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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 29 2010 15:23 Fishball wrote: Are you serious? Should I even have to explain this? I will have no further comments until Ace's posts is up (no matter lynch or no lynch) and more people has spoken up. I don't understand. I'm sorry, can you just look past my stupidy and please explain? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 29 2010 15:54 Fishball wrote: No matter what has been said, even Zeks claims he is SK, I'm not taking any chances until Ace confirms. Also, revealing my check results means Mafia will get it too. SK aside, Mafia already know who "should" have guns. If I checked someone with guns and is not one of their own, who wold that be? The JOAT. Things get a lot more complicated from there. O i see I forgot about the Joat. He's possibly one of our last investigative roles too :/ . So kp is now 1? 1 kill a night is really managable n.n | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
However, no one has said so, and I'm almost certain everyone has talked since then. That leaves 1 of 3 possibilities 1. Someone has no said they were roleblocked yet(highly doubtful) 2.There is no roleblocker 3. Roleblocker was afk and didn't get to use his role. I think the second possibility is the most likely. However, the third is also possible. Now who would be afk during then? Brownbear comes to mind. Anyone else? I'm starting to think I might be an unstoppable medic(that is until I die.  ). | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
I was wondering what you thought about JeeJee. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 30 2010 03:09 LSB wrote: 1. You know that sounds dumb. I had this conversation with SR and Pandian before. Start here and read down http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141431¤tpage=48#951 . Yeah, and you didn't ever respond to my post. :/ I'll post it here if you want to explain why you knew/guessed logicaly. On August 29 2010 06:50 Pandain wrote: Actually, while I'm going to believe you unless a doctor claims he protected Zeks, your whole "proof" relies on that Subversion picked rolecop. Given only 20 minutes to pick, its not unlikely mafia was unprepared for a replacement/was not on on that time. I wouldn't be surprised if subversion, trying to find a good mafia role and unaware of the plan(correct?), picked either CV(duh) Prince of darkness(good mafia role) or even bad santa(at the very list interesting/grants KP) But again, I'm going to vote for zeks because 1.He claimed rolecop 2.He won't explain that quote 3. A doctor hasn't said he protected him. I'll wait till probably ~7 tommorow just to give time for a doctor to claim, but until then my mind's set on voting Zeks. On August 30 2010 03:09 LSB wrote: 3. If he had a legitimate reason, he wouldn't have messed up. . Never doubt the power of human stupidity to ruin the best laid plans. For proof: See my reading fail at a first grade level last game when I was ninja. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
 On August 30 2010 02:45 Pandain wrote: Fun Fact: If you guys had been wondering why I continuously asked if someone had been roleblocked, that was becasuse I am martyr and can be roleblocked. However, no one has said so, and I'm almost certain everyone has talked since then. That leaves 1 of 3 possibilities 1. Someone has no said they were roleblocked yet(highly doubtful) 2.There is no roleblocker 3. Roleblocker was afk and didn't get to use his role. I think the second possibility is the most likely. However, the third is also possible. Now who would be afk during then? Brownbear comes to mind. Anyone else? I'm starting to think I might be an unstoppable medic(that is until I die. ).Also, there's a fourth possibility. One of Chaoser, LSB, and even maybe, MAYBE South was roleblocked. And they're not saying because they are traitor. Also opz (un?)intentionally claiming Joat is a concern. Why? Well first of all, why would Joat talk to Opz first? Without any information to give or anything. The only thing I could see is tha the wanted Opz to know he was Joat, but then the Joat wouldn't even know he was safe, so that would be a bad idea. Furthormore, the JoaT would have no need to tell Opz, as if OpZ was not Joat he would already know that the other person was Joat(or there was none at all.) *scratches his chin* | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 30 2010 03:20 ~OpZ~ wrote: I didn't claim JOAT -__- I just said I doubt he did. My bad. i look too much into posts sometimes. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
