Team Melee Mini Mafia II

On August 13 2010 04:46 SouthRawrea wrote:
DTA do you wanna be my lover?

On August 21 2010 09:26 Pandain wrote:


Cowbell.

On September 19 2010 10:51 Korynne wrote:
You wake up to the screaming of someone nearby. You try to get up and fall over. To your horror, you've been surgically attached to that screaming voice.

On September 21 2010 05:59 Bill Murray wrote:
LSB's admission is only icing on the cake
@LSB: how would you be so CERTAIN they're scum? You have a scumlist, buddy?



This makes me confident in my earlier read
he is appealing to pyrr's authority.
Scummy, scummy, scummy.

@meeple: I find it funny you ask me to justify my vote when I voted SR on fluff, then make a secondary reason as for voting being fluff yourself. I also dislike you speculating that I was 100% pyrr/SR are the scumteam.... if that was the case, I would have been putting a second vote on Pyrr's team. I didn't. I'm voting SR because I am unsure if Pyrr actually made a slip. The way SR is acting now, though, in the above post, makes me believe that my initial reaction to who I'm voting is actually wrong. I needed to stack on pyrr because his team is way more important as I'm feeling both SR's team #2 with bumatlarge and divinek are scum with Pyrrhuloxia's team #1. My reasoning and justification are how SR is acting towards pyrrhuloxia.

I will also give justification in relation to why we should lynch vs a no lynch day 1. I am not saying "let's not ever no lynch", but that we could use it day 2 if we don't lynch scum day 1.

day 1 lynching scum:
6 v 1
night kill
day 2 5v1 <- possible win here
mislynch + night kill
day 3 3v1 (mylo) <- obvious no lynch unless 100% certainty
night kill
day 4 2v1 (LYLO)

if we DON'T mislynch now, and no lynch later, we can save it for a MyLo potentially.
That's why we need to take a chance on lynching scum today.

this is assuming we fuck up later, but we rocked on day 1. I'm not even really worried about this is Pyrrhuloxia's team #1 flip scum, which I expect them to do based upon SouthRawrEa being a newer player who is a dead giveaway. Though I am more sure of SR based upon his posting, AtA, and my not liking bumatlarge's posting earlier, I feel like they implicate team #1 through SR, and there being a vote on a slot that I find scum is enough for me to want to wagon said slot.

##unvote: pyrrhuloxia/LSB
##vote: SR, bumatlarge, and divinek

On September 20 2010 15:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
lol wow I just caught up and that SR post is retarded.

Well a couple of things I saw. Foolishness Medic lists are useful because of the psychological implications of it. Will a medic follow it, will a medic protect themselves, etc. I am really wondering if a medic protects an ENTIRE team or just one of the individuals on it, that will definitely show how strong a medic is. Since this is basically everything x2 I would assume most roles are the same and have entire team implications. IE: DT check effects both members of a team (since no reason it shouldn't) therefore a medic protection should cover an entire team.

Although if that is the case, I sincerely doubt medics can protect themselves. It will be really OP if a medic could just hoard protections on themselves all game since the mafia couldn't possibly kill them. On the other hand if they can only protect half a person they are a useless role. So medics either suck, are OP or aren't in the game. I'd lean towards not being in this set up especially since Korynne remained vague on the answer. I assume the logic is the same as when one of the mafia games had 6 variations of detectives but only 4 were authentic. The point in that was to add more to think about and take into consideration, but in reality it wasn't practical at all because it would break the game.

On that note, I will just go with my team mate and vote for Rasta/Foolishness for picking at incognitos post and ignoring the validity of medic protection list (even though I think medics probably aren't in this game, or at LEAST can't protect themselves)

To summarize because I like Incognito's idea about that.

1. For the moment I am leading towards foolishness/Rasta just because we have nothing better to go on.
2. Really doubt there is a medic role since it seems like it would be really OP, or really shitty depending on how Korynne decided to balance it, and her unwillingness to clarify in thread makes me think its not important.
3. Vote for Foolishness/Rasta just to make it clear.

