EPTTL Mafia XXXVII - Page 80
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
##unvote LastArgument ##Vote: kevconsim | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On March 04 2011 13:49 kevconsim wrote: just a guess You shitting me? 30 players setup, 4 mafia. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On March 04 2011 13:52 LunarDestiny wrote: You shitting me? 30 players setup, 4 mafia. That doesn't even make sense in terms of KP... | ||
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Coagulation
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kevconsim
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On March 04 2011 13:55 kevconsim wrote: I am a Townie Can you comment on who you think are mafia then? Who are the two you think are mafia? | ||
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kevconsim
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On March 04 2011 13:49 kevconsim wrote: just a guess | ||
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Kenpachi
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On March 04 2011 13:49 kevconsim wrote: just a guess lol | ||
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kevconsim
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LastArgument
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On February 23 2011 13:19 GMarshal wrote: for arguments sake going to create analysis cells, use them for informational analysis (even assuming I were scum there is no way) I could ensure each has a mafia member in it as there isn't enough mafia to go around (I am trying to put at least 1 TL vet in each) as the game progresses and people die we can have new cells form. (also you are free to create your own parallel cells) 1. Coagulation, LSB, gryffindor 2 GMarshal, seRapH, OriginalName 3 Mr. Wiggles, ICanFlyLow, kevconsim 4 Barundar, LastArgument , why 5 darmousseh, Ser Aspi, Kenpachi 6 Gofarman, chaoser, ohN 7 astroorion, CubEdIn, Jackal58 8 Beneather, annul, Conversion 9 icemac, Foolishness, LunarDestiny 10 deconduo, kitaman27, JBright This is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good one, discuss Now, before you all rage at A) bringing this back up B) Telling me I’m flat out wrong There is a reason for mentioning this post. Consider it from this point if you may. Had we followed the advice of GM from here, and only pm’d the people we were partnered with, the game instantly changes completely. Anyone within your own circle who dies and flips a role, any analysis done on you by your own partners, etc… Instantly FoS your group. Two people in it die and your left alive for awhile, again, chances are your red. It built a system of which accountability could be had. Why was someone hit, did they reveal their role, etc… Now, it is possible people would get sniped based on in thread performance, but blind hits on players would be a lot more questionable. It also restricts potential leakage of information. Regardless, it would be frightening for mafia to go up against. If you read the thread right after that annul instantly was against it (whos now dead). Lets see who else appears. On February 23 2011 13:25 LunarDestiny wrote: i don't like this. Lets say that 4 groups are contaminated with mafia. Then mafia will know 40% of the info, that is a lot of info and influence for them to work with. On February 23 2011 13:47 gryffindor wrote: Since the reds can manipulate innocents, frame, role-reverse No, there is no straight Godfather in my opinion I'm also very suspicious of this post: This would get us raped by the role reverser, and is really a scummy idea unvote; ##Vote: GMarshal On February 23 2011 17:26 gryffindor wrote: Easily. It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power. If they know you are a Veteran, they can make you a PGO We don't need cells, we have claiming If you want scumhunting, do it yourself The general plan for a town in a whisper/PM setup is 1) Wait on a confirm 2) Massclaim to the confirmed 3) Profit On February 23 2011 18:51 CubEdIn wrote: 'sup gueyz? Just got to work. So I won't post much now. More to come tonight. I did get to skim through the thread a bit and I must say I love the idea of being placed in a cell with Jackal after what we did in Mafia 36.  But yeah I don't think "cells" are a good idea. If you are sharing sensitive information, mafia may know a great deal of it. If you are not, then they don't really have much use. Using the thread for throwing around ideas is much more useful as it can uncover scum faster in case of a slip. Also, Mafia could do things like killing one/two people out of a cell where there's no mafia, and if they flip blue then town will think that the remaining member(s) have to be mafia. And stuff like that. On February 23 2011 19:21 ohN wrote: 'Just finished catching up My thoughts: Cells are a good idea but GMarshal giving us predetermined groups that he thinks we should work with is pretty scummy. They weren't just like 1-3, 4-6 either, he moved them around to his liking. Not a good candidate for day1 lynch because I don't feel that that alone is enough to incriminate him but definitely FoS on him. I dont see how people think + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:40 chaoser wrote: Ok, so like Gmarshal said, we shouldn't depend on blues this game. Especially since RoL specifically said this game was to punish us for what happened in Salam. At the same thing, I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about. PMs are allowed but PLEASE don't just give out crazy info in them (roleclaim, etc.). The point of town is not to have 1 leader controlling everything but small circles that are separated so that if one goes down, the others can still operate. Let's all work together and not let a few players handle all the work (which always seems to happen). This means contributing pleaseee. Him noting that mafia isn't that powerful is something anybody could point out. Role reversal has huge potential but only if mafia has a confirmed blue. They still have to give up an entire kp to use it so they will not be open to using it without being absolutely sure. Role reversal on a townie does nothing except waste a kp. I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't posted anything useful or that guy who thought annul was inactive(lol). These are the major objection posts in relation to the proposed plan. There were a few others who disagreed with it but they are currently dead. Now, of the 3, ohn is the least scummy by post as it’s a FoS, however gryf’s is a downright attack on it, and proceeds to bash the idea. Lunar mentions complaints, then quietly vanishes without ever reappearing. That’s with day 1 getting them on the radar. Lets take a gander of each 1 by 1 LunarDestiny + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2011 06:34 LunarDestiny wrote: I read about the last three pages and found not very strong reasons that Annul is scum. I don't see much scum tell in his vote switch from Chaoser to Gmarshall. Annul did justify his vote on Gmarshall on why his plan is bad. Another thing people keep mentioning is the aggressiveness how Annul is playing which looks like how he played in XXXV where he was scum. The difference is there he was accusing LSB being scum with flawed reasons. This game, he actually justified his vote and did provide reasons unlike the old "LSB postings are spams and have few contributions." I played with Annul many times before and it seems that he is always aggressive on day1. XXXV: Accused LSB mafia because he spams and don't contribute much. Merc Mafia: Claimed medic to me (day vig) and planned to have 100% town victory. Survivor Mafia (ongoing): After the quick 3 people alliance, he rallied and formed the counter 5 people alliance to take control of the game. This game compared to other games I played with Annul, I consider that he is playing less aggressive. This post is prime example of day 1 defending of a dead mafia. It soft claim defends annul. He compares the behaviour of 3 games of annul, 1 red, 2 town. In each of the three games he played very similarly except in game 1 as mafia he used bad logic to get someone killed. The link here is between this current game and that game, he was playing much differently from his town norm, revealing him as red. This would easily be seen from the looking from game as town and game as red of annul, but instead he tries to link all 3 games under the same style, when 1 was definitely different. Misrepresenting the facts is something one would do to defend ones teammate. On February 25 2011 07:58 LunarDestiny wrote: Looked over Annul's posts: 1) He posts are generally short and don't have much content to them. I do find Annul saying Gmarshall is mafia based only on his circle thing is not convincing. 