EPTI'll speak soon to your point about me, but for the time being, thanks for speaking up at all. As Mataza so astutely observed, as one of the most active thus far in the thread (in regard to post number, I'm sure a lot of what I've posted is viewed as fluff) I'm absolutely one of the strongest candidates for a murderation tomorrow night. Active scum-hunters, honestly, could be viewed as stronger targets than even blue roles at this point when we don't have any idea if there even ARE blue roles, let alone who occupies them.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia II - Page 2
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'll speak soon to your point about me, but for the time being, thanks for speaking up at all. As Mataza so astutely observed, as one of the most active thus far in the thread (in regard to post number, I'm sure a lot of what I've posted is viewed as fluff) I'm absolutely one of the strongest candidates for a murderation tomorrow night. Active scum-hunters, honestly, could be viewed as stronger targets than even blue roles at this point when we don't have any idea if there even ARE blue roles, let alone who occupies them. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Mataza: + Show Spoiler + Had initial scummy feeling, but maybe he's just aggressively trying to scum-hunt. Please note the following excerpt. At first i thought I would claim cop openly, but then I remembered that I just once saw a game where that ever worked. And boy how often it does not work. This means one of two things. A) He's a cop and accidentally outed himself in his very first line in the GAME (I'm inclined to disbelieve this based on posts since) B) He's admitting that no matter what role he was given, regardless of alignment, he had toyed with the idea of claiming cop from the very beginning. This isn't so much an indication of guilt as it is a reason his posts make my scum-sense tingle...I mean, unless he's cop I don't know a good way to read that first line...and if he IS a cop, well, that's not much better is it? Also, this guy has done the math on how many people need to die before mafia wins...watch carefully. Appears to be antagonizing people trying to learn the game... Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions. Further, he appears to be hanging inactives out to dry d1...which seems a little scummy to me considering the low chance of actually hitting a maf...especially if Mata IS red, as he'll know if/which inactives are red if any. Palmar: + Show Spoiler + Big post about how lynching greens is okay until d3...much like Mataza...but with an added twist. And as Mataza pointed out, no matter the setup, we do have available more than one mis-lynches, so even if we do stake a townie this first day, we aren't in any trouble really. And more importantly, even if the person that dies is green, then we at least already have very valuable information on the people that wanted him dead. I had less of a problem with what he said (as the logic is relatively sound) but more HOW he said it. Even if we stake a townie we aren't in trouble really. EVEN IF the person that dies is green. It seems to me that a reassuring soul would say 'Even if the person that dies is blue' which would be the worse case in this example. Weak read, but worth mentioning imho GiygaS: + Show Spoiler + Feels green except for how quickly he jumped on Mata after I even hinted at a reddish hue. This immediately AFTER a very friendly post encouraging people to post. Left me thinking 'Why, so you could immediately CAPSLOCKMAFIA them like Mata? Watch carefully. Mataza: + Show Spoiler + Okay, now I'm suspicious. After explaining why I PERSONALLY would remain calm if doubt was cast my direction, Mataza immediately gets defensive and after sprinkling blame on others for their "useless" posts that are "anti-town", requests that we hold off on blaming until after we hear from people. Imagine that. Oh, but at least that doesn't stop him from immediately casting my posts into doubt...almost as soon as he makes said request. I sense a FoS coming that I won't be able to contain. There are my notes. Some of it has been resolved, some of it has not. I don't so much suspect Palmar anymore as his tone seemed much more townie in his posts since. And while I don't like how QUICKLY GiygaS jumped on Mata, his reasoning is at least reasonable (imo) and as such has started to look more green to me. Everyone else' posts just don't scream RED the way Mataza's do. But as I've stated before, I'd vote if I felt sure enough. I'm not. Discuss. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Hopefully my post sheds some light on why it appears that I'm focusing (tunneling?) Mataza. I loathe to call it tunneling though as there isn't much else going on for me to even COMMENT on other than our little dialogue back and forth...but it's true, my only suspicion so far is Mataza. I'm interested to know what is suspicious about my posts ASIDE from my lack of content. Lack of content isn't scummy itself. It has to be accompanied by other outside factors (attempting to derail conversations, intent to confuse fencers to name a couple). | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Lots of discussion now - you getting all this? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I hope this doesn't read as backpedaling, but upon further analysis, I don't have enough faith in my read to really go any further with it. In spite of my misgivings, most everything he's said HAS appeared to be pro-town, except from when he was defending himself from me. I would like clarification of your first post though Mataza. What did you mean by 'I thought about claiming cop'...do you mean you thought about it before you knew your role? You thought about it after you recieved your role? I understand that it's quite a ways back (first post from you), but it would really ease my mind if you could clarify that one statement. On everything else I'll lay off. @stefftastic I'd really like to hear more from you as you have precious few posts and you're one of the remaining people who has yet to really give an opinion on anything. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
By CAPSLOCKMAFIA I was refering to how you appeared to call Mata Mafia at the end of that post, doing so in all caps. Those were my notes from last night, and as I said...some of it was resolved. Actually yours was mostly what I was referencing, as you had made an effort to apologize and had made it clear you were just joking at the time of the post. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##vote stefftastiq This is based upon comments in pregame about looking forward to playing, and the very few posts after it speaking otherwise. I understand that I can be quoted as being against policy-lynching inactives, but in this case it reads scummy to me and I'd like someone to post...something. All that has been posted so far has been analysis of one FoS and the fluff that comes with it. I'd like to see a few more FoS's, but even that is getting to be too late for today, and I don't think enough of us are active enough to get good solid evidence one way or the other. So here we are. Analyze this. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
The fact of the matter is that Mataza, while appearing guilty at first, had never really done anything OVERTLY anti-town. He suspected me of course, being one of the loudest voices opposing him...but that's only natural right? While I don't consider him "innocent as a newborn baby", I don't consider him guilty either. This is why I retracted my FoS on him and why I decided to instead cast my vote for an inactive to generate discussion. Luckily, yous guys didn't need my help as the discussion was obviously NOT generated by me, but rather by analysis and rationale. Kudos team. Honestly I don't care if that looks scummy or not. It had the desired effect. Now to analyze. Thanks to your diligence, I have lots to go back and read. Expect a full report soon. *salute* | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote: Yo people I see that people have started voting now, around 16 hours before deadline. This is not good people. Unvoting is very suspucious and there is still plenty of time for people to provide material to analyze. Of course some claim to do it for the sake of discussion but I still think that this is very bad. In addition to this I do not think that any of these votes are currently well founded, they are wild accusations at best. First of all, in my opinion, having perfect conviction and unerring foresight are NOT prerequisites to being a good townie. In fact, if people have it in their minds that unvoting is suspicious, they won't vote until someone tells them it's the right thing to do. People should make up their own minds and vote according to what they think is right for the town. And if that changes, that's totally fine. Unvoting isn't suspicious...what's suspicious is the TIMING of unvoting. I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. So wait...is it bad or is it good that people have removed focus? You appear to have nothing against Mataza from this passage, aside from the fact that people aren't focusing on him anymore. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? Further evidence that you're okay with Mataza...asking his advice as you feel he has qualities you can use to hunt scum. So I'm going to go ahead and do something that VisceraEyes has done several time. Point fingers at some random person for the sake of discussion. And this random person is going to be VisceraEyes himself. Some reasons (so it's not entirely random who I am pointing fingers at) for this: 1. He was the first person who point fingers at others. While he might have done this for the sake of discussion, I think that mostly scum would do this early on in the game. Townies would consider how the other person might be a townie and how unfounded accusations might harm the town, even if you made it clear that they are unfounded. While this is a game of finger pointing, and we can't all do it simultaneously...being the FIRST to point fingers shouldn't really be a scum-tell...SOMEONE is going to be first, and there's no reason to believe that it will be scum. 2. He is often analyzing his own actions. This is something I think you would (should) mainly do when you are scum. There is nothing to fear as a townie, only thing you have to consider is how the town can benefit the most from your actions. While we would all like to survive this game I think this is done best by being honest