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World at War Mafia
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Zona
40426 Posts
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Zona
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Zona
40426 Posts
(so that the game doesn't devolve into a silly tit for tat game where the town doesn't benefit) 1. On Day #1 - no one is to initiate a nuke with anyone else. The mafia are the primary beneficiaries of killing townies by fiat, so anyone initiating nukes when the town has little information is helping the mafia. 2. Day #2 and beyond - if you really feel someone is mafia and want to nuke them. Write a post detailing your case against them BEFORE you nuke, and give the rest of the town some time to consider your case to argue if it is valid. If no one overturns your case, go ahead a nuke. 3. If anyone initiates an unjustified nuke, someone with a real nuke launch a revenge strike against this initiator. If the initiator was mafia - good riddance. If the initiator was town, that person was still acting irresponsibly by initiating a nuke without a good case, and good riddance. P.S. RoL is probably vanilla town or miller, since he was added as the extra player after roles had already gone out. It'd be termendously unbalancing to add another mafia member. And I doubt Ace would invent another third party role just for an extra player, although that probably would be the most balanced way of handling things. | ||
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Zona
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On March 21 2010 09:52 Ace wrote: [*]Play to win. Don't do anything that would be considered playing against your win condition or ruining the game for your team. So don't nuke indiscriminately! As to the role of anti-nukes against initiated nukes - at the moment I think it should be at the owner's discretion. If we had a policy to anti-nuke every nuke that was launched, mafia members could launch fake nukes to make the town spend all their anti-nukes, then we're left with no anti-nukes for real mafia nukes later on. | ||
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Zona
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There's no clues in this game - everyone post some ideas and opinions! Don't be inactive and let the mafia hide among you! | ||
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Zona
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On March 23 2010 13:32 d3_crescentia wrote: Problem: isn't it only that the person being nuked has the chance of firing a retaliatory shot? If so the only way to really enforce this is to lynch the person launching the nuke on the day afterwards. Any player can launch one nuke per day (real or fake, if they don't have real ones). It's when a player is the target of a nuke they can launch an ADDITIONAL nuke against the person who targetted them. Plan part 4: If a "revenge strike" against the initiator was a fake, lynch/nuke BOTH the faker and the initiator, because if we don't, mafia can initiate a nuke, have a teammate fake-revenge according to the proposed plan, and BOTH live. Plan part 5: Unless you as a town member have a very good reason, do not launch fake nukes for any reason at all. You simply muddy the picture for the town (by changing the focus of the game to your nuke) without actually targetting a suspected mafia. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On March 23 2010 13:39 L wrote: Hey; Better idea. Don't fucking nuke anyone at all because we might lose to radiation. First person to nuke gets chain nuked by everyone else. I call this strategy M.A.D. for Mutually Assured Destruction. Sound awesome? I know it does. No chain nuking. There might be a third party who wins by annihilating the world by radiation, so everyone launching revenge strikes might lead to them winning. One or two revenge nukes at most. I do think a no-nukes idea is good for the most part, but later in the game the town can use them as daytime vigilante hits if we really fall behind by mislynching, so I wouldn't rule it out completely. On March 23 2010 13:39 L wrote: Now for day 1 lynch: Kill abenson. Kid's terribad and not worth keeping alive. Stop bringing past games into this. Your grudge against BM last game hit town and didn't meaningfully advance that game towards town victory (the overwhelming setup advantage did, though). If you think someone is terrible, convince the entire group of players to ignore him, rather than waste a lynch, especially a day 1 lynch which should provide information otherwise. The biggest reason is that if everyone piled on some target you proposed, we will have no differentiating votes to examine later on. And then we go to day 2 without that much more information than day 1. | ||
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Zona