2) This is the part I disagree. Annul did what most people will do in this situation. He attacked someone whom he believe is mafia and defended himself when he was in huge danger of being lynched. If he didn't go after someone, ok... since not everyone got a mafia read on day1. And his defense on himself is normal behavior. To determine if he is really mafia, you have to look at the time when he felt pressured and tried to redirect the lynch to another person (Gmarshall in this case) and if there are any support from others. People did pointed out Gmarshall's circle thing is a horrible idea but no one voted for him after Annul's switch. Again he slightly defends annul here by trying to use a wifom defense for annul, while then redirecting to another player. He also mentions how people pointed out how bad the idea of the circles was, when the major objectors were gryff, annul. Seraph posted against it briefly (flipped red), lunar did, and ohn did. Almost no one else was opposed. Reservations possibly had in that the groups created could have been fixed if gm is red. However, when we know two of the main group flipped up red, and one of which is the person lunar is defending you see a pattern. Now keep in mind he was fairly active in day 1. Lets move on to day 2. On February 27 2011 14:44 LunarDestiny wrote: Back. Catchup time... So mafia are targeting experienced players like they always do. People are talking about annul's lynch and there is a bus on annul. First of all, I don't think mafia would sacrifice one of their member to make others more safe. So those who voted annul early or greatly accused him aren't likely to be mafia. Those who jump onto the bandwagon or voted late without giving good reasons should be looked at. Post doesn’t say much other than recap generally what everyone was talking about, fairly useless. On February 28 2011 07:18 LunarDestiny wrote: Barunder wants to lynch LSB and even is willing to go with sacrificing himself first to prove he is not scum. LSB says Barunder's analysis on him read too much on few posts and contain many WIFOMs. --- First if Barunder is scum and wants town LSB dead, he won't be satisfy being lynched first. His posts after he 3 essay sized posts did not follow up with the aggressive natural of the essay sized posts. If he is mafia, he needs to get LSB lynched before he is lynched. Because he is willing to be lynched first, that just defeats the original point of his essay sized posts if he is mafia. LSB did attacked back Barunder. This is pretty standard play and is very like LSB's play. Look back at XXXV when annul accused LSB as scum with shit posts that didn't make much sense, LSB fought back like how he is now. He justified it as putting some pressure back at his accuser and see if he will slip. Barunder did not and again is willing to be lynched first. To summarize, I don't think Barunder is scum. LSB is playing his standard in terms of his responds (not saying his alignment is town). One additional thing to point out is that they really believe the other is scum. Soft defends barunder here making it seem like a mafia wouldn’t do this tactic as it would “defeat” the purpose of it. However since he’s willing to die first would potentially save him from the towns lynch and get lsb killed anyway. Its wifom stuff, but again soft defending a player for no real reason. Post says nothing knew aside from “I believe x is town” and is a summary. On February 28 2011 09:51 LunarDestiny wrote: Ok. First, I'll admit that my post behavior in this game is weird since I am usually a player who tend to post more than other players. My excuse is being busy. You also pointed out that I posted a lot more in XXXV. That game was after Pokemafia. Although I didn't played that game, lurker killed that game far more than other games. So I debated ways to out lurkers. At the end of the day, I also did jump on to the LSB/Annul case there and kind of justify my vote. I had a lot more to debate there. Lastly the pm thing. Here are the whole pm chain I had with Foolishness: I did exactly what you asked. I called Annul out other than tell him to give reason why he changed his vote to see if his reason is logical or not. You said that I didn't want to take a side. I refuse to finalize my vote for a player if I don't reason to believe he is scum (however, I do support in putting pressure vote to get people talking). I explained why i don't think annul is scum. Tell me what other side there are except voting annul. At that time, the other two highest vote players (icemac and icanflylow) have 4 votes and their votes are pretty much lurker/inactive votes. I voted icemac to get him talking. Defense of himself after being accused, in which he said he refused to finalize his vote for a player he didn’t think was scum, then foolishness called him out with On February 28 2011 10:07 LunarDestiny wrote: Wow, that is 100% what I actually said... Yes, I only called annul out. What I tried to do is to ask annul for reason why he switch his lynch and see if his reason is logical. Give me a break dammit, I reply your post after 6 minutes you sent me the pm. I didn't put much thought in my reply. Fault me for not doing what I promised. Where he admits to agreeing with foolishness on what he promised, and what he delivered was the exact opposite. Clear lie. He has a few more posts trying to justify his actions day 1, but does not contribute clearly to day 2 discussion or lynches past this. He starts the day inactive, then proceeds to post about things that give no solid or productive discussion to the game aside from appearing active. He quickly follows that by getting called out for directly lying in the game and admitting he lied. Interesting. Day 3 On March 01 2011 04:42 LunarDestiny wrote: I'll give my take on this... Posting pm for no reason is a bad thing because it will reveal information to mafia. However, there are many circumstances where posting pm is good. For example, look how Foolishness post his pm with me and find that I didn't do what exactly I promised. That generated one point saying why i am mafia. If he is mafia and I town, and edited the pm, I can denied it and there goes 1 mafia of the two. If I am mafia and he town. If I denied the pm and same 1 mafia out of the two. If both are town, I shouldn't lie. If both are mafia, mafia is stupid. Icemac also gave out all pm before he died. It give additional information for town to work with and town can use those to accuse or defend people. Taking those pms into the grave is not as useful. Your case describes that mafia edit the pm and use them for the late game. This situation only works if the other person mafia is editing the pm from is afk and don't claim the pm is edited. This is huge risk from mafia and certainly mafia would take unless they are desperate. Your other case say that 2 or more mafia talk in circles and post pm to make themselves look good. This case stands because it would be hard to prove these pms wrong. Also even revealing one of them mafia doesn't prove that the other is mafia believe it could very well be legit pm between mafia and town. But if we just compare the pro and con of post pm. i find it is beneficial for them to be posted given there is a reason. So I have to agree with deucenuo on this subject and asking you to describe why it is bad to post pm. Also give your reasons why posting pm is bad. (Does the con outweigh the pro?) Big ass long post saying how one shouldn’t lie in pms if one is town. However, he was found to be lying from his intereaction with foolishness. This makes him subject of If I am mafia and he town. If I denied the pm and same 1 mafia out of the two. If both are town, I shouldn't lie. If he was town he would have helped foolishness in the way he promised instead of doing the exact opposite (in fact lunar was annuls staunchest defender day 1). He knew if he denied the pm completely it would give himself up as red, then stated as town he shouldn’t lie, in which he did. Why did he lie? To defend his scum buddy annul. On March 01 2011 13:04 LunarDestiny wrote: This post's purpose is to ask jackal to describe what he meant. If I respond to you now, that would just make my post pointless. I promise you (not going to forget this time), that I will give you an explanation after jackal respond to my post or deuceuo's post relating to this subject. ok? Says he