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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:27 Ace wrote: Everyone should have gotten a role PM. If you didn't send myself or YM a PM asap. Game *officially* starts in 23.5 hours, but you can start discussing things now. REMEMBER WE START AT NIGHT 0! Good Luck! Can't we just start the blood shed now. This is boring. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I take it from the silence that we are all ok with lynching Chez then, right? No one seems to be complaining... And my policies are now accepted by all, right? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:35 GMarshal wrote: Why does no one comment on my post? I take it from the silence that we are all ok with lynching Chez then, right? No one seems to be complaining... And my policies are now accepted by all, right? I will defend chezinu's right to live until the end of days. Conversley, I will support any lynch initiative on bloody_c0bbler. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Chezinu
United States7464 Posts
"Alternatively he could have a change of heart and post normally, but I don't see that happening." As a matter of fact, it is happening! Ver is my witness, but he is not playing! Argh! After the last game I played, I told Ver that I would play a serious game. Also, since there are no flips -- I can not afford to act crazy because that will just confuse the town. My death can't explain anything. So, I will avoid riddles and equivocal communication. If town does decide to lynch me, I will most likely play crazy in more games to come. Last time I attempted to play the sane game, I was shot on day 1. That game I decided to play normally, because I was tried of trolling (trolled the two games prior -- trolling is a tiring task). There is no pms this game -- more the reason for me to play sane. I cannot have any hidden agendas. So, that leaves me with the option of analyzing scum in the open -- which i typically never do. Things I noticed about my scum analysis abilities: I find I typically good at analyzing people in the shadows where there isn't much spotlight on them. A flaw I have is that I have trouble discriminating people with blues roles vs being red. I find I can spot non-roles vs roles rather easily. However, this game we don't know the roles nor how many, Everyone could have a role. But I know this isn't true. Of course, GM will say to ignore such matters. But for me roles have major impact on playing style, thus cannot be neglected in analysis. Ever hear of a role schema? If someone is given a role -- they will play that role. A clever player will try to pretend to be another role.. but let's hope we can see through such attempts. No flips = DO NOT BE BROWN. In this game, everyone must be clear and straightforward. We must avoid typical scum hunting tatics. Do Not Lie to gain information. Do Not Lie to get someone to react in the thread. Do Not act crazy. Answer all questions directly. If you do not want to reveal information, then state that you don't feel comfortable providing such information. Do not ignore people. Not in this setup. This is a new game. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:35 GMarshal wrote: Why does no one comment on my post? I take it from the silence that we are all ok with lynching Chez then, right? No one seems to be complaining... And my policies are now accepted by all, right? Sure, I have one major problem that leaps out immediately from your policies. Your policy number one is to ignore all role claims. Your policy number two is based on specifically NOT ignoring a role claim. Wuddup wit dat? In a more general sense, I have a problem with your policy of having policies. I find policies restrictive and in my experience different situations require situational judgement. If you want to stress that role claims are very unreliable in this setup and we should be highly skeptical of them, I approve. If you want to make a "policy" that we all have to ignore them, I disapprove. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I'll take you at your promise to provide content-full/non-troll posts and retract my call for your policy lynch. I fully agree with your do not lie policy. What do you think about the other factors in this setup? Notably the majority lynch clause? Either way I'm sure this will be fun. ^_^ Off to sleep now, see you all in the morning. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7464 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:35 GMarshal wrote: Why does no one comment on my post? I take it from the silence that we are all ok with lynching Chez then, right? No one seems to be complaining... And my policies are now accepted by all, right? The policy is unacceptable. GMarshal, I know this question may seem to be irrelevant, but I will explain why I asked this question after you have answered it. What is your favorite mafia moment? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:14 GMarshal wrote: Well, I'm bored, so its time for me to set out in my quest to spark discussion. ^_^ First of all, we need to establish two policies now, before they come back to bite us in the ass. 1.) We disbelieve all roleclaims. The game is no flip, so any claims are completely unconformable! I for one will ignore all claims. Since we can't prove them, then they have no bearing, ignore *all* claims. 