EPTI loathe Town.
Closed Casket Mafia
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Fishball
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I loathe Town. | ||
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Fishball
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1. GCQ 2. GMarshal 3. ??? 4. ??? | ||
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Fishball
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On June 25 2011 13:28 GMarshal wrote: You know, the third person to post after the game has opened is always scum!  We'll see at the end. | ||
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On June 25 2011 13:27 Ace wrote: Everyone should have gotten a role PM. If you didn't send myself or YM a PM asap. Game *officially* starts in 23.5 hours, but you can start discussing things now. REMEMBER WE START AT NIGHT 0! Good Luck! Can't we just start the blood shed now. This is boring. | ||
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On June 26 2011 06:15 deconduo wrote: So why not suggest something else to talk about isntead of popping into the thread to shoot down the current discussion and just disappear? First, I only asked a question regarding the logic behind this Day 1 lynch discussion on a Night 0 start. This is far from "shooting down the current discussion". For all I care, you guys can just ignore what I said and continue. Hell we only have 6 hours or so left. Second, if you're too dumb to figure out a better topic, that's your problem. Like I said, I asked a question; I'm not here to give answers. | ||
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On June 26 2011 07:45 GGQ wrote: -1 point for questioning the value of discussion without bringing up another topic -1 point for insulting other posters -1 point for outright refusing to contribute. 'I'm not here to give answers' ... ??? Yeah you kind of are, unless you don't want town to win. - Who says I have to bring up another topic? - When did I insult other players? I said "If you're" - Bad reading comprehension is bad. - Refusing to contribute? You obviously don't see what I see. I'm keeping a close eye on all those who have proposed their grand lynching plan. | ||
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On June 26 2011 08:43 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Hey fishball, have you ever been lynched in a game yet? How can you forget? You had half a hand in it. In DrH's experimental game, I purposely got myself lynched as a social experiment and player profiling. Then I was also lynched in PYP3 where I was the Traitor, which was to be expected after lynching you confirmed a Traitor existed in the game and it was only a matter of time people worked up the list. My main purpose at that time was to waste as many lynches as possible. In short, I was never lynched as a real Mafia candidate ever since the start of TL Mafia in Feb 2008. | ||
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On June 26 2011 09:27 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: haha, I feel proud of that. I remember I looked at everyone above me and was like "fishball, that bastard" you were the only one in that list who was stupid/crazy enough to do that. Shame it got me killed. I don't recall you getting lynched in DrH's game, but I got subbed out halfway into Day 1 for that shit with aidnai. Well, I guess I don't have to push your lynch just to make that statement not true anymore You can still push to lynch me. It does not matter to me, but other players might question your motives, whatever that motive is. Anyways, who are you killing tonight? | ||
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On June 26 2011 21:33 Radfield wrote: First off, I forgot that this was a N0 start, so that changes things. Having enough information to actually build a case against someone Day 1 becomes much more likely with a N0 start. Ding Ding Ding. Finally someone notices their own mistake, whether legit or not. This is why I said - On June 26 2011 05:41 Fishball wrote: Why are we discussing Day 1 lynch so much for now? It's a Night 0 start, and a lot can develop over to Day 1. It's mind boggling to me that some players would not notice this, or they're doing it on purpose. I wonder why. | ||
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On June 27 2011 18:26 deconduo wrote: Fishball and Caller have been totally useless, and I'm waiting to see if LSB has anything to say. These are the people that should be up for lynching today. In a no reveal setup, anyone thats just fucking around without giving of any reads needs to die. Such a hypocrite, and daft to boot. Although after what you displayed in PYP3, I expected nothing less from you. Or do you have a different agenda? Oh well, time will tell. On June 27 2011 20:48 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Well yes, I know he said that. But sometimes mafia have other ways of killing, like a poisoner or something. I remember in merc mafia I was mafia with 1 KP and I had two explosive vests I could give out and detonate. I believe in DrH's ExMiMa mafia had some other sort of KP role, I think it involved giving out fake medicine pills that killed people. The catch with those is that they temporarily raise mafia KP while not being a permanent asset to the mafia. It is not likely this game will have that sort of setup. That would be way overboard. I'm more intrigued that you would even think that way. | ||
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Fishball
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On June 27 2011 23:30 deconduo wrote: -Super defensive -Resorting to (bad) personal attacks -Still hasn't contributed. Has Fishball stepped up his posting? Nope. ##Vote Fishball Me? Defensive? lol. (Bad) personal attacks? I only speak the truth. So if I start using the "shit"™ word, you'll start crying to mommy right? Contribute, contribute, contribute. I'm sick of these puny accusations every game. Not making a 12893019 word analysis does not mean not contributing; I'm constantly thinking how scummy you're acting, for real. ##Vote deconduo | ||
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On June 28 2011 02:41 deconduo wrote: Yes I have and he was terrible in both games. He got lynched in both games and thoroughly deserved it. Herp derp, someone likes to live in his own fantasy world. I can quote all the post game analysis done on you by OTHERS after this game, as well as our little PM conversation that I treasure like a maiden's virginity. You can continue to be delusional as you will, but I'm sure other players can figure out things on their own. | ||
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On June 28 2011 06:15 deconduo wrote: Lets liven things up a bit more. Fishball, if you don't step up your posting I'm vigging you tonight. Unless I can get you lynched first. You can do whatever you like. I post whatever I want, when I want. Your threats only makes yourself look dumb. When I flip Town at the end of game, you can then blurt out "Fishball, you played so bad. You're so useless so I vigi'd you. Sucks that you are green but you dug your own grave." Nevermind, I just said it for you. Anything else? | ||
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On June 28 2011 06:41 deconduo wrote: I'm like 75% sure you're green. You are just useless. Think of it as cutting off dead skin. Scum tell right there, again. "I think you're green, but I also think you're useless, so you must die." With a no-flip setup, what an opportunity to take out a player! If we don't have a solid lynch candidate, you just made yourself one. | ||
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On June 28 2011 07:04 Scamp wrote: Good lord there's a lot of shit over the last four pages. This game has turned into who is the biggest asshole. (Caller don't say anything about that.) I don't see trolling the thread as being active. Fishball I asked you a question on page 8. Please answer it sometime. If I had to explain everything I do, than that would not be my game. Fishball fishes with his own fishy ways. I also said On June 25 2011 13:27 Fishball wrote: Mafia list: 1. GCQ 2. GMarshal 3. ??? 4. ??? That means we have 2 scum left right? | ||
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On June 28 2011 07:30 deconduo wrote: 'Oh no, I'm going to get killed if I don't starting playing properly. Oh wait, lets just try and get the guy killed instead. That way he can't kill me' See people? Fine example of a typical logic twister; Doesn't even talk sense at all. Let's see how many of the remaining 14 players would agree with your claim of killing a "likely 75% townie", or my claim of you being Mafia using a no-flip setup to disguise your kill. I'm done with you for the cycle, feel free to bark more nonsense. | ||
