On July 19 2010 07:15 Protactinium wrote:
Hello all. I have PMed the moderator asking to replace somebody. Though he has acquiesced and granted the replacement (for the player Ketomai) he has yet to acknowledge this in the thread. Please grant me a while to read through the thread, though for now I will
##Vote: Abstain
as a placeholder.
On July 19 2010 08:40 Protactinium wrote:
Forgive me, all. I have gotten about halfway through the thread, though I'm being dragged out now by a friend to go watch Inception. My vote will remain upon abstain, as I will not be back until about 3 hours after deadline.
On July 20 2010 04:50 Protactinium wrote:I kind of want to draw focus to the "Abstain" list.
I haven't seen or read too many Mafia games with the "Abstain" voting option; normally I just see people voting for themselves but that is not allowed in this game. Regardless, the six people on this list are all fairly inactive or haven't been contributing much, myself included. Though tree.hugger has brought up that Mafia will spread their votes amongst other people, I do think he's right in assuming that at least one Mafia member is abstaining, since it's the easiest way out.
When I went back and searched for the relevant posts people had made, I found that most of the above-mentioned do not have really any substantial or substantiating posts. Luckily, chaoser has saved me some time by notating the abstain votes
here. Interestingly, or not-really-so-, enough, abstainers have a pretty low level of useful activity.
Let's start with Laxercannon. He doesn't really seem to make an effort in the game, and only has one post in which he types more than a line of text. He abstains but then doesn't make any effort to change it over the course of the next four or so hours. Also, his lack of attentiveness can be seen in his latest comment, stating that he wasn't following the thread enough. From reading a few past games he's been in, he seems to normally be more active. It's really too early, in my opinion, to draw some sort of conclusive read but I think it can be conclusively said that from the evidence given so far, Laxercannon is not playing very pro-town.
I've never seen tricode play a game before, but I think he's one of the older players, judging by his posting attitude. Out of the people on the abstain list, he seems to be the only one who isn't just posting spam (besides myself, since I only have two posts... though even those two don't add anything!). He votes for an abstain because he has to see his dad off, and then says that lynches have to be used, since saying "what if" loses the game. This is a good idea. tricode reads pretty town in my eyes.
chaoser doesn't really seem to be saying too much, looking through his posts, though he did compile the voting list afterward for the final few hours of the first day. He reiterates some old points beforehand, but I do like the list afterward. Will have to beware of 'paraphrased wording,' of course. chaoser seems to be playing pro-town, but he doesn't do the analysis himself, saying that "others can make use of [this information] however they want." Undecided.
Southrawrea has almost nothing of value posted, and he seems like a new player, in part because of the editing. He wants to 'take it easy' day 1 since there's nothing to go off of, but isn't it beneficial to the Mafia to have the town discuss nothing? Once again I can't say anything conclusively (even to myself) at this point, but Southrawrea isn't playing very pro-town.
Me... I don't feel like I should speak about myself. I just replaced in this game yesterday, caught up at the end of last night, and am making an attempt to PM and post now. I don't want to be an inactive bum, since that just benefits the Mafia. The less inactives there are, the fewer hiding spots the Mafia will have.
And finally, zeks. Votes for Hyperbola as a placeholder (why not abstain?) but then removes his vote after the rest of the votes for Hyperbola, disregarding Subversion's, have been cast. Doesn't really say anything of value, at most just reiterates some known things. Not very pro-town.
Will attempt to comment on other people later as I go along.
On July 20 2010 15:11 Protactinium wrote:
Interesting... we effectively just bought ourselves another day.
Ah, my pre-emptive refreshing before posting has shown me that BrownBear has elucidated the first part of my post above. Being too lazy to delete, I am going to post it anyway.
There are a few scenarios that come to mind though, and plausible or not I feel compelled to list them out:
1) d3_crescentia is a non-Veteran role and was saved by a Medic. In the games that I have read and played before, Medic saves, especially so early, are pretty unlikely.
2) d3_crescentia is a Veteran and took the hit. Probably the most plausible situation.
3) d3_crescentia is Mafia, claiming to have taken a hit while the Mafia doublestacked Foolishness in order to kill him. I don't think this is the case, but it could be a highly effective ploy if used correctly...
BrownBear: your post assumes that there are two Veterans? We do not know that there are that. If there is only one other Veteran and d3_crescentia claims that the logic goes to nil.
