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TL Mafia XL
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spam glhf newbies! | ||
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On June 05 2011 04:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I thought that was going to be annul's picture for a second :p I'm not that bad of a person. | ||
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On June 06 2011 03:38 amazingxkcd wrote: interesting first post there, all ready trying to set up accustation upon me for supposedly making a scummy post when in reality i am only simply making observation. You already got into my list of suspicious people by derailing a innocent first post when we still have around 30+ hours left to figure out each other. You didn't 'simply make an observation'. You stated that something was 'quite clear' when in fact it is not. It hasnt even been 24 hours since the game started, so we have no idea if someone else will come in and start to post alot, or whether the people who have posted a lot before will continue to post alot. In fact, the only way you could know this would be if you were mafia and knew that several of the mafia members had posted already. Also your second sentence was really weak. You basically said that the only question is to figure out who is mafia. Yeah, we know. Got any ideas? | ||
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On June 06 2011 02:41 Kairo wrote: I am reading the thread, and thinking about what everybody writes- Plenty of time still to vote. I am not posting, but definitely not afk/inactive. I will post when I have anything worthwile to write, since I do not want to clog up the thread with useless spam. I was under the impression that one of the surefire ways for town to lose is when too many people posts too many "empty" posts, since it makes the information flow almost impossible to handle and analyze. This if ofc very benefical to the mafia, so I would strongly suggest that everybody are careful with "empty" posting. Everybody should feel encouraged to contribute, but make sure you are contributing. Look at the posts of somebody that you feel is suspicious. Figure out what makes you suspect him. Then post about it in a logical and rational manner. Make as many posts like that as you want  . | ||
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On June 06 2011 01:17 TheAwesomeAll wrote: Vain you make me look silly in your summary, but its great otherwise. I quickly made a list of inactive people, you can ignore the numbers. + Show Spoiler + 1. Munk-E 2. blackone amazingxkcd 5. cherubael 6. teamsolid 8. Alderan 10. Drazerk has voted but not posted 12. Aril 14. TheKK 15. TranceStorm 16. heist 17. Sprungjeezy 18. monsterDrakar 21. supersoft 23. Xedat 24. grush57 25. Date_Reaper 26. CjrNinja 29. DeMorcerf 31. Kurumi 33. Clicker 34. Kairo 36. gtrsrs 38. tdAdonis 40. GGQ Why did you make this list? What do you think about the people on the list, and what should we do about them? | ||
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On June 06 2011 01:30 monsterDrakar wrote: I will quickly make a list of people who annoy me with their first post. + Show Spoiler + TheAwesomeAll You got my vote. You earned it. More explanation, please. Why does this annoy you? Why do you feel justified voting for people who annoy you rather than people that you suspect are mafia? | ||
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On June 06 2011 00:07 Kurumi wrote: My dumbness meter went over 9000. Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum. No more posts like this, please. We need a positive environment. Ask jackal or coagulation for tips if you want some ^_^ | ||
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On June 06 2011 00:01 Vain wrote: Hi all. I just read trough all of the post and i must say there has been alot of accusations already. especially with Kurumi barging in and calling almost everyone that has posted a noobtown or a rat. I made a list of what happened the past time so i may as well post it. It may not be complete in the sence of what everyone has said but i think it helps tracing who accused who + Show Spoiler + freeloader625 asked a question about mafia and said he was new aprudds says scum slip(accuses freeloader) Jimbooo Does not want to make hasty conclusions treadmill agrees with aprudds(accuses freeloader) cherubael is a bit indifferent at first but then also accuses freeloader 35spike1 joins the bandwagon without much explenation gtrsrs posts he will be back tomorrow Aril defends freeloader625 Lafali also hops the wagon cherubael accuses aril DeMorcerf accuses freeloader too heist not suspicous of people defending freeloader omgCRAZY: Appruds quick to acccuse freeloader. Cherubael and jimboo thorw out votes Aril: We should not gang up on people omgCRAZY states he's new to the game iGrok defends freeloader. Says voting early suspicious. suggest checking freeloader monsterDrakar doesnt support Appruds accusation TheKK defends freeloader625.states it was a legimate question TheAwesomeAll also defends freeloader625. TheAwesomeAll sees the other 2 post freeloader did make Sprungjeezy also suspects freeloader Kurumi thinks freeloader is town kurumi votes treadmill kurumi accuses lafali 2 times Igrok tries to temper kurumi just as Sprungjeezy rookie44 makes a post with some questions Benjef votes without