and only analytical of the actions of potential scum. I'm not sure what you mean by 'analyzing my own actions', but I've been nothing but honest and forthright with everyone from the beginning. Obviously there's no way to prove that, but I've also given you no reason to doubt me. 3. He has just something I would deem crazy to do if you were a townie. He suddenly said "this guy I have been bashing all game long, maybe he's not scum so I'm just gonna vote for someone and provide very limited rationale for this". This is not only very scum-like in my eyes, it is also harmful to the town. Okay, speaking to this...I had a scummy feeling about Mataza from the beginning, and I FoS'd him. I didn't 'bash' anyone 'all game long'. Not only that, but I shifted my focus OFF of someone you've spent a lot of this post BUILDING UP as someone useful for town. I fail to see how me NO LONGER SUSPECTING someone you feel is trustworthy would indicate scumminess. @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Off the hook? But...you....you said you....but...Guy, these contradictions are getting palpable. Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control  @Palmar : Why do you think Mataza is "innocent as a newborn baby"? Gutfeeling is not an acceptable answer Think that was it for now. I will try to vote around 4 hours before deadline. Finals notes on what I think all townies should currently be aware of: Lurking townies make it possible for scum to play lurker style too. I think everybody should get up and post some analysis, if you are a townie this is absolutely the best thing you can do. We still missing a couple of you but this is making the game very much harder for town! I would consider any of the prospective modkills (Skrammen, Wunder) showing up in the nick of time to cast crucial votes for the lynching VERY suspicious. Even if they decide to show up now I think they will be very harmful to town if they don't post a lot in a very short amount of time. It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces You talk a lot about being "In Control" of people...you don't control anyone my friend. And neither does the town. It is for this attitude and the thoughts posted in the quote above that I now FoS: prplhz | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Also, you say that you're going to vote for an inactive this lynch, yet you're suspicious of me for doing that very thing...for that very reason. I'm so confused it's ridiculous, and inciting confusion is something scummy people LOVE to do. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
No, I pointed out several inconsistencies in that post that I'd like you to answer. First of all, you called me out for 'pulling a 180' regarding Mata and voted for stefftastiq, an inactive non-poster who isn't helping town. And then what do you do? You cast your vote for an inactive non-poster who isn't helping town. Not only that, you find the fact that I no longer find Mata suspicious. But nearly 40% of that post was talking about how you...no longer find Mata suspicious. I guess you have no comment on these very clear cases of contradiction? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Also I find it interesting that the reason you gave for not commenting on things I said was that I just didn't agree with you. Yet the majority of the things I said were places where I point out where you AGREE with me...and you're most suspicious of me. As Mata said...Maf is most likely active and outspoken. I'm not wasting time on inactives. ##vote prplhz | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Unless 2 Maf are already voting for Skrammen. >.> <.< | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm pretty sure prplhz can speak for himself...unless he just doesn't need to cause you're on the same informed team.  | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
prplhz GiygaS Palmar I especially like the part where Palmar doesn't think anything I say is worth mentioning. This is my vote order people. Today I vote prplhz, tomorrow I vote Palmar, the following day I vote GiygaS. I will be doing no more analysis and I'll be skirting being mod-killed until I'm either lynched or murdered, just so there's another green inactive that they can coerce you all to lynch. gg Maf. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
[red]GiygaS prplhz Palmar[/r] Today is GiygaS, tomorrow is prplhz and d3 is Palmar. ##unvote prplhz ##Vote GiygaS | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
When all I hear is how none of my posts contain anything and basically everything I say can be ignored, I tend to clam up. If you're on board with me, vote GiygaS and see how he flips. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what you say. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
My list holds. They won't vote together if they think they can block it without doing so. That would look suspicious. If they think that they can block a good vote with just 2, they will. The fact that Karshe isn't sure of me is good...it means he's using his brain. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Keep in mind that Palmar is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of GiygaS and prplhz' innocence. | ||
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