 BUT. if it's a really strong argument, M.O.: 00:04:33 it's an idea at least Rigel Ifland: 00:04:35 Then there's no reason for it. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:36 Yes. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:38 It is. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:43 Keep it in your collection of suspicions. Rigel Ifland: 00:04:59 If things keep addig up to scum, then accuse him. M.O.: 00:05:08 he wrote something: Rigel Ifland: 00:05:09 But be careful to avoid rose colored glasses. M.O.: 00:05:26 "yeah lol he's scum" M.O.: 00:05:56 ahm... "rose colored glasses"? :D I am german I don't understand these things :D M.O.: 00:06:35 the language is my mainproblem :D I am a lawstudent, I know how to defend me, but in english :D lol! :D Rigel Ifland: 00:06:54 ha, Rigel Ifland: 00:07:06 I don't even know it it's an english phrase. Rigel Ifland: 00:07:12 It's something someone said in a previous game. Rigel Ifland: 00:07:34 Essentially "rose colored glasses" turn everything red (or "rose" colored) M.O.: 00:07:51 aaah okay :D Rigel Ifland: 00:07:53 meaning that you look at RedFF as if he's scum, and so you only see the scummy parts, and not the parts that are townie. Rigel Ifland: 00:08:14 Becareful to keep an open mind. that's an easier way of saying it. M.O.: 00:10:51 yes M.O.: 00:10:59 you are right. hmm M.O.: 00:11:49 I probably PM jackal... He was the only one who noticed my finding of this ketomai thing Rigel Ifland: 00:13:00 Heh, be careful iwth Jackal. M.O.: 00:13:09 do you think we should publish this convesation? M.O.: 00:13:13 yes I know him ^_^ Rigel Ifland: 00:13:19 He's known for tunneling people. Not that he's not a good person to talk to , but just be ware of that fact. Rigel Ifland: 00:13:39 As far as publishing this convo, it's up to you. M.O.: 00:13:50 okay thank you. Rigel Ifland: 00:14:20 I wouldn't because it might look like two scum having a conversation to prove your innocence, but at the same time I couldbe scum trying to tell you not to giveme away. Rigel Ifland: 00:14:29 So I'll leave the decision up to you. M.O.: 00:15:32 yea I think it won't be bad for you. Rigel Ifland: 00:16:12 Heh, I'm not worried about me. M.O.: 00:16:15 :D Rigel Ifland: 00:16:15 I'm worried about you. M.O.: 00:16:20 me too M.O.: 00:16:22 haha M.O.: 00:21:36 i don't understand what do they want from me M.O.: 00:21:39 :D M.O.: 00:21:49 i can't defend myself more than i already did. M.O.: 00:21:55 i made a joke Rigel Ifland: 00:21:59 So, in the event that you are lynched, (and to be honest, I doubt you will because wagons don't usually last more than 36 hours.) M.O.: 00:22:01 that's it Rigel Ifland: 00:22:03 Here are a few pointers. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:19 Don't lie. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:28 Lemme back up. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:31 Don't claim. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:37 Don't lie. Rigel Ifland: 00:22:52 If you claim, stick with it, don't try to back peddle and say that you lied. M.O.: 00:23:38 yo Rigel Ifland: 00:23:46 If you want to prove your innocence, I would stop replying to stuff he's saying for a while. M.O.: 00:23:56 yes i already stoped Rigel Ifland: 00:24:20 Start voiceing your opinions on OTHER topics. M.O.: 00:25:07 i will push the ketomai case. I think it's reasonable... M.O.: 00:26:42 ah M.O.: 00:26:51 kenpachi suspects prplhz M.O.: 00:26:56 redFFs buddy Rigel Ifland: 00:27:49 Buddy/ Rigel Ifland: 00:27:51 *? M.O.: 00:28:17 i wrote you... wait a sec M.O.: 00:28:38 On July 19 2011 03:57 prplhz wrote: FoS on Lucidity Only two posts with content so far. + Show Spoiler + A post full of nothing. Talking about how to play the game in very general terms "some chaos is good if done right", "lurkers might be town". Neglects that Mr. Wiggles kinda wrote that post in the beginning when there was absolutely nothing else to talk about, and that CreamyButter was responding to a question directed at him, and wasn't even posting "town guide". No original content, and also somewhat self contradictory in that he complains about town guides yet his post contains a lot about what is/might be/may just happen to prove useful to town in some scenarios, in very vague terms. + Show Spoiler + Complaining about one-liner posters that's already been complained about. Huge rant about how it doesn't matter if people spam the thread up with VT claims while he knows that VT