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I'm in, just have a few questions.
You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Just to be crystal clear, rule #4 is saying that you are not permitted to roleclaim the mason? (Just seems like an odd rule, though I'm sure you have your reasons ) Also, not clear on the definition of 'breadcrumbing'. Is this to say that you can't hint that you are a mason? Is one still permitted to otherwise encode messages within one's post?
Does the Minister of Magic have 3 votes?
Are you just not allowed to say you're running for MoM if you're not 18? That is to say attempting to do so is a modkill or just won't be considered when counting votes, thereby revealing that you are not 18 if you came in first or second?
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YellowInk wrote: You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote: 1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies.
To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list).
I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter.
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On June 15 2010 05:09 Bill Murray wrote:+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 04:11 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote + YellowInk wrote: You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote: 1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies. To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list). I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter. ^ YellowInk1. I am the mod. My word is law. I reserve the right to change any rules for game-breaking I will not be accepting name claims to occur in this game unless I am sure it will be balanced or your role PM specifically states otherwise. You may spell claim, or claim whatever nonsense you want, but try not to break the game. "Not Slytherin,eh?" said the small voice. "Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it's all here in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that--- no?
Not trying to be argumentative or anything, just trying to make sure I understand the game well enough while ensuring the game doesn't get broken during the run.
So if there's a rule against name claiming, how do we draw the line on breadcrumbing information about ourselves or others? As you have stated we can talk about our spells. Clearly we can claim that we are 18+ (verifiable by modkill if false), so it seems reasonable that we can claim we are under 18. Is the line drawn here and we cannot claim anything else about our roles? Can we claim house alliance? Gender? Hair color? Whether we can talk to snakes? Our true feelings for Hermione? The more we're able to talk about, the closer we get to role claiming in the first place.
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Even just considering that if you draw the line at what has already been explicitly stated that we are allowed to claim (age and spells) and allow no other claiming, it would be difficult to moderate where players might choose to 'roleplay' the roles they are given in some fashion. Furthermore, just the information we have is enough that the game could be opened with "everyone claim whether you are able to be put up for ministry of magic or not". This alone gives the town an endgame advantage when all the 18+ or <18 get accounted for.
This sort of problem is common in any theme game. This is why I suggested giving the mafia a safe list since it is the simplest way for them to not just get immediately outed by mass role claims in any way, shape, or form. There are other ways to mitigate mass role claim effects (and I actually have a game design written up to see how effective it is), but it gets really hard to keep balanced.
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On June 15 2010 06:01 BrownBear wrote: I would think to balance it out, nameclaiming in the thread would = modkill.
Another flaw with any attempt to moderate whether you can explicitly name claim is that it can be unfair to deny a claim that you are a given name. For instance, can I say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly?" This gets to be a really slippery slope. If I can only deny claims made against me, I could just ask everyone to throw claims at me until they hit me, etc, an obvious breach of the spirit of the rules. Even if it weren't so blatant, it's clearly going in a direction that you do not intend. If we can't say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly," then suppose a player says I am either Ron Weasly or mafia (perhaps based on my list of abilities). It gets very messy as to how I can go about defending myself without saying whether or not I am Ron Weasly while still trying to show myself to be non-mafia.
tl;dr it's really hard to moderate this kind of thing when accusations start getting thrown around.
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^^ Also, a moderator's job should be simple, clean, and easy to perform reducing the chance for any error in game. That's why I'm looking to 'break' the game before it begins.
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On June 19 2010 05:14 Abenson wrote: Is this game gong to be related to the book? Example: Harry Potter = Horcrux He might deviate a bit and just make all townies horcrux for the challenge.
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MOD request: Please edit the rules to reflect actual gameplay. Upon reviewing the thread I have noticed scattered rule changes that do not appear reflected in the original post. As the thread gets larger, I will of course do my best to follow all of the rules you have set out, but we will all be using the original post as our core reference.
Re my inactivity: I thought we were on a Monday start due to requests to avoid Father's day, so I did not check in here. No worries, I will be plenty active in this game, but now I have a tarnished opening record. =\
Re my nomination for MoM: I am fine with running for minister here. I don't think that I have any special qualifications beyond the other two candidates posed except, well, that I know I am town. But supposedly so do they, so yeah. If people feel that I would be a valuable choice in the election, I would gladly take the role to at least keep it out of death eater or even independant hands. My spellset would mesh reasonably well with an elected role, but regardless of election will need to remain concealed to keep its optimal efficiency.
Re roleclaiming: Bill Murray has stated that we cannot mass roleclaim. We may not name claim. + Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 05:09 Bill Murray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 04:11 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote + YellowInk wrote: You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote: 1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies. To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list). I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter. ^ YellowInkShow nested quote +1. I am the mod. My word is law. I reserve the right to change any rules for game-breaking I will not be accepting name claims to occur in this game unless I am sure it will be balanced or your role PM specifically states otherwise. You may spell claim, or claim whatever nonsense you want, but try not to break the game. "Not Slytherin,eh?" said the small voice. "Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it's all here in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that--- no? There was some discussion after this, but ended without a clear result.
Re oddities in electoral positions: Note that the Minster of Magic does not have 3 votes. They get a weak form of bodyguard protection and choose the day 1 lynch. Note that the Governor does not get bodyguard protection and an indeterminate number of chances to pardon. This role seems nearly useless for town and incredibly powerful in death eater hands. I would wonder if it has some usefulness to 3rd parties.
Policy decision: I think it may be a good policy to straight up say right now that if the Governor ever uses their power, we must hang the Governor the next day. We have masons, but I think that if we have a mason Governor it would just look too suspicious for them to save a mason anyhow. I would rather keep a death eater off gaining more than one day from this power guaranteed than for a potential town mason Governor to use this (since the town mason Governor has no way to confirm that the target is a mason anyway by rules).
I have skimmed the thread to pick up the important bits but definitely not carefully enough to pick up on behavior, so I'll have to spend some more time on this. Still, it's just day 1, reads aren't the best. Also, prospective MoMs, if you havn't already, please indicate your interest for day 1 lynch and thoughts on how to organize.
Note to MOD: From here on all is fair game. My posts prior to the start of the game were to attempt to 'unbreak' the game before it started. Since it was chosen to end the discussion, we're now going to work with what we've got and attempt to win.
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Alright, well if this rule was re-reversed, there's still at least one update to the OP that needs to be made (he said anyone can run for MoM). I just want to be sure I can go to the original post and read a correct set of rules.
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@ day 1 lynching policy: Unless a good red argument is presented, I would go after whomever is least active that is not going to be modkilled. We need people to be active to root out the red, so I encourage everyone to post frequently.
@ existance of bus driver: I am sure this is a game full of spells. Be wary of when and how you use them. The bus driver is devastating if they can predict your movements.
@ existance of godfather: With 4 death eaters and one being godfather, investigation seems even less useful than ever. If your investigations are of a limited number, use them wisely. If they are extremely limited, I would probably wait until you have someone analyzed on behavior before trying to check them out.
@ DT investigations of me: I'm going to try to avoid wasting any of our investigations by saying that I would not be a good target for this. Whether you believe that makes me pro town or pro mafia is up to you. However I will say that in a few days if I am under heavy suspicion and people come after me with a lynch I should have enough substance to be able to defend myself and show myself to be town.
@ medics: Whether this claim makes me worth of protecting or not is up to you. I would recommend slightly against protecting me as I would hate to see multiple medics covering me. It's good to keep the death eaters guessing on their targets, though. My partial claim should serve this well.
Because I have come forward to say these things, I think that this would make me an ideal Governor. If I am red and end up being forced to use my pardon early, you will lynch me and my partner the following day - town would be in an excellent position. Since I have stated that if I come under suspicion later in the game I will likely be able to defend myself, you could use that to see that I am not red and therefore not have to worry about getting ambushed by a pardon effect in the late game.
I would be fine if chosen as Minister of Magic as well, but I think with what I have claimed that the death eaters would not target me in the unprotected role of Governor due to fear of being blocked by a medic.
