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TL Mafia XXII - Page 48

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Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
April 20 2010 22:33 GMT
#941
On April 21 2010 07:27 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 07:25 Ace wrote:
oh damn I didn't see it. Ok sure why not? How much you bidding?

all-in


I caller your all-in.
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 20 2010 22:34 GMT
#942
On April 21 2010 07:33 Jugan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 07:27 Caller wrote:
On April 21 2010 07:25 Ace wrote:
oh damn I didn't see it. Ok sure why not? How much you bidding?

all-in


I caller your all-in.


I jugan your caller.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
April 20 2010 22:34 GMT
#943
On April 21 2010 07:21 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 07:20 Ace wrote:
Man I'm so awesome. Found scum on my first try.

almost as good as L in pinning the godfather mayor

Works EVERY TIME.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
April 20 2010 22:37 GMT
#944
On April 21 2010 07:34 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 07:33 Jugan wrote:
On April 21 2010 07:27 Caller wrote:
On April 21 2010 07:25 Ace wrote:
oh damn I didn't see it. Ok sure why not? How much you bidding?

all-in


I caller your all-in.


I jugan your caller.

I Rage.


OHSHI-
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
April 20 2010 22:42 GMT
#945
On April 21 2010 05:37 Falcynn wrote:
Wait...so Caller's argument against Rage is that Rage is way too calm in his defending of himself and as a result must be mafia? I realize I'm a total noob and am probably being premature with this but I'm giving a FoS (am I using this term right? just looked it up on that mafiascum wiki) to Caller, because it seems like he's purposely trying to sow discord with these "rules" he's using to spot mafia.

Then again, as stated, he is a way more experienced player than me, but I still don't see the logic in the way he makes some of his accusations.


No, you are right that there is a lot of strange reasoning in Caller's post.

I don't remember him using these sorts of arguments in past games.
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
April 20 2010 23:10 GMT
#946
On April 21 2010 07:42 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 05:37 Falcynn wrote:
Wait...so Caller's argument against Rage is that Rage is way too calm in his defending of himself and as a result must be mafia? I realize I'm a total noob and am probably being premature with this but I'm giving a FoS (am I using this term right? just looked it up on that mafiascum wiki) to Caller, because it seems like he's purposely trying to sow discord with these "rules" he's using to spot mafia.

Then again, as stated, he is a way more experienced player than me, but I still don't see the logic in the way he makes some of his accusations.


No, you are right that there is a lot of strange reasoning in Caller's post.

I don't remember him using these sorts of arguments in past games.

do you remember me using any arguments in past games/
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
April 20 2010 23:14 GMT
#947
I remember you going AFK as mafia when you got nuked after claiming a third world nation iirc
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
April 20 2010 23:18 GMT
#948
I remember you claiming mafia when you were the mafia
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
April 20 2010 23:20 GMT
#949
On April 21 2010 08:10 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 07:42 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
On April 21 2010 05:37 Falcynn wrote:
Wait...so Caller's argument against Rage is that Rage is way too calm in his defending of himself and as a result must be mafia? I realize I'm a total noob and am probably being premature with this but I'm giving a FoS (am I using this term right? just looked it up on that mafiascum wiki) to Caller, because it seems like he's purposely trying to sow discord with these "rules" he's using to spot mafia.

Then again, as stated, he is a way more experienced player than me, but I still don't see the logic in the way he makes some of his accusations.


No, you are right that there is a lot of strange reasoning in Caller's post.

I don't remember him using these sorts of arguments in past games.

do you remember me using any arguments in past games/


Yes.
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
April 20 2010 23:28 GMT
#950
On April 20 2010 04:46 Bill Murray wrote:
seriously 10 games and not red
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
April 20 2010 23:36 GMT
#951
im seriously getting fed up with people accusing me every time im green. how am i ever going to get to be a better player when all u all do is kill me?
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 20 2010 23:40 GMT
#952
I'm not concerned about RaGe, his arguments are solid. I'm more concerned about Fulgrim, JadeFist, nbtnbt5, love1another, and motbob, all of which have barely participated at all. Are you too busy huddling around a round table at your italian restauraunt?

