EPTTeam Melee Mini Mafia II
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Infundibulum
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On August 19 2010 21:53 Korynne wrote: Uh, you can't sign up solo as in playing alone, but you can sign up solo as in I'll find you a partner. that's what i meant, sorry | ||
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On August 21 2010 10:14 Radfield wrote: Subscription...? to teen vogue, duh | ||
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On August 22 2010 07:36 Foolishness wrote: Whoever wants to be with infundibulum should type /INfundibulum! tee hee | ||
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On September 21 2010 04:08 LSB wrote: That's not a slip up. We are pretty certain that team 2 is mafia. I just want a few more posts from them. What makes you think so? I'm curious, because Team 2 isn't on my radar right now for mafia. The way I see it - Bumatlarge seems drunk, Divinek made one post where he completely misunderstood how the game works, and SR talked about the merits of lynch vs no lynch. none of this says 'mafia' to me. | ||
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On September 21 2010 17:36 Incognito wrote: Again, I'm not saying your statement was a lie. I'm saying that the motiviations for your post are shaky. Everyone reading this post should be looking at the subjective question of why LSB is posting the way he is. Reading LSB's posts at face value isn't going to get us anywhere. Its not a matter of lie or truth. Its a matter of what seems realistic given the mindset of the poster. LSB's recent "analysis" on Team 2 cannot be considered a natural pro-town sign since he only posted it under pressure from 3 people. So don't use this as an excuse for why you're town. It won't work. At this point, LSB is certainly scum in my book. I'll be voting for him and I suggest everyone else does too. We need this lynch for the information. At this many people are voting no-lynch, which is just terrible for information gathering purposes. By the way, Team 7 is also mafia. We will lynch them tomorrow after we lynch Team 1 today. Main Points: 1) LSB's defense is ineffective because superficially addresses his "normal" behavior. 2) LSB's current "abnormal" behavior is just icing on the cake. The real point is the mindset behind this behavior switch. 3) Lynch Team 1 today I just want to support my partner here. We've talked about it and i personally think it doesn't matter if we no lynch today or not, as long as we do use it, but i'd like to see some red blood day 1. One thing that strikes me about LSB's accusation toward team 2 is that it feels like he is picking out an 'easy target' (no offense to team 2). However, myself and BM and possibly(?) other people have stated they don't think team 2 is mafia and i stand by my conviction here. Either LSB is misguided, or he was hoping to lead the town to vote on a group of players that tend to appear scummy even when they're town - just look at recent games to see what I mean. Personally I think the absence of Foolishness, especially after his initial long postings, is something to note. I don't know if it's suspicious or coincidental. Rastaban has also been uncharacteristically quiet, in my opinion. ## vote team 1 | ||
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To team 1's credit, Pyrr is not playing the way he usually does when he is mafia - it's mostly LSB that send off alarms for me. Still I think it's weird that LSB goes "we're certain team 2 is mafia" and then Pyrr denies it. | ||
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YellowInk has a point that it would be stupid to use our no lynch today, when we don't need to, when we could potentially end up in a missed lynch = loss situation later in the game. I think this is the strongest argument against lynching Day 1. Is there something amiss with this logic that i'm not grasping? | ||
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On September 22 2010 06:00 Foolishness wrote: That will be the situation if we No Lynch now. Barring medic saves of course. ok, I see what you're saying. the problem is that this the only way no lynching today is right is if we have the "best case" scenario of no medic (or no medic saves). i hate playing under the assumption that everything is going to go swimmingly - i'd rather plan our plays to accommodate for the worst case scenario. no lynching day 1 doesn't do this. The extra time is lost later if there is a medic save. So I think the choice comes down to: assume best case, get 'extra time' now VS. assume worst case, get 'extra time' later. I think there's pros and cons to each play... on one hand having more time now is good because there are more players. on the other, using the no lynch when it can protect town from a precarious situation can save the game @ BM sorry, i must have missed that post of yours. gotta give credit where credit is due. at this point it looks like no lynch is pretty far in the lead anyway :s | ||
