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On June 13 2011 09:33 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:22 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:10 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:02 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 08:53 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote:Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those. On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote:I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons. First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now. To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day: Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok. Now to the differences between these three players: Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches. Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid... iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi. ___________________________ iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF. Second reasonThis shit convinced me + Show Spoiler +On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote:GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want  Trust me that it's smart and good: No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players. The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town. iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused. Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though. Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players. Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear. So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum! Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is. In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself. Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now. Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok? Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok. In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so. On June 09 2011 07:20 grush57 wrote:
Yea, I don't really think he would be blue either. there, now do your own research without a stupid search function. now accusing of what, not voting on scum? guilty as charged but you have to come with more than that. Ok, I stand corrected on the quote issue. (That still doesn't clear grush by any means - he's only saying that iGrok probably isn't blue). But when I'm talking about accusations I mean responding to the following posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=52#1022Well as i stated before it was pretty much a 50/50 scum/blue flip i just don't really like talking about blues and i didn't feel like investigating the rest again. Day one lynch is most of the time wrong anyways. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=58#1157point one: GGQ,Kurumi and a few others are also on that list. Ty for bringing that up. It could very well be those are all townies. Igrok was positioning himself as head townie remember? Point two: same as first link Point three: Well igrok said something about at least one vet being in the mafia. I found that a very good theory. One of the two had to be mafia but i picked the wrong one. I dind't think igrok would put so much effort in appearing town while he was godfather. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=61#1212Jeah, really i don't know what GGQ was smoking but i didn't even talk about lafali once before i died http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=65#1286Especially considering that the last of the set of 4 posts is just 2 posts above one of yours and is on the same page where we have had such a nice conversation, it looks to me like you are dodging the accusations against yourself.
So, i hope that's enough for now.
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On June 13 2011 09:50 35spike1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:09 Alderan wrote:
Sorry for being so late to the party here lady's and gents, weekends are pretty busy for me, especially this weekend. Will SIGNIFICANTLY more active into tomorrow.
It seems that everyone has jumped on this Grush bandwagon, and I don't necessarily think that its a bad idea so I'm going to throw a vote there for the day.
I feel like analysis of Grush's posts at this point will be overly redundant in that I can only find a couple and they are by and large meaningless (the biggest tell being his association with iGork earlier in the game).
Lol, what a scum post. Apoligising for lack of activity, happily stating that he'll jump on the Grush bandwagon, and explaining that he can't be bothered checking out Grush's posts.
I agree it is pretty worthless, just trust me that in the next few days I will be active enough for everyone to not have any doubts. I just don't know what else can be said for Grush's case other that I agree that he is the scummiest candidate to this point. I am interested to see who you think is more scummy though.
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On June 13 2011 09:47 35spike1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:06 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 08:58 aprudds wrote:
Since Grush doesn't seem to be defending himself I'll vote him. Sorry that I don't have much analysis, I'm just not very confident in my accusations.
Also can someone give me a second opinion on
treadmill
Senj
Kairo
Alderan
and their voting patterns. Noone has commented on it yet. You can't make a case just on voting patterns. Remember Impervious also voted that way? i thought you guys already decided senj was town somewhere on the line? I don't remember that, I think we're still unsure of Senj. I'm not sure about Treadmill, but he said he'll give us an analysis of Alderan so that'll be interesting. Kairo seems a bit lurky, + Show Spoiler +On June 09 2011 11:06 Kairo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 10:28 Impervious wrote:
It's currently a tie. I'm going to break it.
I feel like there's a strong case vs iGrok, although I am less sure of it than I am of xkcd.
I am a little surprised that no vigis took a shot last night. Our vigis may be inactive, or we may not even have any. Because I was sure the case for lynching xkcd was strong enough to warrant an early hit.
w/e. I'm voting xkcd for now. I feel that we were lucky that we did not get a third townie kill with misvigies, since it would have caused huge amounts of confusion. How likely is it that iGrok and xkcd is on the same team? What would it mean if a) iGrok flips green? b) iGrok flips red? c) xkcd flips green? d) xkcd flips red? My current vote stands for xkcd, but i can still be convinced to change. If any mafia try to affect the grok/xkcd vote situation they will have to leave footprints, which is useful. Is there any 95%+ identified mafia in any of the "what if" scenarios a-d that we can use our vigies on? Is there any 95%+ identified BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FOR MAFIA medic target in any of the "what if" scenarios a-d that we can use? Do NOT out blues for the mafia. There is no need to do any analysis for them. For some of this to be relevant: when does abilites resolve? is it by timer or simuntaneusly at the end of the night? when does medic/vigi PM timing (early/late) matter?I believe this is potentially a double-edged sword, since stressing a decision for mafia could be useful while a premature medic/vigi decision could be really really bad. What would be nice would be to force a win/win situation for the town, but I can not see such a path clearly at this time. is the mafia allowed to change their targets during the night?Given: If targets are allowed to be changed and abilities resolve simuntaneusly at the end of the night then much of this post is garbage. Just one of his posts I found, it's mostly fluff, trying to seem like he's doing something. The a) b) c) d) is him trying to push the work onto other people.
