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@madnessman: If going with your post let's assume redtooth is Mafia:
Go back to when he claimed Medic. I switched my vote off. Then I switch back on, with Emp and BM both voting for him also. With EMP flipping green it's not 100% certain that it was a Mafia split that tipped him over. If that's the case that means looking at the entire vote list, more accurately Bill Murray who was the deciding vote would "solve" your scenario. It would actually look more suspicious if Redtooth and BM had loose ties, aka barely talking to each other in the thread as that's surely a common mafia tell when none of them are in danger.
However, I'm more interested in the early voters. With 2 Mafia families neither can wait around for swing votes unless they felt their candidates were strong enough to get those votes early on their own.
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Interesting Fulgrim, I didn't know we had vigilantes in this game.
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On February 16 2010 10:51 Ace wrote:
Zato what have YOU done to help the town? Tell me please. Besides saying you're tired of reading so and so's posts and that lurkers are suspicious. My mere presence in the game generates 10x more discussion and analysis than you could have ever provided.
They see me rollin!
I've helped establish a proper strategy for the Town to follow.
I've called out those who are most detrimental to the Town- those who make people stop wanting to read the thread and contribute, and therefore make it easier for mafia to lurk undetected.
I've explained why Qatol's plan for the mayor to reveal the bodyguard list to whoever claims to be a DT and asks for it is a bad idea.
I'm actively trying to get the Town to suffer fewer deaths on night 1.
It's not an impressive list, I'll admit. But come now, you don't really care about what I'm doing. You just want to change the topic. Again. Weasel out of having to lift a goddamn finger for the town. Again.
I can't know for sure if you really are mafia, Ace. But I sure damn suspect you are, by now. Prove me wrong, please. Start playing like someone who gives a damn for the Town.
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On February 16 2010 11:06 Ace wrote:
Interesting Fulgrim, I didn't know we had vigilantes in this game.
Haha, no we don't, just went back and checked. Thanks =)
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On February 16 2010 11:04 Ace wrote:
@madnessman: If going with your post let's assume redtooth is Mafia:
Go back to when he claimed Medic. I switched my vote off. Then I switch back on, with Emp and BM both voting for him also. With EMP flipping green it's not 100% certain that it was a Mafia split that tipped him over. If that's the case that means looking at the entire vote list, more accurately Bill Murray who was the deciding vote would "solve" your scenario. It would actually look more suspicious if Redtooth and BM had loose ties, aka barely talking to each other in the thread as that's surely a common mafia tell when none of them are in danger.
However, I'm more interested in the early voters. With 2 Mafia families neither can wait around for swing votes unless they felt their candidates were strong enough to get those votes early on their own.
Good point re: emp flipping green. Funny how he votes for redtooth though knowing that redtooth will lynch him. Could be in response to L's hostile pm's to him perhaps? lol. Either way, the vote count for winning positions in this election is so low that imo it would definitely be worthwhile to evaluate votes somehow...using your proclaimed "behavioral analysis" haha.
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On February 16 2010 11:07 Zato-1 wrote:
I've explained why Qatol's plan for the mayor to reveal the bodyguard list to whoever claims to be a DT and asks for it is a bad idea.
Qatol has had no such plan! (I'm not playing in this game. I just jump in to clarify rules questions because Incog is going to wind up asking me them anyways and I might as well speed up the process.)
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On February 16 2010 11:18 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 11:07 Zato-1 wrote:
I've explained why Qatol's plan for the mayor to reveal the bodyguard list to whoever claims to be a DT and asks for it is a bad idea.
Qatol has had no such plan! (I'm not playing in this game. I just jump in to clarify rules questions because Incog is going to wind up asking me them anyways and I might as well speed up the process.)
My bad, it was actually Caller.
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I don't see why people are being so analytical and stressful at this point, other than that's the fun of playing mafia.
If either L or Redtooth (or both) are mafia, then they'll help us catch the other family.
Even assuming they can hit the other family with incredible accuracy (3KP plus town lynches) there will still be two members of the other family left after night 3. At that point the town can step in and help protect the last two and the game will continue from there.
So everyone please stop worrying about nuking one of the two families. Even in the worst case scenerio the town will still have a fighting chance.
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"decafchicken- (he's lurking just like he did last game when he was godfather, also voted for redtooth with little reason)"
This is so true.