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This thread is like a ghost town leading up to the deadline - especially with so many votes uncast. Between the other candidates I am indifferent, so I'm dropping my vote on myself. I will consider others as more votes come in.
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So I come back over to this thread to basically find a bunch of votes being tossed about without reasoning and a whole bunch of people not posting much of merit. A bit of heckling is all. I don't like where this game is going.
Town! Speak! We win by analyzing your behavior and picking those amongst us that are laying too low or speaking scumtalk. If you don't speak, we're going to have an awfully hard time winning regardless of who gets elected.
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On June 23 2010 06:06 ~OpZ~ wrote: Hey, if you wanna kill DC I'll vote for you....So tell me you'll kill him and get a vote yellowink
I'll bite. I don't have a read on DCLXVI either way. If I'm elected MoM (which I think is unlikely), I'll lynch DCLXVI unless there is some other compelling argument.
DCLXVI, don't take this the wrong way, I don't think I'll be elected MoM anyhow. You should vote for me to get me into Gov if you have faith in me over the other two candidates. I believe you do since you voted for Roffles.
I have to agree with the sentiment of not liking the Amber[light] & Radfield together ticket.
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To be clear, I am running on the platform that I don't like the Amber[light] & Radfield combined ticket. If this bothers you and you think I'd be a better candidate - or at least to break them up, you should vote for me.
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I'm just going to stick my voice in here, much to the chagrin of some players as will soon become apparent, and say that I'm very disappointed with the inactivity in this game. It doesn't matter what I say or do or what policies I have presented. Inactives need to be flushed or town will lose the game to random voting.
That's all I have to say currently. Carry on.
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On June 25 2010 09:29 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +what the hell does that even mean, not pro-town but no scum tells? last i checked, if you're not pro-town, you're scum. go read team melee micro and read chezinu and i and you will understand there is a difference in being scum and being scummy lol or just read the last page, there's a whole discussion about this currently active. Trace back as needed.
BM you playing in here too?
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The lakrismamma bandwagon sucks. I'm surprised people like ~OpZ~, Amber[Light], and Thegilaboy are voting for this assuming they are actually town. They should know better. +2 scummy points for each of you.
I think LuDwig- is a much better target if you want to go after inactives. There are no modkill rules in place. Though if BM is looking for a replacement for LuDwig-, maybe that'll do. I would agree with the sentiment that it's probably better to try to find red than go after inactives only if we are going to trust that BM is going to moderate inactivity. However, it's really hard to find red when there's 15 pages of game and 21 players, even if 3 of them are already dead.
Considering this game lagged before even getting started due to insufficient interest to fill BM's roster, I'm voting LuDwig- unless he becomes active or replaced, or something sufficiently red turns up.
Also, I couldn't find a deadline for the day. Does it end at 10:05 June 26?
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Ah, I see BM has now posted a deadline in the voting thread. 10:00 June 26
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@Radfield I agree with this plan. It's better than going after straight inactives. Unfortunately at 7 hours there's bound to be some townie who misses out and gets lynched for it if the mafia are keeping an eye on this thread. Still better odds than going after generic inactives.
@Amber I buy that it was a placeholder. I just think it was a bad one.
At any rate, I think that lynching either Amber or Radfield right now is a bad idea. And will probably be a bad idea tomorrow and the next day. Lynching elected leaders in the early game is rarely good. Wasting energy thinking about it this early is far less useful and gives the mafia a place to hide and provide 'activity'. While I opposed the Amber/Radfield ticket, this is not the time to try to drag them down with fingers of suspicion. I'll still give them scummy points if they deserve it though. But then I'll move on.
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On June 26 2010 04:15 Amber[LighT] wrote: I will say this ONCE AGAIN:
IF YOU WERE A DT AND SEARCHED FOR SOMEONE AND DISCOVERED A SHADY CHARACTER.....
..maybe now is the time to come forward?
We can't guarantee you will be safe for another night and we need to get these clues analyzed, especially if you're having trouble figuring out who the characters are.
Considering there is only 4 scum, if you found someone that was a death eater, even Voldemort (whom we can't kill yet), you should definitely come forward. Consider that if you get killed and revealed as a DT (assuming we don't have a second medic that decided to cover), we'll know for sure that that person was Voldemort.
Coming forward will probably just get you roleblocked into oblivion, though. I suspect the death eaters have a great deal of magic at their disposal.
Oh, and consider me half-asking for medic protection again. Though now you can give me just 50% likely protection (if you think I'm town) since there's probably only one medic out there. I advise using an RNG for your final decision on this sort of thing. If a DT shows up, that would obviously be an awesome target for protection too. Lets keep the mafia guessing.
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johnny you have the power of spazzspam
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Along with Radfield's plan, I'm putting my vote on zeks. He was moderately productive day 1 and has been far less productive day 2. I don't know that he's red, but it follows the pattern we're looking for much better than others. I flipped through the total inactives and they honestly are all playing very noobishly. Since zeks has been posting but content since daybreak has heavily slacked, that's where I'm dropping my vote.
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As an additional note, even if I weren't voting zeks, voting Abenson does not fit with Radfield's plan. Going after Abenson at the beginning of the day makes sense to pressure him to talk. Going after Abenson at the end of the day is likely ambush bandwagoning a townie.
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BM, I can't find the post where the ministry of magic banned the word mafia, but I see it has been edited into the OP. When was this put into place?
Also, what is a paranoid gun owner? It's not listed in the rules either. If it's what I think it is, how did he die alone?
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I only questioned paranoid gun owner because PGO dying alone is exceptionally rare. It's usually a pretty good role in the hands of a skilled townie because you get to take down a mafioso with you when they use their KP.
I guess He Who Must Not Be Named personally killed this one. That or someone was giving a serial killer + vet in the same role, though I think the former much more likely.
If rules get changed, please post them in thread as well so we don't have to accidentally notice their addition in the OP.
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The typical definition is PGO kills whomever targets them except for lynches. So if a medic tries to cover the PGO, the medic dies. If a mafioso goes to kill a PGO, the mafioso and the PGO both die.
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PGOs can be mafioso or 3rd party as well, of course.
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A5J wants to role reveal, his logic is flawed. If this happened, don't reveal. A5J gets my lynch vote.
Medics were asked to self protect, so it probably didn't happen anyway. But if medic protected DT investigating Hes, A5J is calling that DT a death eater.
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No, I don't think revealing a medic and a DT for no gain is good for the town.
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Well I guess that depends on the definition of the PGO role which our mod is choosing not to provide to us. Also, even assuming the rest of it, medic could be protecting DT, DT investigates Hes, medic covers DT, HWMNBN hits PGO, assuming PGO has infi shots we still have medic outing DT and medic for no gain.
For one example.
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On June 27 2010 19:39 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 18:12 JeeJee wrote:On June 27 2010 17:19 Roffles wrote:On June 27 2010 17:12 JeeJee wrote: so we killing voldy or what How the hell are we killing Voldy with horcruxes out there? why, i'm glad you asked! i know nagini, we just need to find the hidden horcrux also chez, how the hell did you confuse leglocker with body bind.. O-o c'mon ;P either way draco's good too that was my mistake BM, you can't say things like this. I PM'd you the last time you did this. Now I'm posting. This can't keep happening.
I would post this in a separate thread, but I don't see a general discussions thread that might be more applicable. If there's a better place to talk about this sort of thing, please point me in the right direction.
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@ JeeJee/LM/~OpZ~ shenanigans: I think it would be a good idea to wait untill JeeJee himself confirms LM is Nagini. Who is to say that ~OpZ~ isn't just twisting this whole thing? Remember that lynches occur when majority is hit, not just at end of day. My vote isn't going for a LM into JeeJee lynch untill I hear the words from the horse's mouth.
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I'll keep this short.
The facts: I am town aligned as has been vouched for by jspazz. A hit on me was blocked. I was covered by someone who believes I am town. My action was not roleblocked.
Thus this implies: Amber[Light] is either lying or perhaps some bus driving occurred.