posting Pyo posts the first analysis Benjef explains why he voted Pyo says he's a noob Ok, Now Kurumi. Bandwagoning is not seen as a mafia only trait. Town joins bandwagons just as easily. For now Freeloader625 would still be my main target. It would give us at this moment the most information about who will be scum and who not. If he would be town it gives us the info that the people who were defending him are likely town. Why would they defend him if they are mafia? Furthermore it would lay suspicion on the people who accused him in the first place. The chance that they are mafia in that case would be alot bigger. If he turns out scum we can pat ourselfs on the back and continue the game with somewhat of a lead. As a last thing to point out. If you are town don't be afraid to post a good analysis that is pointing out weak scum play. It will maybe get you killed but in the end it will help you win. And we all play to win rigt  Bolded part is very misguided play. Lynching for information, especially on day 1, is very weak. Taking into account the context, lynching freeloader for information is even weaker. The chance that he's mafia is very low, and if he flips green we have no usable information. The underlined question is very very easy to answer. Mafia always defend townies that they think will get mislynched. Why wouldnt they? It gives them free town cred. All we would get by lynching freeloader for information is a likely dead green and a pile of WIFOM. | ||
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On June 06 2011 04:02 Lafali wrote: I'm new to mafia forum games like this and mostly used to smaller and faster-paced ones where taking a risk on a mislynch is pretty common as long as the game is not mislynch-lose. The subsequent posts from treadmill seemed fishy and people started to vote for him and at that point he was the only one looking suspicious to me. However, after reading more into the thread it seemed like a bad idea to vote so early, and it would be better to wait for any tells, and then on day two, cop reports. Sounds like you play EpicMafia? It's good that you got some basic ideas from there, but forum mafia with 40 players isn't very similar to EM. Don't expect cop reports. Play as if there's no power roles; towns win forum mafia by having strong townie play, rarely by getting lucky with power roles. | ||
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On June 05 2011 13:35 aprudds wrote: Hmm, a bit suspicious no? Right when the PM are getting sent out too. Scum slip? To address this, I've been around this mafia forum for a while, and I was mafia last game. In your post telling you that you are mafia, you are usually given a link to a private quicktopic where your mafia team can coordinate. So freeloader's question actually indicates the opposite of what everyone assumed; he's probably not mafia because he didn't know how mafia communicates. | ||
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On June 06 2011 03:44 gtrsrs wrote: hi everyone i'm back my thoughts so far: - jesus christ, 7 pages of nothing - freeloader asked an innocuous question that was stupid but not scummy IMO in fact he made it quite clear the reasons he was asking: and then everyone ignored the fact that he asked another innocuous question too. clinging to false evidence ITT? - unfortunately it looks like a slip so i can see him getting lynched today - if he flips town, we'll need to re-evaluate the people who pushed for his lynch - dude who keeps posting haikus, please stop, that's thread derailment and very scummy. i can't even read your posts. i do not think there are any posting restrictions so only post what you HAVE to - that being said, i'm going to vote for you because i don't want to jump on the freeloader bandwagon (nor do i want to try and counterbandwagon onto aprudds for calling him out) - voting in this thread is not scummy, whoever said that. voting in this thread helps us keep track of bandwagons and reasoning behind votes. please vote in this thread when you vote in the voting thread. - there are too many posts in this thread. you probably don't have anything to say at this point. don't post for posting's sake. when you do post, please make long, well-thought-out posts. short posts derail the thread. i think one of the pages had like 10 one-line posts and that's not acceptable. it allows mafia to "blend in" with the town by posting similarly. - posts that have words but don't say anything are scummy - kurumi is naturally an annoying, accusatory spammer, don't read into it too much (also no offense to kurumi)- from what i've seen of his play in other games, jackal is a strong player. don't let his abrasive personality cloud your mind from his usually very-informative, rational posts. at the same time, please use your own judgment when reading his posts and decide for yourself if you come to the same conclusions. if he is mafia he will use his "upstandingness" to sheep us around. ##vote: iGrok You didn't actually mention iGrok in your post, but you voted for him. More explaining please? | ||