Its day one though, so I reserve my right to completely change my mind for little to no reason :D

On September 21 2010 09:46 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:


To answer SR: I just thought that the fact there was no easy confirmation plan on Day 1 was rather self-explanatory but thank you for posting.

On September 21 2010 10:36 LSB wrote:

What do you think about Bum's Medic idea?

On September 21 2010 10:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I do think that Divinek and South Rawrea are both weirdly defensive, but BM's idea for the medic was really good. I didn't realize Divinek was also on Team 2 when we talked about him.

I guess I'll have to see what SR says about that plan since he has seemed to hold steadfast that plans are bad.

On September 21 2010 22:44 YellowInk wrote:
]As has been previously stated, it is critical to scum hunt, not protect innocents. On this premise alone, the default correct action is to hang.
You make a logical jump here without proper explanation. Just because we're scumhunting, it doesn't mean we should lynch.
We cannot expect to make any significant informational gains from day 1 to day 2.
Well if all we are doing is scumhunting, we can't expect to make any significant informational gains on any day. Your statement only applies to cop reports.
The only hard and useful information we could gain is if a blue takes a successful action and conveys this information to the town in a convincing fashion.
Not on day 1 though so I don't quite see what you're saying here.
This assumes both that the blue exists and that the blue takes the successful action. Otherwise, the only knowledge we even get is who it is that the mafia choose to kill. This information is rarely useful in actually tracking down mafia since they will often simply choose a target because it is most ripe - one which they think is relatively unlikely to hang and relatively unlikely to be protected by a medic.
I'm not addressing this as this only regards the viability of blues' actions, not the time at which they take place

Consider as an alternative how useful it might be if we could extend day 1. Post analysis is the only way to track down scum in the beginning. The truth is that this carries on to day 2 in almost every game. As in almost any game of mafia, the town does not have the luxury of waiting until they feel super secure that team X is mafia. Unfortunately we do not have the option of extending day 1 to draw out more information, but we cannot choose to give up a lynch.

The purpose of a no lynch is for specific endgame situations. These have been outlined previously, but I will include them here for completeness. Suppose you have 3 town, 1 mafia, and no blues. Choosing no lynch here does not really hurt the town since if the town mislynches, the town loses, but on the no lynch you will be left with 2 town and 1 mafia.
Using our NL now leads to the same 2:1 scenario, skips the mylo but has the same amount of total in-game days.
Now add in to the mix that the town has a blue among their 3. In this case the no lynch is very town positive. There's a chance the medic could successfully protect or the DT could find the scum. This argument can be extended out to similar endgame situations a day earlier as well.
As you implicitly mentioned in paragraph 1, the only time a blue role is useful is in the end game which I agree with except for the fact that we do not know if there is a DT at all. Mafia could easily claim DT in the 2:1 situation. If the real DT is still alive by then, it becomes a 50/50 vote. (With there being a 50/50 chance of there being a DT, this is a 25% chance of winning.)


Consider also that medic saves sometimes buy us an extra day. If we use a no lynch early (giving up a kill to the mafia 'for free'), this is like the reverse of a medic save. If we end up with an even number in the endgame because we used a no lynch in the early game, we have gained nothing from our use of no lynch.
We still end up having the same number of days total with the same number of lynch chances in the case of a medic save.

Day 1 no lynch is very bad.

On September 23 2010 09:51 LSB wrote:
Response to Incogs post

My Mentality:
+ Show Spoiler +

On September 23 2010 12:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
@ this whole LSB vs. Incognito thing
Incog and SR seem to be locked in on LSB because he is supposedly too passive. He's not close to the most passive person here. BrownBear hasn't done much except advocate a no lynch. More importantly, BC hasn't done shit.