won’t defend himself until jackal answers first? Why would he be so hesitant to defend himself when he has been so happy to defend others all game? On March 01 2011 18:10 LunarDestiny wrote: Again, I have no response to my irregular posting behavior. I usually post a lot in the thread but I tried to cut my spam to minimum in this game. Comparing this game's activeness and aggressive of scumhunting to my previous game (XXXVII) is tricky. First, I was SK in that game who was protown(reason is TL town generally sucks). Also look at my posts that game. I believe a huge portion of them are me trying to scum hunt with clues. I didn't do much analysis that game. I ask any of you to look at my past games (my profile includes them) and compare them to this game. Compare how many analysis there are and how many of the posts are just spams. The second part is the pm thing. I'll describe what happened, Foolishness can disprove me. If you want the pm chain, refer back near end of day 2. -I found out that I received a pm from Foolishness asking me to vote annul to pressure him. The reason of this pressuring is to compare his playing style here to XXXV where he was scum. -That point, I didn't do much research about annul and explained to Foolishness I can't wagon him because I spent most of my post talking about hating bandwagon. However, I DID say this "However, I can help call Annul out by posting how he is playing like he was in XXXV where his postings are similar since they are not logical.". -He gave an apology pm saying he should read a bit of my post before asking. -This is where I screwed up, I did not do what I said about relating my post to call annul up to XXXV. I just look back at the easily post to call annul out which was the little explained vote change and used that to call him out. -There was no reminder from Foolishness that I didn't do exactly what I said and I quickly forget about it. It is not what I don't want to do. If he give another pm me about I didn't talk XXXV and annul's behavior, I would write another post calling annul out. Man if you guys think that is scum-like, I have nothing to say. Entire defense of WIFOM. If ones defense is purely that, there is the face of their guilt. It just depends if people will eat the block of text and move on. On March 01 2011 19:47 LunarDestiny wrote: First of all, the pm thing I had is with Foolishness and I did not say his posting of the pm to call me out a bad thing. I am fine with it and glad to explain it. Now I ask you to give reason why you think posting pm is bad. To restate my question, give your reasons why posting pm is bad. Does the con outweigh the pro? (find my counter arguments from my post in the pm chain). This is just a simple question. More WIFOM. Not solid defense. On March 02 2011 14:40 LunarDestiny wrote: Took out the damn image... We'll going to have a difference of opinion here. You find it pointless to discuss and I also start to find it bothersome. Gryffindor, in a couple of post above, pretty much responded for you... He described many situations and came up with a conclusion that posting pms is generally bad. His next sentence states it depend on how it was used. This is the part I most agreed with. I will reiterate again that if there should be a reason why the pm is being posted: contradiction found, being lynched, role fishing detected, etc. Your center point was that end game pm posting will screw town up. Again, I find your statement too restricted. Yes, if it is at the point of lynch wrong and lose AND people start popping pms which is powerful enough to demand a lynch, then it will be damn suspicious. I don't remember this happening in the games I played but it could happen and screw town open. If mafia want to guild a mislynch, most of the time they'll just claim dt (ex. XXXVI:bumatlarge->me, insane: Pandain->Kenpachi). ---------------------------------------------------- Response to Ser Aspi: I did that post because I greatly disagree with jackal's attitude towards posting pms. Pretty much every mafia game, there will be someone posting pms and nobody was ever against that (at least that is what I remembered). I seen players posting pms to show alignments after someone from the pm circle dies and I like that. One other reason is depending on Jackal's response, I can look at his previous games and look at where he was town and was he ever impressed or benefited from pm being posted. From the recent games where jackal and I were in where town was screwed by pm posting. I might have missed them (don't axe me in games I die early because I don't closely follow the game after I die...), but I am pretty sure there were none. Summarizes posts made from Gryffindor. Responds to ser aspi with WIFOM of why he was waiting on jackals response, but doesn’t actually do the analysis in which he was asked to do. Why would he not do analysis if he is town? What better way to clear yourself. On March 03 2011 05:22 LunarDestiny wrote: So we have three potential lynch targets: Jbright, Seraph, LSB. Jbright who played 1 game on TL don't have much I can use past history that I can based off of. Ser Aspi did compared Jbright's town play in Orpah and found contradictions. But compared to... Seraph who Foolishness did an analysis on, Seraph's lynch is reasoned better. I know that some of the reasons are kind of similar to the reason of my lynch (posting behavior/activeness)... Foolishness's conclusion of Seraph: I do agree that I remember Seraph as someone who is not afraid to speak his mind and it does seem weird in this game where his posts are pretty calm. I also agree that mafia would prefer to watch and not to slip if they are not forced to post. The other reason Foolishness brought up is Seraph was "bored" after the game started and even if he hasn't gotten a blue role as town, he should be excited for this game after town got 1 mafia lynched on day1. I skim through Seraph's post and found many of his earlier posts are short/one liner. But he did say on his post "498" that he wasted his 6666 post and way later on his post "644," he indicated that he is playing a lot in pm land. If that is the case, then he wasn't "bored" and was more active than what it seemed on the thread. I want to ask if people can justify that they were having pm conversation with Seraph. Although if Seraph is mafia, other mafia can lie and justify this reason but if enough people justify for Seraph, I doubt they are all mafia. This can also be used later on to group people together. The last person is LSB. The first reason is he surviving after two night. The second night is more suspicious since a medic was killed a night before. I understand this is not a strong reason but should take into consideration later on because I do find it weird that mafia is not trying to gun down the 1 of the 2 top player. The next reason is the KP contradiction: It doesn't make sense at all. No vig claimed yet and there is no incentive for not claiming. They already shot and will only act as vanilla townie. The benefit of justifying the KP issue is way more than absorbing a kill as vanilla townie. People already mentioned that the KP do not adds up. I find it especially weird on day on night 1, there were 3 deaths. On night 2, there were 3 deaths (none claimed by vig) and 2 roleblock claims. Therefore if the roleblock claims are true, it indicates that mafia have more than 2.5 KP. I have no idea why won't mafia spend the extra KP on the extra kill. Also what happened that the missing KP on night 1 if mafia do have so many KPs. Again, not using these KP on extra kill but on other powers is a waste. I want to point out that Jackal also claimed being roleblocked. LSB shouldn't be voted only because of this KP contradiction It just doesn't make sense at all and I hope an explanation can be made. If we were able to justify the case, I would like to fall back to voting Seraph. Those who pmed with Seraph, please claimed. You don't have to post the pms if you don't want to, but at least describe how much you interacted with Seraph. Summarizing the game day to this point. Anyone reading the thread would actually know how it reached this point. Instead of offering anything insightful he instead just recaps the day. So far pretty useless. On March 03 2011 09:41 LunarDestiny wrote: Well, we haven't reach an answer to the KP contradiction case and I am not convinced LSB is scum. I would prefer to wait one more night to have a greater grasp of mafia's KP. If LSB is town, that alone adds pressure to mafia. Also, I don't want to divert the lynch of Jbright and Seraph. I'll