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Fulgrim, quality posts take time and effort to construct. I'm not as fast of a typist or as streamlined of a thinker as some of these other people are, so I haven't been able to type out something that's significant and relevant when we're going as fast as 20 pages a day. On top of that, most of our vets are doing the same thing they've been doing for the past several games (i.e. accusing each other), so I find myself unable to participate in such discussions. As for clue analysis, I'm of the opinion that the Day 1 clues weren't any stronger or weaker than previous games... and so having learned my lesson from last game I wasn't going to buy into it as strongly as I did this game.
Zato, in reference to this post:
Imagine that I'm a mafia member from the Gambino family. I know that neither the mayor or the pardoner are from my ranks, and we have no infiltrated bodyguards. Since my family's goal is to kill all members of the Sumiyoshi family, this includes potentially killing the mayor / pardoner, because there's a good chance at least one of them is from the other family. Because they will be immune to hits due to bodyguards, getting the list of bodyguards will be quite valuable and possibly well worth the trade.
I think there's a problem with this line of thinking. The mafia (S) are going to have to spend 4 KP to get themselves rid of the bodyguards before they can get rid of the officials... but that's going to take two nights of potentially wasted KP while the other family is free to strike; or one night if the other mafia decides to substitute their two guys. I *doubt* that the (G) who are in control of the office will want to substitute any guys, because it only makes them more vulnerable if such a list is leaked.
If the (S) decides to substitute and while the Mayor is (G), then it will obviously make the Mayor/Pardoner more vulnerable to attack after the two town BGs have been killed or lynched, though this would be suspicious for the (S)-aligned BGs as well after two of their comrades have died. If such a substitution is made, then likely we won't be seeing any BGs die until later in the game... but then, it's still possible to find a mafia.
I think the BG list should be made public. The DTs can check them, and the mafia can choose to waste their KP on them, if they so choose. Killing 2-4 people just to get to 1 seems awfully inefficient.
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On February 16 2010 09:27 L wrote:
And that's why I wanted to kill Ace instead. THIS IS BULLSHIT. I HAD A PM FROM INCOGNITO ASKING IF I WAS PARDONER WOULD I WANT O PARDON EMP. LOL INCONSISTENCIES L. WOULD YOU LIKE TO EXPLAIN?
and i went to sleep thinking i wouldn't be elected at all. instead i got a PM titled "Mr Mayor" from incognito. what. the. fuck.
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lol... congrats. Any thoughts on the greenness of Emp?
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On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway.
I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player.
So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia.
Thoughts¿
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What do you think about publicly releasing the BG list?
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On February 16 2010 12:30 meeple wrote:
lol... congrats. Any thoughts on the greenness of Emp? just caught up and L is being very very very odd. here's the exchange between me and incognito:
kk
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Original Message:
nope haha.
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Original Message:
Ok do you care to pardon if mayor lynches Empyrean?
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Original Message:
sorry for late PM. don't think i'll be winning but just in case i would like to lynch empyrean.
and guy's i've been playing very very bad this game. like very very bad. like worst player in game bad. like worse than BM bad. partly due to sleep deprivation and partly due to other crap. i've taken a much needed nap and i'll try to straighten up my act.
and that role claim was retarded. and still don't know what the fuck happened.
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shoot.. on emp... i wish L had released those PMs earlier but what the fuck he's playing terribly too. let me get a bearing on things before i actually start putting out analysis. until then, i think emp being green shows...
DAY ONE CLUE ANALYSIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.
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On February 16 2010 12:32 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway. I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player. So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia. Thoughts¿
Problem with this is if the declared target is in the same family as those that'll be targeting him - unless they're willing to sacrifice him.
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On February 16 2010 12:36 redtooth wrote:
shoot.. on emp... i wish L had released those PMs earlier but what the fuck he's playing terribly too. let me get a bearing on things before i actually start putting out analysis. until then, i think emp being green shows...
DAY ONE CLUE ANALYSIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.
You are actually not helping to clear your image.
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On February 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:32 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway. I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player. So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia. Thoughts¿ Problem with this is if the declared target is in the same family as those that'll be targeting him - unless they're willing to sacrifice him.
Ok. Then we force redtooth to protect a target from the town: me. As you see i cant not be in Redtooths family /if im mafia and so is him/ because that would be stupid. I cant be on the others family IM ASKING TO GET HIT and protected. What about that¿ if redtooth claims protection on me and he should be because that way he can prove himself then i will live. /unless there are stacked hits on me wish will be noted in the number of deaths/ If i die redtooth is mafia.
THOUGHTS¿¿¿¿
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EPT