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On June 06 2011 07:16 supersoft wrote: and that's bad because? I don't get your point. If someone wants to expose himself, he may do so. I won't, because if I do so, either Mafia shoots me at night, or town lynchs me at day - depending on what I am, or what you guys think I am. Please read Xedat's post carefully. It's very important that town plays the game correctly. If you are town, you shouldnt be afraid of being found out as town. Mafia already know you are town because they know who their teammates are. Town wins when all the townies are so pro-town that the mafia become obvious. Mafia wins when town can't tell who is lurking/useless town and who is mafia. | ||
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Thoughts on what I've read so far: iGrok's post on setup was not blue-fishing at all (if he was doing that for the benefit of his mafia friends, he would post it in mafia quicktopic, not in thread), but it also was kind of useless (sorry bro, I know you like this kind of stuff, but there was no need to post it). You went through a lot of trouble and wild conjecture just to arrive at the conclusion that we probably have a pretty normal setup (2dts, 2-3medics, 2-4vigs, 2-4 vets). You could have just stated that that's a normal setup for the roles that were listed. I want to mention, though, that I've played in games on this forum where the only blue roles were vigilantes, and where the only blue roles were veterans. Be ready for anything and DONT count on blue roles to win the game for you. Greens win games far more often than blues do. About Kurumi, yeah a lot of his posts were bad, but he's been a pretty week player in the only two games I've seen him in. His habit of 'restating' other players posts to make it seem like they said things they didn't is very suspicious, though. I agree with him as a potential dt target. On a side-note, though, Post by Post analysis is rarely needed. It just makes your analysis longer than it needs to be. Cut out the posts that don't contribute to your analysis, or just spoiler them. I don't love how iGrok responded to the vote on him, but I don't necessarily recommend a dt check on him, since if he's mafia he's likely to be the godfather. Freeloader's one and only new post was really really bad. If you are town, buddy, don't do this sort of thing again. I think I know what you big 'plan' is; in fact I think it's the same awful 'plan' that Kurumi had in XXXIX. The "act suspicious so people bandwagon on you then accuse them of being scum for bandwagoning" plan is awful awful awful, and I dearly hope that that's not what you are going for. Think that's all for now, more later. | ||
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I voted jimbooo; the first line on my mafia XL sheet is a scribble saying "Jimboo-words and actions say different things". His posts since then haven't convinced me to back off of him either. This is my preferred lynch. I also would support an amazingxkcd lynch, he went on my sheet with his first post and since then he's been underlined twice lol. Let's get our votes off of rookie and onto one of these two guys. | ||
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On June 07 2011 12:48 iGrok wrote: Speaking of people who haven't posted much... But yeah, you're right. doesn't look like it'll really matter though, looks like rookie is pretty locked in as the lynch How do you feel about that? What do you think of Treadmill compared to lafali? | ||
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What do you think of iGrok, jackal? | ||
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On June 07 2011 13:06 iGrok wrote: Well. 2 blues and 2 reds. Looks like we need to do some serious thinking. Whats do you think of treadmill? | ||
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On June 07 2011 13:16 Treadmill wrote: 2 mafia getting modkilled is nice, means they're down to 3 KP. On the other hand, we're probably out of medics. Which means the mafia gets to kill pretty much whoever they want. Hey look! rookie44 was a blue! What a surprise! I'm gonna point out that I totally called that. But not to brag - if I saw it, someone in the mafia probably suspected him of being blue too. In fact it's a little more obvious to them cause they could rule out rookie being red. So i'm even more convinced that the mafia managed to swing that lynch. I'm pretty comfortable saying that Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi are mafia. To a more experienced player (iGrok or Vain preferably) what would you think of out vigi's shooting at them tonight? I'm maybe 80 or 90% sure, but I'd want someone with more experience to comment. Kurumi was hard on lafali right from the beginning, I seriously doubt he is mafia; there was absolutely no need to for Kurumi to push for lafali lynch so soon. The other two are reasonable choices, xkcd more so than senj from what I've seen. I don't think it's certain enough to call for a vig shot yet though. Better to save them another night at least. | ||
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TheKK didn't post at all and so he gives us absolutely no information. Perhaps the best information that we can get out of this is to examine people's responses to Kurumi's pressure on lafali. I leave that as an exercise for the newbies for now . Look at how people respond to lafali's post and who voted for lafali and who defended lafali. But don't just look at that; look also at why and how they defended him.If dts are looking for targets to examine, I'd suggest jimbooo, amazingxkcd, drazerk, and Vain. Make your own choices, of course, but these are people i have suspicions towards. | ||
