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On November 01 2010 15:04 Fishball wrote:
Speaking of lies, we need to look back whoever started this. All this could just be a ploy.
I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this.
I think everyone became distrustful of mods when orgolove died. It seems any sort of mod deception is limited to role mechanics and that it would be hinted at in the role itself. It was hinted at in orgoloves role with the mere name "ADD doctor".
I searched "mod lie" and didn't really get any early results that came back with anything.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:04 Fishball wrote:
Speaking of lies, we need to look back whoever started this. All this could just be a ploy.
I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this.
TBH I think I might have started it, based on the fact that orgolove's role PM said he had a 10% chance to kill his target but it was actually 0%. However, I've also stated multiple times that Artanis wouldn't like about something that consequential, like the number of bodyguards. That would make the game far too hard.
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Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone.
This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones.
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On November 01 2010 15:07 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 15:04 Fishball wrote:
Speaking of lies, we need to look back whoever started this. All this could just be a ploy.
I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this. TBH I think I might have started it, based on the fact that orgolove's role PM said he had a 10% chance to kill his target but it was actually 0%. However, I've also stated multiple times that Artanis wouldn't like about something that consequential, like the number of bodyguards. That would make the game far too hard.
I should clarify this.
You obviously knew better, and explained with reason after wards like you said. But it is very possible that other players would use this opportunity, and add the "mods might be lying" element into the mix of debate and arguments. This would definitely complicate things a lot and cause a lot of confusion.
These are the people we want to look at.
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On November 01 2010 15:08 youngminii wrote:
Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone.
This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones.
You're not getting the point.
Reread my original post, the post above, and infinitestory.
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Oh right. There were quite a few. Even I thought the mods were lying because they never said anything about it.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:12 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 15:07 infinitestory wrote:On November 01 2010 15:04 Fishball wrote:
Speaking of lies, we need to look back whoever started this. All this could just be a ploy.
I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this. TBH I think I might have started it, based on the fact that orgolove's role PM said he had a 10% chance to kill his target but it was actually 0%. However, I've also stated multiple times that Artanis wouldn't like about something that consequential, like the number of bodyguards. That would make the game far too hard. I should clarify this. You obviously knew better, and explained with reason after wards like you said. But it is very possible that other players would use this opportunity, and add the "mods might be lying" element into the mix of debate and arguments. This would definitely complicate things a lot and cause a lot of confusion. These are the people we want to look at.
I did a backtrace, and it seems nobody really considered that the mods would lie blatantly until Aeres made his roleclaim. At that point, several people start saying that the mods threw orgolove a curveball, now Aeres claims the mods are lying, what next? Since Aeres has said his claim is fake, we should now put aside the assumption that the mods lie in a manner that would significantly affect gameplay, and perhaps along with it the assumption that there is more than one bodyguard.
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It was really Aeres who came out first and said "mods lied"
since he said straight up "mods lied"
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On November 01 2010 15:23 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 15:12 Fishball wrote:On November 01 2010 15:07 infinitestory wrote:On November 01 2010 15:04 Fishball wrote:
Speaking of lies, we need to look back whoever started this. All this could just be a ploy.
I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this. TBH I think I might have started it, based on the fact that orgolove's role PM said he had a 10% chance to kill his target but it was actually 0%. However, I've also stated multiple times that Artanis wouldn't like about something that consequential, like the number of bodyguards. That would make the game far too hard. I should clarify this. You obviously knew better, and explained with reason after wards like you said. But it is very possible that other players would use this opportunity, and add the "mods might be lying" element into the mix of debate and arguments. This would definitely complicate things a lot and cause a lot of confusion. These are the people we want to look at. I did a backtrace, and it seems nobody really considered that the mods would lie blatantly until Aeres made his roleclaim. At that point, several people start saying that the mods threw orgolove a curveball, now Aeres claims the mods are lying, what next? Since Aeres has said his claim is fake, we should now put aside the assumption that the mods lie in a manner that would significantly affect gameplay, and perhaps along with it the assumption that there is more than one bodyguard.
On November 01 2010 15:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It was really Aeres who came out first and said "mods lied"
since he said straight up "mods lied"
You don't have to come out and say "the mods are lying" to cause confusion. Just by bringing it up, saying "the mods could be lying", will have the same affect. Yet again, I can understand why legitimate townie players would bring up this possibility due to the scenario mentioned. We would never know who's abusing this exploit and who isn't.
I guess its fair to say, I have certain players marked, but nothing is concrete yet.
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I considered doing what aeres did myself, I interpreted DCs now infamous post as a soft claim to body guard. and I briefly thought about saying "mods lied" because there was so much suspicion after orgolove died. Right now I'm going to put a placeholder vote on youngminii, I only just got through the last 10 pages or so and I want to go over everything in depth before I finalize my decision but youngminii has been really aggressive and eager to start a bandwagon against aeres when most likely aeres just did something he thought would help the town and it backfired.
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Alright, this game is giving me a headache.
To everyone who passes by, please read this post. It's the best I can do to contribute.
Events
- DrH failed to prove himself, not the most horrible thing that could happen but pretty bad.
- Unless he pokes someone, and THAT someone is uninfected AND gets a message that he has been poked by Dr.H we cannot confirm that he's blue.
If mr.sticky is contaminating people, then we're not going to be able to figure out if dr.H is blue or not. But if he can just "check" blues for contamination, then we can assume that he is (since, supposedly, Mafia already knows who is infected and who is not).
Does everyone agree to this so far? Does anyone have a better idea of outing Dr.H?
