Kurumi you just changed your vote to pyo. You seriously need to stop abusing the fact that you are a confirmed town. You're just causing confusion and start arguments that are not clarifying anyone's suspicions on anyone.
Ok I came home an hour ago and just read through what happened since yesterday, and it's a whole lot of contentless discussion on the last pages. The only thing that stands out to me is grush's horrible horrible defense that was mostly him defending everyone that we suspect being mafia, except for himself. I don't even know what he was trying to achieve with that, but it's looking like he's trying to somehow save some of his scumbuddies. I'm sorry I don't have more to say, but really not much has happened this day. (I'm voting for grush57) (I'm also going to bed now so I won't be able to respond to the pressure Kurumi is going to apply on me because I'm breaking all of his rules at once, but please don't waste you're votes on me. thanks.)
On June 13 2011 07:04 heist wrote: Kurumi you just changed your vote to pyo. You seriously need to stop abusing the fact that you are a confirmed town. You're just causing confusion and start arguments that are not clarifying anyone's suspicions on anyone.
Just because Kurumi is a confirmed townie doesn't mean he isnt also a moron.
I'm voting grush57 because I think he's got the best case against him. Mostly for the reasons other people have said - his posting day 1 + his votes + mostly just lurking. Though given our luck he's probably another blue lol.
I'm gonna post some stuff about Alderan during tomorrow's night phase since apparently people aren't gonna lynch me for another day or two. I was kinda hoping that somebody else, someone not everyone thinks is mafia, would take a look, but since that hasn't happened I'll have to do it.
Jumping back into this thread here and reading over some of the discussion that occurred during the day, my vote is going for Vain, given the analysis I provided before the day started.
On June 11 2011 12:11 TranceStorm wrote: I'm assuming that quite a few people will be posting their "in case I die thoughts". I will be doing the same right now by declaring my extreme suspicion for Vain. Looking at his previous game history, he played in Slightly Normal Mini Mafia I. In this game, he was the doctor and aided greatly in the town's victory. Notice that in that game, although he was accused of lurking and was a heavy lynch target throughout the day, he responded to the pressure placed upon him very well and helped the town win.
In that game, he posted without fear, pointing out logical fallacies in other people's arguments, making witty comments (often one-liners), and accusing other players freely. This game, however, he is far more cautious and reticent in all of his posts. Note that he only ever speaks about the players most hotly debated at the moment and only throws small support behind lynching one of the candidates. In fact, the only matter which he seems to strongly support is iGrok's innocence.
The first point of suspicion against him is here: + Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2011 02:11 Vain wrote: Ok, i finally finished reading. Man, sleeping is bad for keeping up with a mafia game.
First off: Kurumi is probably town if he also spammed this much in a previous game where he was scum. I don't know his style very good but he is drawing way too much attention to be a comfortable mafia.
I don't quite understand this. So Kurumi is probably town because he's acting the same way he did when he was mafia before?
Euh, i meant town. Jackal stated that when he was town he's just as hard to analyze. Iirc he was not scum the other games Jackal played with him.
On June 06 2011 10:47 Alderan wrote: Here's a list of a couple people who seem to be acting a little scummy. (Not saying for sure scum, just people that might not be) Lets get some meaningful conversation going.
Amazingxkcd
I've already kind of voiced this opinion but I'm going to expound upon my earlier analysis.
Let's look at his posts.
It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it
This post, obviously vague, of little help to the town, and posted directly after he appeared on TheAwesomeAll's “Lurker List”.
When I pointed out this was a fishy post he responded with this:
interesting first post there, all ready trying to set up accustation upon me for supposedly making a scummy post when in reality i am only simply making observation. You already got into my list of suspicious people by derailing a innocent first post when we still have around 30+ hours left to figure out each other.
Obviously immediately went on the defensive, turned and pointed a finger at me, and suggest that the town take its time “figuring each other out” instead of having discussion that is inherently pro-town.
In fact his only “contribution” to town discussion was this post:
Please refer to these guides on playing TL mafia.
For town: aidnai, GMarshal
For mafia: bumatlarge, chaos13
LSB's Newbie Guide Mafiascum Newbie Guide Introduction to Mafia (Flash) Ver's town guide Ace's Mafia Manifesto Qatol's Town Guide
So his only contribution to the town is copying and pasting something that is in the third post of this thread? Interesting.
