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On May 17 2011 00:27 dreamflower wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 17:36 bumatlarge wrote:
Well, also I believe we can rely heavily that a lot of mafia in the beginning will be rather quiet unless they are superactive, because you will want to spend every moment you get discussing exactly what you are doing with your team. Therefore I'm going to scope out suspects based on small posting with a clear sign of having interests elsewhere during the drafting and role picking stages. The offenders of this I find to be: I do apologize for not having posted a great deal since the game started. It's been a while since my last game of Mafia, and I feel extremely rusty and deeply unwilling to just post for the sake of posting when I really don't know what I'm talking about. (Admittedly, Ver's crazy setup hasn't helped either. Plan-concocting has never been my strength, and I can't get my head around the long list of possible and possibly imbalanced roles.) Thus, I've started reading over PYP 3 to see what did and didn't work in a previous PYP game. Hopefully that'll acclimate me more toward playing PYP Mafia games and help me contribute better. In the meantime, I will respond to this: Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 15:43 Ace wrote:
Anyone else that didn't claim numbers should soon. I'm surprised no one has made a big deal about number clashing yet like in PYP 1. With so many unique numbers at the top and a bunch of clashes from 16 on down I think focusing our investigations into the clashing sets is a good start.
We somewhat have an idea of what should be in the top slots so if any bad actions that were already discussed happen we know where to look. There are a lot of numbers clashing, for sure. Considering the Mafia can coordinate with each other to avoid their numbers clashing and being bumped down to the bottom, where they're less likely to grab the most valuable roles, I think at least half the people who chose 4 and 9 (the numbers that clashed the most often) are probably town. In a setup like this, I doubt the Mafia would want to be pushed toward the bottom by picking the same numbers as each other.
Well, on the other hand, people kept posting 'do not get this role if you are a townie' lists, which contained the best mafia roles. Mafia knows that no townie is gonna pick any of those roles, which means that they could EASILY have gotten later spots and still gotten two GFs, a framer, and other good check-blocking roles.
For such a plan, mafia would want HIGH numbers (or numbers likely to be last, like 1-1) in an effort to stay out of the dt-check-drawing environment that is the top 5 or 6. As it turned out, fours and nines fell toward the bottom; neither are very high digits.
Of course, I don't know much about PYP. Has this sort of thing happened before?
(btw i was kidding about the wiggles vote)
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My thoughts so far today:
@Incognito votes, I don't see what he is doing as more than putting pressure on people, which is just one way to gather information. I would like some more reasons for voting Kurumi though, as Kurumi got himself mislynched day 1, when put under pressure in the current standard game. On the other hand he writes in a way so I can only make sense of half of it.
@GM I can't talk for others, but I noticed that you suggested a plan that involves #6 to pick thief, but when you end up #6 yourself, and people assign you thief, you respond with: My mayor issue with this "select roles for spots" deal now is the fact that the draft order is already out, meaning that the mafia is free to propose whatever they wish, and land whatever juicy roles they want.
I find it curious that when your own proposition corresponds to the one you get offered, you shoot it down as mafia influenced.
@OriginalName I can't help but notice you stay silent through the first 48 hours when we discuss plans, but when the planning phase is over, you go out and question if the planning is worth it in your first substantial post. And in the same post you manage to call control plans both pro town and anti town.
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On May 16 2011 23:22 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 19:40 Chezinu wrote:
Question: If the Editor says a codeword that activates a bomb but then edits his post before you (the host) reads it, does the bomb go off? Y U So Mafia?!
That's why You voted on Chezinu? Looks like asking questions is forbidden,man this game is hard.
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On May 17 2011 00:34 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 00:33 Kavdragon wrote:
Also, while I disagree with lynching GMarshal today, on the basis that his true colors WILL show pretty obviously with time, and while I think his behavior is suspicious, he can be a valuable asset to the town.
I have held this opinion for a while now: I don't like lynching potentially valuable players day 1. Day 1 is easy to mess up, it's not worth the risk. I'm sure there are better targets out there, like, for instance, Node. I'll post more on that later though. While I'm glad you don't want to lynch me, I have to ask, what part of my behavior is "suspicious"?