I don't believe BC has an "I don't care mode." I see his name pop up on MSN often enough. I called him out for his placeholder vote on Foolishness and he didn't ever come back around to move it. RoL, is of course active this game, but that's even weirder than an inactive BC.

vote team 6

On September 24 2010 03:57 meeple wrote:



States that SR is a new player and a scum giveaway and they implicate team 1.

I'm going to assume that you mean that he said that I was an obvious scum rather than someone who revealed scum easily. If I'm making any wrong assumptions excuse me but, shouldn't you read the post before you quote it?

Conclusions:
I think we should examine some of the players that bandwagoned on Team 1... especially Team 2 since we know BM had some serious concerns about them.

On September 24 2010 03:15 YellowInk wrote:
##Vote Team 6, BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenD

Review their posts to see their contributions. It won't take you long.

On September 21 2010 06:41 YellowInk wrote:
So there has been some good discussion occurring. As is typical, there are plenty of flaws in arguments. The key here is to figure out where people are trying to be productive (granted, a difficult task on day 1) and where people are trying to look like they're being productive or otherwise staying out of the line of fire.

I am satisfied with Incognito's further discussions.

I would like to hear more from BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenD. BC has not had much to say, and I don't feel RoL has contributed very effectively.

On September 21 2010 13:39 YellowInk wrote:
Alright. I'm pretty convinced. The short version: No lynch is bad. This team's posting has been either unproductive or supporting anti-town ideals.

##Vote: Team 6, BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenD

Current thoughts on blues: If I were a medic, I'd probably cover either myself, team 4, or team 8. Not sure who I'd poke at if I were a DT yet.

On September 21 2010 22:44 YellowInk wrote:
So I am presented here with a problem.

I still find it more likely that Team 6 is mafia than Team 1, though I agree with what most people have had to say about Team 1. After my last post, it was my intention to go into greater detail about why I believe what I do about Team 6 after a few hours and got some reactions.

However, it is far more important that a lynch occurs that I would be 'ok' with than a no lynch than to potentially divide the town among targets and allow a no lynch to occur. Therefore:
##Unvote Team 6
##Vote Team 1, LSB and Pyrrhuloxia

With respect to RebirthOfLeGenD's amazing rebuttal, here is why no lynch is bad.
+ Show Spoiler +

On September 25 2010 04:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I like this analysis. I feel like its where I was aiming with mine but I did it a lot more sloppy because I did it at 5am T_T

On September 25 2010 04:41 YellowInk wrote:
The problem with the vote on my team is that the logic is fundamentally flawed. Very similar arguments point much more heavily at T1. It would make much more sense to hang T1 then give T7 a much harder look should they flip red.
I could continue my point about how you should elaborate about such things especially since you find this so important but I'll let that slide for now just because it's getting much too repetitive for my liking so I'm going to ignore this claim.

Should we hang, we will come up vanilla town. There will be little information gained since the arguments are backwards.

It really makes me wonder what is going on in Incog's head. He struck me with a town vibe mid to late day 1, but then presented the backwards argument to hang T7 before T1 on day 2. This just doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense to me if T1 and T8 are mafia. Then Pyrr can freely back me up on hanging T6 and defend me since either hang is good for them. Also in this case it means T6 just sucks. Maybe BC didn't really have time to play, idk.
The second bit isn't quite important but Incog did say that you were mafia mid day 1. Now I'm not saying Incognito is to be trusted and he could very well be manipulating all of the town in which case he's doing extremely well but he's been posting very proactively and being pro-town. I have no idea where you got the idea that he struck you with a town vibe mid-late day 1.

I would also advise people to go back through every post that has attempted to accuse me (personally). Note how deeply my words and intent has been twisted in particular cases. This, in the end, is what puts me on the T1/8 track more than the T6/?? track.
Okay so what's the point of not posting any explicit information? Your posts are basically your opinions with no analysis of any sort to back them up. I'm not saying that your opinions are wrong but at least make an effort to show that they have some substance behind them.