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On June 07 2011 14:18 Treadmill wrote: I'm not convinced that Jackal is scum. He advocated for Rookie's lynch, yes, but all day one everyone was advocated to lynch a different person. What I suspect is that the mafia saw it and jumped on it as an opportunity, about an hour later: when [b]Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi all vote for rookie at the same time. It's the main reason I think all three are scum. Aww, <3. You haven't addressed what I said about Kurumi attack lafali almost immediately in the day. Why would he do that if they are both mafia? | ||
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 Trust me that it's smart and good:No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players. The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town. iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused. Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though. Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players. Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear. | ||
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GL townies! | ||
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GGQ Mafia XL Thoughts -These will be just rough thoughts on how the game progresses that I’ll post after the game finishes to help the newbies understand what was happening better (hopefully) in case Ver or the other vets don’t. I may or may not clean it up and make it look nicer before I post it. I’ll be jotting things down regularly, so I won’t have the benefit of hindsight when writing. I will have the benefit of knowing the roles list, though (I wanted to know immediately if I was right about iGrok luls). -so Day 2, happily things started out pretty much as I would have tried to make them go if I was still alive. iGrok is being pressured hard (cheers for those who took up the torch!), forcing a two-person vote that was tight from the very start of the day. This should force mafia out, first to try to divert votes, then to try to defend iGrok to keep him alive. -as a side note, I see a number of people unconvinced by my analysis, particularly the part where I said that his attempt to show himself as a town leader indicated that he was godfather. I regret that I didn’t have time to go more in depth in that post. What I meant is that iGrok was trying to appear like a leader to town without actually leading town anywhere. As other players pointed out, he was quite passive on day 1. Playing passive on day one is fine, but if you are putting yourself forward as a leader and leading nowhere, chances are that you want the town to go nowhere. -for those who arent convinced iGrok is scum, here’s a thought process that you should have in a situation like this. The votes are close. Very close, and they have been all day. There’s been no serious attempt to split votes and distract the town. That means mafia aren’t fucking around. One of the two players, iGrok or amazingxkcd, is scum and the mafia are trying to save him. A surprising number of people are actually considering that both of them are scum. What? Really? How does that make sense? What’s the mafia’s plan then? IF they were both scum, you can bet that the thread and the voting list would look MUCH different. There would be accusations flying in every direction creating WIFOM if one of them actually got lynched. Plus they would definitely be bussing each other to make the other look better when lynched. Instead we have xkcd defending iGrok and iGrok pretty much ignoring xkcd. No, only one is scum. You need to look at who is getting sketchier people defending him. In this vote, the sketchier people are defending iGrok and voting for amazingxkcd. Thus we lynch iGrok. -for those who already believe iGrok is scum, this close lynch should only confirm that for you. Mafia are scrambling to win this lynch. That means you need to look carefully at who is defending him or just avoiding analyzing him. Naturally, some townies will be defending him, but these will generally at least explain their thoughts and reasoning in a believable manner (though it can be hard to identify that in a game full of new players...). As it turns out, almost the entire mafia team has already identified themselves in this way (munk-e hasn’t posted on day 2 yet as of the time of this writing...) Read on to see how. -aprudds: probably the hardest one to catch, but the first that should have raised suspicions. While town talk is about iGrok’s suspiciousness and whether to lynch him, aprudds says only that my case on him was good with no further explanation or follow through, then proceeds to throw accusations around on drazerk and xkcd and jackal, trying to find another target. Avoids actually discussing iGrok or the arguments against him. Remember that he defended lafali on day 1 as well -grush, spike, and amazingall: all three bandwagon on xkcd while bringing nothing new against either iGrok or xkcd. Another theme for all three players is that they say something like ‘the case against iGrok is good’ or ‘GGQ’s analysis of iGrok can’t be ignored’ or some shit like that to make it seem like they are at least considering iGrok as a suspect, while in reality they all just vote immediately for xkcd and defended iGrok afterwards. This should ring major alarm bells. They’ve decided before the fact