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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Sign me up.
Questions: Will bus driver be notified if anything happened to the people he switched? (this was mentioned before but you didn't answer)
I assume if a bus driver switches someone who was going to be killed onto someone who was medic protected, that person won't die correct?
If a mad hatter places a bomb on person A, and bus driver switches persons A and B, will B now have a bomb? If so will the mad hatter be notified of this?
If a mad hatter has a bomb on person A and dies during the night (thus person A should die) yet bus driver switches person A and B, will A still die or will B die?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 11 2010 07:17 Fulgrim wrote: It isn't safe for normal mafia to run for office, so they won't do that, the main danger here is GF. (Being unfamiliar with the busdriver rules, a mafia aligned one could switch the DT check off the elected official maybe?) Regardless we want to avoid getting a GF into office. Right now we have JeeJee, L, and BC running for office, chances are one of them is going to be GF. I'm going to withhold my vote until I see some more from the candidates or if there are anymore people that announce their campaign.
I highly doubt that the mafia is already organized to the point where they got a guy running for office right now. It usually takes them a bit to decide what their plan is and who's going to run. I'd watch and see who comes to run later in the day.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 11 2010 11:26 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:37 madnessman wrote:On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote: Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean? He's trying to make you look bad, by saying that someone who accuses others of being the Godfather is usually the Godfather himself, since said person is just trying to divert suspicion so the town won't realize that it is HE who is GF.. Which doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to me, because when the accused GF gets lynch and turns over town-aligned, won't the accuser just look like someone who cried wolf? No,its more that players with a certain role are more likely to ask questions about that role or how they fit into the game than other players. A player who makes a huge post about a DT plan then goes afk looks VERY much like a DT because he's doing 2 things DTs do: thinks about himself and his role as a DT, then he tries to not die. Greens generally run inactive in our games unless they're veteran players trying to run pro-town moves, or bad players trying to stave off the boredom of being plain. Greens also try to trap people in pms, but that doesn't really work well. By contrast someone like the vet will post excessively pro-town things in a bid to get killed; Ver generally doesn't talk very much in an effort to stay alive for a few days; Last game as Vet he was active far earlier. Some other vets will attempt to claim medic or DT in an effort to get hit. This doesn't work well in our games because we shoot liars (sometimes). I'm also running on the idea that there's going to be a good player who's GF; I haven't really seen GF given to a shitty player because they generally can't command enough respect within the mafia to have people agree. if that's the case, there are 5 main 'candidates' for GF in the game. Me, Malongo, Incog, Cobbler and Foolishness. I know I'm not, so for my personal calculations, there's a 25% chance one of these 5 is the GF. Additionally, guessing on how teams balance, given mafia's low kp and the structure of the game, I'd say that 2-3 of these players are probably mafia. Incog and Cobbler have decided to run. That's perfectly fine and entirely expected of them. If the mafia team running is most likely to only send a GF candidate after the early talk of checks, then one of them is probably legit, and the other is probably not. Additionally, that also means that foolishness and Malongo are probably 1-1 on the legit/not ratio too. But I'm not confirmed to people who aren't me (yet) so the actual numbers are a bit off. But that's all conjecture, and frankly it won't matter because by night 2 we'll have all of them checked and the 1-2 goons in that group will likely be caught and the rest will join the town circle.
Never thought I'd see you put me in a "top candidates" list. I feel like my life has meaning now!
Someone mentioned (I think Malongo) that it's better to vote for a person who's constantly active than a person who makes his/her candidacy and then is fairly inactive for the rest of the game. On the contrary though, I would think that a mafia would be more desperate to get into office and therefore would be more active and posting more in order to try to get the town's favor. In the other game, l10f made a half assed candidacy for mayor and then disappeared (cause he was the DT). I think it makes more sense for a blue role to run for office, and then just disappear if nobody seems to be voting for him/her as they don't want to attract attention.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 13 2010 10:52 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 09:09 Incognito wrote: DT Check List: CynanMachae ~OpZ~ Sidesprang
Medic Prot List: Incognito Bodyguard A Bodyguard B Why are you dictating a list for the DT's and Medics? Do you have any reasons for the people you've chosen? Let the DTs and medics choose for themselves. If you post a public list, and the DTs and medics actually follow it, the mafia bus driver can effectively screw with the town without even needing to find his/her fellow mafia members in order to coordinate. I think these lists are not a helpful idea for the town. It also irks me that you've declared your idea to be final without thinking through the differences in the mechanics in this game. Or perhaps you have, but decided to hold such things back and post the flawed argument nonetheless.
It's called creating order for the town, and establishing some sort of plan. Bodyguards are going to be made public, and there's a good chance they're going to be under fire at some point this game. I'll give you that maybe his DT check list is opinionated, but honestly who else are you going to protect?
Look at this way, now, maybe I'm biased from lack of experience but guess what? MEDICS SUCK BALLS! Have you ever seen a medic perform outstandingly during a game? I sure have never seen a medic block more than one hit during a game, and usually those hits are very obvious (like Scamp protecting jspazz in the other game). Letting the DT's and medics roam free is certainly not beneficial to the town.
Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord? Problem with forming some sort of town circle eh? Don't like the town being organized? Oh! Perhaps you've adopted the Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 13 2010 11:09 L wrote: You assume the town doesn't have order.
Mistake.