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On September 22 2010 08:25 Foolishness wrote: No no no no no I'm assuming worst case scenario in everything. No medic and/or no medic saves is worst case for town. If there is indeed a medic save along the way, that puts mafia at a huge disadvantage because medic can claim. Forcing mafia to counterclaim at the least. We'll deal with that if it happens. We no lynch now we will never have a precarious situation later. It's better to be in a precarious situation with a medic. Of course if you are actually mafia, then yes, best case scenario for you is no medic and/or no medic saves. Is that what you meant? Maybe I misunderstand you? i thought you were saying: 1. we no lynch now 2. there are no medic saves 3. town then avoids any situation where we would have needed a no lynch but don't have one anymore Therefore the 'best case' scenario for no lynching day 1 is that there are no medic saves right? Because a medic save screws up the math, and makes 3v1 possible again? I thought that's what you were saying. I mean obviously every and any hit saved by a medic is a good thing, but in terms of lynch/no lynch math it throws a wrench in the works which is why i thought it was dangerous to make a plan to no lynch that's only good if we assume that one particular set of outcomes are going to happen. this is a really strange Day 1 for me - every other game I've played on TL people have been adamantly against no lynching | ||
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On September 22 2010 08:50 Pandain wrote: No you silly mongoose, you don't understand. You see, if we had medic claim he would have to protect himself. And then mafia would know to avoid him. Now, so what are the benefits of this? 1. We have confirmed townie(or mafia, so this isn't even that good.) We know not to lynch him. But if he just protects himself without saying anything, then it will still have the same benefits but mafia won't know to avoid him, therefore we have the possibility of drawing hits into medic protection. Medic claiming is just a useless tidbit that will help mafia. Also, you got me killed because "I had no plan" that game, even though that setup was worse for plans!(no role information whatsoever) So shut that "Well we can't make plans" i dont know. it's kind of established at this point that a medic should protect himself. so if the mafia make a hit and it gets blocked, they can assume whoever they targeted was the medic. since the mafia obviously knows who they target, i think it makes sense for the medic to claim then. i'm not sure what happens if a medic protects someone else and blocks a hit though. just precursory thoughts are that if the medic makes a save, he should probably claim - i get the feeling mafia fakeclaims are potentially very powerful in this game | ||
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On September 22 2010 11:41 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Well if the medic gets confirmed it would give the cop someone to claim to, if we also have a cop. The cop could check the medic and then pass info through the medic (there's no GF role or anything to make a faulty check). this doesn't work, no PMs between teams. | ||
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On September 22 2010 21:24 Pandain wrote: Why? Do you require feedback on something? I'm at school but thanks to the leniency of teachers I'm able to be on the computer alot. But don't expect me to be super active during 8-3 EST or so. Did Korynne ever confirm whether or not mafia have to make a kill each night? I just PM'd her the same question, then noticed you mentioned it in the thread. I'm also asking whether or not people are notified if they are saved by a medic. If they aren't notified by the host then it becomes a lot harder (impossible?) to confirm someone via protection. I kinda want to move past this topic but feel it would be good to tie up those 2 loose ends. | ||
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On September 23 2010 09:35 Infundibulum wrote: Did Korynne ever confirm whether or not mafia have to make a kill each night? I just PM'd her the same question, then noticed you mentioned it in the thread. I'm also asking whether or not people are notified if they are saved by a medic. If they aren't notified by the host then it becomes a lot harder (impossible?) to confirm someone via protection. I kinda want to move past this topic but feel it would be good to tie up those 2 loose ends. 1. mafia must make a hit each night 2. there is NOT pm notification if a medic makes a save. | ||
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My current thoughts are that Pyrr isn't playing in his normal red style (did i say this before? i think i did) and that i'm a fair bit more suspicious of team 7's postings. At this point since Pyrr/LSB ar trying to shovel suspicion back onto myself and my team, they are either townies that feel like we're "out to get them" or mafia trying to evade and throw back attacks as distraction. Skimming the thread i've seen a lot of scrutiny on meeple but not so much on his partner. Guys remember that we should look at all players on a team and not just one - we really can't afford to miss a lynch. Most glaring to me is that yellowink seems to be consistently ignoring questions about himself, as well as making posts that seem to be intentionally vague (for example: saying he's convinced about team 6 being mafia, but not saying why). Unlike teams 1 and 7, team 6 has hardly any analysis on them, so at this point i think it's weird that they're getting votes. | ||