Please read carefully the bus driver role - it switches the abilities between two targets - it is not based on the caster. So if someone did a bus drive on me with any other person, it would have swapped the hit, the role block, and the episky all to someone else.
Well obviously that didn't happen. Amber[Light] did not target me with a role block.
Amber[Light]'s voting has been suspect throughout - I'll let someone else elaborate on this as I'm a bit short on time at the moment to do the digging require to display. If no one gets to it, I'll put something together in four hours or so.
Time to lynch Amber[Light].
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Quick erratum. I just realized that I did mispost. I was writing quickly. I meant to say that I was vouched for by Thegilaboy (2) (prev Subversion).
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I would just like to say that there's something someone could say right now that is not a roleclaim in any way shape or form that would convince me you're a townie. I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet.
Are we going to let Amber[Light]'s lie stand or lynch?
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On June 29 2010 12:43 johnnyspazz wrote: so right now, the only fact that doesn't add up is amber's roleblock? So far as I can see, yes.
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On June 29 2010 12:52 Thegilaboy wrote: Hey YellowInk, why did you vote for AFJ last chance we had? We had a lead on nagini and you voted for AFJ with no explanation? There was an explanation. Please read the thread. I have a clear post associated with each vote and the vote was cast before the nagini lead.
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On June 29 2010 13:15 Thegilaboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 13:07 YellowInk wrote:On June 29 2010 12:52 Thegilaboy wrote: Hey YellowInk, why did you vote for AFJ last chance we had? We had a lead on nagini and you voted for AFJ with no explanation? There was an explanation. Please read the thread. I have a clear post associated with each vote and the vote was cast before the nagini lead. Ah shit, there it is, my bad YI. No problem. This game is a cluster.
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Abenson, I hope you're not pro town. If that is indeed a PM you received, you just got modkilled.
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At any rate, if he really is Leucius and a survivor, glad to be rid of the non townies.
Also of note to put the DT's on a good track, I have a slight pro town read on AFJ right now.
I am currently most curious about ~OpZ~, Jayme, Radfield, and Roffles. I think they would make good DT targets unless someone wants to vouch for these people. And unless the vouch is supremely convincing, I'd still like to see them investigated. Not to discourage any vouchers, I'd like to hear from you too.
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Amber[Light], there is one way I could potentially be convinced that you are town. You need to make a full role claim and you need to do it now: Your name, note all of your abilities (except mason since that gets you modkilled), and anything else of relevance.
Furthermore, if you have knowledge of why I ask this of you and why it benefits the town so greatly, you are welcome to disclose this as well.
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On June 29 2010 13:29 Abenson wrote: I'm probably going to get another mafia temp ban That's if BM decide to modkill me.
Why?
By modkilling me, BM is basically verifying that my PM is indeed legit. Therefore by dying I am basically using modkilling to my advantage, and therefore is breaking the rule for strategic modkilling.
I'm fucked. No you won't. BM's modkill will not count for Qatol's list since this game is not associated with the ban list.
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No need to stress, BM is obviously not here right now. Lets get back to our Amber[Light] discussion or at least something productive.
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On June 29 2010 13:37 JeeJee wrote: what's there to discuss he claims he rb'd you you claim otherwise one of you is lying You say this like there's nothing else to do. How about opinions of ~OpZ~, Jayme, Radfield, or Roffles?
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On June 29 2010 13:52 JeeJee wrote: yink so you're not just a medic, confirm/deny
My spellset would mesh reasonably well with an elected role, but regardless of election will need to remain concealed to keep its optimal efficiency.
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BM, for clarity, how many Death Eaters are still in the game?
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BM you stated at the beginning of the game that there were 4 death eaters. You told us nagini was a death eater. Upon his being slain, you did not say he was a death eater. If you're being deliberately obtuse, just say so and that's fine.
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I am almost positive there is no better target to hang today besides Amber[Light]. That being said, I am open to further discussion. I think that the more this is discussed, the more obvious it will become.
Please note that it only takes 7 votes to lynch someone since there are 12 votes alive in the game. If you want to look at hanging someone else, for discussion's sake just say so rather than voting for them so that Amber[Light] can't use their 3 votes to suddenly lynch.
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On June 29 2010 15:57 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:+ Show Spoiler [anger] +Bill murrary, I'm so pissed at you for ruining this game. You modded like a fucking retard up to now (random roles not listed in the op, wishy washy about rules, constantly making mistakes, etc) but what you just did took the cake. How does it make any sense that both me and whatchamacallit die because abenson dies?
Just for everyone's amusement, I was given a "3rd party traitor" role, where if the # of malfoys outnumbers the number of the rest of the town, malfoys win. This sounded fun, but then I realized that BM had not given me a list of their accounts or even many there were. I had to send him many PMs to try to convince him that there is no point in this malfoy win bullshit if I had almost no way of working towards my victory (how was I supposed to stop them from being killed/lynched if I didn't know who they were?). Finally, yesterday, I convinced him and he gave me the choice of whether I want to have their names or whether I should just be a normal death eater. I decided to be normal death eater because I didn't want their fucking names, I wanted their accounts, and was done trying to make him understand.
Never playing in one of bill murray's games again. How hard is it to mod a mafia game? FFS.
Hope the rest of you kids have fun for the remainder of the game and aren't the recipient of BM's stupidity. I'm sure there will be a lively post game discussion.
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Good morning everyone.
So Amber[Light] is claiming Harry Potter? I think we should give this some time to settle to allow for a counter claim. If no one counter claims, I would consider believing it. It may be that this is just a scum ploy to out the real Harry Potter, but if two AKs can be blocked it makes AL either HWMNBN or Harry. Considering how much town strength we have, unless the real Harry has some super scary info, he should probably go ahead and counter claim this.
I think it's worth giving this some time to allow a counter claim.
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Also worth discussing, if neither of us is scum, who should we lynch?
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Of note, with Mad Eye Moody down, we're at 11 votes, meaning it only takes 6 to hang. I don't know why BM won't tell us how many death eaters are still alive, but I know that my dying and going to night phase is about the worst thing that can happen for town.
So I'm going to propose an alternative. I am able to create a situation that proves beyond all doubt that I am town aligned, but it comes at significant cost to the town. I believe this cost will be less than if I am lynched (though it's pretty close), so I am presenting it as an option. This will at least maintain that it is day so that Amber[Light] can still be lynched.
So if you've voted for me in the voting thread, unvote. If you wish to cast your 'vote' for me, do it here in this thread. Obviously if I am lying and it comes down to the wire, you can still lynch me at the end of the day, but don't let Amber[Light] swing it so easily with the massive MoM voting power.
I'm still not convinced Amber[Light] is truthful about being Harry Potter. But if we become convinced of this we do need to find alternatives to hang.
I don't understand why no one has pointed this out, but if Amber[Light] was placed under an Imperious Curse, the role block could have been targeted elsewhere without Amber[Light] knowing about it. This is what I was referring to here.
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On June 30 2010 04:26 Amber[LighT] wrote: The problem is there was a serious miscommunication between whether Abenson casted an AK curse, and whether protego is affected by expelliarmus.
The question I have for you YI, is are you in fact a medic? Your life is at risk regardless... who are you? I did cast protego last night. If that can't be role blocked for some inexplicable reason, this game is even more ridiculously whack. But I think it's fair to say that protego can be role blocked.
Note also that this is why I asked you to make a full role claim. The only way that this situation could have occurred with you being town that I can see is that you were placed under an Imperious Curse. This means that the Death Eaters already know all your powers since they got to select from them, so you may as well share it with the town. The forcing of a name claim also allows for a counter claim should you be lying scum.
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On June 30 2010 04:33 johnnyspazz wrote: i think its ridiculous to be under the imperious curse without being told by the mod you were It says right in the description of the Imperious Curse that the target will not be aware.