If you're talking to me I never said that, but I can see how it could be implied. At any rate, he's the one saying "Lets just let medics/DT's do want they want". There's definitely something wrong with that.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 13 2010 11:28 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 11:05 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 10:52 Zona wrote:On March 13 2010 09:09 Incognito wrote: DT Check List: CynanMachae ~OpZ~ Sidesprang
Medic Prot List: Incognito Bodyguard A Bodyguard B Why are you dictating a list for the DT's and Medics? Do you have any reasons for the people you've chosen? Let the DTs and medics choose for themselves. If you post a public list, and the DTs and medics actually follow it, the mafia bus driver can effectively screw with the town without even needing to find his/her fellow mafia members in order to coordinate. I think these lists are not a helpful idea for the town. It also irks me that you've declared your idea to be final without thinking through the differences in the mechanics in this game. Or perhaps you have, but decided to hold such things back and post the flawed argument nonetheless. It's called creating order for the town, and establishing some sort of plan. Bodyguards are going to be made public, and there's a good chance they're going to be under fire at some point this game. I'll give you that maybe his DT check list is opinionated, but honestly who else are you going to protect? Look at this way, now, maybe I'm biased from lack of experience but guess what? MEDICS SUCK BALLS! Have you ever seen a medic perform outstandingly during a game? I sure have never seen a medic block more than one hit during a game, and usually those hits are very obvious (like Scamp protecting jspazz in the other game). Letting the DT's and medics roam free is certainly not beneficial to the town. Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord? Problem with forming some sort of town circle eh? Don't like the town being organized? Oh! Perhaps you've adopted the Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles. Have you thought through the implications of the mafia bus driver role? This is no ordinary mafia game where a public DT/medic list *might* be beneficial. Alone, and without public DT/medic lists, the mafia bus driver (who does not begin knowing his/her mafia teammates) cannot really use the power effectively. The power cannot be used to protect the mafia or whitewash for them, since the bus drvier doesn't know who they are. And if the bus driver has no idea who the DTs will check, doing a random switch has a very low chance of producing useful results for the mafia. With a public DT list, however, the bus driver could elect to switch someone in that DT list with anyone else. Remember the bus driver doesn't even need for this 'someone else' to be mafia for this to be effective - even if a blue is switched with a green, or a green with a blue, then the DT can be discredited. Or, if people are considering the chance that the DT's check was bus driven, then doubt is thrown on the result of the check, making it a lot less useful. A DT choosing his or her own check instead can hopefully find a fellow town member, and then can form a private, trusted discussion group where all participants know that every idea is free from mafia interference, even if they aren't necessarily correct at first. I do agree that on the whole, the medic power isn't that effective. But once again, having a public medic list that the medics actually follow just allow the mafia to avoid wasting their hits and slowing down their killing of the town, when wasted hits give the town more days, more time to figure out who the mafia are. The medic becomes a ton more powerful if he/she survives to late game because there are a lot fewer people for the mafia and medic to choose from, and thus the chances of their choices coinciding are a lot higher. Addendum: + Show Spoiler +I can see how a DT list and medic list can be useful for a certain style of play, in which the town rallies around a FEW vocal, strong, central players, who are entirely confirmed by the DT and then subsequently protected by medics so that they can be the town leaders, recipients and proclaimers of DT checks, and the like, but the bus driver weakens this considerably. First, public DT-confirmation is a lot more shakey because of the bus driver. And like I mentioned in my main post, publicly declaring a DT check list is just inviting the bus driver to switch and muddle things up.
Also, the style of play which involves a few central, strong, DT-confirmed + medic-protected individuals leading the town is not the only road to success. Town members forming private discussion groups with people they trust, as well as posting their thoughts in public can root out mafia and win that way, and this style is far less vulnerable to mafia manipulation, as there aren't just a few individuals who are dominating the town's decisions. The town's power is in its mass, why not play in a style that emphasizes that? In any case, the bus driver makes the other route far less attractive.
The point of the matter is that it's better to have the blue roles organized and under some general plan of action, and not letting them "choose for themselves" as you said. Mafia bus driver is at a severe disadvantage because they do not know the rest of the mafia team. Even say that the DT was going to inspect someone on the list of 3 people Incog gave. If the bus driver chooses to mess it up, they can only mess up ONE of the 3 people. Still a good chance DT's check is going to go through. Also they could accidentally switch with a mafia member, letting the DT check a mafia by mistake. Heck the bus driver could switch a mafia hit onto one of their own.
With the medic scenario, assuming most people agreed with whatever medic list is given, do you think the mafia is going to target anyone on that list? Probably not unless they're desperate. Bus driver switch is only going to work if they get lucky with mafia hits. Even still bus driver could end up switching them, but that would require mafia hitting whatever other person they switched. Still, having medics protect someone random on their own accord is probably going to be no different. Better to be organized and have a plan than acting on own volition.
