Sleeper Cell Mafia

On April 25 2011 09:54 darmousseh wrote:
/confirm. Got my pm

On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote:


Also, I'd be looking for any unusual word choices/phrases that a player could use to help identify themselves to/complete a clue they left the sleeper agents. Unfortunately, we probably won't know what the clues will really mean, but it could lead us to the cell leader, or a red faking as the cell leader to take pressure off the leader.

On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how.

On April 25 2011 21:57 Vain wrote:


Well for instance the cell leader could hint them who is who. It is stated in the first post that the cell leader is allowed to breadcrumb. He can also send that pm at dusk and down so in theory he could give some direction to who to vote for to lynch at dawn and also who to hit at dusk.

On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote:
Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.

I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.

The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.

Thoughts?

On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote:
Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread.

On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote:
it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.

Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.

IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs.

On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:

At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.

On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +
????

I'd also like to know the point of your exercise.

On April 27 2011 02:37 Impervious wrote:
Ok, between this "secret plan", this recent slipup, and defending someone who is currently suspicious, is anyone else getting a weird vibe from Ace?

On April 27 2011 02:55 Impervious wrote:

Well, unless we get some kind of confirmation that there are indeed roles not listed in the OP that are in play, his actions are definitely suspicious. Nobody in either of the two blue roles would even dream of bringing that much attention to themselves at this point in the game.

Also, I await the revealing of your plan.

On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote:
[center]ROLES

This is a semi-closed setup. Some Roles and their abilities will be disclosed, however role counts will not be. There is at least one of every Roles below. There may be other Roles not listed.

On April 27 2011 03:28 Jackal58 wrote:
And just to be clear I am not asking tnkted to role claim. I want to know why he felt compelled to bring it up pre game just to say "Let's just forget this" Wtf do people do that for?

On April 27 2011 05:03 GMarshal wrote:
Sorry Ace, but I think your analysis is faulty, I don't see Jackal as being scum atm. It could be my relative inexperience, or it might just be that we disagree on that, but I think that at the moment jackal is a terrible lynch, at the very least he is being vocal, which is much, much more than what we can say for many of the players in this thread.

I know I've said this many times before, but I think our best call today is to lynch a lurker, with a non-unifed mafia it also means they have no way of knowing if they are lynching a buddy, which makes it much less likely to be misdirected than the usual attempts at day 1 inactive lynches.

On April 27 2011 06:56 Zorkmid wrote:


Well, convince me.....otherwise, this looks scummy as fuck.

On April 27 2011 06:54 sandroba wrote:
I would like to suggest you post your info right now, so it can be relevant to the current lynch. If you post it in a few hours, it's gonna make no difference, at least for today. There was enough time already for anyone willing to answer your questions to have done so.

On April 27 2011 09:15 GMarshal wrote:
@Jackal, Ace is a scary player on either side, mafia or town, his town play is not up to his mafia play, but thats because his scum play is miles ahead of what almost anyone can pull off. His ability to mislead and misdirect the town is something to be terrified of and if he is mafia we can expect him to be ready to start crushing the town soon, as a policy, every dt in the universe should be checking him. I'm not familiar with his town play other than "from this point forward I'll talk with my guns" and knowing Qatol was mafia in the one were Qatol was the scum mayor, that was the game where he did the whole "posters who are invisible to me" thing too. Overall Ace is a vet, no-one should underestimate his play, town or mafia.

I find it mildly amusing that I posted the names of three people as inactive and all three of them popped up sooner rather than later. Almost as if they were watching the thread...

Ace, you say that lurking is "old meta" but I have found that in my experience even experienced players tend to lurk as mafia, since its simply much more comfortable/you are less likely to slip up, especially without a team giving direction/help I think many of these players might decide to lurk, or at least be mildly inactive. You seem to think jackal is scum, is there any other player you think is likely to be mafia as well?