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On June 28 2011 08:06 LSB wrote: About Fishball, he doesn't like to post what he considers useless, and that includes most of pre-game talk. And deconduo, what do you think, should we focus day 1 on policy lynches or scumhunting? You got it half right. It's quite obvious to all the older players that I do things my way. I enjoy observing/fishing early, and this time deconduo bit the bait; I didn't even aim for him at the start. When I questioned all the fuss regarding the Day 1 lynch on Night 0, deconduo jumped on my throat. Like I mentioned before, I don't expect a player like him to share my thoughts, so whatever. Then he called me and Caller "useless" - Me and Caller useless, alright. At that time, BC only posted once in the thread, and was still MIA for a long period of time after he confirmed, no mention. Hesmyrr was gone for a long while as well, no mention. People arguing over trivial things, no mention. If you go through the thread, in the first 24 hours, there isn't much you can exactly call " solid contribution". Activity? Yes, but contribution? Sure, but definitely not much. Anyways, it somehow boiled down to me and Caller as the scummiest, cool. After further beating around the bush, deconduo finally admits that he thinks I'm town, but I should die because I'm useless by his claims. Now take a step back and think. This game is no-flip. Assuming that he kills me, no one would ever know what my alignment is. There is no "oops, I screwed up" moment. People might also think it was just his rage that got the best of him and not dig too deep into his motives - Perfect cover. Bottom line, if you're Town aligned, claiming that you think that someone is Town, but should die due to personal bias, is just flat out retarded. This is ranked higher on my list than the lynch-all-liars policy lynch. The damage such player would cause could be much higher than another player just "shitting up the thread" (which I'm not even remotely close of doing). Now, you guys already had a lot of discussion on Night 0 regarding the lynch. Was there any conclusion? Nope? Then consider what I said up top. We have about 24 hours to decide who to lynch, and unless you guys have a better candidate to present, I won't budge my vote. deconduo wanted my contribution? He gets my contribution. Too bad it's against him. | ||
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On June 28 2011 10:31 ilovejonn wrote: Also read Fishball's post. I also find it really odd when players go "dude I think you're town, but you should still die." It makes no sense, If you think he's town why would you want him to die. That isn't playing to win, that's just flat out stupid. "Oh but he can still be scum" is not a good come back. Seems like you're just going with your gut that Fishball is scum even though there is a much higher chance that he is town. That makes me suspicious of deconduo as well. Oh, seems like there are more gems to add, since I missed a new post deconduo made last page. On June 28 2011 08:21 deconduo wrote: I'm just pissed at Fishball for trolling so I haven't been paying proper attention to the game. My bad. ##Unvote Fishball I'll deal with Fishball tonight. Does no one see the hypocrisy? So deconduo finally came to his senses, figured out that somehow I was "trolling", and it was his bad for wanting me lynched and diverting Town's attention, so he takes his lone vote off me. No one had listened to him in the thread; Numerous players had came to my defense, but only now he figured it was not in the best interest of Town to talk about killing me; When there were no arguments left on his side to justify his actions and players were starting to question his motives. The giveaway was the fact that he is still claiming that he will "deal" with me at Night. The best of both worlds? Nice try. I'm pretty sure he has been paying attention to his game alright. His Mafia game. | ||
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On June 28 2011 11:50 Jackal58 wrote: Just so there are no misconceptions Fishball, my post regarding what I perceive as lunacy from decon is in no way shape or form a defense of you. For all I know right now you're as scummy as they get. Noticed I didn't name names? | ||
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On June 28 2011 12:58 LSB wrote: @BC I agree with you. Now, back to the important stuff About Deconduo and Fishball Deconduo believes that Fishball should die, and would like nothing better to stand over his dead body. Fishball believes Deconduo is mafia (correct me if I'm wrong on this), and therefore wouldn't be able to vig shot him, but rather would use a mafia hit. What's an easy way to deal with this problem? Easy! Stick them in a cage and see who comes out alive. Just let deconduo shoot Fishball tonight. Oh, and can I please ask vigs to not hit people? Thx *If Fishball survives, well, deconduo has some explaing to do *If we find two bodies tomorrow morning, deconduo is a bit better off in his story *If all we find tomorrow is Fishball dead, one body. Well, back to square one. There! Clean and simple solution that doesn't waste a lynch Ah yes, LSB logic. Oh, how I miss it. 1. If deconduo decides not to shoot me, that doesn't necessarily prove anything. It can be a ploy, or it can a be a genuine decision. 2. If we both die, that also doesn't proves anything. What is this "story" that your dreamt about?. deconduo thinks I'm green, but wants to kill me because he is annoyed. If I'm Mafia and I try to take him out with me, how would this story make sense? What would be the point for Mafia to take him out if I were for sure to die? I'm sure there are better targets out there. 3. Square one? If that is what you think, then you have already written me off, as I have no use to the Town at all; What do you take me for, a disposable chess piece? I don't even know what to say. On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote: Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up. Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable. If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable. As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP. WTF is this shit? This is even worse than deconduo. If I were a Dayvig, I'd instant kill you now. | ||
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On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote: I actually think you guys are missing the point on LSB post to be honest, cuz I can see a really pro-town outcome if you read between the lines. Blanket statement with no content. Me and BC at least explained our arguments. What you're literally saying is, "John Doe is a nice guy, just look between his legs". On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote: Chaoser is my number one suspect for the moment, I call him out on lurking then he pops up and posts a ranking list with no explanation. Seriously? I wonder how many times I've seen this. Regardless of what Chaoser's alignment and the content of his posts, your accusations alone does not make a strong case. Accuse a random lurker, lurker pops out and posts something, therefore said lurker is scum! On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote: @Deconduo What do you think about chaoser? Is he town that needs to die or scum? "Is he town that needs to die or scum?" What kind of shit question is this? "Town that needs to die?" What, are you deconduo Junior?! Does the consensus shows a strong town read on deconduo? No. Then why are you asking deconduo specifically? What do YOU think of Chaoser besides the so called reason listed above? To summarize, your post is a filler post, with little to no content, faking activity and discussion with an agenda that does not help Town at all. Normally, I would just disregard these posts, assuming the players were just bad, but since this is an invitational game, I'm curious about your alignment. On June 28 2011 11:50 Jackal58 wrote: Just so there are no misconceptions Fishball, my post regarding what I perceive as lunacy from decon is in no way shape or form a defense of you. For all I know right now you're as scummy as they get. And back to Jackal while I'm at it. Like I said, I never named names. Those who defended me have made it obvious. Regardless, you also think I'm scummy - "as scummy as they get" that is. Alright, cool. Do you have a case about it? No? Another blanket statement? Is this the so called contribution and activity everyone was yearning for? I call this crap. | ||