What I'm trying to say his, there's too many what if scenario's, and too many possibilities. Without mafia knowing the bus driver, the bus driver is useless, and could end up causing more harm to mafia than good. There's not really a point in worrying about the bus driver at this point.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 13 2010 12:02 Zona wrote:I'll further extend my thoughts on DT strategies, since you seem to be expressing disdain for the ideas of DTs acting on their own. First, if the DT can get access to a protected mouthpiece to the town (by becoming a protected elected official, or perhaps somehow confirming that a certain elected official is town and proving him/herself to that elected official and then communicating through them), then it's smooth sailing. The DT uses his or her rolechecks to find mafia, then proclaims the finds to the town through the mouthpiece, allowing the town to lynch them. The DT's power contributes a ton to the town's success. However, if the DT cannot secure such a mouthpiece, it's better early on to find fellow town members, not mafia. If the DT finds a mafia member early in the game in this kind of situation, it often won't be easy to convince the rest of the town to lynch the target without revealing themselves. And revealing leaves the DT a prime target to be nightkilled: if a game is reasonably balanced, the mafia will be able to kill the revealed DT. However, if the DT finds fellow town members, they can form a private, trusted discussion circle which can become even more useful once the DT starts hunting mafia. Then the circle can work together to lynch the mafia - both in votes and in public arguments, rather than the DT working alone trying to convince the town. If a DT chooses who to check privately, the chances of his or her results being inaccurate are low. The godfather chance is low, and the bus driver chance is low, since the bus driver has no information. If the targets that the DT checks are public however, it's so much easier for the bus driver to make a difference. So yes, if the DT cannot get elected, I'm advocating that the DT chooses who the check on his or her own (and check for potential TOWN members, not mafia, at least in the early game). As the godfather can be chosen AFTER the election in this game, the mafia actually as a great chance of faking a 'town' DT result on an elected official so the 'confirm a protect mouthpiece' avenue is also not ideal. Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 11:05 Foolishness wrote:Letting the DT's and medics roam free is certainly not beneficial to the town.
Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord? Problem with forming some sort of town circle eh? Don't like the town being organized? Oh! Perhaps you've adopted the Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles. You are using very skewed language here, rather than reasoning. "Letting the DT's and medics roam free" - as if they were wild animals or something? "Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord?" - as if town members thinking on their own is a bad thing? "Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles." - this is a thoroughly unfair comparison. I am arguing against someone's plan and have laid out my reasons on why their proposals were flawed. I don't see how it's even remotely comparable to some other player's history of "cause some chaos for shits and giggles."
And how often has those private town circles the DT formed work out in favor of the town? Not very many by my watch (but I am rather new so I could be mistaken). Chezinu formed a huge town circle the other game, and that didn't do anything. Yeah, you can blame Chezinu for being stupid if you want but that doesn't defeat my point. Ver tried to form a circle early in the game and nearly everyone in his circle was dead before long. These things don't work out, you're very prone to getting randomly hit by the mafia, and unless you get the backing of some town leader your information is going to be useless (or by that time it will be too late in the game).
Better organized than not.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote: Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be??
I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares!
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Someone called?
On March 14 2010 08:58 Abenson wrote: This game sure seems slow...
NOBODY CARES!
On March 14 2010 09:09 Ace wrote: whew, it sure is getting hot in here!
NOBODY CARES!...wait, you're not in this game...
Of all the voting that took place, madnessman had the most fishy outcome. He changed his vote 3 times I think (including the time after day ended), making citi.zen's voting pattern look normal. He also tried to change at the last minute to offset the amount of votes going on Incognito. Definitely something strange going on there.
While the swing on Incog is fishy as well, JeeJee turning up innocent probably indicates this was not mafia related.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 14 2010 09:21 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 09:19 Foolishness wrote:Someone called? On March 14 2010 08:58 Abenson wrote: This game sure seems slow... NOBODY CARES! On March 14 2010 09:09 Ace wrote: whew, it sure is getting hot in here! NOBODY CARES!...wait, you're not in this game... Of all the voting that took place, madnessman had the most fishy outcome. He changed his vote 3 times I think (including the time after day ended), making citi.zen's voting pattern look normal. He also tried to change at the last minute to offset the amount of votes going on Incognito. Definitely something strange going on there. While the swing on Incog is fishy as well, JeeJee turning up innocent probably indicates this was not mafia related. Oh, you noticed citi.zen's voting pattern too. Good show. That would be the reason for my suspicion of him, as exemplified in the last two pages.
Yeah I called him out on it early in the night (it's in the archives if you care to look). Considering how active he's been the "I'm a confused townie" defense is not very convincing at all.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 15 2010 08:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Random list of suspects These are people that currently seem fishy in some sense that make them stand out in my mind. I will attempt to do my best at giving a reason why. To start with Xelin + Show Spoiler +He has been “active” thus far. As in he ran in the election, although it went no where. On March 11 2010 07:30 XeliN wrote: I'm going to put myself forward for office, wasn't going to as I have an essay due tomorrow and didnt expect to be able to pay attention to this but seems like I'm going to be able to due to my laziness//need to procrastinate.
I think I am good at analysing peoples allignment from their posts, and is something that I've gotten better at the more games I've played.
DT's being able to rolecheck elected also means that I could be trusted early on and co-ordinate with blues to get us a decisive win early on.
Also i'd quite like to play an elected position simply because I have not had the chance before and it would make the game more exciting (for me).
