EPTTL Mafia XXII
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On April 18 2010 02:09 Abenson wrote: Que madness means: "I am scum" in hebrew ##vote: Osmoses Firebat > Zergling. Owned. | ||
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Here's my supergenius plan: lynch the least active player, it's the quiet ones you gotta watch! | ||
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Its really pretty tiring trying to figure out who's what and who and why with such little information, and no clues -_- The only effect assassins have on the town is their votes and their influence, but lynching the right guy seems hard enough already, so if they do sway the vote we might just get a scum anyway... Should we really even be worrying about them? Their night kills, having only 2, will surely be spent on someone they truly believe to be an assassin, so as not to waste them, and the longer the game goes the closer the odds get to 50%. Those seems like good odds. | ||
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Osmoses
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On April 19 2010 07:32 Caller wrote: You're already judging yourself to having nothing to add? Are you kidding? I'm telling you this now: whenever "experienced townies" take control of the town, town tends to lose pretty hard. Say something! We need people to think outside of the box, both in game and for the metagame. What do you have to say? Do you have anything to say? Would you even like to justify your vote for me? Just because some "big name" player with a x000 post count is talking doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Look at me or L for instance. We need inexperienced players to think outside of the mafia box to give us better ideas for gameplay. Say something! I said something and you called me out for being a crap poster. I was trying to figure stuff out, apparently I shouldn't do so out loud. You want clear and concise, how about this: 1. BC entered a game which he seems uninterested in winning and even seems to advocate getting lynched. He is either A) wasting his time or B) reverse psychology scum. 2. Ace and Caller are supposed to know what they're doing but they're shitting all over each other. I suspect at least one of them may be scum. 3. Caller is trying to play the good cop: Just because some "big name" player with a x000 post count is talking doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Look at me or L for instance. We need inexperienced players to think outside of the mafia box to give us better ideas for gameplay. Say something! I had a 4th bullet but I lost my train of thought. | ||
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On April 19 2010 13:53 Incognito wrote: Time to pull out the accusation gun. Osmoses: This is his first real post. He plays the I'm a newbie card, and proceeds to ask a question that is already being discussed. No contribution here. He also makes preemptive excuses for his posting, emphasizing that he is a newbie, but...you get the picture. Check out TL Mafia V for an example of Tricode pulling the same stunt. From experience, new pro-town players would not try to emphasize their newbiness, as it adds a burden for the town. On the other hand, new mafia players tend to use this to excuse their useless behavior. Panic usually sets in and they try to play the im confused card. More confusion. How ironic. Anyway...Ok...So its tiring trying to find out who is who...but you haven't said anything yet about what you HAVE found out. Oh you also say there's little information to go on? Yeah I'm sure its very tiring to look for information that's not there...in which case you might as well just have given up. Oops! Well, if you're so tired trying to information, surely you must have found at least something. Spit it out. We want to hear it. Again with this? I'm really sorry, but I AM a newbie and I AM confused, I don't know what to say. I'm just trying to be active and participate, but I don't know what to look for or what angles to analyze from. :/ But in my defense, in the first post you quoted I was giving what I thought was a pretty rational opinion on the double lynch and in the second post I personally thought I was being helpful, sorting out the assassin roles. The point I was trying to get across was that we shouldn't be focusing on them, spending all our time trying to figure out how to get them to work in our advantage seems pretty wasteful to me. How is this not an honest attempt at contribution? But alright, let me tell you exactly why I think BC and Zona are suspicious: On April 18 2010 05:16 Zona wrote: Wait, what? You claim to be one of the "big names" and you are already giving yourself an excuse for low activity? Seems like a convenient excuse so you produce fewer chances of slipping up and revealing yourself if you were mafia. While this might seem a perfectly reasonable argument, in fact I'd say it might've been one of the reasons I suspect BC, but the fact that it comes from Zona and is directed at BC is what made me suspicious. Both are supposedly veterans who ought to be at least decent at hiding their agenda, but Zona is accusing BC of taking a backseat because he's afraid he'll screw up. It just struck me as an odd way to start, too agressive, and seemed like a mock fight to direct attention away from Zona. Are you kidding? You really think that in a game where most players cannot PM, someone would both be able to PM and DT check? As well - all the roles have been revealed in the game, none of the abilities are hidden. Why would you even consider that DTs would be able to PM as well? Detectives need to target players with the aim of finding mafia in a game with no out of thread communications with fellow players. Why? With no out of thread communications with fellow players the usefulness of finding a fellow town player is greatly diminished. It probably isn't a good idea to claim detective early in the game unless you're close to being lynched. If the town already has some suspicion on someone you have checked to be mafia, you should keep up the pressure. However, early in the game it'll be difficult to go after someone you found red if the rest of the town isn't suspicious of them, so keep your result