GMarshal

Ace - pardoner, XXXVIII, veteran, information
Mr. Wiggles - serial killer
why

sandroba
Ace
GM
Mr. Wiggles

Ace
Eiii - recall, 2 years ago
Jackal58 - suck
Gmarshal/darmousseh/GGQ - modded, prime, choices

Jackal58
tnkted - My beloved
Tackster - You're easiest (dead)
GMarshall - Clues and Puzzles

tnkted
Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd

Rean (dead)
Jackal58 - breadcrumb this, my beloved
GMarshal - "wheels on bus go round" my bus driving skills in insane 2

Vain
Ace
tnkted
GMarshal

why
"do something specific"
Ace
Wiggles
GGQ

Zorkmid
Ace - Make friends of Violence, Joy
Jackal58 - Make friends of Violence, Avarice
Vain - Make friends of Avarice, Joy

Mr. Wiggles
PI Bear, Detective, grisly
Ace - analyzer/arguer
GMarshal - all around player
Jackal58 - tunnel, aggressive, friendly fire

Impervious
Ace
Mr.Wiggles
GMarshal

Eiii
Ace
Jackal - insane 2
Tackster (dead)

On April 27 2011 22:49 GMarshal wrote:
Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch.

On April 28 2011 04:23 Eiii wrote:


I still have no clue what the point of this was. You know the gf doesn't get to pick his scumbuddies, right? Is this some kind of metagaming thing where you're trying to figure out who would be most likely to be picked, or are you gf and do you know something about how the scum side works that we don't?

Ooooor was the point to just assign a unique keyword to a set of players to make communication easier?

On April 28 2011 07:28 Eiii wrote:


That's a given, everyone should have known from the start that when a player mysteriously does a 180 (or less even!) overnight it's something to be looked at.

You didn't answer why DT checks should be directed at those who were basically voted to be a scum dream team. I still don't understand why this tally has any influence whatsoever as to who looks scummy or not.

On April 29 2011 01:53 bumatlarge wrote:
Why is right here. I still have no idea the usefulness to town with the lists. Though, when do messages get sent? Rean was modkilled at the first lynch, which I thought hapens before any messages. Either Ace or Jackal is standing out for me, hopefully I can churn out something nasty on them.

On April 29 2011 01:34 why wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +



I put some light pressure on you. Ace tells me my reason for pressure was completely stupid here:
+ Show Spoiler +
then like 12 hours later accuses you for completely different reasons. You come to the conclusion that either Ace sucks at town play or Ace and I are in a scum bandwagon together. Sounds paranoid to me. I'd still rather put pressure on Ace though.

Speaking of which: ##Vote: Ace

On April 29 2011 00:23 tnkted wrote:
I agree with the pressure on Ace. Why?





Virtually all of our only dead player's posts were anti-breadcrumbing posts, and all refered to ace. They were pretty vehemenant too. I think CL sent rean a message saying that "if you're scum, argue against breadcrumbs" or something similar. Perhaps rean was confirming himself to Ace?

On April 29 2011 03:07 bumatlarge wrote:
Please quote an explanation of the list thing because my read-through provided me with nothing. With a valid reason to it, I have no reason to vote you.

On April 29 2011 11:35 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh wait hahaha, Ace I already caught you man.

Ace sees bum claim blue, already suspicious of both bum and jackal, he makes the logical assumption that it would be best to lynch jackal first, since lylo is not here, nor will it be until a day after both jackal and bum are dead. If jackal is CL, yay go town. If bum is lying, lynch him the day after.

Ace sees bum claim blue, knows jackal is CL, oh fuck bum needs to die before jackal so we can leave town while buying mafia a free hit from lynching bum and giving our CL another day.

Now it would be one thing if you considered both options as green, and leaned towards lynching me, as jackal as CL would give you a bad image, but it would be a decent trade.




You instantly -let me repeat that- INSTANTLY assume I am lying. There is no consideration there. I know you as town would entertain the notion that I am blue for a bit, even if you made sure that your opinion of me lying was made known in your first post. But you know jackal is CL, so that is not your thought process. Have some other scum post now, I'm on a roll.

On April 29 2011 01:53 bumatlarge wrote:
Why is right here. I still have no idea the usefulness to town with the lists. Though, when do messages get sent? Rean was modkilled at the first lynch, which I thought hapens before any messages. Either Ace or Jackal is standing out for me, hopefully I can churn out something nasty on them.

On April 29 2011 03:07 bumatlarge wrote:
Please quote an explanation of the list thing because my read-through provided me with nothing. With a valid reason to it, I have no reason to vote you.

On April 29 2011 16:38 bumatlarge wrote:
thanks wiggles really putting yourself out there to shove some words out of my mouth.