So we need a consenus. Whos the CV going to kill? It seems we're either going to kill LSB or south, and we haven't really decided fully. I Say SR, and the Jack of all trades and alignment cop both check LSB, as well as the watcher. Why? This can help many ways. 1. No matter what, we will find out the traitor/truth at the minimal cost of one death(South if he is town.) We will also get a sane check on the alignment of LSB. Why: If South is town, based on LSB's alignment we will know the traitor. IF south is mafia/traitor, we won't even lose a townie. 2. Helps the alignment cop find his sanity. Why: Compare his check with the check of the sane Jack of all trades 3. Can tell the watcher whether there IS an alignment cop(I'm unsure whether he should reveal it however. Not reveal who he is of course, but that there IS one.) Why?: there should be 2 people who visit him. If there's another, than watcher will know mafia targeted him. If there's less, he will know there is no alignment cop. Problems with this: If Joat or alignment cop are mafia. Thoughts? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
But that still leaves the question of who the CV should kill. I say SR, just because LSB did find the serial killer(mafia would never do that, lowers overall kills by one). If SR is townie, then we can lynch LSB unless someone can bring up a good case to hit chaoser instead. Dont worry chaoser, I'll be defending you. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Basically, the bottom portion is what you need to know. + Show Spoiler + Looking over the original PYP makes me feel bad for all my unintentional spam. I'll try to group stuff more together. Sorry guys  Anyway, The Plan for Tonight: For reference, Radfields plan: + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2010 21:26 Radfield wrote: My proposal for tonight: Compvig LSB Bullet Bill(Fishball) check Southrawrea Tracker follow Fishball Medic protect Fishball Once Fishball reveals who he looked at, the Alignment Cop should check that person, as it will help to establish his sanity(at least it will once Fishball becomes confirmed). Fishball you need to reveal your pick as soon as you can, to give the Alignment Cop time to get his night action in. Joat do your own thing, you either protected or investigated last night. If you investigated, you should Talk tonight and let someone know the alignment of who you checked. If you protected last night, you should investigate Fishball tonight, as knowing his alignment is highly beneficial to the town. Again, if you ever find a red you should claim in the thread. If your talking tonight, go with whomever strikes you as most pro-town. Keep in mind that SK is dead, so pro-town means town at this point(as opposed to a SK who is playing pro-town) Chaoser, you should reveal your list the moment someone on it gets NKed Now first and formost a couple of roles will be dedicated to the conclusion of the Traitor crisis. I vouch for Radfield's plan, as noted above and right here. Do we have any way to find out Fishball's alignment? Bullet Bill, nope. Role Cop, nope. Tracker, nope. Alignment Cop, maybe. JOAT! Joat, you absolutely must use your check on Fishball. You are the only one that can. Alignment Cop should also check fishball just in case. Once we establish Fishball's alignment, he can do the rest. However, we need to be prepared for the possibility that Fishball's alignment cannot be ascertained. AC might be naive or paranoid, Joat may have already used his check, or one or both may not be in the game. In which case, we may need to lynch Fishball if he doesn't produce results. Fishball is bulletbill, but we need to confirm him so that we can confirm what he says is true. We know he's not traitor(zeks role checked him), so he is either town or scum. In doing this we can kill two birds with one stone and solve another problem: Finding the Alignment cop's identity. The Joat and the alignment cop should check Fishball. In addition to finding out his alignment(leading to the win-win situation of either town bullet bill or scum) the Alignment Cop will have a sane check to compare his sanity with. But this of course leads to the question: What if there's no alignment cop? This is why I offer an idea to the town: the watcher should also watch Fishball. The watcher is pretty useless anyway and only was useful because Bumatlarge watched the hit target. That is really the only situation the watcher is helpful, and that is very unlikely anyway. I feel this to be more important than that 1/14 chance. Moving on,as long as a certain variable is isolated(I shall explain later) we can find out this answer. How? The watcher should find 3 people visiting Fishball. Me(martyr), the Joat, and the alignment cop. If there are 2 people than there is no alignment cop. In addition, if However, this plan can be fallible if the medic will follow Opz and RNG between Fishball, Radfield, and himself. Then the watcher will not be able to know whether finding 3 people means there is an alignment cop, or that there is none but a medic protected fishball. Any ideas/sides on this? I am unsure as to