EPTCool beans.
Things just got less insane and balanced
Pick Your Power Insane! - Page 22
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
Cool beans. Things just got less insane and balanced | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On May 16 2011 04:18 flamewheel wrote: I'm going to be taking a page out of Ace's book, since I don't feel like getting into arguments that don't matter. I'll say each of the following once, and I'm not going to deal with them again until they become relevant with data. Numbers aren't important yet, but they will be soon. bumatlarge (by the way, I still pronounce your name as "boom-at-large"), I agree with you on a vast majority of your listing, though I'm going to disagree with your relegation of the Rock Star role. Consequently, I disagree with most of Radfield's. There are just too many roles in this game with killing power / "anti-town" potential to tie down to people. Your plan effectively makes top-slot townies useless and enables top-slot Mafia to have their anti-town powers. I don't care if you know where these powers are--this game can easily go as Toy Factory did, and be over in two or three cycles. bumatlarge--as an "Imba/self protection" role the Rock Star is quite top-notch. Not only would whoever chose it be protected to a very high degree, but he would also know two people who didn't get roles--and that second part is, in my opinion, more of a sale than the first, especially if whomever ends up partying I will be taking either Rock Star or Chuiu Jack as my role. Were I feeling more involved in the game at the moment, I'd lean toward Rock Star, since that would allow me to have amazing backtracking ability. However, the brokenness of the Jack completely boggles my mind. I'll probably be choosing that. Inventor is awesome[ly broken] and you guys should keep up the discussion on that, but I think somebody else would be able to better use the role. No you. Sounds good to me. I didn't really read to much into it, but you convinced me. So the next imba person would probably say whether he will take inventor or a defensive role. I still like my batman's vigilance thing for him. On May 16 2011 05:23 Scamp wrote: I'm really confused about Radfield's no-pick list. He introduces it as his own creation but it's actually just a copy-paste of Bumatlarge's list with a few odd changes. Firstly, he replaces Janitor with the Day Vig and then adds Janitor back on the list toward the end. Next, he replaces both godfather roles with the recruiting mason. Caller GF is in his top 6 so that makes sense but why remove the other godfather role from the no-pick list, and what's bad about taking recruiting mason? Finally, he removed 'traitors' from the list. Why would you do this? He replaced it with the PYP3 Veteran. Why add that and not, say, hero or rock star? Why does neither no-pick list have the framer? That seems pretty anti-town to me. I copied radfield's no-pick list. I took out the dayvig and added the janitor because someone brought it up. I dont really see why the day vig is instant scum, its a very powerful town role, and it only draws attention to scum if they use it. All godfathers are very anti town, but caller GF is a good role to deny, along with thief. I would shorten radfield's list and say FW - CJ/rockstar (what he said) Scamp - inventor/defense Caller - Thief (hes probably going to pick traitor though or something) Barundar - Caller GF Radfield - Vote rigger (im assuming he would follow his own plan here) If anyone in the top5 is not going to be doing this or wants to take the FW path, tell us. (looking at you caller) I really have very little concern for journalist. If we see something massively out of the ordinary, we can analyze previous posting and see if we can draw anything conclusive. Otherwise we will still have doubts. Let mafia take journalist, it would make the game more fun and I think it would be less dangerous then other roles. I don't really feel comfortable making people pick a role, so I think they should present two options. I believe just threatening to take the role is enough, and as long as they can explain any scenario with a role they have given us, I'll be satisfied. And here is what I think the no-pick list should be. + Show Spoiler + NRA Member Hero Bomber Man Emperor Admiral Ackbar Pardoner Cupid Prince of Darkness Suicide Bomber Politician Agent of Chaos Roleblocker Role Reverser Framer Bone Breaker Puppeteer Hooker Janitor PYP 3 Veteran Bus Driver I dont think dayvig, emperor and zombie having a record of not hitting mafia is a good reason to put them on the bad list. Played correctly, they can both be helpful even if they don't hit red (making us avoid a mislynch instead). Obviously they shouldn't be going off just their gut, which I find was a major source of baddity for these roles. I think america and kingmaker should claim immediately, and if they don't we can act as if they are on the no-list. THEY SHOULD NOT CLAIM BEFORE PICKS, BECAUSE OF POLITCIAN BEING AN ABSOLUTE CUNT-ROLE. ^You know what, politician is a good scum role without america and kingmaker in the game, don't pick these roles. And I will update the list based off the top5 thing. I will move people up