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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:24 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:07 Radfield wrote:On May 21 2011 04:34 Ace wrote:
@GMarshal: If we don't lynch Incognito then who from the remaining players on the list is the second Scum? We have to clear that out first. Does ANYONE else on that list appear Scummier than Incognito? If so, vote for them. I'm not trying to be a dink here, but I don't fully understand why we need to clear the list out. I understand we need to eventually, but why right away, right now? We have the information, so it can wait for us to deal with it until we're ready. Our ultimate goal is to kill the mafia, so if targeting players on the list doesn't get that done the best, then we let it lie for now. No? No one really has a anti-town read on either Caller or flame, GMarshal seems town aligned, Incog seems town to a large portion, and Node doesn't seem particularly scummy. It seems to me that waiting a night cycle and putting some investigations on those remaining 5 is a prudent course of action. If mafia want to shoot players off the list, great. Better them than us. Also, GMarshall, it's a bit ironic that you mention no one is coming to Incogs defense, because actually quite a few players are. Myself, Barundar, yourself, tnkted, dreamflower and maybe a couple others. Mind you, in my mind those are almost mostly 'lock-solid townies'. We clear it out because we know 2 out of 6 are scum. Why would we go another direction when we already know where to look? That makes no sense. Secondly a "large portion" of town hasn't claimed Incog is innocent, especially looking at the voting thread so that point is false. If you don't have an anti-town read on Caller or flame, believe GMashal and Incog are town, and that Node doesn't seem Scummy then who does that leave?
Odds are even better because it's 2/5. So far Chaoser is the only one that sheds doubt upon the validity of the 2/5 (more due to mafia intervention with a framer than he doubts GMarshal). With all the nice KP roles for the mafia I find it hard to believe they would pick framer. Especially since if they wanted to hide themselves they'd be picking the GF roles instead of framer.
As what Ace said before, we need to clean up the list now because the odds are better than trying to hunt in the town pool. I don't see how you can make an argument against this, especially since it's only day 2 (it's not like we got 5 days of analysis to try to pin down mafia).
Anyone who tries to vote elsewhere or make analysis on other people than the 5 (6) in the list need to be looked at carefully once the list is sorted through. All you're doing at the moment is distracting the town. If we just focus on the list we can hopefully nail the 2 mafia without suffering town casualties. These paragraphs and paragraphs of analysis against myself, chaoser, KillerSOS are just cluttering up the town at the moment, and the people making these are mafia in my head because they are just trying to get the town off focus from the list.
If you think I'm mafia, or chaoser is mafia, or whoever is not on the list, great. I'm all for throwing analysis around. But geez just wait until the list is cleared up and stop cluttering the thread. Summarize your suspicion in one sentence and focus on someone on the list.
And before you jump on me for not doing this, I have wanted to kill Incog since yesterday, same reasons as Ace has stated, and that hasn't changed. If there still is a mafia on the list after Incog and Chez are dead I want to kill Node.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:24 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:07 Radfield wrote:On May 21 2011 04:34 Ace wrote:
@GMarshal: If we don't lynch Incognito then who from the remaining players on the list is the second Scum? We have to clear that out first. Does ANYONE else on that list appear Scummier than Incognito? If so, vote for them. I'm not trying to be a dink here, but I don't fully understand why we need to clear the list out. I understand we need to eventually, but why right away, right now? We have the information, so it can wait for us to deal with it until we're ready. Our ultimate goal is to kill the mafia, so if targeting players on the list doesn't get that done the best, then we let it lie for now. No? No one really has a anti-town read on either Caller or flame, GMarshal seems town aligned, Incog seems town to a large portion, and Node doesn't seem particularly scummy. It seems to me that waiting a night cycle and putting some investigations on those remaining 5 is a prudent course of action. If mafia want to shoot players off the list, great. Better them than us. Also, GMarshall, it's a bit ironic that you mention no one is coming to Incogs defense, because actually quite a few players are. Myself, Barundar, yourself, tnkted, dreamflower and maybe a couple others. Mind you, in my mind those are almost mostly 'lock-solid townies'. We clear it out because we know 2 out of 6 are scum. Why would we go another direction when we already know where to look? That makes no sense. Secondly a "large portion" of town hasn't claimed Incog is innocent, especially looking at the voting thread so that point is false. If you don't have an anti-town read on Caller or flame, believe GMashal and Incog are town, and that Node doesn't seem Scummy then who does that leave?