Jackal
Ace
Wiggles

That's what Im feelin'

Wiggles, he blatantly commentated twice on how he spends time in his card rides thinking about mafia. He came back insufficient. HE SPENT THE WHOLE GAME OBSESSED WITH CL. That is not mere coincidence. He is the cell leader.

Saying Car instead of "steelers profile" leaves enough space for jackal to add 17 other characters in. If jackal only revealed that he was scum, he would then HAVE to publicly coordinate the rest of the scum with happy birthdays until his next message. Clue them all in (I would have done it I think) and then it doesn't matter if you live or die, once scum know who each other are, cell leaders only have to send messages hinting at targets and such.

The entire first day I read 20 pages of posts talking about how to catch breadcrumbs, and now mine are useless, when they are completely feasible.

Then my behavior analysis, which any nin-kum-poop can see jackal's behavior, is pretty much undeniable that jackal talk non-stop about breadcrumbs and cell leaders. Just flat out say that what jackal did does not make him Cell leader so town can mark that down on you.

And yeah, I think he was attempting to communicate with Ace somehow, or Ace was trying to communicate with him.

And i meant "if scum doesnt hit me" blahblahblah free confirmed something. And isn't 25% x 25% around 7%? I may be talking out of my ass with that.

And I become an obvious target. I want jackal lynched now so scum don't get a breather knowing the current CL (yes i made that up now when ggq pointed out it goes to another sleeper) and I kinda want to die. Sorry if that screws over your behavior analysis on me, but I have a busy internet-less weekend. I had ways of remaining active if I had a different role, but I got IA so this makes sense to me. Have no idea why you're making a huge deal over me claiming, unless your scum then your just grasping. That makes a lot more sense.

And please connect me to batman. That makes this beautiful. Because if I get lynched and pop blue, varp is a nice solid lead to townie town.

AND CHERRY PICKING BREADCRUMBS?! LOL WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? OH ILL SKIP THAT OBVIOUS CRANNY DONT WANT TO CHERRY PICK.

No where do I say my analysis is weak. Blatant word twisting. I said my information+crumbs are stronger and I'll say it again. My analysis is obvious. I'm sorry if it's obvious but jackal made it that way. I can rip to shreds all of his posts relating to his role, but I really dont have time, and Im spending too much time churning out responses to scum.

cherrypicked breadcrumbs food oh its all making sense now!

I didnt think you were scum when i analyzed jackal. I entertained the humorous notion about the birthday. You exploding all over it, and gunning against this analysis that has nothing to do with you like it's your last defense DEFINITELY make you scum in my eyes. I don't think I remember you ever attacking something like this. I like it wiggles, but next time do it as town to throw us for a little loop.

Jackal sent a "car message" wiggles and ace know it, so they know jackal is CL and they need to attack me because they think they can drag town into lylo. If anyone else has questions, I'll try to answer tomorrow.

Cell Leader

You may send a message consisting of 5 words or 20 characters to any agent at dawn and dusk of each day. Submit it like a normal action. The message can't contain the name of any player. The message is PM'd to both myself and chaoser. We will send it to the player you specify.

On April 29 2011 23:37 tnkted wrote:


Yeah, I was. I'm going to hold off until this bum/ace situation is solved. You'll see why.

I've been busy with schoolwork lately, sorry yall. I've already pulled out of a couple other games, hopefully I'll have time to keep playing this one!

My thoughts: As far as I can read my gut is actually telling me to trust bum, which is a suprise because I usually make it a point to distrust bum as long as possible because I find his style of writing so persuasive. In this case, however, I think that he's wrong about jackal, but right about Ace. Jackal, while his style of play this game is totally different from his previous games (its an improvement Jackal! you're getting targeted partly because your meta is off!) probably isn't stupid enough to post traffic breadcrumbs in the middle of the thread. That's wifom of course, but I feel good about it. I've gotten a feeling of earnest effort from him all game that I'm willing to indulge in.

Regarding Ace: Ace has absolutely refused to hop on a few things that other people have found scummy. There was my belated roleclaim, the fact that I blatantly told mafia to kill ace (which was an honest mistake, I had no intention of doing that.) Whats interesting is that he didn't die. GM died instead. I'm going to speculate for a minute on how this could have gone down:

Lets say we have 5 mafia and one CL, roughly 1/3 of the total players. 1 scum is dead, which makes it 5 scum overall, 4 of them agents. What way would they vote? Since they can't communicate in the thread, and only one of them knows who the CL is (assuming that one person is told every day/flip), if we assume that that player wasn't Rean (for the sake of arguement, I still think it was), wouldn't they have a somewhat even split around who to kill?