After Foolishness died, my immediate thoughts (of course) went to DarthThienAn. Before Foolishness' death, the two of them had an argument. Then Foolishness died. This alone makes me less suspicious of DarthThienAn, given his post-death trolling. Will go back to read Foolishness' posts though. From my readings he is generally pretty insightful. I remember him calling one person out but I'm too lazy to find it at this point since I want to get this post out.
Wondering about youngminii. After defending himself, he has gone silent. Also, let's not forget Subversion, with his "Mafia have not made many mistakes so far" and the suspicious vote.
On July 20 2010 15:18 Protactinium wrote:
Ignore me, I'm an idiot. Should have read OP.
On July 20 2010 15:40 Protactinium wrote:
Wow, damn not realizing it was a fully revealed setup just wasted my night's thinking.
Regardless, this kind of setup is very favorable to the town...
Ugh, back to thinking. Screw my inattentiveness.
On July 20 2010 15:44 Protactinium wrote:Probably not today, unless we can find two clearly delineated targets.
Ah, scrolling backward. With the whole Vet idea, let's not forget this:
Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 13:44 Subversion wrote:Hey man, congratulations, that's really exciting news
Wish you all the best
On point, I was also in agreement about the weirdness of Foolishness's post, but now he's dead.
Seems at the moment, mafia aren't making too many mistakes.Not sure about the block of votes for Hyperbola, seems if it was a scum-instigated thing they could have easily spread it out more? Might have just been a bunch of townies jumping on the bandwagon. Although, I would guess there's a good chance there's one or two mafia in there, who saw an opportunity to jump on a townie vote.
And don't forget he made the winning (or losing...) vote.
On July 21 2010 08:15 Protactinium wrote:Protactinium’s thought processes and actions of last night:
1) Spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about the night deaths
2) Ponder how to use options delineated to work around the semi-open setup.
3) Realize that the setup is, in actuality, fully open.
4) Curse self.
5) Begin to scroll backward through thread.
6) Fall asleep.
7) Wake up thanks to overly-shrill alarm clock.
8) Get halfway through Proleague, fall asleep again.
9) Wake up late in the afternoon.
10) Check Mafia thread.
Four new pages, and they’ve been pretty good. Time to go through and comment on stuff.
Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 22:55 chaoser wrote:
Sorry if this is a little off topic since we're not really talking about double lynches yet but if we vote double lynch today, it get activated next day cycle right? So why wouldn't we vote for it today? It's probable we'll have a wealth of information by the next day.
Yes, you vote the day prior to activate the double lynch for the next day. Since it’s been brought up, just to further expound upon the double lynch debate: it may be okay to use Day 3, meaning we’d have to vote for it now. Given the nature of this game, a lot of confirmation can be found at night—any medic save will result in a confirmed townie, and disregarding the 1/soon-to-be-27th chance of hitting the Godfather with a check, Detective checks will come back with a confirmation as well. However, at this point it’s still much easier to strike green (or blue) with checks, meaning that there’d still be no definite, not to even think of having two locked choices, for a Day 3 double lynch. As the game goes on, the town gets exponentially stronger information-wise through confirmations and PMs, and we only have two double lynches. However, since it seems like there is a lot of finger pointing. Best to save the double lynches, in my opinion, for when the town is more united.
This might have been discussed to death already, but I do not agree with BrownBear’s Veteran roleclaiming plan. As Amber[LighT] has said, a Veteran has one vote regardless of how long he/she remains alive. In reality, until a Veteran is “confirmed” either through taking a hit or being the target of a Detective check, he/she is nothing more than a Townie. BrownBear has said that Mafia would not dare claim Veteran since when the third claim surfaces one red is guaranteed to go down (unless it’s the Godfather) but I agree with Amber when he/she (guy, right?) says that the Veterans would then just serve as a shining beacon of “hey, don’t waste your KP on me.” Even if two people claim Veteran, Detectives would still want to check them to make sure—what if one of our Veterans is an inactive player and hasn’t read the thread? Since pretty much any Detective check will confirm somebody, essentially wastes a check where Detectives could be trying to find reds, since once again a lot of fingers are being pointed right now. Mafia don’t have to hit the Veteran—they simply just have to use the Bomber on one, in hopes that a Detective will try to confirm. This has been talked about below, so I don’t think I’m going to talk about it more. iNfunDiBuLuM has also said this too. Whoops, how did I miss his post. In short, I do not agree with a Veteran claiming plan.