You're right, a large portion of town has not. You and GMarshall are right, it's only the last 2 pages or so that have come to incogs defense. You have to admit though, that the chances of either framer or Godfatherframer being in the game is fairly decent, and the chance of them framing incog(assuming they exist) is fairly good.
Mind you I'm not saying that's what happened, and I think there probably ARE two mafia in that list. My list right now from townie to scum is: GMarshall, Flamewheel = Incog, Caller, Node. The problem is, that the scummiest players on there (caller/node) don't strike me as all that scummy. I have a few scummy reads right now, alot of pro-town reads, and about 8 inbetweens. Hence, why not let our investigative roles do their job(we know we have GMarshal) and THEN start the firing lines.(Mind you, this raises all sorts of framer problems and suicide bombers problems)
Anyways, I'm not super hard against shooting into the list, I just think that waiting a bit and clearing out some of the other scummy chaff is a better move right now.
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perhaps activity isn't the right word... he's just not active in his usual way. It's more of a gut feeling.
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Ok, sorry I've been gone for so long, though I think it's worked a bit to our favor now that people are posting and discussing about what to do with my day-kill.
As it stands, it seems the town is mostly asking for either the kill of Incognito or KillerSOS and other lurkers.
First though, I want to address this:
On May 20 2011 21:13 tnkted wrote:
Ok. What the fuck is wrong with this town.
Wiggles, do not lynch incognito. It is clear that he isn't mafia. He's been contributing solid plans all game, with very precise, assertive language. He has posted scumlists. He has written HUGE posts, several times, and all of them were informative and helpful and steered town in... well, in directions if not in the best direction. A guided town is better than a chaotic town.
Wiggles, you should hit Caller or Flamewheel instead. Of the people on the list, Caller seems like most mafia to me. But it should be obvious from his posting style, and if not that, the fact that he posted his thoughts on half the players in the game as a goodbye note should sway you. Scum wouldn't bother; look at how chez is reacting to his imminent death.
Incog's actions today have me keeping a closer eye on him than before. Posting his thoughts on players doesn't make him town, especially when it only goes into depth on why some players are town, but not on his mafia suspects. That seems fishy to me, to spend so much time writing why people are green, but not spending any time writing why people are red, which is arguably more important. Saying scum wouldn't bother is WIFOM. Firstly, we don't know if Chez is red or not yet, and he's been acting this way the whole game. I don't think he would stop trolling and screwing around just because he was shot at. Secondly, there hasn't been real danger to Incognito yet. So, by making that post, it serves to make him look like a martyr, and gain town sympathies, without giving us too much information. However, this can't be construed to say too much about his alignment, just that he'd rather be alive than dead, while being very safe about it.
Incog's nuke also doesn't do too much to his credit. Let me say this: Killing Chezinu, like KillerSOS or other lurkers, is easy. It was an easy kill, because town was expressing suspicion of him and a desire to kill him with my king lynch. As well, he hasn't contributed much if anything to town so far, and was mostly dead weight. So, killing him doesn't take much thought to do.
All in all, Incog's posts today seem a lot like someone who is trying to look green. Right now, I'm not sure what that says about his alignment though, but I'm leaning more towards town at the moment from his behaviour on Day 1.
That said, I don't think I'll kill Incog right now. I'd rather leave him alive, and at the mercy of the lynch.
So, I'll probably be killing KillerSOS, but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on Chaoser/ON within the next hour or so, I'll take that into consideration.