Perhaps the split went like this:
2 - GM
2 - Ace
Since its a tie, the CL gets to choose. Both were extremely high profile targets. Why wouldn't Ace get killed? Theres the possibility that whoever CL is could read GM well, which is a possibility. I think that Ace cast the final vote that killed GM.

This isn't conclusive, of course, its all speculation, but I think it makes sense, and since I don't want to vote for bum at this point, I'm voting Ace.

#vote ace

On April 30 2011 02:27 Jackal58 wrote:

I am not in favor of lynching our DT. No matter how obsolete he just managed to make himself.

What othe thing did you think I thought the breadcrumbs were for Ace? I read the OP very clearly and I still believe I am on the right track.

That you immediately assumed I was lying was what made me really think you were scum, instead of looking at both sides in the thread, like every other townie did, like varp, GGQ and impervious. Now you went back on that, so yeah I think you slipped there. But you shouldn't be lynched until after jackal.

On April 30 2011 11:32 GGQ wrote:
Read over Zorkmid's posts on day1, they seem consistent with a dt to me.

On April 30 2011 12:46 bumatlarge wrote:
Ugh you guys get a nice majority on me and now you're getting squeamish? Throw your testicles back on your groins please.

On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own?

On May 02 2011 02:04 Jackal58 wrote:

I don't think I'm buying this either. If a vig shot last night why would they shoot GGQ or you? I'm the one with a great big fucking target on my back.

On May 01 2011 21:25 Jackal58 wrote:

So you're claiming to be some sort of double agent with a gun???
Wtf kind of claim is that?
And if it's true why the fuck would you claim that?
That makes less sense than bum claiming DT so early.(wtf bum )
You seriously want us to believe you are vigi/sooper spy?
Day 1 you call me scummiest player in the game.
Day 2 you tear bum a new one and lead the charge on his lynch after he
calls me scum. Yet according to you I'm the scummiest player in the game.
Day 3 you claim vig/sooper spy.
Day 3 I call bullshit.

If you are on the "inside" as you say you're actions make no sense what so ever.
You push the DT lynch over who you believe to be the scummiest player.
If you are on the inside this just doesn't add up. You would have known bum and I were both town and pushed for a 3rd party for the lynch. Not one of us.
I'm not buying it.
If you have some sort of role that allows you to get info on the scum team and shoot them why would you claim it????

On May 02 2011 02:36 Impervious wrote:
Lol, so that's why you're suspicious of me?

I don't see the reasoning for a red claiming as DT. It seems like such a dumb move. It instantly paints a giant target on them when he's still alive the next day. And if the mafia don't eliminate him tonight, then they risk him actually finding a mafia (assuming that Jackal is green).

And, of course, if he's green, it could be an interesting play, if you really had a strong read on someone.

I don't think it's a good idea to lynch him. Voting for someone other than Jackal, based on some kind of analysis, would be fine if you don't believe bum, but lynching him is really fucking dumb right now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On May 03 2011 03:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
This is a weird lynch. I'm not sure what to make of tnkted's claim of being a bullet-proof miller, as that seems really weird, and almost overpowered, as if he claims, he will never die if town believes him. I'm going to hold off on him though, because he isn't really important at the moment.

So if ace and san, and then varp are town, then the scum team is something like Jackal/BB/Eii.

I'm going to expect that all of the scum will know who each other are at this point. So that means that there's 4 scum maximum, maybe 2 minimum and 9 players. If there's 4, we're at MYLO already, so we need to be sure that we do this right. There's been associations drawn between people already, it seems. There's a strong relationship between Ace and San, as his claim relies on someone else being hit. There's also a relationship that I think exists with Varp, because of his quick agreement with Ace's claim, as well as the scum list he posted, which targets the other possibility of the scum team.

So what I need to decide, is if the scum team is formed of active posters and coherent, or made up of lurkers and disorganized.

Everyone's gone quiet, and Ace isn't really pushing hard for Jackal's lynch like he was for Bum's, which puts me on edge as well. People need to get talking more, because right now it seems like I'm the only one trying to figure things out while the lynch deadline is fast approaching.