whether the result of finding whether there is an alignment cop is worth the possible chance of Fishball getting hit. + Show Spoiler + Some notes to keep in mind while considering that 1. The chance there is no mafia roleblocker(no one claimed to be roleblocked last night) 2.Whether we want to reveal to the town(thus mafia as well) that there is/is not an alignment cop. 3. Future plans that will involve the alignment cop. Feel free(and please) comment on that. However, some further thoughts on Radfield's plan in particular. To resolve the traitor situation we need to have Fishball check one of the three possible traitors(SouthRawrea, Chaoser,LSB) and the town has to know that it can be trusted. Fishball could very well lie and say (for example) LSB was carrying a gun when in reality Chaoser was the mafia. Now, that's where we brought in finding Fishball's alliance(via the Joat). But in order to reveal the result of Fishball's alignment, the Joat will have to out himself. Indeed, even the alignment cop will be unsure as to his own sanity until the Joat either claims outright the result in the thread, or waits till the next night and pms him via the use of his "Talk" ability. Radfield, I'm somewhat new here, but I'm trying to think this out logically and I'd like to here your thoughts on whether the Joat should reveal himself, or face the fact we may have to wait for the next night to find out Fishball's alignment(because the Joat can talk to someone revealing results(for example confirmed townie opz)). A way I think of negating the effect of waiting two nights is making it so mafia is unable to contact/recruit the traitor(as long as the mafia has not recruited the first night.) We have tracker track Chaoser, and watcher watch LSB. If the tracker finds Chaoser leading to anyone, or the watcher sees anyone, then we know they were targeted by a mafia action. But I would encourage people to find a new plan as this relies on both that the mafia did not spread out there actions in an attempt to find the traitor night one(aka hit zeks, roleblock someone else.) and that the mafia will not roleblock the watcher. In case your getting lost, right now we are at the situation of deciding how to resolve the traitor situation. In order to do this, we must incorporate two things into any plan: 1.Who the BulletBill(Fishball) should check. 2.Who the CV should hit. These two will give us the info needed to determine whether any of the three are traitor. However, Fishball is the most important part of this. Fishball's alignment is uncertain and his check may not reveal anything if the mafia do not target the person that night. I think the plan should revolve around having the mafia unable to recruit the person this night, rather than finding the traitor tonight(as it will be impossible and I believe dangerous) to know that tonight. Plans should revolve around this idea. Everyone should realize the traitor situation will have to be resolved by night three(next night) as well as finding out the alignment cop's sanity. How will stopping the mafia be caused? I bring you.... The Pandain Plan: Helped by in spirit by the Brotherhood of the SFA. First off, we need to decide who the CV should shoot. The CV will have to shoot anyway, so why not help resolve the traitor situation. LSB dying is prefered because he is Prince of darkness, and if he is town the role is useless, and if he is mafia the role is deadly. So here's what we do: 1. Tracker tracks Chaoser 2. Fishball checks south. 3.Joat/alignment cop checks fishball. Watcher watches Fishball. 4.CV shoots LSB If the mafia tries to recruit chaoser, tracker will find chaoser visiting someone. In addition, if Chaoser had already been recruited, then the tracker will STILL find chaoser visiting someone. If they try to recruit LSB, they will be stupid because LSB will be dead. Figuring out whether South is mafia may be harder to solve. This is because of the aforementioned uncertain alignment of Fishball. In this scenario we will have to wait for night three for the Joat to safely(see:use Talk ability) reveal the results of fishball. But I have a slight variation we should do. Based on the results of Fishball's alignment check. 1. If Joat sees guilty he speaks up and says something. Whatever Fishball claims to have found via his Bulletbill check is questionable and a joat for a mafia will be good.(especially consider the Joat may not even die since he can protect himself the next night. In addition, we have me(martyr) and doctors.) 2. If Joat see's innocent he remains silent. Alignment cop will know of the result outcome and the town will know Fishball's alignment. However, there are some issues that need to be adressed in here: 1.If the Joat is mafia. Wait... #1 Comp Vig #2 Bad Santa #3 Prince of Darkness #4 33/33/33 CV, Bad Santa or PoD #5 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role(Vet, Meth Man, or Bulletproof. 