Also note that this final switch back to T1 is putting my neck on the line since driving for a T6 kill would have been more likely to save me. I just hope that if we do hang that in future days the town will look and analyze for themselves rather than continue playing this super passive game. Better yet, hang T1 and we'll go from there.
[red] At first this seems okay but then you realize that if the mafia team was T7, T6 that his vote on T1 would make alot more sense if you consider a scenario where he's mafia.

##unvote
##Vote: Team 1, LSB and Pyrrhuloxia

On September 21 2010 04:08 LSB wrote:
That's not a slip up. We are pretty certain that team 2 is mafia. I just want a few more posts from them.

On September 21 2010 09:46 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I honestly don't know why LSB is suspicious of team 2. He said "we" were somehow almost certain that team 2 was mafia so maybe he has another partner I don't know about, given that I posted earlier in the thread to say SR was being SR.

On September 24 2010 07:50 LSB wrote:
Um that’s not a defense. That’s a possible explanation. Pyrr explained it quite well

On September 20 2010 15:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Well a couple of things I saw. Foolishness Medic lists are useful because of the psychological implications of it. Will a medic follow it, will a medic protect themselves, etc. I am really wondering if a medic protects an ENTIRE team or just one of the individuals on it, that will definitely show how strong a medic is. Since this is basically everything x2 I would assume most roles are the same and have entire team implications. IE: DT check effects both members of a team (since no reason it shouldn't) therefore a medic protection should cover an entire team.

On September 24 2010 18:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
alright to finish that thought, antitown shit follow by terrible idea for medic claiming for no reason.

On September 22 2010 09:05 Infundibulum wrote:


i dont know. it's kind of established at this point that a medic should protect himself. so if the mafia make a hit and it gets blocked, they can assume whoever they targeted was the medic. since the mafia obviously knows who they target, i think it makes sense for the medic to claim then.

i'm not sure what happens if a medic protects someone else and blocks a hit though.

just precursory thoughts are that if the medic makes a save, he should probably claim - i get the feeling mafia fakeclaims are potentially very powerful in this game

On September 26 2010 15:18 Infundibulum wrote:
2. Mafia claiming medic first is really risky because they don't know whether there's a medic or not. In a LyLo situation, it's the town that's at risk and not the mafia. There's no reason for the mafia to suddenly stop playing it safe and go balls out unless they want to "win with style." neither Incog nor I is that kind of player (granted that's a bit of wifom, but if you've played any games with either of us you should know that).

On September 19 2010 18:44 Incognito wrote:
With that said, time for some useful discussion. Unlike the TL Mafia game's I've played, this game doesn't have a Godfather. Therefore, DTs are that much more viable, especially in terms of checking QUIET scummy teams. Medics should be protecting VOCAL pro-town teams. This way, mafia is incentivized to take pot shots at the middle of the pool, as shooting the scummy players is obviously bad and helps narrow down the pool, and shooting active players risks running into medic protection. Mafia is also incentivized to be active because a) they can draw medic protection, b) they must avoid being targetted by DT checks. Mafia can't hide at the bottom because there is no GF or miller card to save them. There are also way to few players to be able to effectively hide from DT checks. The beauty is that even if DTs/medics don't exist, mafia must still play as if they do exist. So this strategy does not rely on the existence of blue roles.

On September 27 2010 09:46 Incognito wrote:
I'm not entirely sold on Team 2 being mafia. I've made many enemies this game, such as Team 1 and Team 7. And now Team 6. As it stands right now, Team 1/6 are voting for me in (almost) full force.

The Team 2 thing makes sense given they're also inactive in a game where mafia doesn't need to be active. However, I'm not sure Team 1's vote accusing is the be all end all because no lynch was the dominant option on day 1.

Really, if Team 2 is mafia, the game is already over. Its split between Team 6/8 2 teams and 2 teams. Team 2 is the deciding vote, so if they're mafia, why haven't they wagonned me yet?