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On June 28 2011 15:14 sandroba wrote: LOL seriously? Have you read chaoser's second post after I called him out for lurking? Also way to make me look scummy when I was obviously calling out deconduo on his earlier statement (that you were 75% and needed to die) and trying to get his opinion on chaoser. I think it's pro-town because it discourages mafia from hitting anyone if they want to cause confusion or Decon is mafia or 2 people get hit. If medics can figure your aligment the outcome is pretty pro-town don't you think? I knew you would jump the gun. I said regardless of what Chaoser's alignment and what he says. Both BC and you have made a post targeting Chaoser, yet you don't see me picking on his post. Alright, I'll take your point and let that deconduo statement slide, but still, my main point stands. Small talk back and forth, asking questions (like the majority of your posts) doesn't do much. If you have a case against someone, go all out on it; If you have points to be made, make it and support it. In general, I don't see much of that in the thread among the players, instead I see a lot of blanket statements and shallow accusations and questioning. No doubt there will be Mafia among them trying to blend, but it pisses me off more when a Town aligned player pull these acts. Besides my random jabs, there is a reason why I like to remain silent until I have something to say. On June 28 2011 15:14 sandroba wrote: I think it's pro-town because it discourages mafia from hitting anyone if they want to cause confusion or Decon is mafia or 2 people get hit. If medics can figure your aligment the outcome is pretty pro-town don't you think? ...Mafia is not dumb. If two people were strangling each other throats, it's common sense to let them fight each other. LSB saying this "out loud" does not make it a pro-town move. Important thing is, what if there is a Mafia among us? What if deconduo is Mafia? He just got away with a free kill. Hell I already made a couple posts regarding deconduo, and replied to LSB's post point by point up top. If you still don't see the logic, then I can't help you. | ||
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On June 29 2011 22:31 Caller wrote: + Show Spoiler + Why I voted LSB LSB has dropped more one-liners than Horatio Crane. On June 29 2011 00:28 LSB wrote: Missed that game. All right, I'll take a look at it On June 29 2011 07:47 LSB wrote: And it would be naive to try to argue that there isn't one. On June 29 2011 07:45 LSB wrote: Because in nearly every game there is a roleblocker or some sort for balance purposes. On June 29 2011 07:21 LSB wrote: Of course, both can't be mafia, and if you told me to pick one, I'd pick decon. So Unvote ##Vote: Deconduo On June 29 2011 00:23 LSB wrote: Oooh that makes more sense. ##VOTE: Chaoser Placeholder vote. But I still think we should look at Kurumi He’s also Lord Ispeculateaboutsetupinsteadofwhosmafiaasidefromeasytroll On June 29 2011 00:46 LSB wrote: Your aggressiveness is new (from what I've gathered), your mafia experience is not. So I'll stick you back in the null reads box since Palmar cleared up his analysis. On June 29 2011 00:20 LSB wrote: For the record if the deadline was tonight, I would be voting Chaoser for lurking. Of course, the deadline isn't tonight, so no need to hurry the decision. Now to look at Kurumi. Intresting analysis. But why does "trolling" make someone mafia? If trolling makes someone mafia, shouldn't Caller also be in that list? Now to add my own two cents. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) I haven't played with Kurumi yet, but a quick overview over his posting history shows that he normally isn't this aggressive. In addition, I don't believe he has played as mafia yet here, and the first time as mafia is always difficult. Could the aggressiveness be a sign of defensiveness? Or did I skim over his posts in XL too much? + Show Spoiler [Spam] + Ooh that's a clever flowchart, doesn't seem that fun but it helps On June 29 2011 07:21 LSB wrote: All I'm saying is let us leave them alone and not bother to lynch either of them. I'm not getting that much warm fuzzies towards them and I don't see how your "I can't read Fishball" somehow means he is town. Btw I ran through Fishball's posts and I haven't really found any "Noteworthy Contributions", unless attacking Decon is noteworthy And deconduo I don't like how he is drawing too much attention to himself as vig. From what I remember, viges shoot first and talk later here, not the other way around. On June 29 2011 07:42 LSB wrote: Certain mafia like to draw attention to themselves, certain mafia don't. I just don't see why a vig would like to draw attention to himself. See, if Fishball was really mafia, the only thing that's gonna happen tonight is the roleblocker is going to pay you a visit, and all that's left is an angry town wondering why there is only one dead body. As for people defending Fishball, well by the pigeonhole principle states that not all of them can be mafia, and certainly I'd like more proof of his contributions, but saying someone is mafia because people are defending him is pretty wifom. In other words, in about 15 posts LSB has not said one goddamn thing and got away with it. He's either a blue or scum, and I feel LSB would be far more aggressive if he were a blue than he is now. This has been the 9:15 news. After reading his analysis on me and deconduo, I did say I'd shoot him on the spot if I can. Anyways, I'm really busy at work now, couldn't even post a thing yesterday. I will be busy for the next couple days. Was going to make a major move, but just don't have the time right now to type it up and constantly pay attention to it, it probably wouldn't matter anyways. *cough* Just trying to squeeze in a post and read some of the thread right now while getting my morning refreshments. Hopefully I can drop by again during lunch break. | ||
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I didn't even see that deconduo was mod killed when I made a post this morning. Now I'm very interested why. | ||
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On June 30 2011 13:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Who the fuck tried to kill me last night? Oh, if only if it was true. So the first cycle was somewhat eventful for me. My little spin with deconduo was able to keep me low for a couple Nights. When he claimed that he had a gun, I had no choice but to improvise with my plan, accusing him scum. If what he claimed was true, the stubborn tunnel-vision fucker would have really shot me. In truth, he was never a true scum candidate to me. I made my "best case" against deconduo, but I knew that the town wouldn't fall for it (especially in an invitational game) and him resulting in a lynch would be far from likely. In doing so, it was a subtle attempt to talk deconduo off NOT to shoot me, and also to observe how all the players would react; I saw a lot of things. I would have ride along for another Night if possible, but I think I have sufficient information to come forward. I am a Cop Since I cannot copy and paste my role description, let me explain how my role works. When I check a player, the results either comes back as "Innocent" for Town aligned players, or "Guilty" for Mafia. I questioned Ace immediately upon receiving my role, and he has clarified that there are no sanity variants of my role. Everything is straight forward with my checks, which is pretty much what I had expected in a no-flip game. Here are my check results: Night 0 - Innocent - BloodyC0bbler Night 1 - Guilty - RebirthOfLeGenD Night 0 was with limited information and was hard to get a read on everyone. I picked BC to have him out of the way first, for good or bad. Night 1 was a bit trickier. My goal was to check the less obvious targets, those that are in the gray area, but you know that something doesn't add up. I had a few candidates: Palmar, ilovejonn, and RebirthOfLeGenD. At the end, I picked RoL based on a my observation of his posting, the overall voting pattern for Day 1, and the fact that he took off his vote from VisceraEyes and broke the promise that he would his change his vote back; A key factor that Day 0 resulted in a no-lynch. Since RebirthOfLeGenD ended up as Guilty, based on the move he pulled with his vote, I'm even more inclined that VisceraEyes is also scum, not like he isn't a major candidate already. RoL had explained why he missed the vote change, but I obviously don't buy it, he knows way better than that. Not like I can doubt my own check anyways. Now 4 players had voted for Amber[Light]: VisceraEyes, Chezinu, Scamp, and RebirthOfLeGenD. Amber has not been the most active player, yes, but there were not many holes among his minimal amount of posting either. As you can see, none of the so called "well-known-solid-players" have voted for him, and it only make sense. It seems to me that Mafia is using a lurker (Amber) as a scapegoat to divert their votes onto, as they obviously do not want to lynch one of their own, which is VisceraEyes. Scamp is obviously Town since he was killed on Night 1, and Chezinu? No comment. Moving back to deconduo and the 3 players who voted for him. Myself, ilovejonn, and LSB. I already explained my thoughts up top on why I had voted for deconduo. To be honest, there shouldn't be anyone beside myself voting for deconduo. Let's talk about LSB first. Based on the posts he made on page 14 and 15, I already had him locked as Mafia. What I said back then was sincere. If I were a Day Vigilante, I would have instantly shot him. + Show Spoiler + On June 28 2011 14:27 Fishball wrote: Ah yes, LSB logic. Oh, how I miss it. 1. If deconduo decides not to shoot me, that doesn't necessarily prove anything. It can be a ploy, or it can a be a genuine decision. 2. If we both die, that also doesn't proves anything. What is this "story" that your dreamt about?. deconduo thinks I'm green, but wants to kill me because he is annoyed. If I'm Mafia and I try to take him out with me, how would this story make sense? What would be the point for Mafia to take him out if I were for sure to die? I'm sure there are better targets out there. 