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On September 25 2010 11:07 SouthRawrea wrote: Is it just me or is it hard to keep track of days? I'm not sure if it's just for this game but I seem to be oblivious of when the next day is coming. you aren't alone - i had no idea it was ending this soon | ||
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On September 26 2010 12:53 Foolishness wrote: Doesn't really matter. Just look through all of BC's posts and tell me how he could possibly not be mafia. BC is very inactive. When BC has been mafia in past game he does this inactive thing too, but eventually he will make 1 or 2 really long analysis posts that try to throw the town off while making them say "only a townie would write such long posts!". I haven't seen him do that this game, but that's probably because he hasn't needed to - we've been pretty far off the fucking track this game so a silent mafia makes more sense in my mind. Why would BC need to distract the town when we're all going after team 7, who were townies? I agree that BC has not been playing in a pro town manner but i don't know if it's enough to make me say that he's 100% mafia for sure. What do you think about Rebirthoflegend, his partner? I think he's been contributing a fair bit more than BC,On the first day where he discussed the merits of No Lynching, and supported incognito's "medic list" against your criticism. Later, he puts out analysis on LSB, Pyrr, meeple and Yellowink. So i think generally he's been trying to help, isn't afraid to take a stand, and not afraid of being visible. However one thing I noticed is that early on BC and RoL vote for lynching Foolishness and Rastaban first. I can't help but wonder if you are harboring some grudge because of this? On the topic of your team, your partner is playing just as badly as BC, by the way, which has been really unsettling all game to me. I've also been borderline on you, but the fact that you're willing to trust our medic claim speaks volumes to me. --- I notice that Incog seems to be taking a lot of heat for pushing team 7. But so did many other players, including Foolishness and SouthRawrea and Pandain and RebirthofLegend - it was NOT a solitary team 8 effort AT ALL, but I expect to see some people (mafia) misconstruing it that way, as LSB is doing in the posts previous to this. As I predicted, Team 1 is coming out of the woodwork to push the lynch target onto us. Not surprising, when you think about the spotlight my team ended up in. LSB is pulling an "Incognito pushed a lynch on a green, therefore he is mafia!" move and I sincerely hope none of you are willing to fall for that. I'm probably going to have to defend Incog in his stead since i think he gave up on this game. But he might be back, I am not sure. As a summary I agree with you that BC is playing like a turd, which is unfortunate. However RoL has been very open and pro town in my view, so I don't want to lynch team 6 because of this. I would rather lynch team 1. | ||
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should have refreshed before post! | ||
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On September 26 2010 12:52 LSB wrote: Okay, Incog is mafia. 1) Incog has good reason to kill Ace Look at this post Ace is initially saying that he suspects the same people as Incognito. However, at the same time, Ace notes that this is a really easy way to pick off townies. Incog has been taking little posts, and blowing them out of proportion. In fact, when I confront Incognito about this, he just brushes it off, and ignores it. Notice that Incognito doesn’t even address this fact. When I later pressure him he still tries to shift the focus. Incog has good reason to off Ace. Ace was the only one suspicious of his activities at that time. Every mafia team has a good reason to kill Ace: because he's Ace. I don't even think Ace was suspicious of Incog at that point. He said that incog had pinned your team also, which means that Ace was suspicious you, not Incog. 2) Incog’s attack on me was engineered to persuade people who did not play with me in recent games First of all, look at Incog’s attack of me. He pulls out my rookie game, and then says that I am the planner in the group. Of course, if you’ve played with me, you’d know that I am an extremely cautious player. Indeed. Look at the final vote count for day 1 against me The only person who wasn’t on team 2 (the team I was suspicious of), and team 8. (Incog’s team) was YellowInk, and YellowInk has never played with me before. I actually find it quite strange that Team 2 seems to follow Team 8 around a lot All Incog knows about you is what i told him: you were townie in flamewheels game and came up with a plan, so as a mafia I hit you because of it. That's where he got the "lsb is a planner" thing