Elect XeliN ! Keep that bolded statement in mind. He basically wanted to be checked to co-ordinate with blues. Cool idea right? However, it puts him the center of the town circle. Seems like something anyone would want. Seems kinda legit until you On March 15 2010 07:26 Abenson wrote: From what I've seen so far, I think that: I think that the most important part is to have the dt's post their results. I know that this is risky, but I think it's extremely important that we get information from the dt's. Note: this abenson quote is because of the following On March 13 2010 02:52 XeliN wrote: Also L if you get voted in don't lynch Bill it would be a waste, going over the thread I would lynch Abenson On March 12 2010 07:17 Abenson wrote: Declaration: I think it's really hard for me to post anything BUT 1-liners unless I have something important or I am trying to argue a point or protecting myself. Therefore from now on I will simply post 1-liners in order to state my mood/thoughts on the current matter
P.S. I'm kinda lazy to update my post in the archives
Town or Mafia this is just plain unhelpful, also I'd like to restate something I wrote way long ago that no-one really responded to. We need to put in place and agreed rule whereby people who are exceptionally inacitve or do not contribute are lynched. Forces the Mafia to post and forces town to try to participate, win win. thoughts?
He specifically wanted to lynch abenson if elected. However, (keep in mind the abenson quote I posted above), he then agrees with him found On March 15 2010 08:08 XeliN wrote: well if BC was telling the truth about his role there is no reason he should not disclose who he has checked, instead of writing their specific role he could simply say "checked X and result was either Red//Townie" posting blue roles would be bad because it gives the mafia information but I can't see how it would not be beneficial to share the results in that way. I don't think it's right that he can get away with claiming DT and not provide any evidence that he is, seems dodgy to me. This is what confuses me. He actively wanted to kill abenson, yet agrees that all DT info should be handed over to town. In this case he does want me to name who I’ve cleared, but not their role (ok, seems kinda cool I guess) except of how bad an Idea it is. Lets spell it out simply. If someone is red, they get called out immediately, but as soon as you give a list of “cleared” players, especially this early, the mafia just has to continiously shoot them to prevent a town circle of any kind forming. So in short, my main reason for suspecting him, he wants information/be in control of information that as town, he should know how it should be used, while at the same time agreeing with the person he wanted to kill if he had been elected. Not a lot to go on really at the moment, but enough to keep me looking at him. Also as a minor note, he hasn’t kept his archives up to date at the time of this post, something minor but worth noting for reference later. D3_cresentia + Show Spoiler + This is based on my experience when I was a host and he played in my game. He was very active in my game as a town member, very active, and he also got elected. However, this game he has been fairly inactive and the posts he has made have generally been few and not very contributing.
Simply put, I expect more out of him as his performance the last time I watched him play town was much better than it is now.
Abenson + Show Spoiler +
The kid is posting nothing helpful, and is playing the exact same he was in the game with two mafia families that the kid was red in. Simply put, he is either a terrible player who can’t play without appearing scummy, or is mafia.
~opz~ + Show Spoiler +Kid is fishy as fuck. I don’t want to quote his posts in the archive thread, but just go read the ones he has, seriously. He starts off moderately helpful, seems like a good start to the game. Proceeds to then try and toss L under the bus, not very serious but still there. Now, the important part of a post to bring up On March 12 2010 02:44 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh, and Vivi for Mafia aligned bus driver. That's my guess for this game. Hide nested quote - On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote: If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia.
We can't afford medic protection on them. maybe bus driver....But we can't protect them. Protection is for the BG's... The town will be forced to play this without our "vets" that we love.
GG, L, Incog, BC. If any of you live without being mayor (one of you most certainly will live through atleast one night), I shall be greatly surprised.
Deadly format for cruelty, but face it everyone, we all must step up and go after the mafia. Even if they aren't here to help us. So, with that said, if the vets would like to post some ideas that we should follow to win with this format, please do!
First, he pins Vivi as the bus driver. He specifies mafia bus driver, however, concentrate on the role itself. I point this out for two reasons. The only reason someone would off vivi so early (the guy is an odd day 1 choice) is they figured I was giving him information, or he was blue. This FoS pointed at vivi seems odd given the game play. Next, he mentions that with this format, the town will most likely be forced to play without the “vet” players. And if any of us live day 1 he would be surprised. Keep in mind this line of thought. By L/myself/incog not dying (in this case more L as incog and I have bg protection) he can now come out and say the only way L wouldn’t take a hit is if he was mafia, or the like. The post feels like a placeholder to allow him to instantly jump on the three of us should any of us not die right away. After that post he again accuses vivi of being the bus driver, as well as L of being gf. This is the second time putting FoS on vivi (confirmed green via death), and now L. Both of these have not been followed by any sort of reasoning to it, but just seem to be “contributing” posts. He then has some random posts, one of which states that he should be getting checked by a DT. Why would he think this, and if he is green as he says he is, why would he want to be checked so quickly while in the same post claiming he will be afk potentially for a few days, or for a lot longer as he might get arrested. He could really have had a shitty life situation (possible), however, the fact he was claiming he was getting a DT to check him seems weird if he was vanishing for days, he wouldn’t want to be checked if he wasn’t going to be able to play for awhile. This is a general starter. There are a few others I have my eye on, but as I don’t have anything other than a general feeling without grounds, better not off trying to go anywhere with it.
Yo, I got a few questions for you. I think some answers will help clear up a lot of confusion with the town right now, cause right now, the town's a shitstorm of inactivity.