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On March 23 2010 13:47 johnnyspazz wrote: you guys totally forgot that some people have anti-nuke missiles there's no reason to add extra radiation when a country can anti-nuke and we lynch the retard next day I dealt with that here: On March 23 2010 13:18 Zona wrote: As to the role of anti-nukes against initiated nukes - at the moment I think it should be at the owner's discretion. If we had a policy to anti-nuke every nuke that was launched, mafia members could launch fake nukes to make the town spend all their anti-nukes, then we're left with no anti-nukes for real mafia nukes later on. To expand on what I said, if mafia late game still have nukes, they're extremely powerful as extra daytime hits. Early game the mafia, if careful, will hold back with their nukes because if they launch they could be easily discovered, especially if we follow the plan I proposed. But late game if they're on the cusp of victory it doesn't matter to them if they're discovered or not, as at that point they should have calculated that whatever payback the town can throw at them will not be enough to take their victory away from them. If possible, we need to hold some anti-nukes to defend against late-game mafia nukes, at the point where they would otherwise not fear being discovered. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
Revised plan: 1. No one is to initiate nukes against anyone else. 2. If anyone initiates a nuke, TWO players with real nukes make revenge strikes. (This makes it far more risky for a mafia member to launch a fake nuke at the initiator to save him or her.) 3. Only if the town suspects they are close to losing, will the town COLLECTIVELY DECIDE to start using nukes as daytime vigilante hits. 4. If you have anti-nukes, save at least SOME for the endgame, to diminish the chance of mafia winning late game by simply nuking the remaining town members. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On March 23 2010 15:15 L wrote: If you set up a deterrent as concrete as possible its less likely that all actors attempt to move in a manner which will result in them losing. As it stands, your assumption that only a few people fire back essentially allows people to nuke tactically if they have anti-nuke capabilities or if they're part of mafia and know that their gambit will pay off for their team. Well if they use their anti-nuke, we throw more nukes their way. Given the setup I would expect that there be a third party that wins when radiation gets too high, which is why I'm against everyone retaliating. That third party could initiate a nuke to attempt precisely to induce everyone else to nuke back. But at least so far the consensus plan is for all town members to NOT NUKE. And if anyone does start nuking, some sort of town revenge nuking will take place. Fair enough on the point of having to propose someone for the day 1 lynch. But we better not end up with a situation where every person votes for the same lynch target. | ||
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On March 24 2010 00:55 Caller wrote: Well guys, in case nobody noticed, before we can lynch anybody, a nuke has to be launched, or day won’t end. Seeing as how nobody else has been an obvious target, I propose that we "nuke" L this turn around. As town, we need more information, and the best way of getting information is by killing a few people. For instance, we don’t have any idea what possible roles there are, aside from our own. More importantly, he won’t be able to contribute to town for a good 40 or so hours. By which, of course, the day would have ended, timewise, unless we nuke somebody to postpone it another 24 hours. And if necessary, we can always delay the day by nuking someone that’s already being nuked, or somebody without any nukes can launch a “nuke” to prolong the day. In fact, the best way to go about this is for somebody without any actual nukes to nuke L. This will postpone the day and give us a lynch without raising ToD or killing L in the event he is town. Since a nuke has to go off to progress the day at all, a fake nuke at this point would be the best. We should save our real nukes for when we need them. WTF? NO! The day won't end if nukes have ALREADY been launched and 24 hours has not yet passed since the last nuke launch. We don't need to launch a nuke to end the day. There is already a day deadline for the lynch. A nuke launch can only push that deadline BACK. However - majority votes are required for lynches, and lynches could occur early if majority is reached early. But I have a feeling from past TL mafia activity that getting such majority votes will be difficult and a lot of no lynches will occur. I hope things will be different, though. For such blatant misreading of the rules, let me throw down the first vote. ##Vote: Caller | ||
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Zona
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Players without nukes should never launch, if they're town-aligned. Launching a fake nuke does not act as a daytime vigilante hit, but muddies the picture for the town, AND allows the person you target to launch an extra nuke, which will add to radiation and might get you killed. Until you are some awesome player (and not only in your own mind), please don't mess with gambits. Of the games I've been in and read on TL, I haven't really seen any gambits of this style pay off for the team the player was on. | ||
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Zona
