|
On February 16 2010 13:07 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:06 Mystlord wrote:
I don't think the plan would work since I highly doubt the mafia would waste a hit like that. Remember that the other mafia family has 3 hits and each of them are going to be aimed at a potential mafia. Why would one mafia family waste a hit so early in the game? What do we lose¿
What do you mean by what do we lose?
Since you're discussing the mafia perspective...
|
|
|
On February 16 2010 13:06 Mystlord wrote:
I don't think the plan would work since I highly doubt the mafia would waste a hit like that. Remember that the other mafia family has 3 hits and each of them are going to be aimed at a potential mafia. Why would one mafia family waste a hit so early in the game?
Also put yourself into this situation: mafia is going to gamble with theyr hits anyway. Im offering a fair gamble: i think redtooth is mafia so by killing me that mafia a)kills a townie b)forces the town to lynch redtooth.
|
On February 16 2010 13:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:07 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 13:06 Mystlord wrote:
I don't think the plan would work since I highly doubt the mafia would waste a hit like that. Remember that the other mafia family has 3 hits and each of them are going to be aimed at a potential mafia. Why would one mafia family waste a hit so early in the game? What do we lose¿ What do you mean by what do we lose? Since you're discussing the mafia perspective...
The town. I know that im town /and hell yeah if you are not really convinced at this point you are nuts/. What does the town lose. Even better: if i die any townie can come up with this in one or two days asking for self sacrifice to clear redtooth. Im very interested to read RTs reply.
|
On February 16 2010 13:03 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:54 789 wrote:
Malongo, your plan hinges on everyone going along with it and honestly participating. I mean say redtooth goes along with it ... why would a mafia family sacrifice a hit that may be blocked. Or say in the case that redtooth actually is a medic (yeah no, but let's just say) and BOTH mafia families hit you. It makes redtooth look like a lier. In a perfect world it is a good idea ... but it won't work in a practical application. A Supposing a mafia family suspects redtooth is mafia the will asap hit me to clear him. Its 3 votes + a protected role. They only lose a hit and prove redtooth, wich is useless because bg list is more likely infiltrated. Believe me the other family is liking his chops at this idea. B If hits stack¿ lol if hits stack i die and nothing else happens, redtooth isnt cleared and we have more gamble beetween families. Why wont work¿ i still dont see how can be bad for the town. Worst case scenario: mafia doesnt hit me and redtooth loses a protection that cant be directed to a town townie anyways. We have absolutely nothing to lose.
I still don't see why the mafia would be licking their chops to cooperate. If they wanted to get rid of him they could act like townies and get him lynched. Why would they take a path that potentially wastes a hit and could potentially help the town greatly by giving them a trusted person to organize behind. Sure they know who a medic is if they want to target him - but I would think at least one of the BGs is still town aligned and he'd be protected.
If they want to take him out there are other lower risk ways to do it and they wouldn't want to clear him.
|
On February 16 2010 12:41 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 16 2010 12:32 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway. I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player. So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia. Thoughts¿ Problem with this is if the declared target is in the same family as those that'll be targeting him - unless they're willing to sacrifice him. Ok. Then we force redtooth to protect a target from the town: me. As you see i cant not be in Redtooths family /if im mafia and so is him/ because that would be stupid. I cant be on the others family IM ASKING TO GET HIT and protected. What about that¿ if redtooth claims protection on me and he should be because that way he can prove himself then i will live. /unless there are stacked hits on me wish will be noted in the number of deaths/ If i die redtooth is mafia. THOUGHTS¿¿¿¿
There are many many flaws to this plan. HOWEVER I do believe it will work *IF* the mafia team that does not have Malongo or redtooth on their roster were to hit Malongo tonight, and none of the medics (aside from redtooth obviously) protects him!
Reason why:
Let's say
1. redtooth is MAFIA A and Malongo is TOWNIE
- Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. Malongo dies. We know that redtooth is not actually a medic and a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for both Mafia B and the town, bad for Mafia A
2. redtooth is a MEDIC and Malongo is MAFIA A
- Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. redtooth saves Malongo. Mafia B now knows that redtooth is actually a medic and NOT a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for Mafia B (Town remains ignorant as it has no way of knowing for certain that a hit was placed on Malongo.)
3. redtooth is MAFIA A and Malongo are MAFIA A
- Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. Malongo dies. We now know redtooth is not actually a medic and a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for both Mafia B and the town, bad for Mafia A
4. redtooth is a MEDIC and Malongo is TOWNIE
- Mafia A hits Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. redtooth saves Malongo. But because he got 2 hits does he die???
