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On October 30 2010 10:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 10:06 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote:
I'm voting for Bumatlarge. Honestly I'm not very impressed by how any of the other candidates have been conducting themselves.
Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him. I know he hasn't posted in like 30 minutes (ie. 45 pages omfg), but we shouldn't forget about his candidacy and bandwagon onto Doc.H, and certainly not Pandain.
Again, Bum has my vote. You can vote for anybody for all I care, But On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote:
Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him.
Experience I don't deny, but seriously? At least quote something you think that is "honest" and "helpful". How do you know the other candidates are not "honest? are not "helpful"? Some of these posts from certain players, regarding why or why not they vote for certain players are just mind boggling. infinitestory caught another one below. On October 30 2010 09:28 infinitestory wrote:On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote:
so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end! Your logic for electing Pandain is pretty flimsy. We want a mayor who: 1) Is a good analyzer and an experienced town player 2) Can be scrutinized or somehow confirmed as a townie. 3) Has a role that requires protection Now, ideally we get a mayor who is strongly all three (and ends up being townie under scrutiny). DrH, according to his posts, satisfies 2 and 3, especially 2, and I feel like he can carry out 1 as well. Fishball claims to satisfy 3, but his circle hasn't materialized, which makes me suspect him. Last in my book is Pandain, who claims SOFTLY to satisfy all 3. Emphasis on softly, because he only said he had a "valuable blue role" and could give "indirect confirmation." No real plan for action, unlike the other two candidates, as far as I saw. On top of that, you claim that DrH's bandwagon is suspect, but Pandain had an even larger bandwagon before DrH... why does that not trigger your red flag? It feels almost like you're fabricating reasons to put Pandain first and everyone else last. Odd, to say the least. I want to hear a bit more explanation on these points, NB. When reading through the past 10-20 pages, there are quite a few posts like these out there. I suggest any decent minded town aligned players to pay attention to these people. to clarify you are calling out infinitestories post as a good one amongst what is largely noise yes? if you're saying it's a bad post then -_-
I said:
infinitestory caught another one below
Keyword highlighted.
Of course I'm saying his post is a good one.
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On October 30 2010 10:14 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Can't trust Pandain because of the massive bandwagon for him, it just sort of materialized which is a bad sign
Can't trust Fishball because his "circle" refuses to come forward making his statement seem false
Can't trust Bumatlarge because of his fast entry and even faster withdrawal once Fishball entered the race
I don't have a reason to distrust Doc H that is worse than the reasons I distrust the other candidates. Doc gets my vote for now.
I'm not going to speak for the other candidates you quoted, but this statement is entirely false.
his "circle" refuses to come forward
People need to stop making statements like this, as it just misleads others. Have I said the others refuse to come out? Have I refuse to let them come out? Did you not read any of my "latest" posts?
Analysis and everything else aside, I'm going to list these facts for now, just raw facts.
- Besides myself, only one other member have posted today.
- The majority of them have not even posted in the thread yet.
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On October 30 2010 10:50 Pandain wrote:
but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers".
I know it's not directed at me, but I'm just quoting your post since you're the latest one to say something similar.
Seems like a lot of people are getting this impression of the circle, which I've explained quite a few times, that's not exactly what I will make it to be. With DT checks viable to the Mayor, I even offered to kill myself and release as much information to the public to prove it. (Seeing that many other information have sunk into the vast ocean of posts, this is not surprising)
It's also quite amusing, most of the people that argue against the "crazy secrecy of the circle", or just me in general "not being transparent" etc., never brings up these posts I've said.
Keep in mind I was the first one to come up with such a claim.
Fake or not, that's not the point and is for another debate, but I AM being transparent here.
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On October 30 2010 10:54 NB wrote:
while obama Dr.h and Mc.cain panda are debating.... fishy hillary is standing out and watch :>
What the fuck? Hillary?
I'm
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On October 30 2010 11:14 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 11:06 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 10:50 Pandain wrote:
but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers".
I know it's not directed at me, but I'm just quoting your post since you're the latest one to say something similar. Seems like a lot of people are getting this impression of the circle, which I've explained quite a few times, that's not exactly what I will make it to be. With DT checks viable to the Mayor, I even offered to kill myself and release as much information to the public to prove it. (Seeing that many other information have sunk into the vast ocean of posts, this is not surprising) It's also quite amusing, most of the people that argue against the "crazy secrecy of the circle", or just me in general "not being transparent" etc., never brings up these posts I've said. Keep in mind I was the first one to come up with such a claim. Fake or not, that's not the point and is for another debate, but I AM being transparent here. Here's what you said: Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote:
If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment. While that's great, we don't know the specifics of "a few cycles." We also don't know how much we can afford to even have this secret circle run for 2-3 rounds if it's being manipulated by: A. an experienced player like yourself B. One with a massive amount of starting information if you were mafia AND C. A mafia member. Also, I don't trust this in the future crap. If things happen like they did in either Mafia XXXI or Haunted Mafia, town quickly forgets about current accusations and bandwagons a lot >_<. Therefore, you could simply being saying this without the intention of doing it at all knowing that mafia will soon wreak havoc (especially if you were mafia and got into the mayor position and are in the secret circle). Finally, we don't know whether or not you would release ALL the information. In fact, there's no way of knowing that. You could maybe release 1/2 your pms, or 1/3 of your pms and we wouldn't be able to tell. I don't even trust that ploy despite you trying to be a martyr to curb our suspicions of you. =/
This is the type of response I appreciate.