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On June 30 2010 04:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: Amber hush....If yellowink can infact prove he is townie he needs too. If Amber is imperius'd that would explain a lot...BUT that would be bringing in a whole other factor that I highly doubt occured...And Harry was almost completely resistant to being Imperious cursed... I find it unlikely that Harry could be Imperious Cursed. This is why I am not convinced of Amber[Light]'s claim. But... hard to say for sure.
Thus discussion should be open for who else to potentially hang. I think, however, that Amber[Light] will remain the best target even if it's not 100%.
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On June 30 2010 04:39 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 04:36 YellowInk wrote:On June 30 2010 04:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: Amber hush....If yellowink can infact prove he is townie he needs too. If Amber is imperius'd that would explain a lot...BUT that would be bringing in a whole other factor that I highly doubt occured...And Harry was almost completely resistant to being Imperious cursed... I find it unlikely that Harry could be Imperious Cursed. This is why I am not convinced of Amber[Light]'s claim. But... hard to say for sure. Thus discussion should be open for who else to potentially hang. I think, however, that Amber[Light] will remain the best target even if it's not 100%. So you are medic? Who are you? I don't think that mass role claim is the best strategy. At least not yet.
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On June 30 2010 04:44 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 04:42 YellowInk wrote:On June 30 2010 04:39 ~OpZ~ wrote:On June 30 2010 04:36 YellowInk wrote:On June 30 2010 04:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: Amber hush....If yellowink can infact prove he is townie he needs too. If Amber is imperius'd that would explain a lot...BUT that would be bringing in a whole other factor that I highly doubt occured...And Harry was almost completely resistant to being Imperious cursed... I find it unlikely that Harry could be Imperious Cursed. This is why I am not convinced of Amber[Light]'s claim. But... hard to say for sure. Thus discussion should be open for who else to potentially hang. I think, however, that Amber[Light] will remain the best target even if it's not 100%. So you are medic? Who are you? I don't think that mass role claim is the best strategy. At least not yet. Then please post one. I asked for your name, NOT your role. Now please post or I'll let Amber run the death train into your hood. Honestly, I took my vote off you to stall til later, and I'm still not that convinced of your innocence. So please convince me. If I get hung, all will be made clear. Furthermore, everyone who voted for me should then be hung since you denied me the town beneficial maneuver that I have claimed. Be sure that if you want to 'vote' for me to do so in this thread and I will take that under advisement. Threats do not help your case.
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On June 30 2010 04:58 ~OpZ~ wrote: Amber, since you're a jack, you're going to protect me tonight (if you live). Yellowink, if you're a medic, your going to protect me. (if you live).
If Amber lives and I die, he's mafia. If I live in the morning, his alignment should be easily ascertained. Gilaboy, or myself will know.
I say if, because one of you is going to die. Why?
If Amber[Light] really is Harry Potter and I really am town aligned and Harry really did get Imperious Cursed (or BM posts that protego somehow protects against role blocks as AL suggested might be possible), what is wrong with this picture?
What is a jack and how does this protect you?
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On June 30 2010 04:59 ~OpZ~ wrote: YellowInk I'm fine hearing your plan but you're wasting time. Do your town beneficial move. Spazz wants to hear it, amber wants to hear it, I want to hear it JeeJee wants to hear it. What's up with this anxiousness?
None of those people want to 'hear it' unless it becomes necessary. It costs a great deal. I only even brought it up so that should the need arise, we don't need to go to night phase to prove that I am town. I brought it up because with Mad Eye Moody dying to AK, I was at L-2.
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I will confirm that Radfield has investigative abilities that successfully targeted me on night 2.
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On June 30 2010 05:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 05:10 Radfield wrote: I'm Scrimgeour. I can investigate, but I'm not sure if it's any good or not, as my only successful investigation was useless as far as I can tell.
Night one: roleblocked Night two: Yellowink : Came back as this "you bounce on your behind down the street after falling from a window" No clue as to what it means Night Three: roleblocked Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 10:51 Amber[LighT] wrote: For the record: Night 1: I roleblocked Radfield Night 2: I didn't pick a target Night 3: I roleblocked YellowInk
If Radfield had a night action it would have not worked. Regardless, that was the plan I proposed from DAY 1 & I stuck with it. PROOF I AM NOT LYING. The roleblock did not block protego. BM should explain the mysterious spell triangle that NO ONE knew about, even though we had asked about the AK curse on Day 1... How is this proof? It only shows that Radfield was role blocked on night 1, not that you were the one who role blocked. You could have had one of your minions do it - there does seem to be an awful lot of role blockers in this game.
Until BM says something to the effect that protego somehow prevents role blocks, I have to assume that the only way for this to have worked and that you are pro town is that you were under the influence of Imperious. I'm just not finding this very likely.
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On June 30 2010 05:36 JeeJee wrote:actually we don't even need to make it public yink, decode this with ur char's birthday ##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/ZZZZZ WLJSI FOOLK CJKNI UEHIU RKKEN TJJHE JFACV VDRQS LTHWT TSQHC AWKWB BSKUU WROGR AIEKQ SBTFW XJVOW RXJMS GCCKH TFEEN SLJXH LQTWR ASEDK RVAFJ QXLBJ DPBMI KKIZZ YYYYY ##### End encrypted message same instructions as i gave to gila go ahead If you've figured it out, I suppose there's a decent chance that the Death Eaters would figure it out anyway. Yes, I am Neville Longbottom.
I have one other ability beyond episky.
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On June 30 2010 05:44 JeeJee wrote: see, fairly major char ok can we have nameclaims in this order: rad jugan roffles opz jayme
i think that's everyone? Radfield and Jayme have both claimed.
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A note of caution about voting. I am not yet convinced of Amber[Light]'s truth. If 3 people vote for anyone, Amber[Light] can finish the wagon. Yes, that means we would be able to go after AL tomorrow, but with all the suspicion directed on AL, I wouldn't be surprised if AL just went and got that last kill in.
Until we are agreed upon who to target, I would strongly suggest only 'voting' here in thread.
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On June 30 2010 06:05 Abenson wrote: This game is getting more and more epic. Primarily because it's suddenly so much more active.
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I would like to hear from both Jugan and Roffles before ~OpZ~ or anyone else claims. If they don't talk, this is a good place to lynch. We do still have over 24 hours left, yes?
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On June 30 2010 06:24 Bill Murray wrote: expelliarmus does not block protego. abenson did not use avada kedavra
ak > protego protego > expelliarmus expelliarmus> ak
think of expelliarmus as being protoss avada kedavra is terran protego is zerg. That is such a bad analogy because my zerg pwns all. Now I can be convinced of Amber[Light]'s truth.
Sheesh.
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On June 30 2010 07:01 Jugan wrote: wow there's a lot of new content... itll take me a little while to read all of it Well it's been 45 minutes. The end is quick and dirty. We're all claiming and it's your turn.
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Idk, he's been reading for two hours. That's an awfully long time. Maybe he has to confer with his team.
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While I agree with the sentiment, I have a better idea.
Lets assume that whatever story Jugan comes up with is believable. Who do we want to lynch?
Then, when we're down to the wire, we can lynch Jugan or be prepared to lynch the alternative.
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On June 30 2010 10:31 Abenson wrote: Aw man, If I was alive I would totally love to perform the kill.
I'm gonna roleclaim now cuz I have nothing else to do: I'm Draco Malfoy... blah blah.. I actually have unlimited nightkills, but I can only use it on odd nights (not night 1). So I can kill anyone on night 3, 5, 7 etc. I claimed that I'm a 1-shot vig cuz I was afraid of getting killed But I kinda killed myself in the end there =.="
Why are you posting?
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The longer this goes, the less likely I'm going to believe anything Jugan has to say. Even if it was 'believable' if he posted it right now, time passing = stalling = big strike against him when he said he was catching up. "Oh, I had to leave to go to a party" isn't going to cut it for me.
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On June 30 2010 12:05 Amber[LighT] wrote: blah blah if you have a suspect for VM I can verify it. Once we do this we can at least make sure we are or are not trying to lynch him. I don't think we can lynch VM. Is your method of verification the AK? Or do you have some other method?