BloodyC0bbler’s plan is nice, and he really does highlight how advantageous the town has it this game. Also, it serves to show how much more of an advantage we have as compared to a regular game the longer we wait.
As for the last two pages, I’ll over them separately. It seems right now that there’s just a lot of flak being thrown around randomly. If I check the pages, I see DarthThienAn, citi.zen, Subversion, Chaoser, and BrownBear seem to be accused. We’ve still got more than a day left, so I’m going to take my time and do some reading. I guess I’ll compile my thoughts on these people by looking at posts.
Dinner (first meal of the day!) now.
On July 21 2010 08:36 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 08:26 Amber[LighT] wrote:guy. name changes aren't allowed for old dogs
Okay, I just wanted to make sure as to not potentially offend somebody!
On July 21 2010 08:56 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 08:41 Pandain wrote:
On Subversion and BrownBear, I feel that Subversion is being voted on unfairly. Subversions one line "Oh the mafia aren't making too many mistakes" does not seem AT ALL to be indicative that he's the mafia. As Citizen has stated above me, it sounds reasonable coming from a new player such as him. I myself am still confused as to HOW this makes him mafia. Especially more so than brownbear.
...
I personally do not have firm conviction that Subversion is Mafia, as there still isn't much to work off of. However, the post that I brought up with the line in question was brought to my attention through PM land, and while it is something a new player would say, Freudian slips are still part of Mafia. I think though that more people are suspicious of Subversion because of the way the voting turned out. It doesn't make him Mafia, as other people were bandwagoning on Hyperbola as well, though it does make him suspicious.
On July 21 2010 09:17 Protactinium wrote:
Okay, I can understand that Subversion. I guess you and BrownBear were both just pressure-voting, and those kinds of things do happen. Still though, you have to understand why it's suspicious to be like that.
As for the role claim, ambivalence. Generally either mass roleclaims work or nobody role claims. One or two people doing so is bound to lead to sniping in the future, and it takes confirmation first.
And Infundibulum's list is interesting. I'd forgotten about the inactives. Definitely going to pressure them to post, though I wouldn't mind seeing some modkills at this point to give us more information.
On July 22 2010 02:26 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Rastaban (and others), to clarify my double lynch vote: it's a bet that after tonights actions we will have more than 1 target on the next day. In my experience Days 3 or 4 are the best time to start the double lynch (which means for Day 3 we vote for double lynch on Day 2, etc). I don't like waiting until Day 5 for double lynch because too many townies can die by that time and it makes it harder to use one of our most dangerous weapons against the mafia. If you guys aren't voting for it today, you should strongly consider voting for it tomorrow.
I can live with this. From my standpoint, I still don't believe there is enough conviction to risk wasting one of our weapons, though I will most likely be voting for a double lynch for Day 4 (voting during the next day).
Show nested quote +Re: DTA -
I should thank pyrr for doing a really thorough analysis here. I do think it's possible the mafia took that gambit of not killing DTA to make him appear more red (see Foolish's quote... "if the mafia don't kill you tonight you're red" [that was paraphrased]). So, I want to see how he responds to Pyrr's accusation before I decide if I want to vote for him. The pressures pretty strong already. ANd i gotta say i'm all but convinced on this one.
Pyrr dropped a bomb with this one. Reading through it is very convincing, and given how DarthThienAn has been playing this game ("Chezinu"-style but even more useless) at the very most he is playing very anti-town. I'm tempted to place my vote on him, but as we still have around 11 hours till deadline the fact that DarthThienAn hasn't been able to defend himself means that my vote will be staying upon an abstain now. After all, innocent till proven guilty, right?
Something that should be taken into consideration is the dichotomy of the battle. Still so early on, I don't think it's worth it for Mafia (if Pyrrhuloxia) is indeed so to make such a direct attack, especially since Mafia know that the victim will indubitably flip town-aligned. Of course, that could be WiFOM speaking but it doesn't seem likely. If DarthThienAn is not Mafia, then we probably have a town-on-town fight that the Mafia are either going to slightly help stir on or sit back and enjoy. Make no mistake, DarthThienAn is a strong player. I have read over a few of his past games now and he is quiet coherent and forceful when he wants to be. Hopefully this calling-out will force him to be more of a benefit to the town.
In regards to Subversion: The more I read into it, the more that I think people still accusing Subversion are just looking for an easy target. As Roffles has mentioned, Subversion still seems new to this game, and blunders do occur. If they continue to happen, we can easily hold him accountable for them, and his trail is easy enough to backtrack.
