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On November 01 2010 12:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:59 Pandain wrote:On November 01 2010 11:58 Misder wrote:
Well, we now know almost certainly that DH is vulnerable. Now the question is whether or not protecting him is the right thing, as again, there is speculation on whether or not hes mafia or not. Right now, I'm pretty torn. People are right on how there really is no way to gaurantee that DH will have an opportunity to confirm himself. Then again, he's making good analysis and making everything up is pretty hard to do... unless he got his mafia buddies to help. Maybe (speculation again...) he made up the role, and he and his mafia made it based on Bill Murray on purpose to make it sound believable. It's really stretched, but a possibility. Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
I wonder if mafia knew that annul was a bodygaurd. It seems so out of there. Why would mafia try to go for annul in the first place? It's not like he made any amazingly good posts that would screw up mafia. actually he hasn't made any good analysis, if you note all he's done is say "they could be this, but then again they could be that." lol what a weak brush off of my analysis posts
your right, you put effort into it.
He hasn't made any real conclusions, better gets across what I'm trying to say.
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Alright, I think just a series of reasonable questions will help express my point. Actually, sometimes I can't express an argument in question form so :/
On November 01 2010 12:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Doesn't really mean anything. If the insanity thing was such a big deal people could have switched bandwagons. The problem is the insanity thing applies to everyone and it isn't a point against me, it's just a part of this game that must be considered.
1.There were only two hours left
2. A major factor is that no one can even say if you actually used your role. The person who you claimed to have poked says he received no such thing. Now you defend yourself by saying you could've been roleblocked, or he could've been bussed. The first point is okay, but negated for reasons later expressed below. The second point is just illogical. It is more logical to assume you are mafia than that jcarl just happened to get bussed.
Everything adds up Pandain.
How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect? Well we could start with the intial concern from infinitestory that my poke transfers murrayitis to a person. Perhaps the poke doesn't confirm itself to the other player but does tell me if they have murrayitis. Perhaps my poke only has a certain chance of going through. There are many possibilities here Pandain, am I really supposed to believe you couldn't think of 1?
Point is it didn't even happen
Yeah, it is. That is the importance of my role as I understand it and as it is described in my role PM. What else do I have to go off of? Would you like me to tell you the importance of my role in an insane variation which I have no way of predicting or knowing?
Exactly! So why are you running if your role has a high chance of being unimportant. You claim its to soak up POTENTIAL roleblockers, but any townie could run and do just that.
You're attacking me for defending him. Let me call it a chainsaw defense, which is even worse. What theory doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that jcarls could have lied? You're not even considering that? In order to bring up the possibility that he might not be telling the truth I have to also accuse him of being mafia? Wow dude I never thought you would make such awful points.
Yes, it doesn't make sense for jcarl to lie. You yourself think he hasn't, and yet you critizice me for defending just that. I have considered it, but consider it highly more likely you are just scum.
My poke didn't go through to him and you all want to know why. So I'm telling you all the ways this could be possible and jcarls telling a lie is one of these things. It's a possibility among many that I have offered and it is the one I am pursuing the least and even calling the least likely. Just drop it. I never accused jcarls and your clown-ass arguments aren't coming anywhere close to making it look like I did.'
Why did you lie to us if you knew this could happen.
Why did you continue to claim you could be 100% confirmed
Why would wasting a potential roleblocker's use on one night outweigh having an unconfirmed mayor who's lied.
I didn't lie to get elected. I had no reason to distrust the mods and never truly considered the possibility that my role was insane when I was talking about 100% confirmation. I intentionally withheld information because I didn't want the mafia to consider the possiblity that I would be soaking up roleblocks they might have. This is a "lie" designed to benefit town.
You start with "I didn't lie to get elected" and end with "this is a lie designed to benefit town."
You claimed you would be 100% confirmed, now you claim you knew this would not happen.
I did ditch the 100% thing. I consistently recognized the possibility that I would be insane and offered checks against it to the town.
see the quote
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On November 01 2010 12:17 youngminii wrote:
Sure that's important. The arguments being put forward (mainly by Pandain) are not important. They are useless, misguided and nothing will be brought up out of them. The only thing they might be able to do is convince some people to vote for DrH without any conclusive evidence.
Focus on Aeres. In case you don't know, LAL = Lynch All Liars.
Rather than give empty statements why not back it up?
And fyi, you don't think Dr. H has lied?
You should reread my posts then.
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On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity.Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And againShow nested quote +On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again.
Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth?how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
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On November 01 2010 12:45 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:36 infinitestory wrote:On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote:
His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x
DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases)
Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it. I'm sorry, but I refuse to simply ignore the alignment of our mayor. I am in no way convinced he is a townie, even if you are. Knowing our mayor has an extra vote still, even if he doesn't have night protection anymore, he is still a power player that deserves additional attention. That's not the point. There's no way of finding out whether or not our Mayor is a blue or a red as of now. The arguments that Pandain is putting up are ridiculous and stretched way too far, if you honestly keep up with your persistent following of this idiocy (I'm talking about his arguments, not Pandain himself) then I'm going to have to label you as scum following a blind argument aimed at taking down a blue mayor.