On June 06 2011 23:10 Alderan wrote: Also, I'm going to ahead and voting for amazingxkcd, just in case something happens to me at work today and I won't be able to get a vote in.
@ amazingkcd, I'm really just waiting on you to refute the analysis I did earlier.
You are discriminating against me and you just voted for me right now just off the basis of my first post, which i made after i finished watching MLG. You do not provide evidence that i am a scum nor do you back it up should you have given any evidence. It seems that you want me to be lynched when i am trying to win for the town.
@iGrok and @Jackal58;
I can't analyze Kurumi either, since i take that he's acting as if he has multiple personalities disorder. He should be watched for sure. Also, @Jackal58, you stated that he had the same behavior in the previous games you played with him, what were his roles? That should at least help to give us a direction on him. I am not trying to label you two as complete scum, but i was just concerned about iGrok's request for help from Jackal58.
About freeloader, I am currently leaning towards the scummy side as for the reasons others have put up front already, but i need more time to see if i do want to lynch him. There are others here who seem suspicious based on their posts and the tone of their post, but i am not ready right now to make a final desicion.
Kurumi was town in XXXIX. Lynched day one for posting nonsensically for the first half of the day. He has improved significantly from that game believe it or not. He is also still playing in PTP mafia and is a self proclaimed SK.
Ok, yeah that makes a lot more sense.
Yeah, I'm starting to see how Kurumi could be a townie, but I could also see him as a scum who felt the pressure and is trying to change his tune. I still don't thing he should be lynched today. I'm trying to think of who should be, but I really don't know :/
But you agree that it shouldn't be freeloader?
Yeah. Here's my "Don't Lynch" list (in no particular order):
Me ^^ Jackal58 Vain GGQ Kurumi Treadmill 35spike1 CrJninja Xedat aprudds
Actually, looking back, I'm going to put my vote on Drazerk, for twice voting without saying shit. (He might've posted once or twice, but absolutely no substance, only bandwagonning).
iGrok puts him on the top of his don't lynch list yet Vain had not been too particularly active in that period.
My second point of suspicion (and my strongest one) is my earlier post against him: + Show Spoiler +
On June 10 2011 10:04 TranceStorm wrote: @Vain. I'm not particularly concerned about your defense of Lafali. My question regards your vote for rookie on day1.
On June 07 2011 07:39 Vain wrote: It was true that he was asking for information but proposing that we should have a strategy doesn't really ring a scum bell for me.
Then later, you switch your vote to rookie roughly an hour later saying:
On June 07 2011 08:23 Impervious wrote: Alright, I'm back, and I've read the last ~10 pages to try to get myself up to date. I've probably missed something, but I think I have a good idea on what's going on so far.
On June 07 2011 04:16 Jackal58 wrote: Impervious???? Bah. Obviouscum.
I'll be keeping an eye on you.
Scum.
Btw - GREEN AND YELLOW!!!!!
Ok, now, from what I've seen, I think Jackal's plan is best. I've seen a bunch of "newbie" posts, but that one seriously hinted at finding blues, as well as finding flaws in previously used investigative strategies.
While it may be a "newbie" type post, it also answers a question I ask myself whenever I'm looking at someone - Are they acting in the best interest of the town?
My gut feeling is "no", even though he has so few posts. And, rather than pick on lurkers for the sake of picking on lurkers (since they'll likely be modkilled at some point), I think our best move at the moment is to lynch rookie44.
Ok, i guess you're right. His posts didn't really contribute and now with the knowledge of that there is a thread for mafia alone freeloader isn't really a viable option too. So with that my vote will also be on Rookie for the sake of voting. 4 hours remaining but i'm going to bed so my vote is final. Goodnight
Only roughly an hour passed between these two posts. During this period, rookie had not posted and no one had brought up any new reasons as to why to vote for rookie.Yet you vote for rookie on the basis that: "His posts didn't really contribute and now with the knowledge of that there is a thread for mafia alone freeloader isn't really a viable option too. " That in no way is a justification to vote to lynch someone. Simply because they didn't contribute should not justify a vote and considering that there were other candidates with significant evidence against them (which you seem to ignore), it seems highly suspicious that you jump right to rookie's vote when you earlier argued that he "didn't ring your scum bell".
