EPTSleeper Cell Mafia - Page 3
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 27 2011 22:49 GMarshal wrote: Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch. I don't know how many games of me you've read but I don't always stick to my vote, especially not Day 1. Also with no majority lynch someone can end up dying with a couple of votes. Like Kenpachi who only died with 3 votes. How come no one went back to look at it? Zorkmid actually ended up deciding Kenpachi's fate. Mr.Wiggles would have gotten lynched but the vote switch ended up taking out Kenpachi instead. He's also a good target to DT check and may actually be the best one. @Impervious: Acting weird how? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Or maybe that was one of the worst towns I was a part of. So many games like that though so it's hard to pick one. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 28 2011 04:23 Eiii wrote: I still have no clue what the point of this was. You know the gf doesn't get to pick his scumbuddies, right? Is this some kind of metagaming thing where you're trying to figure out who would be most likely to be picked, or are you gf and do you know something about how the scum side works that we don't? Ooooor was the point to just assign a unique keyword to a set of players to make communication easier? Yes we know that. The point is that if you see players in the thread change their behaviors toward one another or start typing those unique keywords then there's a chance for secret communication. Did you read my entire post? @bum: Explain. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 28 2011 07:28 Eiii wrote: That's a given, everyone should have known from the start that when a player mysteriously does a 180 (or less even!) overnight it's something to be looked at. You didn't answer why DT checks should be directed at those who were basically voted to be a scum dream team. I still don't understand why this tally has any influence whatsoever as to who looks scummy or not. Those players should be DT checked because most of the players picked them for a Scum dream team like you said  . If these are the most active players and everyone acknowledges them for good Scum play then surely they should be scrutinized. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 28 2011 23:34 why wrote: Sorry for not posting more, I've unexpectedly had to work multiple 14 hour days and haven't had time to do anything but sleep and work. I've asked for a replacement, but until that comes through I'm going to do my best to help out. I think Ace should be the number one lynch candidate today. Here are my reasons: Ace's plan resulted in very little information for town. It supposedly generated a DT check list by seeing who would be the most likely to be messaged if they were a sleeper. However, this obviously has very little relation to who is actually a sleeper. I think it was a lot of hoopla for not a lot of payoff, which makes me think that Ace had an alternative plan. My guess is that he is either a sleeper agent that is trying to help the CL by providing an excuse to post lists of players (which is a strategy multiple people have said they would employ were they a CL) or he is the CL himself who wants to use his list to inform people. Ace is a good player and is not above publicly pushing a plan that benefits mafia. Also, Ace's play day 1 reminded me a lot of his play in Orgah Mafia, just sitting back and shooting down plans while not sticking his neck out too much. In that game I believe he was a survivor. When you think about it, being a survivor is almost identical to being a sleeper agent early in this game; you have no allies and your goal is primarily to survive (this obviously changes once you get a PM from the CL). To be honest, I haven't read any of Ace's games except for that one, so he may just always play this way, but it still makes me suspicious. I'm also a little suspicious of Jackal58 still (especially given his paranoid reaction to my and Ace's pressure), but I think that may just be standard Jackal. Zorkmid I'm not that suspicious of, even though he caused Kenpachi (who turned out town) to die over Mr. Wiggles. To say that he did this with an agenda is to say that either Zorkmid is CL or Zorkmid was the person that the CL PM'ed first. I doubt that Zorkmid was PM'ed first, as he appeared on very few of Ace's lists. If he was CL, then it seems way too brazen an attempt at influencing the vote to do without posting in the thread. Plus it was about an hour until the vote ended, so it wasn't like it was a ninja attempt. First of all in Orgah Mafia I barely posted because I really had no idea what the hell was going on half the time. Secondly I shoot down ridiculous suggestions a lot. Maybe you should read more of my games to know this. My role PM from Orgah wasn't actually a survivor role: it was a Neutral role that could kidnap players. Even if that was true your analysis is still wrong. You said I sat back and shot down plans in Orgah Mafia - I've been one of the most active players so far this game and I've proposed a plan. So you're evidence here is already faulty. As for the bolded if you read my explanation twice already I've addressed this. I'm not going to quote those posts again because I honestly believe you aren't reading the game. The day started with GM's death and instead of even trying to figure something out based on that you jump immediately to me - interesting. Let's continue with the Zorkmid issue. In fact lets