fall back to voting Seraph. ##VOTE: Seraph Jumps on a bandwagon that flipped a red, still no providing any insightful posting or analysis of his own. On March 03 2011 09:50 LunarDestiny wrote: Also, I don't find Jbright's case stronger than Seraph. Jbright's case was based on orpah and this game where Seraph was based on of three games. Jbright losing his will to play is what expected from newer players. Yes, mafia can also use this as excuse to lurk. But when a newer player is pressured and accused, it is reasonable that they lose their will to play (I did it on my third game where for the first time, a huge post was thrown at me). I do have a reason that Jbright is a better lynch and I don't think they were mentioned. Seraph's posts were better and more analyzable. On the other hand, Jbright pretty much given up. Mentions he would prefer to have jbright killed over seraph (seraph flipped red) this is a subtle defense but believe since a player gave up the other should be killed. Defends the person he votes for, odd behaviour. If you think someone is red you should be pushing them, or at least analyzing them (he fails to provide his reason for why he finds jbright more likely to be red than seraph). Summary of Lunars posting all game is that of a player who has defended mafia all game, has yet to solidly contribute to the game. There has been no analysis, just defense of players (two of which red), a wall of wifom defense and general lack of real activity. For someone who says they are town, would they not be contributing more heavily rather than appearing to contribute? It is clear that through the blatent acts of defending mafia and lack of real contribution that he is red. Lynch him. Ohn + Show Spoiler + Day 1 On February 23 2011 19:21 ohN wrote: 'Just finished catching up My thoughts: Cells are a good idea but GMarshal giving us predetermined groups that he thinks we should work with is pretty scummy. They weren't just like 1-3, 4-6 either, he moved them around to his liking. Not a good candidate for day1 lynch because I don't feel that that alone is enough to incriminate him but definitely FoS on him. I dont see how people think + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:40 chaoser wrote: Ok, so like Gmarshal said, we shouldn't depend on blues this game. Especially since RoL specifically said this game was to punish us for what happened in Salam. At the same thing, I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about. PMs are allowed but PLEASE don't just give out crazy info in them (roleclaim, etc.). The point of town is not to have 1 leader controlling everything but small circles that are separated so that if one goes down, the others can still operate. Let's all work together and not let a few players handle all the work (which always seems to happen). This means contributing pleaseee. Him noting that mafia isn't that powerful is something anybody could point out. Role reversal has huge potential but only if mafia has a confirmed blue. They still have to give up an entire kp to use it so they will not be open to using it without being absolutely sure. Role reversal on a townie does nothing except waste a kp. I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't posted anything useful or that guy who thought annul was inactive(lol). On February 23 2011 19:23 ohN wrote: Oh yeah and gryff claiming vet? wtf why would you do that? On February 25 2011 10:26 ohN wrote: Icemac is probably town. Bad d1 lynch target. Looks more like a bad/aggressive player than scum. I'm still not convinced annul is a good lynch. Annul's not pushing GM that hard, he simply pointed out that GM had a bad idea and is calling him out on it. I don't think he ever said "GM is clear mafia." GM DID propose an arguably terrible plan; how come nobody else is calling him out for that? Annul's not looking any more scum than GM here in my eyes. Barundar's accusation of Jackal is definitely not convincing but it's not utter crap either. It's an interesting point to look back to in the near future. Slight FoS on Jackal imo. And finally, why is gryff not getting lynched? Blatant lie here. Wait what. ##Vote: gryffindor On February 26 2011 08:46 ohN wrote: Woah annul was mafia? o.O Somehow, I didn't expect that... I'll put in more analysis once day2 hits, doesn't seem worth it to type up my thoughts at the moment when day2 results could just turn them all sideways. This is all from day 1. He posts suspicion on Gryff based on the sketchiness of gryff’s play over day 1, as well as votes for him. However, in the full day 1 period he posted 4 times. Of these posts they seem pro townish, as he shows that when he appears he can post really good detail. He however disagrees with gm’s plan in execution not so much theory. But as it was something he didn’t attempt to fix he lands here. Day 2 On February 28 2011 09:35 ohN wrote: Wow, a lot happened when I was gone. I still don't understand why we're voting icemac. He doesn't look scummy at all. Like, yeah, he posted about 0 analysis and opinion but that holds true for a lot of other people too. 'Just looks like a scapegoat that mafia are trying to redirect lynches too. Between LSB and Barundar I doubt either of them are mafia. If one of them is, it's LSB. Can't really say why I think that and there's so many pages that I just read but yeah, that's my take on the situation. So, who to vote for.. I still think gryff is suspicious, although that might just be because of his weird playstyle. I'd rather have gryff lynched than icemac to be honest. Reading through, Foolishness's post like 2-3 above this has a good point and since I don't think LSB/Barundar/icemac are mafia, there goes my vote. ##Vote: LunarDestiny That is all he posts for day 2. Literally 1 post. He posts he would rather see gryff die but rather than make another case for him as a target he hops onto a bandwagon. Then proceedes to vanish for the day. He reappears Day 3 On March 03 2011 11:43 ohN wrote: Oh man i was so busy these past few days and i completely forgot i was playing. D: ##Vote: ohN Sorry, I'll catch up asap. Since that post he has once again vanished and has yet to post. He has shown since day 1 that rather than actually playing the game he has instead opted to lurk his way through the game. One does not have to post frequently if their posts are decently made however he has shown a general lack of effort past day 1 to even make a post rather than feigning activity. As he had yet to do any solid analysis, or even keep attention of detail of the game it leads me to believe he is red. Why? Because he displayed what he is capable of day 1, but has since vanished and yet to carry on with the ability he has already shown. Why would he stop analyzing? Why would he stop contributing? Possibly because the more active a mafia has been so far the faster they have been caught? With all this done, I will build a case for gryff later, but this took me forever to type so I am going to bed. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
You haven't defended yourself against the analysis of you, or explained how you survived a hit, which seems pretty relevant. I don't even know why mafia would target you. Too many questions, to add to the pressure: #Vote LastArgument If a vigi did hit LA, please claim? | ||
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gryffindor
United States524 Posts
he was on annul, at least | ||
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gryffindor
United States524 Posts