1) Who do you want to lynch today? You got elected as mayor, you claimed (through one person or another) that you are the DT. I'm assuming you did not find a mafia with your check or you would have said so right? It's impossible for me to know by what you're doing right now. You voted for Abenson, you put Abenson in your "random list of suspects" (more on that later). So do you want the town to lynch Abenson? I have no idea what you think of things right now. Maybe you really want to lynch L cause you think he's scum? You should probably say something. This brings me to the next point:
2) Why are you being a crappy leader? You accepted your role as mayor, you even claimed (you said you were going to claim if vivi had not done for you) so you could get into office. There, it's done. Now do something about it! You haven't done much of anything since being elected, and hey if I do say so myself, you weren't doing much before elections either. Right now, L is doing a better job of being mayor than you are, he's actively voicing his opinions and arguing with people. That's good for town. You sitting in your mayoral chair whacking off waiting until your next DT check isn't helping the town. This is assuming you even are the DT, and hey guess what it looks kinda sketchy now.
There is a point that needs to be addressed to the town. L claims he has a circle of 3(?) blues, BC said he claimed to people and has hinted he knows blues, Incog claims he knows a bunch of blues as well. There are more blues going around than there are probably in the game. If you all were really blue, why haven't you coordinated together? If all of you were legit, I'd expect this game to be near over for the mafia because you probably know over half the town is innocent. Why isn't this happening? Why are none of you telling us who to lynch (exception of L here). Somebody's full of shit with you three. At least one of you is lying about the information you know. Based on what you three have individually said, this game should be nearly over. Why are we still playing and why are we guessing on who to lynch today?
BC I'd like to remind you of the game past (forgot which one off the top of my head) where you got elected mayor and couldn't control your town and Pyrry led the mafia to victory. That game you made it seem like you knew a bunch of blue roles, knew exactly what you were doing to lead the town to victory, and you didn't. I had to take over as pseudo mayor that game because everyone realized you had no information. Right now I'm starting to feel the same way (although I'll give you it's still early in the game).
But if blues start dying and we fail to lynch mafia, I hope you're willing to be held accountable.
Your mayor of this town. Do something about it.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Not to mention, your "random list of suspects" and your "general feeling without grounds" is total bullshit. What does that even me? "Oh hey guys this is who I think we should lynch...but I actually have no idea or any information so just do whatever I'm sure it'll work out". That's honestly what it sounded like when I read your post.
And what do you mean "better not off trying to go anywhere with it"? If you honestly cared about the town winning, you would try to go somewhere with it. You would try to make these people speak up and defend themselves. You would stop these people from being inactive. Your post basically said "I think these people are suspicious....but it's cool if they don't say anything about it".
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 15 2010 10:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 09:38 Foolishness wrote:On March 15 2010 08:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Random list of suspects These are people that currently seem fishy in some sense that make them stand out in my mind. I will attempt to do my best at giving a reason why. To start with Xelin + Show Spoiler +He has been “active” thus far. As in he ran in the election, although it went no where. On March 11 2010 07:30 XeliN wrote: I'm going to put myself forward for office, wasn't going to as I have an essay due tomorrow and didnt expect to be able to pay attention to this but seems like I'm going to be able to due to my laziness//need to procrastinate.
I think I am good at analysing peoples allignment from their posts, and is something that I've gotten better at the more games I've played.
DT's being able to rolecheck elected also means that I could be trusted early on and co-ordinate with blues to get us a decisive win early on.
Also i'd quite like to play an elected position simply because I have not had the chance before and it would make the game more exciting (for me).
Elect XeliN ! Keep that bolded statement in mind. He basically wanted to be checked to co-ordinate with blues. Cool idea right? However, it puts him the center of the town circle. Seems like something anyone would want. Seems kinda legit until you On March 15 2010 07:26 Abenson wrote: From what I've seen so far, I think that: I think that the most important part is to have the dt's post their results. I know that this is risky, but I think it's extremely important that we get information from the dt's. Note: this abenson quote is because of the following On March 13 2010 02:52 XeliN wrote: Also L if you get voted in don't lynch Bill it would be a waste, going over the thread I would lynch Abenson On March 12 2010 07:17 Abenson wrote: Declaration: I think it's really hard for me to post anything BUT 1-liners unless I have something important or I am trying to argue a point or protecting myself. Therefore from now on I will simply post 1-liners in order to state my mood/thoughts on the current matter
P.S. I'm kinda lazy to update my post in the archives
Town or Mafia this is just plain unhelpful, also I'd like to restate something I wrote way long ago that no-one really responded to. We need to put in place and agreed rule whereby people who are exceptionally inacitve or do not contribute are lynched. Forces the Mafia to post and forces town to try to participate, win win. thoughts?
He specifically wanted to lynch abenson if elected. However, (keep in mind the abenson quote I posted above), he then agrees with him found On March 15 2010 08:08 XeliN wrote: well if BC was telling the truth about his role there is no reason he should not disclose who he has checked, instead of writing their specific role he could simply say "checked X and result was either Red//Townie" posting blue roles would be bad because it gives the mafia information but I can't see how it would not be beneficial to share the results in that way. I don't think it's right that he can get away with claiming DT and not provide any evidence that he is, seems dodgy to me. This is what confuses me. He actively wanted to kill abenson, yet agrees that all DT info should be handed over to town. In this case he does want me to name who I’ve cleared, but not their role (ok, seems kinda cool I guess) except of how bad an Idea it is. Lets spell it out simply. If someone is red, they get called out immediately, but as soon as you give a list of “cleared” players, especially this early, the mafia just has to continiously shoot them to prevent a town circle of any kind forming. So in short, my main reason for suspecting him, he wants information/be in control of information that as town, he should know how it should be used, while at the same time agreeing with the person he wanted to kill if he had been elected. Not a lot to go on really at the moment, but enough to keep me looking at him. Also as a minor note, he hasn’t kept his archives up to date at the time of this post, something minor but worth noting for reference later. D3_cresentia + Show Spoiler + This is based on my experience when I was a host and he played in my game. He was very active in my game as a town member, very active, and he also got elected. However, this game he has been fairly inactive and the posts he has made have generally been few and not very contributing.