I had done this earlier in the thread where I had questioned him regarding why he voted for rookie when he had declared an hour before that rookie wasn't particularly suspicious. His reasoning in the thread was that he "hadn't contributed anything at all", which is a poor reason to lynch anyone. He has still yet to explain his reasoning behind the rookie lynch and I find that damning.
The third point comes from this quote, which Vain belatedly posts near the end of yesterday's lynch: + Show Spoiler +
On June 10 2011 09:43 Vain wrote: So basing off this i would believe very strongly Kurumi is town. There was no real reason for him to attack lafali this hard on day one. The plan could have easily backfired. Also i'm not sure about iGrock now but i can't get one thing out of my head. Remember the whiteboard iGrok posted? why the fuck would you have such a thing if you are mafia? I just can't believe he just painted arrows that had to be right just to give us an insurance he was town(otherwise hats off to you iGrok). Furthermore the list pleads for Xedat for him emphasizing kurumi thought lafali was scum. And as last this puts a bit of suspicion on Trancestorm for diverting to jimboo. you may conclude some other things from the list but it gets more and more speculation on the way(was it all setup or not). Now last but not least my vote goes to jackal. I believe iGrok or jackal have to be scum. There has to be at least one experienced player in the mafia camp in my opinion. I have my doubts about iGrok but i feel jackal has more things against him(saving lafali) so my vote will go with him. You make your own choice, it would be very bad if we bandwagoned in a short time again.
This post is enormously confusing, but boils down to two arguments. Vain doesn't think iGrok is mafia because he drew up those diagrams (a very weak argument), and Jackal is probably mafia because he saved lafali (a valid one). Yet note the hesitancy in this post. Vain votes Jackal on the basis that he is a better candidate than iGrok rather than on the basis that he really thinks Jackal is the mafia. Vain's carefulness is really different from his free-posting behavior in his previous game which makes me think that he is definitely mafia.
It would be extremely prudent to pressure Vain on his vote on rookie and on his reasoning for his continuous defense of iGrok throughout the game.
Vain's response has even further made me suspect that he is definitely mafia. He posts this just a page back justifying his vote for grush: + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2011 05:40 Vain wrote: I would also go for grush at this time. I'm reading the thread again and i can't find much more than 2 line posts. But this could of course be his way of playing mafia so look at the facts.
Voted for freeloader and unvote Did not vote on Rookie44(gtrsrs) Voted for amazingxkcd
His reasoning for the votes is also a bit off. A few quotes now and then wouldn't hurt.
Oh and btw gtrsrs. why do you start a post with "man treadmill your 100% scum scum scum scum fucking scum. And then: oh well don't mind that we'll just lynch Vain and grush57. And what the fuck. Derailing the thread with telling we probably have 7 scum? Really? That's not town play in my book. I would have labeled that as scum play if i weren't convinced you were town.
i will post now before kurumi goes flying mad with his lurker obsession. We have still 27 people in the game where a lot of people don't post that well thought out post
Note that on the topic of grush he says "I'm reading the thread again and i can't find much more than 2 line posts". Here he reveals that he has been reading the thread, and has been looking at specifically what grush has done. But what about the accusations of himself? Vain has clearly indicated that he has read the thread and the accusations against himself but refuses to answer them. Given that as I have noted before, Vain has defended himself well in previous games, but has given no effort to doing so.
One of the stumbling blocks to the case that Vain is mafia is the fact that he voted for Jackal in the last lynch when he could have easily voted for amazingxkcd. But I think that both Aril and Vain voted for Jackal during this period precisely because they (wrongly) saw that amazingxkcd was leading the lynch at the moment (teamsolid was previously voting for amazingxkcd). Given that they knew that amazing was not mafia, it was convenient for them to vote for Jackal (after all, we can't expect all of the mafia voters to be in the same voting block).
This at least is my theory. Feel free to argue with me here, but I will be voting for Vain because his behavior and continued dodging of accusations outweighs his voting behavior for me.
