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On March 29 2011 06:50 tnkted wrote:I'm ok with sacrificing myself in exchange for somebody in the item game living... We just have to make sure that I'm not roleblocked. I asked LSB and apparently my bus happens before hits. So if i switch somebody, I'm killed after switching them. That means that i can switch coag with some random townie and the only chance coag has of dying is if that random townie is hit too. However, that means i'd die which would make me sad.  Well, hopefully we'll win the item game and I can use the vest. I'll see what happens when we lynch before i decide what to do. I do think that if we can win the item game tonight we can win the game very quickly.
Ideally you bus the IG player you think is town with someone you think is scum  . Medic + vigilante ftw.
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The argument that Tackster can't be mafia because he didn't know coagulation had the gun is fundamentally flawed. There's one thing that everyone, including coagulation, seems to be forgetting.
Coagulation claimed that he had a stun gun that would disable his target's power. That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potato so that it wouldn't blow up and kill the other scum who was assigned to shoot annul. Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting him. That fact that Coagulation ended up shooting annul was completely accidental by the mafia.
Thus the 4 kp are as follows:
Red hit annul
Red hit Kav or Gmarshal
Black hit Kav or Gmarshal
Coag hit Tackster, but was redirected by scum to hit annul because scum thought that his stun gun would stop annul's potato from killing the scum who killed annul.
GG lynch Tackster
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tnkted and Coagulation, please stop and read my post before continuing
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On March 29 2011 11:09 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 10:58 GGQ wrote:
The argument that Tackster can't be mafia because he didn't know coagulation had the gun is fundamentally flawed. There's one thing that everyone, including coagulation, seems to be forgetting.
Coagulation claimed that he had a stun gun that would disable his target's power. That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potato so that it wouldn't blow up and kill the other scum who was assigned to shoot annul. Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting him. That fact that Coagulation ended up shooting annul was completely accidental by the mafia.
Thus the 4 kp are as follows:
Red hit annul
Red hit Kav or Gmarshal
Black hit Kav or Gmarshal
Coag hit Tackster, but was redirected by scum to hit annul because scum thought that his stun gun would stop annul's potato from killing the scum who killed annul.
GG lynch Tackster So are we confirming Coagulation as well under this assumption?
This assumes that Tackster is red, which would mean Coagulation is confirmed because all of the remaining IG players are town.
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On March 29 2011 11:29 tnkted wrote:
Ok, well if Tack dies then I could bus some other people around... Hmm... :D
I'd like to recommend again that you pick someone that you think is going to get shot by mafia, and pick a mafia. Then mafia shoots their own teammate. We all lol.
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On March 29 2011 11:39 Lemonwalrus wrote:
My last post was 21 pages ago, in much, much simpler times.
I've read the thread from then so far but not as thoroughly as I would have liked to so I'm gonna go back and try to piece things together. In the mean time, if anyone (specifically bumatlarge) has any questions for me to answer go ahead and post them and I'll try to help you out.
I have a question for you. Can you confirm that your item is a vest that protects you from night kills?
If so, someone in the thread earlier (jackal?) said that your vest would automatically protect you even if you were protecting it rather than using it. This seems wrong to me, so I'd like to hear it from you. Do you have to use the vest for it to protect you or does it do so automatically? And, finally, did your best block a bullet last night?
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On March 29 2011 11:58 orgolove wrote:
LSB, does the "no abstain" rule only apply for the mayoral election, or does it apply forall votes?
Can I please see where coagulation specifically mentioned the stun gun issue? I don't remember reading Tackster talking about a stun gun at all.
I went to go find it, saw that coag had about 8000 posts in this thread, and said fuck it.
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On March 30 2011 00:57 Tackster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 10:58 GGQ wrote:
The argument that Tackster can't be mafia because he didn't know coagulation had the gun is fundamentally flawed. There's one thing that everyone, including coagulation, seems to be forgetting.
Coagulation claimed that he had a stun gun that would disable his target's power. That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potato so that it wouldn't blow up and kill the other scum who was assigned to shoot annul. Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting him. That fact that Coagulation ended up shooting annul was completely accidental by the mafia.
Thus the 4 kp are as follows:
Red hit annul
Red hit Kav or Gmarshal
Black hit Kav or Gmarshal
Coag hit Tackster, but was redirected by scum to hit annul because scum thought that his stun gun would stop annul's potato from killing the scum who killed annul.
GG lynch Tackster That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potato[b]This is not how the stun gun was claimed to work Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting himThis has already been proved not to make me scummy. Tonnes of town would have stolen from jackal too.Seeing as there was no way scum thought that controlling coag to 'use' his item on annul could have worked this disproves the theory entirely! [/i]
I've already explained why it would be bad town play for you to steal from jackal.