You aren't acting like your normal townie. In all the games I've watched you in, you've been really obvious when you are townie, and I'm not getting that yet. My current read is that you are on a mafia team that knows/thinks that if you talk a lot, you will be obvious scum, so they are telling to be quiet. But again, day 1 reads are iffy, so I'd rather not lynch a player who has the potential to help the town a lot.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 01:09 Barundar wrote:@GM I can't talk for others, but I noticed that you suggested a plan that involves #6 to pick thief, but when you end up #6 yourself, and people assign you thief, you respond with: Show nested quote +My mayor issue with this "select roles for spots" deal now is the fact that the draft order is already out, meaning that the mafia is free to propose whatever they wish, and land whatever juicy roles they want. I find it curious that when your own proposition corresponds to the one you get offered, you shoot it down as mafia influenced.
Not at all, but I stated that a denial plan would only be useful if we all agreed to it, I was under the impression that the town decision was "If someone takes an anti-town role they will be lynched" so I followed the plan that it seemed we had agreed on. Had we all agreed to follow my denial plan I would have gone with it.
@Kav and me laying low, the thing is the moment I busted out a plan I thought was decent I got put on the "Ignore this player" list by one person and called bad by another three, there are a lot of vet players here and I'm out of my usual turf, as asking questions to generate town activity clearly isn't going to be an important part of getting the town to work together, and prodding inactives is not going to be that important either with all the experienced players in this game.
@Kav on the vote rigger, I still think it helps the Mafia II detective a lot if we split the town into four camps, as it means he dosn't have to worry about lists that overlap and such, it also eliminates the "threat" of the vote rigger, so I think its a good idea to use him today.
I think thats everything I wanted to address, other than the fact that chaoser isn't being as active as I'm used to seeing him, which for now merits a FoS.
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On May 16 2011 23:41 Incognito wrote:
Whoever is the vote rigger should rig the votes into 4 sections of roughly equal sizes. Try to spread out the people with the same numbers onto different lists.
Well first I think, before the vote rigger does this, the day they want to change he vote, they should claim in thread if they're going to do this. Second, I think just randomly making lists isn't that great a plan. Instead we should wait till we have a suspects list and then do a regular vote while moving the people we suspect onto a separate person/vote. We either catch a few mafia or check some people. That being said, we should be wary of roles that can cover themselves which I want to ask Ver about:
Which roles won't get caught by a votecheck?
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On May 17 2011 01:10 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 23:22 Fishball wrote:On May 16 2011 19:40 Chezinu wrote:
Question: If the Editor says a codeword that activates a bomb but then edits his post before you (the host) reads it, does the bomb go off? Y U So Mafia?! That's why You voted on Chezinu? Looks like asking questions is forbidden,man this game is hard.
I don't expect you to see what I see nor think as I think, and I'm not going into oh-so-in-depth explanations for everything I do.
At the end, I act as I please; Feel free to interpret it any way you want.
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I think right now it's best to just get a few main suspects, and then attempt to split all of our votes between them. Scummiest gets the lynch, vote checking DT gets a few lists.
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On May 16 2011 17:50 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 17:12 Node wrote:On May 16 2011 16:17 Scamp wrote:
Also are you suggesting we should be looking at at least one person who picked a low first number? This looked like a more general question. Yes, I realize there's a "you" there, but a) it's relevant to how we collectively proceed and b) I don't see what you have to gain by having a specific person answer it. I think it's fairly obvious that I have suspicions of KillerSOS so I wanted him to explain himself, is all.
I think it's fairly obvious that you are just spitting out nonsense.
Would you like to explain yourself?
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On May 17 2011 02:54 Ace wrote:
I think right now it's best to just get a few main suspects, and then attempt to split all of our votes between them. Scummiest gets the lynch, vote checking DT gets a few lists.
This sounds like a somewhat better alternative to me.
There's a couple problems I see with the vote-rigger plan right now (some of which can be addressed):
1. The vote rigger basically decides the lynch it looks like, so we must have a good idea for who we're lynching before the vote-rigger should use his power. This can be remedied by actually talking about the lynch and coming to a consensus then having the vote-rigger act at least past the halfway point of the day.
2. The vote rigger's power may only be used once. So, we must determine when it is best to use it. Either right away, or after a day or two, when player numbers have been reduced and we have a better idea of who we think are suspicious. I'm personally in favour of waiting until Day 2 at least.