You've convinced me TStorm. Good thing you didn't post any later. Vain advocated freeloader lynch, was in defense of igrok, voted rookie for the 'sake of voting', then has gone pretty much inactive after that until very recently. Changing my vote to him. Sorry i can't give any other thoughts atm, i really have to go
Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those.
On June 07 2011 05:08 grush57 wrote: I'm pretty sure gtsrs is scum. He is keep accusing people with little info and keep saying he will risk his life, even though he would be scrambling to save himself if he was up to be lynched. Therefore, I vote gtsrs.
Well this was one of the largest posts i could find. I wouldn't type this as a scummy post though. He is trying to give some reason why he voted while it isn't a very good one he was not bandwagoning this time. Not very interesting overall
On June 09 2011 00:58 grush57 wrote: Alright, I'm going to say that amazingxcd is scum, for he is not responding to any accusations and lynched a medic and had no clear evidence that rookie was scum.
Derp, no one had clear evidence rookie was scum. It was pretty much blue or scum. i will count this as bandwagoning
On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote: I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons.
First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now.
To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day:
Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok.
Now to the differences between these three players:
Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches.
Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid...
iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi.
___________________________
iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF.
On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote: GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good:
No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players.
The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town.
iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused.
Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though.
Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players.
Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear.
So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!
Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him
I think you have his defence and then his following post fresh in your memory so no quote for that. In my opinion this is another not so experienced player that is tunneled upon. Why the fuck is no one defending him? oh wait. Maybe because he's another newbie player where is just tunneled upon.
Kurumi. could you as confirmed town make a list of who is also confirmed town and who is town in your opinion? we really need to get some sort of a reliable overview.
Jeah paint them nice 'n green boy. After that you can throw that list away. Igrok isn't a stupid player and i wouldn't be surprised if there are a few/al off the reds in there. He obviously played this game a few more times and probably instructed the mafia well.
On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote: Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those.
On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote: I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons.
First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now.
To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day:
Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok.
Now to the differences between these three players:
Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches.
Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid...
iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi.
___________________________
iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF.
On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote: GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good:
No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players.
The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town.
iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused.
Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though.
Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players.
Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear.
So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!
Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him
Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is.
In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself.
Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now.
On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote: Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those.
On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:
On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote: I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons.
First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now.
To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day:
Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok.
Now to the differences between these three players:
Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches.
Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid...
iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi.
___________________________
iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF.
On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote: GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good:
No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players.
The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town.
iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused.
Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though.
Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players.
Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear.
So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!
Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him
Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is.
In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself.
Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now.
Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok?
Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice
On June 13 2011 08:58 aprudds wrote: Since Grush doesn't seem to be defending himself I'll vote him. Sorry that I don't have much analysis, I'm just not very confident in my accusations.
Also can someone give me a second opinion on
treadmill Senj Kairo Alderan
and their voting patterns. Noone has commented on it yet.
You can't make a case just on voting patterns. Remember Impervious also voted that way? i thought you guys already decided senj was town somewhere on the line?
Sorry for being so late to the party here lady's and gents, weekends are pretty busy for me, especially this weekend. Will SIGNIFICANTLY more active into tomorrow.
It seems that everyone has jumped on this Grush bandwagon, and I don't necessarily think that its a bad idea so I'm going to throw a vote there for the day.
I feel like analysis of Grush's posts at this point will be overly redundant in that I can only find a couple and they are by and large meaningless (the biggest tell being his association with iGork earlier in the game).
On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote: Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those.
On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:
On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote: I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons.
First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now.
To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day:
Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok.
Now to the differences between these three players:
Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches.
Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid...
iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi.
___________________________
iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF.
On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote: GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good:
No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players.
The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town.
iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused.
Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though.
Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players.
Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear.
So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!
Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him
Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is.
In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself.
Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now.
Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok?
Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice
Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok.
In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so.
On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote: Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those.
On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:
On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote: I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons.
First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now.
To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day:
Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok.
Now to the differences between these three players:
Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches.
Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid...
iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi.
___________________________
iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF.
On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote: GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good:
No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players.
The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town.
iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused.
Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though.
Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players.
Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear.
So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!
Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him
Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is.
In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself.
Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now.
Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok?
Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice
Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok.
In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so.