You could see that as a blank post.
btw. it's a trick question: the answer on all is completely NOTHING
On June 13 2011 09:50 35spike1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:09 Alderan wrote:
Sorry for being so late to the party here lady's and gents, weekends are pretty busy for me, especially this weekend. Will SIGNIFICANTLY more active into tomorrow.
It seems that everyone has jumped on this Grush bandwagon, and I don't necessarily think that its a bad idea so I'm going to throw a vote there for the day.
I feel like analysis of Grush's posts at this point will be overly redundant in that I can only find a couple and they are by and large meaningless (the biggest tell being his association with iGork earlier in the game).
Lol, what a scum post. Apoligising for lack of activity, happily stating that he'll jump on the Grush bandwagon, and explaining that he can't be bothered checking out Grush's posts.
So you suggest we should lynch alderan? even for grush one post wasn't enough to make him scum
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On June 13 2011 09:50 35spike1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:09 Alderan wrote:
Sorry for being so late to the party here lady's and gents, weekends are pretty busy for me, especially this weekend. Will SIGNIFICANTLY more active into tomorrow.
It seems that everyone has jumped on this Grush bandwagon, and I don't necessarily think that its a bad idea so I'm going to throw a vote there for the day.
I feel like analysis of Grush's posts at this point will be overly redundant in that I can only find a couple and they are by and large meaningless (the biggest tell being his association with iGork earlier in the game).
Lol, what a scum post. Apoligising for lack of activity, happily stating that he'll jump on the Grush bandwagon, and explaining that he can't be bothered checking out Grush's posts.
That's ONE way to look at it. Alternately, he's apologizing for having been busy and not posting much, and agrees with the consensus view of grush57 and doesnt't really have anything to add.
Saying that Alderan is "explaining that he can't be bothered checking out Grush's posts" is not only unfair but inaccurate - he's saying he can't be bothered to give analysis, which is different.
This is the biggest problem we've been having this whole game - once someone's decided someone else is scum, then every single new post is read in the worst possible light.
I'm suspicious of Alderan too but we need to be fair to people if we want to avoid continued mislynches.
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On June 13 2011 10:09 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:50 35spike1 wrote:On June 13 2011 09:09 Alderan wrote:
Sorry for being so late to the party here lady's and gents, weekends are pretty busy for me, especially this weekend. Will SIGNIFICANTLY more active into tomorrow.
It seems that everyone has jumped on this Grush bandwagon, and I don't necessarily think that its a bad idea so I'm going to throw a vote there for the day.
I feel like analysis of Grush's posts at this point will be overly redundant in that I can only find a couple and they are by and large meaningless (the biggest tell being his association with iGork earlier in the game).
Lol, what a scum post. Apoligising for lack of activity, happily stating that he'll jump on the Grush bandwagon, and explaining that he can't be bothered checking out Grush's posts. That's ONE way to look at it. Alternately, he's apologizing for having been busy and not posting much, and agrees with the consensus view of grush57 and doesnt't really have anything to add. Saying that Alderan is "explaining that he can't be bothered checking out Grush's posts" is not only unfair but inaccurate - he's saying he can't be bothered to give analysis, which is different. This is the biggest problem we've been having this whole game - once someone's decided someone else is scum, then every single new post is read in the worst possible light. I'm suspicious of Alderan too but we need to be fair to people if we want to avoid continued mislynches.
Yes it could be. But it's not that was worries me.
"It's the don't suspect me i'll contribute later" and the "yeah i'll just bandwagon along"
The first is at leas a bit suspicous and the second is really, really annoying. i get it that he doesn't have that much time but bandwagoning is most of the time not a very good thing. Its fine if there is enough discussion thrown around but frankly there are 27 people still playing and i didn't hear 27 good reasons to lynch jet.