Nothing is set. Basically what I'm trying to say is, I don't know how the game would progress. Few cycles, could be as few as one, as much as the entire duration of the game. It's not my call, but the Towns to decide if they need to kill me or not and when to kill me. This is not martyrdom, but as one of the few ways, as a last resort to prove myself and the information I provide, if necessary.
Yes, town has a tendency to be confused and be distracted based on previous games, but since you brought this up, you can very well keep this on your top priority list and constantly remind the town of this option.
As for releasing information, I specially never used the term "all information". You can check my posts in this thread. Let's assume a scenario. We have a confirmed DT/Medic or the sort in the group. I'm about to get lynched to prove my other claims, whatever it may be. Would it be wise to release who in the group has what role to the public now? The answer is most likely no. It really depends on the situation at that time, and this would be my judgment call. But why does this matters anyways? If I only released half of the information I've got, died and was revealed as a Townie, then my motives can only be good.
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On October 30 2010 11:25 Nemesis wrote:And the debates continue!  Politics, I dislike it  Just some general points I'd like to make: To DrH: If you are mafia and your role is similar to what you say it is, it could just be instead of you being able to "confirm your role as a townie" to other people it could be "fake your role as a townie" to other people. You don't need to out other mafias to do that. I am just highly skeptical of voting for someone because of their supposed role. To fishball: Get someone from your circle to confirm that your circle really exist, or in fact, tell all of them to come out(not their role just the fact that they are in the circle) if at all possible.
I can definitely tell one of them to confirm the existence of the circle. In fact, the only "active" member already offered to do so, but I told him not yet.
I have yet to see any others come online tonight, and like said before, some of them haven't even posted in the god damn thread yet. Which makes sense...
On October 30 2010 11:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also, it'd be great if we could get a few more people on the replacement list. If you're following the game and want to be on it, please PM me.
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On October 30 2010 11:46 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 11:28 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 11:14 ghrur wrote:On October 30 2010 11:06 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 10:50 Pandain wrote:
but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers".
I know it's not directed at me, but I'm just quoting your post since you're the latest one to say something similar. Seems like a lot of people are getting this impression of the circle, which I've explained quite a few times, that's not exactly what I will make it to be. With DT checks viable to the Mayor, I even offered to kill myself and release as much information to the public to prove it. (Seeing that many other information have sunk into the vast ocean of posts, this is not surprising) It's also quite amusing, most of the people that argue against the "crazy secrecy of the circle", or just me in general "not being transparent" etc., never brings up these posts I've said. Keep in mind I was the first one to come up with such a claim. Fake or not, that's not the point and is for another debate, but I AM being transparent here. Here's what you said: On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote:
If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment. While that's great, we don't know the specifics of "a few cycles." We also don't know how much we can afford to even have this secret circle run for 2-3 rounds if it's being manipulated by: A. an experienced player like yourself B. One with a massive amount of starting information if you were mafia AND C. A mafia member. Also, I don't trust this in the future crap. If things happen like they did in either Mafia XXXI or Haunted Mafia, town quickly forgets about current accusations and bandwagons a lot >_<. Therefore, you could simply being saying this without the intention of doing it at all knowing that mafia will soon wreak havoc (especially if you were mafia and got into the mayor position and are in the secret circle). Finally, we don't know whether or not you would release ALL the information. In fact, there's no way of knowing that. You could maybe release 1/2 your pms, or 1/3 of your pms and we wouldn't be able to tell. I don't even trust that ploy despite you trying to be a martyr to curb our suspicions of you. =/ This is the type of response I appreciate. Nothing is set. Basically what I'm trying to say is, I don't know how the game would progress. Few cycles, could be as few as one, as much as the entire duration of the game. It's not my call, but the Towns to decide if they need to kill me or not and when to kill me. This is not martyrdom, but as one of the few ways, as a last resort to prove myself and the information I provide, if necessary. Yes, town has a tendency to be confused and be distracted based on previous games, but since you brought this up, you can very well keep this on your top priority list and constantly remind the town of this option. As for releasing information, I specially never used the term "all information". You can check my posts in this thread. Let's assume a scenario. We have a confirmed DT/Medic or the sort in the group. I'm about to get lynched to prove my other claims, whatever it may be. Would it be wise to release who in the group has what role to the public now? The answer is most likely no. It really depends on the situation at that time, and this would be my judgment call. But why does this matters anyways? If I only released half of the information I've got, died and was revealed as a Townie, then my motives can only be good. But see, that's just it. We don't know when to kill you because we don't know how much information you have. You wouldn't want to kill yourself if you were mafia. We don't know how much info you would give us... at all. Nor if it'd be real or fake. Idk, I just think you'd be much better off as a normal role. This way, if you were town, you'd reveal your information anyway and can be medic protected. If you were mafia, we'd still have a ton of information to analyze and a lot less chance of being heavily manipulated by your role.