Caller, all your arguments still stem from what you would have done if you were mafia. Is anyone here saying that Caller is surely pro-town? I'm not saying you're definitely scum, but you definitely do not come off as pro-town to me. So far all you've done is sow dissent and point fingers, and when you attack RaGe and he doesn't go apeshit that somehow translates to surefire scum? Do you have to be a hothead to be mafia? Maybe RaGe's gameplan is more complex than "if someone says something that I find fishy in any way, I must call that person out as scum." That's your gameplan, and I don't think it's working. Please stop congratulating people for making your suspect list, it doesn't seem to be particularly difficult.

Anyone else think maybe he's doing this on purpose? I can't follow his logic.

The only one I would say I'm sure is town is tree.hugger, he's clear, conscise and has intelligent things to say.

As for Zona, can we get a statement? Your recent absence aside, the automatic archives is awesome, much props. Cynan, you were pretty active at first but lately (like, your last 10 posts) you've been very tight-lipped and short of words. I think it would be good to see more than a oneliner the next time you post?

KF91, going through your posts I agree with most of what you say, but then,
When it reaches Day 3 or so (We would have about 10 less players than right now), I think it would be more manageable for me to start analyzing and accusing people.

Just what you'll be doing for the first two days. Participation is low as it is, it seems to me we can use every voice at this point.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
KF91
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Canada221 Posts
April 20 2010 23:47 GMT
#953
Well I have been regularly reading through the thread and giving my opinion on the events that have been happening and what I think about people. But as you can see, there's really nothing to touch upon at this moment (Read this page and the last; it's mostly random spam that does not contribute to the game at all).

What I was referring to with my Day 3 analysis, is that I will be able to provide an analysis of each player (Maybe I'll split it up into two posts, first half of people on the first part of Day 3, then the rest on the second part of Day 3, I really haven't planned it out yet) so it will help the town accuse and maybe even decide who we should lynch.
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
April 21 2010 00:00 GMT
#954
On April 21 2010 08:47 KF91 wrote:
Well I have been regularly reading through the thread and giving my opinion on the events that have been happening and what I think about people. But as you can see, there's really nothing to touch upon at this moment (Read this page and the last; it's mostly random spam that does not contribute to the game at all).

What I was referring to with my Day 3 analysis, is that I will be able to provide an analysis of each player (Maybe I'll split it up into two posts, first half of people on the first part of Day 3, then the rest on the second part of Day 3, I really haven't planned it out yet) so it will help the town accuse and maybe even decide who we should lynch.


A good way to mark yourself as not credible is announcing that you've only read the last two pages and then saying you won't be doing anything until the 3rd day.
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
KF91
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Canada221 Posts
April 21 2010 00:04 GMT
#955
On April 21 2010 09:00 Jugan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 08:47 KF91 wrote:
Well I have been regularly reading through the thread and giving my opinion on the events that have been happening and what I think about people. But as you can see, there's really nothing to touch upon at this moment (Read this page and the last; it's mostly random spam that does not contribute to the game at all).

What I was referring to with my Day 3 analysis, is that I will be able to provide an analysis of each player (Maybe I'll split it up into two posts, first half of people on the first part of Day 3, then the rest on the second part of Day 3, I really haven't planned it out yet) so it will help the town accuse and maybe even decide who we should lynch.


A good way to mark yourself as not credible is announcing that you've only read the last two pages and then saying you won't be doing anything until the 3rd day.


I did not say that I have only read the two pages; I just stated that the past two pages have been full of posts that are almost useless.

At the same time, I did not say that I won't be doing anything until Day 3. If you have read my posts, you could see that I have tried to contribute to the ideas of the town by giving my own input with regards to what has been happening. All I stated in my post is that I will be able to give a thorough analysis of every player in the game when it reaches Day 3, because at this moment, there are way too many players, and not enough time on my side to invest into a "project" like that.
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
April 21 2010 00:21 GMT
#956
On April 21 2010 06:29 KF91 wrote:
In a normal situation, a mafia (More the inexperienced mafia) that is being blamed would feel more nervous and therefore would post short, erratic posts trying to defend themselves. But what Rage has been doing is almost the complete opposite of that. His posts are composed well and I think that he defended himself correctly.