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It's just one of those situations where I can keep posting on my iPhone, but I'm not going to be able to get to a computer and really get down to business for a couple hours, in which case some in depth analysis wouldn't be too beneficial for another 24 hours.
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On June 13 2011 10:19 Alderan wrote:
It's just one of those situations where I can keep posting on my iPhone, but I'm not going to be able to get to a computer and really get down to business for a couple hours, in which case some in depth analysis wouldn't be too beneficial for another 24 hours.
Translation: Excuse for not lynching today and then going and killing the best townies at night.
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On June 13 2011 10:55 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 10:19 Alderan wrote:
It's just one of those situations where I can keep posting on my iPhone, but I'm not going to be able to get to a computer and really get down to business for a couple hours, in which case some in depth analysis wouldn't be too beneficial for another 24 hours. Translation: Excuse for not lynching today and then going and killing the best townies at night.
Jeah, like. we need less of these posts. Both of them. First is just telling us absolutely nothing only a reason to not suspect him. And the second one is true but i hope everyone figured that out already. He now used two posts to tell us that he's useless for us but still can read the thread, JAY.
As for me, my vote goes to heist for the reasons he defended igrok and joined both the bandwagons. In my opinion that's just as suspicious as defending him a bit. If you want more analysis on heist his posts go a few pages back:\
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On June 13 2011 09:51 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:33 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:22 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:10 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:02 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 08:53 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote:Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those. On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote:I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons. First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now. To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day: Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok. Now to the differences between these three players: Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches. Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid... iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi. ___________________________ iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF. Second reasonThis shit convinced me + Show Spoiler +On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote:GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good: No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players. The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town. iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused. Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though. Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players. Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear. So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum! Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is. In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself. Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now. Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok? Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok. In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so. On June 09 2011 07:20 grush57 wrote:
Yea, I don't really think he would be blue either. there, now do your own research without a stupid search function. now accusing of what, not voting on scum? guilty as charged but you have to come with more than that. Ok, I stand corrected on the quote issue. (That still doesn't clear grush by any means - he's only saying that iGrok probably isn't blue). But when I'm talking about accusations I mean responding to the following posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=52#1022Well as i stated before it was pretty much a 50/50 scum/blue flip i just don't really like talking about blues and i didn't feel like investigating the rest again. Day one lynch is most of the time wrong anyways. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=58#1157point one: GGQ,Kurumi and a few others are also on that list. Ty for bringing that up. It could very well be those are all townies. Igrok was positioning himself as head townie remember? Point two: same as first link Point three: Well igrok said something about at least one vet being in the mafia. I found that a very good theory. One of the two had to be mafia but i picked the wrong one. I dind't think igrok would put so much effort in appearing town while he was godfather. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=61#1212Jeah, really i don't know what GGQ was smoking but i didn't even talk about lafali once before i died http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=65#1286Especially considering that the last of the set of 4 posts is just 2 posts above one of yours and is on the same page where we have had such a nice conversation, it looks to me like you are dodging the accusations against yourself. So, i hope that's enough for now.
I quoted my own posts a couple of times because you happened to 'skip by them' multiple times so I called you out asking you to respond multiple times. Only when I have finally pinned you down here have you finally responded to any attacks against yourself. So lets look at your responses:
Post #1: Ok, so you voted to lynch rookie on the basis that it was a 50/50 and you didn't want to investigate anyone else further. That sounds fishy by itself, but I won't press the issue here.
Post #2: The first thing you miss in that post is that I compare your current behavior in the thread to that in your previous game. (the first two paragraphs) There was a complete different between the way you posted in the beginning of this game and Slightly Normal Mini Mafia I. Only now, have you become more active in your postings. Is this because I called you out? Now onto the subpoints:
1. Yes GGQ and Kurumi and the others were on the list. But that was because they had contributed significantly or were seen as veterans - you had not done much analysis. In fact iGrok lumped you into his 'experienced players category' when you had been modkilled in his Sleeper Cell Mafia Game.
2. Same as Post #1.
3. My argument was that you were extremely hesistant and unwilling to associate yourself with either side. You seemed extremely unsure and unwilling to accept responsibility for your vote which piqued my interest as you seemed to wish to 'hide'.
Post #3: The key issue in this post was not GGQ's accusations. Its Pyo's collection of your posting history. A key thing to note is that you had not expressed a strong opinion on any issue. You had not advocated for a lynch or advocated for a plan or what not. In fact the only consistent thing in your posting history was your constant defense of iGrok and your suggestion that he not be lynched.
