EPTClosed Casket Mafia - Page 6
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 26 2011 03:57 GMarshal wrote: We lynch the DT first as a deterrent to scum plans that revolve around getting one last lynch. We don't know what wonky powers the mafia might have this game, so the last thing we want is a situation where we are at lylo without knowing it an the mafia have to force a mislynch. If we maintain the policy of lynching the DT first then we deter any such situation. This is especially important because we have no way to confirm that what a coroner is telling us is true. It would be a ballsy move, but mafia could potentially claim DT and have a second member "confirm" them with a coroner check. Its different if the coroner has the results appear in the day post, but even so it might be manipulable. Basically with no way to verify anyone's role we need to lynch claimed DTs first to stop power plays from the mafia. Maybe its me being paranoid, but it seems to me that Ace's games are always punctuated by scum trying to carry off incredible plays. I'm trying to safeguard against situations like that. If we lynch the DT first we guarantee that nothing odd is going on. This doesn't really make sense to me. Scum already have a deterent to false claiming dt, in that they will be trading 1 for 1. There is only potential upside to lynching the dt second, as we may be able to verify via a coroner. Yes it's possible/likely that we won't be able to verify the dt, but it's worth trying. Obviously at LYLO things change though. I can't see any potential upside to killing the dt first. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
Also, on a personal note, let's make sure we are all engaging with the game right away rather than waiting until we are at 9 players left and wondering if it's lylo. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:02 Radfield wrote: This doesn't really make sense to me. Scum already have a deterent to false claiming dt, in that they will be trading 1 for 1. There is only potential upside to lynching the dt second, as we may be able to verify via a coroner. Yes it's possible/likely that we won't be able to verify the dt, but it's worth trying. Obviously at LYLO things change though. I can't see any potential upside to killing the dt first. He's suggesting that mafia in this game may have some unforeseen powers that will let them get some blitz kills in unexpectedly (a la Toy Factory Mafia also hosted by Ace). This would allow Mafia to pull some kind of power play by fake DT claiming to get the last lynch they need before pulling out their unexpected blitzing powers, with town unaware that it's actually lylo the whole time. Personally, I think it's a misguided fear, but hopefully that clears it up. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:03 GGQ wrote: It's been brushed over, but I just want to stress real quick that a 'no lynch' is not nearly as damaging to town when it's no flip and scum has only 1kp. Obviously we can't get in the habit of doing it, but we shouldn't be treating it as taboo. Also, on a personal note, let's make sure we are all engaging with the game right away rather than waiting until we are at 9 players left and wondering if it's lylo. No lynch is bad for town. Town gains NOTHING from no-lynching. Period. We have a 0% chance of lynching mafia if we don't lynch. We have a slightly higher % chance of lynching mafia if we do. Lynching is a town weapon. Don't disable it or suggest disabling it. I fail to see how no lynch at any point in the game is helpful in this setup. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:07 Amber[LighT] wrote: No lynch is bad for town. Town gains NOTHING from no-lynching. Period. We have a 0% chance of lynching mafia if we don't lynch. We have a slightly higher % chance of lynching mafia if we do. Lynching is a town weapon. Don't disable it or suggest disabling it. I fail to see how no lynch at any point in the game is helpful in this setup. Mmm yeah, I didn't phrase that as well as I could have. I didn't mean to suggest that we should consider it as a valid option. It's still bad, just less bad than it is in a more standard game. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:41 Fishball wrote: Why are we discussing Day 1 lynch so much for now? It's a Night 0 start, and a lot can develop over to Day 1. If you have another thing to suggest that we talk about, suggest it! But some talk is better than no talk. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:41 Fishball wrote: Why are we discussing Day 1 lynch so much for now? It's a Night 0 start, and a lot can develop over to Day 1. So why not suggest something else to talk about isntead of popping into the thread to shoot down the current discussion and just disappear? | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On June 26 2011 06:15 deconduo wrote: So why not suggest something else to talk about isntead of popping into the thread to shoot down the current discussion and just disappear? First, I only asked a question regarding the logic behind this Day 1 lynch discussion on a Night 0 start. This is far from "shooting down the current discussion". For all I care, you guys can just ignore what I said and continue. Hell we only have 6 hours or so left. Second, if you're too dumb to figure out a better topic, that's your problem. Like I said, I asked a question; I'm not here to give answers. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On June 26 2011 07:23 Kurumi wrote: Assuming we have Coroner type role should it target lynched people or night kills so we know how many blues or townies died ? Should vigi kills have the same priority as lynches ? Id like to avoid viging anyone though ,unless we are dead sure someone's scum . My natural assumption is that any coroners should be checking our lynches, so we get information about who pushed and defended who, etc. We get less information if we check night kills. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On June 26 2011 06:53 Fishball wrote: First, I only asked a question regarding the logic behind this Day 1 lynch discussion on a Night 0 start. This is far from "shooting down the current discussion". For all I care, you guys can just ignore what I said and continue. Hell we only have 6 hours or so left. Second, if you're too dumb to figure out a better topic, that's your problem. Like I said, I asked a question; I'm not here to give answers. -1 point for questioning the value of discussion without bringing up another topic -1 point for insulting other posters -1 point for outright refusing to contribute. 'I'm not here to give answers' ... ??? Yeah you kind of are, unless you don't want town to win. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On June 26 2011 07:45 GGQ wrote: -1 point for questioning the value of discussion without bringing up another topic -1 point for insulting other posters -1 point for outright refusing to contribute. 'I'm not here to give answers' ... ??? Yeah you kind of are, unless you don't want town to win. Bored townie or mafia. Either way a good day 1 lynch candidate. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:02 Radfield wrote: This doesn't really make sense to me. Scum already have a deterent to false claiming dt, in that they will be trading 1 for 1. There is only potential upside to lynching the dt second, as we may be able to verify via a coroner. Yes it's possible/likely that we won't be able to verify the dt, but it's worth trying. Obviously at LYLO things change though. I can't see any potential upside to killing the dt first. Do not play in trying to guess Ace's roles included int he game. I used that as a basis for an analysis in Toy Factory which resulted in me trusting Annul which contributed to the rape that occurred that game. I actually completely agree with how any sort of detective type role should be used this game. If you find a scum, push them using an analysis. Claiming DT will result in us killing you out of safety, a fake DT claim in a no flip scenario is simply way too deadly. In that sense any claim of DT will be met with swift and decisive death. We have no way of confirming anything said by a DT and it has the potential to royally fuck up the town. We need to stick to this no matter what. On a related note. Any type of detective role should stick to investigating less active individuals. I seriously doubt this will be an issue in this game due to the player base, but it is something worth stating. I am so disappointed with how XLII was basically thrown away by 1/5th if not more of the town lurking and it putting us in an impossible situation. It's another reason I am happy this game is small with known active players. Off the top of my head, if we somehow have few/no inactive players, I would recommend checking any player significantly influential in town decision, that means any vocal townie who is leading lynches. The important thing is that when you find a scum, do NOT role claim. Create analysis on that person, constantly push their guilt, but under no circumstances do you claim. From a mafia perspective killing you would then just draw people to your analysis, so its a double edged sword. You protect yourself and push a mafia by one simple act of pushing your suspects without claiming. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:07 Amber[LighT] wrote: No lynch is bad for town. Town gains NOTHING from no-lynching. Period. We have a 0% chance of lynching mafia if we don't lynch. We have a slightly higher % chance of lynching mafia if we do. Lynching is a town weapon. Don't disable it or suggest disabling it. I fail to see how no lynch at any point in the game is helpful in this setup. Arguably, if a no lynch can extend the game by a cycle, the chances of hitting a mafia with a lynch later in the game increases drastically from day 1. I see the pros and cons to both sides of the argument. Pro no lynch -Mafia have an easier time influencing lynches earlier on, and it becomes harder later on. -If a no lynch mathematically extends the game another cycle, we will inherently have more information to work off of, as well as fewer players remaining in the game. Con no lynch -We waste a day and don't gain any information on who was trying to lynch who, because a no lynch is inherently neutral. -While it may extend the game mathematically, in a closed set up we can't predict possible vigilante or surprise mafia KP. So we might just toss away a lynch for absolutely no reason. To the argument that a no lynch has a 0% chance of hitting a mafia, well it also has a 0% chance of hitting a town. Ignoring mafia influence on lynches, we are statistically fucked in that situation either way. Count in mafia who can influence the lynch, and that percentage drops substantially. As i said earlier, I don't feel like betting on what lies in the darkness. I know that I can't get that lynch back if we no lynch, and I don't know for certain that it will extend the day cycle. In that sense I would rather kill someone which should generate more discussion than a neutral no lynch, and be sure to have used kill power properly. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On June 26 2011 07:45 GGQ wrote: -1 point for questioning the value of discussion without bringing up another topic -1 point for insulting other posters -1 point for outright refusing to contribute. 'I'm not here to give answers' ... ??? Yeah you kind of are, unless you don't want town to win. - Who says I have to bring up another topic? - When did I insult other players? I said "If you're" - Bad reading comprehension is bad. - Refusing to contribute? You obviously don't see what I see. I'm keeping a close eye on all those who have proposed their grand lynching plan. | ||
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