On May 03 2011 04:44 tnkted wrote:
Ok, I just went back through all of GGQ's posts and didn't find a single thing thats conclusive. I don't think scum used breadcrumbs this game., if what ace is saying about his interceptions is true. I think CL just sent things related to the people's profiles and meta. Is there a list somewhere where it shows who all is alive? because if there are 3 scum left and we have 7 players (by my count) this is lylo.

IMO Jackal is a bad lynch. If what ace posted was true, CL didn't use breadcrumbs at all! Instead they used clues related to the person's identity. Specifically,
"watch the canadian" and "likes mens magazines," the latter obviously pointing at GGQ. The question is, watch the canadian: whats up with that? Who is a well known canadian player playing in this game? Impervious is possible, but I'm more afraid of...

#vote Mr. Wiggles

On May 03 2011 06:25 VarpuliS wrote:
Reposting for emphasis: Ace, could you please post your pm so that we can compare it to tnkted's and sandroba's?

Your role is the following:

UNDERCOVER AGENT

Your entire training in the FBI has come to this moment and it's time to put your skills into action. Since you are an expert at wiretapping every day you will intercept parts of a message the Cell Leader has sent to his Agent. Use these messages to try and stay one step ahead of the Sleeper Cells. Like all FBI Agents you carry a sidearm but you only have 1 bullet. If you shoot an Agent life will go on. However, if you shoot an innocent person then you will automatically alert an Agent in the area and be killed immediately. Good luck.

On May 03 2011 05:56 sandroba wrote:
I don't agree with you about lynching for information, but I took a closer look at tnkted role claim.



Besides this role making no sense at all to me there are a couple things that stood out. First the colored tittle. I don't know about you guys, but my role pm has no color. He's putting emphasis on the fact that he is town. Second "Everything was going you way". Seriously, a gramatical error in a role pm? Third, and this is kind of minor, but I find it weird that his name is tnkted and there is "Then the economy tanked". It's like he's making fun of us.

On May 03 2011 13:06 VarpuliS wrote:
f5f5f5f5f5

On May 06 2011 13:05 GGQ wrote:
I still can't believe you fuckers shot me.

On May 06 2011 13:16 GMarshal wrote:
I almost shot Ace night 1, my gut told me he was scum, and then he shot me.

FML

should have shot, didn't expect to die.

Also ace, the point of those lists was to get a read on who players were thought good to better distribute your kills right?

On May 06 2011 13:18 GMarshal wrote:


The whole "if you were a cell leader who would you message and what would you say?"

On May 06 2011 13:33 Jackal58 wrote:

You prick. I played this whole thing in the dark. I voted you the second time cause I was damn near positive you were the cell leader. It was a very gentle "fuck you".

I mean really. What was the point of keeping me in the dark? First time I ever play scum and I ended up trying to play it like an SK. I was clueless.

On May 06 2011 13:44 bumatlarge wrote:
I think I saved my additional sandroba analysis, I'll try to find it. I'm really angry at zorkmid, but I'm glad he didn't do more harm then he could have. He's going to have to come up with a helluva good reason if he ever wants to play here again, at least in the same game as me.

On May 07 2011 06:45 Jackal58 wrote:

I had the advantage of knowing I voted to kill GGQ (sorry dude) and when he came up dead I knew it wasn't a coincidence. That's when I began to realize I was being left in the dark on purpose.

On May 07 2011 03:21 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Yeah. For the record, I never thought San/Ace were town 100%. I should've just tried to lynch one, but I thought I could wait because BB was the third. I was actually thinking they were pretty scummy on the last day, where San kept coming in with Ace to push things, but I thought it was a bus, so I didn't say anything. Oh well, I haven't played green in like months, haha, so I'm pretty bad at it. I'll take responsibility for town getting raped. :p

Thanks to the hosts for hosting, I had a lot of fun. Hopefully if we try again, there'll be less modkills, but it was still amusing. Thanks!

On May 08 2011 04:57 Impervious wrote:
I wouldn't have pushed for your lynch, I would have pushed for sandroba's lynch instead. I could easily argue that the worst case scenario of him telling the truth would be a lynch of a townie rather than a vet, and we would confirm the undercover agent role at the same time.