keep it short. This same post has you defending Zorkmid's vote (who is replaced by bumatlarge) while accusing me with made up proof. And you and bumatlarge both voted for me in no time. Your reasoning is a problem with my plan and some made up issues from another game. Bum's reasoning? On April 29 2011 01:53 bumatlarge wrote: Why is right here. I still have no idea the usefulness to town with the lists. Though, when do messages get sent? Rean was modkilled at the first lynch, which I thought hapens before any messages. Either Ace or Jackal is standing out for me, hopefully I can churn out something nasty on them. So because you don't understand it, I'm scum? :/ And what in the world does Rean being modkilled have to do with me? On April 29 2011 01:34 why wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2011 08:47 Jackal58 wrote: Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes. So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons. The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy. The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks". So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1. I put some light pressure on you. Ace tells me my reason for pressure was completely stupid here: + Show Spoiler + On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote: That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. then like 12 hours later accuses you for completely different reasons. You come to the conclusion that either Ace sucks at town play or Ace and I are in a scum bandwagon together. Sounds paranoid to me. I'd still rather put pressure on Ace though. Speaking of which: ##Vote: Ace Another false post here. You didn't put any pressure on anyone. You posted some nonsense on why he was anti-town and I said that it wasn't. You accused him of being anti-town for placing a FoS on another player. I said it isn't. Now you're just being silly. On April 29 2011 00:23 tnkted wrote: I agree with the pressure on Ace. Why? Virtually all of our only dead player's posts were anti-breadcrumbing posts, and all refered to ace. They were pretty vehemenant too. I think CL sent rean a message saying that "if you're scum, argue against breadcrumbs" or something similar. Perhaps rean was confirming himself to Ace? Explain. Those 2 posts by Rean refer to me because I was the one calling him out. Other than that I don't see how the bolded statement is true. As of now I'm voting for bumatlarge because of the Zorkmid vote yesterday and his fast hop on to my wagon with bad reasoning. why is using shoddy evidence but bum should be smarter than that. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 29 2011 03:07 bumatlarge wrote: Please quote an explanation of the list thing because my read-through provided me with nothing. With a valid reason to it, I have no reason to vote you. um...you voted for me. lol. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I still think bumatlarge is our lynch for today. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
When the day started and why claimed I was scum you sided with him and voted for me as a lynch candidate. Not once did you mention anything about Jackal. When I refuted his post against me all of a sudden you come out with a claim that Jackal is scum - even though your investigation turns up insufficient. Like I said before this would be well and good because you have to take a chance but the fact that you voted for me when the day started kind of kills this proof. If you knew Jackal was scum why would you vote for me? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:35 bumatlarge wrote: Oh wait hahaha, Ace I already caught you man. Ace sees bum claim blue, already suspicious of both bum and jackal, he makes the logical assumption that it would be best to lynch jackal first, since lylo is not here, nor will it be until a day after both jackal and bum are dead. If jackal is CL, yay go town. If bum is lying, lynch him the day after. Ace sees bum claim blue, knows jackal is CL, oh fuck bum needs to die before jackal so we can leave town while buying mafia a free hit from lynching bum and giving our CL another day. Now it would be one thing if you considered both options as green, and leaned towards lynching me, as jackal as CL would give you a bad image, but it would be a decent trade. You instantly -let me repeat that- INSTANTLY assume I am lying. There is no consideration there. I know you as town would entertain the notion that I am blue for a bit, even if you made sure that your opinion of me lying was made known in your first post. But you know jackal is CL, so that is not your thought process. Have some other scum post now, I'm on a roll. stop it. I already know you're lying. Like I said look at how the day started: On April 29 2011 01:53 bumatlarge wrote: Why is right here. I still have no idea the usefulness to town with the lists. Though, when do messages get sent? Rean was modkilled at the first lynch, which I thought hapens before any messages. Either Ace or Jackal is standing out for me, hopefully I can churn out something nasty on them. This was within 3 hours of the day starting. Even with why's silly logic on how I could be scum that I posted you immediately agreed to it. From the voting thread: On April 29 2011 01:54 bumatlarge wrote: ##Vote: Ace On April 29 2011 03:07 bumatlarge wrote: Please quote an explanation of the list thing because my read-through provided me with nothing. With a valid reason to it, I have no reason to vote you. You said you have no