On March 04 2011 12:19 Foolishness wrote: GG hey, what's funny is I was going to just type "GG" if i died. great minds think alike, bro. On March 04 2011 12:53 bumatlarge wrote: gg lol high fives foolishness o/ o/ vote: LastArgument I believe mafia went against their own KP to give LA a good claim I believe kevconsim's chewbacca defense If LA is town, I am suspicious of ohN. I am also believing if I die, you all should investigate the JBright wagon. Cop/Detectives, it is time to claim, in my honest opinion you have had multiple nights of investigations to make clears creating town clears is very pro town, and will help us | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I will respond to this first, even though nobody followed-along. I don't want to be accused of trying to sweep it under the carpet. On March 04 2011 08:11 why wrote: Day 1: All throughout Day 1 Cubedin tries to say that annul isn't the best lynch while at the same time making sure he joins the wagon once it reaches the sweet-spot of after the point of no return but before it look way scummy to join the wagon. He also refuses to commit to an opinion. I always try to vote once, as I don't like changing my vote. That's why I do it in the last 12 hours of the day or so. Also, during the last 4-5 I am most likely asleep, maybe that's why I hit the "sweet spot" you are mentioning. But it was the first day, and nobody out-right defended annul, so you can't really say that I'm mafia because I soft-defended him. I defended others as well, and I always went on the idea of "let's not be 100% sure, because we can't ever be sure". On March 04 2011 08:11 why wrote: and also attacks the latest addition to the annul bandwagon, Ser Aspi, with this: Ser Aspi, I don't like. Mostly because he's being very quiet and just comes up with a FoS + Vote. Nobody is questioning that, and that always made me suspicious. However, he did pin down Seraph, so i'm fairly sure he is town at this point. I never really FoSed Jackal though. Not intentionally anyway. On March 04 2011 08:11 why wrote: The points he makes are fairly valid, but he is clearly arguing against the annul lynch at this point. Note that he also throws 2 FoS's around (on Ser Aspi and Jackal) and then backs off them by saying that we should vote for people off one or two votes. In other words, he is being extremely indecisive and wants to leave his options open. Definitely something a scum waiting to see how the wind blows on annul would post. (sorry about not reply directly under some posts, I'm trying to hurry-up here, but I think this is understandable) On March 04 2011 08:11 why wrote: Note that he spends the first half of the post getting worked up about being told he should bandwagon. I interpret this as the real CubedIn, he doesn't like to bandwagon unless he has been convinced that the vote is best for town. Then, as he himself acknowledges, he goes against his own tendencies to vote for annul even though he still doesn't think its the best lynch: So, why would he do this? Well, one explanation is that no one is scummier exists (although I think he says in the quote above that icemac is more likely mafia than annul, pretty sure there's a typo somewhere). The better explanation that fits all the data is that Cubed is mafia and wants to get on the annul bandwagon since it is really likely annul will be lynched. You're half right here, but you're taking it out of context. I did this not once, but twice. The day 2 vote was not one of my primary targets either. If you'll look at some posts you'll see that I stated that I find others (OriginalName, Chaoser) scummier, but I didn't want to have vote-spreads. Now I admit I was wrong about ON, and probably Ser Aspi, but even if I would have gone with my guts and voted for them, you will have said that I tried to keep away from making a decision. The same goes for day 3. I wanted to kill one of JBright or Seraph. I thought there is more proof pointing towards JBright and I explained this, thoroughly. I never tried to soft-defend Seraph, or derail the lynch. In fact, I went to bed quite early, and the votes were almost even. I expected vigs to hit the other target anyway (and I actually asked for this in the thread), so I didn't really care who was being lynched. Also, I might remind you that you don't really know if JBright is scum or not. If he flips red, your whole argument goes down in flames. On March 04 2011 08:11 why wrote: To start with, CubedIn needs to make a vote at this point because he is leaving for the night. As mafia, he needs to vote for JBright at this point because it was close between JBright and Seraph. Of course he could just be a town voting for the wrong person. However, this explanation doesn't hold up as we realize that Cubed can't come up with many reasons to vote JBright. Reasons 1 and 2 are both questionable reasons at best and 3 is essentially saying why Seraph isn't likely mafia. Never does Cubed actually come up with a reason that JBright is mafia based on JB's actual posts, when this is the first thing a townie would do. And then, in the last paragraph, Cubed says that we should continue to look at Seraph after the lynch. This covers him in case Seraph dies and makes him sound like he was almost suspicious enough of Seraph to vote him, but was just a little more suspicious of JBright. In other words, it is a way to distance himself from his own opinion. Again, I never said that we should not vote Seraph. I tried to explain why I voted for Jbright, but you are saying that the reasons are not solid enough. What exactly would you want me to post? I have no actual proof that either of them is mafia. I went through the thread, I read the accusations on them brought by other players, I counted their posts, etc, and I found JB to be the better lynch. On March 04 2011 08:11 why wrote: And here Cubed pushes for JBright a bit, but again not hard enough to arouse suspicion should Seraph get lynched. For someone who thinks that a Seraph/JBright lynch is pretty much a wash, he seemed to be pushing for JBright pretty hard. Conclusion: Cubedin acted the same in both scum lynches: holding off until the last possible minute to give a solid opinion while subtly defending the scum. He then makes the best possible mafia vote. It could all be coincidence, but given his posting I think he's probably scum. If it were day, I would vote CubedIn. Here is where you kinda twist things around: I never said that the lynch is a wash. If anything, I was claiming that both of them are scum. I guess that if JB flips red, I'm somewhat cleared, but even without killing JB you should realize that that's the "timing" I have for votes in all mafias so far. I just don't like being wishy-washy and voting for someone unless I'm trying to vote for pressure not vote for lynch. But you are right about one thing, I may have looked like I'm subtly defending people. I will try not to do that in the future, and be either completely for or completely against. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
First of all: regarding the cells: I am not good at playing a PM game. You can ask everyone to come out, the only one I talked to via PMs was GMarshal. I would much rather post everything in the thread. The only other PM I got was from gryph: who are your town reads/scumreads? who would you be happiest lynching of your scumreads? why? I didn't bother replying, as it was a PM that had no essence. He's not sharing any information, and just asking me for my "reads". If I want to post something about someone, I'll do it in the thread, thank you. Also: On March 04 2011 17:48 gryffindor wrote: hey, what's funny is I was going to just type "GG" if i died. great minds think alike, bro. Again, trying to be subtly associated with Foolishness. I am also believing if I die, you all should investigate the JBright wagon. Because we know Jbright is green and we should lynch all who voted for him? Cop/Detectives, it is time to claim, in my honest opinion you have had multiple nights of investigations to make clears creating town clears is very pro town, and will help us Yeah, no. Detectives should only claim if they found one scum (considering there are what, 4 more left, if there were 6 to begin with? it also explains KP (3 scum = 1,5kp + GF = 1 kp, total 2,5KP - 3 kills). So it would be a trade for a detective for a scum. Even better, detective should claim to one person whom he trusts the most via PM. That person can just post what the detective said. He will have to post it even if he's mafia, otherwise there will be a lot of suspicion on him. Statistically speaking, DT has a better chance of claiming to town. If he openly claims, then he's most likely dead, even with a medic on them (because let's face it, I'm pretty sure Foolishness was protected, but he died anyway). So no, you seem awfully scummy to me at this point Gryph. As for the lynch, I will take my time before voting (lololol), as I'm more confused as to why mafia chose to go for bumatlarge. As much as I'd like to jump on LastArgument, there's a chance that he's just a townie who got green role and got really bored, and just stopped caring. The only think that makes me vote for him right now is the fact that both Foolishness and Ser Aspi picked him. If anything, the fact that he "failed to vote for either mafia" makes me think he's town, as Mafia bussed Annul, and perhaps Seraph as well. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On March 04 2011 13:12 LastArgument wrote: for all the excitement from this game and looking at the last page and seeing two giant writeup's on me I am amused. One of you guys / mafia failed pretty hard. I took a hit last night. So here's the thing: a) He's lying to prove himself as town - unlikely, unless he's playing the "let's hope town thinks there's one missing KP" b) He's telling the truth, thus he's a vet. (I really, really doubt medics would protect him). So either: medics did not protect either of the three, or, there was a vig going for one of them, and the mafia stacked Foolishness. I find it really hard to believe that mafia did not stack Foolishness. Unless they KNEW medic was not on him. Did any medic claim to anyone and told them who he'll defend? If so, you should really consider that mafia knew you were not on Foolishness. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