How 'bout instead of saying my arguments are ridic and that's it, you actually say why. Cause right now I can just look above, see "Aeres, kgo" and find an example of just one of many blind arguments you yourself have been making. And technically you can never find out someone's alignment FOR SURE until they are dead. That's not a counter argument to mine.
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Alright, basically Doc here's the thing
You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important.
But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock.
You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor.
But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens.
With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while.
That is why I am voting you
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ahh wtf
ignore that, that's really all wifom.
+ Show Spoiler +*not giving you a chance to wave aside everything*
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On November 01 2010 12:57 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote:
But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens.
With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
This is a good point Pandain, I don't think Mafia would have known I would be poked. I had no idea myself that Dr.H even noticed I was posting (he did call me inactive at the beginning of the game after all =P). This leads me to believe that you were indeed role-blocked Dr.H
This is where we are at. It is Dr. H's word, and his word alone. We have no idea if there is a roleblocker, or if he was actually roleblocked if the former is true.
But when you realize Dr. H knew he could be roleblocked, leaving town unsure of his alignment, yet runs on a campaign of "I'm going to be confirmed!", that is anti town.
And then he brings up more far fetched things such as indeed that mafia just happened to bus you. A
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On November 01 2010 12:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote:Alright, basically Doc here's the thing You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important. No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down. You said you, like me, could confirm myself 100%. and this is after you claim to have disregarded the "100%" thing. On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town. But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock. You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor. The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much.Except for the fact that now you are unconfirmed.But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens. I'm still claiming that by the way. *yawn* tell me when it does With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people. Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous.Yes it is far fetched. Do you honestly think mafia would know you would check Jcarl? I can't really comment on whether you made it up, or are GF, as there are numerous options all viable.You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while. Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude. You campaigned on the basis you would be confirmed. Just bringing up the fact someone could lie(which is doubtful anyway) does not make you innocent That is why I am voting youToo bad your vote didn't even go through lol 
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On November 01 2010 13:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:14 Pandain wrote:On November 01 2010 12:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote:Alright, basically Doc here's the thing You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important. No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down. You said you, like me, could confirm myself 100%. and this is after you claim to have disregarded the "100%" thing. On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town. Not that I'm referring to your post which is in referral to my previous claim of 100% confirmation which I stick by circumstantially (as a 100% confirmation when my night action is not interfered with). Your reffering to both, and if you note the words "can" and "being" its obviously reffering to both mine and yours. But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock. You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor. The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much.Except for the fact that now you are unconfirmed.What? Like I said. The mafia has to choose what is worse. Having me confirm or wasting their roleblock (if they have one. Great, letting mafia decide everything. A lie won't really benefit town if it has a huge draw back :/But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens. I'm still claiming that by the way. *yawn* tell me when it does Useless comment. I'll tell everyone obviously. point is most likely it's not going to happen anytime soon, and I highly doubt it will ever With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people. Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous.Yes it is far fetched. Do you honestly think mafia would know you would check Jcarl? I can't really comment on whether you made it up, or are GF, as there are numerous options all viable.Why assume busdriver is a mafia role? Why assum ethere is no town aligned commuter/hider role? If I was GF I would have had to made up the Sticky role as Artanis confirmed GF would have to do in the case that the role of GF existed. Also you are assuming there is a godfather which may not be the case. Why are you assuming Godfather exists? You're saying I either made up my role or I am the GF when both cases mean the same thing. That I made my role up. Why, why why. If there is a bus driver who is town, they'll claim so. Othwerwise, it's pretty safe to assume any one will be mafia. And what do you mean assume there is no commuter/hider role. Jcarl isn't, or else he would've said so. Point is there are many things that could happen if you are mafia which explain this situation. There is really only one for you: You were roleblocked, or are lying. And character evidence doesn't exactly help you. You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while. Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude. You campaigned on the basis you would be confirmed. Just bringing up the fact someone could lie(which is doubtful anyway) does not make you innocent Why is it doubtful? It's doubtful that the person I confirmed to would lie but it's not doubtful that I would lie? Do you think if I confirmed to a mafia they would tell the town that I confirmed to them? Come on. you yourself believed, and still believe Jcarl is not. However, due to your way of winning the election I am highly suscipcious of you. That is why I am voting youToo bad your vote didn't even go through lol
so many colors.............
also note how his argument is devolving. You cannot ignore this people, do not jump on a bandwagon to aeres.