33% chance of each) #6 50% Joat......... 50% Defensive role #7 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role #8 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role #9 50% Joat.........50% Defensive role #10 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role #11 25% Role Cop, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #12 25% Joat, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #13 25% Bullet Bill, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #14. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other(Alignment Cop, Mason, Martyr, etc.) #15. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other #16. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other #17 50% role cop, 50% other #18 50% Joat, 50% other #19 50% Bullet Bill, 50% other #20 50% tracker, 50% other On August 28 2010 00:58 Radfield wrote: whoops, messed up the list command(always preview!). Should look like this: [list=ordered] [*]rastaban---- Comp Vig [*]Chaoser ---- Bad Santa [*]LSB ---- Prince of Darkness [*]Hesmyrr ---- Vanilla [*]Zeks ---- Role Cop, Defensive role or Copy Cat(??) [*]Southrawrea ---- Traitor ------> Vanilla [*]Subversion --- Picked whatever, Did not follow the plan [*]Fishball [*]Opz ---- Tracker [*]Citizen [*]BrownBear [*]JeeJee [*]DarthThienAn [*]siNiquity [*]Divinek ----- Day Vig [*]Radfield [*]Bill Murray ---- Mason [*]Bumatlarge Watcher [*]Pandain ---- Martyr Everyone who was supposed to pick Joat didn't. Except one person(possibly, he might've not even followed the plan.) Jeejee, the person I most suspect of being mafia. So there you go, if JeeJee is Joat AND not mafia we might have a chance. A 25% chance. JeeJee right now is very important. Let's take a look at something. I think theres no Joat. If there is, I think we need to seriously start thinking about whether he should claim because with a high chance of our bulletbill being stolen, the rolecop taken by sk(and dead), and the current claims of roles and the plan everyone was supposed to follow, there should be a 25% chance of someone having picked Joat. So you know what, Screw that plan. Yeah, fadoodle it. All of our plans tonight revolve around finding out fishball's alignment. If we can't do that, we need a new plan. I'm seriously considering whether we should have JeeJee claim whether he is Joat. In fact, I think we should just ignore this whole traitor situation. Unless someone can resolve this, we have no way of really finding anything. All we have is a confirmed town aligned tracker. Oh my gosh... he might be our most valuable asset if there is no alignment cop(high chance there is none too). I say we use the CV to go scum hunting, and we just try to weed everyone else out. + Show Spoiler + Also, some interesting notes: Opz claims to have followed the plan, and yet did the exact opposite. As in, he was told specifically NOT to pick tracker, yet he did. Yet at the same time he's confirmed townie(according to fishball. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Also, I'm interested in your thoughts right now Brownbear. On August 30 2010 22:55 Pandain wrote: Wait... Everyone who was supposed to pick Joat didn't. Except one person(possibly, he might've not even followed the plan.) Jeejee, the person I most suspect of being mafia. So there you go, if JeeJee is Joat AND not mafia we might have a chance. A 25% chance. JeeJee right now is very important. Let's take a look at something. I think theres no Joat. If there is, I think we need to seriously start thinking about whether he should claim because with a high chance of our bulletbill being stolen, the rolecop taken by sk(and dead), and the current claims of roles and the plan everyone was supposed to follow, there should be a 25% chance of someone having picked Joat. So you know what, Screw that plan. Yeah, fadoodle it. All of our plans tonight revolve around finding out fishball's alignment. If we can't do that, we need a new plan. I'm seriously considering whether we should have JeeJee claim whether he is Joat. In fact, I think we should just ignore this whole traitor situation. Unless someone can resolve this, we have no way of really finding anything. All we have is a confirmed town aligned tracker. Oh my gosh... he might be our most valuable asset if there is no alignment cop(high chance there is none too). I say we use the CV to go scum hunting, and we just try to weed everyone else out. + Show Spoiler + Also, some interesting notes: Opz claims to have followed the plan, and yet did the exact opposite. As in, he was told specifically NOT to pick tracker, yet he did. Yet at the same time he's confirmed townie(according to fishball. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Tracker tracks South, watcher watches south. CV kills LSB South is either mafia, town, or traitor. Let's look all possible scenarios South is mafia: Tracker finds him(since he leads to dead person) LSB is dead, but he was Prince of darkness anyway(if he was town he would be useless and if he's mafia he was a dangerous role) South is traitor(already recruited): Tracker finds him(since he leads to dead person) LSB is dead, but he was prince of darkness anyway(if he was town he would be useless and if he's mafia he was a dangerous role.) South is traitor(recruited on the night tracked): Watcher finds out more than one person visited him. Track him again the next night. If he sees anything, we caught mafia. Meanwhile, everyone but tracker just goes regular scum hunting, and after the results we can either lynch South(if found traitor) or Chaoser(if found innocent.) South is town: Watcher sees nothing, tracker sees nothing. We just keep having the watcher watch South, and meanwhile have the tracker track Chaoser. Alternatively, we can just have the watcher keep watching South, but then just wait for Chaoser to confirm his role via Bad Santa killing. LSB is traitor: We all group hug and sing Kumbaya | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 31 2010 04:56 ~OpZ~ wrote: No...I have detailed specific medic protections. Fishballs role is 1000000000000000000000000 times better than mine. He gets specific's whether the person can kill or not. I just follow them, and if they don't go to a dead person because they drafted a role...well...I get useless info. And I can't even necessarily share with the town in that situation. Opz you're following the Pandain Plan right? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 31 2010 05:30 citi.zen wrote: I would certainly not be tracking SR - it seems like a waste, especially in Pandain's plan to watch and track him, while also killing LSB. We'd be wasting an entire night on them to learn little additional information about one single player. I'd track someone like Sinliquidy. Radfield is not a bad target either though. If we could somehow Fishball as town-aligned we'd be in fantastic shape. I think his check on you pretty much confirms you either way (unless, as Radfield said you're both red, which I just don't see). Incorrect, you forget the overall benefits of the plan. The tracker itself has a high chance of being ineffective, as every tracked person has a good chance of a role. Therefore, even if Opz did manage to track scum, as long as he had a role such as roleblocker, Opz would get no good info. This is a much better use of his ability right now, as it will help find a guaranteed scum. Remember, out of South, LSB, and Chaoser one of them is mafia. I would think that finding the traitor would not be a "waste", especially when it takes the place of previous plans to find the traitor(such as the unconfirmed bulletbill and uncertain Joat). By finding out information on south, we really gain info on two people. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 31 2010 05:45 citi.zen wrote: Wait, Opz, I change my answer! Let's track LSB instead. The PoD can't "travel" at night so tracking LSB should be effective, unless he lied and picked traitor. This also means we should CV Southrawarea. Medic - protect Opz! I don't see how this is anyway more effective than tracking South and killing LSB. Except in our plan if LSB happens to be mafia, we manage to kill him(since he is an extremely dangerous role in the hands of mafia.) So my way is the same, with an added bonus. Stick with tracking South. Sudden change, Citizen. Very interesting one too. Hiding something? *Insert more random baseless suspicion* | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 31 2010 06:08 citi.zen wrote: Actually there is a difference: if guilty, South would not be traitor but real mafia making a false claim; LSB would be the traitor. This means South could be the vengeful player making a fake claim and not caring too much if he gets lynched, while LSB could not be vengeful. So out of the two I think South is better to CV and LSB better to lynch, if we see him visit anyone. If south is guilty means there is no traitor. And we lost Prince of darkness, which was a bad role anyway. Are you saying we won't be able to lynch south that day because he may be VP? Cause if so I can see your point, but am still uncertain as to whether the risk of LSB being mafia(and thus having his role be used) is enough to outweigh this. I mean, I think the safer thing to do would be to do my plan, than just lynch based on scum-hunting, and than have the CV kill SR so we won't have to worry about VP. But did I get your argument right? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Tracker tracks LSB, watcher watches south. CV kills South Medic(s?) protect Fishball. I protect Fishball as well. Unless anyone has any more comments on this, everyone must follow this. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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