Ok, so DISREGARDING SCENERIO 4 because I'm unsure what happens in that case, if you are on a mafia team and redtooth is NOT on your roster... placing a hit on Malongo will benefit you regardless of whether he dies/does not die. (you'll have info on whether the mayor is on the opposite mafia team or is an actual medic.) and 2/3 of the proposed scenarios will benefit the town as well.
Think about it mafia people ;D
On a sidenote, in the case of scenerio 4, let's say malongo were to be saved despite having 2 hits (1 from each mafia team). then it really wouldn't matter since both mafia teams will still be on equal ground since they both used a hit on malongo.
|
On February 16 2010 13:12 789 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:03 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 12:54 789 wrote:
Malongo, your plan hinges on everyone going along with it and honestly participating. I mean say redtooth goes along with it ... why would a mafia family sacrifice a hit that may be blocked. Or say in the case that redtooth actually is a medic (yeah no, but let's just say) and BOTH mafia families hit you. It makes redtooth look like a lier. In a perfect world it is a good idea ... but it won't work in a practical application. A Supposing a mafia family suspects redtooth is mafia the will asap hit me to clear him. Its 3 votes + a protected role. They only lose a hit and prove redtooth, wich is useless because bg list is more likely infiltrated. Believe me the other family is liking his chops at this idea. B If hits stack¿ lol if hits stack i die and nothing else happens, redtooth isnt cleared and we have more gamble beetween families. Why wont work¿ i still dont see how can be bad for the town. Worst case scenario: mafia doesnt hit me and redtooth loses a protection that cant be directed to a town townie anyways. We have absolutely nothing to lose. I still don't see why the mafia would be licking their chops to cooperate. If they wanted to get rid of him they could act like townies and get him lynched. Why would they take a path that potentially wastes a hit and could potentially help the town greatly by giving them a trusted person to organize behind. Sure they know who a medic is if they want to target him - but I would think at least one of the BGs is still town aligned and he'd be protected. If they want to take him out there are other lower risk ways to do it and they wouldn't want to clear him.
Mafia has to kill the other mafia to win. Having a guy that is likely to be part of one of the mafias in the mayor spot is clearly a big disadvantage to start with. Sure RT *may* prove himself. Then what¿ trusted BG list¿ he asks all the blues to pm him¿ he asks everyplayer to pm him his role¿ with 20 mafia in the game¿ Think about that for a minute.
|
Cheating includes (but is not limited to) the following and will get you banned from future games:
...
6. Posting any PM you receive from a host.
|
On February 16 2010 13:03 meeple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:02 789 wrote:
Yeah, it wouldn't work. There is nothing we would learn from it no matter what happened. If the person dies - either redtooth lied and didn't protect or he actually did and there was a double hit. If the person lives it could have either been redtooth preventing a hit or the mafia just not cooperating. Would we be able to tell if it was a double hit by the way the night post is written up? This is more a question for the mods
No comment.
|
So redtooth i need you to agree on this. If you dont please state clearly why.
And with all honesty i dont think you can have a good target to protect this night anyways.
Last note because im heading bed: Any townie can use this ability in the future nights to prove RT.
|
On February 16 2010 13:17 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:12 789 wrote:On February 16 2010 13:03 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 12:54 789 wrote:
Malongo, your plan hinges on everyone going along with it and honestly participating. I mean say redtooth goes along with it ... why would a mafia family sacrifice a hit that may be blocked. Or say in the case that redtooth actually is a medic (yeah no, but let's just say) and BOTH mafia families hit you. It makes redtooth look like a lier. In a perfect world it is a good idea ... but it won't work in a practical application. A Supposing a mafia family suspects redtooth is mafia the will asap hit me to clear him. Its 3 votes + a protected role. They only lose a hit and prove redtooth, wich is useless because bg list is more likely infiltrated. Believe me the other family is liking his chops at this idea. B If hits stack¿ lol if hits stack i die and nothing else happens, redtooth isnt cleared and we have more gamble beetween families. Why wont work¿ i still dont see how can be bad for the town. Worst case scenario: mafia doesnt hit me and redtooth loses a protection that cant be directed to a town townie anyways. We have absolutely nothing to lose. I still don't see why the mafia would be licking their chops to cooperate. If they wanted to get rid of him they could act like townies and get him lynched. Why would they take a path that potentially wastes a hit and could potentially help the town greatly by giving them a trusted person to organize behind. Sure they know who a medic is if they want to target him - but I would think at least one of the BGs is still town aligned and he'd be protected. If they want to take him out there are other lower risk ways to do it and they wouldn't want to clear him. Mafia has to kill the other mafia to win. Having a guy that is likely to be part of one of the mafias in the mayor spot is clearly a big disadvantage to start with. Sure RT *may* prove himself. Then what¿ trusted BG list¿ he asks all the blues to pm him¿ he asks everyplayer to pm him his role¿ with 20 mafia in the game¿ Think about that for a minute.