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On November 01 2010 13:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:31 Pandain wrote:On November 01 2010 13:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 13:14 Pandain wrote:On November 01 2010 12:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote:Alright, basically Doc here's the thing You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important. No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down. You said you, like me, could confirm myself 100%. and this is after you claim to have disregarded the "100%" thing. On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town. Not that I'm referring to your post which is in referral to my previous claim of 100% confirmation which I stick by circumstantially (as a 100% confirmation when my night action is not interfered with). Your reffering to both, and if you note the words "can" and "being" its obviously reffering to both mine and yours. But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock. You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor. The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much.Except for the fact that now you are unconfirmed.What? Like I said. The mafia has to choose what is worse. Having me confirm or wasting their roleblock (if they have one. Great, letting mafia decide everything. A lie won't really benefit town if it has a huge draw back :/But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens. I'm still claiming that by the way. *yawn* tell me when it does Useless comment. I'll tell everyone obviously. point is most likely it's not going to happen anytime soon, and I highly doubt it will ever With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people. Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous.Yes it is far fetched. Do you honestly think mafia would know you would check Jcarl? I can't really comment on whether you made it up, or are GF, as there are numerous options all viable.Why assume busdriver is a mafia role? Why assum ethere is no town aligned commuter/hider role? If I was GF I would have had to made up the Sticky role as Artanis confirmed GF would have to do in the case that the role of GF existed. Also you are assuming there is a godfather which may not be the case. Why are you assuming Godfather exists? You're saying I either made up my role or I am the GF when both cases mean the same thing. That I made my role up. Why, why why. If there is a bus driver who is town, they'll claim so. Othwerwise, it's pretty safe to assume any one will be mafia. And what do you mean assume there is no commuter/hider role. Jcarl isn't, or else he would've said so. Point is there are many things that could happen if you are mafia which explain this situation. There is really only one for you: You were roleblocked, or are lying. And character evidence doesn't exactly help you. You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while. Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude. You campaigned on the basis you would be confirmed. Just bringing up the fact someone could lie(which is doubtful anyway) does not make you innocent Why is it doubtful? It's doubtful that the person I confirmed to would lie but it's not doubtful that I would lie? Do you think if I confirmed to a mafia they would tell the town that I confirmed to them? Come on. you yourself believed, and still believe Jcarl is not. However, due to your way of winning the election I am highly suscipcious of you. That is why I am voting youToo bad your vote didn't even go through lol so many colors............. also note how his argument is devolving. You cannot ignore this people, do not jump on a bandwagon to aeres. devolving? how so? I feel I'm being pretty consistent.
Basically disagreeing what a sentence clearly says, disagreeing with yourself "Even though I think jcarl is town, and that he is telling the truth, i think he lied", so forth
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w/e I'm going to sleep. When I wake up and after school I'll see what you've said. If you're really town, hopefully you'll be able to convicne me. but right now I doubt it...
Just don't bandwagon aeres while I'm gone, mmkay?
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Don't like this voting on aeres, in fact imo the most suscipcious thing he's done so far is say "alright, I should die." In many of my games I often fake roleclaim if it will serve a purpose(-.- dr. h). However it was both premature and again, whats with someone saying they should be lynched.
I'll be doing an analysis of Dr. H tonight. However, he has like 400 posts so don't expect it anytime soon.
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On November 02 2010 07:13 Coagulation wrote:
i get warned daily.
I've never been warned
User was warned for this post
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On November 02 2010 06:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
##Unvote Aeres
##Vote InfiniteStory
On November 02 2010 07:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
##Unvote InfiniteStory
##Vote DoctorHelvetica
wtf....
explain?
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On November 02 2010 07:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 07:40 LunarDestiny wrote:Look over day 2 post again. 3 people are infected... The logical reason is mafia targeted someone and that person came in contact with 2 others. I question who that person could be. On October 29 2010 10:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 29 2010 10:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Does the person with murrayitis know they have murrayitis? With the exception of any doctor role, players will not be informed if they have murrayitis. As of now, no one claims to have the disease so I assume that no doctor has the disease. If DrH is telling the truth about his poking ability and his doctor role. He couldn't have the disease and the disease never transferred to another person. Then who the mafia targeted with the disease and who the disease spread to. We have to figure this out soon or the game will end at an exponential rate. My guess is that it's someone who stood out in day1 excluding DrH. The disease wasn't put on me. I'm completely immune to M-Rus.
how do you know again?
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On November 02 2010 08:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'd like to ask Pandain a question. You said you would/could confirm yourself as townie even if you weren't mayor. You criticize me because i failed to do so. You also haven't confirmed yourself at all something that was part of your campaign promise. It strikes me as a tad bit hypocritical.
Remember it's indirect, there's no real way to confirm my role. But come by day 2,3, I'll probably have enough to basically be confirmed.
Interesting post btw, I'll definitely consider it in my analysis.
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happy birthday fishball
Also, dr. H, why must you post so very very much
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Hi beneather. Part 1 of dr. h analysis coming up shortly
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oh wtf, im almost at 2000?
screw the part1/2/3/4/5 crud. I'm a do a full blown analysis.
Don't expect me to post for a while :p
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16310
612
274
253
251
EPT