What do you think about Osmoses? If I use your rule of thumb...it seems as if Osmoses would be likely innocent. However, I don't feel satisfied with the idea that Osmoses is innocent...

On April 21 2010 06:29 KF91 wrote:
Also Caller, the whole 3rd/4th to bandwagon theory. I'm not going to argue about the fact that it happens 75% of the time, but currently it looks like that's all the basis you have to be suspicious of people (Most recently, of meeple). Although his commentary on the lynch should be analysed more throughly with previous posts and posts to come, I don't think your points 1 and 2 should really play into a basis of suspicion. Shouldn't posting behaviour be considered more important than the order of votes casted for a lynch?


Actually meeple is a fairly suspicious character imo. Let me go back through his archived posts and check. Ok, useless posts, followed by attacking BC's plan/idea. Not really pro-town, but not suspicious yet either. Oh noes. Next post he defends BC. Not sure how much we can read into this. But flip floppiness is kinda pro-mafia. Then he ignores BM, cool. Advocates anti day-3 double lynch policy. Ok, fine I guess this is a justifiable position. There are plenty of people who have advocated this position in the past. Regardless though, traditionally usually have a decent amount of information in our hands by day 3. Yet meeple arbitrarily assumes that we won't have enough info by day 3.
On April 18 2010 06:50 meeple wrote:
I don't agree that Day 3 is a good time to use the lynch... we still won't have tons of info by then.

Really? Well why don't you try to make generate this info then? Seriously info doesn't just pop out of nowhere into your hands. Seems to me like meeple has no intention of attempting to get information. He inherently assumes that not enough will be available. Oops! Also, another thing to note about meeple's posting is that if you look at all of meeple's posts as a whole, he is always reacting. He is always responding to what is going on immediately in front of him. Not going through or trying to analyze other players as a whole. Strike two! Well, before I write him off on that, meeple: start trying to dig up and analyze real information instead of just responding to what is immediately in front of you please..

Continuing, meeple finally decides to respond to the BM incident, complains about inactivity, and jokes around. Casually mentions a bandwagon (not certain if this is an anti-bandwagon stance, but I assume it is?), and then in the next post jumps onto the jpak wagon. Talk about hypocrisy. Next several posts are trash, and then he comes up with a medic list. Cool. It looks useful. Unfortunately, infundibulum already made one of those. He was probably ignored, but oh wells. At least meeple leaves Ace (Detective?) off the list, and adds some people to the list who aren't really worth mentioning. tree.hugger? Foolishness hasn't been useful, and hobbes is a big WUT? Why does meeple also ignore Zona and d3_crescentia from his list? Shady and poorly thought out list at best. Next he defends himself from Caller. And now he will have to defend himself from me. Better come out and explain yourself before I explain your situation for you (well, I already did). (Note to inactives, don't think that I'm going to give you the same treatment as meeple and let you defend yourselves. The difference here is that at least meeple is being active. He gets a few more bonus tolerance points on my list than you guys do).

Oh also I'd like you to come out and explain your choices for your bizzare medic list.

Ah yes JadeFist. As BM (and Radfield) have kindly pointed out, you can't change your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon. Seeing as you change your vote, don't post in the thread, and blatantly break the rules, you're have some serious business against you. Not only that, but you're already a shady character. Don't worry, I won't ask you to come out here and defend yourself. I might listen if someone else tries to come and defend you though.