3. Square one? If that is what you think, then you have already written me off, as I have no use to the Town at all; What do you take me for, a disposable chess piece? I don't even know what to say. WTF is this shit? This is even worse than deconduo. If I were a Dayvig, I'd instant kill you now. At first, he suggests letting deconduo shoot me and Town should not intervene, which I pointed out would not prove anything, and at worst I die for nothing except for satisfying deconduo's bloodlust, Town loses a Cop (maybe the one and only) and Mafia can laugh at my "foolishness"™. Then for whatever reason, he votes for deconduo that is not likely to be lynched, instead of the more scummy VisceraEyes that was already leading the majority of the votes. It seems to me that this was just another case of Mafia spreading out their votes. My case against deconduo seems to be "decently developed" but it was just a trap and LSB stepped right into it. Caller, BC and maybe a couple others has also called out LSB as well, so this only supports my claim - LSB is Mafia. Last, we have ilovejonn. ilovejonn is a smart player, his posts doesn't give away much, and even talks a lot of sense in some. Why would a smart player such as himself vote for deconduo? In Radfield's words, deconduo was oozing with green. I was a bit perplexed and had him listed as one of my check candidates as mentioned above. If a fourth Mafia is still alive, I'd be willing to put my money on him; No matter, I will check him on Night 3. In conclusion, these are my Mafia picks. - VisceraEyes - RebirthOfLeGenD - LSB - ilovejonn (If we have a fourth Mafia, which is likely we still do) Oh, and before someone questions, I realize there is a possibility of a Godfather or a similar type of role which would affect my check results. However, as you can see, I don't solely rely on my check ability. As for my claim and credibility, if there are players that think what I've said up top does not make any sense, I'm pretty sure there are role(s) out there to confirm the alignment of dead players, especially in a game like this. We'll discuss more tomorrow. Great, now it's almost 1:30am and I have to wake up 6am for work. Good night. PS. ##Vote RebirthOfLeGenD | ||
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I see my role as an extremely high value target for the Mafia due to the nature of my checks. Obviously, if a Medic does not protect me in next Night phase, I will very likely die; If Mafia has a Role-Blocker, I'm pretty damn sure I would be role-blocked. If any of my checks were validated, my credibility will go through the roof and if Town can keep me alive, all I have to do is go through the players with checks. The game would be in the bag. Of course this would be the most ideal situation. However, I'm not naive enough to think that everything would go so smooth. The check on RoL was crucial, as it links a lot of broken pieces together, especially with the bizarre overall voting pattern on Day 1. If RoL resulted in innocent, I would not have come fourth; Since I have, I'm confident with my picks and read. Even if I'm wrong with one or two, or if I die, I'm sure the Town can pick up from there. | ||
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On June 30 2011 22:03 Caller wrote: RoL, you should claim. It doesn't matter what he claims, as in my eyes, whatever he claims would be a lie. It was rather fortunate for him that he actually said a Medic saved him last night. If he claims that he is a Veteran, than obviously one of us is lying (not like he isn't already). If I'm lying, there there will be no argument. But a Mafia Veteran? Good luck with that. Now, he claims that a Medic saved him. No, I don't need the Medic to come fourth to prove the claim if a Medic did save him, but there are a few questions everyone might want to ask themselves first. - RoL has not exactly shown the strongest Town-aligned play in this game, in fact, alot of his stuff falls into the grey area. The "oops, I missed my vote" move he pulled at the end raised eyebrows. Why would a Medic, among all players, would choose to protect him? - Caller has claimed Vigilante and shot GMarshal at the start (I'm still pondering this). deconduo has also claimed Vigilante. So if what RoL says is true, there has to a third Vigilante or similar type of role out there that has Night KP. What is the likelihood of this? - You combine the two variables up top; What is the likelihood that RoL's claim is true? - Furthermore, do I seem to be making up all this fuss just to paint RoL red? That's all I have to say. | ||
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On July 01 2011 00:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: But how could I explain that? Simple, VisceraEyes is the medic, who viewed me not killing him as being protown, and thus decided to protect me for not hammering him D1. He seemed really happy and eager to prove his townieness after being spared, and this is what I could come up with, to me its the only thing that makes sense to explain me surviving. I don't have time to respond in detail to your other post yet, but ROFL at this. You made me laugh out loud at work, and my co-workers were looking at me funny ;/ | ||
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On July 01 2011 02:36 Caller wrote: and i'm saying there's no need to do so because I have already proven that you are lying and are simply trying to flush out medics so that your buddies will be able to hit them tomorrow. It's already proven that you're mafia. Anyone that doesn't follow my logic needs to get their head checked. It was my logic! | ||
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Anyways, RoL has been trying to discredit me due to the fact that I claimed, repeatedly calling it a retarded move, even though I had already explained why. Claiming blindly is never a good thing, no matter what role, but a well timed claim definitely has its merits. If you guys reread my post, my claim was definitely not just about RoL, but the entire Mafia team. I've explained my every thought in detail, and how I came to those conclusions. If I had not claimed and just made the analysis, most likely a lot of arguing back and forth (including "those" that support RoL) would occur, resulting in unwanted chaos. RoL had tried to fight to survive, but as you can see among his arguments, holes were everywhere. My claim has the ability to seal the lynch much faster and rid of most of the useless crap. I can't lurk forever, especially when the number of players go down steadily. I saw this as a great opportunity to make a move, and I did. RoL also says that by me claiming, it ruins the ability to analyze the lynch. That is not true. LSB and ILJ haven't responded to my post of accusing them, yet they were quick to jump on the vote train without showing much. This might not necessarily mean anything, but it is still a point of interest for people to look at. Now I've said that unless BC is a Godfather or the sort, he is Town, based on my check and his posting behavior. BC also claims that he is a Lie Detector, and vouched for what I had claimed about my abilities are true. Now from a uninformed Townie point of view, these two claims won't mean jack unless publicly proven. That's understandable. However if one of us lies, both of us would be viewed as Mafia. That's two free kills. I doubt Mafia would be that gutsy. If there are any roles out there, still alive, that can reveal the alignment of a dead player, I suggest them use that ability on RebirthOfLeGenD right now, or during Night if it is a Night ability. That would be the best case scenario. Worst comes worst, if I can't prove my role besides BC words, does it really means I'm a fake? I've made all my arguments as transparent as possible. LSB, VisceraEyes, and ilovejonn are all strong Mafia candidates, do you think I would be lying just to further paint these people red? Next Night, even if I don't die, I expect to be role-blocked. Although the thought that no one has come forward claiming they have been blocked is making me skeptical whether this role exists in the game or not. Even if they do block me, they can't do it on consecutive Nights. Regardless, if I die, I expect the Town to be looking at LSB and VisceraEyes, especially LSB, he would be my next lynch candidate. If Medics decides to keep me going, I'll obviously try to provide the Town with whatever information I can get my hands on. Best case scenario: RoL's alignment is revealed and Town rolls from there. That's pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell. If any of my arguments look slightly scummy in any way or form, point it out and question me. I'll answer them. | ||
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On July 01 2011 04:22 Caller wrote: the timing of this post that completely ignore my remarks yet seem to acknowledge BC's for some reason is another thing. Clearly, Fishball was anticipating for BC to make this post before I jumped in. Now, how would he know BC would make that post? I know. Do you? I was typing that post when you guys were arguing. I didn't even see you turn around starting accusing BC, and now me. Timing of the post? What post? | ||
