EPTHi I just died in PTP because apparently I played terrible
I just hope this game will move a bit slower.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia III
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Hi I just died in PTP because apparently I played terrible I just hope this game will move a bit slower. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Baller daypost. So a lot of fresh faces here today and a couple familiar ones too. I am going to bed right now. Would be nice if everybody could say hi so we don't have to wait until 1 hour before deadline before seeing you guys. Also this is gonna be a first but .. Are you going to post a list of different setups like you did for SNMMII or are we left in the dark about that? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Since Palmar's plan is the only real thing that has happened in this game so far I'll try to talk about that. This setup is quite complex since it has a bunch of roles but I assume that it is somewhat balanced, which means that people aren't ALL blues (probably one or two blues as there were in SNMMII) and there are probably no duplicate roles. Veteran claims: He's not gonna get night killed so he will not soak any hits. If town has a cop and he confirms veteran on day2 then he will get instantly targetted by scum. This will leave town with one confirmed veteran at day3 but he will be avoided by scum, one dead cop, another nightkill and two people lynched. I don't know if this is a great idea. If town does not have a cop, then no cop will confirm on day2. This will leave us with a dude who is probably town anyway as I doubt scum will run the risk of claiming and attracting so much attention. If some other dude claims anyway, then he'd get targetted by scum so I don't see why anybody would fake-claim cop to hail-mary-confirm a veteran who is already semi-confirmed as town alignment just by his claim. If there is a medic, he could claim veteran too. If there is a cop he could confirm veteran on day2 and leave the medic and cop knowing each other's alignment. This would be great for town as it would most likely guarantee cop/medic duo survival until late game. If there isn't a cop, some dude could hail-mary-confirm veteran on day2 and if the medic falls for that thinking it's a cop, that would not be too great, but it wouldn't be that beneficial for the fake-cop either so I don't see why anybody would do this no matter what alignment. Also, the medic might not trust the dude who claimed veteran and himself claim townie and push a lynch for the cop fake-confirming veteran which might lead us to lynch a cop. But then, this would be a risky plan by the medic and blues are supposed to be more careful I think. Also if there is a mafia roleblocker then he could be used to break up a potential vet/cop or med/cop pair. If some dude confirms day2 then roleblocker could just block the dude who confirms as there is no reason for people to fake-confirm really, and then they could target other townies with night kill. All in all I don't know if this is a great plan. I don't know why Palmar would even propose it, shouldn't blues be able to figure out stuff like this by themselves? Now in the two games I've been in (and Palmar has been in those two so he knows) we've had people propose mediocre plans and it never ended well for them, Mataza in SNMMII and sandroba in PTP. I don't know what to think about that but Palmar sure is starting this game out by trying to attract a lot of attention. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
How did you go from ... On June 04 2011 12:27 Varpulis wrote: He's saying that we'd be better off lynching a scummy player and then looking at who defended/pushed for his lynch depending on his flip than we'd be if we just offed a lurker. At this point, I'm tending to agree. I'm currently planning on putting some pressure on the lurkers early on, then focusing on who's actually scummy when there's more to analyze. ... that to bandwagoning Mataza with Palmar? There are plenty of lurkers around who have posted absolutely nothing of value (sinani206 who only has lists and bad math, stefftastiq who has one useless post, youngminii) yet you're going at Mataza who is somewhat of an easy target due to his propensity to "put a foot in his mouth" as one of our great hosts GMarshal so aptly said it in PTP. @Palmar I'm gonna echo Hesmyrr's request: explain ... what ton of information we get from vet claiming? It's a bad plan especially when roleblockers can block vet extra life, I can't possibly see what town would gain from vet-claim. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
If someone claims veteran he will not be "confirmed" he will be confirmed. Also your "counterclaim" makes no sense, why can't there be two veterans? We don't know the setup. Your analysis of Palmar's plan is not very good. Also ... FoS on youngminii. All he's done this game is claim noob, joke around, and then this bout of activity when I pointed out that he was lurking. His recent activity hasn't been useful either, he's trying to defend Mataza and then arguing with whoever is around about Palmar's plan, which is a bad plan. I don't see how this will get us anywhere and seems like he is just posting for the sake of posting. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
It's cool that you're trying to do some new shit but this is just silly. I'm looking forward to your post tomorrow where you will dissect everybody and provide awesome insight. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
sinani206 The guy has had 7 posts so far one "hi" post, two posts listing inactive people, two math posts, one posts where he says he's rather lynch lurkers over the scummiest player and then one single post that has any content at all; one where he asks Varpulis if he didn't change his mind rather fast. 7 posts, no content at all. This is a guy desperately trying to be active while desperately not trying to attract any attention at all. This is scum. ##Vote sinani206 | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Hi and welcome to the game. What I was thinking about when I said "claim noob" wasn't him saying "I claim noob" but him throwing out some excuse for his poor play, even before we had begun as evident in his first post: On June 04 2011 16:14 youngminii wrote: Reporting in. I haven't played mafia in a long time so hopefully I don't screw town over too hard. @Varpulis: I'd rather lynch a lurker than do a random lynch. Also I never said that youngminii was guilty of ANYTHING. I simply FoS'ed him because I thought that his play was not very good. I didn't get the same scummy feeling reading his posts but I thought that it was weird how he contributed nothing, and then totally tried to change his behavior once the slightest pressure was put on him, and I really mean the slightest pressure 'cause he had been mentioned only twice in the entire game, sinani206's list and me when I pointed out his inactivity because I wanted to put some pressure on Varpulis. And then he made another 9 posts, 4 within half an hour, mostly talking nonsense about a bad plan. Sudden change in behavior when pressure is applied is not townie. Everything aside I don't currently think that youngminii is scummier than sinani206 but his defense of sinani206 is quite bad and if it turns out siani206 flips scum then youngminii will have some explaining to do. Also this vote on Palmar is pretty weird but less weird considering that he probably doesn't know Palmar's meta. Palmar The guy has been creating most of the drama so far and while it did make people talk I don't think it was good for town. His first posts only served to put pressure on Mataza, very light pressure as there were no arguments at all but pressure nonetheless. I think his last two posts with analysis have made him a lot less dangerous to have around and. I also don't like the idea of lynching one of the more active and powerful assets this town could have on day1, we should keep him around and get a better read on him, we can always lynch in case he gets too scummy. Mataza The dude has mostly reacted to the pressure that was put on him in the beginning and he didn't do that too gracefully ("Fine, lynch me."). His most recent post was a bit more defense and a bandwagon vote for sinani206. I think you need to put more out there and be more active in scum hunting 'cause I know you know how to apply pressure. Just don't lose yourself in some silly crusade. sinani206 His activity after my initial vote and analysis has been more lists, a bandwagon on stefftastiq (sinani206's vote put him to 3 votes total at the time even though he's down to one now). Then he has a lot of spammy edits with no content after that. I don't see any reason to change my vote. You can do better than that sinani206. OriginalName The guy has posted surprisingly little so far. I'd like to see more from you as I don't believe you have posted an excuse for your relative inactivity either. Who do you think is scummy and are any of those scummy enough that we should lynch them instead of going for an information lynch? Also I'd like if we started organizing votes a little more. It's all over the place, half of us are being voted for right now. Candidates right now as I see them are: sinani206 for scummy behavior OriginalName/stefftastiq/unichan for relative inactivity, I'd pick stefftastiq out of these 'cause with meta and all I think he's the one who will be least useful for town in the long run If you want a candidate for active scum/information lynch then you'll have to go somewhere else 'cause I don't like the idea of lynching an active player day1. How you people like these candidates? Oh Varpulis just posted: Kavdragon said here that he'd be somewhat inactive for day1 so I doubt your pressure is gonna work. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
... What opinions exactly? The only real opinion I can find is you saying 2.5 hours into day1 that day1 lynches are mostly dumb luck. And now you're trying to lynch a lurker who doesn't really appear to be scummy, just because he is inactive? Something that you are too. I agree with Varpulis here, this is really weak from you. @Varpulis Maybe your pressure of the lesser active people in this game would work better if you didn't clearly state that you are not going to press for a lynch and that you are going to vote sinani206 later. @JeeJee I don't think it's good for town to discuss a poor plan laid forward by a guy who also didn't really mean it. I think maybe town could have done something more useful with our time. But you are right, it really did get people talking and that's good I think I said that in my post too. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
If you're scum then you played bad, if you're veteran your play has been abysmal. Why didn't you defend yourself with something that wasn't mindless discussion with stefftastiq, misplaced votes at inactives and one liner analysis. You are capable of much more as I saw in SNMMII where you posted full analysis of people after joining in the middle of the game, and your current place in the spotlight with everybody attacking you should have allowed you to do a lot better with your analysis. Sorry if I'm getting a bit carried away but townies rolling over were the reason town lost in SNMMII and there's nothing anybody can do about it. You had your chance to defend yourself. My vote stands. I like idea of a plan to switch votes from sinani206 though, it will never amount to anything but the idea will make for some discussion. I have a couple of people in mind, OriginalName being one of them, JeeJee being another. OriginalName is pretty much guilty of the same thing as sinani206 but I think he has displayed pro-town behavior too and I'd like to keep him around for better reads. JeeJee has not been talked about a lot. He threw an early vote at youngminii because youngmini didn't discard Palmar's plan as terrible. Then after that he's been acting like "phew, I'm glad that vote was over with" and he's pretty much just been taking random stabs at people. He only very weakly commented on this whole sinani206 thing but nothing beyond what appears to be popular opinion (more content, less lists). Overall he does post content and display pro-town behavior and I'd like to see him around for day2, even though I think his vote on youngminii was rash and he hasn't really done too much to get other people on board with it. Yea. I'm fine with sinani206. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Town should never rely on blues like that. What is this confirmation we can get on day2 that you are talking about? And if we were going to lynch somebody else who would you suggest? Kavdragon and Palmar? And why do you think they would be better lynches? But yea I'm also beginning to have doubts about sinani206's scummyness but I don't see anybody else with a strong case against them and with so little potential for doing something good for town on day2. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Varpulis You need to focus your pressure because you are too much all over the place for it to have an impact right now, and it makes reading you really hard. Instead of jumping from inactive to inactive, pick one and go for it. Kavdragon Get internets. As you probably know, right now you're a great asset for town but it bugs me that it's a bit hard to get a read on you because of your posting pattern. Mataza Stop being paranoid and arguing with meta. Read the game, find a scum, make him break. unichan, dementrio, stefftastiq You really need to do something too. Three lurkers/inactives are just too much. I think unichan and stefftastiq are trying but dementrio seems weirdly absent. He had a single post with some decent content but your level of activity is just not high enough. unichan and stefftastiq both need to put more effort into their posts. Right now I am getting some townie reads and some scum reads, but it's still very much up in the air. I really wish that town had organized their votes and put up a serious candidate for lynching besides sinani206 because this bandwagon didn't provide nearly enough information as I'd have liked. This cannot happen again. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I kinda just wanted people to talk and I think these are the hardest to get reads on with their current level/manner of activity. I'll post something more analytical day2. I'm glad to see you're up to two posts now, keep 'em coming. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Varpulis The guy has had 39 posts in this game. I think his early game was quite good, avoiding fluff and applying pressure while encouraging everybody else to do the same, but his pressure ended up being a joke nobody could take seriously. He has also consistently tried to keep all doors open and all options available, never really taking a stand. His handling of the sinani206 lynch requires some scrutiny: + Show Spoiler + Link On June 05 2011 11:13 Varpulis wrote: Not damning evidence by any means. At least he's sharing his opinion and his reasons why. Does seem a bit sheepy though. Not sure how you came to the conclusion "this is scum" with that analysis. Frankly, there's not enough information on the table to properly identify scum, i think. You could say that half the players in this game are trying to be active without content. It seems to me that you really wanted to find somebody scummy, so you picked a person and figured out how is posts could be interpreted as scummy. Lynching an inactive is good and all, but it's better to lynch the one in that group that's the least active, rather than one that's just posting fluff. We can leave them for later. First I don't see why you don't think that sinani206 was acting scum. At one point or another during day1 like 8 people voted for sinani206 because of the reasons I stated in my original post and the weak defense he put up. The dude was very much scum, unless you know that he wasn't. I like how he is actively trying to take a stand here, wanting us to lynch the one who is least active. + Show Spoiler + Link On June 06 2011 01:41 Varpulis wrote: [...] Sinani206 -Actively lurking, not providing opinion, posting lists in order to seem like he's contributing. My vote goes on Sinani at the end of the day if he doesn't step up his posting. These are the exact same arguments that I used for my vote but that were not "damning by any means". Also it goes against his policy that you should lynch the one with least activity rather than those with least content, there were still people with just about no activity at this point. + Show Spoiler + Link On June 06 2011 06:19 Varpulis wrote: Alright, my vote on OriginalName is accomplishing nothing at this point. He needs to step up his posting or I'll be gunning for him later. sinani206 My previous analysis of Sinani can be found here Since then, he posted In this post, he pretends that he doesn't know what he was expected to post. I call bullshit. He's avoiding posting an opinion and hiding behind his lurker vote. At this point, he's playing to a scum objective, by lurking actively and not giving us quality posts to analyze. ##unvote OriginalName ##vote sinani206 As an aside, i've got a major noobtown read on stefftastiq atm. First he says my analysis is bad, then he agrees with it and then he votes for sinani206 because of my original analysis and that two-line post he quotes here. I can use Kavdragon's scum tells from his OriginalName analysis, Varpulis claims one thing but does another. Also Varpulis drops his policy of lynching the least active player to give the forming bandwagon a big push. After sinani206's veteran claim he proposes a plan: cop check sinani206 but don't claim, and he opens up the possibility for himself to change votes to OriginalName if other people decide to do so. After that he supposedly disappears until after the lynch. Now if you consider this plan it is extremely good for scum. If there is a cop he will waste his check on sinani206, who is a townie, and after that they can just look at who is suddenly defending sinani206 on day2 and this guy might very well be cop. At the same time Varpulis tries to open up the possiblities of changing his vote in the critical 90 minutes before deadline having to do so unless some criteria is fulfilled. I think this is very scummy, the hesitation to switch his vote while still wanting to keep the option readily available. So, Varpulis, lets hear it. ##Vote Varpulis | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I didn't say that my analysis was the reason for your vote, I am saying that you discarded my analysis and then later when the bandwagon was about to get going, you used the things I had concluded in my analysis as a reason to vote for sinani206. Next you say that you were, conveniently, offline after your plan and "forgot to change [your] vote". But your plan was not about remembering anything, your plan was that if a lot of other people wanted to change their vote then you'd also like the option to change your vote. This seems like a very weak defense and it seems like you are making stuff up. Townies don't need to make stuff up, they just need to state why they acted as they did and not try to make up/remember some lie. And then again, the cop part of your plan was terrible. I'd say that it was worse than Palmar's original plan, you want a cop to check sinani206 and then try to defend him out of the blue. Well if that will not paint a huge target on someone's back for the scum to aim at I don't know what. And nothing is EVER confirmed unless you're scum (or cop). @youngminii On June 08 2011 06:32 youngminii wrote: [...] @Prplhz: Your pressure against Varpulis is stupid. None of those reasons are scumworthy and you are guilty of the last line of reasoning yourself. I kind of don't like how you're just completely avoiding voting for ON, but I mean if you both really were scum you'd probably be trying to lynch an actual lynch candidate instead of randomly pressuring Varpulis. [...] I'd like to see you make a case against an actual lynch candidate since, unapparent to me, Varpulis is not scum at all. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
You said that you were gonna receive some flack and here you have some. I think you prematurely took your vote away from OriginalName. If there was one thing that this town learned on day1 it's that you don't just lynch the first bandwagon. So why would OriginalName really feel pressured day2 when he was the first bandwagon? Why would scum feel pressured? I think scum was pretty confident that he was not gonna get it, the town would bow out in the end, not having the balls to do the same "mistake" twice in a row. You should really have hung in there until the end, or at least until very much closer to the end. You can't just say "Hey fellas, check this shit out; I'm gonna vote for someone and then the scum will go batshit crazy, just you watch!" and then expect it to happen within a couple of hours. And if you want it to happen then you gotta be more serious than removing your vote almost five hours before deadline. Because of these reasons I think that your decision to remove your vote from OriginalName is quite poor, at least for the time being. Right now it looks like a bandwagon for unichan is forming and while I don't think that he is scum. I am pretty sure that he is just a new guy trying to get into that game and he's putting some effort into it too. Also I think that at this point everybody is so active that if we really put some pressure on unichan, he cannot hide behind inactivity. He will have to post and with limited experience in this game he will break. I don't think the same thing goes for OriginalName or at least he will be much harder to read. But the absolute worst thing is that I think that this town is thinking "Man, you can't jump on first bandwagon, so I guess we just have to jump on the second one!", removing all pressure from OriginalName again. So here goes for more pressure on the scummy OriginalName, I'm still not satisfied with how much you've been sweating. ##Vote OriginalName And I don't know if I'll have time to check in on this thread again before deadline so good luck with that. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
##Unvote Varpulis ##Vote OriginalName Also I totally forgot, my vote for Varpulis was not doing anything at this point, I was at the time hoping that we could get a real thriller going with 5 votes for each of these guys and scum biting their nails or sitting back and relaxing and town getting some good reads, but that was not destined to happen. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
##Unvote OriginalName Not really OriginalName's list that convinced me otherwise, I think that was a bit of a townie demoralized accepting response 'cause some other dude changes his vote RIGHT after mine to make the OriginalName lynch almost unavoidable. More it was Kavdragon insuring me that he does not have a scum read on OriginalName anymore and I very much think that Kavdragon has been only townie so far and I kinda trust his judgement of all of this 'cause I haven't been able to follow the game too closely for the last couple of days. Kavdragon's original reason for changing votes also applies a lot more now I think. Also about the bandwagon analysis, it is total shit. First day I voted for sinani206 before anybody else and I stayed on him because he was acting scummy as hell. Today I had a perfectly safe vote on Varpulis but I chose to change my vote to pressure you. And about me claiming to be away until after the lynch, then my pressure would really not make sense. You pressure to see how people react so you can counter-react. ##Vote unichan The guy is a better lynch for today. I know there are enough townies out there please realize that Kavdragon is maybe the most pro-town player we have and I can personally only strongly take up to consideration whatever he says (even though I still think you removed pressure from OriginalName prematurely). And I take full responsibility for this vote too, I'm not brushing anything off onto Kavdragon. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
OriginalName's vote change from Palmar to unichan makes sense, unichan is scummy and he is the only chance OriginalName has. Please reconsider. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Why are you posting an analysis on Varpulis 50 minutes before deadline when he's not up for lynch at all? While your post might be useful, it is totally misplace chronologically. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
You seriously need to man the fuck up. This bandwagoner attitude is not helping anybody and you can't keep trying to be a noob forever. You vote for somebody because you think that they are scummy, you can't just brush it off on somebody else with your "oh but those guys did it!". This is seriously terrible townie behavior and if I hadn't seen your play in SNMMII and known that you bandwagon to the very last, I'd seriously have some questions about your fears of committing and taking responsibility of your actions. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
OriginalName has been playing weirdly but unless Kavdragon is scum, they have just thrown him under the bus. Scum don't do that, thus he is not scum. unichan is a much better lynch for today. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I think you're doing pretty well, it's like 5-6 votes to 3 on you or something like that, don't hold me up on that. Also stop playing the noob card, you're no more noob than anybody else here, you're just playing the noob card a lot more. Look at who I got lynched on day1, my only vote for a scum ever was a lucky shot on day1 in my first game, and I didn't even think the guy was a scum. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
And how the hell do you know that Kavdragon is not playing you into some mafia scum plan again? You seriously need to get an opinion of your own and not just try to adopt the opinion of the guy who, in other people's opinion, is townie. This "I don't care who gets lynched" is not playing to win, and it pretty much says in the OP "Play to win.". So play to win, instead of playing not to lose. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
A more correct response could be "I didn't say something stupid, why the hell are you saying that what I said was stupid when it isn't? Are you derailing or do you just have a different look on everything that I do because you are of a different alignment?" or maybe "Yea you're right on that dude I just forgot to consider this and that in my analysis, but with you additions I think we have a strong case on this or that dude" .. There are many pro-town constructive ways you can handle criticism instead of saying "Yea I suck". But yea everybody has a first game and I sure as hell messed up my first game. Did just about every mistake anybody can imagine and then I also did those in the next game I played. I just think that both you and everybody else would be better off if you didn't play the noob card all the time. Unless you are scum as I suspect, in which case you can just die. Btw, I'm gonna count those god damn votes right now. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Okay I'll chill ... No need to get all upset or anything. And yea it's a bit sad that there are more europeans around at these hours than americans. I just don't buy that, but it's impossible to know which americans are around when nobody is posting ... And they're certainly not all scum. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
gg OriginalName | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Thanks for the baller nightpost though. And please, don't you people give up like in SNMMII. We have to find a scum next time but we can do it. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
If there is a vigilante he should seriously consider shooting somebody, a hit will be awesome and a miss will not be too terrible. If there is a cop he should also strongly consider claiming, depending on what information he's got so far. Also, were noone roleblocked on day1? In SNMMII no roleblocker meant only one blue role for town. I seriously doubt that there is a vig or a cop (and almost certain that we don't have both). So do not rely on them people, we may just have to do the scumhunting ourselves. I may be away for the first part of day1 but I'm almost certainly here for a good part of the rest of it. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
First, stefftastiq's claim is without doubt true. He is a vigilante and he is therefore town. Second, even though we're at lylo, we have more information to base our lynch on than ever before and we should be able to find some candidates for lynching. Also all townies need to be very assertive, we may have to use pressure to gain information, but we can't use half assed pressure or anything like that we need to make it clear that we're gonna lynch some bastard and then we need to change our votes if he's not scum anyway. 'cause we can't just make information lynches at this point. Third, @Palmar I haven't contributed anything to this game? Well who has, really, we never caught a scum. On day1 I was the first to make a push for the sinani206 lynch and even though you wrote a bigger post some time after, it was essentially my post with the reasons more cleanly cut out and backed by quotes. On day2 I tried early on to provide an alternative for the OriginalName lynch so we would not just form a bandwagon, then I tried to put more pressure on OriginalName and his scum buddies by changing my vote but in the end I followed my intuition and Kavdragon's analysis to switch my vote to unichan. What have you done except fooling around in the beginning? Your accusations also seems like you're accusing, voting, and then you say that you might come up with some reasons for this vote at some point. I think it is good to go for your hunches but you really need to sit down and build a case instead of saying "he is guilty", 'cause everybody here did something you could consider scummy and if you judge them in advance you're just gonna blow up those things out of proportions and it will be a waste of your time. I think we're on the right track with the unichan accusations but I'm gonna go through the game later tonight and see what I can find. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Anyway, what the hell? Two votes for me already without any arguments at all? And a vote for Kavdragon where the main argument is a funny picture? People need to post some content right now. This is our best chance at hitting a scum since we're at 4v3, we have 60% chance to hit scum (since none of us can vote for ourselves, and stefftastiq is obviously town). Kavdragon First, what the hell Kavdragon. I think that in the beginning you played very well and townie like, good arguments no hesitation no fluff or spam, but since neither sinani206 nor OriginalName, who were up for lynch on day1, were scum a scum was free to play as townie like as he could. Then you tried to get unichan lynched on day2 but more on that later. What you have been doing since night2 though has been quite bad. First you insist on vigi shooting that night or else we would not survive. Even after both stefftastiq, me and youngminii point out that vigi can shoot later, you insist that he has to shoot that night. In the end vigi shot night2 and that was extremely good for scum. If vigi had waited until night3 it would be 4v3, which would give him 50% chance to shoot a scum, instead of 57% chance .. it is pure math. But this was a freebie for a scum since it is pure math and your defense can easily be math-noob or WIFOM. And why do I think that your defense might be WIFOM? Because you have used WIFOM extensively for your defense so far. + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2011 04:48 Kavdragon wrote: Ah crap. Sorry, forgot to preview. If you will recall, the first day was a "sinani vs ON" lynch. If I were scum, why would I draw necessary attention to myself with a last minute vote switch? Day two was not a "last minute vote switch" at all, and I explained my reasoning several times since then. I wanted to see how the town reacted to OriginalName being lynched. I tried to move the vote off of him late in the day, but it was obvious that he was town at that point. I suggested a one person medic plan because I was almost certain that there was no medic (which is looking pretty much confirmed), and it was the best thing I could do to save someone who I was sure was town. (It makes no sense for scum to take that risk, and at the very least, it generates wifom for them, which helps the town). Yeah, and the guy who was shot night 1? He was gunning for Youngminii heavily up to the end. Confirmed townie doesn't mean that they are right. You should know better than that. Um, I'm getting coaching from people, so yes, I will talk it over with them. And no, I don't think Ace could have played as good a game as i would have so far, were i scum. The strength of these arguments are uncharacteristically weak. I may have been wrong about some of my reads, but I've played for the town all game. Are you wearing rose colored glasses? If I were scum, why would I draw necessary attention to myself with a last minute vote switch? It makes no sense for scum to take that risk, and at the very least, it generates wifom for them, which helps the town And no, I don't think Ace could have played as good a game as i would have so far, were i scum. So palpable that you even feel the need to point it out yourself. WIFOM is no way to defend yourself, just explain your actions and get on with it. Only way anybody would have to resort to WIFOM is if they do not have any reasons for their actions (noob defense), or if they don't want to disclose their actions (scum motives). JeeJee's original accusations were "gimmicky" and, as you point out yourself, actually weak. Then why do you use up all the time you have to defend yourself against terrible accusations instead quickly explaining your actions and getting to scumhunting? Are you more occupied with surviving that with nailing scum, even at lylo? This brings me to my next point; your vote against me. Even though you have cooked up great analysis in the past you decide to bandwagon for this one. No reasons, just following Palmar's accusations, which does not have any arguments either. What the hell? How do you expect me to defend myself against nothing? Or maybe it would be better if I didn't defend myself? I really thought that you were townie from day1 but this is just crazy weird behavior from you who seemed to have played consistently well. Since this is lylo I think that it should be possible for everybody to make accusations against three guys. I'm gonna say that this JeeJee v Kavdragon thing looks a bit orchestrated, bad arguments for and even worse counter arguments, the whole thing ending up with a picture of a god damn rabbit getting pulled out of a hat. The whole thing looks like a farce to me, orchestrated so that scum has something to talk about today instead of being afraid to say something because this is getting dangerous. I think that the three scum are Kavdragon, JeeJee, and the last one is definitely not stefftastiq and I doubt that it is unichan either even though I was on his back after day2. This leaves Palmar and dementrio. Also, people get the hell posting and you absolutely have to be online tonight at deadline. Scum could do a last minute vote switch, it only takes one of us with a bad vote. I am going to need the help of three of you stefftastiq, unichan, Palmar, and dementrio because I seriously doubt that JeeJee is gonna keep his vote on Kavdragon if the guy is up for lynch when we're approaching deadline. ##Vote Kavdragon Sorry dude but you are playing terrible and I doubt that Ace coached you to use WIFOM as defense when you are townie. And I want to stress that this is not a final vote, I will be here until deadline and I want to see some proper defense Kavdragon. Now, get posting people, get posting right the hell now, we may have a lot of work to do. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