because, god dammit I want an imba role. (and why not use them?) Imba/self protection 6. GMarshal 7. Deconduo 8. Foolishness 9. bumatlarge + Show Spoiler + Bad Santa* CPR Doctor* Assassin Capitalist Mafia 4 Veteran Mad Hatter Mafia 4 Hatter Meth Man Bullet Proof ( * = should probably claim soon or at some point to help KP analyzing) Mafia hunting 10. Kavdragon 11. Chaoser 12. Fishball 13. KillerSOS 14. Eiii 15. Infinitestory + Show Spoiler + Mafia 2 Detective NKVD Agent Alignment Cop Modern Detective Role Cop Bullet Bill PYP Watcher PYP Tracker Parity Cop Dirty cop Vig/Misc 16. Dreamflower 17. Mr.Wiggles 18. Original Name 19. tnkted 20. Chezinu 21. Ace + Show Spoiler + Anything you think would help town, or anything that isn't on the no-no list or on the list below this. Good spot to take a standard vig/mad hatter roles of sorts. Protective/Defensive/Misc 22. Kurumi 23. Incognito 24. Node 25. kitaman27 + Show Spoiler + Priest Medic Doctor Witch Bodyguard First targets would be who you think is most helpful town, then Id say the power or DT roles. I believe I will be picking either Bad Santa or Mad Hatter. | ||
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
Ace Flamewheel Foolishness Dreamflower Incognito Also [9][1] The fact that 40% of the players picked either 4 or 9 is hillarious. Certainly should make things easier for us. | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On May 16 2011 07:13 bumatlarge wrote: Well considering you are Ace, I'd think you tell town you were mafia before anyone got close to that, just to brag. what if i ask on day 1 | ||
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On May 16 2011 07:10 Incognito wrote: Whoever gets Bad Santa should choose Ace Flamewheel Foolishness Dreamflower Incognito why | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Presumably because they are solid, experienced players. Obviously Bad Santa should make their own decisions though, as any recommendation could be from a mafia player. Also, speak up Incog. We've discussed all this role business before, so why are you not weighing in now? Bumatlarge, I don't think we should be trying to organize the town picking list the way you are. Obviously if people actually took according to the categories you laid out, mafia would just kill everyone in the 'mafia hunting' category since there are no defensive roles there. Much better to let townies decide for themselves whether to take investigative, defensive, or offensive roles. Townies outside the top 6 should take whatever they want, as long as it's not on the No-Pick list. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
I have to say, Traitor, VI, Journalist, Puppeteer look like awesome picks. Don't hate me. | ||
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 16 2011 07:36 deconduo wrote: [18][2] I have to say, Traitor, VI, Journalist, Puppeteer look like awesome picks. Don't hate me. I'll hate you for the Traitor I already claimed my pick earlier: 1,1 | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On May 16 2011 07:44 Foolishness wrote: I'll hate you for the Traitor I already claimed my pick earlier: 1,1 After what happened in PYP3, I don't think I'd risk traitor. I wonder what happens if a mole picks traitor lol. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
As I see it there are two general ways that each side can go: You can deny the other team's power roles, or you can gain your team's power roles. Statistically it's a horrible idea for the mafia to try to deny us, rather than gain power roles. (Because of the limited number of players on their team) Even though the mafia has the advantage of being able to communicate and organize, I think that the town still has a huge advantage at this stage because of sheer manpower. We have three times the number of players, and I think that using that advantage is going to be key in getting the upper hand in this drafting phase. What I mean is this: We have enough players to both block the mafia from getting their most powerful roles, AND still pick up our most powerful roles. The only thing that we need to figure out is what order we need to take those roles. As mentioned earlier, the mafia can't afford to get any roles that are powerful for the town, unless they are also powerful for the mafia. Because of this, I think that any powers that are weak for the mafia should NOT be chosen early even if they are very powerful for the town. The top picks should be roles that are powerful for both sides, followed by roles that are very powerful in mafia hands (but not so much in town hands), followed by roles that are powerful for town (but not so much for mafia). People have said that we should just not pick mafia roles, and lynch anyone found with them. I disagree strongly, as it is that sort of passive play that will allow the mafia to get exactly what they need, and rofl stomp us. Those role will very likely be taken regardless, so I'd rather do something like Radfield is suggesting, and assign them to people, so that we know where those roles are. Sorry if it covers some things that have already been talked about. Radfield: Even if Flamewheel isn't willing to take thief, it would still work if we just shifted everything down a position, right? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Sorry if it covers some things that have already been talked about. Radfield: Even if Flamewheel isn't willing to take thief, it would still work if we just shifted everything down a position, right? It would, except I'm fairly certain neither Deconduo or Caller will take any role assigned to them. Fortunately, that doesn't matter too much, as bum's suggestion works fairly well: FW - CJ/rockstar (what he said) Scamp - inventor/defense Caller - Thief (hes probably going to pick traitor though or something) Barundar - Caller GF Radfield - Vote rigger (im assuming he would follow his own plan here) now, caller probably won't take thief, and we're still missing CPR doc, which is a great role for mafia. Barundar, you may want to think about randomizing your role, and taking either Caller GF or CPR Doc. I will take vote rigger, and GM Marshall(number 6 pick) can hopefully take the thief. I think this leaves us in decent shape: 1. 2. Scamp - Inventor 3. 4. Barundar - Caller GF or CPR Doc 5 Radfield - Vote Rigger 6. GM Marshall - Thief 7-25 Any Pro-Town role they feel like, with a heavy emphasis on investigative and defensive powers. In General town should be avoiding KP roles in an effort to prolong the game. I'd really like to see 5 or 6 investigative roles make it in though. Someone please take capitalist. It is fantastic for both town and mafia, so hopefully a townie takes it high up. Players at the bottom should not be afraid to try and take really great roles. Oftentimes very strong town roles don't get picked, because players towards the end of the draft are afraid to double up with someone and end up vanilla. | ||
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
If flamewheel/Caller/whoever don't agree to take their designated role (assuming we have a consensus on what roles they should take) we need to lynch them, no questions asked. What's to stop Scamp for all of a sudden posting "hey guys, I'm going to take Hero or Assassin (or whatever role he might want) sorry"? Are you just going to shift down the important role list even further? Yawn. Waste of time. People are going to pick whatever they want to pick. I'm not opposed to general guidelines, such as town should focus on DT related roles or survival roles, whatever, but assigning roles to the top 5 players is just silly. If you are going to go that route, we should have everyone claim as soon as the picks are out. Either everyone should claim or no one should claim (that includes assigning roles before the picks). Nothing in between. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 16 2011 09:01 Foolishness wrote: These plans for the top 5-8 players to pick roles is retarded in it's current form. If flamewheel/Caller/whoever don't agree to take their designated role (assuming we have a consensus on what roles they should take) we need to lynch them, no questions asked. What's to stop Scamp for all of a sudden posting "hey guys, I'm going to take Hero or Assassin (or whatever role he might want) sorry"? Are you just going to shift down the important role list even further? Yawn. Waste of time. People are going to pick whatever they want to pick. I'm not opposed to general guidelines, such as town should focus on DT related roles or survival roles, whatever, but assigning roles to the top 5 players is just silly. If you are going to go that route, we should have everyone claim as soon as the picks are out. Either everyone should claim or no one should claim (that includes assigning roles before the picks). Nothing in between. No one should claim. Any plans laid out are for pre-selection only. Once the actual role selection takes place, no one should tell anyone anything about their role. The only exception is if the information you might reveal is very beneficial to town. Having said this, I almost guarantee a few people will state they got a role, or got vanilla, or whatever. I really hope not though. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 16 2011 09:48 Radfield wrote: No one should claim. Any plans laid out are for pre-selection only. Once the actual role selection takes place, no one should tell anyone anything about their role. The only exception is if the information you might reveal is very beneficial to town. Having said this, I almost guarantee a few people will state they got a role, or got vanilla, or whatever. I really hope not though. Okay so, we tell people which role to take now, but after the picking we pretend that discussion never happened? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
You're going to pick the editor and as soon as game starts you're going to edit all your posts out! That way mafia can't see what roles people took, but you will still know! Brilliant! | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
On May 16 2011 07:11 infinitestory wrote: Are you allowed to pay the Dirty Cop $150 to say whether he's mafia, and if so, must he answer truthfully? You can make him talk on a certain subject ( to a reasonable length) but you can't make him say a specific thing. Otherwise there'd be no point to grabbing this as mafia. | ||
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