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On March 30 2011 01:10 Tackster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 01:08 GGQ wrote:On March 30 2011 00:57 Tackster wrote:On March 29 2011 10:58 GGQ wrote:
The argument that Tackster can't be mafia because he didn't know coagulation had the gun is fundamentally flawed. There's one thing that everyone, including coagulation, seems to be forgetting.
Coagulation claimed that he had a stun gun that would disable his target's power. That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potato so that it wouldn't blow up and kill the other scum who was assigned to shoot annul. Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting him. That fact that Coagulation ended up shooting annul was completely accidental by the mafia.
Thus the 4 kp are as follows:
Red hit annul
Red hit Kav or Gmarshal
Black hit Kav or Gmarshal
Coag hit Tackster, but was redirected by scum to hit annul because scum thought that his stun gun would stop annul's potato from killing the scum who killed annul.
GG lynch Tackster That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potatoThis is not how the stun gun was claimed to work
Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting him
This has already been proved not to make me scummy. Tonnes of town would have stolen from jackal too.
Seeing as there was no way scum thought that controlling coag to 'use' his item on annul could have worked this disproves the theory entirely!
I've already explained why it would be bad town play for you to steal from jackal. Even if you think that is true given how the stun gun was claimed to work how does your theory make sense? [/i]
I don't just think it's true, it is true. See this post that you never responded to before:
+ Show Spoiler +[B]On March 28 2011 16:36 GGQ wrote: Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 15:45 Tackster wrote:On March 28 2011 15:43 GGQ wrote:On March 28 2011 15:27 Tackster wrote:On March 28 2011 15:20 GGQ wrote:
Also, I was gonna point out what Chaoser or Coagulation pointed out above.
If you are town, stealing Jackal's item was retarded. The town thing to do would be to role-check someone. If you lived or died, you would be giving the town some great information. The much simpler explanation is that you are red. By your standards: Situation 1: I DT check and get shot. Town now has more reason to lynch Jackal (GOOD) Situation 2: I DT check and some1 else gets shot. I 'claim' a check on Jackal that can't be confirmed and we end up in this situation. (BAD) Situation 3: I steal and get the gun. We're now in the same situation as yesterday except town gets to lynch instead of leaving the kill to someone else (VERY GOOD) Situation 4: I steal and don't get gun. I am shot. Same situation as 1. (GOOD) Situation 5: I steal and don't get gun. I am not shot. We are now in this position.(BAD) So a DT check either has 50% chance for the positive result you're looking for or 50% this situation comes up. A steal on the other hand has a 66% chance for a positive result or 33% this situation comes up. Your logic is poor because you assume that each situation has an equal chance of playing out under each scenario. LOL actually I stated by your standards. I was being pessimistic. By my standards the chances are much higher... You realise you're implying the situation YOU suggested would be worse for town right? Lastly my stats would be poor not my logic and unlike the other players in this thread that can't confirm their abilities I can confirm when I state I am good at stats. Theoretical Physics is not an easy degree to get! Perhaps not, but it has little to do with stats. For the rest of this post, I feel like you are mixed up in both your semantics and logic, but I'm just going to leave all that alone and try to be more clear. What I meant is that you are just looking at some percentages without taking the context of the game into account. Let's assume you are a green. You know that all the other townies in the IG want you dead. You know that most of the town has you pegged as scum and wants you dead. Given that your death would NOT result in town losing the item game (there's not enough KP floating around for that), there's no reason for you to try to stay alive. As long as you are around, covered in scum and drawing votes your way, you'll just distract town from finding the real scum tomorrow. If someone is going to shoot you, then you thank them and look forward to seeing jackal hang the next day. Furthermore, on the chance that you might survive (hey, you never know; it's insane mafia! look at what you are claiming now... you are a green and someone out there somewhere decided to save your ass) you would use your DT check item because you know how valuable a DT check is for town. Even if it's not from a trusted source (you)... you know you are going to die soon (most likely to a lynch the next day) so then town will know your check was true. In that situation, any town with killing power would very much like to know whether or not jackal is scum going into night 2. Instead you have simply shrugged off a DT check from you, saying that it wouldnt be trusted (guilty conscience?). Finally, on to why your logic was just bad. Take a look back at all those "situations" you listed. Compare your 'bad' situation (5) to your 'very good' one (3). The only difference between these two situations is that you have the gun in the 'very good' one. Seriously. Not only is that bad logic, it's also a possible scumslip in wanting the gun for yourself. TL;DR stealing instead of inspecting was very anti-town
I'd particularly like a response to my third point there. According to you, if you steal the gun and survive, that's VERY GOOD. If you fail to steal the gun and survive, that's BAD. Wuddup wit dat?
And yes, it seems I was mistaken about the stun gun, I remembered it being a simple roleblocker. Perhaps the mafia were hoping that if annul's potato blew up the mafia shooting him, at least it would take Coagulation along with them?