2.) Since there is no flip there is no way to confirm dts. So we hang any dt who claims to have found mafia and then we lynch their claimed check. No questions asked, this is a good trade for the town 1:1 and a terrible trade for mafia. With this policy we keep the mafia from fake claiming to fuck with us. I also have a lynch set out for day 1. I propose we lynch or shoot Chezinu. Now I <3 chez, he is a hilarious guy, but his post provide absolutely no bearing on his alignment! He plays super troll/scummy every game for fun, we have no way to analyze him, and I don't want to have to deal with him lategame and try to essentially guess his alignment. If we take him out early he won't be a problem later. Alternatively he could have a change of heart and post normally, but I don't see that happening. Kurumi, a message to you. If you play the way you played XL I will personally make sure you die, post good, decent posts that are the proper length, with analysis, or we'll have no choice but to kill you. Random FoS' are not acceptable, trolling and random tunneling is not acceptable, I won't stand for it. Also this is a majority lynch game. This means we need to agree on who to hang. To ensure activity I would like to have two or three people to form a voting platform with me so we can properly pressure people, Ace made an excellent point in PYP:I post game write up, which was that votes without backing give no pressure, hence we need to bring people up to at least L-3 to force activity and/or panic out of them. Anyone up to joining my platform for pressuring inactives/scum? Come on people, more time to discuss is a benefit, we should be taking advantage of these hours to figure out what we are doing going into night 0/day 1. So thoughts, plans, burning desires? ~The Reaper I've been thinking about the exact same things for the last two days  Anyways, I agree with parts of your post, and disagree with others. First, I agree with a day one policy lynch of sorts, but certainly not a policy lynch of Chez, nor any other specific player. Chez is very good at this game(pegged my BP role last game based off a single day of posting) and it seems he's not playing brown this game anyways Typically one's goal for a Day 1 Lynch is not necessarily to find scum, but rather to get everyone's opinion and vote down on paper. However, the no-flip aspect of the game means mafia need not fear pushing a green townie to their death, as we will not be able to ascertain alignment anyways, hence mafia will likely be able to blend into a lynch much easier than normal. Second, the Majority lynch aspect makes pulling off a successful lynch much more difficult than normal, and can very likely lead to a no-lynch on Day 1. For these reasons I think we should consider an inactivity/lurker lynch for Day 1. However, the real reason we need to consider a Day 1 lurker lynch is this: The only way we can scum hunt in this game is through post-analysis, as it will be next to impossible to do vote analysis, and we cannot rely on investigative results at all(as Gmarshal pointed out). We need to eliminate lurkers and keep the active players around, as that allows us to effectively winnow through posts and find the mafia. Obviously this is not a policy to be carried past Day 1, as I feel an effective case(read: a majority case) will be able to be presented by Day 2. But for now, getting rid of non-posters is a good use of our lynch. In the event that all 16 players are active and contributing, a no-lynch is a viable option. Keep in mind that with a KP of only 1, we have a ton of time in this game, and can afford either a no-lynch or a lurker lynch on Day 1. Pro's: * Clears out lurkers, allowing high-post players to stay around, which in turn gives more content to work with * Forces mafia to be active in order to stay alive Con's * Gives mafia an even easier place to hide due to the semi-policy lynch Either way, I think we all need to realize that our only two likely options on Day 1 are No-lynch or Lurker-lynch, as getting a majority to vote for an active poster will be unlikely. It will be even more unlikely to lynch an active mafia poster, as there will be three other players defending and redirecting. Which means if we do actually lynch an active poster Day 1, it will almost surely be an active townie. Some important points on voting: There can be absolutely no throwing around of random votes, and no adding on of a ton of suspects. We need our Day cycles to be clear and focused, with only several candidates up for discussion. If no consensus can be reached on those few targets, then a no-lynch is probably ok. Remember, we have lots of time and no-flip, so lynching someone without a good case is extremely weak in this set-up. Anyone who flops a vote down on someone and then disappears for the rest of the cycle should be vig-juice. Everyone NEEDS to be committed to pushing their target and/or being willing to switch their vote as new info comes in. In addition, everyone should be committing to at least attempt to be around for the deadline in case addition votes are needed. Majority voting takes wayyy more effort than a standard leader-gets-lynched voting set-up. Regarding Claims: Fully agree with GMarshal. The easiest way to deal with dt claims is simply to lynch both parties as otherwise there is no accountability for the dt. A one for one trade is a good trade for town, but frankly this means that dts should not be claiming their results in thread unless absolutely necessary, and should only do so if they feel trading their life for the mafia players life is worth it. Preferably they simply build a good case and push for a lynch. This basically goes for all town investigative roles(or other) that they should not be claiming results in thread. Even if you are a list-check dt(unlikely), don't bother claiming in thread, since there is no way to verify that you are legit. The chances of bogus mafia claims are far higher in this setup, as they cant be disproven through a simple lynch. Vigs can probably feel free to claim their kill, but only if there are two