I've pretty much answer that in the reply you quoted. It is totally up to the consensus of Town.
But one thing I think you might be misunderstanding. I never said I'm only releasing information only when I die. I'll always share as much as I can, when I can, hence being "transparent". People can ask me questions, and I'll do my best to answer them. This was something I've said I would do from the very beginning. If you want me to elaborate even more on this in detail, I can, but hopefully you get what I'm saying.
It's Friday night and close to Halloween... I'm tired and I want to go out for booze
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To be honest, I do think all this debating is getting quite stupid and going in circles.
Most of my replies have been mentioned before and it's just repeat and repeat.
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On October 30 2010 12:08 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 12:05 Fishball wrote:
To be honest, I do think all this debating is getting quite stupid and going in circles.
Most of my replies have been mentioned before and it's just repeat and repeat.
You never really answered this for me sufficently. Can you? Show nested quote +Here's the thing, I don't see why you have to be mayor for this circle if you have medic protection. I've already said I think the circle is a very good thing to have and we should use it to our advantage, but focusing around that will be very hard since there's a chance there might not be any mafia at all! What, are we going to check all 6 people? That's going to take way too long. I'm just confused about how you would go about that, if you could clarify.
It is possible that I've missed questions directed to me among all these posts. I was just saying that in general.
Anyways, the medic/mayor part I've answered before; In fact, multiple times. Are you seriously questioning this again?
As for the circle itself, since your brought it up now, I can see how you or others would see it this way. I never intended to have the Town to revolve around the circle and the circle alone. Everyone should be aware of the circle, but not focus on it. Anything that could be advantageous to the town should be given attention to.
If I'm Mayor, my goals are simple with the circle.
- Try to weed out any Mafia from within, if any. If there isn't any, its actually a good thing.
- Figure out what roles we have in the circle, discuss with them, and decide what to do with their actions if any.
- Share as much suitable information I can with the rest of the Town.
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On October 30 2010 12:16 Glasse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 12:13 NB wrote:
so we have 3 main candidates: Panda, dish, doctor... Who of you will promise to protect me from scums? :3 I will protect you as i can't be killed during the game!. I will always be there for you! Vote for me!
First Hillary, now dish.
You're really pushing it.
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Wrong quote ;/
Meant to quote NB.
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Even if I don't get the Mayor at the end, I still might reveal my role at that point, but this requires more consideration.
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On October 30 2010 14:25 kingjames01 wrote:
Although he seems sincere, it is also a possibility that DrH does not realize he's anti-town.
Consider for a moment:
An Insane Cop does not know that his actions are opposite to what he expects.
This is an Insane Mafia game.
Perhaps there are actually a lot of Insane roles in this game.
As I've said before, a truly Insane game must be, by definition, unpredictable. What I mean to say is, we, as players, need to stop relying on what we KNOW from the past and start playing based on the set of rules that we infer from this game ONLY.
It would not be fair for the mods to change the rules mid-game, but it is completely in their power to take advantage of our preconceptions on what a Mafia game is. Remember, this is INSANE MAFIA.
If I were a medic, I would protect this man.
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On October 30 2010 14:30 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:22 Fishball wrote:
Even if I don't get the Mayor at the end, I still might reveal my role at that point, but this requires more consideration.
I think you are much better off not being mayor If a red slips into power as mayor and you are truly pro town as you say you are we are gonna need someone who can organize as a backup plan. I think you would be best suited as our ace up the sleeve in case mayor gets compromised.
Well to be honest, what needs to be said has already been said by me. It would just be flat out lame if I keep nagging about it, wouldn't it  ?
Right now, I'm just reading through the thread as it progress, keeping an eye on everything. What's up with all those players not posting since the game started? They should be mod-killed by now.
I can tell you right now that my role doesn't exactly have that "ace" power like you think it would. It is very simple in fact.