I don't think it's likely we'll be able to point and say 'that guy is obviously HWMNBN'. Even if we get it down to most likely being one of two people, we'll still probably miss. Is this going to be especially bad?
Right now I'm not happy with Jugan or Roffles. I suspect there's nothing else Roffles can say about it besides 'No really, I'm Aberforth', but that really is a pretty fringe character as far as the story goes.
Consider that pretty much all of the named characters have had a significant impact on the story. The most fringe characters like Kingsley were just needed to fill the role of MoM bodyguard. Charlie Weasley is another fringe, but he at least can potentially fit into the Weasley network somehow. How does Aberforth fit into the game design?
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On June 30 2010 14:50 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 14:32 JeeJee wrote: bill if 2 legilimens investigate same dude r u gonna give us same cluz it depends on who the 2 are. if their skill level is different, yes. it also depends on the occlumens. There's a skill level system in place, too?
Is there anywhere else there is a skill level system in place besides Legil vs Occlu?
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On July 01 2010 00:19 Jayme wrote: I'm pretty sure lynching Jugan is going to show up as townie...Actually im about 99% positive it will. Unfortunately he's not coming into this thread to defend himself and I can't exactly do it on my own without him as support.
He could have just flat out lied to me too but hey who knows. Well it's too late to change anything, he's already lynched. But what do you mean by this?
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Also, we need our DT plan in place before nightfall.
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On July 01 2010 02:33 Thegilaboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2010 01:44 YellowInk wrote: Also, we need our DT plan in place before nightfall. Agreed. There are so many of us (4 I believe) that if we can coordinate a decent plan for tonight, this game will be over in no time. Who are you counting besides yourself, Radfield, and JeeJee?
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Working with what information we have, we appear to have trouble in our midst.
Consider if both Jugan and Roffles are death eaters. I am fairly sure that AcrossFiveJulys was not counted among the 4 start of game death eaters - typically you don't count traitors like that. That means there still needs to be at least one death eater out there. This means someone else has lied in a way that blends well.
I would say to the Weasleys - consider what you know and how you know it. Is there a way there could be a death eater hidden among you?
Further considering that at least one among Jugan and Roffles are town aligned, this leaves enough room for multiples among the JeeJee/~OpZ~ ring to be death eaters. Maybe ~OpZ~ naming Lakrismamma was pure error. When it got called out, they salvaged it as best they could.
I had suggested pre game that a crafty mod could leave a major role out of the initial roster so that it could be given as a safe name. Jayme was on my suspect list earlier and we still don't know what powers Jayme has.
I suggest Thegilaboy investigate Roffles, Radfield investigate ~OpZ~, and JeeJee investigate Jayme.
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@BM I'm a little confused, why is the current voting setup L-1? If everyone who hasn't voted votes for someone else, Jugan is still lynched - in other words, the majority have voted for Jugan. Why are we not in twilight?
@Jugan If you really are green/blue and playing this way, you are being unsportsmanlike. If you're red, it's cool that you're being disruptive and it's a good thing we got our important business out of the way already.
So, if you're green/blue, since BM is sitll letting you talk, you should spill absolutely everything you know (not what you speculate, just what you know).
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On July 01 2010 07:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2010 07:13 YellowInk wrote: @BM I'm a little confused, why is the current voting setup L-1? If everyone who hasn't voted votes for someone else, Jugan is still lynched - in other words, the majority have voted for Jugan. Why are we not in twilight?
@Jugan If you really are green/blue and playing this way, you are being unsportsmanlike. If you're red, it's cool that you're being disruptive and it's a good thing we got our important business out of the way already.
So, if you're green/blue, since BM is sitll letting you talk, you should spill absolutely everything you know (not what you speculate, just what you know). He probably thinks I'm mafia. Lol.... Anyway, no... Gilaboy should investigate YI. Radfield should still investigate me. (Just because I want to see my clue...) Why would you wish Gilaboy to investigate me... again?
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On July 01 2010 08:05 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2010 08:03 ~OpZ~ wrote:On July 01 2010 08:02 YellowInk wrote:On July 01 2010 07:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On July 01 2010 07:13 YellowInk wrote: @BM I'm a little confused, why is the current voting setup L-1? If everyone who hasn't voted votes for someone else, Jugan is still lynched - in other words, the majority have voted for Jugan. Why are we not in twilight?
@Jugan If you really are green/blue and playing this way, you are being unsportsmanlike. If you're red, it's cool that you're being disruptive and it's a good thing we got our important business out of the way already.
So, if you're green/blue, since BM is sitll letting you talk, you should spill absolutely everything you know (not what you speculate, just what you know). He probably thinks I'm mafia. Lol.... Anyway, no... Gilaboy should investigate YI. Radfield should still investigate me. (Just because I want to see my clue...) Why would you wish Gilaboy to investigate me... again? Oh my bad...Then Radfield should investigate you and Gilaboy should investigate me....Kk that clears everything up...I forgot which investigated you for a minute. Haha Oh wait...Radfield said he investigated you...Damn....Hmm....How to figure out this puzzle then...Hold on...Ok...Yea, Radfield def should investigate me...Lol...I'm trippin...Gilaboy should prob look at Roffles... Glad we agree.
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On July 01 2010 08:07 ~OpZ~ wrote: No...gilaboy should investigate me...-_-...Radfield should investigate Roffles... I disagree. And why would you care anyway? Worried that Radfield can find something that Thegilaboy can't?
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Well considering that I thought ~OpZ~ was a death eater anyway and he just got modkilled, I guess alls well that ends well.
The reason I wanted Radfield to investigate ~OpZ~ in particular is because we have a godfather to deal with. Godfathers tend to be in the light and ~OpZ~ has definitely been much more in the light. Thegilaboy's investigation would fail to uncover this godfather role.
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Radfield, with ~OpZ~ dead, at this point I think you should investigate whomever you think is best. Thegilaboy still on Roffles and JeeJee still on Jayme.
Unless BM decides not to modkill for some reason, then still go after ~OpZ~. You never know, right?
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On July 01 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote: How the hell was I modkilled? I linked the post. The Ministry of Magic is going to strike you down.
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I find it interesting that ~OpZ~ is still trying to shake up a good plan. And yes, Thegilaboy. Except when I was going to go to quote the post, I see that it's not a modkill. I'm pretty sure it was a modkill, but the post has been edited, so can't say for sure.
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On July 01 2010 08:27 ~OpZ~ wrote: I was under the impression it had to be bold and in red....
But okay...Well, nevermind guys, lynch YI tomorrow. He's hoping a blatantly obvious townie is killed by a modkill. Lol. Come the hell on, if this guys town he's a dim wit. If you were town, you also wouldn't say things like this. Why? Because even if I were a dim wit, I've been investigated twice (one of which is a manner by which a godfather role would not protect me) and posed that I can demonstrate beyond all doubt (though at great cost) that I am town. To even suggest to lynch me is absurd - a townie would rather force me to 'prove' it if there really were such support that. Should I fail to do so, then lynching would be on the table.
Seriously. Whether you are town or death eater, you're making errors. I hope people aren't wondering why I've been suspicious of this guy anymore. At least before the tells were more subtle.
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On July 02 2010 09:56 Thegilaboy wrote: Ok then, the sun is up. DTs what were your results? I went ahead and went along with JeeJee's plan, and did my alignment check on Radfield. The result came up that he is town. How about the other DTs?
Oh, and welcome to the game Korynne! You didn't believe me when I confirmed his correct investigation of me? Or did you think he was scum who had investigated me and decided to provide the town with information that helped solidify us when we had an active argument?
I really wish you had investigated Roffles. Depending on what the others turn up, even with no info he may still be the best lynch target.
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Wow this thread is dead. I don't want to do much till we hear from Radfield, though.
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I don't understand why ~OpZ~ and JeeJee havn't straight up role claimed. What could possibly be gained by their remaining hidden when the rest of us have our roles exposed?