kills(or more) on the board. LIkewise vets and medic-recipients can claim their hits, but again only if there is a kill missing. This set-up encourages mafia interferance like crazy, so anything we can do to minimize it is a must. Regarding Roles: Coroner: It's likely we have some kind of coroner role in the game(reveals the flip), but we can't rely on it. In the event that we do however, it's extremely important for the coroner to save his flip for when a dt or some other comfirmable scenario presents itself. For instance, if a dt claims Qatol is red, and we lynch Qatol, the coroner should use his ability to show that Qatol was indeed red so that we can ascertain the alignment of the dt. A coroner saving his power also limits the ability of mafia to fake claim, as their fake claims can be outted. There is a question in my mind that it may make sense for the coroner(s) to roleclaim immediately, but I haven't thought enough about it. Feel free to weigh in on it though. Vigilante: Please please please vigs target inactives. We need this game to be as active as possible, so it is essential that you use your hits to kill off non-posting players. The only other possible time to shoot would be to clear up claims, but that is probably less effective than lynching. Remember, we have tons of time this game, and only 1 player dies per night, so you can always wait another night to gather more info before shooting. Keep in mind that shooting brings us closer to LYLO, and that you don't even get the results of your shot(the most satisfying part )The rest of the roles don't really matter, and with only 1 KP we probably don't have alot of vets or medics anyways. As a bonus tidbit of info: Assuming two deaths per cycle(One Lynch, One night kill, no other KP), LYLO is day 4. If we decide to no-lynch today, that pushes LYLO back to Day 5. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Ok so now down to business, I thought chezinu was insane, what's up with the straight foward post? I'm suspicious and dissapointed at the same time. | ||
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
I must disagree with a lot of what Radfield says. It really seems like he wants to steer us to a no-lynch. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7464 Posts
On June 25 2011 19:04 sandroba wrote: Shit, I'm so excited for this game, even though this is pretty much going to be impossible. I've thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that mafia's optimal strat is going to be defending their team without fear, since no flips mean they keep hidden even after a scum lynch. Regarding the lynch, it's pretty obvious that we should try to agree on a lynch every day cycle, as the lynch is town kp and should not be wasted. A no lynch day is not acceptable at all and people that refuse to make a stand should be persecuted. About claims: you should only claim if you are about to get lynched or if you found enough mafia to make it worth it. I want to propose that anyone that claims without a damn good reason should be insta-lynched. This setup is even worse than normal, mafia has even a better edge on information, so if you claim you better have a pretty good reason. Also mafia can probably get away with bulshit claims without any repercusions so just don't fucking claim. Ok so now down to business, I thought chezinu was insane, what's up with the straight foward post? I'm suspicious and dissapointed at the same time. Reasons for saneness as i stated earlier:This is not your typical game, there are no pms, there are no-flips, and Ver was disappointed that I'm not living up to my full potential. Your disappointed suspicious of me: Why the soft-accusation of me being suspicious? You disappointed that you can't accuse me as mafia for an easy lynch? Why so angry? The curse words in your post makes you sound angry, are you? What is your impression of GM? | ||
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Chezinu
United States7464 Posts
On June 25 2011 19:12 Scamp wrote: /Confirm I must disagree with a lot of what Radfield says. It really seems like he wants to steer us to a no-lynch. Ok, here is the plan. Me, you, and Legendary are going on a special ops mission. You need to blow their defensive and Legendary will protect himself while I attract attention. It seems night 0 will be very important for town. Note: this is not equivocal communication nor a riddle. It is a restricted code. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
Oh,I am playing! Well,first off this setup is crazy (in case nobody noticed that yet) and indeed we can't be sure about anything. I think that the lynches we started should be in effect as fast as possible, it will take 10 votes to majority lynch someone. That means we need to get those 10 votes as fast as possible,because we risk getting random person from nowhere posting some weak/decent analysis and voting our lynch candidate to death,while we're not ready for it. We must be in control of the lynch,we start it and we make it happen! Also I hope I don't die Night 0, this looks like a fun game TT | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
GM does not find your behaviour suspicious so I guess he's mafia with you? | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Chezinu
United States7464 Posts
On June 25 2011 19:29 sandroba wrote: @chezinu I'm suspiciously dissapointed. I'd rather be fooled all game and get entertained than get an easy mafia day1 and miss out on chez awesomeness. Pretty sad you are sane mafia this game =/ GM does not find your behaviour suspicious so I guess he's mafia with you? Great answer. Suspicion cleared. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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