Simply put, I expect more out of him as his performance the last time I watched him play town was much better than it is now.
Abenson + Show Spoiler +
The kid is posting nothing helpful, and is playing the exact same he was in the game with two mafia families that the kid was red in. Simply put, he is either a terrible player who can’t play without appearing scummy, or is mafia.
~opz~ + Show Spoiler +Kid is fishy as fuck. I don’t want to quote his posts in the archive thread, but just go read the ones he has, seriously. He starts off moderately helpful, seems like a good start to the game. Proceeds to then try and toss L under the bus, not very serious but still there. Now, the important part of a post to bring up On March 12 2010 02:44 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh, and Vivi for Mafia aligned bus driver. That's my guess for this game. Hide nested quote - On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote: If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia.
We can't afford medic protection on them. maybe bus driver....But we can't protect them. Protection is for the BG's... The town will be forced to play this without our "vets" that we love.
GG, L, Incog, BC. If any of you live without being mayor (one of you most certainly will live through atleast one night), I shall be greatly surprised.
Deadly format for cruelty, but face it everyone, we all must step up and go after the mafia. Even if they aren't here to help us. So, with that said, if the vets would like to post some ideas that we should follow to win with this format, please do!
First, he pins Vivi as the bus driver. He specifies mafia bus driver, however, concentrate on the role itself. I point this out for two reasons. The only reason someone would off vivi so early (the guy is an odd day 1 choice) is they figured I was giving him information, or he was blue. This FoS pointed at vivi seems odd given the game play. Next, he mentions that with this format, the town will most likely be forced to play without the “vet” players. And if any of us live day 1 he would be surprised. Keep in mind this line of thought. By L/myself/incog not dying (in this case more L as incog and I have bg protection) he can now come out and say the only way L wouldn’t take a hit is if he was mafia, or the like. The post feels like a placeholder to allow him to instantly jump on the three of us should any of us not die right away. After that post he again accuses vivi of being the bus driver, as well as L of being gf. This is the second time putting FoS on vivi (confirmed green via death), and now L. Both of these have not been followed by any sort of reasoning to it, but just seem to be “contributing” posts. He then has some random posts, one of which states that he should be getting checked by a DT. Why would he think this, and if he is green as he says he is, why would he want to be checked so quickly while in the same post claiming he will be afk potentially for a few days, or for a lot longer as he might get arrested. He could really have had a shitty life situation (possible), however, the fact he was claiming he was getting a DT to check him seems weird if he was vanishing for days, he wouldn’t want to be checked if he wasn’t going to be able to play for awhile. This is a general starter. There are a few others I have my eye on, but as I don’t have anything other than a general feeling without grounds, better not off trying to go anywhere with it. Yo, I got a few questions for you. I think some answers will help clear up a lot of confusion with the town right now, cause right now, the town's a shitstorm of inactivity. 1) Who do you want to lynch today? You got elected as mayor, you claimed (through one person or another) that you are the DT. I'm assuming you did not find a mafia with your check or you would have said so right? It's impossible for me to know by what you're doing right now. You voted for Abenson, you put Abenson in your "random list of suspects" (more on that later). So do you want the town to lynch Abenson? I have no idea what you think of things right now. Maybe you really want to lynch L cause you think he's scum? You should probably say something. This brings me to the next point: 2) Why are you being a crappy leader? You accepted your role as mayor, you even claimed (you said you were going to claim if vivi had not done for you) so you could get into office. There, it's done. Now do something about it! You haven't done much of anything since being elected, and hey if I do say so myself, you weren't doing much before elections either. Right now, L is doing a better job of being mayor than you are, he's actively voicing his opinions and arguing with people. That's good for town. You sitting in your mayoral chair whacking off waiting until your next DT check isn't helping the town. This is assuming you even are the DT, and hey guess what it looks kinda sketchy now. There is a point that needs to be addressed to the town. L claims he has a circle of 3(?) blues, BC said he claimed to people and has hinted he knows blues, Incog claims he knows a bunch of blues as well. There are more blues going around than there are probably in the game. If you all were really blue, why haven't you coordinated together? If all of you were legit, I'd expect this game to be near over for the mafia because you probably know over half the town is innocent. Why isn't this happening? Why are none of you telling us who to lynch (exception of L here). Somebody's full of shit with you three. At least one of you is lying about the information you know. Based on what you three have individually said, this game should be nearly over. Why are we still playing and why are we guessing on who to lynch today? BC I'd like to remind you of the game past (forgot which one off the top of my head) where you got elected mayor and couldn't control your town and Pyrry led the mafia to victory. That game you made it seem like you knew a bunch of blue roles, knew exactly what you were doing to lead the town to victory, and you didn't. I had to take over as pseudo mayor that game because everyone realized you had no information. Right now I'm starting to feel the same way (although I'll give you it's still early in the game). But if blues start dying and we fail to lynch mafia, I hope you're willing to be held accountable. Your mayor of this town. Do something about it. Finally you come out and post. Stop hiding away from the world so much. A) I am currently on a tossup between abenson and ~opz~. My current vote was placed purely in the off chance shit happened and I was away from my computer for the entire vote duration. Unlikely, but required