from. My memory is fuzzy so maybe it wasn't solely your plan - i don't know. 3) Incog Attacks Team 7 because they are the easier target. Here is Incog’s initial attack of Team 7 First of all, Pyrr did not defend YellowInk. He merely tried to find an explanation for YellowInk’s actions. Secondly, this is completely an completely illigit accusation. Incog through a whole bunch of dirt on Me and Pyrr day one, and I find it really strange that he suffered a bout of ADHD, and decided to attack team 7 instead. His basic premise was that I was supposedly mafia (which was wrong in the first place), and in turn, Team 7 must be mafia. I believe the reason that he switched targets was that he thought that he couldn’t kill me, so hit picked someone that Foolishness would agreed on for a kill. Let’s look at the voting stats In reality, the only team who truly agreed with Incog was team 3, that’s because Incog chose the right person to attack. Team 8 / Team 2 have been voting together. Team 6 voted so that they could live At that point Pyrr, not you, had alleviated some of the suspicion on your team. I had talked with Incog about it and it was kind of my fault that we switched to working on analyzing team 7, mostly because I felt Pyrr wasn't playing in his normal red meta. Again, you are painting the team 7 lynch as though it was solely a team 8 effort. It wasn't. several other players from various teams contributed analysis and supported the lynch. By the way, this is where you've basically played your hand and said that you think teams 2 and 8 are mafia, though somewhat subtly. 4) Killing Pandian/BB Wut? It looks like he’s trying to act like that he’s given up. The defeated townie act. Medic claim. So Incog is either red or Medic. I don’t know why Incog would do this. Here’s a possible explanation. Maybe Incog thought Pandian and BB was medic. I’ll go through their posts and see if anything there might indicate that they looked like a blue role. After finding out that Pandian/BB was that not the medic, he probably assumed that there was no medic. In a normal 7 person game, there is a 50% chance of a medic. Decent odds, and Incog would probably outargue a counterclaim This is an 8 person game, so it’s even harder for the mafia. Maybe Incog assumed that Korr wouldn’t put a medic because the odds were even lower. But why would Incog pull such a desperate maneuver? Well, it’s Lylo. All Incog has to do is make sure that he doesn’t get killed and his scum buddy doesn’t get killed, and they win. ##Vote:Team 8 Here's the nail in the coffin, brother. So far none of what you have provided really amounts to analysis. It is speculation at best. Here you are speculating that "incognito thought pandain and bb was medic." This is absolutely retarded. From the mafia perspective, they don't know if there's a medic or a dt or ANY blue roles in this game. Why, then, would the mafia blue snipe? No, they would kill players like Ace/BM. Night 2 I would guess that Pandain and BB were killed because they didn't vote Day 2. Therefore eliminating them reveals no information from votelists, which is a strong move. Go back and read their posts, and it's obvious they are green - for example, Pandain is pretty great at telegraphing when he has a role (not necessarily a bad thing), and this game he was telegraphing "I'm town!" This conjecture of yours is nothing but an improbable, stretched fantasy that hinges on our team not only being mafia but also being really stupid. In fact, there would be no reason for mafia to fake claim medic at this point where it's LyLo. Here why: 1. the optimal mafia strategy at this point in the game is to pin suspicion on a vocal person who's been wrong in the past day or 2. This is because the town is sick of missing their lynches. They want to see red blood, god damnit, and who better than the guy that's been steadfastly going down the wrong trail? All the mafia need to do is goad the town into doing this, which is what you and RoL are trying to do. Note that I predicted this move earlier in the thread - it's very obvious. 2. Mafia claiming medic first is really risky because they don't know whether there's a medic or not. In a LyLo situation, it's the town that's at risk and not the mafia. There's no reason for the mafia to suddenly stop playing it safe and go balls out unless they want to "win with style." neither Incog nor I is that kind of player (granted that's a bit of wifom, but if you've played any games with either of us you should know that). | ||