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On July 03 2010 01:14 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 01:03 YellowInk wrote: I don't understand why ~OpZ~ and JeeJee havn't straight up role claimed. What could possibly be gained by their remaining hidden when the rest of us have our roles exposed? Let me help you....I'm kinda like how Jugan is...Like...in that sorta pickle...Radfield and me were talking earlier about it a few times...I told him not to bother asking repeatedly because I'm not going to answer him. He can either take that as me being secretive, or that I can't. And you've all actually came close to getting it several times, because I fucked up posting. Now...Either you understand why I haven't claimed, and possibly why JeeJee hasn't, or you don't. I can't go into detail about it. -____-;; But I'm not DE and neither is he. Also I will be voting to lynch YInk today. He wanted me modkilled, which is shady behavior at this stage in the game. This is false. Normally at this stage of the game I'd call it a lie, but you've made so many errors in judgment (whether you're town or DE) I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You can name claim. You can't mason claim. Jugan could have name claimed. Jayme could have said, 'I'm Hermione' rather than 'brunette bookworm'. Our mod has been clear about this on multiple occasions. If it helps make you feel more secure, I will ensure that you are lynched for your evildoing ways if you do not claim your name. I'll hold off on voting for you since if you really are town I don't want the death eaters wagoning you.
There's really no excuse for Jugan dying. Jayme could have said, 'No, Jugan is cool, let him be.' Jugan could have done any number of things. You can do the same.
Also, looking through posting history, the vouching has been a bit one way. JeeJee, do you similarly vouch for ~OpZ~ not being a death eater?
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On July 03 2010 01:58 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 20:33 Radfield wrote: Likely confirmed townies at this point: Jeejee Opz Thegilaboy
Checked green by thegilaboy(who may be naive however) Yellowink Jspazz
Others Myself Roffles Jugan Jayme Amber
Presumably Amber and YI will die today, sorting out our current mess. Even if both flipped green(moderately unlikely) it leaves us in a great spot. Mafia with a KP of 1, 3 confirmed townies who possibly all(?) have dt checks available to them, with 5 unknown players. Mafia roleblocker is dead. Either Jeejee or Opz will still have a daykill available to them. There is still a Tree Stump in the game. The survivors and traitors are all likely dead.
Give me a minute to come up with a game plan here, because I think we should be able to wrap this up. How'd I go from likely confirmed to being #1 suspect? -_-...I tried to Daykill AMBER with JeeJee...Would a mafia purposely put himself out there? Oh and remember the Daykill counted as one? Mafia wouldn't try and Daykill unless they would win with it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131008¤tpage=44#876Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 04:05 Bill Murray wrote:On June 25 2010 03:37 ~OpZ~ wrote:On June 25 2010 03:27 Bill Murray wrote: "He also speaks about BM not allowing name claiming (which he does now allow...or doesn't again?)"
I don't mind name claiming if you are not a mason This makes being a mason a liability....what if I was a mason and everyones name claiming? Do I just make up a name or can I say my name and just leave out I'm a mason.... you can claim it only if you have to. for example: you are near being lynched, or someone else is claiming your name. don't worry about the masons Only if I have to....Honestly YInk, you've done tried to get me modkilled once. Lololololololol How about this, I claim and you tell us what your role does? Or my favorite, I claim (possibly modkilled) we lynch you? =D!!! -_- Honestly...Go through the thread...Do you see what i've been concerned with? Do you see who BM is talking to in the quoted text? I shouldn't NEED to, and at the moment I don't need to.... Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 04:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:On June 30 2010 04:41 johnnyspazz wrote:On June 30 2010 04:37 ~OpZ~ wrote: STOP MOVING THE DISCUSSION ELSEWHERE
JohnnySpazz is? Ginny Weasely AmberLight is? Harry Potter Gila is Filius Flitwick DOES ANYONE Else feel like claiming? wait you got filius flitwick from his exchange with jeejee? No I know the passwords to the encryptions, before the roles were revealed. Must I really go on?! Because I'm done with it. All you've shown is that you have access to investigation, not that you're town. If you're death eater, you still have plenty of room to win even assuming all the info you've given up is true. I've quoted you the posts that show you that BM should not modkill you - especially under threat. If he does, well, that'll just be the 5th? 6th? thing that has been disruptive to this game. Hiding behind your fear of random modkill would be an excellent scum play so that you can't be held accountable for your role.
There are only a few people who are 'unconfirmed' as Radfield puts it. You and JeeJee, while you have a good track record for appearing to be pro-town, are among those few. That is WHY you're among the few. But someone here is a death eater and you two have chosen not to claim when you should be. Yes, that puts my FoS on you.
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On July 03 2010 02:01 Thegilaboy wrote:Get ready for another modkill crusade Opz lol
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On July 03 2010 02:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: Lol...YI, I got the ultimate defense anyway. So you can keep pushing for my lynch. I don't mind.
But please tell us who else you feel looks scummy? Lol. Similar to you/JeeJee, I know Radfield has some investigative property, but that doesn't confirm him to be town if Thegilaboy is naive or Radfield is godfather. I havn't been impressed with Roffles' play, but the only way Roffles is DE is if Radfield is DE. This may actually be a more likely situation if you and JeeJee role claim and that claim provides some evidence of your being town.
There is also the possibility that JeeJee isn't vouching for you - I don't recall and can't find any place where he defends you directly. Then I could see you and johnnyspazz or you and Thegilaboy being in it together. We do seem to have too many detectives, though an alignment checking DT is weaker in this setup due to only 3 death eaters being detectable by this.
So you can see why I have great interest in you revealing more about yourself. Since you have the ultimate defense, should I vote for you secure that the death eaters can't take you down? Or do you have more that you are now willing to share?
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On July 03 2010 02:19 ~OpZ~ wrote: I also asked you a few pages ago, WHY ARE YOU SO INTERESTED IN ME GETTING MODKILLED. No one can get you modkilled but yourself. However, as I said in thread, I would not be unhappy with you being modkilled since I think you're death eater. To put it another way, if I were a day vig, I might have shot you on any number of occasions before now.
As for right now, I want you to name claim, not 'get modkilled'. Maybe I'll be convinced, maybe I won't. Either way it's information owed to the town.
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Amber[Light], what do you think of ~OpZ~'s ultimate defense being horcrux?
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On July 03 2010 02:58 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 02:45 YellowInk wrote: Amber[Light], what do you think of ~OpZ~'s ultimate defense being horcrux? Well hypothetically, if I was VM, and Amber was HP, and I did cast Avada Kedavra on him (which I actually did, and have linked on last page), then I think my hypothetical Horcrux is destroyed. =D Oh, and Yink, you're thinking that...two death eaters would have to come out into the open and BOTH of them OPENLY Day Vig someone...Right? That's what you think BM made the game. He made it where two death eaters need to come out in the open just for one kill during the day? Not to mention one of them, according to you, HAS TO BE THE GF!!! -__- You sir, are an idiot. Logic fails you. You and JeeJee could be Bellatrix and Peter. Maybe johnnyspazz is HWMNBN. Since BM has refused us up to date numbers. We really don't know if there are 2 or 3 death eaters left.
If the flavor can be trusted, maybe it is as you say. You and JeeJee are HWMNBN and Peter. If you could kill Harry Potter then claim you thought it was HWMNBN, maybe you'd manage to weasel out of being hung because of 'how much you have helped the town with your investigating'. You've all but claimed mason, so if you got investigated by say Thegilaboy and came up clean, that could be enough to take the game. Or, again, Bellatrix could be hidden in our midst to take the game.
There are plenty of explanations for how you and JeeJee could be death eaters. Since you say you have the 'ultimate' defense and continue to refuse to claim, you're getting my vote now. If you really are town I hope you come to your senses before the lynch unlike Jugan.
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On July 03 2010 05:13 Amber[LighT] wrote: Why don't you just name claim? JeeJee stated they run a joke shop. I don't really care which is which - this just puts them on a particular set. As far as I'm concerned they've name claimed now.