claims are useless. If they're useless then why do you think it's okay for people to spam the thread with them? Semi-jumps on the biggest bandwagon in this game but does not provide any original content or reasons at all. Overall he's also playing noob cards. So, Lucidity, who, besides supersoft, would you throw your vote at if you had to vote right now? M.O.: 00:29:04 he posted this one moment after redFF tried to convince me to tunnel Lucidity M.O.: 00:39:38 hmm M.O.: 00:39:44 i have to sleep now M.O.: 00:39:57 having much work tomorrow :-P Rigel Ifland: 00:40:03 gl! M.O.: 00:40:11 i already invested far too many time in this mafia :D M.O.: 00:40:29 but i have to keep my english-knowledge up :-D Rigel Ifland: 00:40:32 Yeah, it'll do that. M.O.: 00:40:45 thanks M.O.: 00:40:51 for the conversation M.O.: 00:40:56 see you Rigel Ifland: 00:41:06 np. Hopefully I can help you in the future. M.O.: 00:41:25 yes. I will survive. M.O.: 00:41:28 ^_^ i know it's hard to read, but my skype won't give it to me in a better format. I think you: might be interested in reading this, because I think you might be right. Kenpachi is notorious for never being right. just dont lynch him till end game | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
##vote redFF The recent comments by redFF in supersoft's PMs raised a red flag for me. Previously I advocated voting for supersoft on the grounds that there was a lack of strong evidence to vote otherwise, but after looking back at some of what redFF has written, I change my mind. I've stated before that mafia prefers games of chaos and doubt. The worst case scenario, other than an actual mafia member being bandwagoned for the mafia, would be a comfortable town reaching a decision almost unanimously. Therefore, in a time where we are experiencing something very close to a unianimous decision (supersoft), it's advantageous for a mafia such as redFF to attempt to disrupt that. redFF's play thusfar displays pretty obvious characteristics of typical mafia play. The first most obvious sign in retrospect is that his first posts that actually have content bring up new people to accuse right away. At first he accuses Curu: On July 19 2011 04:14 redFF wrote: ... i'm his scumbuddy? Please tell me how i am his scumbuddy. Just because i don't agree with this lynch and bandwagon doesn't make me his scumbuddy... On July 19 2011 04:40 redFF wrote: Curu: I made that post on you because you started a bandwagon on someone with flimsy reasoning and it looks to me like nobody is trying to stop you. You've spammed up this thread the most out of anyone curu... This bandwagon is dumb. Curu post less you aren't as good as you seem to think you are lol. Apparently he found 2 scum day 1 GUYZ!!!!!!!111111ONEONEONE!!!! Please people read the thread and form your own opinions, differentiate between scum and newer player who is being intimidated. Saying i only started trying to post useful stuff when you started tunneling supersoft is wrong and a cheap way to try and lower my credibility. If you are town stop being stupid, if you are scum continue but i implore everyone else to stop listening to him. The first quote really doesn't implicate him right away. It appear as if he's just curious and checking Curu (and for good reason). For that reason I didn't really care that he didn't give an explanation for why he did not vote supersoft. Again, to me, the reasoning for supersoft's votes was pretty obvious relative to the evidence present at day 1, but overall, not very strong. It wouldn't really be strange to poke and prod a bit for a better lynch candidate. In the second quote, he reveals his opinion, that he doesn't think supersoft is the correct vote. Once again, this doesn't implicate him immediately because we have a lack of evidence. The vote was originally shaky at best, so there's no reason to view his behavior as anything but cynical, investigating townie. However, recently another piece of evidence appeared: Original Message From redFF: say it in the thread. i think ur town though, i'll try and save u. Lucidity is scum imo, just a gut read. This PM reveals that his reasoning for not voting is not because he wants to prod for a better alternative. If that's not his reason, then why does he randomly disagree without reason? He outright tells supersoft that he thinks he's town. Because the recipient is supersoft, he can avoid listing his reasoning. Someone who's being defended will not often question