Now, as for GM's list. Personally, I think that one of the players on it were framed. Just looking through the players on it, it doesn't look like any of them besides Chezinu were obvious scum. FW, Caller, and GM are all near the top of the queue list, and there was a desire to check people near the top of the list. As well, Incog and Node both had suspicions cast on them on Day 1. This made all 6 of the players likely candidates for alignment checks, and further frames. At least, that's how I'm viewing it at the moment.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:45 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:24 Ace wrote:On May 21 2011 05:07 Radfield wrote:On May 21 2011 04:34 Ace wrote:
@GMarshal: If we don't lynch Incognito then who from the remaining players on the list is the second Scum? We have to clear that out first. Does ANYONE else on that list appear Scummier than Incognito? If so, vote for them. I'm not trying to be a dink here, but I don't fully understand why we need to clear the list out. I understand we need to eventually, but why right away, right now? We have the information, so it can wait for us to deal with it until we're ready. Our ultimate goal is to kill the mafia, so if targeting players on the list doesn't get that done the best, then we let it lie for now. No? No one really has a anti-town read on either Caller or flame, GMarshal seems town aligned, Incog seems town to a large portion, and Node doesn't seem particularly scummy. It seems to me that waiting a night cycle and putting some investigations on those remaining 5 is a prudent course of action. If mafia want to shoot players off the list, great. Better them than us. Also, GMarshall, it's a bit ironic that you mention no one is coming to Incogs defense, because actually quite a few players are. Myself, Barundar, yourself, tnkted, dreamflower and maybe a couple others. Mind you, in my mind those are almost mostly 'lock-solid townies'. We clear it out because we know 2 out of 6 are scum. Why would we go another direction when we already know where to look? That makes no sense. Secondly a "large portion" of town hasn't claimed Incog is innocent, especially looking at the voting thread so that point is false. If you don't have an anti-town read on Caller or flame, believe GMashal and Incog are town, and that Node doesn't seem Scummy then who does that leave? You're right, a large portion of town has not. You and GMarshall are right, it's only the last 2 pages or so that have come to incogs defense. You have to admit though, that the chances of either framer or Godfatherframer being in the game is fairly decent, and the chance of them framing incog(assuming they exist) is fairly good. Mind you I'm not saying that's what happened, and I think there probably ARE two mafia in that list. My list right now from townie to scum is: GMarshall, Flamewheel = Incog, Caller, Node. The problem is, that the scummiest players on there (caller/node) don't strike me as all that scummy. I have a few scummy reads right now, alot of pro-town reads, and about 8 inbetweens. Hence, why not let our investigative roles do their job(we know we have GMarshal) and THEN start the firing lines.(Mind you, this raises all sorts of framer problems and suicide bombers problems) Anyways, I'm not super hard against shooting into the list, I just think that waiting a bit and clearing out some of the other scummy chaff is a better move right now.
You'd rather crapshoot into the townie pool (what I mean is the remaining players excluding the list) based off of 2 days of posts than take a 40% chance of hitting mafia?
You can't save your scum buddies here. Way too late now.
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DON'T KILL KILLERSOS
Wiggles kill node, we need to keep things focused on the 5 people on the kavwagon. PLZ don't kill KillerSOS, if you don't wanna kill node then at least kill incog.
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Well if we wait to clear out the list then who is the Scummy chaffe? Chaoser, KillerSOS and Node?
I agree that there probably does exist a Framer or GF or something to mess up reads. If enough people speak up and say they don't find anyone other than Chezinu scummy then we may have to re-evaluate where to look and that would resolve that GMarshal's list got tampered with.
But whether it did or didn't happen it doesn't clear Incognito's scummy actions. That imo is the lynch pin to this entire thing. Even on Day 1 when I unvoted him I was tinkering on him just being borderline scum and messing up my read. But the quickness with which he nuked Chezinu just doesn't add up to me.