The same holds true with BrownBear. He (conclusively figure out it's a he from reading past games) can be a very well-spoken player, and was very pro-town in the first game he subbed in for, where he got into a bit of a sticky situation with a strategic modkill scenario. He's attempted to make amends for his Day 1 actions, though if his posting slips back into the unacceptable zone he's already on radar.
Chaoser seems to be a separate ticket, though if he is red he is not as strong a threat as DarthThienAn can potentially be. I assume Chaoser's experiment was to get Subversion to claim, though I think at this point we've already had enough soft claiming to get us through.
With all this being said and done, right now it seems like that along with the rest of the town, we're all waiting for DarthThienAn to speak. Hopefully he'll finally calm down and give us some legible answers, and hopefully we'll be able to bring out the great town player in him.
For now, since I am heading out for the day I will once again
##Vote abstainas a placeholder. I will most definitely return before deadline and will change my vote to DarthThienAn, but at this point I'm unwilling to vote for Subversion or BrownBear. Chaoser, too, can wait for a later day, and we will pressure him to post better.
People that need to post more: tree.hugger, Divinek, lakrismamma, SouthRawrea, ~OpZ~, BloodyC0bbler, d3_crescentia, Tricode, and zeks.
I am just going through the player roster thinking "who haven't I seen on the thread" in a while, so this list may be subjectively based upon my memory. For the most part though, I think this is correct. Don't let inactivity hurt us, town. Just because we're embroiled in this current situation it doesn't mean we let potential Mafia just sit back and do nothing.
On July 22 2010 02:28 Protactinium wrote:
Reposting as to edit above: after the vote, where it says "... and will change my vote to DarthThienAn,..." I forgot to include the conditional "if he does not provide a satisfactory defense/explanation" at the end of it.
See you in a few hours, town.
On July 22 2010 06:40 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 06:27 chaoser wrote:
...
the last two, protactinium and zeks, don't really mention no-lynching but they both advocate lynching someone (an inactive the first day). They both abstained.
So are these guys suspicious cause they contradicted themselves as well? Bring a better argument.
Chaoser, throwing blame around isn't the best way to make your case, especially if you are so blatantly wrong. I was subbed into this game and did not have time to finish reading the thread, as stated. If you are going to make false accusations, at least try to back them up.
Furthermore, you realize that unless
everybody abstains, somebody is bound to be lynched. There is no majority system here.
On July 22 2010 07:48 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 07:44 Pandain wrote:
Also, since as of now theres basically a 3 way tie between Darth, Subversion, And Chaoser, what happens if theres a tie. Do they all get lynched? None of them?
5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins over the other person. On July 22 2010 10:58 Protactinium wrote:
Will cast my vote in around an hour's time.
I still get this feeling that we're being toyed with. There are far too people talking over this to make me think that we've hooked a Mafia member.
Of course, that's WiFOM speaking to me.
On July 22 2010 11:58 Protactinium wrote:
After careful consideration, I have to
##Vote DarthThienAn.
Your playstyle is too hard to read, and though you're posting in a more normal fashion at this point I believe you have polarized the town the most. While Subversion drew a lot of flak for the missed comment, in the end most of the impetuous people who jumped on that withdrew, but your case has thoroughly divided the town. At this point, I don't even know if any of you three are Mafia, and I am loathe to undertake a last-hour bandwagon. Between the madness you have brought us enough posts to look at, so in the case that you die we will be able to go back and find how this all started.
On July 22 2010 12:00 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 11:59 DarthThienAn wrote:On July 22 2010 11:58 Protactinium wrote:
After careful consideration, I have to
##Vote DarthThienAn.
Your playstyle is too hard to read, and though you're posting in a more normal fashion at this point I believe you have polarized the town the most. While Subversion drew a lot of flak for the missed comment, in the end most of the impetuous people who jumped on that withdrew, but your case has thoroughly divided the town. At this point, I don't even know if any of you three are Mafia, and I am loathe to undertake a last-hour bandwagon. Between the madness you have brought us enough posts to look at, so in the case that you die we will be able to go back and find how this all started.
like I said, when I die and flip town, lynch Pyrr
This is definitely going to be taken into consideration, and was one of the key factors in my decision. Since you two are pretty "big-name" people going at it, it'll be easier to eliminate a strong Mafia member.
On July 22 2010 13:23 Protactinium wrote:
At least he wasn't blue.