under your hat and pay attention to what this person does, and later on see if you can identify this person's teammates, or go after them once they create more suspicion upon themselves. If the town is getting killed off and is approaching a loss, AT THAT POINT you probably want to claim if you've found some red. You may also want to be more aggressive in going after someone if lynching that person would take mafia numbers from odd to even, which will reduce their KP by one (a big deal in a game such as this). OK, this seemed at first like a bunch of weird jibber jabber to me. First of all BC is a veteran but didn't even bother to read the rules, which is what Zona immediately jumps on. But lets be honest, do you ever read a manual unless you can't figure something out? I never do, and I'm guessing BC simply didn't bother either because he assumed something or because he couldn't be assed, either way, how is lazyness a mark of scum? His whole attack was just stupid, he's basically jumping on BC for not knowing the rules and their implications. He's grasping at straws, trying to find any reason to jump on BC. This seemed a scummy move to me. Curious. If medics do what you instruct them to do, then if any of these players are town, it makes them easy to kill at night and easy for the mafia to deprive the town of their ability. But actually from my point of view the only player on this list that I would really try to keep around if town would be Ace. I haven't seen Caller being particularly useful as a town player, nor you, especially in this type of setup. You seem to be strongest in games where PMs are allowed, even your plans contain hopes that DTs are able to PM. The "build a town PM circle and then DT-check/confirm everyone" strategy doesn't work here, and at least from my view that seems to be your strength, rather than people analysis. In fact in past games as a prominent pro-town player you've heavily advocated lynching players who ended up being town when you couldn't rely on DT-checks and other ways to confirm. This was the only reasonable argument he made, and the one reason I considered whether Zona wasn't just being stupid in his other posts and had a lucky brainwave here. BC is playing the benevolent veteran, but he's overdoing it, like a big Santa Claus, and this along with the very next part of the above quote: Let us live or die based on actions. Our deaths will take a bit of experience out of the town, but if we are red and survive, we will be caught very very quickly and offed by town from it. is what really got me wondering about BC. Live or die based on actions? Who's actions? The mafia's obviously, as they're the only ones the medics can protect them against (if I understood their role right). And then he says "if we are red and survive, we will be caught very very quickly" so what was the PROBLEM!? His whole strategy is one big oxymoron. And basically, as he suddenly appreared very scummy, I started having second thoughts about Zona, though if they're working together that might've been their plan. Third option is BC had a short cirquit and Zona jumped at the chance of getting something of actual merit to accuse him with. And lately I've started to suspect Jugan. To be perfectly honest, I have no good reasoning for this, he's just being really annoying and I'd take any excuse to get him the hell out of here. -_- Also, Radfield, please don't insult me by saying I was jumping on Bill Murrays bandwagon, because imo its a failtrain, I honestly thought his assassin strategy was a joke. In conclusion, I'm with RaGe on the whole FoS thing, can we at least wait until we have some semblance of information before we lynch people who are at least active and participating? By all means if you wanna point the FoS at me, do so, but have some merit to your arguments, don't just lynch me for trying to be useful. | ||
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Osmoses
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On April 20 2010 11:01 madnessman wrote: Meh, I think this is worrying in that I doubt there are many assassins in this game. So if town+mafia end up accidentally killing all the assassins save one, I'm guessing that one assassin wins and game ends lol. Game doesn't END if an Assassin wins... right? I thought the Assassin won and the game continued for the rest of the players. Also, I dunno if jpak being an assassin was good or bad, but it is definitely funny. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
Caller, all your arguments still stem from what you would have done if you were mafia. Is anyone here saying that Caller is surely pro-town? I'm not saying you're definitely scum, but you definitely do not come off as pro-town to me. So far all you've done is sow dissent and point fingers, and when you attack RaGe and he doesn't go apeshit that somehow translates to surefire scum? Do you have to be a hothead to be mafia? Maybe RaGe's gameplan is more complex than "if someone says something that I find fishy in any way, I must call that person out as scum." That's your gameplan, and I don't think it's working. Please stop congratulating people for making your suspect list, it doesn't seem to be particularly difficult. Anyone else think maybe he's doing this on purpose? I can't follow his logic. The only one I would say I'm sure is town is tree.hugger, he's clear, conscise and has intelligent things to say. As for Zona, can we get a statement? Your recent absence aside, the automatic archives is awesome, much props. Cynan, you were pretty active at first but lately (like, your last 10 posts) you've been very tight-lipped and short of words. I think it would be good to see more than a oneliner the next time you post? KF91, going through your posts I agree with most of what you say, but then, When it reaches Day 3 or so (We would have about 10 less players than right now), I think it would be more manageable for me to start analyzing and accusing people. Just what you'll be doing for the first two days. Participation is low as it is, it seems to me we can use every voice at this point. | ||