Other than that, if we look elsewhere the case against chaoser doesn't make sense. KillerSOS is the safe lynch since he's been lurking and is probably best left for the King lynch. This way we can somewhat do "both things at once" - normal lynch for the GM list, King lynch for the chaffe.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:45 Foolishness wrote:
If there still is a mafia on the list after Incog and Chez are dead I want to kill Node.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not dead set against this. But when does it stop? If only 1 of Incog, chez and node flip red, are we gonna lynch caller, flame and GM? At some point we need to accept that there are a number of alignment changing roles that could be in the game.
Also, as I mentioned before, I don't trust my judgment concerning Incog as he's fooled me before. Him being lynched isn't the end of the world, and gives us some strong information at the worst(no matter the flip).
+ Show Spoiler +
Where the F is the politician. I honestly cannot see why mafia would take kingmaker and not politician. It's pointless. My current assumption is that the mafia politician is an inactive, and that the mafia actually planned to have the politician lynch by now....
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Well, I haven't been notified of being taken over yet. As well, I didn't know my kill acted like a vig, I thought it was simply and additional lynch at the end of the day.
So, if we want to act before the politician, we should act quickly.
If I had to choose one of the players from the Kav list, and assuming the validity of it, it would be one of Node or Incog. Neither looks particularly scummy, it's just that I have stronger town reads on the other players present.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:54 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:45 Foolishness wrote:
If there still is a mafia on the list after Incog and Chez are dead I want to kill Node. To be perfectly clear, I'm not dead set against this. But when does it stop? If only 1 of Incog, chez and node flip red, are we gonna lynch caller, flame and GM? At some point we need to accept that there are a number of alignment changing roles that could be in the game. Also, as I mentioned before, I don't trust my judgment concerning Incog as he's fooled me before. Him being lynched isn't the end of the world, and gives us some strong information at the worst(no matter the flip). + Show Spoiler +
Where the F is the politician. I honestly cannot see why mafia would take kingmaker and not politician. It's pointless. My current assumption is that the mafia politician is an inactive, and that the mafia actually planned to have the politician lynch by now....
If town has been following the plan there will be other DT related checks on other people tonight. If someone finds mafia, of course we break from the list and kill them.
Besides, GMarshal will die tonight.
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On May 21 2011 05:57 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:54 Radfield wrote:On May 21 2011 05:45 Foolishness wrote:
If there still is a mafia on the list after Incog and Chez are dead I want to kill Node. To be perfectly clear, I'm not dead set against this. But when does it stop? If only 1 of Incog, chez and node flip red, are we gonna lynch caller, flame and GM? At some point we need to accept that there are a number of alignment changing roles that could be in the game. Also, as I mentioned before, I don't trust my judgment concerning Incog as he's fooled me before. Him being lynched isn't the end of the world, and gives us some strong information at the worst(no matter the flip). + Show Spoiler +
Where the F is the politician. I honestly cannot see why mafia would take kingmaker and not politician. It's pointless. My current assumption is that the mafia politician is an inactive, and that the mafia actually planned to have the politician lynch by now....
If town has been following the plan there will be other DT related checks on other people tonight. If someone finds mafia, of course we break from the list and kill them. Besides, GMarshal will die tonight.
Why? Are You saying that there are no protection roles? It is obvious to protect our Listcheck DT.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:59 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:57 Foolishness wrote:On May 21 2011 05:54 Radfield wrote:On May 21 2011 05:45 Foolishness wrote:
If there still is a mafia on the list after Incog and Chez are dead I want to kill Node. To be perfectly clear, I'm not dead set against this. But when does it stop? If only 1 of Incog, chez and node flip red, are we gonna lynch caller, flame and GM? At some point we need to accept that there are a number of alignment changing roles that could be in the game. Also, as I mentioned before, I don't trust my judgment concerning Incog as he's fooled me before. Him being lynched isn't the end of the world, and gives us some strong information at the worst(no matter the flip). + Show Spoiler +
Where the F is the politician. I honestly cannot see why mafia would take kingmaker and not politician. It's pointless. My current assumption is that the mafia politician is an inactive, and that the mafia actually planned to have the politician lynch by now....