On June 09 2011 07:20 grush57 wrote: Yea, I don't really think he would be blue either.
there, now do your own research without a stupid search function. now accusing of what, not voting on scum? guilty as charged but you have to come with more than that.
On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote: Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those.
On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:
On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote: I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons.
First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now.
To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day:
Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok.
Now to the differences between these three players:
Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches.
Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid...
iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi.
___________________________
iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF.
On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote: GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good:
No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players.
The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town.
iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused.
Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though.
Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players.
Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear.
So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!
Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him
Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is.
In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself.
Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now.
Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok?
Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice
Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok.
In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so.
On June 09 2011 07:20 grush57 wrote: Yea, I don't really think he would be blue either.
there, now do your own research without a stupid search function. now accusing of what, not voting on scum? guilty as charged but you have to come with more than that.
Ok, I stand corrected on the quote issue. (That still doesn't clear grush by any means - he's only saying that iGrok probably isn't blue).
But when I'm talking about accusations I mean responding to the following posts:
Especially considering that the last of the set of 4 posts is just 2 posts above one of yours and is on the same page where we have had such a nice conversation, it looks to me like you are dodging the accusations against yourself.
On June 13 2011 08:58 aprudds wrote: Since Grush doesn't seem to be defending himself I'll vote him. Sorry that I don't have much analysis, I'm just not very confident in my accusations.
Also can someone give me a second opinion on
treadmill Senj Kairo Alderan
and their voting patterns. Noone has commented on it yet.
You can't make a case just on voting patterns. Remember Impervious also voted that way? i thought you guys already decided senj was town somewhere on the line?
I don't remember that, I think we're still unsure of Senj. I'm not sure about Treadmill, but he said he'll give us an analysis of Alderan so that'll be interesting. Kairo seems a bit lurky, + Show Spoiler +
On June 09 2011 10:28 Impervious wrote: It's currently a tie. I'm going to break it. I feel like there's a strong case vs iGrok, although I am less sure of it than I am of xkcd. I am a little surprised that no vigis took a shot last night. Our vigis may be inactive, or we may not even have any. Because I was sure the case for lynching xkcd was strong enough to warrant an early hit. w/e. I'm voting xkcd for now.
I feel that we were lucky that we did not get a third townie kill with misvigies, since it would have caused huge amounts of confusion. How likely is it that iGrok and xkcd is on the same team? What would it mean if a) iGrok flips green? b) iGrok flips red? c) xkcd flips green? d) xkcd flips red? My current vote stands for xkcd, but i can still be convinced to change. If any mafia try to affect the grok/xkcd vote situation they will have to leave footprints, which is useful. Is there any 95%+ identified mafia in any of the "what if" scenarios a-d that we can use our vigies on? Is there any 95%+ identified BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FOR MAFIA medic target in any of the "what if" scenarios a-d that we can use? Do NOT out blues for the mafia. There is no need to do any analysis for them.
For some of this to be relevant: when does abilites resolve? is it by timer or simuntaneusly at the end of the night? when does medic/vigi PM timing (early/late) matter?
I believe this is potentially a double-edged sword, since stressing a decision for mafia could be useful while a premature medic/vigi decision could be really really bad. What would be nice would be to force a win/win situation for the town, but I can not see such a path clearly at this time.
is the mafia allowed to change their targets during the night?
Given: If targets are allowed to be changed and abilities resolve simuntaneusly at the end of the night then much of this post is garbage.
Just one of his posts I found, it's mostly fluff, trying to seem like he's doing something. The a) b) c) d) is him trying to push the work onto other people.
On June 13 2011 09:09 Alderan wrote: Sorry for being so late to the party here lady's and gents, weekends are pretty busy for me, especially this weekend. Will SIGNIFICANTLY more active into tomorrow.
It seems that everyone has jumped on this Grush bandwagon, and I don't necessarily think that its a bad idea so I'm going to throw a vote there for the day.
I feel like analysis of Grush's posts at this point will be overly redundant in that I can only find a couple and they are by and large meaningless (the biggest tell being his association with iGork earlier in the game).
Lol, what a scum post. Apoligising for lack of activity, happily stating that he'll jump on the Grush bandwagon, and explaining that he can't be bothered checking out Grush's posts.
EPT
Trust me that it's smart and good:
