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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not. Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 11 2010 15:04 Nemesis wrote: This is a quote from archer from FSN. Archer had the power to make a reality marble which twists the surrounding to recreate his mind. In that reality marble, he can make any sword and as much swords as he desire hence it being called Unlimited Blade Works. It can be interpreted that "he could feel cold steel peirce his body from every direction" as having thousands of swords pierce his body. Actually this is from his younger self one. But in this game I would like to be the one in my profile picture more, lol. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote: Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got. I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
For Mafia/Vampire, I think they don't care much about who dies in the first couple of days/nights as long as it's not on their side. Townie dies mean they have less choice to make in the next cycle and if they can force townie to vote to kill the other side, then that would make them even have more profit. Oh and I don't say that Masq is surely not a killer. I just think we need to look further for other clues too before accusing him solely. But he's one of the suspects though. (Maybe I need a ghost in the first night  ). | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
Clues: During the day, people die. When people die, clues are left behind by the dastardly mafia (or monsters) that killed them. Clues may refer to a persons profile, name, and signature. They can be taken from anywhere and won't always be so obvious. Keep a sharp and open mind when looking for clues. Remember, clues often times hurt the town more than they help. Analyze but don't go overboard in trying to use clues to your advantage, you may just run yourself in circles. Mafia is a game of deception, guesswork, and manipulation before it is a game of clue analysis. Keep that in mind. That means the clue might hurt townie like us too. Now let me response to Bill Murray's post: On October 11 2010 15:39 Bill Murray wrote: This seems very forced. Maybe this, maybe that. I'm voting this guy. Fuck all the clue speculation, let's lynch Veldril over this post. I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not. On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote: LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this. If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate. If a person defend other person then those people are teammate. Veldril defend Masq Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate. Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire. If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please? | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 02:02 Flicky wrote: My general opinion on the Whole Masq thing is that he's not doing a great job of defending himself despite it only being day 1. While it's possible it's "too obvious" to some, as soon as I realised it can't have been a Jack O'Lantern framing, the more it seems that's the only lead. Seems likely to me and that a possible miss-lynch wouldn't be too much of an issue. After spending time reading rules, I do agree that miss-lynch on the first day is not a big issue. We have 61 players here, with 22 reds. That we have 39 greens/blues. Considering that mafias and vampires each can kill up to 3 people (or have to kill three people I'm not sure, might need clarification on this), we can say that on the first day plus first night, there will be up to 7 people dead. If all dead are hit at townie, then townie will have 32 player left. And worst case would be 7 of either vampire or mafia are killed (only single side), which I believe is very unlikely. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 03:09 CubEdIn wrote: Not that it's very relevant, but you couldn't get 7 kills on vampire or mafia since they know who they are and would not use their 3 kills on their own team. So tops would be 4 kills on one side and 3 kills on the other, which wouldn't be TOO bad. It would make the game fairly interesting, since all sides gain from killing the other sides, so it would still be fairly even in terms of Mafia vs Vampires, but the Townies would have the advantage. As for masq, as I said in the beginning, it may not be the smartest thing to go on with such an obvious clue, but then again what other options do we have? Really, no other clues come close to this in my opinion. If we find someone who's more likely, then I'd gladly change my vote. Oh yeah, I miscounted and forgot about that. Thanks for a reminder and correction. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 03:38 Bill Murray wrote: This is pretty damning. This is called an OMGUS. He is voting me because I have made a very good case on him, and he is pussysore about it. OMGUS = Oh My God You Suck. Veldril is standing in the grave he's digging, and it's a two plotter. One is for himself, one is for masq. Masq is mostly harmless, though, so lets get Veldril out of the way first. I'd also like to point out these PMs I received and corresponded on with aztorisk: The point of me posting this is that either two things will happen now: A) Aztorisk switches to Veldril, fulfilling his promise to me through PM. B) Aztorisk lies about what he said he would do. If A, he is helping the town. If B, he is breaking LAL, which is Lynch All Liars, and we should lynch him for not cooperating. You can accuse me as much as you like. That doesn't refute my point I made earlier about you. Oh and nice about forcing Aztorisk to vote me by publishing the PM. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 03:58 NB wrote: Talking about M or V... they will want to get rid of the most "reasonable" person who has the most "power posts" in the first night... So The ghost should be protecting the most influential person we having here. hmm, how do you type in color? only mods can do that? type (blue) message (/blue) but replacing () with [] Example: blue green red | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:00 Bill Murray wrote: my logic is more like this: you said "as mafia, i would defend someone" you said so AFTER defending someone therefore, it is possible you are mafia with them the fact you are squirming and attacking my logic, while calling me an experienced player claiming I have a hidden agenda (which I don't and it's a fucking straight out lie), is making me really really want you to be lynched. You are pretty good for a newbie. Your logic is better than mine. My logic sucks. I don't give a fuck if my logic sucks, though, you have made many fucking mistakes. You are mafia. You are either mafia or a vampire, and I'm going to get you lynched. Sorry. Hmmm, fair enough. You have your points spoken and that's fine for me. Well, maybe I jumped my conclusion that "experienced player = player familiar with logic" so if that's not true then my argument would be unsound. But since we really don't know is it true or not, we could just left it for others to decide. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:16 orgolove wrote: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ap0Ejzlf165MdENWM3p1cHNOcDlnT0o4bjNUUFdVMlE&hl=en&output=html So far we have a few people who have had several tells. These may not be conclusive, but just putting it out there: jodogohoo-"what is mafia" pretended to be noob, changed vote multiple times 1st day Masq-apart from profile matching the clue, immediately agreed with Veldril when defended aztrorisk-strongly accused shmotz, switched to masq when others started, defended glasse when his hammer profile pic was mentioned Bill Murray-happy to kill coagulation/masq, posted PMs with aztorisk (!!!) - untrustworthy? And we can see that most of the votes are against these few. Now, I don't understand the following votes: ShmotZ - 1 - KtheZ - (L-30) seRapH - 2 - NB, coagulation - (L-29) coagulation - 3 - seRapH, deconduo, jcarlsoniv - (L-28) These votes can't be explained by the newbie logic of "he voted for me, so I'm voting for him" What's interesting to note is, seraph accused coagulation, then NB and coagulation voted Seraph back. Also, I haven't seen jcarlsoniv or deconduo post in this thread, only in the voting thread. These might be from the same faction- I dunno... Deconduo has posted once. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159453¤tpage=17#327 | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:28 deconduo wrote: Twice actually, and I will be picking up a bit if I can. Ah I see, seems to miss your post. Anyway, off to sleep now since it's night here in Asia. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
I feel like now when I try to defend or propose something up, most people will come up with even more excuses to vote me. It seems I really made a grudge with Bill Murray, since he's the most vocal to get me killed. I don't really understand why you would want me to get lynched so badly. I would shift a vote off you if you have explain the reason why do you think "defending others" would mean "Red defends Red". Also, I feel that either me or Masq get lynched, it would not be a good situation for Townie or me at all. If Masq get lynched and turn out to be red, people would still suspect me and that could hurt townie since they would spend their focus on me being red and I would still get fried. If Masq turn out to be green, I don't think some people will let me go free without discrediting me, therefore I could not make impact in the future day/night. However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over. It may seems cowardice but I will have to vote for Masq to save myself. I just wish that Masq indeed turns out to be green. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 20:40 Coagulation wrote: in regards to the creeper and gravedigger roles.. are people aware that they are this role or do they just think they are zombies? From the description, they should not realize whether they are creeper/gravedigger or not. For example, if someone receive role zombie from the Mod, it could him being Zombie, Gravedigger or Creeper. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 23:24 jcarlsoniv wrote: I am not condemning Veldril only because he defended Masq. That was what led into it. His actions afterwards are what convinced me that he should be lynched. He started "chainsaw defending", pointing fingers elsewhere, but not aggressively. He was doing it rather passively, trying to just slip out of view and get the attention somewhere else. When someone created an argument, he conceded very very easily, which I see as an attempt to make fewer enemies. His posts made it seem like he was trying to prove innocence, which is not necessarily something a townie would feel the need to do as much. I find it odd with your observation here. When I attack BM's argument back then, I attacked him quite aggressively to make his logic fall apart. Every time I try to defend my position, he respond very aggressively so I have to try other methods to back my argument, which is what make he thinks that by protecting Masq is equal to we teaming up and be on the same team. He still doesn't response me and when orglove try to press him at this point, he also react aggressively. Also, if most people start accusing you, wouldn't you want to prove your innocence. Since I don't have proof and I don't want to point finger randomly (only to BM now). That's why I stated in the previous post, every attempt of me defending myself looks like I make a bad post as a red, and every aggressive move toward me is a good post or good observation for some people. Doesn't it weird? Final note, please look at where I come from. You have to consider cultural and personality impact on making arguments too, because sometimes Asian countries have different way to answer. In Thailand, it is most of the time considered polite to be passive when someone make an argument against you. We also consider our false directly in logical argument so we would not misjudge or build a better argument. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 13 2010 00:56 youngminii wrote: Your argument consists of the following: "People already think I'm mafia so no matter what I say/argue, people will think I'm saying that because I'm mafia". We are not idiots, there are people here that have been playing mafia for years. If you actually posted something of value as your defense, we may be swayed in our decision to lynch you. Instead, you act like you've already given up and that you have no defense. I'm sure everyone has a friend that never apologizes and instead says "well what do you want me to do, I can't do anything about it" instead of a simple "sorry". This is what you are doing and as such, I want everyone to vote for and lynch you. If you aren't scum then at least we've made an example of you as WHAT NOT TO DO. Noted that I have said "some people" or "most people", I don't include all of you. What I'm thinking is that there are people who try to sway new people on this situation. My argument would be "There are people who try to discredit me, therefore it will be hard for me to come up with an argument". When I try to argue back, for example against BM, he react aggressively and from that point, I feel some people start to criticize my argument make against him that I was trying to point finger away. When I try to be more passive, some people point out that I did it because I want to prove innocence that townie would not do. Not everyone do this, but there are some that do. I am pretty sure they are somehow under influence of others, directly or indirectly. Yes, I make a point that is more passive compare to others many times. That's due to my personality outside of the game. If it's bad, then at least I know now that it's not a good thing to do in the future. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 13 2010 03:19 Bill Murray wrote: 1) you are both mafia "i wish he was green!" 2) you are mafia, he is not on your team "i wish he was green" would go to "i hope he's green" 3) you are green, you don't know what he is "i hope he's fucking green" or "i'm wishing" not "i wish" you saying "i wish he's green" doesn't feel right to me unless you are mafia Umm, please look at my location... English is not my first language, so finding faults in my wording or grammar is a little bit illogical. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 13 2010 03:28 Bill Murray wrote: your wording and grammar are better than most peoples' from here, therefore i disagree But it's still not perfect as far as I know, I still feel my grammar suck a lot... But that's unrelated to game. Well, I like what you post. Getting fried in the first game is not a bad experience though, since I could learn something from it. No need to feel bad if you believe you do the right thing for the town. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
If you guys are so worried about me, role check me if you want. You can even plant a bogeyman to spy whether someone visit me or not to. However, I think that some people are now 100% sure of my role right now. Remember that town wants to reduce the number of vampire and mafia gradually and have their number similar to each other. Moreover, Mafia now would want to use town vote to kill me more than dirty their own hands. Lynching me now would only help strengthen Mafia. All in all, reserve your judgment until day 2. There's going to be a lot of killing this night. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 13 2010 21:38 jcarlsoniv wrote: EBWOP: didn't mean to say Veldril insane idiot, meant to say he posted like one. Sowwy =X No offense taken | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
1. A ghost protected me. 2. I have been poisoned, therefore will be death the next night. 3. It is better to keep me alive because I have drawn too much attention upon myself. 4. Bum and Youngminii and LSB are better target to kill than me, because they fervently wanted me to get lynched on day 1. 5. It is better to get me lynched than wasting night action/kill on me, especially when many people suspecting me as a vampire. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
To clarify point 3, only Bum and Youngminii fervently want me lynched. LSB is killed by a vampire because he's a veteran and vampire knows he is not in his team. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 14 2010 18:28 KhrisKruel wrote: edit by way of post: I forgot 4... Vedril, point 3 and 5 completely contradict each other. 4) all 3 of those people are dead For point 1-2, it just a possibilities. No one knows am I poisoned or protected or not. If I'm poison then only Vampires know, if I'm protected only ghost who protected me knows. Actually, point 5 is a consequence of point 3. I have drawn so much attention, leads to high possibility of being a vampire or mafia, leads to likely being voted for lynching, leads to using night kill for other targets. For point 4, what I means is that those 3 people are better target for night 1. So instead of killing me, mafia kills Youngminii and Bum instead. LSB's could be killed by a vampire or a Mafia. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
Actually, after a careful reading, only Bum is killed by a Mafia since Young is killed by LSB's bomb. So the obvious night kills are: Bum -----> Killed by a Mafia for sure. LSB -----> Killed by either a Mafia or a Vampire, however it is very likely he is died by a vampire because he voted for Masq. NB ----> Killed by a Vampire for sure. RisingDragon ------> Killed by either a Mafia or a Vampire. 50% chance. Also, he did not vote in day 1. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 14 2010 18:56 KhrisKruel wrote: Can you explain this? If you were a townie, how would your death strengthen the mafia? To me this is basically a vampire claim Basically, it is because by lynching me, Mafia has nothing to lose. If I'm green, it just at worst a miss but they would not lose a member and maintain 2 more members than a vampire. They can even trace back and analyze to find more possible vampire's member by looking at voting and posting on day 1 relating to accusing me. If I'm a vampire, then basically they reduce the KP of vampire down by 1, and has 3 more members than vampire. That means vampire would be less likely to kill Mafia on Night 2 because they can only kill 2 people, while mafia can kill 3 . In this case (lynching me and I turn out to be a vampire), assuming that they both kill each others perfectly, vampire would be reduce to 4 people but Mafia would be only reduce 8, gaining even more leading. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 14 2010 19:11 KhrisKruel wrote: Veldril is english your first language? No, I'm Thai.... and I'm at work too so I have to type hastily without re-checking grammars and vocabulary. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
If I flip green, they use previous vote to trace back who is vampire. Even if they miss on night 2, there would still have suspects list that could be used later to fish out vampire. It could also put a townie who vote for me on day 1 in danger. If I flip blue, well... I think I don't have to explain how this would affect town. If I flip vampire, they gain a lot of advantage as I explained in the previous post. Right now, town's best interest should be thinning down the number of mafias first. And when vampire and mafia number are approximately equal, then town can choose the course of action at that point, be it lynching me, other known/suspected vampires or known/suspected mafia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let me presented a possible Mafia player that we should vote for today: Yogy The reasons that we should lynch this person are: 1. He voted Masq without posting anything before. If he's Mafia, then he would know that Masq is not on his team. Voting Masq, whom the clue implied to be a killer, would be the best vote to get rid of a vampire. The date and time he voted Masq is On October 11 2010 16:37 Yogy wrote: Vote Masq http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6559376 2. Later, he came up with this post: On October 13 2010 01:41 Yogy wrote: I've been pretty inactive in posting I confess, new to this and trying to get the hang of it. No one has been telling me what to do or who to vote to lynch, I've come to that decision myself. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6572368 Why would someone tell that there's no one telling him what to do or vote if he acted independently? If he indeed acted independently, he should have a reason why he voted for Masq, may it be he is so sure about the clue or else. Moreover, he posted this after someone compile the number of posts each player made. For me, it is very suspicious. 3. He is always inactive. Except the post I quote above, he make no other posts at all. By voting him right now would force him to be more active and we could get more information out of him that would benefit town. Therefore, with these three reasons above, I placed my vote on Yogy. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 15 2010 02:42 zerroth wrote: @jaminz That is really bad because your posts are inaccurate really inaccurate i atleast have 10 posts in this thread You have 9 posts, including what I quote in this thread | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 15 2010 03:15 Nemesis wrote: You were definitely not protected as you didn't seem to know that people who were protected get pmed. Also, why would the ghost protect you? Stop trying to defend yourself as you are just digging yourself a deeper grave. Just be happy that people are considering not killing you today and save you for some other day. Oh, I really skipped that part = =. My bad, sorry. Please skip point 1 then. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
Well, it doesn't matter that much. Just want to point out that he seems to think he posted more than he did. Also, it's 1AM in Thailand (12AM at that time), so I'm quite sleepy and act before posting. Apologize if it's spam the thread. However, I do appreciate jaminz for keeping the post count going because I tried to do once but the search function seems not to show me correct post count in each thread. So to make sure, he might need to go through each page to count a person's post count. Multiply by 50 and it's going to be really hard. So please don't criticize the post count too harsh. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
Sorry for overall bad play guys. My first time in this kind of game, so when BM pressured me, I kinda panic and did things I should not. Any feedback is welcomed. Thank in advance. | ||
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