If town has been following the plan there will be other DT related checks on other people tonight. If someone finds mafia, of course we break from the list and kill them. Besides, GMarshal will die tonight. Why? Are You saying that there are no protection roles? It is obvious to protect our Listcheck DT.
Scamp claimed Inventor in thread and wasn't protected. Obviously we have no medic. Even if we do we might as well just pretend we don't.
Assuming mafia have 2 kills (same as last night) they will double stack on GMarshal anyways. They can't afford any more vote checks.
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On May 21 2011 05:54 Ace wrote:
Other than that, if we look elsewhere the case against chaoser doesn't make sense. KillerSOS is the safe lynch since he's been lurking and is probably best left for the King lynch. This way we can somewhat do "both things at once" - normal lynch for the GM list, King lynch for the chaffe.
This. I can save Chaoser for tomorrow if town insist on lynching into the list, but we get way more out of a proper vote between those than just killing them all off.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
But yes, if we do happen to have a medic and GMarshal lives another vote check will just put us in an even better situation.
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I think our King's vote should be on KillerSOS or OriginalName,because Fishball+Chaoser started acting and Eiii has excuse similar to Chaoser(I think he will redeem himself soon,so I'd leave him for another day) I will leave my lynch vote on KillerSOS though,just to make expression who from Lurkeys I would like to see king lynched.
#Vote KillerSOS
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Of the people on the list, the only person I feel comfortable calling scum is Chezinu. I think trying to clear the list out now as opposed to making DT checks tonight would result in bad things overall, especially when you consider the possibility of a Framer. Of course, my viewpoint is a little biased. I do think that it's ludicrous to say that the Framer wouldn't be a good choice for the mafia -- there was a lot of discussion pre-rolepick regarding the Mafia II Detective and it should be obvious now how much chaos the role could create.
I'm not getting a very positive read on Flamewheel, but I don't feel comfortable saying that he should die. He hasn't been posting enough, period, but the posts he has made are giving me a pro-town vibe.
Wigggles did have a good point in that Incognito hasn't done much lately in the way of hunting scum, just calling people town, and I agree with Ace that using America the way he did was not a pro-town move. However, I think overall Incognito has had a net-positive effect on the town, but made a couple of bad decisions on the way. There are people out there far more scummy than him, IMO (*cough* Foolishness *cough*).
I'm unsure why Meapak thinks that I would be the best lynch, and it's weird how he comes off a little desperate for it. (please, Wiggles, don't kill KillerSOS, lynch node! i'm begging you!)
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lol no I'm not desperate, notice I'm voting KillerSOS in the voting thread. What I want to do is to clear up this whole deal with the 2/6 mafia voting for Kav. Chez is 100% dying so that leaves us with you, Caller, Incog, GM, and FW. Unfourtunately for you, you are the scummiest out of that bunch. If Wiggles kills you and the nuke kills Chez than we've netted two scum. There is of course the possibility of a framer or that you or Chez are town but at some point it all becomes extreme WIFOM. Right now we need to take action and see some flips in order to have a better idea for our collective lynch.
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Sorry I cant be as active as Id like, i was up the past 48 hours yesterday and i still have to work. ill try to keep up with my phone, but i cant promise anything.
watcher gets info in the form of numbers, not names. Im not going to say anything beyond that yet. It will come to fruition soon.
I'm fairly certain GM is town, so the list seems like a very valid option for us. Incog and node are obviously the highest targets. I dont see why we wouldn't, i was initially against incogs lynch because he was very helpful but the majority of people who seem to make good decisions seem to believe its an act. I can see that to an extent. perhaps incog should claim?
KillerSOS is a meh ynch to me, but i wouldn't be suprised if he popped mafia. I would love to do a complete analysis on chaoser for wiggles, but i dont have the time. Chaoser is an avid and simple poster as town. I'd say his mafia play is mostly defensive and safe. His last post was this I think?