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On March 24 2010 01:19 Amber[LighT] wrote: Oh and lynching someone because they didn't read the rules, take that as you want but that's more BS than lynching a guaranteed inactive. First of all, one vote isn't a lynch. Secondly, reading the rules and interpreting them correctly is key to town success. If you aren't sure, ask. Ace has offered to answer any question. Making the town misunderstand the game and thus the best way to play is beneficial to the mafia and must be called out. Actually I don't like your attitude that "they didn't read the rules" is some trivial issue. If you're going to play the game, at least take the damn effort to read the rules. | ||
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Zona
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He's also contributed a plan, even though I vehemently don't agree with certain aspects of it. Those of you calling for him to be lynched...why? He's not going to be inactive for long. Do you have any good reasons beyond that? | ||
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Zona
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On March 24 2010 01:49 Amber[LighT] wrote: Figuring out who can nuke isn't really the issue since I don't believe it matters whether or not you can nuke or not. It doesn't guarantee anyone is town or mafia aligned. I agree with this. But I see the use of nukes (as a daytime vigilante kill) as a last-resort, desperation measure for the town when they feel they are close to losing. Let's not factor using nukes into the town plan until we're really fucked. | ||
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Zona
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On March 24 2010 02:14 Versatile wrote: so when the town decides person A needs to be nuked, how do we stop persons B-J from all firing a nuke @ him and ending the game? We haven't even agreed on how many nukes we're going to lob at a person who initiated an unjustified nuke. In any case, to prevent excess nuking (should we decide that everyone nuking the same target is not beneficial), just have people who ARE about to nuke REFRESH THE THREAD and read to see if others have already nuked. Actually I now have another argument against mass counter-nuking someone who started it. If there's a mafia member with a sizable number of real nukes, then if this mafia is suspected or for another reason doesn't care to live and starts something with a real nuke, then for every nuke another player (who wasn't the target of the first nuke) launches at this mafia, the mafia can launch ANOTHER one back at this person. So if the town mass-retaliates, the initiator can get another nuke launched at the town (as long as the initiator still has more real nukes remaining). Following L's plan could allow a mafia with, say, 5 nukes, to kill 5 townies at the cost of the mafia's own life, if the town mass-revenge-nukes him. | ||
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Zona
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On March 24 2010 02:45 meeple wrote: I have to disagree.... if someone nukes without any good reason, the town can just anti-nuke it, no harm done, other than wasting the protection. The person who did it will get bitched out for a while and perhaps lynched/nuked. I said in an earlier post that at least a portion of anti-nukes needs to be saved for the late game in case mafia decides that the numbers are in their favor and tries to nuking to finish off most of the remaining town members. If we had a policy of always spending anti-nukes on every nuke that is launched, we could go into the late game having used most or all of them up. Perhaps mafia could even launch fake nukes early on to consume anti-nukes just for this purpose. @Ver, I do think my plan is superior and would definitely be happy if my plan was "set in stone" but I'm not going to be like incognito and just declare it to be so. Other town members are welcome to consider it and point out flaws in it, as L did with the first version. @XeliN. If we decided only to lynch nuke-initiators, what if two people initiate with nukes over the course of one day? Plus lynching is a lot less reliable, and needs a lot more coordination to pull off than revenge-nuking. If you can get the entire town on board with the idea to lynch the first nuke initiator and then revenge-nuke any subsequent ones, then that would be an improvement to the plan. But I suspect with a closed setup game like this there's probably some roles with extra hidden votes or some other way to mess with lynch votes. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
1. No one is to initiate a nuke. 2. Anyone who initiates a nuke should be revenge-nuked by TWO players with real nukes. To ensure only TWO revenge-nuke, those with real nukes need to refresh the thread, and see if two have already been launched. If not, shoot one. 3. If any of the revenge-nukes turn out to be fake, the faker needs to be lynched or nuked as well. 4. Do not launch fake nukes. This only serves to muddy the picture for the town and gives an opportunity for the target to get another nuke in the air. 5. Anti-nukes should be used at their owner's discretion. However, save some for the late game, so that at that stage, the mafia can't simply nuke a large proportion of the remaining town members and win. 6. If the town COLLECTIVELY (not by some individual thought) feels that they're probably close to losing, start using nukes as daytime vigilante hits. | ||
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