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I don't know what to make of Caller. Him shooting GMarshal was a total wtf moment, but a lot of his posting made me thought he was Town, probably just a bit insane. Now right after the lynch, he turned 180° faster than a bitch and her mood swings. | ||
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BC/Caller aside, none of you seems to address my posts at all. I've made my case clear, and asked if there is any slightest concern, say it. If you're avoiding to engage with me just because you think I might be trying to deceive you, that's not a very good way to play the game. That's just weak play. So Chaoser/VisceraEyes, the candidate you guys were so close to lynch; Even though he was the main scum candidate prior to Night 1, now all of sudden he is off the chart. I'm not even going to bring up the others here. Ignoring the fact that I might be a legit Cop, you guys rather spend 2-3 lynches on me, Caller, and BC just because you guys think "there must be a Mafia among them", or "All three of them are Mafia" etc.. Do you guys honestly think this is the best way to go? | ||
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On July 01 2011 05:40 citi.zen wrote: /confirmed I guess at least some will be cleared up after tonight. I need to read through this thread again, Caller's claim blew up my prior understanding of what is going on. All the I know, is that Caller was one of the strongest supporters for having RoL lynched. Then after RoL was lynched, and seeing BC's late post, Caller posted this: On July 01 2011 02:56 Caller wrote: shit fuck guys my bad, Fishball and BC are both mafia. I totally lied about my abilities. I have TWO shots, not one. I was waiting for somebody to bumble into the trap I had laid, but I didn't expect BC to do it. I'm going to prove it by shooting BC tonight. I honestly don't think Caller is Mafia, but I also don't think he would be the 3rd party as well, due to the tight setup of this game. His posts leaves me in awe. | ||
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On July 01 2011 05:56 Palmar wrote: Why did you claim btw Fish? Go re-read both my posts, especially the second one. | ||
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On July 01 2011 06:06 sandroba wrote: I think I made it pretty clear that I think VisceraEyes is scum. It made sense that RoL was also scum since he refused to lynch VisceraEyes, thus that made you DT for real. Caller also defended VisceraEyes and was the main reason he did not get lynched day1 AND has being claiming a fuckton of roles and getting away with it. I'm actually not even bothering to respond to all his shit since 90% of it are lies. I'm 100% confident he's either SK or Scum. As for LSB I'm not sure anymore, but I felt like he was town all game. ilovejonn I have no clue to be honest. Good, at least you realize the core logic. Now do you think it's a good idea to line Me/BC/Caller to be lynched, then come back to deal VisceraEyes? | ||
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On July 01 2011 05:54 Palmar wrote: You guys have three roleclaims in between you, some of you are definitely scum, so my opinion is to hang or kill you all. My god, what kind of logic is this. Possible? Yes. But most definitely that you want to see all of us dead? There is a reason why I considered role checking you last night. On July 01 2011 05:54 Palmar wrote: I consider the only goal for me at this point is to make sure town doesn't get sidetracked and keeps it's focus on killing the three of you, and correctly responds to any new claims or information that might present itself. Quote for display. I have no further comments since you've made this statement clear and I've already said my share. | ||
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Oh hey, there you are. Besides citi.zen who replaced Radfield. We have three people that have not posted anything regarding any of the discussions and events that happened in the past 14 hours. Two of them voted but did not say anything of value. One of them did not vote but just appeared, whom I'm quoting right now. Patterns patterns. Calm before the storm? Try and kill me already. | ||
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On July 01 2011 12:11 ilovejonn wrote: but honestly skipped a few of the last few pages because it was just Caller and Fishball shouting at each other. You could have made a far better reason than that for "skipping the last few pages". Me and Caller shouting at each other? I would be surprised if anyone were to share your views. Caller and BC, maybe, but Caller and me? We didn't even have more than a couple posts directed at each other. Caller is just abrasive with his posts overall, and has been the majority of the game. | ||
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On July 01 2011 17:29 citi.zen wrote: My current impression is that Fishball is playing the most pro-town game I have ever seen out of him. He is the only one trying to contribute and think past the Caller/BC stuff. This game he is even going through the troouble of making real behavior analysis posts. This is milas away from the red FB who lives (and dies) by Ace's rule of "give the town nothing" and snaps at any questioning. If FB turns out to be red in this game I will be shocked (and very impressed). As it happens, I also like Fishball's scum list of VisceraEyes, LSB and ilovejonn. I would add sandroba and Kurumi to it - both have done little more but spam filler posts since the start of the game. BC could well be red/GF. Think about the people he chose to "test": both had claimed publicly, and a red BC would know they are town aligned. Unlike Fishball's DT claim, BC's "checks" wre not meant to add any new information, making this a bizarre role claim, almost like he wanted to start with the credibility then set himself up for better stories in the future. Caller is Caller. It would not be unlike him to lie as town, or change his lies around 100000x as mafia. At this point he either has another bullet or he does not. We'll find out soon enough. Sometimes I think it's better to not spill out everything and strike them when they least expect it. Those that has the ability to realize the flaws would have realized it already. | ||
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On July 02 2011 02:29 ilovejonn wrote: Ah yes, sorry, I was really sleepy. I get you and BC mixed up cuz you both have a scout icon lol. Despite "BloodyC0bbler" is 5 characters longer than "Fishball", has two capital letters and a number, somehow you manage to just ignore our names and only eye the icon which is just 2mm adjacent to it. This isn't really helping your case, regardless of the legitimacy of your explanation. If this was true, I wonder how many other thoughts that have went through your head were based on the wrong subject. ...and I said you were a smart player. Something has to give. | ||
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Take everything on that page with a grain of salt, but one thing is for certain; That's right Mafia, kill me before I confirm everyone. | ||
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 Yes, that is me. | ||
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Do you know what it's like to have a bamboo stick up your ass, left to die and then devoured by wild beasts? I know how it feels, first hand. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://yellowteacup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/fishball-chinatown.jpg) | ||
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That would take forever, especially with just limited discussion the past few days already ;o | ||
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On July 08 2011 12:07 Chezinu wrote: liar list: BC Caller LSB Kurumi Truth teller list: Chezinu The Truth beyond the Truth: Fishball | ||
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citi.zen, I had my faith in you. Knew you could pull this off and the results did not disappoint. LOL. | ||
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On July 09 2011 12:34 JeeJee wrote: I fucking suck, if only it clicked earlier. Ace you're a cruel being for suggesting I sub in here :< I did not know what I was getting myself into gg You did well, and played in a calmly manner. Can't really think of what else you could have said or brought up. Too bad you had no audience. | ||