On May 21 2011 00:04 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 18:16 Incognito wrote:
My confidence on Chaoser being red is 95%. Not like you'll trust me anymore, but just sayin' Wait so why am I mafia again? Because I was inactive? You know, coag threw out numbers on why he thought I was mafia in toy factory mafia and never gave real reasons either. I ended up flipping green. Both you and bum have been doing that as well this game; I haven't seen a single analysis post on me from anyone. I was busy at the start of the game and tried to pressure GM like I did to Irish in XXXIX. He overreacted a bit and then explained himself well so I backed off. Now that I've caught up a decent amount I decide to write a big post on foolishness to pressure him because yes his posting IS weird and I get hit with the "you are scum" bat? Yeah the post was sudden but that's only cause I've finally read enough to have an informed opinion on what I'm writing about. How is that scummy? Until someone writes up a real piece of analysis against me I'm going to be sending my time looking at others.
Pretty much as defensive as you can get. But mostly it was his activity and posting before the role picking ended. Mafia needs to focus on their draft and roles, and an average poster would find it hard to make quality posts and discuss things with his buddies at the same time. This is from experience. Incog goes against this, but he is very active, and this does not apply to everyone. It applies to chaoser. He can say he was busy then, but his posting then
On May 15 2011 07:57 chaoser wrote:
pick town roles, kill anyone found with anti town roles, how hard is that? Denying opens a whole can of WIFOM worms. Did he pick to deny? or did he pick it to use? I guess if you did pick to deny, you should claim in thread so that we can keep an eye on you.
On May 16 2011 01:39 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Inventor should be making exclusively bulletproof vests. We cannot guarantee that Scamp is pro-town, therefore it is essential that we make sure he only hands out the most pro-town inventions. Bulletproof vests are excellent for town, and mediocre-poor to mafia Mafia has a lot of cover power this game, there's like 4-5 roles that just let you hide your alignment/role. We can't rely on blue investigation to pull us through, Not to mention inventor will probs not live very long. I'd rather the inventor make more useful stuff than bulletproof vests. Show nested quote +Assassin is an awesome pro-town role, and mostly useless to the mafia unless combined with a mafia role cop. How is Assassin protown? It's basically a CV for mafia since they can just name GREEN everyone. For townie it's like a one time DT role that confirms one person outright with the potential to KP a lot of shit. Show nested quote +Should you succeed in your hit, you are refunded your kill to use again in the following cycle or later and nobody is the wiser. Should you fail, your target lives but you and your actions will be publically outted, your intended target outted, and you will permanently lose your powers.
These are his meatiest posts in the draft/role portion. This is a scum trying to seem like he's in the discussion where is using his real limited time figuring out exactly what his team is going to do.
Thats all i got ill try to check in before the lynch goes off.
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I think the three players you listed, KillerSOS, chaoser and ON, are fine kills. I dont see how any townie could defend them. ( HINT ID GO WITH CHAOSER BECUASE HE IS GETTING DEFENDED GASP)
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Meapak you have hosted too many games to rely on blue roles to win the game. Do you really want town to quit all scum hunting for 2-3 days because we have a listcheck? This isn't about killing townies faster than mafia can.
Wiggles I love your posts, but you disappear all time  . I got a headache and it's midnight here so I'll head to bed. Switching my vote from the assumption you will vigi KillerSOS.
My thoughts on the targets:
Incognito: A lot of suspicion against him that I don't think will disappear easily. Has a dangerous role. I can understand people wanting him dead, but he seem clear town to me.
Node: Always feel like he is picking up on the latest trend when posting, but doesn't seem to be hiding.
Flamewheel: Last post was pretty good, and I really haven't looked too much into him. Chezinu wrote he was always town, he picked the [3] missing in my scum list, and I'm not sure I trust he picked JOAT. Posting = town, circumstantial stuff suspicious.
Caller: Wants us to kill him. Good analysis of Kavdragon, albeit wrong.
All of them are shitty options.
##Vote Node
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EPT