regardless. As for L, he seems town sided, but I believe another day + a check on him will clear that up. B) I am doing very similar job that I do in every game. I garner info then post with it. You mention L is doing a better job, but most of the posts were defending my own lynch target, followed by him wanting BM to die. I gave my reason on the lynch kill, and as I haven't yet made up my own mind on who I want dead, its safer to not push at someone yet? My job this game is to clear innocents and narrow down the red. Any information from this that won't fuck the town over by handing a list of people to mafia will be handed to the town, simple as that. Just as if you were about to lynch someone I've cleared, I would stop it there. As for the game in question that you are referring to. Keep in mind that the mafia convinced 2 people to stack votes on me to off me, and that the mafia who screwed the entire town over, was someone I had been advocating to kill off from almost day 1. You stepping up to be pseudo mayor wasn't even because I wasn't trying, it was because due to circumstances involving L's death combined with one failed analysis on a player led to me discrediting myself. Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 09:42 Foolishness wrote: Not to mention, your "random list of suspects" and your "general feeling without grounds" is total bullshit. What does that even me? "Oh hey guys this is who I think we should lynch...but I actually have no idea or any information so just do whatever I'm sure it'll work out". That's honestly what it sounded like when I read your post.
And what do you mean "better not off trying to go anywhere with it"? If you honestly cared about the town winning, you would try to go somewhere with it. You would try to make these people speak up and defend themselves. You would stop these people from being inactive. Your post basically said "I think these people are suspicious....but it's cool if they don't say anything about it". Intuition isn't something you can just explain. Or I would just say x seems mafia because I sense he is, believe in the power. As I have stated earlier in this thread, the DT's job is to build the list of confirmed townies + find red. We all agreed the best spot for a DT was in an elected position. So I am playing exactly as I said I would. If you don't like it, well you knew exactly what you were getting based on my opinions of how the DT should play before I claimed. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan: The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies. If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle. If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies. first half of my candidacy post. As I feel confident on lynch targets, or as I find reds via checks, the more Centered I will be. However, as the DT, if I start randomly forcing lynches on people who flip green, I'll be offed.
I'm glad you responded.
The reason being is because you did not seem to have a lot of confidence with your accusation post up there. Like you are ducking behind a shield in case you are wrong. You as the mayor not having a lot of confidence in your thoughts/accusations puts me as the town in a really awkward situation in that I have no idea what to think of you anymore. You said it yourself in that previous game you discredited yourself. I don't want a repeat of that (even though the circumstances were different).
You failed to comment on a key point of my post. How many blues do you actually know or are in contact with? Yeah I know you don't want to answer that publicly and I can understand that but something is not right at the moment. You, L, and Incog all seem to say you each know a bunch of blues (and L even directly reported it in one of his posts). Let's outline the possibilities:
1) All three of BC, L, Incog are blue/green and are legit in their posting- If this was true then why is there no coordination among you guys? This would also mean you guys know that nearly half the town is innocent (unless you all know the exact same blue roles, which is incredibly unlikely). In that case, this should just be gg mafia right now since you know exactly who to lynch and check and we could potentially be out of here in a few more days pending vigi hits and such. Given that the three of you all seem to have separate agenda's, you all have different opinions on who to lynch, this possibility cannot be true.
2) All three of BC, L, Incog are blue/green but somebody is lying- If all three of you are on townside then the best possibility is that one or some of you are actually lying about the information you know. This actually seems like the most possible scenario right now considering how divided the town is. However when the truth is out someone's going to have to pay for it, especially if we don't start lynching mafia soon. This is only going to cause more trouble for the town in the long run unless we get lucky with our lynches.
3) Two of BC, L, Incog are legit, and one is a mafia- Does not actually seem likely because of the mafia hits last night. If one of you is mafia, and you really know blue roles, why did two seemingly useless greens die last night? I guess if one of you is mafia, then you're probably lying about the amount of blues you role, which is a fair assumption. But when that information gets public you're going to die fast, so it doesn't make much sense you would claim to know a bunch of blue roles if you were mafia and you don't. The two legit people could easily just rat you out and we'd probably kill whichever one of you was lying (consequently, that'd probably be the GF). Doesn't seem to make sense for one of you to be mafia at this stage.
4) Two or more of BC, L, Incog are mafia- Considering roles were randomized, and the current state of the town, does this really seem so farfetched?
People keep saying that this game is inactive, and certain people need to start posting. What about our elected officials? L didn't get in office and he's the only one around. BC has hardly said anything until now, and Incog is sitting in the shadows as well. Doesn't seem like we can call people out on being inactive when our own elected officials are mia half the time.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Right now I think Abenson is the best candidate to lynch.
Abenson is inactive just like he was in the other game where he was mafia. He would pop in to make a post from time to time, then disappear. Cliche mafia behavior. This game is no different. In the previous game as well, people were constantly calling him out in the thread, and he never responded, and that seems to be happening again this game.