Post #4: This is where I accuse you of dodging accusations. I called you out repeatedly, and judging by the fact that you say you read back on grush's posts, I expect that you must have read those posts. Why did you delay responding until I forced you to respond? The reason is that you have been trying to hide and dodge those suspicions. Don't say that I am dodging accusations, when I am repeatedly calling you out.
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On June 13 2011 11:32 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:51 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:33 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:22 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:10 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:02 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 08:53 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote:Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those. On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote:I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons. First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now. To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day: Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok. Now to the differences between these three players: Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches. Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid... iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi. ___________________________ iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF. Second reasonThis shit convinced me + Show Spoiler +On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote:GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want Trust me that it's smart and good: No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players. The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town. iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused. Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though. Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players. Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear. So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum! Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is. In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself. Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now. Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok? Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok. In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so. On June 09 2011 07:20 grush57 wrote:
Yea, I don't really think he would be blue either. there, now do your own research without a stupid search function. now accusing of what, not voting on scum? guilty as charged but you have to come with more than that. Ok, I stand corrected on the quote issue. (That still doesn't clear grush by any means - he's only saying that iGrok probably isn't blue). But when I'm talking about accusations I mean responding to the following posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=52#1022Well as i stated before it was pretty much a 50/50 scum/blue flip i just don't really like talking about blues and i didn't feel like investigating the rest again. Day one lynch is most of the time wrong anyways. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=58#1157point one: GGQ,Kurumi and a few others are also on that list. Ty for bringing that up. It could very well be those are all townies. Igrok was positioning himself as head townie remember? Point two: same as first link Point three: Well igrok said something about at least one vet being in the mafia. I found that a very good theory. One of the two had to be mafia but i picked the wrong one. I dind't think igrok would put so much effort in appearing town while he was godfather. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=61#1212Jeah, really i don't know what GGQ was smoking but i didn't even talk about lafali once before i died http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=65#1286Especially considering that the last of the set of 4 posts is just 2 posts above one of yours and is on the same page where we have had such a nice conversation, it looks to me like you are dodging the accusations against yourself. So, i hope that's enough for now. I quoted my own posts a couple of times because you happened to 'skip by them' multiple times so I called you out asking you to respond multiple times. Only when I have finally pinned you down here have you finally responded to any attacks against yourself. So lets look at your responses: Post #1: Ok, so you voted to lynch rookie on the basis that it was a 50/50 and you didn't want to investigate anyone else further. That sounds fishy by itself, but I won't press the issue here. Post #2: The first thing you miss in that post is that I compare your current behavior in the thread to that in your previous game. (the first two paragraphs) There was a complete different between the way you posted in the beginning of this game and Slightly Normal Mini Mafia I. Only now, have you become more active in your postings. Is this because I called you out? Now onto the subpoints: 1. Yes GGQ and Kurumi and the others were on the list. But that was because they had contributed significantly or were seen as veterans - you had not done much analysis. In fact iGrok lumped you into his 'experienced players category' when you had been modkilled in his Sleeper Cell Mafia Game.
2. Same as Post #1.
3. My argument was that you were extremely hesistant and unwilling to associate yourself with either side. You seemed extremely unsure and unwilling to accept responsibility for your vote which piqued my interest as you seemed to wish to 'hide'.
Post #3: The key issue in this post was not GGQ's accusations. Its Pyo's collection of your posting history. A key thing to note is that you had not expressed a strong opinion on any issue. You had not advocated for a lynch or advocated for a plan or what not. In fact the only consistent thing in your posting history was your constant defense of iGrok and your suggestion that he not be lynched. Post #4: This is where I accuse you of dodging accusations. I called you out repeatedly, and judging by the fact that you say you read back on grush's posts, I expect that you must have read those posts. Why did you delay responding until I forced you to respond? The reason is that you have been trying to hide and dodge those suspicions. Don't say that I am dodging accusations, when I am repeatedly calling you out.
Hmm. I hadn't seen that iGrok added Vain to his "experienced player list" despite not really being experienced. Considering I've been doubting the grush57 vote a little its enough for me to switch.