You can do better than that. I want to see some analysis 'cause I bet that everybody is confused right now and you're suspicious too. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
First I want to address the main point of Kavdragon's argument; the vet claim. If he is veteran then he is 100% townie, if he is not veteran then this is a last ditch defense as he so cleverly pointed out himself earlier in the game. Now is he a vet? First point against him being vet is that that would make 6 vanilla, 2 veteran, and 1 vigi against 3 vanilla scum (since nobody claimed roleblock yet I'm gonna assume that there are no roleblockers, if you forgot to claim roleblock then maybe now is the time). This is insanely imbalanced compared to SNMMII where we were 9 vanilla townies v 2 vanilla townies and a roleblocker. And town almost won that game if they'd just stayed active until the end. It goes without saying that 2 veterans AND a vigi would make town way overpowered. Second point against him; he claims that he has played like a vet all game through. Either he has been faking this all along or he has just now made this up. Faking it all along seems crazy since there was a vet day1 and that should make vet claims less believable later. I think he just now made this up and his behavior so far only vaguely supports the idea that he has been vet all game. He tried to help town, but he never got a scum lynched and so far everybody has tried to help town. More importantly he also claims to have tried to attract hits but he didn't, scum is never gonna hit a guy who might be protected by medic and the way he's been acting I would have protected him the first two nights if I were a medic. We saw it in SNMMII where the guys hit were all people who laid low without lurking, and we've seen it so far in this game too. The guy never tried to attract hits. This vet claim is something he just made up now, he's been acting scum acting vanilla in a self destructing town all game long. Like "I called for a vig hit on dementrio because I knew he was town and I wanted him to talk and I knew there were no vigs". Well scum acting vanilla townie could have done that too, "I called for vig hit on dementrio because he was lurking and we would not get a clear read on him for day3 lynch" with the secret agenda that dementrio might just be town (just look at his posts and Hesmyrr's). I also want to point out that he's only been defending himself so far, I think this is a scumtell. He never provided any reason for the sudden vote on me. I think that he jumped on me 'cause the first guy who got a bandwagon going on him on the first two nights was lynched. But then when everything was turned around he knew that he was gonna get in trouble very soon and this is a last ditch effort to avoid getting lynched. My vote stands because of reasons previously stated though I would not mind reiterating them by request. @Palmar You don't care about stuff that happens, you just sheep stefftastiq? Either you are scum or you should get a replacement right now 'cause you are ruining this game for town, and I don't care if you are trying to make a point of sheeping or anything, you should really try to lead by example. @dementrio The guy never played veteran, most of what he explains makes perfect sense in a scum acting vanilla townie context. The more outrageous the lie the more likely it is that people will believe it and playing on townie fear of repeating a day1 mistake makes it all the more powerful. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Changed his behavior totally trying to start a bandwagon against me with absolutely no reasons. During the pressure on him he has acted very desperately, using WIFOM and claims to defend himself while still not providing any reason for his weird vote against me. Has acted townie for parts of the game, but that was when town was self destructing and scum can risk scoring some town creds. Has not done a single vindicating thing in this game. Now why do you think that I am scum? There have been absolutely no arguments against me, just Palmar voting and switching away and Kavdragon voting for me. That's it. @unichan You still need to place your vote. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
@Mataza No there wasn't a particular reason for killing you on day1. I was kinda tasked with finding someone and sending in the kills and I went to random.org and it brought me to you and I didn't see why that would be too terrible so you got hit. Blame atmospheric noise. Also, why was I so scummy? I actually read Ver's townie guide as preparation to this and I thought I played very townie at least first day and a half .. My day1 sinani206 lynch proposal was based solely off the day1 lynch in Ver's guide .. The town was selfdestructing already so there was enough room for scum to act townie .. I'd love any feedback from anybody 'cause I'd really want to improve, and also 'cause I'd probably play like this as town too and I don't want to be acting scummy as townie  | ||
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