The only hole in this, is that if sticky infects, and that person just gets a message of "hi you've been poked" and we all think it's ok when in fact that person is infected (and was not infected before hand).
Do people even know if they're infected?
- Aeres lied his butt off, and caused a lot of chaos. I don't really care if it was a bad play or not, since it didn't help the town at all. Sure, someone else claimed bodyguard, but it's Insane mafia, you can't do something like that and then argue that you were trying to draw hits. And you can't guarantee that by PMing someone you trust because there are no PMs. So don't screw this game over from day1 one like that. You might be a townie with a heart of gold, but I'll probably vote for you today. I don't want shit-storms like this happening again, we're gonna hit 100 pages in day 2 ffs.
Solution
I was thinking about this last night when I went to sleep.
What does the town have, as a weapon, to fight the mafia? No PMs, No circle of trust, no clues. Then what?
Basically, all we have is numbers, in my opinion. We can do a calculated sweep if enough people stop spamming, WIFOM, ifs, buts, maybes, etc. All we have to do is say what we think (like Ace did, regarding aeres) and see what comes out of it.
If we don't try to get some REASON in here, we're dead. It's as easy as that.
I know a lot of you will not care and keep causing chaos, but it's really NOT helping the town. We know of some blue roles (even though we can't confirm them), maybe some others will come up as well (no, I'm not asking people to role-claim). But we can be sure of one thing:
Not everyone is going to lie.
So if we base our decisions on majorities rather than on what ONE person said, we could get something going.
I hope this is understood, please feel free to ask me to explain whatever parts of this post.
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I think we should lynch that Glasse guy, he's been acting all funky and making me mad with useless posts.
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On November 01 2010 19:58 Glasse wrote:
I think we should lynch that Glasse guy, he's been acting all funky and making me mad with useless posts.
Wow, please don't kill me 
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i think you're village idiot
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On November 01 2010 20:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i think you're village idiot
I think you're mean
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or perhaps some role that benefits from being lynched in some way
earlier in the thread during your "campaign" for mayor you seemed very comfortable with idea of the town lynching you while being very adverse to the possibility that you might be killed at night
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regarding drh situation.
1. doch is a red and hes been playing us the whole time and now has town by the balls.
2. doch is a blue and due to his terrible misleading promises and false claims of being able to confirm his role/alignment he has basically handed the mafia the ability to have a fucking field day on the town causing panic and distrust to cloud everyones views. mafia has town by the balls.
can you see maybe why im a little mad at the situation doch?
regarding aeres
he made a shitty move and it looks extremely scummy whether hes a red or just an inexperienced player that made a mistake i have no idea. so far the best anyone has to go on and everyone seems ok with that. maybe a little too ok. keep an eye on it.
regarding youngminii
this was doch number 1 suspect 75% of the game so much that he had made him his first lynch as mayor. right out the gate doch is gunning to take him out. then what happens? youngminii dodges the lynch ? now for some reason doch isnt even thinking twice about youngminii? did i miss something? Was he pardoned or something? Im wondering what your stance is on youngmainii currently, doch?. the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy.
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On November 01 2010 20:18 Coagulation wrote:
regarding drh situation.
1. doch is a red and hes been playing us the whole time and now has town by the balls.
2. doch is a blue and due to his terrible misleading promises and false claims of being able to confirm his role/alignment he has basically handed the mafia the ability to have a fucking field day on the town causing panic and distrust to cloud everyones views. mafia has town by the balls.
can you see maybe why im a little mad at the situation doch?
regarding aeres
he made a shitty move and it looks extremely scummy whether hes a red or just an inexperienced player that made a mistake i have no idea. so far the best anyone has to go on and everyone seems ok with that. maybe a little too ok. keep an eye on it.
regarding youngminii
this was doch number 1 suspect 75% of the game so much that he had made him his first lynch as mayor. right out the gate doch is gunning to take him out. then what happens? youngminii dodges the lynch ? now for some reason doch isnt even thinking twice about youngminii? did i miss something? Was he pardoned or something? Im wondering what your stance is on youngmainii currently, doch?. the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy.
I have my suspicions about youngminii for sure. My main concern is that he is a traitor role that is originally town but when lynched becomes mafia (I've read about roles like this on mafiascum wiki and it can only be pure speculation). He wasn't my number 1 suspect 75% of the game. I chose SiNiquity over him because I was less convinced about SiN's vote but his martyrdom post after finding out he was my #1 choice made me change my mind and switch the two.
My plan at that point was to lynch the scummiest inactive and not to lynch the scummiest active player.
However, I feel Aeres it the best choice for now. You seem to agree.
My promises aren't misleading and I never made any false claims. I explained this to you and pandain a lot of times in a lot of posts in the thread before and for the sake of regurgitating the same arguments i urge you (and everyone) to carefully read my exchanges with Pandain over the course of the last 10 or so pages.
I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again. I have the power to confirm my role to another player. Obviously there is the possibility that this role can be disrupted by other roles or that the person who I confirm to could lie about it. Both are possible. There is also a possibility my role is insane in some way but there is nothing in my role PM to make me believe that and Artanis alluded to the fact that if a role was indeed deceptive in some way that there would be some sort of clue within the role description itself.
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ok lets assume that whatever happend before keeps happening.
how are we going to confirm you?
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if I'm roleblocked every night then you'd have to trust me which is as good as anything other mayoral candidates offered and I'd be soaking up whatever roleblock power it was. we can only see what happens.
a DT could investigate me as well if that would add any security to anyones mind. there is not necessarily a godfather in this game and I'd be suspicious of players operating under the assumption hat the godfather exists particularly in a game where the godfather would have to make up a role for himself.
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EPT