The key point is that looking through his posts, I noticed that he was spamming one liners like good ol' Abenson usually does right up until after the game started. This really stood out since he was clearly active and posting and then disappeared not long after the game started.
He has also been making useless posts:
On March 11 2010 10:47 Abenson wrote: Reading the posts above, I have come to conclude that the town does indeed need a pro-town mayor/pardoner, whether they be blue or not. Therefore I propose that all the veterans make a few posts explaining their reasoning about how this game will work, and to also give the more inexperienced players (like me) someone to vote for.
Someone else already called him out on this (to which he did not respond). But honestly there's no reason to make this post, considering all the "veterans" definitely posted their game plan when they decided to run for office. Don't know what he was thinking but this post makes no sense. Outside of this it's hard to find a post he made that was longer than two lines.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 16 2010 10:10 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 09:38 Foolishness wrote: There is a point that needs to be addressed to the town. L claims he has a circle of 3(?) blues, BC said he claimed to people and has hinted he knows blues, Incog claims he knows a bunch of blues as well. There are more blues going around than there are probably in the game. If you all were really blue, why haven't you coordinated together? If all of you were legit, I'd expect this game to be near over for the mafia because you probably know over half the town is innocent. Why isn't this happening? Why are none of you telling us who to lynch (exception of L here). Somebody's full of shit with you three. At least one of you is lying about the information you know. Based on what you three have individually said, this game should be nearly over. Why are we still playing and why are we guessing on who to lynch today? I agree with this part 100%. It's highly likely at least one of the L, BC, or Incognito isn't speaking the truth.
I'm claimed somebody's paying attention. This is half the reason why I called out BC in the thread and demanded answers. Who ever was saying that Versatile and myself are suspicious for trying to start a riot is ridiculous. There's obviously something going on here that one of the three isn't telling us. Good news is though, BC came out and told us everything, and he's actually following the plan he outlined on day one (yeah I don't like it either, that's why I didn't vote for him). But unless he doesn't produce a mafia in the coming days there's no reason to question what he's doing. If he's playing the town he'll get found out sooner or later.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 16 2010 11:10 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 11:08 L wrote: To elaborate on what BC just said:
2 DTs seem to have checked the same target, which was bussed to a second target. Whether or not this is a fluke or someone's lying intensely is yet to be found. To once again avoid misinterpreting your genius. Does this mean you and BC are cooperating?
Obviously, that's why they're both advocating lynching the same people. -_-
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 16 2010 11:15 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 11:13 Foolishness wrote:On March 16 2010 11:10 Zona wrote:On March 16 2010 11:08 L wrote: To elaborate on what BC just said:
2 DTs seem to have checked the same target, which was bussed to a second target. Whether or not this is a fluke or someone's lying intensely is yet to be found. To once again avoid misinterpreting your genius. Does this mean you and BC are cooperating? Obviously, that's why they're both advocating lynching the same people. -_- L has been saying that some of us have been misinterpreting him. I want to make sure that everything he has to say is entirely clear for the town to judge.
I believe L has been saying people have been misinterpreting him because people are saying:
"Oh, L claimed this role" "nuh uh, L said he was this other role" "BC said that Jspazz said that BM said that Qatol said that Showtime said L is a jack!"
When in fact, L hasn't claimed a thing in the entire thread.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 17 2010 15:08 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 15:03 johnnyspazz wrote:the mafia wouldn't let me run if i was on their team. why not? i don't quite understand this reasoning Because I am a fuckup. Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 10:18 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 10:17 SugiuraMidori wrote:Foolish.. you always love to complain about bandwagons... are you perhaps against losing one of your red friends? There's a good reason why I love to complain about them. Surely you can see it my way no? I am against losing innocent townies. Come save me, Foolishness.
Unfortunately I'm about to lose a green friend, not a red one.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 18 2010 06:44 L wrote: There's no reason to protect incog at this point. There's no way to confirm him and his two bus shunts are used. He's the equivalent of a green, kinda. 100% of medic protection should be on BC unless we set up a driver. If I die, whatever, that speeds up our rape train a day.
Being frustrated isn't a reason to de-rail a town rape train. If you feel like you have nothing to do, go look at your number 1-3 suspects and go check how they act in prior games, then report your findings here.
Pretty sure Incog proved his two bus shunts in his post where he explained everything. At the very least he proved he used one. If he's mafia, why would he waste away using his drives all for the benefit of the town? If he's mafia, the only useful thing he can do now is vote (and possibly cause town chaos but that's very unlikely).
BM, if nothing you say will convince the town that you're green than there's definitely nothing I can say that will convince them either
At the very least, we have a coordinated town with two DT checks coming up (assuming they don't die) and a mad hatter with hopefully smart bombs placed (and who's hopefully not a GF). Even if BM turns up green there shouldn't be a problem wrapping things up in subsequent days. Although I'm sure going to have a field day defending myself if BM turns up red.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 18 2010 08:25 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 08:13 Qatol wrote:On March 18 2010 02:56 Versatile wrote: seriously, if you keep writing off some players as stupid or worthless, and don't bother to try to help them learn, the quality of these games will never improve. i've been here for three games and it's the same idiots being tricked by the same idiots and leading the town down the road to hell regardless of what anyone's role is in any given game.
I approve of this sentiment. Then stop watching games and start playing them.
If Qatol didn't have to play with you in games I'm sure he'd play everytime.
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