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On May 29 2011 10:27 Incognito wrote:
No need to make a big deal about this. As long as the mods still allow us to self-moderate, all we need to do is create a Rules thread that people have to read before posting. Offenders would be banned or something.
I'll do this next weekend when I get back from visiting my family. We need to give the stickies a facelift as well (because we no longer show up in the forum index, there is no longer any danger of having the game threads bumped off the index by stickied threads and our current stickies are pretty dated at this point).
Threads which should probably be stickied:
A READ THIS FIRST thread (which points out the other stickied threads, in particular the Central Library)
Active List of Mafia Games
Ban List
Updated OP
Central Library
thread for suggestions on improving the mafia forum
Any others? The miscellaneous thread maybe?
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Include in of those threads a list of trusted hosts/requirements for hosting.
That idea popped up in the active games thread, and I guess it would be better having a list and a faq then to have a select few people(Qatol and Foolishness) answering every question via PM.
At least that´s my take.
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Yeah I agree that we probably need a basic hosting guide/ requirements thread, but I'm unsure if it should be stickied. I think it makes more sense to link to it in Foolishness's thread, where people have to go before they can host games anyways. We can link to it in the Central Library too.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
^
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United States22154 Posts
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I have 462. 463 now. You guys need to step it up.
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Someone needs to write a new "How to play Town" post. This is getting beyond ridiculous.
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On June 10 2011 07:58 Ace wrote:
Someone needs to write a new "How to play Town" post. This is getting beyond ridiculous.
I was going to do this until I realized that the resources are already out there. Its a lot of the stuff that keeps being repeated over and over again, yet keeps getting ignored. The resources are out there, but they're not compiled into one singular guide. The problem here is that there isn't enough discussion on the guides/postgame analyses. It always seems to me that at the endgame people focus too much on praising/trash talking other players and don't actually take the time to learn from what went on in the game. People say that they read guides and thought they were good, but the guides never get applied in practice. Somehow we need to foster more discussion about guides/analyses/playing as town instead of thinking that these pieces are self-explanatory. In other words, I think people would learn better if there was more feedback in the process. Right now the guides are just paragraphs that people treat as some sort of museum piece instead of an improvement tool.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
It always seems to me that at the endgame people focus too much on praising/trash talking other players and don't actually take the time to learn from what went on in the game.
I think it's hard when you're actually playing in a game to be able to look back and find the learning points. Each player is naturally biased to his own perception of how things went down, and it really takes an outsider (or a very experienced player) to actually break down what went on in the game, and where the improvement can take place. In PYPI I can see how the game played out, and see some of the mistakes(or good plays) that I and other players made, but I think it's hard to really take concrete lessons away from a game without talking it out with someone.
Somehow we need to foster more discussion about guides/analyses/playing as town instead of thinking that these pieces are self-explanatory. In other words, I think people would learn better if there was more feedback in the process. Right now the guides are just paragraphs that people treat as some sort of museum piece instead of an improvement tool.
This is absolutely what we need. Perhaps a dedicated thread after each game breaking down the townie play(since this is what we need to improve). Mind you, this is a boatload of work, and would really take someone following the game and willing to make contributions. In PYPI I think town had some real strong points. There was little spam, plenty of townies were contributing their thoughts/ideas that it made it easy to find fairly solid townies, town stayed fairly focused and on task, and didn't get sidetracked. That being said, the sheer volume of list-checks and dt checks meant that very little meaningful scum hunting had to be done. A godfather role or a framing role would have likely had us floundering, instead of cruising to a relatively easy win.
To be clear, I completely agree that more discussion is needed at the end of the game to bring out certain talking points, hopefully with constructive criticism for specific players within the game. I enjoy constructive criticism and think it's extremely beneficial. Some of the mistakes I made during this game:
* The push for Barundar: I honestly thought this was a good Day 1 lynch, as he fit pretty much all the criteria I was looking for. Where did I go wrong? Obviously after the lynch results came in I quickly deduced that Barundar had to be town, but he easily could have been lynched due to my faulty accusation.
* Not backing Incog more: this was just silliness. I had a strong pro-town read, but had too much respect for Incogs play to be able to fully back him. Ace had successfully turned the thread, and I didn't think I could un-turn it. No need for advice here, I know where I failed and how to remedy it.
* Failing at convincing the other players GM was the mole. Yes GM was lynched, but I was as sure as I ever get that GM was the mole, yet barely got him lynched. Where did I go wrong in building my case against him? As far as I could tell it was a slam dunk, but none of the other players seemed to be swayed(other than kita, who was swayed possibly for other reasons). I did miss the Chaoser flip-flop(which was key) but the rest of my case was strong in my eyes. Did I argue too much with him, thus burying the key evidence? Did I not defend myself well enough against GM's counter attacks? Why were the other players unconvinced?