As for the lynch, I will take my time before voting (lololol), as I'm more confused as to why mafia chose to go for bumatlarge. How does that sentence even make sense?  If anything, the fact that he "failed to vote for either mafia" makes me think he's town, as Mafia bussed Annul, and perhaps Seraph as well. That's the first time I hear you say that it was a bus? Care to elaborate? Did any medic claim to anyone and told them who he'll defend? You fishing for medics? Really, I'm having a hard time understanding your "confused" posts. You are confused that bum got killed, but you aren't confused mafia decides to hit a guy who by means of posting during the night was almost guranteed to be a topic today. And you seem really willing to believe him to boot. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On March 04 2011 15:16 LastArgument wrote: LunarDestiny + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2011 06:34 LunarDestiny wrote: I read about the last three pages and found not very strong reasons that Annul is scum. I don't see much scum tell in his vote switch from Chaoser to Gmarshall. Annul did justify his vote on Gmarshall on why his plan is bad. Another thing people keep mentioning is the aggressiveness how Annul is playing which looks like how he played in XXXV where he was scum. The difference is there he was accusing LSB being scum with flawed reasons. This game, he actually justified his vote and did provide reasons unlike the old "LSB postings are spams and have few contributions." I played with Annul many times before and it seems that he is always aggressive on day1. XXXV: Accused LSB mafia because he spams and don't contribute much. Merc Mafia: Claimed medic to me (day vig) and planned to have 100% town victory. Survivor Mafia (ongoing): After the quick 3 people alliance, he rallied and formed the counter 5 people alliance to take control of the game. This game compared to other games I played with Annul, I consider that he is playing less aggressive. This post is prime example of day 1 defending of a dead mafia. It soft claim defends annul. He compares the behaviour of 3 games of annul, 1 red, 2 town. In each of the three games he played very similarly except in game 1 as mafia he used bad logic to get someone killed. The link here is between this current game and that game, he was playing much differently from his town norm, revealing him as red. This would easily be seen from the looking from game as town and game as red of annul, but instead he tries to link all 3 games under the same style, when 1 was definitely different. Misrepresenting the facts is something one would do to defend ones teammate. I did not misrepresented the facts. Before that post, town was accusing annul on a bad reason: aggressiveness. I found annul being less aggressive than the games I played with him. I was showing that annul play aggressive regardless he is town or mafia and that shouldn't be the reason why he is lynch. You stating that the games are in different setups just further shows Annul plays aggressively regardless of game setup and he is an aggressive player. On February 25 2011 07:58 LunarDestiny wrote: Looked over Annul's posts: 1) He posts are generally short and don't have much content to them. I do find Annul saying Gmarshall is mafia based only on his circle thing is not convincing. 2) This is the part I disagree. Annul did what most people will do in this situation. He attacked someone whom he believe is mafia and defended himself when he was in huge danger of being lynched. If he didn't go after someone, ok... since not everyone got a mafia read on day1. And his defense on himself is normal behavior. To determine if he is really mafia, you have to look at the time when he felt pressured and tried to redirect the lynch to another person (Gmarshall in this case) and if there are any support from others. People did pointed out Gmarshall's circle thing is a horrible idea but no one voted for him after Annul's switch. Again he slightly defends annul here by trying to use a wifom defense for annul, while then redirecting to another player. He also mentions how people pointed out how bad the idea of the circles was, when the major objectors were gryff, annul. Seraph posted against it briefly (flipped red), lunar did, and ohn did. Almost no one else was opposed. Reservations possibly had in that the groups created could have been fixed if gm is red. However, when we know two of the main group flipped up red, and one of which is the person lunar is defending you see a pattern. Now keep in mind he was fairly active in day 1. Lets move on to day 2. You keep bring up that I defend annul. Yes, I did. I will admit that I misread annul and didn't vote for him. Look at the reasons for my day1 vote, I stated my reasons for not voting annul. Go analyze that post. If I didn't vote for annul and did not give reason for not doing so, that should instead be suspicious. Where is the WIFOM defense you mentioned because I can't find it? I believe there are more opposers than supporters for Gmarshall's circle thing. Reread that part of the thread. On February 27 2011 14:44 LunarDestiny wrote: Back. Catchup time... So mafia are targeting experienced players like they always do. People are talking about annul's lynch and there is a bus on annul. First of all, I don't think mafia would sacrifice one of their member to make others more safe. So those who voted annul early or greatly accused him aren't likely to be mafia. Those who jump onto the bandwagon or voted late without giving good reasons should be looked at. Post doesn’t say much other than recap generally what everyone was talking about, fairly useless. Don't post it if you have nothing to say about the post or are you just noting that you consider the post as a spam post? The post states my reason why I don't think Annul was bussed and grouped some players into 2 categories. On February 28 2011 07:18 LunarDestiny wrote: Barunder wants to lynch LSB and even is willing to go with sacrificing himself first to prove he is not scum. LSB says Barunder's analysis on him read too much on few posts and contain many WIFOMs. --- First if Barunder is scum and wants town LSB dead, he won't be satisfy being lynched first. His posts after he 3 essay sized posts did not follow up with the aggressive natural of the essay sized posts. If he is mafia, he needs to get LSB lynched before he is lynched. Because he is willing to be lynched first, that just defeats the original point of his essay sized posts if he is mafia. LSB did attacked back Barunder. This is pretty standard play and is very like LSB's play. Look back at XXXV when annul accused LSB as scum with shit posts that didn't make much sense, LSB fought back like how he is now. He justified it as putting some pressure back at his accuser and see if he will slip. Barunder did not and again is willing to be lynched first. To summarize, I don't think Barunder is scum. LSB is playing his standard in terms of his responds (not saying his alignment is town). One additional thing to point out is that they really believe the other is scum. Soft defends barunder here making it seem like a mafia wouldn’t do this tactic as it would “defeat” the purpose of it. However since he’s willing to die first would potentially save him from the towns lynch and get lsb killed anyway. Its wifom stuff, but again soft defending a player for no real reason. Post says nothing knew aside from “I believe x is town” and is a summary. It is not wifom. Would mafia post such a big analysis, not following up, and willing to be lynched first. What is the purpose of that post if barunder is mafia? Post nothing new? I posted my reasons why I think Barunder is town and also pointed out it is LSB's usual play style of putting pressure back to his accuser. On February 28 2011 09:51 LunarDestiny wrote: Ok. First, I'll admit that my post behavior in this