The main problem I have with the idea of anyone else in the IG being red is that they knew Coagulation had the gun and Bum insists that it was red who shot annul (a tracker among the blues perhaps? I dunno). I'm depending on both of these things being true, so Bum had better be damn sure. If jackal, coagulation or lemonwalrus were red, then they would know that Coagulation's shot would kill annul. In fact this would be perfect because they kill annul without risking one of their members to the random potato explosion. BUT red also shot annul. Why would reds possibly risk one of their members to the potato if they knew annul was going to die from Coagulation's shot? The only answer is that they didn't know, which means that the red in the IG must be the only person who didn't know that Coagulation had the gun, which is you.
Of course, it's conceivable that it was the blacks who misdirected Coagulation's shot to annul. But the blacks didn't know Coagulation had the gun either. If they misdirected Coagulation, they were misdirecting his stun gun. And the only reason that they would do that was if they were trying to shoot him and didn't want him to stun their shooter. And obviously they didn't try to shoot him (nor would they have any motivation to, since they are out of the item game). So it couldn't have been the blacks.
PS, if you mosey on over to the voting thread, you'll see I still havent voted for you. I'm not unreasonable or jumping to conclusions here.
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Check my last post, Tackster!
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On March 30 2011 04:32 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 04:30 deconduo wrote:On March 30 2011 04:28 Jackal58 wrote:On March 30 2011 04:25 Tackster wrote:On March 30 2011 04:21 Jackal58 wrote:On March 30 2011 04:15 tnkted wrote:
If we do mislynch I think I have to bus somebody out so that we have a chance of winning it at all. But if bum wants me not to I can switch some other stuff around. If you must bus bus all actions from Coag to me. Lemon has his vest but if we mislynch he wont get shot anyways. Cause he's scum. And serious as a heart attack I will have coag shoot me. Town doesn't need another fucking day of no you - no you - no you - no you. So medic protect coag. Bus from coag to me. Coag shoots me. Lynch Lemon. I am not about to go through all this bs and let scum get dt tools. But we're not going to mislynch. But that's plan B Sorry if coag shoots you and you two are bussed coag shoots himself. wtf is that? Bus driver doesn't reverse actions. It drives any visits to coag to the bussed target - me. It doesn't boomerang. Actions on coag get moved to you. Actions on you get moved to coag. Actions on you: Getting shot Actions on coag: Getting mediced. Result: Coag dies, you get medic protection. Bus is one way. Any visits to Coag would go to me. Including medic so ya let's not do that. Actions on me do not go to Coag.
Bus is not one way, jackal. Any actions on you would go to Coag, and any actions on Coag would go to you.
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If the bus driver is going to bus someone in the IG (assuming Tackster is a mislynch), then he needs to not reveal the other person he is bussing. Else scum can just hit the other person and get their kill.
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I could live with the voting list being entirely one-sided. It's not worthwhile for mafia to out their whole team just on the chance that they might not be eliminated from the item game quite yet.
But the fact that jackal isn't spamming like an asshole makes me nervous.
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On March 30 2011 06:17 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 05:26 chaoser wrote:
LSB, are blacks immune to bombs such as the hot potato?
I don't know if blacks are, usually they're immune to night hits which are bullets, not explosions like bombs. Third party are immune from all KP unless explicitly stated that the KP can go through bulletproof. In this case since the bomb did not state it goes through bulletproof, the third party is immune from it.
That's really different from regular bulletproof tbh... probably should have been stated in the OP. I've been operating on the assumption that they are just 'bullet' proof.
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Yeah, it was Insanious in XXXV. I listened to him and voted Brocket.
Anyways, if you think I'm black, tnkted, you havent looked over all my posts. I was one of the first suggesting darmousseh for bum's day 1 lynch while most people were still on annul/jackal/tackster.
Yeah, I fucked up yesterday, but I was working under a couple of assumptions that I found out were both wrong only a few hours before the lynch. I wasn't comfortable switching at that point. Sorry, Tackster.
GL to our IG townies tonight.
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On March 31 2011 11:07 LSB wrote:
Night post calculations may take a while, you guys just broke Physics FYI
Take your time, make sure you get it right.
Meanwhile, I'll f5 til my finger falls off.
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My head hurts =/
iGrok was clearly blue btw.
Also, someone thought that bumatlarge was unprotected now, but chaoser was only bg for the king, not for the mayor. Also, afaik the king could have a third bg. We don't know how many are in the kingdom.
Hopefully LSB clears up what's going on with the Arena Game soon.
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Oh alright. Well if Insanious had to kill off BB and BB had to kill off Insanious, what is RoL/Pandain doing in there?
Maybe it was a three way village idiot scenario? We'll need BB and Pandain to clear this up. It would explain why RoL has done so little to help town, though.
I guess the best way to use the Arena game is to vote in someone we think is scum and have our two town members of the Arena vote the scum person off. Gives town two lynches, basically. Can the people in the Arena be night-killed?
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Also, the Arena Game rules were removed and haven't been put back yet.
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EPT