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On July 03 2010 05:41 JeeJee wrote: what i don't get is why they would kill hermione of all people surely they would have been killing DTs unless we're on completely the wrong track and they're enjoying it clearly we must AK one of our confirmed townies right now any volunteers? They did this because they're playing a numbers game. I was highly unlikely to cover Jayme for various reasons. Had Jugan or Jayme spoken up before the lynch, things could have gone much differently.
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JeeJee, you didn't investigate johnnyspazz? Why did ~OpZ~ call him Ginny?
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Here's what we know: (1) Short of some some obscenely game bending magic (eg the real Harry Potter was not permitted to role claim for any reason), Amber[Light] is Harry Potter by virtue of the claim. (2) ~OpZ~ and JeeJee are either both death eater or both toan aligned. They outted nagini, a horcrux death eater, in the early game. (3) Radfield can pardon and has access to investigatory powers. (4) Korynne(Roffles) has claimed Aberforth for which Radfield vouched by cluecheck the following day. (5) Thegilaboy(Subversion) has claimed to be Flitwick vouched for by JeeJee cluecheck. (6) johnnyspazz was named Ginny by ~OpZ~, but in JeeJee's recent clue review did not include a check on johnnyspazz so I am unclear on this point (7) I have been confirmed by all 3 investigators.
It is unclear whether (2) was intentional. If it was not, note that it was Radfield that called them out on it and brought it quickly to a head. This means there is a possibility that either ~OpZ~ or Radfield could be a death eater where the other's actions pressured them into communally slaying nagini.
If we assume there at least two death eaters left, this means either clue checks can be fooled or one among Radfield/~OpZ~ is death eater. If we assume clue checks can be fooled by precisely one among two death eaters, it means that someone who hasn't been clue checked is a death eater along with someone who may or may not have been clue checked.
People who have not been clue checked: ~OpZ~ JeeJee johnnyspazz? (Please clarify this point)
Regardless, this puts us back to square one since it forces ~OpZ~/JeeJee to be death eater.
Therefore I suggest we lynch either ~OpZ~, JeeJee, or Radfield. So now I ask, is there any way any of you can provide evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that you are town aligned? ~OpZ~, what was the 'ultimate defense' you spoke of earlier?
If there are any flaws in the above logic or information, now is the time to poke holes.
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ebwop: Radfield has not been clue checked, though it doesn't affect the discussion.
If johnnyspazz has not been clue checked, team DE could be johnnyspazz plus any non mason if there are 2 DE left, or johnyspazz plus any 2 beyond if there are 3 DE left. The argument falls apart if johnnyspazz hasn't been clue checked. Need clarification.
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On July 03 2010 08:27 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 05:41 JeeJee wrote: what i don't get is why they would kill hermione of all people surely they would have been killing DTs unless we're on completely the wrong track and they're enjoying it clearly we must AK one of our confirmed townies right now any volunteers? radfield or korynne imo Why?
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On July 03 2010 08:44 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +(4) Korynne(Roffles) has claimed Aberforth for which Radfield vouched by cluecheck the following day. did he? can u quote me the post (i hate this lack of all-button)
On June 30 2010 08:40 Roffles wrote: Apologies, just got back from work and dinner and was catching up on reading everything that I missed over the couple of days.
Since Jugan's not gonna claim any time soon, I'll skip him and reveal that I am Aberforth Dumbledore, owner of the Hogs Head Inn.
On July 02 2010 19:23 Radfield wrote: Fear not YI, I investigated Roffles(Korynne) last night. This is what I got back: "You rage about your terrible childhood, but are calmed by fond memories of goats."
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On July 03 2010 10:09 johnnyspazz wrote: so i know radfield got blocked night 1 by amberlight, what did he do night 2? He investigated me, but didn't know what was meant by it until day 3. And he was blocked on night 3.
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Just so it doesn't get lost in the muck (I know they're both not here right now, but will be back soon), I'm waiting on a reply from JeeJee/~OpZ~ regarding if they had checked johnnyspazz. I wouldn't mind having a full list of who they checked by day organized all nice and neatly either.
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I'm surprised no one has been furthering my earlier argument. I'm also surprised at how quiet it is. Today we should be lynching Radfield, johnnyspazz, or one among ~OpZ~/JeeJee.
I think we should not lynch johnnyspazz because we can have him investigated and put him in the same boat as everyone else who has been checked. The real question is if one of our investigators is lying.
There are good ways to proceed after either lynching Radfield or one among ~OpZ~/JeeJee. It's more a matter of who we think is more likely to be DE at this point. I could go either way on this, so lets hear more from the town.
Also, ~OpZ~/JeeJee, is there one among you that you would prefer that we hang to keep your greatest amount of power should the town decide to choose to hang you? You're either both DE or neither, so I would say that hanging either of you suits the town's purpose. I see no reason to take the choice away from you in the case that you're town.
Amber[Light], it may be worth using your special HWMNBN finding power on Radfield since if someone was put up for election, it would most likely be someone who might have godfather like powers. We don't get use of that power if you ever fail to live through the night.
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On July 04 2010 02:45 ~OpZ~ wrote: Amber, do what you want, but you know I'm not a DE. If this is truth, that decides it. We should lynch Radfield.
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On July 04 2010 02:32 ~OpZ~ wrote: YellowInk...I'm voting to hang you if you put mine or JeeJee's name in with any words resembling Death again. People who make arguments like this are especially suspect. I don't blame Radfield, assuming he's town, for calling you a death eater. This choice is mostly up to Amber, though.
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Alright, so if jspazz is the lynch, Thegilaboy should investigate one among (JeeJee, ~OpZ~, Korynne), JeeJee should investigate Korynne(Roffles). If johnnyspazz flips red, we'll be lynching Radfield or Korynne on JeeJee's information the following day to win - unless clue checks can be fooled and the game will still be up in the air. If johnnyspazz flips town, then either Radfield/Korynne or ~OpZ~/JeeJee is the DE team and we act on Thegilaboy's information..
I can't find a way for Radfield's investigation to matter.
What do we think of this?
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On July 04 2010 04:45 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 03:13 YellowInk wrote:On July 04 2010 02:32 ~OpZ~ wrote: YellowInk...I'm voting to hang you if you put mine or JeeJee's name in with any words resembling Death again. People who make arguments like this are especially suspect. I don't blame Radfield, assuming he's town, for calling you a death eater. This choice is mostly up to Amber, though. Actually the reverse is usually true of this, YInk. It's an emotional backlash, which isn't common of scum because the scum try to play more calm and cool. They try to not step on toes. I always play calm and cool. Since most people have probably been able to figure this out about me by now, anytime you see me 'lash' at anyone (which happens regardless of my alignment), it is a calculated effort. That you can choose to defend yourself in this fashion undermines the very emotion of the original outburst. Unless I am to underestimate your skill, my previous statement stands.
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On July 04 2010 05:40 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 03:22 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'm down with spazz for pretty much the same reason....And the fact that he claims he has no role, in a game where so far I think everyone has had a role? then i guess BM just has a sick sense of humor... i have a even better suggestion, why don't you guys AK me so you can actually get a useful lynch This is actually a good idea if we have any AKs. If johnnyspazz is red, it's obviously a victory. If johnnyspazz is town, It would mean we'd be lynching either Radfield or ~OpZ~ but with johnnyspazz dead. We could then lynch Radfield. If town, we have enough votes left no matter who the DEs kill to put away ~OpZ~ and JeeJee. If Radfield is red, then we still have plenty of votes to mess up lynching between Korynne and Thegilaboy even assuming all clue checks got fooled. + Show Spoiler +Note that I didn't include myself in the final split because even with clue checks being foolable I'll still be able to prove myself town to ensure our victory - and when it comes to it you should obviously lynch me if I fail to do so. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has a way to daykill you. Since you probably believe the same, these words give you no credit.
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On July 04 2010 06:22 johnnyspazz wrote: then have amberlight kill me at night? if the town really wants to lynch me, i'll go ahead and vote for myself. I think this works. I will know who to cover based on Radfield's alignment. If town, I cover TGB. If red, I cover JeeJee. It works the same way.