that they are going to defend iGrok and vote xkcd but they don’t want it to look that way -now, I’m not saying you should have picked these guy out as the scum right away, I doubt I would have gotten all of them either. There were several other people who seemed like they would have been suspicious to me if I didn’t already know the role list. These include impervious who ignored the events of the night and the iGrok issue and instead tried to get everyone to post their experience (“Contributing without contributing”), heist who had his vote on someone irrelevant, and perhaps cherubael for voting xkcd without explanation. Some people suspected Treadmill for constantly defending iGrok, but even though he was wrong about pretty much everything on day 2, the tone and motivation of his posts were clearly townie. But the way that most of the mafia players are making posts trying to make it look like they are doing something that they actually arent should be the red light telling you to lynch them. -it’s the psychology of these posts that separates them from the posts made by the townies. The mafia KNOW that iGrok is scum, which means that they definitely want to save him. But because they KNOW that he is scum, they also want to distance themselves to avoid appearing suspicious if/when he flips. This contradiction often bleeds through in mafia posts. Knowing more information than the town is an advantage, but it can also be a curse if you fail to hide it well. -as a side note, I already addressed this in the thread while I was alive, but you guys shouldnt be doing such excessively long analysis. Most of it is irrelevant and just makes people less likely to actually read what you are writing. Even more importantly, don’t make a big list trying to mark everybody as either town or scum on day fucking 2. Chances are very high that you will never be able to know every scum that early in any game you play. Before I died, I would only have listed iGrok as being scum. My secondary suspicions like jimbooo, vain, etc were still too uncertain. The guys I listed as possible suspects like xkcd, senj, monster all would have changed to probably town in my eyes from their posting on day 2. Just try to find one or two scum at a time, then use them to help you find others. You can’t kill more than one scum at a time anyway. Likewise, don’t have too many people that you trust as town because it gives you a subconsious bias when you read their posts later. Most people should be somewhere in the murky middle. -also, jackal is not scummy in this game. Yeah he played quite poorly on day 2, doing more or less nothing. But his decision to lynch rookie on day 1, while it was a poor read, had no mafia motivation; there was no other lynch or valuable discussion going on that needed to be diverted. Votes were split etc etc -so munk-e ended up coming in at the last moment and finishing the lynch on xkcd instead of iGrok. When iGrok flips red, that’s suspicious enough, but the fact that both days he’s lurked until the very end, then come in with one post and a vote to avoid modkill should raise eyebrows. -night 2; it should be clear with xkcd flipping town that iGrok must be mafia. vigis should shoot immediately, and investigations should begin into the people who defended iGrok and voted for xkcd -ok so apparently iGrok is getting killed instead now. weird and wild. But with him flipping red, there is more than enough evidence out there for a skilled vigilante to shoot grush/spike/awesomeall tonight. munk-e would be a good dt check, and while aprudds has done a good job blending in with his posts, he now shows up on the lafali defense list, iGrok’s don’t lynch list, and the xkcd lynch list. That’s enough to call for a dt check too. Good luck. -jackal is looking worse and worse as the game goes on. What’s up man? Not really interested in this game? -jackal was shot, but everyone seems to be pretty much on the right track for now. I’ll probably stop writing this unless something unexpected happens. | ||
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On June 16 2011 16:22 Pyo wrote: EDIT: spilered the quotes since the post was really long and the game is over. Some thoughts on the thoughts: + Show Spoiler + On June 16 2011 13:13 GGQ wrote: -so Day 2, happily things started out pretty much as I would have tried to make them go if I was still alive. iGrok is being pressured hard (cheers for those who took up the torch!), forcing a two-person vote that was tight from the very start of the day. This should force mafia out, first to try to divert votes, then to try to defend iGrok to keep him alive. At first I got on iGrok's trail because he was being a jerk. It wasn't until the first night after reading your post that it really occurred to me, he wasn't being an arrogant douche per se, he was just trying to sheep people. At this point I was absolutely sure he was mafia, but wasn't sure exactly how to proceed given that I was a little worried about coming off too obviously town and didn't want to get night hit. IMO, you should never be afraid of getting night hit as a green. If you get night hit, then you are doing it right. + Show Spoiler + -for those who arent convinced iGrok is scum, here’s a thought process that you should have in a situation like this. The votes are close. Very close, and they have been all day. There’s been no serious attempt to split