You bypassed my main point. Why would one of the mafia families risk a hit or helping the town when they could attempt a lynch play to take down redtooth.
|
On February 16 2010 13:16 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:41 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 16 2010 12:32 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway. I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player. So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia. Thoughts¿ Problem with this is if the declared target is in the same family as those that'll be targeting him - unless they're willing to sacrifice him. Ok. Then we force redtooth to protect a target from the town: me. As you see i cant not be in Redtooths family /if im mafia and so is him/ because that would be stupid. I cant be on the others family IM ASKING TO GET HIT and protected. What about that¿ if redtooth claims protection on me and he should be because that way he can prove himself then i will live. /unless there are stacked hits on me wish will be noted in the number of deaths/ If i die redtooth is mafia. THOUGHTS¿¿¿¿ There are many many flaws to this plan. HOWEVER I do believe it will work *IF* the mafia team that does not have Malongo or redtooth on their roster were to hit Malongo tonight, and none of the medics (aside from redtooth obviously) protects him! Reason why: Let's say 1. redtooth is MAFIA A and Malongo is TOWNIE - Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. Malongo dies. We know that redtooth is not actually a medic and a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for both Mafia B and the town, bad for Mafia A 2. redtooth is a MEDIC and Malongo is MAFIA A - Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. redtooth saves Malongo. Mafia B now knows that redtooth is actually a medic and NOT a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for Mafia B (Town remains ignorant as it has no way of knowing for certain that a hit was placed on Malongo.) 3. redtooth is MAFIA A and Malongo are MAFIA A - Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. Malongo dies. We now know redtooth is not actually a medic and a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for both Mafia B and the town, bad for Mafia A 4. redtooth is a MEDIC and Malongo is TOWNIE - Mafia A hits Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. redtooth saves Malongo. But because he got 2 hits does he die??? Ok, so DISREGARDING SCENERIO 4 because I'm unsure what happens in that case, if you are on a mafia team and redtooth is NOT on your roster... placing a hit on Malongo will benefit you regardless of whether he dies/does not die. (you'll have info on whether the mayor is on the opposite mafia team or is an actual medic.) and 2/3 of the proposed scenarios will benefit the town as well. Think about it mafia people ;D On a sidenote, in the case of scenerio 4, let's say malongo were to be saved despite having 2 hits (1 from each mafia team). then it really wouldn't matter since both mafia teams will still be on equal ground since they both used a hit on malongo.
5/6. Redtooth and Malongo are medic/townie, and either 1 mafia hits malongo, or neither mafia do.
|
actually i hit post without thinking the whole thing through thoroughly. after more thought there are a lot of other things to take into account that i didn't consider >_<. so scratch my post above.
|
On February 16 2010 13:16 madnessman wrote:
- Mafia A hits Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. redtooth saves Malongo. But because he got 2 hits does he die???
Yes. 2 hits vs 1 extra night life = dead player. It doesn't matter if the 2 hits come from different sources.
|
On February 16 2010 13:18 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +Cheating includes (but is not limited to) the following and will get you banned from future games:
...
6. Posting any PM you receive from a host.
I had to counter post after he posted. I am innocent.
Also, please don't ask people to pardon people who haven't been picked as lynch targets :/.