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Game starts, GM posts his grand plan. I frown and think, "WTF is this shit?". GCQ immediately quotes GM's plan and said "Did you not want to post that if you rolled mafia?". To which I promptly said, On June 25 2011 13:27 Fishball wrote: Mafia list: 1. GCQ 2. GMarshal 3. ??? 4. ??? To my amusement, both of them died on Night 0. I assumed the worst and that all 4 Mafia remained. Night 1, I questioned why no one has claimed being role blocked yet. I swear this role would have existed in Ace's game, base on what I know of Ace and what he had commented in other threads, (just like how much he dislikes Bus Drivers in his games). It would all make sense if the Role Blocker had died Night 0. Early on, most activity were people discussing GM's plan and the lynches for Day 1. I had a gut feeling people were playing into the hands of Mafia and were going in the wrong direction, so I questioned this. On June 26 2011 05:41 Fishball wrote: Why are we discussing Day 1 lynch so much for now? It's a Night 0 start, and a lot can develop over to Day 1. GCQ and deconduo both jumped on my comment quickly, but deconduo's tone was much stronger. All of you already know what had developed after that, and I had explained most of my part in the game during my claim. One thing I left out is that I was to make deconduo to look like a fool as much as possible, whether he was able to kill me or not. Although I did not expect him to be a Vigilante in the first place, it surprised me even more that he managed to get himself mod-killed, to which I can only say lol, but it resulted in the better scenario for Town; The Cop lives and was able to make his move. It was true that there were 2-3 days which I was extremely busy at work early in the game. Also, I did not want to stick my head out so early just to question GM's plan in detail, especially with the sensitive role I have. Of course deconduo would not have been able to comprehend that. When it was time to get ready for Night 1, I had to do an extremely quick crunch through the thread during my lunch break to choose who to check. It boiled down to Palmar/RoL/ilovejonn. Palmar's posts has been all over the place since the beginning. From my perspective, some of his posts were either lies or bad logic, but after reading carefully, I noticed some comments he made, no Mafia would have made them so I took him off my little list. The rest is history. As fortunate that I was able to live through deconduo's death threat, it was unfortunate that GCQ was the Medic. Later knowing that Mafia had a role to check the roles of dead players, it only makes sense that Mafia would take up the odds to shoot me on Night 2. Regardless, I do not regret making that claim; I would not have let RoL lived or talked his way out. I want him lynched as quick as possible, and I was able to achieve that. I was to check ilovejonn on Night 2, and that would have cleared him if I had lived; If I had lived... of course this would be a different story, but there are no if's. It did perplex me and Ace, when Ace told me that LSB had decided to protect BC on Night 0, even though BC had not done anything. LSB later claimed he protected BC just because he was the "biggest name". lolwut? For the record and for the third time, I would have shot LSB after he had made his comment on me and deconduo.+ Show Spoiler + On June 28 2011 14:27 Fishball wrote: Ah yes, LSB logic. Oh, how I miss it. 1. If deconduo decides not to shoot me, that doesn't necessarily prove anything. It can be a ploy, or it can a be a genuine decision. 2. If we both die, that also doesn't proves anything. What is this "story" that your dreamt about?. deconduo thinks I'm green, but wants to kill me because he is annoyed. If I'm Mafia and I try to take him out with me, how would this story make sense? What would be the point for Mafia to take him out if I were for sure to die? I'm sure there are better targets out there. 3. Square one? If that is what you think, then you have already written me off, as I have no use to the Town at all; What do you take me for, a disposable chess piece? I don't even know what to say. WTF is this shit? This is even worse than deconduo. If I were a Dayvig, I'd instant kill you now. BC was trying to support my claim with his own, but that move made my eyes go round. Besides the credibility of a role called "Lie Detector", his claim only drew unnecessary and unwanted suspicion onto my claim, and his, which caused Caller to shoot him. It would be best if he was able to play it out normally, as his logical self. I totally did not expect this from him. Caller, this post pretty much sums up my thoughts on him. On July 01 2011 05:47 Fishball wrote: I honestly don't think Caller is Mafia, but I also don't think he would be the 3rd party as well, due to the tight setup of this game. His posts leaves me in awe. These three has almost been echoing each other all game. On July 01 2011 05:42 Fishball wrote: sandroba, Palmar, Kurumi. You three are like triplets. Looking back, it's interesting to notice that the biggest supporters of "Lynch-the-DT-claimer-no-matter-what" plan, were GM, Radfield, and RoL, all whom are Mafia. Yeah~ Lynch the DT! | ||
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I know. You missed the part where I said: On July 10 2011 08:32 Fishball wrote: It did perplex me and Ace, when Ace told me that LSB had decided to protect BC on Night 0, even though BC had not done anything. LSB later claimed he protected BC just because he was the "biggest name". lolwut? Just saying if LSB hadn't wasted his protection, and was able to use it to save me, I would have been impressed. | ||
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On July 10 2011 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Actually, this was part of our plan. We were going to roleblock+kill people for 2 nights so that we hid the roleblock from being shown, then when we actually roleblocked someone they would look suspicious claiming RB on D3 or something since no one had claimed previously. On top of that we were also a bit worried of roles that activate upon being killed, so we figured two birds, one stone. Namely Zombies/Virgins/NRA member, etc. The problem with that was that our roleblocker died N0 -_- I had thought of that plan, because if I were Mafia, I would have likely done the same. I was actually more concerned of getting Role Blocked than dying on Night 2. We can all agree that Caller is crazy ;/ | ||
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On July 10 2011 09:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I also still think the DT claim was poorly played. I think you should of been able to push a case on me without claiming, and claiming puts the town in an awkward position assuming there is no flips. Even if the idea was mafia supported, it was still a valid strategy. I admit the reason we also pushed it as the smart play was because while theoretically the town should lynch the DT first in that scenario, we knew SAYING it should happen and actually making it happen would be hard, since everyone wants to trust blue roles and not just haphazardly throw them away. On the flip side of that, if one of us decided to claim DT later on we could force the town to lean to not killing us, since I knew they wouldn't want to anyway. Policy lynching DT's is always a tough sell, and I figured we should establish the need and reasoning behind how DT's should play earlier on. It would allow us to kill you if we notice what you are doing, while hopefully keeping the town off our asses. Even though there are ways we can use a DT policy lynch to our advantage as mafia, to deny the danger of a DT claim to the longevity of the town would be foolish. Think about if we fake claimed with the same case as you, it wouldn't be hard to sell it up the river for the next few nights, especially if we KNEW we killed one DT already. Like I said before, blindly claiming is never good, no matter what role, but this is not even close to that. There are a lot of elements that I factor in before claiming. How long would I be able to lay low before drawing too much negative attention? How likely can I get you lynched if I had not claimed? How much more effort do I have to do put in to get you lynched, even if I can get you lynched? How likely will a receive protection if I had not claimed? Is it likely that I would receive protection if I had claimed? How much time do I have in real life to deal with this? Would Town fair well if I had died? What audience am I facing? Is RoL ghey? etc. etc.. Regardless, I planned it out, achieved my goal, got you lynched in record time; I can't really ask for more. Of course, if I had known a Medic was dead and the Mafia knows a Medic is dead and LSB already blew his, I probably would have acted differently, but that also means I would be cheating. Results speaks louder than hypothetical scenarios. I'd do it again in this game if you had ask me. In a new game however, who knows? The variables changes, my answer changes, as well as my decisions. | ||
