EPTWait a second...
World at War Mafia
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
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d3_crescentia
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On March 23 2010 13:15 Zona wrote: [3. If anyone initiates an unjustified nuke, someone with a real nuke launch a revenge strike against this initiator. If the initiator was mafia - good riddance. If the initiator was town, that person was still acting irresponsibly by initiating a nuke without a good case, and good riddance. Problem: isn't it only that the person being nuked has the chance of firing a retaliatory shot? If so the only way to really enforce this is to lynch the person launching the nuke on the day afterwards. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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On March 23 2010 13:40 Zona wrote: Any player can launch one nuke per day (real or fake, if they don't have real ones). It's when a player is the target of a nuke they can launch an ADDITIONAL nuke against the person who targetted them. Yeah, that was what I was trying to say, except I misread your original post and got slightly confused with the wording. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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On March 24 2010 03:14 Zona wrote: Current version of proposed plan 1. No one is to initiate a nuke. 2. Anyone who initiates a nuke should be revenge-nuked by TWO players with real nukes. To ensure only TWO revenge-nuke, those with real nukes need to refresh the thread, and see if two have already been launched. If not, shoot one. 3. If any of the revenge-nukes turn out to be fake, the faker needs to be lynched or nuked as well. 4. Do not launch fake nukes. This only serves to muddy the picture for the town and gives an opportunity for the target to get another nuke in the air. 5. Anti-nukes should be used at their owner's discretion. However, save some for the late game, so that at that stage, the mafia can't simply nuke a large proportion of the remaining town members and win. 6. If the town COLLECTIVELY (not by some individual thought) feels that they're probably close to losing, start using nukes as daytime vigilante hits. I don't like rules 2 and 3. I dislike rule 2 because it increases the number of available targets to retaliate against. It's entirely possible that the aggressor in this case is sitting on a stockpile of nukes, and having two additional people nuke him could potentially mean two more retaliatory strikes. I think it should be limited to just the victim and maybe just one more person that's allowed to fire in return; only in the case where the victim can't shoot back should two revenge-nukers get involved. I dislike the implications of rule 3, because it's possible we won't know which nukes are/aren't fake if they get shot down by anti-nukes, and so it could cloud the issue. Though I guess it stands to say if we all follow rules 1 and 4 then it it'd be a non-issue. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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On March 24 2010 09:45 Iaaan wrote: Oh, I forgot, Versatile helped get the bandwagon on L started, of course it hurts his e-peen to back down from his brilliant lynching plan >.> Yes, women have e-peens too. On the internet, everyone has a peen. Most of the lynch candidates we have here I think aren't even worth considering. Once L gets back I'm sure he'll be the same old voice of wisdom and prudence.  | ||
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d3_crescentia
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On March 24 2010 10:34 ~OpZ~ wrote: If the votes didn't operate different this round I wouldn't care. I wouldn't support lynching one of the only people I know that is confirmed town, and since the votes are an instant majority thing it gets a little more scary than usual. Especially if you feel you were bandwagoned after a reasonable statement of things to be aware of this game. Wait what? Who are you talking about that's confirmed town? Just to be clear. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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Iaaan, I've mentioned before that the problem with nuking the aggressor is that if he has more nukes he can always nuke you back. That would make two dead townies and 1 dead mafia barring any outside intervention. Thus I think the town should have a role in coordinating anti-nukes, should the situation absolutely demand it. Obviously I don't think people should be posting how many they have; just that they can call for help if they need it. Here's some math: Mafia only have 1KP; town only has 1 lynch. At a rate of 2 dead per day (1 lynch, 1 mafia kill) there would have to be at least 8 mafia in the game for things to get dangerous on Day 3 and for a town loss on Night 4 so long as everyone is playing terribly. But that would be over 1/3 of the game being mafia, which seems like a horribly retarded setup. Assuming we have a lower number of mafia it just seems more reasonable to have an ironclad rule that those who nuke without permission should be lynched, since it discourages mafia from trading lives that are bad for the town. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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##vote L | ||
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d3_crescentia
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##vote: RebirthofLegend As for saving Caller, I think we should wait until the last minute before deciding whether or not to use an anti-nuke. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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##vote: RebirthofLegend | ||
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On March 26 2010 11:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: ##RevengeNuke: JohnnySpazz My power is limited, and I didn't realize my power was supposed to post in the thread. If this isn't trolling I dunno what is. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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what this is just going to be another repeat of Red Army mafia -_- | ||
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d3_crescentia
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On March 26 2010 12:01 d3_crescentia wrote: I don't what this is just going to be another repeat of Red Army mafia -_- | ||
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On March 28 2010 04:28 Elemenope wrote: If he said Yes, then he didn't change rules at all if you phrased it as you said in your post at the bottom of page 54. I'm glad the missile towards me was shot down, but what the fuck at these other missiles. Admittedly, both of these are rather expected given the L was saved situation. I do think that L's pro-town and these nukes toward him are out of spite rather than for scum tells; I'd like to see L saved, but that's really up to the town and if they feel we need to save antis or not. Keep this in mind: NK may shoot another nuke tomorrow; he has anonymous nuking powers and has been shown to be clearly antitown since nobody has come up to state "hey, I'm NK, this is why I shot at Elemenope". As for the Amber-d3 inactivity: there's a lot of people who I haven't seen actually post real content about these last missiles, namely: d3 - posted just a few lines xelin - posted explaining his reasoning behind his day one pre-lynch actions Amber - hasn't posted nearly anything about these nukes Caller - hasn't posted anything at all I believe since RoL's missile was shot down Zona - This is a big surprise in my opinion. He hasn't posted at all since March 27 2010 05:57. 3 missiles has been shot since then, where are you Zona? Fishball - Posted somewhat early on, but recent posts have been lacking in terms of content other than showing how L is hypocritical/a douche/whatever Nikon - Last main post was during the 'should Japan come out and claim' nemY - Hasn't posted anything worth of content since his vote to lynch RoL. We have had what, 6 missiles shot by now? It shouldn't be that difficult to have something to talk about. Even if it's a "hey, I don't agree with this missile getting shot down" or whatever or "OMG THERE'S AN NK WITH ANONYMOUS NUKES". I followed this thread fairly closely up until shortly after RoL nuked Caller. Everything after that point has just been a pissing contest between L and friends (as ANY game with him usually devolves into) - and quite frankly I don't really care about what happens between them so long as we have a clear end result. None of this pansy "oh should we save them" anti-nuking stuff, because as Zona so put it quite a few pages ago, anti-nukes are FAR more valuable in the end game than the early game. I'm actually sort of surprised at tree.hugger launching a nuke at L, because it seems a bit out of character for him, but right now it's hard to say what's what when we just need more people to die to have some valid information. There are also other such things my personal life that make mafia a second priority to me, but as Foolishness would say, NO ONE CARES! That being said, I am rather surprised Zona hasn't been posting more, and that Xelin actually CLAIMED to be NK. A lot of the people on your list have been acting fairly characteristically of themselves (Fishball, nemY) but I don't have much experience with the rest of them to be able to tell. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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- I honestly don't remember much about my Day 1 vote - most of the time I don't think they really matter anyway. My thinking was mainly that I wanted to get something down as I wasn't sure on my work schedule at the time, and I thought L was actually more of a threat to town security - and judging by how things worked out between him/tree I'm sort of glad he's gone. I don't really mind that you guys are suspecting me - I'd probably be suspecting me as well, but there isn't really much I can really say at this point to prove my innocence, besides "I'll try to be more active." - Whether Nikon is mafia or not, his actions are pretty detrimental to the town, because 1) he targeted Zona, who has plenty to analyze and 2) it extended the day. As much as I lament our loss of so many townies, I'm glad all of the ridiculous dumb brinksmanship has gone on between mostly