One thing to keep in mind, we still havn't seen evidence of the Imperious Curse. I wonder if it failed to take hold, is buried under things that happened in the past or was otherwise rendered irrelevant... or if we still have to worry about it.
Thoughts on both of these points?
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This is why I said if not going for johnnyspazz we should be looking at Radfield or ~OpZ~/JeeJee. See above analysis. If you're looking at any other target, please counter the argument. I see no way for Thegilaboy to be a better lynch than johnnyspazz in any way shape or form.
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Right now I'm split. Radfield has had good arguments but hasn't weighed in all that often. ~OpZ~/JeeJee have provided a nagini kill, but the more ~OpZ~ talks, the more I think he's either scum or just really, really illogical.
Amber[Light], have you played with ~OpZ~ before? Is he typically this irrational or reckless? I'd be interested in hearing johnnyspazz or Thegilaboy's opinions on this as well. Radfield has conflict of interest.
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Well, it was 9 KST Jul 5, so for us in the US it was 7pm on the 4th.
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Well, for me. Central time. Kick it around an hour or two for your particular flavor of US time.
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On July 06 2010 08:39 Bill Murray wrote: night ends in 20 minutes Are we going to get a day start post and maybe some info - or a statement of lack thereof? We're running like 4 hours late now.
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According to the information I see here, we had already lost at the start of the previous day. The game was over almost a week ago.
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BM, let me first say that it's fun to have a flavorful game even if it's not perfectly balanced or run. I appreciate that you did this for us and I can see that it took a lot of work to both put this together and to run it.
Now I'm going to vent for a moment. Or two. Hopefully the commentary in and discussion following from this post will lead to improved games run by anyone.
It's ok to have some roles disclosed and others not, but it should be clearly indicated in the rules. The 'spell triangle' should definitely have been in the OP since you apparantely told Amber[Light] about it at some point. It's ok to have hidden game information if you're stating in the OP that there is hidden information. I could see the game design being like a couple of the experienced wizards know about the triangle and all the kids don't. You could mix in the spell triangle flavor with the role PMs so it looks like you're just explaining it to the experienced wizards without making it seem like a big deal that they should tell everyone else. Then when someone comes out and tries to explain it (like Amber[Light] did), they suddenly realize they have to convince everyone the truth of it (and the mod does NOT step in). If it's a rule that the mod can verify, it needs to be in the OP.
Majority votes are majority. Fortunately no one changed their mind to make this rule need to be invoked, but still.
Changing rules at the end was silly - you stated it was because you don't like vote races, so why arbitrarily give the victory to the mafia? Obviously mafia would win the vote race because they're organized, there was no need to step in here. Also, that you weren't there to make a start of day post was unfair either way because mafia were sitting trigger happy on their AKs and we couldn't respond with immediate voting. We didn't even know who was alive or dead and since you had set a precedent for days to begin without you present, of course the mafia went ahead and took their day actions. This made it impossible for town to even choose to react should they have the capability to (which we didn't in this case, as noted earlier, the game appeared to already be over the previous day).
Also, self pardoning is crazy powerful - practically unlynchable. You could just as easily have said to Rad that you can't self pardon. Details about elected roles should definitely have been in the OP (such as MoM having multiple votes and number of Gov pardons). They're elected, it's public, it just makes sense for flavor.
Why wasn't I told I was a nurse at the start of the game? Gaining a power and being a treestump made it impossible to soft claim treestump since the OP specifically states that the treestump has no other powers. To the point, when a rule is made, don't break it. Charlie could have been the nurse instead and it wouldn't have broken the game.
Were the Malfoys told they were lover-linked to Draco? Survivor win conditions are already pretty challenging even without something like this. The survivor-mafia thing didn't make sense, though. Couldn't Leucius just give the town the mafia team and claim victory with the town? Or was Leucius expected to both survive and have mafia victory in order to win?
Please don't post things that can possibly affect the game - even DTA got railed for wording something in his game that could possibly imply that a random person was receiving a blue role. It's important to be completely clear that any post you are making is not having an impact on gameplay. Most times mod responses need to any queries need to be kept very short and to the point - if even answered at all. This goes for PMs, too. The majority of the posts (and PMs) that you made that weren't day start/end info contained information that affected my knowledge - some dramatically so. I kept the info out of thread as best I could, but it definitely affected some of my decisions.
Day start and end posts should contain all the information about what happened throughout the night and signify the day start or end all at once. I think you realized that leaking some information throughout the night was a Bad Thing about halfway through, but you still need to post at day start so that we know nothing else happened during the night. Assuming it even mattered, on the last day if we had assumed it started at that 20 minute mark after your post we could have been playing and you show up half way through to say, 'oh wait, no, this guy is dead'. That's just not a fair day start. I might have felt it was fair to assume that I had successfully protected. If I hadn't already claimed, I might have in such a circumstance which would be thoroughly disruptive - it's not like I could take it back once you retcon the start of day.
Why were you so harsh against masons? The only reason I can see was because you included so many of them. This special no-mason-claiming rule would not have been needed if you had instead just not made so many masons. I'm not even sure the rule would have been necessary as is. If all the mason pairs claimed and the mafia stayed quiet, I think there's a decent chance we would have been like, "Wtf? We can't all seriously be masons, can we?" The only problem was that the mafia numbers were so few and didn't appear to have any real room for character claiming any significant roles. We could have just mass roleclaimed at the start and picked off the less important characters. Also, the lack of clarity on when one can claim mason was destructive - I wonder if Jayme realized he could have saved Jugan or if he felt completely bound by the flip flopping of the rules? Same with Jugan. It certaintly created a totally unnecessary argument near the end of the game.
How were Fred/George JOAT and had so many investigations (or were they just making up the DT stories)? Was Amber[Light] or Radfield choosing the bans? I was really confused with our minister being Harry Potter but making bans that made it more difficult for us to communicate. I think the idea of posting restrictions is cool (and I have used them in games), but if this was just to suit your taste and wasn't something being implemented by someone's mechanic (seems MoM power most obviously), that's pretty arbitrary.
A couple things to be careful of especially in theme game design - make sure the game is still about an uninformed majority vs an informed minority. Honestly it seemed like the mafia had little effective force (were only 3 of the mafia able to communicate?) and the town was peppered with masons. Each town mason pair had almost as much communicative power as the mafia!
Also, you want to try to keep the game about sifting the truth from the lies and not just be a role-game. Even if you have a game where there are no vanilla townies (this game basically had no vanilla), you can make the powers watered down for balance. For instance detectives can get information that hints at a character, but isn't precise enough to specifically say who they are. Or a medic who can only protect against certain kinds of hits.
When possible, the endgame should be designed to be the climax. Daykills are really powerful in town hands, but much more so in mafia hands. If the town can suddenly get ambushed by a bunch of AKs, it really shifts the endgame point and gave mafia a huge advantage. I'll admit it did fit into the flavor of this game for death eaters to all have AKs, but consider how much earlier the game could have ended if Nagini had survived (and had AK). If we assume Radfield had 2 pardons and the town has no KP, once we were at 11 players the game would practically be over. If Nagini didn't have AK, same situation at 10 players. In a 21 player game, having 3 mafia survive to this point is not unheard of - especially with the Malfoys in the mix. What's worse is that the game would continue even though the mafia had practically won because the mafia is playing it safe (for medic protection and town daykills). Most game designs instead give limited use KP to town and just give the mafia increased night KP (eg at 3 mafia, mafia KP is 2). Mafia daykill powers are very strong since they can use them right before a lynch if they get caught.
Just a final question for my own personal curiousity, was the busdrive or the imperious curse ever used to any effect?
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On July 07 2010 02:34 Amber[LighT] wrote: @ Bill Murray I don't mean to knock you as a mod. You did a good job but it may have helped if you had a co-mod or two to discuss in-game situations so you get a 2nd opinion about certain actions that may be in the "gray area."
This appears to be a pretty strong community that you can just PM someone who is not involved in the game and just ask for advice. I havn't seen Qatol play, but clearly he's interested in the community and has familiarity with the game and maybe is a good resource for such things.
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