Tomorrow's the day for backtracking.
On July 22 2010 13:30 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:29 Amber[LighT] wrote:On July 22 2010 13:28 youngminii wrote:On July 22 2010 13:25 tree.hugger wrote:On July 22 2010 13:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I regret nothing. Why the fuck did he fake blue?
Because he didn't.
Either Pyrr is a clever mafia, or a really really bad townie. I'm leaning towards the latter, and seeing as how we don't seem to want to kill the obvious mafia, can we take this one out next?
On July 22 2010 13:23 youngminii wrote:
So on the bright side, how credible am I as a townie ey?
You're not at all. And you never have been.
How the hell am I not. Can you keep up with the thread please? I backed hyperbola, I backed DTA and I put my reputation on the line for him. If you think that somehow doesn't buy me any credibility at all you're heavily mistaken.
It doesn't buy you any credibility.
What's with having to "earn" your credibility anyway. Just play correctly and you won't have to be like "hey guys, I'm town, I'm town, have I convinced you I'm town yet?"
On July 22 2010 13:34 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:32 youngminii wrote:
Well see Protactinium, with a central townie to rely on, the game becomes much easier as he can direct the scum hunt without the town having to worry about the central townie being scum. Also, every confirmed townie makes a huge bit of difference late game.
It is not enough to play 'correctly' especially as the game goes on.
You are not a confirmed townie. You are not a central townie. You are not a confirmed, central townie. Please bring this back up when you become one.
On July 22 2010 13:39 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:36 youngminii wrote:On July 22 2010 13:34 Protactinium wrote:On July 22 2010 13:32 youngminii wrote:
Well see Protactinium, with a central townie to rely on, the game becomes much easier as he can direct the scum hunt without the town having to worry about the central townie being scum. Also, every confirmed townie makes a huge bit of difference late game.
It is not enough to play 'correctly' especially as the game goes on.
You are not a confirmed townie. You are not a central townie. You are not a confirmed, central townie. Please bring this back up when you become one.
I never said I was. I was saying that in response to your question 'What's with the earning your position as townie anyway'. Stop twisting my words.
I don't need you to tell me the rules of the game. You and I both know this. When I say "you" I mean it in a general term. You're so hell-bent on trying to appear as town that it works against you.
I'm stopping here. There's no point discussing this further as it adds nothing to the thread.
On July 23 2010 11:01 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 10:54 Pandain wrote:On July 23 2010 10:51 chaoser wrote:
So right now the consensus to move to tricode/zeks/amber/misder? Sigh...wtf did we do on day 2 then...
Yup, that's the problem. We fuddled up day2.
Theres a chance that one of the 3 remaining lynch suspects from day two are ACTUALLY mafia, but as of now it's too hard to tell which one. I for one feel it would be much better to focus on the quiet ones in this game, in order to at least get them to talk.
Unless anyone disagrees with me, I think that should be our plan.
I'd like to wait till the Night is done (does it end at 13:00 KST again or was that a one time thing?) before deciding on targets. Bandwagons start this way, you know. Hopefully we'll get a good check result back, but if not let's see...
Tricode just seems bored. His self-kill comment just makes it seem like he's bored, but he could just be fooling around.
zeks is pretty inactive; need to see him post more and about his own thoughts instead of going along with the flow.
Not sure on Amber, have to continue reading.
Misder is going to be out for a while, so we won't be able to hear anything from (I'm assuming it's a him?) him. Beating a dead horse is kind of mean, as well, but this is Mafia. Through skimming his posts I don't find anything overtly Mafia about him. He does seem slightly tied to BloodyC0bbler though.
On July 23 2010 13:57 Protactinium wrote:
Officially, if we go by the clock we're already almost four hours late.
On July 23 2010 14:30 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 14:27 Pandain wrote:On July 23 2010 14:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Before this day turns into a giant flame fest like the last few pages.
I took a hit last night.
Holy crud. This is the info I was talking about.
Wait a second... then how did two people die. and a third got hit?
Was there a vigilante?
Has to be a vigilante shot. There is no sign of a Mad Hatter death...
Which raises two pertinent questions:
1) Which one of the hits was a Vigilante shot?
2) Was the shot a lone shot in an attempt to be a hero, or was it directed?
Compiling Roffles' and Jayme's posts. I don't really recall much of them during this game between everything else going on, but they both seemed semi-inactive. I guess this was a blue-sniping night...
EPT