Anyways, these are the things I think about at the end of games, and think we as a group should be talking about. I'm sure we can all see where we went wrong, but not necessarily how to fix them.
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On June 10 2011 08:35 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:58 Ace wrote:
Someone needs to write a new "How to play Town" post. This is getting beyond ridiculous. I was going to do this until I realized that the resources are already out there. Its a lot of the stuff that keeps being repeated over and over again, yet keeps getting ignored. The resources are out there, but they're not compiled into one singular guide. The problem here is that there isn't enough discussion on the guides/postgame analyses. It always seems to me that at the endgame people focus too much on praising/trash talking other players and don't actually take the time to learn from what went on in the game. People say that they read guides and thought they were good, but the guides never get applied in practice. Somehow we need to foster more discussion about guides/analyses/playing as town instead of thinking that these pieces are self-explanatory. In other words, I think people would learn better if there was more feedback in the process. Right now the guides are just paragraphs that people treat as some sort of museum piece instead of an improvement tool.
Changed my mind, I'm writing something. If anyone (Ver/Qatol et al) has any suggestions for what should be included shoot me a pm. I probably won't respond for a week (going on vacation) but I'll definitely look into it when I get back.
@Radfield - post that in the game thread! Maybe it will prod Ver to post his overdue analysis!
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Really liking the write up Radfield, and I wish we could have more discussion about that game.
The push for Barundar: I honestly thought this was a good Day 1 lynch, as he fit pretty much all the criteria I was looking for. Where did I go wrong? Obviously after the lynch results came in I quickly deduced that Barundar had to be town, but he easily could have been lynched due to my faulty accusation.
I think you picked up on my flawed goals. On the one hand I planned on getting killed ASAP to remove my role from the game, and on the other hand I was afraid of a scum copy cat picking up my role if I died early. Because of this my play was a little too general and wishy washy, which should get called out.
I still think I did pro town stuff (limit suspect list, call out Caller), but I don't think you where all wrong.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
@Radfield - post that in the game thread! Maybe it will prod Ver to post his overdue analysis!
I will!
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Who was just in a monobattle with Day[9]? I was just in a monobattle with Day[9]! Fuck yeah.
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and [V] for a Ventrillo (or Teamspeak) mafia.
Got this from the Active Mafia Games thread, has this ever actually happened or was it just a idea?
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On a completely random note, people should join the TL mafia fantasy GSTL league.
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On June 20 2011 21:49 Rean wrote:Got this from the Active Mafia Games thread, has this ever actually happened or was it just a idea?
Chezinu tried to host one. About 5 people showed up total so it floped.
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I have an idea to avoid role stacks on a person
In a normal setup, Townies do not know their roles and it wouldnt be helpful if 2 Vigs or 2 Doctors went to the same person generally (Doctor can protect from KP stacks from Mafia but that's situational).
Lets say that we want to protect Foolishness and a confirmed townie and both our doctors are alive. We can say "Doctor who is closer to the top of the sign up list protect Foolishness" and "Doctor who are closer to the end protect Confirmed Townie"
Now i understand that this is a gamble because the doctors themselves cant tell if theyre the higher or lower doctor (if theyre #3 and #4 that sucks), but this would help coordinate town better imo.
Also, this may not be as useful if the doctors are uncertain to use their ability on the target and do not cooperate.
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On June 23 2011 13:38 Kenpachi wrote:
I have an idea to avoid role stacks on a person
In a normal setup, Townies do not know their roles and it wouldnt be helpful if 2 Vigs or 2 Doctors went to the same person generally (Doctor can protect from KP stacks from Mafia but that's situational).
Lets say that we want to protect Foolishness and a confirmed townie and both our doctors are alive. We can say "Doctor who is closer to the top of the sign up list protect Foolishness" and "Doctor who are closer to the end protect Confirmed Townie"
Now i understand that this is a gamble because the doctors themselves cant tell if theyre the higher or lower doctor (if theyre #3 and #4 that sucks), but this would help coordinate town better imo.
Also, this may not be as useful if the doctors are uncertain to use their ability on the target and do not cooperate.
This line is exactly why such a plan would never work: you have no idea where the doctors are in the signup list so you're just rolling the dice praying they're on opposite sides of the signup list. And relying on luck is not a tactic people like to use.
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EPT