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On July 10 2011 10:10 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I really think I could of fought off your accusation if I played it a bit better. Namely attacking everything you said, your mild analysis of me, your claim, and not strayed off into what the fuck caller might be thinking. The biggest issue I faced was starting to argue when I was already like 2 votes away from my lynch. Your case was alright, but basically just came down to "I checked rol." and whether or not the veracity of your claim could stand up to scrutiny, which if I played it right, it shouldn't have. That's my opinion though, while I may not have lived and I might have still gotten lynched it definitely wouldn't of happened in such a quick pace. I am surprised at how quickly the town just decided to rape me, it was a bit disappointing considering how frail I felt your case was. So we're talking about my case against you now? Like I said many times, even to myself. No "if's". "Frail case" it may be, but this "frail case" was convincing to most, and this "frail case" achieved it's goal. You just can't argue about that. If you're really surprised how quickly the Town jumped on the wagon, then you're really missing a lot of things. No matter how legit your reasoning might be, to yourself (like the missing last vote incident), it does not matter. You were suspected; Not just by me, but by others as well. Why would I check you if I had not suspected you? All I had to do was to confirm it in public. From a psychological stand point, this "confirmation" acts like an exclamation mark. It gives them the notion of, "Fuck yeah, let's do this". Town at that point cannot know for sure whether I'm Mafia or Town, but they were all willing to hop on my wagon to run you over. If that wasn't enough, your scrambled defensive posts only supported my accusations even more. Re-read them from a blind unknowing Townie point of view, and you will see why (or I hope you would). Hell, you can even ask the others in the thread. | ||
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On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Fishball, I am fairly good at looking at a situation from an unbiased standpoint. When I say your case against me was pretty much "lol I checked him" I assure you, it was. And based on what, do you that think you're fairly good at looking at a situation from an unbiased standpoint, and when you say my case against you was pretty much "lol I checked him", that you can assure me, it was? lol. On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: The people who suspected me were you, and if you want to count caller shouting randomly how I slipped as him suspecting me, then I guess you can count him too. I didn't see anyone else really suspecting me, even if my play was sloppy. This is what I found within 2 minutes of searching. Feel free to search the rest of the 60 pages if you will. Bottom line is, does it matter if I was the only one on you? People were convinced. How hard is it to understand? + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2011 23:05 Caller wrote: more to come when I feel like it RoL just scumslipped On June 30 2011 03:52 Caller wrote: by the way, Ace is probably laughing his ass off that a combination of my stupidity + other stupid townies is going to get town in a circlejerk of lynching ourselves while mafia trollololol in the background. I see you there, RoL. On June 30 2011 23:13 LSB wrote: I support this, for my own reasons. Oh and ##Vote: RebirthofLegend On June 30 2011 23:25 ilovejonn wrote: ##Vote: RebirthofLegend I was already suspicious of him from the vote switch and excuse, + his hit claim right after Night post seems to just be causing confusion for the town. And a non-randomly shouting version of Caller: + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2011 00:48 Caller wrote: RoL, stop dodging and claim. You're trying to pull a busdrove onto a dead guy as an insane DT. So let's take your hypothetical here. That I'm actually a 3rd party. Firstly this means through your inference that you "know" I'm not mafia. That's a scumslip. But let's say its not strong enough. If I were 3rd party, would I claim that I'm a killing role? Would I also say I have one bullet, and then proceed to shoot somebody else? Let's think about it: In a game of this size, reasonably there would be 1 or 2 Vigilantes at the most. Deconduo was a vigilante. I can confirm this because I was also a vigilante and he said things that only a vigilante in this game would know. Namely, we both only have one bullet, and some other things. So there are no more vigilantes in this game. I shot GMarshal. There was only one other hit Night 0. It must have been the mafia hit, because I would've gotten my shot refunded otherwise (hint: I didn't.) By deduction, since a 3rd party role wants to kill people, the fact that nobody else died means that either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party. You claimed that you were shot last night, and Scamp also died. Therefore, you say there were two hits. I did not shoot, because I only had one bullet that was used Night 0. If I was 3rd party, why would I endanger myself by shooting? I'd prove myself to either be 3rd party or a liar, both of which are lynchworthy. As I've already shown, either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party as seen in night 0. There is no reason for me, if I were 3rd party, to trap myself in this situation, especially by doing what I did. If town wouldn't kill a 3rd party in that situation, mafia would. Basically, unless you're saying I'm violating the "play-to-win" rule, and saying I deserve to be modkilled, you're full of shit and also a liar. You didn't take a hit last night, and this was clearly planned ahead of time (as you'll see below). I'm now utterly convinced that Fishball is legit. When I claimed, this was your reaction: Why the sudden about face? Was it because this was a plan that you created to get town to waste a lynch on me? Good try, but now you're in the shithole. Also, I remember you pulling a similar stunt back a long, long time ago. This game, in fact: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83951¤tpage=30#594 . Turned out you were mafia that game. ##Vote: RebirthofLegend On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I still think you played it out wrong, even if it worked for a bit. You can keep your opinions to yourself if I haven't made that point clear already. I've explained in detail to you with actual facts and results, and that I clearly don't agree with you. No, I don't expect your to agree with me, but you shouldn't expect your rant will be convincing me or anyone else either. Or are you like L, who likes to live in his own world with his own logic? On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: And by a bit, I mean until you, BC, and caller proceeded to die and confuse the town which all half stemmed from your DT claim. It was BC's lie as a vanilla Townie that drew further suspicion on me, stemming Caller to think that me and BC were Mafia. Did you not read the thread at all? Even citi.zen has pointed that out. To further elaborate, regardless of how "bad" BC's lie was, him, as a vanilla Townie, without full knowledge of my alignment, was convinced enough by my claim to lie for me. You can down play me all you want with your blanket statement, but all that supports your claim is you and your own words. On July 10 2011 12:16 Ace wrote: LSB suspected you too, thats how you got shot/mimiced that night  I left that point out on purpose. He is clearly upset and is just tunneling me now. Damn I'm good at this. Someone give me a Village Idiot role already. Logic is nothing in front of a broken ego. | ||
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On July 10 2011 17:05 Palmar wrote: Well, yeah, I could've gotten myself lynched and bought you another night, that's what I was saying. Then you guys could've lynched rol the next night, and you had another investigation. You could have? Sure... Fuck this, I'll bite. Look, I was to set to make a move that Night. There is no way in hell, after me putting RoL on the chopping block, you can somehow overthrow my claim and replace him with your head. Even if you had publicly claimed Virgin, there will be people questioning the legitimacy of your claim, and why should we lynch a greater variable (you), in place of a likely scum (RoL). I had aimed to rid of RoL swiftly. Do you think I would have allowed RoL to live possibly another 120 hours to "defend" himself? Also, it's not like I know there is a Virgin in the game. If you really wanted to buy time for Town, the only way I see it is to publicly claim Day 1, make a solid case and offer yourself to be lynched. On July 10 2011 17:07 Palmar wrote: Also, I think that everyone suspected RoL at the time Fishball, you probably could've got the lynch done traditionally I've at least answered to this a handful of times, during the game and post game. I would have like to speak my mind here, but that would not be very nice. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On July 10 2011 19:56 Radfield wrote: Actually, I spent several posts arguing that the dt should NOT be lynched first, and maybe not lynched at all. I don't think I actually posted after your claim as I went MIA. I know you didn't post much after the first few days. I was mainly talking about the pre-Night 0 discussion. My comment on you was mainly based on this quote: On June 25 2011 17:58 Radfield wrote: Fully agree with GMarshal. The easiest way to deal with dt claims is simply to lynch both parties as otherwise there is no accountability for the dt. A one for one trade is a good trade for town, but frankly this means that dts should not be claiming their results in thread unless absolutely necessary, and should only do so if they feel trading their life for the mafia players life is worth it. Preferably they simply build a good case and push for a lynch. From this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 25 2011 17:58 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 25 2011 13:14 GMarshal wrote: Well, I'm bored, so its time for me to set out in my quest to spark discussion. ^_^ First of all, we need to establish two policies now, before they come back to bite us in the ass. 1.) We disbelieve all roleclaims. The game is no flip, so any claims are completely unconformable! I for one will ignore all claims. Since we can't prove them, then they have no bearing, ignore *all* claims. 2.) Since there is no flip there is no way to confirm dts. So we hang any dt who claims to have found mafia and then we lynch their claimed check. No questions asked, this is a good trade for the town 1:1 and a terrible trade for mafia. With this policy we keep the mafia from fake claiming to fuck with us. I also have a lynch set out for day 1. I propose we lynch or shoot Chezinu. Now I <3 chez, he is a hilarious guy, but his post provide absolutely no bearing on his alignment! He plays super troll/scummy every game for fun, we have no way to analyze him, and I don't want to have to deal with him lategame and try to essentially guess his alignment. If we take him out early he won't be a problem later. Alternatively he could have a change of heart and post normally, but I don't see that happening. Kurumi, a message to you. If you play the way you played XL I will personally make sure you die, post good, decent posts that are the proper length, with analysis, or we'll have no choice but to kill you. Random FoS' are not acceptable, trolling and random tunneling is not acceptable, I won't stand for it. Also this is a majority lynch game. This means we need to agree on who to hang. To ensure activity I would like to have two or three people to form a voting platform with me so we can properly pressure people, Ace made an excellent point in PYP:I post game write up, which was that votes without backing give no pressure, hence we need to bring people up to at least L-3 to force activity and/or panic out of them. Anyone up to joining my platform for pressuring inactives/scum? Come on people, more time to discuss is a benefit, we should be taking advantage of these hours to figure out what we are doing going into night 0/day 1. So thoughts, plans, burning desires? ~The Reaper I've been thinking about the exact same things for the last two days Anyways, I agree with parts of your post, and disagree with others. First, I agree with a day one policy lynch of sorts, but certainly not a policy lynch of Chez, nor any other specific player. Chez is very good at this game(pegged my BP role last game based off a single day of posting) and it seems he's not playing brown this game anyways Typically one's goal for a Day 1 Lynch is not necessarily to find scum, but rather to get everyone's opinion and vote down on paper. However, the no-flip aspect of the game means mafia need not fear pushing a green townie to their death, as we will not be able to ascertain alignment anyways, hence mafia will likely be able to blend into a lynch much easier than normal. Second, the Majority lynch aspect makes pulling off a successful lynch much more difficult than normal, and can very likely lead to a no-lynch on Day 1. For these reasons I think we should consider an inactivity/lurker lynch for Day 1. However, the real reason we need to consider a Day 1 lurker lynch is this: The only way we can scum hunt in this game is through post-analysis, as it will be next to impossible to do vote analysis, and we cannot rely on investigative results at all(as Gmarshal pointed out). We need to eliminate lurkers and keep the active players around, as that allows us to effectively winnow through posts and find the mafia. Obviously this is not a policy to be carried past Day 1, as I feel an effective case(read: a majority case) will be able to be presented by Day 2. But for now, getting rid of non-posters is a good use of our lynch. In the event that all 16 players are active and contributing, a no-lynch is a viable option. Keep in mind that with a KP of only 1, we have a ton of time in this game, and can afford either a no-lynch or a lurker lynch on Day 1. Pro's: * Clears out lurkers, allowing high-post players to stay around, which in turn gives more content to work with * Forces mafia to be active in order to stay alive Con's * Gives mafia an even easier place to hide due to the semi-policy lynch Either way, I think we all need to realize that our only two likely options on Day 1 are No-lynch or Lurker-lynch, as getting a majority to vote for an active poster will be unlikely. It will be even more unlikely to lynch an active mafia poster, as there will be three other players defending and redirecting. Which means if we do actually lynch an active poster Day 1, it will almost surely be an active townie. Some important points on voting: There can be absolutely no throwing around of random votes, and no adding on of a ton of suspects. We need our Day cycles to be clear and focused, with only several candidates up for discussion. If no consensus can be reached on those few targets, then a no-lynch is probably ok. Remember, we have lots of time and no-flip, so lynching someone without a good case is extremely weak in this set-up. Anyone who flops a vote down on someone and then disappears for the rest of the cycle should be vig-juice. Everyone NEEDS to be committed to pushing their target and/or being willing to switch their vote as new info comes in. In addition, everyone should be committing to at least attempt to be around for the deadline in case addition votes are needed. Majority voting takes wayyy more effort than a standard leader-gets-lynched voting set-up. Regarding Claims: Fully agree with GMarshal. The easiest way to deal with dt claims is simply to lynch both parties as otherwise there is no accountability for the dt. A one for one trade is a good trade for town, but frankly this means that dts should not be claiming their results in thread unless absolutely necessary, and should only do so if they feel trading their life for the mafia players life is worth it. Preferably they simply build a good case and push for a lynch. This basically goes for all town investigative roles(or other) that they should not be claiming results in thread. Even if you are a list-check dt(unlikely), don't bother claiming in thread, since there is no way to verify that you are legit. The chances of bogus mafia claims are far higher in this setup, as they cant be disproven through a simple lynch. Vigs can probably feel free to claim their kill, but only if there are two kills(or more) on the board. LIkewise vets and medic-recipients can claim their hits, but again only if there is a kill missing. This set-up encourages mafia interferance like crazy, so anything we can do to minimize it is a must. Regarding Roles: Coroner: It's likely we have some kind of coroner role in the game(reveals the flip), but we can't rely on it. In the event that we do however, it's extremely important for the coroner to save his flip for when a dt or some other comfirmable scenario presents itself. For instance, if a dt claims Qatol is red, and we lynch Qatol, the coroner should use his ability to show that Qatol was indeed red so that we can ascertain the alignment of the dt. A coroner saving his power also limits the ability of mafia to fake claim, as their fake claims can be outted. There is a question in my mind that it may make sense for the coroner(s) to roleclaim immediately, but I haven't thought enough about it. Feel free to weigh in on it though. Vigilante: Please please please vigs target inactives. We need this game to be as active as possible, so it is essential that you use your hits to kill off non-posting players. The only other possible time to shoot would be to clear up claims, but that is probably less effective than lynching. Remember, we have tons of time this game, and only 1 player dies per night, so you can always wait another night to gather more info before shooting. Keep in mind that shooting brings us closer to LYLO, and that you don't even get the results of your shot(the most satisfying part )The rest of the roles don't really matter, and with only 1 KP we probably don't have alot of vets or medics anyways. As a bonus tidbit of info: Assuming two deaths per cycle(One Lynch, One night kill, no other KP), LYLO is day 4. If we decide to no-lynch today, that pushes LYLO back to Day 5. If you had changed your stance after that, I must confess I had not read it or missed it. I literally ignored most of the "DT lynch" discussions after glancing through a couple pages. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
Fixed. *cough* Looking back, it's interesting to notice that the biggest supporters of "Lynch-the-DT-claimer-no-matter-what" plan, were GM, Radfield (although he changed his stance later), and RoL, all whom are Mafia. | ||
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