greens - and not our blues (or whatever counts for blues in this game). Once night falls those people that have special abilities can actually start to put them to use for the town. - With JeeJee's ToD theory, it seems that we have a limit of 5 nukes (4, if Nikon's turns out to be real) before we hit the danger zone. In a game this size, I'm going to be guessing that we have about 1.5-2x the amount of nukes necessary for ToD. This is only an estimate; Ace could be batshit insane and have loaded 3 nukes a person. Seeing as 7 nukes have been fired so far, I think it's time we actually get a bit more liberal with our anti-nuke usage and return to our previous policy of lynching the unprovoked nuker. I suppose there's all sorts of arguments to be made here about when to stop nuking/start anti-nuking, but it doesn't really matter so long as we make the right decisions on which ones to stop and which ones to not. | ||
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Here are the two questions on my mind right now: 1) Is Xelin mafia? 2) Does he deserve to be lynched? Considering the amount of bad decisions and judgments that have been made so far by him, it seems fairly reasonable to conclude that we SHOULD lynch him. After all, nuking out of line not once, but TWICE - with each nuke being special in its own way - pretty much defies everything that the town's tried to agree to. For this alone, I think he deserves to be lynched. But is he mafia? I sincerely doubt it. Bad decisions and poor judgments are pretty characteristic of Xelin, but we should note that in previous games when he was mafia he said and did MUCH LESS than he is now. Whom else is a good candidate? ~OpZ~ changed his vote to Caller, which I fully support. It's also where all of this nuclear madness began. I think it's about time we followed up on RoL's original hunch to see what we can make of it. ##vote: Caller | ||
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d3_crescentia
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I will be off to Italy this afternoon and will arrive there sometime IN THE FUTURE. I'll post my thoughts on this situation then, because there's a lot that strikes me as fishy (no offense, Fishballs). | ||
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d3_crescentia
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I am Sweden, a townie. ~OpZ~ asked earlier if I had done anything that was pro-town; I was the one who shot down the North Korean anony-nuke. I understand that everyone else must be looking at me with suspicion due to my activity level. I'm frustrated too - in the past several games I've been unable to do much as a townie, and I get easily put off by big shitstorms of posting like those that occurred earlier in this game. I'm also frustrated that people always seem to turn to me whenever I'm not as active as some of the other people in the thread, and I have to keep giving the same tired old excuse. It's happened for the last couple of games whenever I've lapsed in regular posting, and it makes me a little sad and frustrated, but it's understandable that people can't take my word. That's a lot of things that I have to deal with, because it's no excuse for not providing any input so far in this game. I apologize, and I'll work to make up for my lack of action thus far. Here's what I think - we have an overabundance of townies and blues. Those people that haven't roleclaimed yet are also good targets to focus on, but we obviously can't expect everyone that's claimed so far to be telling the truth. First matter of order - resolve veteran claims. Iaaan/Nikon need to step up and describe in detail about how each of their abilities work. Since Iaaan has already done so, it seems to be Nikon's turn. Then we have Caller/Fishball to worry about. Second, everyone claiming town needs to be examined thoroughly (myself included). Since we've got so many unclaimed roles with abilities, I'd imagine a few of our townies are actually mafia. Since Nemy's gone ahead and nuked Nikon, we should be looking at him first - but the rest of the town should be critically evaluated as well. We should all be careful of being too accepting of 'confirmed townies'. | ||
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##vote: Nikon We vote to lynch Nikon to force him to tell us his real role. I believe he is either mafia/SK at this point, given his shoddy behavior so far, but it would be far more useful if he could actually disclose the powers of his role (i.e. if it can be used in the town's favor by redirection a suspicious nuke). For those of you that are worried about mafia hits on him if he turns out to be useable, the fact that he can draw hits away/make mafia think twice about firing nukes is enough. Of course, if he's actually SK/mafia, then he deserves to die, period. Second, I've actually been watching Elemenope for a while now after Xelin stepped up and claimed for NK; at first I found it rather odd that Xelin would think that (and given his previous track record I wasn't surprised). But since that point, it seems that Elemenope seems to have been cruising on his previous good posting and not saying much of substance. Yeah, yeah, I know - pot kettle black, but there's definitely some sort of inconsistency in his posting style. I really disagree with Iaaan's if X is red then so is Y kind of thinking, as from past experience it just doesn't work very well. What we actually have to watch out for is who ISN'T accusing whom, and the patterns that lie there. For that matter, Caller hasn't said shit about shit, and even if he DOES turn out to be town it's a high possibility that all of his DT info will be useless if he's paranoid. Nemy is also a good target. I would be a reasonable target as well, though at this point if you don't believe I'm town I don't have much I can do to convince you =/ Third, we have ~3 nukes before we run into danger zone for ToD. I definitely expect to see some nukes coming out of the woodwork, but we have to remember the risk of retaliation nukes. I am hoping some of our remaining townies have anti-nukes to fire in the next few days. | ||
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d3_crescentia
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Since Nikon was 3rd party, the results of tonight will show us whether or not he was responsible for making the hits, or if there's one more 3rd party lurking out there. The OP is pretty clear in that the mafia only have 1KP; I'm actually more concerned if that if Survivor =/= SK then we have a rogue agent out there killing people... in which case we need him to target one of the more obvious mafia suspects so we don't lose. | ||
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Then we've got the heat thrown on Elemenope. If anyone has any questions regarding my anti-nuke, it's because 1) we had an anonymous North Korean nuke (which I thought was a RED attack) and 2) he had been posting fairly town-aligned up until recently. Now that things have changed, well, who knows what he could actually be. If the argument between citizen/Caller is going to go on any further, here's what I suggest: citizen will attempt to nuke Caller/Elemenope, and if he's PGO (by his description) I'm guessing we're still going to go through the motions of nuclear launch, but it'll land a dud. If Caller attempts to pull any crazy BS, we'll simply either 1) lynch him or 2) anti-nuke if he decides to nuke. Yes, I'm quite aware this plan is going to raise ToD... but the problem is that we can't afford to NOT nuke at this point in time. The town needs 100% accuracy over the next 4 days if we're going strictly by lynching. I'm assuming we have 3 nukes until we hit the Danger Zone, and unless Ace is going to dick us over hard then WE need to make use of these last three. One more thing - in a normal mafia game, the town would have lost by now, even with 100% lynch accuracy. It's only because we have nukes/special roles that we're still here. So, my question - what happens when citizen attempts to nuke Caller? The day gets extended by another 24 hours, but a normal missile falls? Or does citizen implode on himself? Let's shift gears for a second here, back to the player list: CONFIRMED: ~OpZ~ [Canada, Mason] Abenson [United Kingdom, Mason] d3_crescentia [Sweden, Town-aligned] - I'm confirming myself UNCONFIRMED Caller (Israel/Japan, INSANE Alignment Cop) citizen (China, Paranoid Gun Owner) JeeJee (???, Town-aligned?) haster27 (Portugal, Townie) Elemenope (Vietnam, Townie) Iaaan (Antarctica, Veteran) The unclaimed: - Colombia, Nuke Stealer - Unknown, Bus Driver - Unknown, Roleblocker First thing - JeeJee needs to step up and claim, so this list is complete. The next five on the list are immediately suspect. We can remove Caller/citizen right now since that's who we're discussing currently, so that leaves us with haster27/Elemenope/Iaaan. My gut feeling is that one of these is actually our Colombian nuke-stealer. Iaaan's claim as Veteran has been virtually uncontested since we lynched Nikon, though this is something that we actually CAN confirm, were it not for our radiation levels - but at least we it's possible to actually account for this, if we need to confirm him. I'm thinking we actually DO need to confirm him, since his claim effectively takes him off as a nuke target. But given the amount of lying that's gone down in this game so far it's entirely possible that his role is completely different (i.e. scum). My suspects at this point in time: haster27, Elemenope, Iaaan... and one of Caller/citizen. I'd like to reserve my vote until the last moment, so... ##vote: abstain | ||
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On April 11 2010 23:55 haster27 wrote: JeeJee// actually, if d3 launched his nuke, I would have immediately nuked you also before 24 hours were up. Then situation would be 4-5 to 3-4, but ToD raised up to 8. Since ToD was 9, all the nukes would have been frozen at that point. ~OpZ~// I just didn't want to give a speck of suggestion that tipped Mafia off of my ability lol. Also, you kept blasting me about being Mafia while you kept JeeJee, obvious scum, sliding, so I just decided to NK him and agreed with your points in order to mollify you. Except we didn't really have any compunction about tying the game. Even on Day 1 Caller wanted everyone to die in a nuclear fire. ^_^ | ||
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