votes and distract the town. That means mafia aren’t fucking around. One of the two players, iGrok or amazingxkcd, is scum and the mafia are trying to save him. A surprising number of people are actually considering that both of them are scum. What? Really? How does that make sense? What’s the mafia’s plan then? IF they were both scum, you can bet that the thread and the voting list would look MUCH different. There would be accusations flying in every direction creating WIFOM if one of them actually got lynched. Plus they would definitely be bussing each other to make the other look better when lynched. Instead we have xkcd defending iGrok and iGrok pretty much ignoring xkcd. No, only one is scum. You need to look at who is getting sketchier people defending him. In this vote, the sketchier people are defending iGrok and voting for amazingxkcd. Thus we lynch iGrok. I was definitely one of those guilty of thinking that they were both mafia. Mostly this was because I was lazy and didn't really think it through, but part of it was me being confused by xkcd's excessively long analysis post filled with bad analysis. I remembered iGrok doing something like it on day 1, so I wasn't really sure what to think about him. I've tried to stress that it's much less about WHAT people do than about HOW and WHY they do them. + Show Spoiler + -for those who already believe iGrok is scum, this close lynch should only confirm that for you. Mafia are scrambling to win this lynch. That means you need to look carefully at who is defending him or just avoiding analyzing him. Naturally, some townies will be defending him, but these will generally at least explain their thoughts and reasoning in a believable manner (though it can be hard to identify that in a game full of new players...). As it turns out, almost the entire mafia team has already identified themselves in this way (munk-e hasn’t posted on day 2 yet as of the time of this writing...) Read on to see how. while it turned out that the entire mafia team did vote xkcd to try to save iGrok, I had become very suspect of the mafia and whether they were actually playing optimally or even in their best interest. After all, why would they double hit you (GGQ) on day 1. That just makes no sense at all. Did they really think your analysis was that dangerous that they had to remove you? Given how correct you were, maybe that was something that iGrok et. al. were cognizant of, but it just didn't make much sense. Given this sub-optimal play, all the mafia having voted for xkcd wasn't such a sure thing to me. I kind of would like to know what a more experienced observer/participant thinks about this. Using two hits to double tap a strong town player on night one is pretty common and definitely a valid strategy. It was very possible that Meapak would have made me a veteran so I could stay alive longer to keep helping and teaching the new players. Plus there was still a third medic alive who could have protected me. It's safest to use two hits to eliminate a player that you view as the most dangerous because if he survives the single hit, then he's practically a confirmed townie which just makes him even more dangerous. I actually posted my analysis of iGrok AFTER the hits were sent in btw, he just double-shot me on principle. It turned out that it wasn't necessary this game, but I wouldnt say it was a bad decision. + Show Spoiler + -aprudds: probably the hardest one to catch, but the first that should have raised suspicions. While town talk is about iGrok’s suspiciousness and whether to lynch him, aprudds says only that my case on him was good with no further explanation or follow through, then proceeds to throw accusations around on drazerk and xkcd and jackal, trying to find another target. Avoids actually discussing iGrok or the arguments against him. Remember that he defended lafali on day 1 as well To be honest, he was the first one I was actually suspicious of in the game because of his day 1 accusation of freeloader. In fact I actually voted for him at first. However, iGrok acted more suspicious and given aprudds limited participation, I figured if he is mafia, then at least he's not trying to mislead or confuse town, so he'd be a lower priority lynch. After the day 2 voting fiasco and all the modkills, he kind of just drifted out of my consideration. Fortunately he reappeared on the defend lafali/vote for xkcd list. + Show Spoiler + -grush, spike, and amazingall: all three bandwagon on xkcd while bringing nothing new against either iGrok or xkcd. Another theme for all three players is that they say something like ‘the case against iGrok is good’ or ‘GGQ’s analysis of iGrok can’t be ignored’ or some shit like that to make it seem like they are at least considering iGrok as a suspect, while in reality they all just vote immediately for xkcd and defended iGrok afterwards. This should ring major alarm bells. They’ve decided before the fact that they are going to defend iGrok and vote xkcd but they don’t want it to look that way I realized this too, but I really didn't put 2 and 2 together to realize what this meant. The nagging issue of I'm not experienced, so I don't really know how people would normally act/are expected to act really got me here. Fortunately, we got lucky in that they either modkilled themselves or drew enough suspicion from others. + Show Spoiler + -now, I’m not saying you should