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I'm onboard with lynching/vigikilling BC. If BC comes out town we'll know who needs to die next  Medics, you know what you need to do, think like scum on who to protect. Ace and RoL are obvious choices, but the reds might think so too and go for someone else. There's really no obvious choice in that regard. Incog doesn't seem to be blue, I'm not seeing anything that looks like inside knowledge on his part, but as a townie with intelligent things to say (if he's not just a clever scum) he's still pretty valuable. | ||
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If everyone role claims now, does that really help us? What's stopping mafia from role claiming too and confusing us to hell? We don't know how many blues there are and as previously stated confirming role checks takes at least 2 days (check, kill, confirm). Suspicion that a character once thought trustworthy may not be trustworthy! | ||
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On April 26 2010 05:08 Korynne wrote: Uh Osmoses are you just trying to be confusing with that last line in your post? Also BC was checked by RoL, not Ace. >.> Ace caught a mafia today... *disregarding your post and analysis until you learn to read* [Checked through Osmoses' posts, this one doesn't seem inconsistent other than like 2 pieces of misinformation] Hmm oh yeah, forgot about that. The last line was just my way of sharing a funny youtube vid. | ||
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Sweden5302 Posts
On April 26 2010 07:03 d3_crescentia wrote: I was hoping you'd come back and post something that would be a bit more thought out, but alas - my hopes were dashed, and you're going to have to go on my super special awesome list. First of all, I'm not entirely sure we should actually double-lynch anymore. We don't seem to have any candidates; after tonight's deaths we will have SOME additional information to work with but I'm not entirely sure if it's ideal for double-lynch. Secondly, we have some pretty accurate information already about whatever blues we have left in the game - 1 Medic and 1 DT (Ace), likely no more Vigilantes/Hatters and MAYBE a Veteran. The point shouldn't be to individually check everyone but to narrow down our list of suspicions and hammer those people. We can potentially solve conflicting blue claims by double-lynch; then we can narrow down between our jpak list and those that claim townie. What happens if it draws out our medic into the open (assuming he/she survives tonight)? Tomorrow we'd look at an 11-6 situation knowing two people are clear at the very least. Ace has been pretty good at finding scum but at this point we need to watch who's pointing fingers and who ISN'T pointing fingers at whom. This is the kind of approach that I was thinking about taking in regards to analysis, but I've been holed up in bed for most of the day, and there's actually a good amount of time before the next Day comes up. I seriously don't have time for this (I got the job, yay!) but guh, analyzing 16 steps down from me, d3: Uuuuh, OK so posting stuff that's not brilliant is scummy, obviously I can't be that I'm either lazy or unable to provide an in-depth analysis at the time of writing. True enough we don't have any sure-fire candidates to lynch, but look at the townie numbers: we're dead if we don't do something drastic. It's like when the clocks running out on a losing game in hockey and they replace the goalie with another player; you take a shot at winning by risking to lose harder. If you want to get better evidence against someone before lynching, you better hurry up. I call suspicion on d3 for going against this very obvious hockey-logic. This reads to me like an attempt to slow down the town. Sure the risk is great, but we're one foot in the grave already. Are you a helping hand or a mailed fist? (props to anyone getting the reference) We can be fairly sure that we have some blues left, this much is obvious, what are you getting at here? The truth of blue claims will become evident in the course of the game, the way I see it anyone can call blue (that includes townies that want to draw fire as well) and Ace could've either wasted a rc on him/her (dead now I see so moot point) or you can make an assumption on the credibility of that person based on post history. I'm not blue, but if I were a medic I would've protected Ace as he was a high priority target (due to his bonafide rc's) if nothing else then to make the mafia waste hits on him. But wifom and all, you never know how they're gonna think so you could protect anyone really, they might as well go for the least likely target on account of it probably not being medic blocked. Mafia want fast kills before enough people have died to provide decent information, but they also want to kill off trustworthy outers. It's anyone's call who the medic should defend, tell me again how he/she would risk getting drawn into the open? We're checking who's pointing fingers, but also who's not pointing fingers. That's everybody. It doesn't matter where the fingers point as the mafia are probably mixing in some accurate accusations with their fabricated ones. No offense, but are you perhaps being purposefully useless? My verdict: shit, I don't know, I know from personal experience nonsensical posting doesn't necessarily mean mafia, but this isn't d3's first game, is it, so he ought to know better. | ||
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I think for a game like this to work, you'd need fewer people and a "1-decent-post" per day minimum requirement. Decent being something like 2-3 paragraphs. I feel like the mafia had a much too easy time. I was pretty absent for the latter part of the game on account of my new job (yeah that wasn't a ruse, I really did get a job :p) but I think I might've still had a better participation average if I hadn't had to analyze over 30 people. It was too much work to do just for fun. I mean in this case I was a mafia and I wasn't supposed to help anyway, but even making false claims turned out to be a real chore sometimes. Just my two cents, thanks alot to flame and quatol for hosting, to incognito and infi for pre-reading my useless posts before I posted them and to TL for providing a playing field. I might join for another mafia down the road when I have more time. | ||
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