game is weird since I am usually a player who tend to post more than other players. My excuse is being busy. You also pointed out that I posted a lot more in XXXV. That game was after Pokemafia. Although I didn't played that game, lurker killed that game far more than other games. So I debated ways to out lurkers. At the end of the day, I also did jump on to the LSB/Annul case there and kind of justify my vote. I had a lot more to debate there. Lastly the pm thing. Here are the whole pm chain I had with Foolishness: I did exactly what you asked. I called Annul out other than tell him to give reason why he changed his vote to see if his reason is logical or not. You said that I didn't want to take a side. I refuse to finalize my vote for a player if I don't reason to believe he is scum (however, I do support in putting pressure vote to get people talking). I explained why i don't think annul is scum. Tell me what other side there are except voting annul. At that time, the other two highest vote players (icemac and icanflylow) have 4 votes and their votes are pretty much lurker/inactive votes. I voted icemac to get him talking. Defense of himself after being accused, in which he said he refused to finalize his vote for a player he didn’t think was scum, then foolishness called him out with On February 28 2011 10:07 LunarDestiny wrote: Wow, that is 100% what I actually said... Yes, I only called annul out. What I tried to do is to ask annul for reason why he switch his lynch and see if his reason is logical. Give me a break dammit, I reply your post after 6 minutes you sent me the pm. I didn't put much thought in my reply. Fault me for not doing what I promised. Where he admits to agreeing with foolishness on what he promised, and what he delivered was the exact opposite. Clear lie. He has a few more posts trying to justify his actions day 1, but does not contribute clearly to day 2 discussion or lynches past this. He starts the day inactive, then proceeds to post about things that give no solid or productive discussion to the game aside from appearing active. He quickly follows that by getting called out for directly lying in the game and admitting he lied. Interesting. I responded to these 2 reasons (the pm with foolishness and my activeness) in my previous posts. I still stand by those responses. Day 3 On March 01 2011 04:42 LunarDestiny wrote: I'll give my take on this... Posting pm for no reason is a bad thing because it will reveal information to mafia. However, there are many circumstances where posting pm is good. For example, look how Foolishness post his pm with me and find that I didn't do what exactly I promised. That generated one point saying why i am mafia. If he is mafia and I town, and edited the pm, I can denied it and there goes 1 mafia of the two. If I am mafia and he town. If I denied the pm and same 1 mafia out of the two. If both are town, I shouldn't lie. If both are mafia, mafia is stupid. Icemac also gave out all pm before he died. It give additional information for town to work with and town can use those to accuse or defend people. Taking those pms into the grave is not as useful. Your case describes that mafia edit the pm and use them for the late game. This situation only works if the other person mafia is editing the pm from is afk and don't claim the pm is edited. This is huge risk from mafia and certainly mafia would take unless they are desperate. Your other case say that 2 or more mafia talk in circles and post pm to make themselves look good. This case stands because it would be hard to prove these pms wrong. Also even revealing one of them mafia doesn't prove that the other is mafia believe it could very well be legit pm between mafia and town. But if we just compare the pro and con of post pm. i find it is beneficial for them to be posted given there is a reason. So I have to agree with deucenuo on this subject and asking you to describe why it is bad to post pm. Also give your reasons why posting pm is bad. (Does the con outweigh the pro?) Big ass long post saying how one shouldn’t lie in pms if one is town. However, he was found to be lying from his intereaction with foolishness. This makes him subject of If I am mafia and he town. If I denied the pm and same 1 mafia out of the two. If both are town, I shouldn't lie. If he was town he would have helped foolishness in the way he promised instead of doing the exact opposite (in fact lunar was annuls staunchest defender day 1). He knew if he denied the pm completely it would give himself up as red, then stated as town he shouldn’t lie, in which he did. Why did he lie? To defend his scum buddy annul. Can you stop calling that a lie? I admit that I didn't do what I said I would do. Tell me you never forget about things. Again, look at my responses to the pm thing and understand what actually happened. On March 01 2011 13:04 LunarDestiny wrote: This post's purpose is to ask jackal to describe what he meant. If I respond to you now, that would just make my post pointless. I promise you (not going to forget this time), that I will give you an explanation after jackal respond to my post or deuceuo's post relating to this subject. ok? Says he won’t defend himself until jackal answers first? Why would he be so hesitant to defend himself when he has been so happy to defend others all game? Going to give you an example right now: You did this huge ass post and give ohn and I to respond. Someone analyze your post as bullshit. Would you fight back immediately and lay off ohn and me? Of course not, you are posting this to get responses from ohn and me. On March 01 2011 18:10 LunarDestiny wrote: Again, I have no response to my irregular posting behavior. I usually post a lot in the thread but I tried to cut my spam to minimum in this game. Comparing this game's activeness and aggressive of scumhunting to my previous game (XXXVII) is tricky. First, I was SK in that game who was protown(reason is TL town generally sucks). Also look at my posts that game. I believe a huge portion of them are me trying to scum hunt with clues. I didn't do much analysis that game. I ask any of you to look at my past games (my profile includes them) and compare them to this game. Compare how many analysis there are and how many of the posts are just spams. The second part is the pm thing. I'll describe what happened, Foolishness can disprove me. If you want the pm chain, refer back near end of day 2. -I found out that I received a pm from Foolishness asking me to vote annul to pressure him. The reason of this pressuring is to compare his playing style here to XXXV where he was scum. -That point, I didn't do much research about annul and explained to Foolishness I can't wagon him because I spent most of my post talking about hating bandwagon. However, I DID say this "However, I can help call Annul out by posting how he is playing like he was in XXXV where his postings are similar since they are not logical.". -He gave an apology pm saying he should read a bit of my post before asking. -This is where I screwed up, I did not do what I said about relating my post to call annul up to XXXV. I just look back at the easily post to call annul out which was the little explained vote change and used that to call him out. -There was no reminder from Foolishness that I didn't do exactly what I said and I quickly forget about it. It is not what I don't want to do. If he give another pm me about I didn't talk XXXV and annul's behavior, I would write another post calling annul out. Man if you guys think that is scum-like, I have nothing to say. Entire defense of WIFOM. If ones defense is purely that, there is the face of their guilt. It just depends if people will eat the block of text and move on. I basically explain what happened. Any deviation is lying. People can believe it or not believe it. On March 01 2011 19:47 LunarDestiny wrote: First of all, the pm thing I had is with Foolishness and I did not say his posting of the pm to call me out a bad thing. I am fine with it and glad to explain it. Now I ask you to give reason why you think posting pm is bad. To restate my question, give your reasons why posting pm is bad. Does the con outweigh the pro? (find my counter arguments from my post in the pm chain). This is just a simple question. More WIFOM. Not solid defense. Read the purpose of the post. The post is to ask for an answer out of jackal and not to defend myself with two lines. On March 02 2011 14:40 LunarDestiny wrote: Took out the damn image... We'll going to have a difference of opinion here. You find it pointless to discuss and