have picked these guy out as the scum right away, I doubt I would have gotten all of them either. There were several other people who seemed like they would have been suspicious to me if I didn’t already know the role list. These include impervious who ignored the events of the night and the iGrok issue and instead tried to get everyone to post their experience (“Contributing without contributing”), heist who had his vote on someone irrelevant, and perhaps cherubael for voting xkcd without explanation. Some people suspected Treadmill for constantly defending iGrok, but even though he was wrong about pretty much everything on day 2, the tone and motivation of his posts were clearly townie. But the way that most of the mafia players are making posts trying to make it look like they are doing something that they actually arent should be the red light telling you to lynch them. lol impervious was on my list too. In any case that's some interesting advice that I'll keep in mind going forward. + Show Spoiler + -also, jackal is not scummy in this game. Yeah he played quite poorly on day 2, doing more or less nothing. But his decision to lynch rookie on day 1, while it was a poor read, had no mafia motivation; there was no other lynch or valuable discussion going on that needed to be diverted. Votes were split etc etc I was so sure that he town that it didn't even occur to me that a vigi would kill him. Given that the list of "experienced" mafia players outlined by iGrok, cross-referenced with looking back at old mafia games, it just didn't make sense for both him and iGrok to be mafia. And he was, I was almost sure that jackal would have been the godfather. + Show Spoiler + -so munk-e ended up coming in at the last moment and finishing the lynch on xkcd instead of iGrok. When iGrok flips red, that’s suspicious enough, but the fact that both days he’s lurked until the very end, then come in with one post and a vote to avoid modkill should raise eyebrows. I'm really proud of myself for having picked up on this!! seeing lafali modkill himself by voting late and then TheAwesomeALL stating in the ban list thread (I was just looking at his post history) that he had been trying to vote at the last minute but forgot really sealed the deal for me on Munk-E. Unfortunately, I got night killed after pointing this out. -night 2; it should be clear with xkcd flipping town that iGrok must be mafia. vigis should shoot immediately, and investigations should begin into the people who defended iGrok and voted for xkcd + Show Spoiler + -ok so apparently iGrok is getting killed instead now. weird and wild. But with him flipping red, there is more than enough evidence out there for a skilled vigilante to shoot grush/spike/awesomeall tonight. munk-e would be a good dt check, and while aprudds has done a good job blending in with his posts, he now shows up on the lafali defense list, iGrok’s don’t lynch list, and the xkcd lynch list. That’s enough to call for a dt check too. Good luck. -jackal is looking worse and worse as the game goes on. What’s up man? Not really interested in this game? -jackal was shot, but everyone seems to be pretty much on the right track for now. I’ll probably stop writing this unless something unexpected happens. After iGrok got lynched and 4 mafia got modkilled, it was basically GG and it seemed as though everyone lost interest in the game. Anyway, thanks for your notes GGQ, some really insightful stuff. I now know who's history to follow to learn how to play this game. Thanks, but there are much better players than me to follow if you want to see how town is played well. I've developed a pretty good scumdar, but I still lack the ability to persuade people really well. | ||
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On June 16 2011 08:33 gtrsrs wrote: nah there's a difference between trying to control the game and getting caught for it then rage-quitting, and being proud of essentially "winning" the game for your team. i deserve to brag a bit. so do you, you articulated what i was feeling about iGrok much better than i did. bigger than being right in this game is convincing other people that you're right, something i've never been super good at. so cheers I think it's just this part that he's calling you a douchebag for. While you were right about iGrok, you didn't do a lot of convincing for the other townies. My advice to you would be to work on having a stronger thread presence. | ||
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On June 17 2011 02:48 gtrsrs wrote: also i don't know why you DIDN'T claim vigilante in a close vote like that. i almost certainly would have changed my vote as long as you weren't counterclaimed. same thing to amazingxkcd. if people have ANY inkling that you're blue and you claim before being lynched, they will change their votes until they can be sure they're not lynching a blue Since we don't know how many of any blue roles there are, a counterclaim on vig would mean nothing at all. In fact there were three vigilantes in this game. Also, with iGrok claiming vig, I certainly wouldnt have switched off of him. That's the easiest blue role for mafia to fake since mafia can shoot anyways. If he claimed detective or medic I would at least consider not voting for him, but it's hard to be sure what I would do in that situation. | ||
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