On April 21 2010 06:54 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2010 10:25 ZBot wrote:
AcrossFiveJulys

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 16 2010 15:24 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Sign me up yo


On April 18 2010 08:06 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 07:58 madnessman wrote:
On April 18 2010 07:42 d3_crescentia wrote:
2) BC, we can't establish DT circles in this game because there are no PMs allowed, so this strategy seems pretty invalid as well.
I've already brought this up, and BC has replied.
On April 18 2010 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On April 18 2010 06:12 madnessman wrote:
On April 18 2010 05:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On April 18 2010 05:36 Zona wrote:
Hah, as I post you I see that you are still making arguments based on the idea DTs can PM. Confirmed townies are somewhat useful in a game without out of thread communications, but are a LOT LESS USEFUL THAN FINDING MAFIA. When a town member has to be publicly confirmed, the value is a lot less.

I would like you to elaborate on your "town circle" idea in this game where no town members have the ability to PM. If you truly believe you are right and I am wrong, you should have no problem explaining how it would work to benefit the town.



If you are unable to figure out how a DT can create a town circle by clearing townies in this format I have no inclination to tell you. IT IS INSANELY EASY. Dropping mafia down to a list of x people is alot easier than sacrificing a DT for one red. As hey, I doubt we have 1 dt for every red. Remember, with millers around a checked red is never a confirmed red. Whereas a checked green or blue is more likely town as only 1 gf is alive to infiltrate. Assassins show up as what they are.
I would have to agree with Zona and say that it seemed pretty clear cut to me that nobody besides mafia are granted the ability to PM. It'd be really complicated and confusing. If you're a special blue role (say DT), and you PM a green role, he/she would be unable to respond. If you PM a red role, is the mafia member allowed to PM you back? Mafia are given the ability to PM, but that's assuming it's for use within their own mafia circle to choose their hits. And then mafia would know you have a special blue role.. If you PM a fellow blue role, you may only start your town circle if he/she has also been granted special PMing abilities. So basically, you'd be PMing people based on a hunch that they are blue, and I suppose there's a decent chance that you end up PMing a fellow blue if you're good at behavioral analysis. But then he/she might not also have the special PM ability. And just by PMing somebody, you're giving away information that you have a special role. So yeah... flamewheel creating special PM abilities just seemed very unlikely and too complicated to moderate.

Either way, I think Zona has cleared it up that forming town circles are impossible since town-aligned players don't have PM abilities. So I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing in the quote above o_O.


You do not need PM's to form town circles. Seriously. Only the Dt's can form the circle effectively. I make reference to if they have the ability use it. If not you play without it, its pretty simple. In this game, with 38 players there will be anywhere between 2 and 4 dts most likely, lets for this argument say there are 3. Those 3 are able to form a circle easily. Hell, even greens can form a town circle with a bit of work, but it takes alot more work on their part than dts.
I interpret this to mean that BC thinks a good plan of action would be for DT's to garner a list of confirmed townies/blue roles, and then post them publicly so as to create a 'town circle'. I've personally always thought that 'town circle' implied private communication, but I guess I'm mistaken... The thing about this plan is that it would require the DT to roleclaim later on in the game. Sure, by putting him/herself in the public sphere, medics will know who to protect. But with mafia role blocker and assassins, I don't know whether the town and DT will necessarily be in a better off position because the DT can't have guaranteed protection. I agree with BC in that there are definitely pros to knowing who the DT has checked, so mad hatters/vigils don't hit the wrong people, and DT's don't waste hits checking people who have already been checked, etc etc. But I don't want to sacrifice a DT for the sake of knowing 2-3 confirmed townies. I guess the DT should see first what roles he is able to collect from role checks, and determine whether he thinks his information is worth the risk of RCing (eg. if he has found mafia, he might think it more important to publicly share his list with the town)...


DTs should of course show discretion on when they RC in order to post their list, but they have to do it at some point, otherwise what good are they? One person's non-RC'd opinion probably won't be able to sway the town to lynch mafia/not lynch townies, especially when there are no clues.