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On October 31 2010 01:01 DCLXVI wrote:Fishball - I still think that you are safe enough within your circle [What? Elaborate, not a blanket statement. If you seriously bring up that Medic/Mayor question again, I'll lose it]and I would rather have you as a back up leader since we cannot be sure of the security of your circle. [I think I know what you mean, but if you compare the first sentence and this, it doesn't really make sense at all. "You're safe in the circle! But we can't trust the security of the circle!"]once a few people die in it we can scrutinize the few remaining for a mafia. [This was already briefly discussed on page 29 and 30.]I still don't understand why all of you don't want to reveal yourselves. If there is a mafia in the circle - highly likely I think - then the mafia knows all of you anyways. [Possible Mafia in the circle would means he know who are the members, but not their respective roles and abilities. Are you implying we should come out with our roles and abilities, or just simply requesting everyone in the circle to come out? If it is the former, then that would be retarded. If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here]You are just withholding information from the town for what purpose? [Withholding what information? If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above. Besides that, the only thing I'm "withholding" now is my role. What else do you want?]
My response in red.
To be honest, you're either Mafia trying to discredit me, or your reading comprehension is just bad, which baffles me.
Even though your post is longer compared to some other players, the points made (at the very least, to me) are either weak, or have been discussed before. Your post falls into this category.
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On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I think what he meant in the first two points was that he believes that your safety in the circle won't be compromised if you aren't Mayor, but we cannot fully trust the circle itself if you are Mayor. At least that's what I got out of it.
I did say "I think I know what you mean". I'm just picking on the wording he used.
On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
You are withholding more than just your role. You are withholding who the members of the circle are. We don't necessarily need to know their roles, but we need to know that the circle exists. If there is scum in the circle (which you yourself have admitted you think there probably is), then all of the Mafia already know that the circle exists, and they know who every member in the circle is. On the other hand, the town is completely left in the dark about whether or not the circle exists because nobody in it has stepped forward.
What you are essentially doing is keeping information away from the town that the Mafia probably already has.
??? So you're asking the exact same question he did, which I replied.
- "If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above."
- "If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here"
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On October 31 2010 06:14 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 06:02 Fishball wrote:On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I think what he meant in the first two points was that he believes that your safety in the circle won't be compromised if you aren't Mayor, but we cannot fully trust the circle itself if you are Mayor. At least that's what I got out of it. I did say "I think I know what you mean". I'm just picking on the wording he used. On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
You are withholding more than just your role. You are withholding who the members of the circle are. We don't necessarily need to know their roles, but we need to know that the circle exists. If there is scum in the circle (which you yourself have admitted you think there probably is), then all of the Mafia already know that the circle exists, and they know who every member in the circle is. On the other hand, the town is completely left in the dark about whether or not the circle exists because nobody in it has stepped forward.
What you are essentially doing is keeping information away from the town that the Mafia probably already has. ??? So you're asking the exact same question he did, which I replied. - "If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above." - "If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here" I have read your posts, but I still don't understand why you're hiding it from us. It would be nice if the circle members stepped forward, but at this point I want YOU to tell us who is in the circle. Give us names. Why are you keeping this information from the town when the Mafia most likely already has it?
I'm still waiting.
Do I have to announce in detail on every little update I make in my head, up to the minute?
- I've already PM'd the three "relatively" active members and ask whether they would agree to come out or not.
- The others flat out haven't posted in the thread and I rather see them mod-killed, as it hurts the game more than anything regardless of alignment.
- This is also one of the reasons why I'm not really pushing so hard for Mayor now, as if the circle falls, my role is useless and vice versa (The circle needs me). I already said I might announce my role even if I don't get Mayor, so if I do announce it, it will easily make sense.
- If I don't hear much feed back in a couple hours, it is very likely I'll just announce the list of members and my role.
This is all I'm going to say for now. I don't expect you to vote for me based on all the previous information I've provided, but if people simply can't stand waiting in the so called "darkness", then so be it.
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We've had similar roles in previous games before. Basically a role that gets an extra vote, and would show up anonymously as "elder".
To be quite bold, I don't like the band wagon you're getting. There are quite a few players that have voted for you, I consider "suspicious" in my books.
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On October 31 2010 06:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
My only defense is that the last time I was a scum mayor I specifically ordered the mafia to create a "close win" and have me win by 1 or 2 votes.
Doubtlessly there are mafia in this bandwagon though.
I wasn't actually directing that at you, it was just a comment about certain voters, but since you said "My only defense", I'll have to bite, right?
It was a close win last time, so you ordered Mafia to create a "non-close win" this time to create a diversion! It all makes sense now doesn't it  ?
Let the merry-go-round spin on!
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On October 31 2010 06:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote:
Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching? I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
I like how none of the players who voted for you are on that list
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