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On June 13 2011 11:40 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 11:32 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:51 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:33 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:22 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:10 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:02 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 08:53 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote:Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those. On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:
[quote]
So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum! Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is. In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself. Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now. Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok? Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok. In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so. On June 09 2011 07:20 grush57 wrote:
Yea, I don't really think he would be blue either. there, now do your own research without a stupid search function. now accusing of what, not voting on scum? guilty as charged but you have to come with more than that. Ok, I stand corrected on the quote issue. (That still doesn't clear grush by any means - he's only saying that iGrok probably isn't blue). But when I'm talking about accusations I mean responding to the following posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=52#1022Well as i stated before it was pretty much a 50/50 scum/blue flip i just don't really like talking about blues and i didn't feel like investigating the rest again. Day one lynch is most of the time wrong anyways. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=58#1157point one: GGQ,Kurumi and a few others are also on that list. Ty for bringing that up. It could very well be those are all townies. Igrok was positioning himself as head townie remember? Point two: same as first link Point three: Well igrok said something about at least one vet being in the mafia. I found that a very good theory. One of the two had to be mafia but i picked the wrong one. I dind't think igrok would put so much effort in appearing town while he was godfather. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=61#1212Jeah, really i don't know what GGQ was smoking but i didn't even talk about lafali once before i died http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=65#1286Especially considering that the last of the set of 4 posts is just 2 posts above one of yours and is on the same page where we have had such a nice conversation, it looks to me like you are dodging the accusations against yourself. So, i hope that's enough for now. I quoted my own posts a couple of times because you happened to 'skip by them' multiple times so I called you out asking you to respond multiple times. Only when I have finally pinned you down here have you finally responded to any attacks against yourself. So lets look at your responses: Post #1: Ok, so you voted to lynch rookie on the basis that it was a 50/50 and you didn't want to investigate anyone else further. That sounds fishy by itself, but I won't press the issue here. Post #2: The first thing you miss in that post is that I compare your current behavior in the thread to that in your previous game. (the first two paragraphs) There was a complete different between the way you posted in the beginning of this game and Slightly Normal Mini Mafia I. Only now, have you become more active in your postings. Is this because I called you out? Now onto the subpoints: 1. Yes GGQ and Kurumi and the others were on the list. But that was because they had contributed significantly or were seen as veterans - you had not done much analysis. In fact iGrok lumped you into his 'experienced players category' when you had been modkilled in his Sleeper Cell Mafia Game.
2. Same as Post #1.
3. My argument was that you were extremely hesistant and unwilling to associate yourself with either side. You seemed extremely unsure and unwilling to accept responsibility for your vote which piqued my interest as you seemed to wish to 'hide'.
Post #3: The key issue in this post was not GGQ's accusations. Its Pyo's collection of your posting history. A key thing to note is that you had not expressed a strong opinion on any issue. You had not advocated for a lynch or advocated for a plan or what not. In fact the only consistent thing in your posting history was your constant defense of iGrok and your suggestion that he not be lynched. Post #4: This is where I accuse you of dodging accusations. I called you out repeatedly, and judging by the fact that you say you read back on grush's posts, I expect that you must have read those posts. Why did you delay responding until I forced you to respond? The reason is that you have been trying to hide and dodge those suspicions. Don't say that I am dodging accusations, when I am repeatedly calling you out. Hmm. I hadn't seen that iGrok added Vain to his "experienced player list" despite not really being experienced. Considering I've been doubting the grush57 vote a little its enough for me to switch.
Yep, right here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=19#377. Which is funny considering that Vain was modkilled in iGrok's game.
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REAAAAAAAALY sorry guys but i am very sick, I can't make analysis right now, and I promise to do it later.
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On June 13 2011 12:07 Munk-E wrote:
REAAAAAAAALY sorry guys but i am very sick, I can't make analysis right now, and I promise to do it later.
I predict a couple of responses like this will pop up in the next 45 minutes :o|.
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Omg did I make it in time? I just got home.
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holy hell freeloader that was insanely close 
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The town was screaming for blood, scum blood. After a the arguments went round and round a concensus was finally established. grush57 was to be lynched! As the hood was put over grush's head the town screamed "any last words scum?" A slow smile spread across grush's face. "You got lucky fools" he sneered. The town cheered at these words and yelled "no luck here!" The trap door was sprung and red blood flowed in the streets.
grush57 the mafia roleblocker has been killed
You have 24 hours to send in your night actions to Varpulis and me
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about time town got something right.
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Oh man I totally forgot today was day end and I rushed home and watched my computer load just in time. Haha <3 <3
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/W8CzD.jpg)
A large lightning storm has been spotted! Cherubael, Aril, senj, and monsterdrakar the Townies have been modkilled! 35spike1 and theawesomeall the mafia have been modkilled. sprungjeezy the veteran has been modkilled.
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EPT