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On September 26 2010 14:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I understand that a lot of teams were advocating yesterdays lynch, I was even among them. The thing I am pointing out is why incognito started that? It is a really strange shift and on top of that you guys fake claim medic and are trying to get us to lynch foolishness it just really strange to me. At the end of the day this is basically going to come down to one of two things. Lynch team 6 because you don't believe me, or lynch team 8 because you don't believe them. We can worry about who is after that if we are here tomorrow. So for now pick your sides. This should really let us figure out who the remaining mafia is considering how strong this power play is from team 8. 1. I don't think we really started. IIRC there was murmurs among the town of team 7 playing funky during day 1. it didn't just come out of nowhere day 2. i have a shit memory and coud be wrong about this though. 2. We're not trying to get you to lynch Foolishness... did you write the wrong name or something? in fact at this point I think 3. Honestly though i'm surprised you counter claimed medic. There was no need for you to play that card so quickly. Generally the mafia can wait and say that the lack of a counterclaim indicates that the claimer is lying. For example, you could have said "Incog is mafia and trying to squirm away from inevitable lynch by claiming medic!", all without claiming yourself. But by counterclaiming you pretty much play out your whole hand. ---- Fun Fact™ for those who can't decide who's telling the truth: why do you think it was me who asked Korynne if the medic/protected person gets a PM notification? Don't you think that RoL, masquerading as the eager medic, would have wanted to know this important information? | ||
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On September 26 2010 22:27 LSB wrote: This is a weird defense. Infun is saying that the medic should be like “Oh look there is no counterclaim, obviously infun is medic!” That’s just dumb. The “Pointing out there is no counterclaim” is an incredibly stupid argument for a medic to rely on when straight out counterclaim is so much more stronger. This convinces me that Infun is mafia Please stop twisting my posts. My defense is that a mafia fakeclaim of medic at this point in the game makes little to no sense; neither Incog nor I are the types of players to do ballsy moves like that, I don't think anyone who's played with either of us will disagree about that. The town is who's in trouble right now, and there's no need for the mafia to come out and force a "1 team or the other is mafia because of this claim," situation, but that's what RoL did. I'm pointing out that its dumb for RoL to counterclaim because he's the mafia, and by counterclaiming the mafia play the basic trump card - if he wanted he could have easily argued against our claim without counterclaiming first. If RoL was actually a medic, a counterclaim would have been the right thing to do. But he's not the medic, because his claim makes no sense. As my partner pointed out, his claimed protections Night 1 and 2 are not logical and I'd expect better choices of protection from those 2 players. Now that Infun pointed this out, I don’t think trying to read if Team 8 is medic is a good idea. Team 8 has probably been planning this claim for a while, planting information for a future defence. + Show Spoiler + Anyone else wana claim medic? This is implausible from a strategic standpoint. Think for a minute - why would the mafia plan a medic claim from Day 1 when they don't know which roles are in the game? If you are mafia, why go through the trouble just to fake claim medic day 3 (and 'breadcrumb' it day 1 and 2?), running the risk of a real medic coming out and forcing your team into a 1v1 situation? Especially with 2 town deaths already, the risk > reward so much that this can't even be WIFOM. A mafia claiming medic in the way my team did today would have to be playing intentionally poorly. The reason I asked about PM notifications is that there was a lot of talk about medic confirmations and who the medic should protect. Being the medic, knowing whether or not there are PM notifications is pretty important in terms of planning what to do if we make a save, for example. ==== Look, the only thing stopping me from knowing that you're red right now is the fact that you are so obviously defending RoL's counter claim. If RoL dies today you must know you're surely next based on your long and incorrect accusations of my team. Which means you must either be sure you can get my team lynched, or that you are town and genuinely believe that Team 6 is telling the truth. In case of the latter, shame on you :p I wouldn't expect the second mafia team to be so visibly supportive of Team 6 because if Team 6 is lynched today that visible team [your team!] in all likelihood gets axed next day, since my team would be clear, and that's gg for them. I'd expect the mafia team to play like Teams 2 or 3 has been playing during this Day, especially if you, LSB the townie, are doing the dirty work for them. If you're still holding some animosity because we wanted to lynch you Day 1, please get over it and read the recent day or 2 from a neutral perspective. The key points are: 1. If Incog and I are red, this play is really bad from a strategic standpoint 2. RoL's counterclaim was poorly devised; his claims of protecting himself night 1 and 2 simply don't hold up under scrutiny. See Incog's post. 3. Team 1's vocal defense of Team 6 means they are either mafia trying to flat out win today without a backup plan, or that Team 1 is townie caught on the wrong side and the mafia is letting Team 1 do the arguing. This is because if team 6 dies, they will flip red, most heavily implicating Team 1. So if team 6 is lynched today, I implore the town not to immediately jump at the throats of Team 1 because the playstyle of Teams 2 and 3 this Day fits more closely to a mafia profile IMO. | ||
