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On May 11 2010 15:06 johnnyspazz wrote:i wish i had read the rules and picked a cool role 
You just needed to contribute more. I was so suspicious of you because you said you had been getting advice from Incognito and then you seemed to be just lurking/agreeing with others and not really posting original thoughts at all. Even if you die for it, at least then the town can go back and try to see if you were onto anything. Oh and don't post in other threads and not this one. Especially not other mafia games. It was just screaming "lurking mafia" to me.
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Oh Ace: a little suggestion if you do this again. There are a lot of players who didn't get a role just because they didn't pick anything at all. This was really really hard on the town. I suggest that if someone doesn't pick a role, you randomly roll a pick for them, just to give them a shot at getting something. At the very least, it gives them the information that the role was taken.
Also, I suggest Mad Hatter being included in the role list. It is too awesome of a role to be left out.
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On May 11 2010 15:02 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread. Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course. On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that.
Oh speaking of which, what style exactly did you think was Qatol-like? You kept accusing me of not acting like myself. (Btw, that is the hardest accusation in the WORLD to refute. How do you prove that you are playing like yourself?)
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On May 11 2010 16:34 Ace wrote:Well I think not PMing people was good in retrospect. If you don't read the thread to see how the game works why should I hold your hand? 
Because it makes the problem that some town players are really bad about keeping track of the thread even worse. Now not only are they screwing up their side by being generally useless in the thread, but they have nothing to offer even from blue roles because they didn't read the thread early on. Also, there seem to have been quite a lot of people confused this game. Caller, citi.zen, Amnesia, Falcynn messed it up; OpZ and Scamp almost messed it up. That's kinda a big deal for the town. 1/3 of our players didn't even have a shot at a role and it was almost closer to half.
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On May 11 2010 17:03 Ace wrote:
I mean looking at the title of the game that should have been an obvious clue.
Then you see the whole deal about draft order...what else would people be doing in a draft? :D
I know it sucks that a lot of the town aligned players didn't read the game but it's unfair for those that took the time to read the thread. There was even discussion about picks for 24 hours after order was revealed so not reading the thread isn't a valid excuse. Everyone had at least 48 hours to get it right.
Yeah I guess you're right. You even mentioned it again in the role PM. Not that much more you could have done. I think I'm just grumpy that so many people still managed to screw it up or at least come close.
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On May 11 2010 18:21 DarthThienAn wrote:
Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>.
After a line like that, you are never going to get away with lurking in these games ever again.
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On May 11 2010 20:21 citi.zen wrote: Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 16:09 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 15:02 citi.zen wrote:On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread. Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course. On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that. Oh speaking of which, what style exactly did you think was Qatol-like? You kept accusing me of not acting like myself. (Btw, that is the hardest accusation in the WORLD to refute. How do you prove that you are playing like yourself?) I just meant that I did not expect you to make what I thought were a good deal of mistakes. Starting with openly telling people what roles to choose. Perhaps these were not mistakes in your view, but to me they were not exactly pro-town moves either. Ace, L and others seem to agree. The invention conversations were another issue. It just seemed like you were trying to control the flow of the game but doing so in a way which could be consistent with what the mafia wanted. So the "style" comment was mostly about consistency and what I thought were mistakes.
I see. Btw people are a bit more split on the controlling the first few roles than you might think. Incognito is telling me that he would have done what I did too. The only role I definitely shouldn't have done anything about was telling Scamp to take medic. That was a mistake. I still think that if we hadn't controlled CompVig the way we did, it would have come back to bite us, especially since the mafia got it. Regardless, I guess I can see what you were trying to say.
On May 11 2010 19:01 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 18:36 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 18:21 DarthThienAn wrote:
Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>. After a line like that, you are never going to get away with lurking in these games ever again. I already admitted I had been lurking in this past game ^^.
Yeah that's what I mean. You made that statement. People will just bring it up again out of nowhere and totally hose you with it in the future if you decide to lurk ever again. Either way, well played. You were definitely one of the better players that I didn't know anything about going into this game.
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Oh I have another question. Early on, I was accused multiple times of having a pretty serious attitude in my posts (though in retrospect, the people who did that were mafia - Zona and Foolishness). Anyways, what part of the posts came off as having that attitude?
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On May 12 2010 04:18 citi.zen wrote:
I thought Foolishness had the attitude too - e.g. the whaa outsmarted post.
Yeah he definitely did. But he always acts like that. That post was nothing new from him. I was more surprised that I was being accused of having a serious attitude. Worse, it seemed to be a way for the mafia to try and chip away at my persuasiveness. So could anyone give me the breakdown so I can try to work on it?
EDIT: People seem to be confused about what I'm talking about, so I'll add in at least the ones referring to it from the archive that I can find. (Sorry I'm being a bit selfish with this here, but I'd really like to try and learn from my mistakes. If anyone else wants input on how they played this game, I'm certainly willing to try and help.)
+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2010 08:43 Bill Murray wrote:
i am much more suspicious of you than scamp, and i am not suspicious of you at all really. the only reason i'm suspicious of him at all is from his stance towards sidesprang. the only reason i am suspicious of you at all is because of your attitude. On May 05 2010 11:55 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote:On May 05 2010 10:39 Foolishness wrote:On May 05 2010 08:59 Korynne wrote:
Also flamewheel it's okay, apparently everyone on the internet is assumed male unless proven. xP
But seriously Foolishness if you are town, you should claim either compvig or not compvig. If I was mafia and I was lying, then I would already know you are not compvig. If I was mafia and telling the truth, and BM is mafia with me, then I would already know if you are compvig. If I was mafia and BM is town, then I doubt BM has the coordination to pull off another townie pretending to be inventor instead of him. If I was town, and mafia knows I'm town, then they know that I'm probably telling the truth, and they will know you and BM's role.