I also start to find it bothersome. Gryffindor, in a couple of post above, pretty much responded for you... He described many situations and came up with a conclusion that posting pms is generally bad. His next sentence states it depend on how it was used. This is the part I most agreed with. I will reiterate again that if there should be a reason why the pm is being posted: contradiction found, being lynched, role fishing detected, etc. Your center point was that end game pm posting will screw town up. Again, I find your statement too restricted. Yes, if it is at the point of lynch wrong and lose AND people start popping pms which is powerful enough to demand a lynch, then it will be damn suspicious. I don't remember this happening in the games I played but it could happen and screw town open. If mafia want to guild a mislynch, most of the time they'll just claim dt (ex. XXXVI:bumatlarge->me, insane: Pandain->Kenpachi). ---------------------------------------------------- Response to Ser Aspi: I did that post because I greatly disagree with jackal's attitude towards posting pms. Pretty much every mafia game, there will be someone posting pms and nobody was ever against that (at least that is what I remembered). I seen players posting pms to show alignments after someone from the pm circle dies and I like that. One other reason is depending on Jackal's response, I can look at his previous games and look at where he was town and was he ever impressed or benefited from pm being posted. From the recent games where jackal and I were in where town was screwed by pm posting. I might have missed them (don't axe me in games I die early because I don't closely follow the game after I die...), but I am pretty sure there were none. Summarizes posts made from Gryffindor. Responds to ser aspi with WIFOM of why he was waiting on jackals response, but doesn’t actually do the analysis in which he was asked to do. Why would he not do analysis if he is town? What better way to clear yourself. Post where is the WIFOM in the post because I can't find it. Look at how I play in games, I never quote ton of posts and analysis the heck out of them when I am town, mafia, or 3rd party. On March 03 2011 05:22 LunarDestiny wrote: So we have three potential lynch targets: Jbright, Seraph, LSB. Jbright who played 1 game on TL don't have much I can use past history that I can based off of. Ser Aspi did compared Jbright's town play in Orpah and found contradictions. But compared to... Seraph who Foolishness did an analysis on, Seraph's lynch is reasoned better. I know that some of the reasons are kind of similar to the reason of my lynch (posting behavior/activeness)... Foolishness's conclusion of Seraph: I do agree that I remember Seraph as someone who is not afraid to speak his mind and it does seem weird in this game where his posts are pretty calm. I also agree that mafia would prefer to watch and not to slip if they are not forced to post. The other reason Foolishness brought up is Seraph was "bored" after the game started and even if he hasn't gotten a blue role as town, he should be excited for this game after town got 1 mafia lynched on day1. I skim through Seraph's post and found many of his earlier posts are short/one liner. But he did say on his post "498" that he wasted his 6666 post and way later on his post "644," he indicated that he is playing a lot in pm land. If that is the case, then he wasn't "bored" and was more active than what it seemed on the thread. I want to ask if people can justify that they were having pm conversation with Seraph. Although if Seraph is mafia, other mafia can lie and justify this reason but if enough people justify for Seraph, I doubt they are all mafia. This can also be used later on to group people together. The last person is LSB. The first reason is he surviving after two night. The second night is more suspicious since a medic was killed a night before. I understand this is not a strong reason but should take into consideration later on because I do find it weird that mafia is not trying to gun down the 1 of the 2 top player. The next reason is the KP contradiction: It doesn't make sense at all. No vig claimed yet and there is no incentive for not claiming. They already shot and will only act as vanilla townie. The benefit of justifying the KP issue is way more than absorbing a kill as vanilla townie. People already mentioned that the KP do not adds up. I find it especially weird on day on night 1, there were 3 deaths. On night 2, there were 3 deaths (none claimed by vig) and 2 roleblock claims. Therefore if the roleblock claims are true, it indicates that mafia have more than 2.5 KP. I have no idea why won't mafia spend the extra KP on the extra kill. Also what happened that the missing KP on night 1 if mafia do have so many KPs. Again, not using these KP on extra kill but on other powers is a waste. I want to point out that Jackal also claimed being roleblocked. LSB shouldn't be voted only because of this KP contradiction It just doesn't make sense at all and I hope an explanation can be made. If we were able to justify the case, I would like to fall back to voting Seraph. Those who pmed with Seraph, please claimed. You don't have to post the pms if you don't want to, but at least describe how much you interacted with Seraph. Summarizing the game day to this point. Anyone reading the thread would actually know how it reached this point. Instead of offering anything insightful he instead just recaps the day. So far pretty useless. I am stating what is on my mind and how I see the current situation that diverting the lynch to 3 candidates is bad. I gave reasons why LSB should be voted if he is found lying and willing to fall back my vote on Seraph because of his behavior. On March 03 2011 09:41 LunarDestiny wrote: Well, we haven't reach an answer to the KP contradiction case and I am not convinced LSB is scum. I would prefer to wait one more night to have a greater grasp of mafia's KP. If LSB is town, that alone adds pressure to mafia. Also, I don't want to divert the lynch of Jbright and Seraph. I'll fall back to voting Seraph. ##VOTE: Seraph Jumps on a bandwagon that flipped a red, still no providing any insightful posting or analysis of his own. I jump on the wagon when the votes were damn close. I gave reasons why I did that. Before accusing me, look at yourself. On March 03 2011 09:50 LunarDestiny wrote: Also, I don't find Jbright's case stronger than Seraph. Jbright's case was based on orpah and this game where Seraph was based on of three games. Jbright losing his will to play is what expected from newer players. Yes, mafia can also use this as excuse to lurk. But when a newer player is pressured and accused, it is reasonable that they lose their will to play (I did it on my third game where for the first time, a huge post was thrown at me). I do have a reason that Jbright is a better lynch and I don't think they were mentioned. Seraph's posts were better and more analyzable. On the other hand, Jbright pretty much given up. Mentions he would prefer to have jbright killed over seraph (seraph flipped red) this is a subtle defense but believe since a player gave up the other should be killed. Defends the person he votes for, odd behaviour. If you think someone is red you should be pushing them, or at least analyzing them (he fails to provide his reason for why he finds jbright more likely to be red than seraph). READ DAMMIT. There are 2 paragraphs (bigger paragraph and smaller paragraph). In the bigger paragraph, I said why Seraph is a better lynch. Only in the smaller paragraph, I give a counter reason why Jbright is a better lynch Summary of Lunars posting all game is that of a player who has defended mafia all game, has yet to solidly contribute to the game. There has been no analysis, just defense of players (two of which red), a wall of wifom defense and general lack of real activity. For someone who says they are town, would they not be contributing more heavily rather than appearing to contribute? It is clear that through the blatent acts of defending mafia and lack of real contribution that he is red. Lynch him. I defended mafia all game? Yes, I defend annul. Yes, there are like 2 of instances I defend Seraph. I defended others too. Again, I don't quote shit loads of post and analyze them. I like to summarize people's behaviors and use some posts to arrive to my conclusion. Don't say WIFOMs without point where they are. Don't understand what you meant by "general lack of real activity." | ||
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