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On September 27 2010 06:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: This is stupid to argue, I asked plenty of questions regarding medic as well. PM notification of saves doesn't really help us this game as there is no PMing unless you are mafia. If a hit misses the medic knows they saved someone. What does it matter if the individual knows they were saved? Its not like they get to know who saved them. I don't see how asking that question makes you any more of a medic then me. Um, the reason PM notification matters is that the person who was protected can speak up in the thread to say, "I took a hit last night." Without PM notification they can't do this. It has nothing to do with one team PMing another team. Claiming a hit matters, even if you don't saved you. Why are you trying to tell people that knowing who the mafia targeted doesn't matter? Once again this doesn't support how I would play this from mafia. This is an insanely ballsy move that is completely unnecessary from me if I was mafia considering no one suspected me at all. Nobody suspected you besides teams 3 and 7, you mean. Besides, in this quote I'm talking about LSB/Pyrr. Not you/BC. 1. You were going to die anyway, there are plenty of behavioral tells from the previous day like incogs apologetic to your medic claim. It reeks of desperate mafia play. 2. Wrong. Read my reasoning. Anytime a medic can self protect in a game, he should self protect. Plus the reason I can call you out is because the town is going to believe me and get rid of you and if for some reason they choose to lynch the OTHER mafia my ability to protect the other two remaining town makes it really hard for you to make a good hit, since you can't hit me otherwise it proves you are mafia. 3. So flipfloppy. I don't even know what to say to that. Plus your team mate contradicts you by believing Foolishness is 100% town. You can't even get your story strait. [/quote] 1. Why was I going to die anyway? 2. Nope, and this reasoning was proven wrong by Ace before he died. Let's pretend you're really the medic for a second. Why would the mafia hit your team, who has a really strong inactive player, and been slightly on the radar as potential reds? Why would you protect yourself Night 1 when the mafia had no reason to hit you? At least in our case, the two most likely targets were either our team, due to Incog's large presence in the town, or Ace's team, because he's Ace. We guessed wrong, but never once did we consider that the mafia would hit team 6. I'm not sure what you're trying to sayin the second sentence. Of course I can't hit you - I'm the medic! 3. My teammate and I are independent people that don't always agree on everything. Speaking of teammates, it's probably about time for BC to show up and try to save your ass. | ||
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On September 27 2010 04:01 Foolishness wrote: Infundibulum is the one convincing me team 8 is medic, not Incognito. What convinces you that I'm medic? I'm starting to worry that my words aren't going to get through to the other town team (team 1?) and that we're going to lose. I think I've laid out my arguments fairly well, but don't really know what more i can say... | ||
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On September 28 2010 10:55 bumatlarge wrote: Oh also, mafia could chance a hit on team 8 and it will basically be the same deal, lylo with 1 red 3 town if they block the hit, and stop any medic shenanigans confirming another crew and keeping them alive. Still... it comes down to team 8. Are we allowed to push this into hyperdrive and make the move? basically heres what happens 1. we don't block a hit -> 2v1 tomorrow = lylo 2. we block a hit -> miss lynch = 2v1 at night, mafia makes kill = win so we lose no matter what if we miss a lynch, regardless of protection. In order to see Day 5 we will have to get 2 protections right in a row. | ||
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On September 29 2010 04:58 SouthRawrea wrote: What's stopping mafia from NKing tonight and increasing their chances of winning tomorrow because we have no choice but to lynch? You're being too naive. The mafia have to kill every night, I asked Korynne earlier and posted it in the thread | ||
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On September 29 2010 10:02 SouthRawrea wrote: Called it... CALLED IT no you didn't. we self protected. | ||
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how much time is left? | ||
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i really dropped the ball this time around  | ||
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Sorry for messing up... though I was probably going to follow my partner and vote team 3 so it might have been a good thing  | ||
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