reason to vote for me although you already did. It is now 7 hours into the day. At this point 'why' hasn't followed up on his accusation (subbed out) and neither has his replacement. The wagon's momentum to get me lynched stopped here. At this point you allegedly know your information from last night but still have not revealed it. 7 hours later you drop a dung bomb. In your post you make up some stuff about me bread crumbing to Jackal because I posted after him - come on. You even mention that you did not get a result but that Jackal must be the Cell Leader and I'm breadcrumbing to him and your made up situation that we have a relationship. What relationship? You're grasping. You made up a situation that doesn't exist and we should lynch you for it. GGq, Impervious don't you think it's a little weird that bumatlarge accused TWO people today, switched his vote, and is allegedly an Intelligence Agent that didn't get a guilty result but is sure both are scum? Think logically about all of this. This guy is lying for sure. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Realize he's not trading himself. Remember his analysis wasn't that Jackal is scum - it's that he got no information from the check. This way if Jackal flips town he can always say well it was a mistake. bum isn't trading himself 1 for 1 here - he's setting up a position that has an out in case Jackal flips town or he gets lynched. He's made up a bunch of hypothetical links here. If he didn't start the day off attacking me I'd believe him. If you believe his claim is legit then answer this for me: Why would he accuse me, then Jackal? If he is really the detective wouldn't he just out Jackal instead of waiting half the day to start? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
That should read be more inclined to believe him. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 29 2011 16:38 bumatlarge wrote: thanks wiggles really putting yourself out there to shove some words out of my mouth. Jackal Ace Wiggles That's what Im feelin' Wiggles, he blatantly commentated twice on how he spends time in his card rides thinking about mafia. He came back insufficient. HE SPENT THE WHOLE GAME OBSESSED WITH CL. That is not mere coincidence. He is the cell leader. Saying Car instead of "steelers profile" leaves enough space for jackal to add 17 other characters in. If jackal only revealed that he was scum, he would then HAVE to publicly coordinate the rest of the scum with happy birthdays until his next message. Clue them all in (I would have done it I think) and then it doesn't matter if you live or die, once scum know who each other are, cell leaders only have to send messages hinting at targets and such. The entire first day I read 20 pages of posts talking about how to catch breadcrumbs, and now mine are useless, when they are completely feasible. Then my behavior analysis, which any nin-kum-poop can see jackal's behavior, is pretty much undeniable that jackal talk non-stop about breadcrumbs and cell leaders. Just flat out say that what jackal did does not make him Cell leader so town can mark that down on you. And yeah, I think he was attempting to communicate with Ace somehow, or Ace was trying to communicate with him. And i meant "if scum doesnt hit me" blahblahblah free confirmed something. And isn't 25% x 25% around 7%? I may be talking out of my ass with that. And I become an obvious target. I want jackal lynched now so scum don't get a breather knowing the current CL (yes i made that up now when ggq pointed out it goes to another sleeper) and I kinda want to die. Sorry if that screws over your behavior analysis on me, but I have a busy internet-less weekend. I had ways of remaining active if I had a different role, but I got IA so this makes sense to me. Have no idea why you're making a huge deal over me claiming, unless your scum then your just grasping. That makes a lot more sense. And please connect me to batman. That makes this beautiful. Because if I get lynched and pop blue, varp is a nice solid lead to townie town. AND CHERRY PICKING BREADCRUMBS?! LOL WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? OH ILL SKIP THAT OBVIOUS CRANNY DONT WANT TO CHERRY PICK. No where do I say my analysis is weak. Blatant word twisting. I said my information+crumbs are stronger and I'll say it again. My analysis is obvious. I'm sorry if it's obvious but jackal made it that way. I can rip to shreds all of his posts relating to his role, but I really dont have time, and Im spending too much time churning out responses to scum. cherrypicked breadcrumbs food oh its all making sense now! I didnt think you were scum when i analyzed jackal. I entertained the humorous notion about the birthday. You exploding all over it, and gunning against this analysis that has nothing to do with you like it's your last defense DEFINITELY make you scum in my eyes. I don't think I remember you ever attacking something like this. I like it wiggles, but next time do it as town to throw us for a little loop. Jackal sent a "car message" wiggles and ace know it, so they know jackal is CL and they need to attack me because they think they can drag town into lylo. If anyone else has questions, I'll try to answer tomorrow. Cell Leader You may send a message consisting of 5 words or 20 characters to any agent at dawn and dusk of each day. Submit it like a normal action. The message can't contain the name of any player. The message is PM'd to both myself and chaoser. We will send it to the player you specify. So your bread crumbing argument is off. This is why we keep saying you're making no sense. You didn't even read the OP. Ah well, at least we know you're regular Scum and not the Cell Leader. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 29 2011 23:37 tnkted wrote: Yeah, I was. I'm going to hold off until this bum/ace situation is solved. You'll see why. I've been busy with schoolwork lately, sorry yall. I've already pulled out of a couple other games, hopefully I'll have time to keep playing this one! My thoughts: As far as I can read my gut is actually telling me to trust bum, which is a suprise because I usually make it a point to distrust bum as long as possible because I find his style of writing so persuasive. In this case, however, I think that he's wrong about jackal, but right about Ace. Jackal, while his style of play this game is totally different from his previous games (its an improvement Jackal! you're getting targeted partly because your meta is off!) probably isn't stupid enough to post traffic breadcrumbs in the middle of the thread. That's wifom of course, but I feel good about it. I've gotten a feeling of earnest effort from him all game that I'm willing to indulge in. Regarding Ace: Ace has absolutely refused to hop on a few things that other people have found scummy. There was my belated roleclaim, the fact that I blatantly told mafia to kill ace (which was an honest mistake, I had no intention of doing that.) Whats interesting is that he didn't die. GM died instead. I'm going to speculate for a minute on how this could have gone down: Lets say we have 5 mafia and one CL, roughly 1/3 of the total players. 1 scum is dead, which makes it 5 scum overall, 4 of them agents. What way would they vote? Since they can't communicate in the thread, and only one of them knows who the CL is (assuming that one person is told every day/flip), if we assume that that player wasn't Rean (for the sake of arguement, I still think it was), wouldn't they have a somewhat even split around who to kill? Perhaps the split went like this: 2 - GM 2 - Ace Since its a tie, the CL gets to choose. Both were extremely high profile targets. Why wouldn't Ace get killed? Theres the possibility that whoever CL is could read GM well, which is a possibility. I think that Ace cast the final vote that killed GM. This isn't conclusive, of course, its all speculation, but I think it makes sense, and since I don't want to vote for bum at this point, I'm voting Ace. #vote ace what the hell is this? What role claim? Where? Also where do you guys go off with all these hypothetical situations and made up scenarios to try and paint people scum. So bum claims DT, says Jackal is Scum with insufficient evidence and you're voting for ME? that doesn't even make sense. You're trying to off me with no evidence here. Town look very carefully at the voting thread and read this post. Out of no where tnkted pops up and votes for me with terrible reasoning and completely ignores the bum/jackal situation. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:27 Jackal58 wrote: I am not in favor of lynching our DT. No matter how obsolete he just managed to make himself. why do you believe he's a DT so easily? There is no way you can 100% believe him so fast. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I still think he misread the OP if he's really a Detective. The bread crumb stuff just makes no sense. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 30 2011 04:39 chaoser wrote: yoyoyo day ends in 8 and a half hours, get your votes in can you update the thread so we see the count before the lynch? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I don't think bum is a dead man walking because if he's a Scum lying about being DT we are back to the same scenario tomorrow. His reasoning just doesn't add up period. What othe thing did you think I thought the breadcrumbs were for Ace? I read the OP very clearly and I still believe I am on the right track. Just what I said. I have no idea how your entire link between Me and Jackal = we both said happy birthday to Mr. Wiggles. Thats just ridiculous. We can all pick out arbitrary posts and say HEY LOOK A BREADCRUMB! | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
1.) you investigated Jackal 2.) got an inconclusive result In no way can you say Jackal is Scum for sure now. You got an IC result, figured Jackal must be the CL then went from there. That isn't actual Scum hunting is it? You're trying to fit Jackal into what you think happens to be Scummy instead of finding Jackal to be scum. Big difference here. GGQ that part you bolded actually isn't a strong part of his analysis at all. Other players have talked about the CL, tnkted pulled some move earlier that was a "bread crumb", even GM made a list of DT checks and talked about the Intelligence Agent taking a shot Night 1: So in what way does bum decide that jackal stands out more than any of them? You and everyone else need to change your votes. Especially with this little gem right here: That you immediately assumed I was lying was what made me really think you were scum, instead of looking at both sides in the thread, like every other townie did, like varp, GGQ and impervious. Now you went back on that, so yeah I think you slipped there. But you shouldn't be lynched until after jackal. It's Day 2. How do you know they are all town? Only way you would know that if is you know who is all Scum. Hello Mr. Cell Leader. | ||
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