On April 18 2010 12:31 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:

The first half of the list is required to assassinate the 2nd half of the list. The list will be inverted the next day so everyone will get their turn to kill someone if they are an assassin. They won't want to be using their kills up every single night anyways, as they can use a Detective Check on the alternate night. I will be cutting the game list into a 1/2 order. 1s are killers, 2s are killees. It will switch the next night. If you are a killer or a killee, don't complain. In all likelihood you won't have to kill or be killed, as we are not sure how many assassins there are. If the mafia kill a killee in the night, we skip a lynch to balance it (hypothetically), but if they kill a killer then we will lynch the killee of the person that they killed the killer of. I hope this is making sense to you. If anyone has any questions about the Bill Murray plan of town success let me know. This plan will help the town as it will be putting mafia players in vulnerable "killee" positions in which they would potentially lynch the "killer". We use the assassins to win as a town. They COUNT as town people, so assassins will want the town to win. It will also be giving them chances to win the game for theirselves through killing other assassins and finding assassins that they can kill at any time during the night that we aren't asking them to kill for us. If they find an assassin, they can breadcrumb a message to us previously or something to let us know BEFORE they do the action that they will be killing an alternate person (this will guarantee that they stay town as we let them go towards their goal while we go towards our goal together). I don't want assassins to claim at first, but it will become obvious after the first 2 cycles on who they are anyways, so we can be a lot more organized after the first couple day/night cycles.


I lost confidence in your plan and stopped reading it when I came across the bolded line. Here is the description of the role of the assasin:

The Assassin is this game's third party candidate! Except for, there may be more than one? To complete his/her win objective, the Assassin is to find and kill all the other Assassins in the game. Assassins will be told in their role PMs how many Assassins there are in the game, but nobody beyond them will know. Assassins show up as Assassins to role checks. To clarify the Assassin's win objectives: The Assassin wins alone, and must complete his mission before the war between the town and the mafia ends. The Assassin counts toward the number of town-aligned people for counting town vs. mafia purposes.

So, the assassin does not win if all the mafia die. I don't completely understand your plan, and it might still be good, but it seems you came up with it off of an incorrect assumption so I'm going to need an explanation for why you thought that and if you still think your plan is valid.


On April 19 2010 17:21 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
I still have my suspicions about BM, but I'm willing to change my vote to lynch an inactive due to good reasons brought up numerous times in the last few pages.


On April 20 2010 10:19 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
FFFFFUUUUU bad luck with krndandaman...

and... I guess it's neutral that an assassin was killed, since they have no incentive to kill mafia and might end up killing townies in finding assassins? I'm really not sure how that's going to affect things.





I've been reading through AcrossFiveJulys posting history, and to me it seems a bit suspect. It's nothing specific in particular, but does anyone else get the same vibe?


Not on the top of my list, but yes. Even after a call for more posts from the non-voters, it seems like people still aren't motivated to post. Maybe I'm just not scary enough?
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
April 21 2010 00:22 GMT
#957
On April 21 2010 09:04 KF91 wrote:

I did not say that I have only read the two pages;.



On April 21 2010 08:47 KF91 wrote:
there's really nothing to touch upon at this moment (Read this page and the last
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
April 21 2010 00:27 GMT
#958
I've been looking through some more of the posting archive and another player has jumped out at me. iNfuNdiBuLuM. He's moderately active, but with a fairly high amount of low content posts. His larger posts are full of content, but I don't know, something jumps out as fishy to me. A combo of the play-by-play/recap content, the posting style, and the overly helpful attitude (sad that at this point I'm actually suspicious of someone being helpful...). However, I'm not familiar with his posting style, so it could simply be that. I'd love for someone who is a bit more familiar with him to look it over as well.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
April 21 2010 00:29 GMT
#959
Also, he's supposed to be one of the pro-stars, but despite being around hasn't contributed much lately.
KF91
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Canada221 Posts
April 21 2010 00:29 GMT
#960
On April 21 2010 09:22 Jugan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 09:04 KF91 wrote:

I did not say that I have only read the two pages;.



Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 08:47 KF91 wrote:
there's really nothing to touch upon at this moment (Read this page and the last


Oh, I think you just misunderstood because of my sentence structuring style -.- Sorry bout that. "Read" in that context was in an imperative sense, as in I was telling Osmoses to read the past two pages, and not "Read" as in "I just read the past two pages"
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