why his defender is there, but instead assumes that the defender sees the truth. However, if scrutinized by us, it just looks like he's randomly defending supersoft and then using it as an excuse to create unnecessary chaos and other candidates in a stable town. This goes back to what I said earlier: mafia does not want a comfortable, agreeable town, they want a lot of useless conflict and arguments. What redFF is trying to create with his posts is exactly that: needless conflict. He believes he can do it for free without being investigated because the current bandwagon doesn't have a lot of foundation to begin with. To add to that, he even throws out another name without any other reason than "gut". This is clearly mafia behavior and reasoning, and because it's in a PM with a recipient under fire, he doesn't think he will get caught doing it, and if he's lucky, supersoft will become an unintentional mouthpiece to voice more chaos/blame for him. In all of his posts and PMs, there's NO indication for his reasoning for supersoft's innocence. He only throws out statements with no evidence, then proceeds to attack random people with even less evidence for doing so. The result is potential for town chaos, but there are only rewards for him if he is mafia. Baseless attacking/defending is a common trait for mafia, not a cooperative townie. The rest of his posting history in this thread doesn't help him at all. As pointed out earlier, he denounces "spam" and "contentless" posts, yet he continues to post one liners that contribute nothing. The only thing he has tried to contribute to town is needless uncertainty on a previously pretty easy lynch decision. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
That's right, that dark blue banner doesn't scare me... In all seriousness, I'm not really convinced about anyone's scumminess. I suppose that supersoft is kind of suspicious, but the read I got is someone who just didn't want to get accused of lurking and not necessarily scum. Also I'm a little suspicious of early bandwagons - especially given that it's the second day 1 bandwagon (and I feel a little more likely to be scum driven than the first one on Coagulation). Since I'm not really sure who to vote for and I'm not exactly sure when the day is over, I'm going to put a place-holder vote for someone nobody else is likely to vote for (i.e. I'm going to abstain from voting day 1 unless something really obvious comes up). | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On July 19 2011 18:02 Pyo wrote: ##vote: Liquid`Nazgul That's right, that dark blue banner doesn't scare me... In all seriousness, I'm not really convinced about anyone's scumminess. I suppose that supersoft is kind of suspicious, but the read I got is someone who just didn't want to get accused of lurking and not necessarily scum. Also I'm a little suspicious of early bandwagons - especially given that it's the second day 1 bandwagon (and I feel a little more likely to be scum driven than the first one on Coagulation). Since I'm not really sure who to vote for and I'm not exactly sure when the day is over, I'm going to put a place-holder vote for someone nobody else is likely to vote for (i.e. I'm going to abstain from voting day 1 unless something really obvious comes up). That's the most anti-town post I've read in this thread. | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
On July 19 2011 18:02 Pyo wrote: ##vote: Liquid`Nazgul That's right, that dark blue banner doesn't scare me... In all seriousness, I'm not really convinced about anyone's scumminess. I suppose that supersoft is kind of suspicious, but the read I got is someone who just didn't want to get accused of lurking and not necessarily scum. Also I'm a little suspicious of early bandwagons - especially given that it's the second day 1 bandwagon (and I feel a little more likely to be scum driven than the first one on Coagulation). Since I'm not really sure who to vote for and I'm not exactly sure when the day is over, I'm going to put a place-holder vote for someone nobody else is likely to vote for (i.e. I'm going to abstain from voting day 1 unless something really obvious comes up). Pyo outed himself as scum, for more detailed analysis scroll a bit back for my analyisis on him | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
##Unvote Supersoft ##Vote Pyo | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
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