3. We don't know who's suspicious, and who isn't right now, or at least, we don't have a great idea at the moment. So, trying to put a lot of suspicious players into the same voting bloc isn't going to work nearly as well when all those suspicions are based off day 1 reads, which have a history of not being incredibly accurate.
The M2DT has three vote-checks, but the vote rigger can only act once. So, if we manage to not have too many people being the only person voting for someone, and have decent amounts of people in different voting blocs, the M2DT can still use his power at most twice before the vote rigger needs to act. Then, whenever the vote-rigger wishes to act, and comes forward, the M2DT can lay out his results so far so we can cross-check them, and come up with an ideal vote-check list for the Vote rigger to create. (This is assuming medics so that the M2DT survives the night)
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...Since GM isn't doing it...
Its time for some GM style pressure!
Chaoser, deconduo, and Caller: who do you think the 3 most suspicious players are, and why?
GM: you said that the reason you aren't acting like a townie (as you usually do) is because you're intimidated by the amount of experienced players that are playing. Why didn't you act intimidated in sleeper cell mafia, in which ace, bum, rean, and several other experienced players were playing?
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United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 03:53 tnkted wrote:
...Since GM isn't doing it...
Its time for some GM style pressure!
Chaoser, deconduo, and Caller: who do you think the 3 most suspicious players are, and why?
GM: you said that the reason you aren't acting like a townie (as you usually do) is because you're intimidated by the amount of experienced players that are playing. Why didn't you act intimidated in sleeper cell mafia, in which ace, bum, rean, and several other experienced players were playing?
Different levels, the only "vet" I was uncomfortable with/hadn't played with before was Ace, in this roster of players the majority are experienced people I haven't played with in the past. Incog, fw, dreamflower, etc, are all players I know to be excellent, and who I don't really have a meta read on because they haven't played in a while, so I really don't know how to handle them. Maybe intimidation is not the word, I just don't really have a handle on the situation yet. Also I'm terrified of running afoul of Ver's "don't spam" rule, so I'm trying to make each one of my posts at least somewhat substantial, rather than replying to every post I see/
Also because I'm in the mood, I'll answer your questions.
1.) Chaoser- this might seem OMGUS, but his vote on me is entirely out of character, chaoser never just goes for an "easy" vote, yet he jumped on me for what I see as poor reasoning, something is off
2.) Node- none of his posts stand out/are memorable to me, usually thats the sign of scum.
3.) Fishball- "I'll do as I please" is the perfect reasoning for mafia to do whatever they please without explanation, and is inherently anti-town, I know sometimes it can be a drag to explain to the town why whatever it is you are doing is obviously good, but refusal to do so is also the sign of scum who don't want to justify their actions.
Let me turn the question around on you though tnkted, who are your top two town reads and why? Who in the top six picks do you think is most likely to be mafia and why?
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Chaoser- this might seem OMGUS, but his vote on me is entirely out of character, chaoser never just goes for an "easy" vote, yet he jumped on me for what I see as poor reasoning, something is off
I just did this in XXXIX on Irish lol...why all the sweating? People place votes on people all the time. Look at Incog's on Kurumi. I didn't even attach a reason behind my vote, a mere meme was written. How can you see poor reasoning when there is no real reasoning lol? Overreaction much?
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Since I have hour left to my bedtime(school's hardwork,and You know it when You wake up at 6:30 am,but I might make some exception based on thread's activity) I need to take an action and place my vote somewhere. I think putting it on myself would be a waste just to show that I am active and I actually play in this Mafia Game(aka avoiding modkill)
The person I am suspicious of is Fishball.
Most of his posts are one-liners and questions he could answer himself with a 5 min read through the thread. That means nothing of course, but shows how lazy and careless he is right now :p
When we were discussing about inventions he came up with following one:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 03:24 Fishball wrote:
I like an item that reveals the number of moles in the game, the only unknown variable.
I know it is kinda neat to know how many people will change their alignment on Day 3,but does that help us much? Is it this-is-important-invention-now? Rather not. The thing is there's no point in searching for moles now because there is no way we can actually prove someone's a mole,because he/she does not even know if he/she is one,that also means their pick will be more town-oriented,which means they don't pose as big threat as starting mafioso,who aimed for mafia-oriented roles from the very beginning. The point is: the true red will have more scary role than a mole,thus being bigger priority.