|
I posted a poll in the voting thread regarding malongo's plan, I think we should have an informal poll, and since its anonymous maybe we can get some honest opinions
|
On February 16 2010 13:23 789 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:17 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 13:12 789 wrote:On February 16 2010 13:03 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 12:54 789 wrote:
Malongo, your plan hinges on everyone going along with it and honestly participating. I mean say redtooth goes along with it ... why would a mafia family sacrifice a hit that may be blocked. Or say in the case that redtooth actually is a medic (yeah no, but let's just say) and BOTH mafia families hit you. It makes redtooth look like a lier. In a perfect world it is a good idea ... but it won't work in a practical application. A Supposing a mafia family suspects redtooth is mafia the will asap hit me to clear him. Its 3 votes + a protected role. They only lose a hit and prove redtooth, wich is useless because bg list is more likely infiltrated. Believe me the other family is liking his chops at this idea. B If hits stack¿ lol if hits stack i die and nothing else happens, redtooth isnt cleared and we have more gamble beetween families. Why wont work¿ i still dont see how can be bad for the town. Worst case scenario: mafia doesnt hit me and redtooth loses a protection that cant be directed to a town townie anyways. We have absolutely nothing to lose. I still don't see why the mafia would be licking their chops to cooperate. If they wanted to get rid of him they could act like townies and get him lynched. Why would they take a path that potentially wastes a hit and could potentially help the town greatly by giving them a trusted person to organize behind. Sure they know who a medic is if they want to target him - but I would think at least one of the BGs is still town aligned and he'd be protected. If they want to take him out there are other lower risk ways to do it and they wouldn't want to clear him. Mafia has to kill the other mafia to win. Having a guy that is likely to be part of one of the mafias in the mayor spot is clearly a big disadvantage to start with. Sure RT *may* prove himself. Then what¿ trusted BG list¿ he asks all the blues to pm him¿ he asks everyplayer to pm him his role¿ with 20 mafia in the game¿ Think about that for a minute. You bypassed my main point. Why would one of the mafia families risk a hit or helping the town when they could attempt a lynch play to take down redtooth.
Because the point isn't to lynch redtooth. Redtooth flipping red/blue will give both the town AND the mafia some information - information they wouldn't be able to get by slogging through another 48 hours of day posts attempting to convince people otherwise.
|
I agree strongly on this @incognito poll allowed¿
|
Okay, here is the plan.
1. medics on me of course, because I'm special
2. godfathers disguised as medic should protect me as well.
3. Mafia hit the other mafia so that if they go for me, you will be in the lead.
4. Why would you waste any hits on me?
5. Mad hatters, you guys shouldn't put bombs on me - It would kill our medics.
6. To the mafia team I sided with, please send me your hit list.
7. redtooth please give me the bodyguard information, because I'm special.
8. L please pardon my annoying behavior.
9, That is all.
|
On February 16 2010 13:24 Iaaan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:16 madnessman wrote:On February 16 2010 12:41 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 16 2010 12:32 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway. I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player. So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia. Thoughts¿ Problem with this is if the declared target is in the same family as those that'll be targeting him - unless they're willing to sacrifice him. Ok. Then we force redtooth to protect a target from the town: me. As you see i cant not be in Redtooths family /if im mafia and so is him/ because that would be stupid. I cant be on the others family IM ASKING TO GET HIT and protected. What about that¿ if redtooth claims protection on me and he should be because that way he can prove himself then i will live. /unless there are stacked hits on me wish will be noted in the number of deaths/ If i die redtooth is mafia. THOUGHTS¿¿¿¿ There are many many flaws to this plan. HOWEVER I do believe it will work *IF* the mafia team that does not have Malongo or redtooth on their roster were to hit Malongo tonight, and none of the medics (aside from redtooth obviously) protects him! Reason why: Let's say 1. redtooth is MAFIA A and Malongo is TOWNIE - Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. Malongo dies. We know that redtooth is not actually a medic and a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for both Mafia B and the town, bad for Mafia A 2. redtooth is a MEDIC and Malongo is MAFIA A - Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. redtooth saves Malongo. Mafia B now knows that redtooth is actually a medic and NOT a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for Mafia B (Town remains ignorant as it has no way of knowing for certain that a hit was placed on Malongo.) 3. redtooth is MAFIA A and Malongo are MAFIA A - Mafia A doesn't hit Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. Malongo dies. We now know redtooth is not actually a medic and a member of Mafia A! -> this info = good for both Mafia B and the town, bad for Mafia A 4. redtooth is a MEDIC and Malongo is TOWNIE - Mafia A hits Malongo. Mafia B hits Malongo. redtooth saves Malongo. But because he got 2 hits does he die??? Ok, so DISREGARDING SCENERIO 4 because I'm unsure what happens in that case, if you are on a mafia team and redtooth is NOT on your roster... placing a hit on Malongo will benefit you regardless of whether he dies/does not die. (you'll have info on whether the mayor is on the opposite mafia team or is an actual medic.) and 2/3 of the proposed scenarios will benefit the town as well. Think about it mafia people ;D On a sidenote, in the case of scenerio 4, let's say malongo were to be saved despite having 2 hits (1 from each mafia team). then it really wouldn't matter since both mafia teams will still be on equal ground since they both used a hit on malongo. 5/6. Redtooth and Malongo are medic/townie, and either 1 mafia hits malongo, or neither mafia do.
5/6 i keep saying this if no mafia hits this poor soul then town loses next to nothing. Think that if RT is nonmafia he still doesnt have good saves for the night.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