So telling us whether you are compvig or not compvig only benefits town.
So basically, if you claim compvig, everything's okay for now other than wtf why did you steal my role. If you claim not compvig then you and BM are under heavy scrutiny (or at least will be when I am revealed town). Have you not read anything Qatol or I have said about NOT claiming as claiming only helps the mafia? I said in my post, I will claim if it is necessary and bring impertinent information to the town. Right now me claiming does no good, so I'm not going to. You can be upset that you didn't get your role (if you're even telling the truth here), but that doesn't mean you have to force me to claim and help the mafia (but who am I kidding, you already did that yesterday, great job there btw). On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote:
Yay another person trying to "subtly" poke holes in my credibility. Having fun over there with your buddy ~OpZ~?
Why do you care so much about this fact? Why are you putting so much emphasis on YOUR credibility? Nobody other than yourself knows that you are innocent (unless someone checked you or something), and yet you expect us to just blindly believe everything you say? You're sounding more and more like BM as the game goes on. You're honestly expecting everyone in the town to just believe everything you say. Saying this is what is causing me to doubt your credibility, not anything else you say. Furthermore, my paragraph in which I said those things had NOTHING to do with your credibility. It was about people lying in general, and I just picked you as an example. There are huge benefits in this game to lying about what role you got or what numbers you picked, no matter what side you are on (I can clarify this point if need be). I'm trying to raise this point up because people are just believing anyone is saying. At this stage in the game, some things are not adding up right with what everyone is saying. Somebody has to be lying, somebody who's talking a lot probably. There are things left unsaid that need to be answered (what did BM's invention actually do?). Opz wants to kill me and you're calling us buddies? o.O Maybe I want credibility because I'm sick and tired of being ignored? (notice how early I tried to focus on a lynch on day 1 yet we still managed to have a no lynch? People didn't even really argue about it? They just focused on the roles and didn't even worry about the lynch.) (additionally, notice that nobody other than opz has even mentioned that analysis of johnnyspazz - how is the guy this slippery when he isn't even posting?) Anyways, I'm done with this. Just don't stop reading my posts. If you disagree with the logic in them, point it out like Zona did earlier. Dismissing them out of hand or saying that I am expecting you to just follow them does not help anyone. If you aren't persuaded, tell me why. Please clarify your point about why you would want to lie about your numbers if you're innocent. Yeah, after thinking about it, I don't think there's any reason to lie about your numbers, especially now that the draft's far over and we kinda have an idea of who's what. I can be sympathetic of you being tired of being ignored. However first day you were here early, then you just disappeared for a long while, which didn't help your cause (yeah I know you were sick, but if you hadn't been and had been around during this time we'd be in a much different position about you methinks). And contrary, I haven't dismissed any of your posts, more of I'm questioning your attitude. I'm not persuaded because it seems to me you're taking up a BM attitude here: "guys, it's obvious I'm greener than grass, you should listen to me". Frankly, it's not obvious to us (although your constant activity right now helps). That's why I kept mentioning of thinking things from everyone's perspective, and to think of all possibilities, however ridiculous. As for Jspazzz, I will agree on your point that he is filler-posting and has yet to make a contribution of his own. Looking through past games quickly, I'd say he's about as active as during BM's game (a little less maybe) and about as active as during flamewheel's game. Both times he was green. I'll need to look through more games for a better consensus on that. If nobody has any better idea on who the CompVig should kill then we should go with that, especially if Amnesia gets modkilled. On May 02 2010 05:08 Zona wrote:
I'm glad someone's stepping up with the first proposals for the town. Yet once again, in yet another game, I have to take issues with the blind spots in the plan, as well as the "I declare it, thus it must be so" tone and mindset.
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On May 12 2010 09:58 Scamp wrote:
Guess I'll add that to my record of "game changing saves" as a medic, though I dunno if I really want to.
Hey 5 saves in 3 games as medic is still nothing to sneeze at. I just wish you had contributed more in the thread this game.
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On May 12 2010 14:44 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 10:24 Qatol wrote:Hey 5 saves in 3 games as medic is still nothing to sneeze at. I just wish you had contributed more in the thread this game. That may not have been a good thing. I was pretty off this game in terms of my deductions and suspicions.
Why didn't you post more of your logic? Were you just trying not to stand out? You mentioned a few people you were suspicious of (myself and Falcynn), but you didn't really do much in the way of analysis or posting your reasoning.
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On May 12 2010 14:58 Scamp wrote:
I usually don't like to join in unless I have something new to bring to the table. I didn't really have solid evidence on some of my suspicions, and I really liked the conversation you and Radfield were bringing to the table. So I figured my options were to say "I agree," derail it for no good reason for my own suspicions, or watch and contribute strongly later.
I see. I guess it made sense. I was just surprised because you made a comment about a suspect list of myself and Falcynn but then didn't really do much to push your suspects. I guess you just didn't feel you had a strong enough case?
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On May 12 2010 07:46 Radfield wrote:
Qatol, I didn't find much attitude in your posts. I thought you played really well in fact. The only attitude in this game was the occasional aggressive tone from Opz and Foolishness.
I think if there is a Mad Hatter it should definitely still have 2 bombs. Otherwise it's just plain worse then the Meth Man. I was kinda looking forward to picking Meth Man next game if I was high on the draft pick.
Actually, the hatter has one more feature Meth Man doesn't have: if he happens to be lynched, the bomb still goes off. I think the hatter should have 2 bombs too, but I just thought I'd point it out.
And thanks for the compliment on my play. I'm looking forward to seeing how you play in future games.
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EPT