Did he want to confuse the inventor? Make him waste an invention? Why?
+ Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 03:29 Fishball wrote:
Don't matter.
I want to know how many, no matter the number.
On May 16 2011 03:31 Fishball wrote:
But it makes me happy.
Fiine.. But we have an objective here and it is not rather "make Yourself as happy as possible" but lynch the scum. Again this does not mean anything,but why would Fishball like to see invention like that?
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:32 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 01:10 Kurumi wrote:On May 16 2011 23:22 Fishball wrote:On May 16 2011 19:40 Chezinu wrote:
Question: If the Editor says a codeword that activates a bomb but then edits his post before you (the host) reads it, does the bomb go off? Y U So Mafia?! That's why You voted on Chezinu? Looks like asking questions is forbidden,man this game is hard. I don't expect you to see what I see nor think as I think, and I'm not going into oh-so-in-depth explanations for everything I do. At the end, I act as I please; Feel free to interpret it any way you want.
He still didn't justify his Chezinu vote. Is it pressure? A trick?
Why he hides under "Not Your interest,go away"? Also I don't want You to go in-depth with everything but votes are certainly something which we shouldn't throw around.
I am going to vote for Fishball now,because he is suspicious in my opinion,it does not need to mean he is scum,but he should have a reasoning behind his actions.
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On May 17 2011 04:27 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Chaoser- this might seem OMGUS, but his vote on me is entirely out of character, chaoser never just goes for an "easy" vote, yet he jumped on me for what I see as poor reasoning, something is off I just did this in XXXIX on Irish lol...why all the sweating? People place votes on people all the time. Look at Incog's on Kurumi. I didn't even attach a reason behind my vote, a mere meme was written. How can you see poor reasoning when there is no real reasoning lol? Overreaction much?
Not at all, I don't mind being voted on, I just don't remember you doing this kind of stuff ^_^
What bothered me was that, the lack of reasoning, if it was just a pressure vote then I understand perfectly, I thought you had an actual grievance with my categorization of the jack 
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you even hosted XXXIX...you said before that it was due to poor reasoning, but now you've changed it to lack of reasoning, which one is it? You've played with me before to know when I actually vote someone I try and make a case against them, not just "Y U SAY CHUIU JACK IS PROMAFIA?"
Kinda weird that you would think it's anything but pressure
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Are we really going to try to base a plan around rigging the votes and getting a votecheck? What happened to "let's treat this as a normal game until someone claims"?
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United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 04:34 chaoser wrote:
you even hosted XXXIX...you said before that it was due to poor reasoning, but now you've changed it to lack of reasoning, which one is it? You've played with me before to know when I actually vote someone I try and make a case against them, not just "Y U SAY CHUIU JACK IS PROMAFIA?"
Kinda weird that you would think it's anything but pressure
Which is why I was weirded out, I was like "Is he really voting for me because I said that the jack is a good pick for the mafia? wtf is he smoking?" Chalk it up to whatever you wish, at this point there's not much to discuss here other than I though that you were reading much more into one of my post than you should, not realizing it wasn't a serious accusations. I felt it was kind of like when sand decided in Experimental Mafia II that me asking questions was 100% scummy, no matter what I said. Either way I feel like this discussion is derailing us from actual scum hunting.
I'd like it if you answered the questions that tnkted asked earlier.
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i'm going to ignore all of your posts to say this:
I'm not going to say anything if I don't need to say it. And quite frankly, I don't see a need to start jabbing at suspects on day 1, the day where historically we're most likely going to end up lynching a townie. I'll let you guys run rampant for a bit because I'm not familiar with a lot of you guyz posting styles. this is how I roll.
If I say something, pay close attention to it. This game isn't about roles, its about peoples, so trying to play to roles is silly. Sure roles are nice and all, but its not mafia if there was no serious analysis done. And trying to do Day 1 analysis without any other information is stupid.
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On May 17 2011 04:36 Foolishness wrote:
Are we really going to try to base a plan around rigging the votes and getting a votecheck? What happened to "let's treat this as a normal game until someone claims"?
I would hope not. I say play this out normally, but pay attention to people who are randomly throwing single votes out and refuse to vote with any group. If that continues past one day, I'd say it's someone trying to avoid vote check.
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EPT
